[HN Gopher] Newly published 9/11 footage [video]
___________________________________________________________________
Newly published 9/11 footage [video]
Author : guidovranken
Score : 244 points
Date : 2022-02-26 09:46 UTC (13 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.youtube.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.youtube.com)
| [deleted]
| mhb wrote:
| YouTube doesn't have that image stabilization any more?
| techdragon wrote:
| Definitely a new angle, but it's also strange after so many years
| to find good footage like this. The random extra stuff at the end
| make it feel very genuinely "found an old miniDV tape with some
| footage of forgotten about."
|
| But it's also just really weird to hear people talking so clearly
| the moment after it happens. It's preserved a slightly surreal
| moment of shock quite well.
| lovehashbrowns wrote:
| The two other videos that got posted alongside this one makes
| me think it was a "forgotten tape that just got digitized" type
| of deal.
|
| However, I can also see there being an element of trauma and
| just not wanting to revisit the footage on purpose. I know I
| have some pictures I never want to look at again, although
| nothing on this scale.
| vmception wrote:
| There's also that everyone born after that is 21 years old
| now or a teenager and could have just found it in the attic,
| or ask the adult if they have any footage right after the
| 9/11 lesson in their history class
|
| Plenty of children and sibling's children around to find this
| and convince to post it
| zuminator wrote:
| I too have a couple of photos I took that beautiful*, awful
| morning that I never shared online. Nothing that hasn't been
| seen before, but at the same time they feel very personal.
| It's not at all surprising to me that people have sat on
| footage.
|
| * There was nothing beautiful about the attack, obviously,
| but the day itself was a perfect late summer New York day
| with a totally cloudless sky. So you'd look in one direction
| and see smoke and devastation, you'd face the other direction
| and see nothing but pure crystalline blue skies. It was quite
| surreal.
| necrotic_comp wrote:
| 9/11 blue is such a distinct color, and it's seared into my
| brain. It's so intwined with the day, it's part of the
| permanent collection at the museum:
| https://www.911memorial.org/connect/blog/trying-remember-
| col...
| [deleted]
| 938rrhri3hirhi3 wrote:
| Hey I'm really sorry my previous comment offended it was a
| poorly judged and poorly written expression of my feelings.
| Just that feeling of lost innocence and lost security at the
| point everyone realised it was on purpose must have been
| incredibly jarring. Pretty terrible to go from carefree to
| the idea that this could happen at any moment. The British
| have done enough meddling around the world that half the
| world bears us a grudge. There were bombings in London quite
| frequently when I grew up though they got a lot less deadly
| into the 90's. Even so, when the train station I used to go
| to school had a bomb left in it, I had pretty bad nightmares
| for a while after that. I always had a sense that something
| could happen at any time from as soon as I was old enough to
| understand the security posters and the PA announcements
| about unattended bags. The last big IRA bomb in London was
| miles away yet it violently rattled the windows in my house.
| Then there was a break until 9/11 happened and it was obvious
| that there was going to be a reaction to this. When the wars
| in the middle east started we knew it was only a matter of
| time before it happened to us again. So when ~100 people were
| killed in the Al Qeada train bombings in London. I felt like
| 'oh this again' and there was just this crushing feeling that
| it was back for real. I remember randomly bursting into tears
| in a pub that night at the senseless randomness of it.
|
| Whereas you all got yanked into this different awful reality
| that happens out of nowhere watching this extreme insane next
| level thing happen on live TV, it's quite a different thing
| to growing up with a low level sense that it is normal that
| someone might want to do something bad to you purely because
| you live in a particular place in a particular country. I
| think thats what I was getting at; that my life experience
| would have meant that when the second one hit it was a
| feeling of resignation and deep sadness, because I was used
| to the idea that terror attacks happen. But coming literally
| out of the blue for you guys it must have been a different
| emotion, truly shocking especially given how extreme these
| attacks were and how they played out in full view of everyone
| instead of in grimy tunnels and smokey pubs like all the
| stuff that happened when I was a child. Because it was such a
| shock for Americans I was pretty scared about how you were
| going to react, I remember seriously discussing with friends
| wether we thought you would use nukes or if we were all going
| to end up conscripted to fight with you in some huge war to
| exact revenge on whoever had done it seems far fetched now
| but there have definitely been serious global consequences.
