[HN Gopher] The Nimatron: first 'video game' debuted in 1939
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The Nimatron: first 'video game' debuted in 1939
Author : samizdis
Score : 52 points
Date : 2022-03-02 13:19 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (daily.jstor.org)
(TXT) w3m dump (daily.jstor.org)
| m3at wrote:
| Others are pointing out that it's hard to call this a video game
| (agreed), but I never heard of the nimatron and it was
| interesting. So thanks for sharing anyway!
| dang wrote:
| Only one small past thread:
|
| _Machine to Play Game of Nim (1940) [pdf]_ -
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29642355 - Dec 2021 (3
| comments)
|
| Also: https://pbgames.wordpress.com/2012/07/08/1940-nimatron/
| (via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12319633, but no
| comments there)
| bitwize wrote:
| "Spacewar blossoms spontaneously whenever a computer is attached
| to a bitmapped display."
|
| This Alan Kay quote was, at its time (early 70s) one of the most
| succinct expressions of a general principle: that electronic
| _computing_ and electronic _gaming_ are inextricably linked and
| that where you found one the other soon followed. Apparently...
| even back in 1938.
| brennopost wrote:
| An interesting video on the first "video game".
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHQ4WCU1WQc
| cosmiccatnap wrote:
| wildzzz wrote:
| This is as much of a video game as Simon and Bop-It are video
| games.
| raldi wrote:
| I agree, except I think all three are video games.
| SkyBelow wrote:
| Electronic game or video game?
| masswerk wrote:
| I think, we should really come up with a suitable definition in
| order to separate the concept "video game" from other
| technically-mediated games.
|
| I once [1] came up with the following criteria for the term
| "digital video game":
|
| - Digital real-time computing* running some kind of simulation,
|
| - A visual display to communicate the state of the game
| (preferably a CRT as in "video"),
|
| - Means of user input for uninterrupted real-time interaction.
|
| - Further, the simulation and its on-screen rendition should be
| updated at a pace, which conveys the impression of a seamless
| interaction (i.e., about a minimum of 10-12 steps per second).
|
| Meaning, there's a closed feedback loop between the machine and
| the player(s), which exposes intervals for accepting interactive
| input, which may be used by the player to change the game's state
| or may be passed, as well, and that the rendition (primarily
| visual, on a planar surface) of the output of this loop is
| supposed to generate a seamless experience of the game world (as
| governed by its mechanics, rules, and internal states, which may
| be exposed to a varying degree). In other words, according to
| this proposed definition, video games in the stricter sense are
| frame based (as opposed to turn based) and include a temporal
| dimension. (E.g., Lunar Lander for the PDP-8 is not a [digital]
| video game, even when displayed and operated by a video terminal,
| while Lunar Lander for the GT40 is.)
|
| *) Notably, "real-time computing" doesn't necessarily mean
| general purpose computing. Any kind of interactive signal
| generator will do. (Compare Computer Space, Pong, etc., in the
| analog domain Higinbotham's Tennis, AKA Tennis for Two.)
|
| [1] https://www.masswerk.at/nowgobang/2019/michigan-pool
| Agentlien wrote:
| I don't like the idea of requiring continuous real-time input
| and visual updates. This disqualifies a lot of applications
| which I would definitely consider video games.
|
| For example, this rules out anything turn based which listens
| to input only when it is the user's turn and updates the screen
| only when turns are taken. This could be anything from a simple
| board game to a highly complex turn-based 4X strategy game.
|
| I would also argue this doesn't allow for any type of text
| based adventure game in the vein of Zork: they may listen to
| input most of the time, but there's no indication of a
| continuous logic or render loop running while waiting for user
| input.
| masswerk wrote:
| I think, the distinction is necessary for determining the
| _first_ video games. As the genre matures, we may broaden the
| definition. (E.g., to anything sold and /or reviewed under
| this title. The problem arises only as long as there is no
| recognition or general concept of video games.) I would also
| suggest to exclude anything that is "just" a simulation of an
| existing, physical game the same way. (Is a billiards
| simulation a video game? Well, is then a dice game with
| realistic animations of dropping dice a video game?)
| Max-q wrote:
| Isn't this a game, not a video game? I thought video games used a
| video screen, instead of a static setup. But cool anyway!
