[HN Gopher] Tell HN: Product Hunt is full of shill accounts, pai...
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       Tell HN: Product Hunt is full of shill accounts, paid upvotes and
       spam
        
       Product Hunt was once a curated collection of interesting new
       products, shared to a small newsletter list of enthusiasts.  Today,
       it has become a pyramid scheme of paid upvotes, shill accounts, and
       rampant spam. And nobody is talking about it.  Have a look at
       Today's #2Product of the Day with 500+ upvotes. They are ALL sock
       puppet accounts, and most comments and upvotes within a short
       period of time.  The comments are all obvious astro-turfing, with
       names like "AccountHolder2". Most of the other top products of the
       day have the same problem. See for yourself here:
       https://www.producthunt.com/posts/teyuto-2  Something is deeply
       rotten with Product Hunt. There are maybe 2 or 3 posts in the top
       products of the day that aren't full of utter garbage comments from
       fake accounts.  I shared a link to this before and it was marked as
       Dead. I'm assuming because the system thought it was promoting
       someone's Product Hunt launch rather than pointing out a huge
       failing in one of the most important communities online.  Most
       upvotes are commercially driven. It seems like something that could
       be fixed with reasonable moderation.
        
       Author : dannywarner
       Score  : 111 points
       Date   : 2022-03-01 04:52 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
       | jabo wrote:
       | Here's some anecdata. About a year ago I posted on ProductHunt
       | and a few hours later I received this cold DM on Twitter:
       | 
       | ---
       | 
       | Hi ,
       | 
       | Amazing product, Congratulations on the launch of your product,
       | in product hunt .your product post deserves to get top 5. I saw
       | your product hunt post, it got 23 votes. But still don't get any
       | badge. I am Interested to help you to get, product of the day
       | #1-5 badge 100% Guarantee. I can boost & promote your Product
       | Hunt campaign & also can make your product, Product of the Day
       | #1-5 Position only for $100. After successfully completing my
       | work you can pay me. Increase more sales and engagement. You can
       | be 100% sure that I won't violate PH's T&C. The product will be
       | 100% safe. I hope that you can see the rank improvement within
       | 1-2 hours after starting my work. Let me know if have anything
       | else you want to know. Best Regards
        
       | Lascaille wrote:
       | >It seems like something that could be fixed with reasonable
       | moderation.
       | 
       | That means it cannot be fixed, because the spammers are a billion
       | developing world schoolchildren posting from their phones because
       | some game or app gives them a micron of credit if they post a
       | comment, while your moderators need a modicum of trust.
        
       | sergiotapia wrote:
       | Product Hunt is a relic from the 2013 era of internet companies.
       | I didn't realize people still used it seriously. Might as well
       | also use StumbleUpon.
        
       | qnsi wrote:
       | Everywhere where there is incentive difference there are
       | problems.
       | 
       | Why would anyone go on producthunt and browse new products? When
       | I need something I google. But having a vanity plate on landing
       | page "product of the day" gives social value, so product creators
       | abuse the system.
       | 
       | Same thing goes for reddit reviews. If you go to any subreddit
       | multiple times a day someone would ask for a recommendation.
       | Normal user might spent 5 seconds answering "I use product X. Its
       | good". But if I am a marketer in firm making X, I can write long,
       | seemingly unbiased overview, then mentioning X is best. I get
       | paid to do so.
        
       | AHASIC wrote:
       | It's a popularity contest these days and niche products rarely
       | see the light of day there.
       | 
       | I am an approved submitter there and I can confirm that there are
       | a bunch of FB pages for producthunters to ask for upvotes from
       | one another.
        
       | smt88 wrote:
       | Maybe I was too late to PH, but it always seemed to be this way
       | to me.
       | 
       | For years, "#1 on ProductHunt" is a strong signal to me to stay
       | away. It means the product is not much more than a landing page
       | and is run by marketers trying to fake it until they make it.
        
         | RileyJames wrote:
         | I found it pretty awesome very early on. Before it got its
         | funding round, tho it remained quite good for a while after.
         | 
         | But it clearly became garbage at some point. Personally I
         | stopped visiting when it seemed like a good 40%+ of the
         | "products" were 'info products', courses and mostly
         | insignificant curations of other products.
         | 
         | I liked it when it was a 'dedicated show HN, with some polish'.
         | But it didn't last. And I didn't find anything else of value
         | there.
        
           | aaaaaaaaata wrote:
           | Is there anyone out there who took a funding round and then
           | didn't despise working for their company?
           | 
           | That's my (current) dream.
        
