[HN Gopher] Mushrooms: Next big thing in environmentally-friendl...
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Mushrooms: Next big thing in environmentally-friendly packaging,
construction?
Author : DocFeind
Score : 184 points
Date : 2022-03-04 16:43 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.nasdaq.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.nasdaq.com)
| DonHopkins wrote:
| Crime Pays But Botany Doesn't:
|
| The Ethnomycology of Ugly Landscaping:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHRgY8fZNv4
|
| Late Night at the Mushroom Lab:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJVXAALRfRo
| givemeethekeys wrote:
| Some quick searching indicates that, unlike what the article
| suggests, we can compost cardboard at home.
| solomonb wrote:
| It is in fact trivial to compost cardboard at home! I consider
| cardboard a valuable resource around the garden and use it for
| a variety of soil building related applications.
| solomonb wrote:
| You have to grow the fungi on some organic material such as
| sawdust using a ton of energy and disposable plastics to
| sterilize and culture the mycelium. Why not simply use the
| sawdust or whatever as a soft packing material on its own?
| wy35 wrote:
| Have you ever felt mycelium? Mycelium is much softer than loose
| sawdust. It's very bouncy and porous.
|
| There's exceptions, of course. Reishi mycelium is extremely
| hard. A student once created a canoe out of Reishi mycelium and
| successfully paddled it around. Hobbyists who grow Reishi at
| home often complain how it is nearly impossible to scoop Reishi
| mycelium out of the jars they grow in. But I digress, the vast
| majority of species have soft mycelium.
| hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
| In all of the use cases where I have seen mushroom packaging
| being called for, a traditional green packaging could have been
| used instead. Recycled paper is a very versatile material and
| is very easy to work with.
|
| A wide variety of packaging can be made from cardboard &
| cardstock with a simple steel rule die. If custom shapes are
| needed, then compressed fiber like fast-food drink trays are an
| option. There are starch-based packing peanuts that can replace
| polystyrene peanuts. There's a lot more room for innovation
| beyond what we already have too, I think Amazon's paper mailers
| are a good example.
| solomonb wrote:
| I'm with you 100% on this. I actually cultivate gourmet
| mushrooms as a hobby (started about 15 years ago when I took
| a course in university) and am a big fan of mycology and the
| importance of fungi ecologically, nutritionally, and
| medicinally.
|
| However, there are, IMO, currently significant environmental
| downsides to indoor mushroom cultivation. Mushrooms are
| having a "moment" and there is a gold rush to throw them at
| everything under the sun.
| meristohm wrote:
| While this is cool, and I far prefer materials I can put in the
| compost pile over those bound for Trash Mountain, Incinerator, or
| Recycling Operation, the better action is to decrease demand by
| getting by with less, collectively. I'm not appealing to
| individuals to change their behavior, but to regulatory agencies
| so there's a sense of fairness.
| malleefowl wrote:
| According to the Mushroom Packaging FAQ, it's home compostable
| wy35 wrote:
| Mushroom mycelium is organic material, so it is compostable.
| Why do you think it wouldn't be?
|
| In fact, mycelium composts faster since it contains more
| nutrients than cardboard. Leftover mycelium is nutritious
| enough to be used as fertilizer for growing other crops.
| lvs wrote:
| > If cement manufacturing alone were a country, it would be the
| third-largest emitter of CO2 on the planet. Since mushrooms are
| relatively easy to feed, can be grown anywhere, and are appealing
| to increasingly environmentally aware consumers, we expect to see
| significant growth in mushroom tech solutions in building
| materials.
|
| Mushrooms are not plants. They don't photosynthesize and fix
| carbon dioxide from the air. Growing mushrooms is still carbon
| positive. It's important to understand that this is an organism
| that respires, so these generic claims about a carbon benefit
| need much more analysis to understand whether there is in fact a
| benefit at scale.
| BizarroLand wrote:
| By themselves they may not remove carbon from the air but they
| do sequester carbon by consuming carbon stores and converting
| them into different products.
|
| You could, in theory, make a wolffia farm (Wolffia being the
| fastest growing plant on the planet and very carbon hungry to
| boot) and feed the wolffia to mushrooms to convert them into
| building, clothing, and packing materials and thus create a
| cycle of utilitarian carbon sequestration
|
| https://www.cshl.edu/how-to-bury-carbon-let-plants-do-the-di...