|
| This whole Ukraine thing has really reminded me of the
| nuclear war nightmares I used to have in the 80's as well. I
| feel an impending sense of doom about this also. I hope I'm
| wrong.
| techdragon wrote:
| Yeah, not wanting to revisit it fits with the "didn't remove
| random other footage", I can entirely understand them
| thinking "I'll just uploaded it how it was because... I don't
| want to think about trying to watch this again to edit it"
|
| It's also surprisingly good quality too. I really was
| surprised at the zoom and focus on early into it. Gives me a
| distinct impression it was shot on what was probably quite a
| good portable video camera for the period.
| freedomben wrote:
| I had a very similar video camera at the time. It was a
| surreal blast from the past, especially the slow frame by
| frame section.
| Alex3917 wrote:
| > I know I have some pictures I never want to look at again,
| although nothing on this scale.
|
| Much like photos the U.S. soldiers took in Europe while
| liberating the death camps. Most of them just went into their
| attics until they died and their kids were cleaning out their
| stuff.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| As someone who watched the second plane hit live on CNN, it
| was... hard.
|
| People who weren't alive or were otherwise busy that morning
| don't remember the uncertainty after the first plane.
| Everyone thought it was an accident.
|
| No one could conceive it was a deliberate strike. Everyone
| knew terrorists hijacked airplanes to fly to third world
| countries, not to commit suicide into buildings.
|
| That cognitive dissonance all collapsed in a single instant
| as the second plane hit. And that's a lot to process all at
| once. I still can't watch video footage without crying.
|
| If I'd been the videographer, you'd better believe I'd have
| locked this in my attic and forgotten about it.
| HeyLaughingBoy wrote:
| Exactly! I remember getting dressed for work while
| listening to MPR (Minnesota Public Radio) about an airplane
| hitting the WTC and I figured it was just a small Cessna
| 172 or something so I turned on my TV just in time to see
| the second impact live.
|
| Watching it happen live with the immediate knowledge that
| it was obviously a deliberate act was, like you said, a
| huge amount to process all at once.
|
| I actually think that having a goal like "get dressed and
| go to work" probably was a great benefit to my mental
| state.
| vb234 wrote:
| The memory I have of that day is similar. I had an early
| morning class and work in the afternoon. When we left the
| early morning class, a friend got a call from his parent
| asking if he was okay. We were in a midwestern college
| town nowhere near in danger of being a target. Checked
| the news on Yahoo and all we could get at that point was
| that a flight flew into the World Trade Center. We
| thought it was a private small jet that flew off course
| and laughed it off. Went home, turned on the TV and saw
| the second plane hit.
|
| I still think back to that day and have some guilt about
| our initial reaction to the first flight. Given how
| instantly news propagates today I assumed that back then
| we knew the details already and just made light of the
| suffering. I moved to NYC right after college and recall
| those early years in the city where everyone knew every
| little detail of the day. Your recollection assuages some
| of the guilt I harbor from that day.
| ethbr0 wrote:
| I think everyone of a certain age, who was around their
| peers as it happened, either made a thoughtless comment
| or heard one.
| vitaflo wrote:
| I had my clock radio set to MPR as well and woke up to
| them talking about the first plane. Usually the news
| every morning didn't register but that day it did.
|
| I turned on the TV to see what was going on, which I
| usually don't do. After a couple minutes of "oh my that's
| a tragic accident" the second plane hit an I immediately
| knew it was no accident.