       | rchaud wrote:
       | There have been posts here before that began to criticize PH for
       | the same reasons you describe. From what I remember, the
       | honeymoon period for that site was about a year. After that
       | gaming the system became a lot more common.
       | 
       | Most 'products' are of very low quality, or nothing at all, e.g.
       | "a collection of color palettes for your website". There are
       | sites like AppSumo where you can buy lifetime licenses for SaaS
       | software, and I've found that to be a better source of tools,
       | because those are somewhat mature products with a specific
       | audience in mind.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | sissjdb wrote:
        
         | orangepurple wrote:
         | I disagree.
         | 
         | > It seems like something that could be fixed with reasonable
         | moderation.
         | 
         | This has got to be peak HN naivete
        
       | lebaux wrote:
       | I was marinading the idea of making a side project with deeper
       | reviews of software, good and bad.
       | 
       | The domains I had in mind:
       | 
       | productrant.org
       | 
       | productc*nt.org
       | 
       | productant.org
       | 
       | I finally settled on productrant.org started working on my first
       | bigger piece and then the war in Ukraine broke out and abolished
       | my enthusiasm.
       | 
       | I do not see it as a potent commercial project, I think I am just
       | at that stage of life when I want to reach "best" section at HN
       | once and subsequently get comments explaining how wrong I am
       | about everything.
       | 
       | Thoughts on the domain? The overall idea? Thanks!
        
         | Wiseacre wrote:
         | There is a lot of software out there. Were you intending on
         | focusing on a specific domain?
        
           | lebaux wrote:
           | I am debating that myself, I figured I just make stuff up as
           | I go. I discovered a ton of little known alternatives for
           | your typical end-user needs, so probably nothing too
           | specific.
           | 
           | Alternatively, I work with WordPress and ever-hated SEO for
           | some years now[1] and most of the things surrounding these
           | two things is a scheme made to extract money from end-users.
           | Should I focus on that? For example, if you look for "free
           | wordpress themes 2022" you will find that the first page of
           | Google results is all listicles of freemium themes that are
           | years old. Of course the "best" themes are the ones who offer
           | affiliate program.
           | 
           | This is both fail of Google and WordPress, if you ask me. I
           | started a sheet of all the websites deems quality results on
           | this search query and linked together the repeated offenders,
           | I want to use as much data as possible to support my salty
           | opinions. The thing is... does anyone even care about this?
           | 
           | [1] https://theseoframework.com, SEO plugin for WordPress,
           | FOSS, currently around 150k users, operated mostly by 2 guys.
        
       | Kaotique wrote:
       | _Teyuto is a product that allows you to create a customized video
       | channel, which is also available on all mobile and smart tv
       | applications! The comment must be original and different from any
       | other user e positive about the product._
       | 
       | They even forgot to remove the instruction on how to write the
       | original comment. What a joke.
       | 
       | When we launched on PH we did zero marketing for it and you do
       | get some nice comments and replies from it. Even with zero
       | marketing we managed to get top 10 of the day, but I am sure you
       | can really game the system with some real effort or by using a
       | bunch of fake supporters.
        
         | duskwuff wrote:
         | The bio lines on the commenters are a real trip:
         | 
         | "K". "Be patient". "Jjdd". "I'm a college". "Hi". "simple man".
         | "hello iam hunting the products". And, last but not least,
         | "Bio".
        
           | josourcing wrote:
           | I smell GPT-3 (or 2 or 4 or whatever it is, it stinks).
        
         | culopatin wrote:
         | What a ride. It might be worth putting quotes around your first
         | paragraph because I thought you were a shill or some sort of
         | bot at first lol.
        
       | napolux wrote:
       | I stay away from PH. And I agree 100% with you.
       | 
       | A tool to create random colors? 500 votes.
       | 
       | NoCode platform for videogames really well done? 5 votes.
        
         | RileyJames wrote:
         | 100%. This is exactly why I stopped visiting it. The 'products'
         | became so thin. They were more often curations of other
         | products.
        
           | andrewSC wrote:
           | Not to venture too OT, however, would you be willing to offer
           | suggestions for sites like PH before it became what it is
           | today? I enjoy seeing "new products" however I'm not sure
           | what counts as a high quality source anymore.
        
             | zeruch wrote:
             | I never thought I'd miss "Freshmeat.net" (admittedly
             | focused on FOSS stuff, but it's listings and descriptions
             | and updates were pithy and clear, in chronological order).
             | 
             | Stuff like PH is a boondoggle.
        
           | samjanis wrote:
           | Yup. Looks like I'm not the only one seeing this.
           | 
           | I dropped out 2 years ago despite being on there since 2015
           | which in _my_ opinion was its peak. It was a great place to
           | chat with others about what everyone is building, with their
           | _own_ hands, but now there are too many solutions looking for
           | a problem.
           | 
           | At least hacker news has managed to keep somewhat neutral,
           | despite having its own share of criticisms.
        
       | dealforager wrote:
       | This is true of every forum on the internet, including HN. The
       | problem is 100x worse if there is money or power on the line,
       | such as in Product Hunt.
        
       | andrewmcwatters wrote:
       | Where do people go now?
        
       | nest0r wrote:
        
       | jdrc wrote:
       | Wasn't that their culture from the start? All its promotion here,
       | on twitter and and on indiehackers always felt so fake. Sometimes
       | when there's smoke there s fire
        
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       (page generated 2022-03-01 23:02 UTC)