|
| https://cleantechnica.com/2013/04/04/mushrooms-could-be-key-...
| revscat wrote:
| > One of the market leaders in mycelium pack-tech is Ecovate
| Design, based in New York, which closed a $60 million round of
| funding last year. One of the company's products is Mushroom(r)
| Packaging, which is made with just hemp hurd, a byproduct of the
| fiber hemp industry, and mycelium to form a solid composite form
| that is light, strong, fire, and water-resistant.
|
| This is all well and good, but how do they manage to have a
| trademark on the word "mushroom"?
| gamblor956 wrote:
| Because mushrooms are traditionally food, and not packaging, so
| the "trade" mark is relevant and claimable with respect to
| packing materials.
|
| They would have difficulty enforcing the trademark against
| other uses of mushroom, and attempts to do so could result in
| their trademark being voided on breadth grounds.
| [deleted]
| giantg2 wrote:
| I have a similar thought. Just to be clear though, it's a Brand
| and not a Trademark. I think brands do not have the restriction
| of being original since it's just the name you want to be
| identified by. But I could be missing something.
| ijlx wrote:
| (r) is the symbol for "registered trademark" though?
| giantg2 wrote:
| True. I guess a brand is just a subset of a trademark with
| the only additional requirement that it be made of words
| and not symbols.
|
| And it seems that because the packaging is the mycelium and
| not actually mushrooms, that they can use "Mushroom".
| Interesting.
|
| https://secureyourtrademark.com/can-you-trademark/common-
| wor...
| dymk wrote:
| Likely the same way that Apple holds their name
| CameronNemo wrote:
| But in that case the computers are not literally made of
| apples.
| iratewizard wrote:
| Source?
| hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
| It's a neat idea but also an impractical, unrealistic one. This
| sort of packaging can't be produced quickly like current green
| alternatives like compressed fiber. A lot of space is needed to
| let the packaging grow.
|
| Just grow mushrooms for food and make packaging from other green
| materials.
| elldoubleyew wrote:
| Unrelated to the article but why do modern browsers still allow
| the native back button functionality to be prevented like this?
|
| When I tried to go back from this page it presented me with
| "articles to check before you go" which is infuriating.
| dang wrote:
| " _Please don 't complain about tangential annoyances--things
| like article or website formats, name collisions, or back-
| button breakage. They're too common to be interesting._"
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
| slig wrote:
| They managed to make something more infuriating than the
| "before you go" exit intention modal.
| dylan604 wrote:
| SPAs. They allowed history manipulation to allow state updating
| via URL without triggering a page reload.
|
| Design a thing for a purpose, people will use that thing for a
| different purpose. Those new purposes are not always benign.
| rfreytag wrote:
| For TOR users: https://archive.ph/9fEMt
| giantg2 wrote:
| You can try this at home, sort of. It will yield tasty mushrooms
| but will be too heavy to use for shipping. You can grow mushrooms
| on substrate in bags. After inoculation you can form the
| substrate (mostly wet sawdust) into different shapes within the
| bag.
|
| Or you can buy them pre-made in blocks if you want to skip
| inoculation, sterilization, etc
| https://www.woodlandjewel.com/shop
| belval wrote:
| Pre-made are pretty cool, but I'd be wary of DIY-ing mushroom
| cultures. There are several YouTube channels dedicated to this
| and they explain all the contingency that they use to prevent
| contamination and it's surprisingly non-trivial.
| cwkoss wrote:
| Yep, all of my amateur gourmet mushroom growing attempts have
| resulted in contamination sooner or later. The good attempts
| had several flushes before mold set in, the bad attempts
| created such foul odors they went straight into the compost
| (or garbage for the most offensive result)
|
| Seems like creating an environment that certain funguses like
| but others don't is pretty tricky, and mostly relies on
| giving your chosen fungus a head start unless you can
| maintain perfect sterility.
| monetus wrote:
| Flow hoods for the win! You probably know that, but it
| should be said in case someone reading does not. If you
| can't buy one, diy a decent one, then keep the air in your
| workroom as stagnant as possible and cross your fingers.