|
| I worked downtown Mpls at the time and no way I was going
| to work that day. Thankfully my boss told everyone to
| stay home.
|
| Seeing all of it live is a memory burned into my brain
| the same as watching the Challenger blow up live in
| middle school.
| 938rrhri3hirhi3 wrote:
| anonu wrote:
| SllX wrote:
| I second this. I was a child in Elementary school at the
| time and had just woken up and walked into the living room
| with the television on after the first plane attack. The
| reporter (forgot the network, I'd seen the same footage
| repeatedly all day that day and never wanted to look again)
| was still talking about the possibility of it being an
| accident right up until the second plane attacked. Even in
| my eyes at the time, one might be an accident but two was
| an attack.
| vlunkr wrote:
| My only connection to the word "terrorist" until that day
| was from a James Bond game (I was also young). Its hard
| to believe now, but the idea of a deliberate attack on
| civilians was really not on most people's radar at all. I
| think that's why most people's reaction to the second
| plane was pure bewilderment. It wouldn't be like that
| now.
| boomboomsubban wrote:
| >Its hard to believe now, but the idea of a deliberate
| attack on civilians was really not on most people's radar
| at all.
|
| Though people were far less concerned about it than now,
| it's not fair to say it wasn't on their radar at all. The
| WTC had already been attacked once, and Timothy McVeigh
| was executed for the Oklahoma City Bombing only a few
| months before 9/11.
|
| Even on the day, in that twenty minute window between
| crashes the general narrative was it might be an attack,
| just no reason to think it is yet.
| Geezus-42 wrote:
| I was in 6th grade, when we walked into second period
| English the teacher had a new channel on the TV. Noone
| had told us anything was going on so my friend and I were
| sitting in our desk making jokes thinking it was some
| movie until the teacher came in and told us it was real,
| then the second plane hit. Weird day...
| chrissnell wrote:
| I remember it like it was yesterday. I lived in northern
| Virginia and was working at AOL as a sysadmin. I was young
| and a little flaky back then. I overslept that morning and
| when I woke up to take the dog out, it was a beautiful,
| crisp fall morning. I called a coworker to tell him that I
| would be late for the team meeting (this being pre-Zoom and
| before the "standup" became a thing). He said, "no worries,
| dude. Turn your TV on, the WTC is on fire and we are
| watching it." I turned my TV on and a minute or two later,
| the second plane hit. Instantly, I knew that this was going
| to be a big deal and since we helped run CNN.com, I quickly
| dressed and hauled ass to work to help with the inevitable
| web traffic surge. My buddy called me and said, "don't
| bother coming in, they are evacuating the buildings". There
| was a rumor that a hijacked plane was circling DC and AOL
| was right near IAD. I went back home, only to be called in
| an hour later. We were taken to the AOL leadership bunker,
| which I didn't even know existed. A large conference room
| deep underground below a small data center on the campus.
| We spent the next two days nursing CNN. for lunch on
| germinalphrase wrote:
| "We were taken to the AOL leadership bunker"
|
| Is this a "critical infrastructure" thing?
| dkarl wrote:
| Cognitive dissonance even for people who missed it. At the
| time I was in my early twenties, started my day late, and
| usually didn't check news until after getting a little bit
| of work done. When I got to work, nobody else was there,
| which was weird. There was a TV on an AV cart in the middle
| of a hallway, also a bit weird. There was a note from the
| CEO saying that everyone was going home to be with their
| families. That also seemed a bit weird, but I shrugged it
| off. Our CEO was a family values guy, very Christian, and I
| had heard he used to lead prayers in the office when the
| company was smaller. (It didn't occur to me that it was a
| Tuesday and everybody's families should be at school or
| work.) So I sat down with my coffee and started working.