| causi wrote:
| There are products that definitely ride the border. For
| example, if Nim isn't a videogame, are LCD-games videogames? I
| think most people would still call Game & Watch consoles
| videogames, despite the fact they aren't doing any kind of
| bitmap imaging.
| adventured wrote:
| > For example, if Nim isn't a videogame, are LCD-games
| videogames?
|
| I didn't consider them video games growing up. It's going to
| vary from person to person.
|
| For example in the 1980s I owned a hand-held electronic
| interactive game made by Tiger, called John Elway's
| Quarterback [1]. They try to call it a video game on the back
| of the packge it was sold in (an "LCD video game"), but back
| then (~1989) Nintendo games were video games, and that Tiger
| device was merely an interactive electronic toy game (as far
| as I was concerned). GameGear was a video game however, as
| was GameBoy (video game playing devices; the cartridges were
| the video games, to be specific); I think it's the
| depth/elaborateness of the game (what it's capable of) and
| level of interactivity possible that separates them in my
| view.
|
| [1] photo from eBay: https://i.imgur.com/PVcMFok.jpg
| samizdis wrote:
| I debated whether to include "video game", as it was described
| in the sub-heading. Maybe I should edit to quote those words.
| [edit to add - I've just wrapped quotes around them.]
|
| Somewhat related, I noticed that the Nimatron Wikipedia page
| [1], which has quite a bit of interesting info, also mentions
| Nimrod.
|
| On its Wikipedia page [2], it says, _" The Nimrod, built in the
| United Kingdom by Ferranti for the 1951 Festival of Britain,
| was an early computer custom-built to play Nim, inspired by the
| earlier Nimatron. The twelve-by-nine-by-five-foot
| (3.7-by-2.7-by-1.5-meter) computer, designed by John Makepeace
| Bennett and built by engineer Raymond Stuart-Williams, allowed
| exhibition attendees to play a game of Nim against an
| artificial intelligence."_
|
| Also an interesting read, in my opinion at least.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimatron
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod_(computer)
| kingcharles wrote:
| When I was young I don't remember the term video game being
| used very much, the preferred term was always "computer game",
| even for console games.
| k__ wrote:
| It got multiple lights to display game state, so why not?
|
| These handhelds LCDs that could only display a small number of
| images are also considered video games.
| jhbadger wrote:
| Normally I think those are called "electronic games", as were
| the earlier games that just used LEDs (like the famous Mattel
| "Electronic Football" from the 1970s that had you control an
| LED representing an American football quarterback trying to
| get touchdowns without being tackled by opponents, also
| LEDs). Video games are electronic games, but not all
| electronic games are video games.
| dahart wrote:
| Looks like Nimatron has a 4x7 pixel display. Maybe that should
| count?
| alenmilk wrote:
| > The Nimatron." A non-programmable digital computer.
|
| How can a computer be non-programmable? The whole idea of a
| computer is that it runs a list of instructions.
| agumonkey wrote:
| in those days a computer was a thing that computes (a
| calculator) not necessarily featuring programs
| astoriafloyd wrote:
| I believe they mean that it was not RE-programmable, it was
| designed to do exactly one thing, and would require hardware
| changes to execute a different program.
| assbuttbuttass wrote:
| I assume it's all implemented in hardware. Maybe misleading in
| today's terms to call it a "computer"
| dahart wrote:
| We have hard-wired non-programmable computers in production
| today. GPUs have sub-components that do fixed-function
| computation and don't run on instructions. I suspect this
| analog AI processor is not programmable: https://www.mythic-
| ai.com/product/m1076-analog-matrix-proces.... It seems likely
| to me that we're about to see a lot of growth in specialized
| non-programmable hardware since chips have started hitting
| size & process limitations. Turning common workflows into
| fixed-function hardware is one of the lowest hanging fruits
| we have for increasing compute efficiency.
| orbital-decay wrote:
| Plenty of DSPs can't be programmed. Many analog computers
| of old, as well.
| dahart wrote:
| By making fixed-function hardware, which may or may not run on
| hard-coded instructions per se. Think about a calculator to
| start with. There are lots of ways to make a computer that are
| not a Von Neumann architecture, which is what you're thinking
| of. There are a bunch of examples of non-programmable computers
| here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer#History
| alenmilk wrote:
| > Computers are programmable. A system created from logic
| gates, executing a fixed set of operations is not called a
| computer. Your washing machine is not a computer either.