| giantg2 wrote:
| The problem with flow hoods is that most people don't
| want to, or can't, leave them on indefinitely. Once
| theyre off, the air will carry contaminates to the clean
| side. That's basically what I realized after a DIY using
| setup that looks like an open front glovebox with a HEPA
| filter blowing air through it.
| cwkoss wrote:
| Yeah, I did a janky cardboard box and saran wrap glovebox
| when I tried to do my own innoculation... was a PITA to
| use, and contamination from that batch was worse than
| when I just went into a room with still air and crossed
| my fingers.
|
| (didnt have HEPA filtered air blowing, that sounds like a
| good idea)
| wy35 wrote:
| A big plastic tub with two arm holes cut out would be a
| much better solution.
|
| And I hope by "glovebox" you mean a still-air box,
| because gloves attached to the box actually increase the
| contamination rate due to the box sucking in air when you
| move your hands.
| cwkoss wrote:
| yep, still air box is the correct term I think. It was a
| cardboard box with two armholes cut, and saran wrap
| stretched over the top.
|
| Put all my equipment inside, stuck my arms in to more or
| less plug the holes, then sprayed a bunch of rubbing
| alcohol all over the inside, then got to work. The
| ergonomics were horrible, my back got tired, and I'm
| pretty sure my arms didn't plug the holes very well and I
| assume they effectively were pumping air through the
| system by the end of it as I got sloppier.
|
| Definitely will do something better on any future
| attempts, haha
| giantg2 wrote:
| "The good attempts had several flushes before mold set in,
| "
|
| Many of the commercial kits will grow mold after a few
| flushes too. Many will only guarantee a first flush. One
| trick I've heard of is leaving the block in an area with a
| lot of freash air movement after each flush, even placing
| them outside.
| cwkoss wrote:
| Commercial shiitake kit got mold on second flush, so I
| buried it in a raised bed. Nothing happened for a couple
| weeks, so I stopped checking it regularly, but then found
| a HUGE (unfortunately old) mushroom (and a few normal
| sized ones) growing from that spot about a month later. I
| think burying after first flush might be the best way to
| go - soil manages moisture and gas exchange needs pretty
| well already.
|
| Excited to try growing stropharia wine caps soon! PNW is
| great climate for having a bunch of wood chips on top of
| garden beds anyways :D
| giantg2 wrote:
| True. If going the outdoor route, shiitake logs can be a
| good option too. Depends on how much space one has and
| the options for sourcing the logs.
| giantg2 wrote:
| You can "clone" some mushrooms pretty easily. Oyster
| mushrooms and shiitake tend to be ageessive enough to out
| compete minor contamination (depends on where you live as to
| what contams are around). Make multiple slides. Pick the
| clean ones to move to grain spawn. One or two dishes in a
| quart jar of grain spawn. Don't expand too quickly/far - look
| for inoculation rates over 10% of the substrate mass when
| moving to fruiting substrate.
|
| That said, just a dead air box/bag/room with lysol aerosol
| disinfectant (ethanol) for the trapped air and 70% isopropyl
| alcohol for surfaces is fairly effective. I'd be careful with
| fumes. I have a basic respirator like a 3M 5xxx or something.
|
| I also tried a combination flowhood/glove box type thing. It
| works well if you have a new filter or leave it on.
| Otherwise, I think contamination just gets blown off of the
| filter once you do turn it on again.
|
| I didn't mean for it to even go this deep. You don't need to
| actually culture the mushroom from scratch. You can buy
| syringes with liquid culture. Then just squirt it through the
| bag with sterilized grain spawn (pressure cooker can
| sterilize). Then transfers to the fruiting substrate can be
| done in a moderately cleaned room without any special devices
| using the aerosol and wipe alcohol with inoculation 10-20%.
| This is surprising effective, even for contamination prone
| stuff like lions mane (which I can never seem to culture from
| spores myself).
| danans wrote:
| Ecovative has a spinoff (https://myforestfoods.com/) that makes a
| mushroom based "bacon" that I'd like to try. Last I heard they
| were only selling it at a few stores in upstate New York. Anyone
| tried it?
| steveaux wrote:
| I'm glad to see work being done on packaging alternatives,
| especially biodegradable/compostable solutions. However I have
| one issue with using mushrooms: these life forms are so
| remarkable and so valuable for nutritional and medicinal purposes
| that the time and energy spent cultivating them just for
| packaging material is a terrific waste of resources in itself.
| Search "medicinal mushrooms" or "fantastic fungi" to gain an
| understanding of the extraordinary nutritive potency and
| medicinal potential of mycelial crops. Perhaps a symbiosis
| between mushroom growers and processers could be worked out,
| whereby nutrients and medicines are first extracted and
| concentrated, and the 'drosses' or fibrous remains are then
| processed into packing and construction materials. In other
| words, if you're taking the trouble to grow mushrooms, maximize
| your resource and production capabilities. The same sort of thing
| could be done with cannabis cultivars, could it not? I'm looking
| toward a future of zero waste, of all materials and energy
| generation.
| 0x0000000 wrote:
| I remember reading about Eben and Gavin (founders of Ecovative
| which powers Mushroom Packaging) about 15 years ago in some
| promotional material from their alma mater. If I recall
| correctly, they did have a deal with Dell at one point for their
| packaging. It's cool to see they're still working on this and
| have raised quite a bit more money since then.
| fluxify wrote:
| I was part of a team experimenting with mushroom packaging about
| 3 years ago. While we had quite good results material-wise, we
| couldn't really make the total environmental equation work on
| smaller scales. Growing the mycelium really fast and efficiently
| requires quite a bit of energy input (heating, humidity controls,
| airflow...) and you need to source quite a few ingredients for
| the growth medium. I'd be curious what the total ecological
| impact is if all of those inputs are factored in when doing it on
| a large scale (like Ecovative).
| [deleted]
| meatmanek wrote:
| The Opulo / LumenPNP folks talked about this in their video on
| packaging their pick-and-place machine[1]. They mention that it
| takes a month to grow the packaging, so you'd need a mold for
| each unit of product you plan to ship in a month.
|
| 1. https://youtu.be/Ku4Wvu6LsrU?t=379
| randyrand wrote:
| Cool to see this company gaining more attention!
| ghostly_s wrote:
| This video has literally no content about mycelium packaging
| aside from the one sentence you summarized.
| wy35 wrote:
| > and you need to source quite a few ingredients for the growth
| medium
|
| That's entirely dependent on the species.
|
| Oysters can be grown entirely on non-supplemented sawdust.
| Supplements can be just wheat bran or soy hulls, and maybe
| gypsum or CaCO3. That's a short ingredient list and easily
| sourced from your local Tractor Supply.
| telotortium wrote:
| You're leaving out
|
| > Growing the mycelium really fast and efficiently requires
| quite a bit of energy input (heating, humidity controls,
| airflow...)
|
| Given the impact of climate change, it's not really worth
| saving a little bit of oil to make the plastic (which, since
| it's not biodegradable, will probably not contribute to
| increasing greenhouse gasses) if you have to burn more oil,
| which _will_ produce CO2, to make the mushroom-based
| packaging.
| friedturkey wrote:
| With a move away from fossil fuels, CO2 will become less of
| a concern.
| LordDragonfang wrote:
| The fact that plastic isn't biodegradable is one of the
| main reasons there's a push for alternate packaging
| materials. Plastic overuse is a major ecological concern,
| to the point that some people are positioning it as an
| issue on par with global warming, and one we have time to
| work on fixing.
|
| In other words, avoiding plastic is the whole point here.
| solomonb wrote:
| Yet using mycelieum for packing materials requires lots
| of disposable plastic to convert something already
| suitable for a packing material (sawdust) into a
| different material suitable for packing material with a
| little green washing.
| solomonb wrote:
| You are leaving out:
|
| - Disposable autoclavable bags
|
| - Spawn (either grain or some form of sugar water)
|
| - Disposable lab equipment (scalpels, petri dishes, parafilm,
| syringes, etc). Some of this doesn't need to be disposable
| but then you spend more energy cleaning and sterilizing it.
|
| - All the energy that goes into sterilization,
| humidification, etc.
| somethoughts wrote:
| An interesting application might be the grow media for
| hydroponic farms. While visiting an aquaponics farm it seemed
| the grow media was styrofoam based which didn't seem quite
| right. An organic based solution that's also biodegradable
| would seem much better/safer.