|
| Found this quote that sums it up nicely.
| simcop2387 wrote:
| This is weirdly not as good an example anymore, as LG does
| sometimes put out firmware updates for their washing
| machines: https://appliantology.org/topic/77501-lg-model-
| wt4970cw-top-...
|
| We're in a very weird transitional phase for a lot of this
| kind of thing. It's still largely a fixed set of
| operations, but it can be re-programmed and in theory isn't
| completely restricted to just those functions. Someone
| could port doom to it (I do actually want to see that one).
| bitwize wrote:
| In 1938, not so much.
|
| In the 1940s, there were computers, such as ENIAC, that
| were programmed with plugboards that changed the
| connections between modules that performed various
| mathematical operations.
|
| If the modules in the Nimatron could be reconfigured to
| perform other operations, the Nimatron would, by the
| standards of the era, be considered an electronic computer,
| even if today we usually reserve that term for Von Neumann
| style machines where the program consists of symbols stored
| directly in the machine's memory.
| masswerk wrote:
| This definition excludes what was once the known totality
| of computers, namely mechanical and electronic targeting
| and firing computers and all analog computers.
|
| _Digital general purpose_ computers are programmable by
| the means of a set of discrete operations. However, this
| doesn 't generalize to include all sorts of computers.
| alenmilk wrote:
| But then from the wikipedia page.
|
| The Online Etymology Dictionary states that the use of the
| term to mean "'calculating machine' (of any type) is from
| 1897.
|
| The Online Etymology Dictionary indicates that the "modern
| use" of the term, to mean 'programmable digital electronic
| computer' dates from "1945 under this name
|
| So computer is the correct term before 1945.
| dahart wrote:
| "Computer" remains today a word that means any
| computational device. Without any context, it's safe to
| assume programmability, but that's just a reasonable
| assumption and not a definition of the word computer.
| People are making fixed-function computers today, and
| @orbital-decay and I already gave examples of them here.
| I happen to work on fixed-function non-programmable
| hardware that is part of a widely used commodity
| processor today, a sub-core that does arbitrary amounts
| of computation without being instruction driven and can't
| be used for general purpose computation.
| michaelsbradley wrote:
| If a computer is a machine that helps me compute, then
| I'd argue an electronic calculator fits the definition
| regardless of the century:
|
| https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/compute
|
| I'd be inclined, though, to exclude "non machine"
| counting tools such as an abacus.
| dahart wrote:
| Where's this quote from? Who said it? Using a washing
| machine as your counter example feels like a straw man. Is
| a calculator not a computer?
|
| * edit just to add your quote is definitely wrong. A CPU is
| a set of logic gates that executes a fixed set of
| operations.
|
| People have used the word "computer" for a _lot_ of non-
| programmable machines over the years, and it's clear in the
| Wikipedia article I linked to that programmability is a
| recent feature of computers, and was not always there. (Nor
| is it always there to this day.)
|
| While I'm sure you can find examples of people that agree
| with you, that doesn't invalidate history. A computer is
| anything that computes something, that's how the word has
| been defined and used up to and including today. This
| includes the Antikythera (analog computer) and even
| (loosely) the Abacus (digital "computer").
| leejoramo wrote:
| Originally the term "computer" was applied to describe a
| persons occupation similar to "teacher" or "engineer"
|
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_(occupation)
| asciimov wrote:
| Over the years we have evolved the meaning of computer from
| something that calculates or reckons to a electronic device
| that runs software. In reality any black box that has a one-to-
| one relationship between inputs and outputs can be considered a
| computer.
|
| It might be easier to think of mechanical computers, such as
| the WW2 fire control computers aboard Navy Ships[0] or more
| famously the Antikythera mechanism[1]. These are fixed devices,
| they compute values from inputs. The "program" is stored in the
| gears camshafts and differentials and ratios between them.
|
| Similarly, fixed digital computers such as the Nimatron have
| their operations stored in relays and digital logic. These
| sorts of computers don't have a list of instructions. They just
| have schematics, inputs going through electronic circuits that
| wind up at outputs. You can do a lot of calculating with just
| simple logic gates.
|
| [0] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1i-dnAH9Y4
|
| [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism
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