| belval wrote:
| It might depend on the exploitation, but most raft methods
| (floating styrofoam board) I've seen will reuse the board so
| it's really not as bad as it seems.
|
| As for the safe part, the concentration of plastics in the
| nutrient solution might be a tad higher, but the plant will
| only pick up a small fraction or none of it so there aren't
| any big health concerns on that front.
| terr-dav wrote:
| In the same way that food will only pick up a small
| fraction of teflon from a nonstick pan, so there shouldn't
| be any big health concerns?
| belval wrote:
| Not really no, more in the sense that plants growing in a
| field with more lead (not lead contaminated, just above-
| average) might pickup a bit more lead from the soil and
| still be good for human consumption.
| rudolph9 wrote:
| Same way there's a small amount of cyanide in most apple
| seeds
| samstave wrote:
| What I would love to see would be the combining of indoor
| cannabis farming and mycelium growth.
|
| Do you think this would be a workable symbiosis?
| brianhorakh wrote:
| Yes, i work on exactly this now, for years, many failures.
| Co2 output from mushroom is the input to cannabis.
| Temperature differential is a real problem.
| samstave wrote:
| I would like to know more, I have worked in Cannabis (built
| out one of the few type 7 extraction labs in California...
| my neighbor and friend is the DA for the DCC in California,
| and I have close contact with some of the largest outdoor
| growers in the state...
|
| I'd be interested in hearing more and figuring out how to
| work more on this topic.
| cwkoss wrote:
| What is the temperature differential problem?
|
| (I think many mushrooms are pretty happy fruiting at ~70F
| room temperature, as is cannabis. Is it that the grow
| lights fight the humidity needs of the mushrooms? Or do the
| species of mushrooms you're using have different
| temperature needs? Or the cannabis grows faster as
| temperature increases?
|
| I've only worked with shiitake and oyster, and got poor
| results with one lions mane attempt so... definitely not an
| expert)
| elasticventures wrote:
| cannabis can grow _very_ fast in the right conditions.
| mushrooms can grow _very_ fast in the right conditions.
|
| so ... I suppose if you live in a place .. like Merica
| 70F/21c (or are you Liberian?) .. anyway, that 70F is
| 'golden temperature band' conducive to growing most
| anything. YES both species could co-exist without a lot
| of complication, neither will thrive, but neither will
| probably die. 70F - I think that's like Vista, CA. has
| the ideal 'most stable' temperature in the US. .. but
| real-estate is super expensive, so to have that you must
| live in a nice place, with good weather and blabla, "it's
| not farm-land", .. also if you need something you
| probably just order it from Amazon and it shows up a day
| later.
|
| RE: Cannabis 'optimal yield' .. i.e. we both get the
| 'same' genetics, from the same bank, which of us could
| grow a better plant? The environmental conditions + light
| + soil motility (or hydro) all contribute to phenotype
| expression, not just life cycle, .. over the life, the
| air-flow rate for transpiration, light fluence, all those
| must be in balance -- MOST cannabis per it's name 'weed'
| is quite hardy, but you'll get different phenotype
| expression, if you have poor ventilation, o2 build-up
| (low co2), that can shock/stress the plant, it won't be
| as dense (i.e. if you are sea level vs. growing on a
| mountain) .. if you start changing it's environment
| you'll see the plant changes _a lot_ , also using
| hormones, other approaches there are a lot of ways to
| boost yield (also, NEVER for example put Flower/Rose grow
| accelerate on your cannabis, it becomes cancer causing
| toxic when smoked! and this is why 'dark market' cannabis
| is so dangerous). Some cannabis growers buy industrial
| Co2 tanks and pipe that into their greenhouses,
| especially in places where they are limited to how many
| plants they can legally grow in a space, -- so it's known
| to use co2 helps to turn over bigger crops faster _(the
| co2 comes from petroleum, and it makes me sick to think
| they 're just dumping it into the atmosphere). I've seen
| growers using co2 do as many as ~6 full cycles per year
| (sort of like raising chickens indoors using lights).. so
| I wanted an organic source of Co2 from either brewing
| yeast and/or mushrooms! (NOTE: this is NOT cost
| competitive, petroleum based co2 is basically free)
|
| Because .. MOST growers, most farmers in general are
| pretty lazy, and "don't mess with it" since plants have
| evolved over hundreds of millions of years to exist on
| earth in the present climate. _Most* 'farmers' aren't
| scientists, they are inclined to let nature be nature and
| give up control of existential co-factors, beyond water,
| fertilizer, greenhouse structure. This is really easy,
| probably 'best' if you live in ideal climate zone, nature
| takes care of most of this for you -- I grew up in San
| Diego, CA. aside from water, the SoCal weather is
| extremely conducive to growing .. always 70F. US Farmers
| are often religious, and in this case, the religion is
| necessary because all they can do is pray for good
| weather, and (so I've been told) that seems to be working
| so far!
|
| Alas, I do not live in Merica anymore, .. I'm an Expat! I
| (intentionally) live someplace else, and having left the
| US my prayers are no longer answered. I left the US
| because I don't want to live in an anocracy (failed
| democracy), and at this point, perhaps in my lifetime the
| US will collapse into civil war, and the subsequent
| religious state that would emerge, it's not someplace I
| want to live. I mostly blame Regan, but I do miss the
| weather in San Diego. Alas, I digress. My point is:
| praying for crops only seems to work in America, mostly
| where there is already good weather & therefore better
| churches.
|
| Now, something most American's don't realize is that MOST
| of the people on the planet Earth, they live in a place
| where the weather is already unpleasant (I assume,
| because god hates non-Americas), and also mostly
| attributed to America, the non-American weather is only
| going to get worse (more extreme). Our ecosystem of
| plants & fungi - stuff that used to grow -- the truth is
| it already doesn't grow as well as it did for our grand-
| parents, and in the future, well who knows, .. indoor
| growing 'sheltered farming', controlling temperature,
| when it's all ~70F US (i.e. Los Angeles), farming there
| isn't hard, maybe the soil is bad,whaha, add some lime to
| break up your clay, then keep dumping yer high nitrogen
| fertilizer till it gets into your lakes & rivers .. or at
| least until we hit peak phosphorous and you can't
| buy/afford fertilizer .. that's maybe ~10-20 years but
| alas, I digress. American's don't realize how much easier
| agriculture is IN AMERICA (it's really got excellent
| climate, overall for it's size) .. again, this is
| attributed mostly to prayer & good weather from all the
| farmers praying.
|
| But for me -- I presently live in a place that is known
| for it's extreme temperature & humidity, not uncommon to
| have a 10(c) flux in an hour, etc. We aren't religious
| here, or at least not extremely religious like America,
| and everybody gets to vote (or they pay a fine), and all
| the votes get counted, and everybody is really respectful
| to each-other despite being secular.
|
| HOWEVER neither species we've discussed is presently
| legal where I am .. so as an foreigner, the punishments
| for being caught would be extremely unpleasant, bordering
| on "life destroying" (and ultimately I would be sent BACK
| to America). So _everything_ must be stealth, covert,
| blabla, and it 's even illegal to touch electrical wire
| unless I'm a licensed electrician out of over-zealous
| concern for fire. .. hint: as an immigrant, I'm not
| licensed to do anything. FML.
|
| With agriculture being a biological process, it's
| innately a markov chain, each action, any discrete
| failure, impacts the rest of the chain, the organism gets
| stressed, it doesn't grow as well, maybe it fruits early,
| or not at all.
|
| The /optimal/ growing conditions for cannabis & fungi are
| known to be different. Once the HVAC systems are
| interconnected between two systems, the number of
| variables which can grow horribly wrong, and where
| balancing one impacts the other. Add more factors, such
| as experimenting with different cultivation cycles &
| processes, etc. the combined system(s) doesn't lend
| itself to micro-scale 'experimentation', ..
| interconnecting the two systems in a way they can co-
| exist, in theory, simple, in practice, not as simple. In
| practice you need a lot of sensors, automation, climate
| buffer zones, and/or patience & dealing with
| disappointment.
|
| fwiw - I am _trying_ to figure out how to micro-scale &
| automate the control systems. So if anybody says "yeah,
| this is easy" please show me how. I am designing a system
| I would like to take to Mars colony (not interested in
| the moon) and I basically don't see how NASA or SpaceX
| can build a sustainable mars colony without using
| fungi/Eukaryotes.
|
| Finally -- for those who made it to the bottom of this
| post. Fwiw mushrooms, i.e. oyster, reshi, can supposedly
| grow EXTREMELY FAST, like ~20x faster than 'normal' using
| high voltage stimulus, or potentially similar effects
| using cold-plasma) .. papers & studies, also look up
| 'fairy rings' where mushrooms grow in a circle after a
| lightning strike -- (this has been 'anecdotally' known
| for thousands of years).
| samstave wrote:
| Uhm I am replying to this post, but give me some time. I
| hope to make it worth your wait.
| elasticventures wrote:
| no worries, was having fun with the response.
| xhevahir wrote:
| >when it's all ~70F US (i.e. Los Angeles), farming there
| isn't hard, maybe the soil is bad,whaha...
|
| You don't mention the huge, state-managed infrastructure
| needed to bring water to those places(which seem to be
| close to exhausting their supply.) I don't think it's
| climate that's made American agriculture so productive.
| AngryData wrote:
| I just want to add, if people are upgrading to LEDs they
| will have a drop in yield unless they raise room
| temperatures to 80F or more so there is still a
| temperature differential, although to me it seems
| relatively minor especially using heat exchangers. The
| high efficiency of LED grow lights means leaf
| temperatures are much lower so room temperature must go
| up to compensate.
| cwkoss wrote:
| I wonder if the root zone needs the warmth too, or if its
| just the aerial parts of the plant that needs the warmth
| for optimal growth.
|
| Maybe plastic with holes for each stem could be used to
| insulate the aerial airspace from the root airspace and
| then a small heatpump could make that 10F differential
| with relatively low power cost.
| samstave wrote:
| Super interesting.
|
| I wonder what the baseline is btwn the two ;
|
| How dependent on heat is the "fruitful" nature of the
| plant vs the subsitance livability of the plant?
|
| i.e.
|
| Min temp for survival vs min temp to fruit and the
| balance between... What is the coldest one can keep a
| plant while maintaining max fruiting output?
| monetus wrote:
| Find any mycelium that help the root systems?
| samstave wrote:
| AFAIK all mycelium helps root systems, from the symbiotic
| relation, but in indoor, hydro type grows it might be
| harder.
|
| What would be interesting is the combination of vertical
| mushroom grows and vertical hydro culture.
|
| Imagine a tube/tower of mycelium, but also allowing the
| cannabis to grw out of the tube/tower... and having the
| root systems intertwined, but the problem therein is that
| the diff in the mycelium being perennial as opposed to
| the cannabis being annual...
| monetus wrote:
| I've experimented with vertical farming greens and
| mushrooms together; figuring out the schedule for the
| different colors of light can be a bit of a pain, but I
| used LEDs. - I stacked tote bins that I had drimmeled to
| interlock with eachother like a greenhouse. I don't think
| hydro would be possible without a super specialized
| fungus. If you ward off infections, regular hardwood
| based edible mushrooms work in dirt with vegetables. The
| mycelium doesn't seem to particularly help though. Greens
| and most edible mushrooms come from different substrates.
| I've yet to really look, but I suspect most desirable
| mushrooms won't be the best mutualists. There will
| probably be some that are more than a little valuable in
| balancing a polyculture though. I really want to find
| those pairs and groups, like we've discovered in say oaks
| or orchids, where they seemed to have evolved together.
|
| Aside: Mushrooms are perennial but the mycelium doesn't
| always die away. And some are selfish in not so
| mutualistic ways too.
| solomonb wrote:
| Nitpick, but there are certainly parasitic fungi which do
| not have a symbiotic relationship with plants. Also only
| some fungi have a mycorrhizal relationship with plants.
| Most are saprophytic meaning they decompose dead organic
| material.
|
| This is of course extremely beneficial and required for a
| closed ecosystem, but the symbiotic relationship isn't as
| direct as mycorrhizal fungi and is really part of a much
| more complex network of soil organisms that all need to
| be at play. Simply introducing a saprophytic fungi to
| your soil will probably not result in any benefits to
| your indoor cannabis garden.
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