| After a while, at a time that I guess would have been close
| to noon in New York, I went to cnn.com, which came up as a
| primitive-looking site without any media, so I chuckled
| internally and took a screenshot, thinking CNN had been
| hacked. How could CNN let themselves get hacked! I skimmed
| over the headlines thinking that the hackers would have put
| in something political or humorous, but I didn't see
| anything like that, and started to think, okay, this is
| CNN's real content, so their web site got hacked or
| otherwise impacted by something, so they put up the text
| site while they recover. I starting thinking about what
| could have affected their site like that, and then it
| dawned on me that the top headline might have something to
| do with it.
|
| I know others have been downvoted for saying this, but for
| me the shocking nature of it took a while to sink in. I had
| not had a chance to travel much yet at that point. I had
| been to New York City once, just like I had been to Europe
| once and seen London and Paris and Rome. I came from a
| small town in Texas and had a habit of thinking of all of
| those places as the "real world" where big real things
| happened, places that had diplomats and stock exchanges and
| famous universities and celebrities and, well, terrorist
| attacks. The 9/11 attacks didn't violate that sense of
| order. On a gut, emotional level, it was just a real world
| type thing happening in a real world type place. It took me
| a while to understand why people were reacting so
| differently.
| freedomben wrote:
| Indeed. I was in high school watching CNN live at the time
| the second plane struck. There was tremendous uncertainty
| about what had happened. I thought for sure it had been
| egregious pilot error.
|
| We watched as the second plane ran right into the tower. At
| that moment we started realizing that it was intentional.
| But even then, the uncertainty about who would do that to
| us and why, was really worse than before.
|
| This event really changed my entire life. Prior to this I
| had plans to finish my automotive tech trade school
| program. Within the next few days watching the footage of
| people leaping to their deaths in preference to burning
| alive, and as more and more information trickled in about
| who was responsible for the attack, I decided I needed to
| join the military to help ensure that nothing like this
| ever happened again. My life would have played out a whole
| lot differently if not for this.
| lkbm wrote:
| > But it's also just really weird to hear people talking so
| clearly the moment after it happens. It's preserved a slightly
| surreal moment of shock quite well.
|
| Yeah, it feels similar to reading the first Usenet threads
| about Chernobyl, AIDS, etc.:
| http://www.eightyeightynine.com/culture/80susenet.html
| [deleted]
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| I'll just say this: many here are convinced our AI overlords have
| landed and we'll soon all be out of jobs and deepfakes are
| undistinguishable from the real thing.
|
| So I'll say this: if you believe AI is advanced, then in 2022
| it's not possible to take this video for granted and you have to
| take into account that all evidence surfacing from now may be
| deepfakes. I'm not saying they are: I'm saying you have to keep
| that in mind.
| zild3d wrote:
| i have no doubt the mustache and essence of long island in the
| man he talks to is real
| kodah wrote:
| Please stop.
|
| I was in seventh grade when all this went down. It was around
| the time that they first started putting TVs in classrooms. The
| teacher flipped the channel to the news when it was announced
| that an accident occurred and a plane flew into the WTC. Then
| they kept coming live on TV. In subsequent days I listened to
| final phone calls between people and their families. The
| internet was so congested I could barely use it, and a huge
| part of that was because of services provided out of the WTC.
|
| It is well documented through declassified documents that were
| written two decades ago that these were Saudi nationals who had
| moved to America under the guise of learning to fly. They were
| aided by Al Qaeda and "happenstance" Saudi officials. Osama Bin
| Laden was a Saudi national, the leader, and one of the founding
| members of Al Qaeda.
|
| These are barebone facts. Please do not encourage further
| mythology around 9/11 - the kind of Loose Change-esque rhetoric
| that is obviously designed more for entertainment than actual
| productivity. 9/11 happened, everyone saw it, and a new angle
| isn't anything groundbreaking, therefore there's zero reason to
| fake it. It won't change our relationship with the Saudis, it
| won't bring us back into war, etc
| hondo77 wrote:
| > It was around the time that they first started putting TVs
| in classrooms.
|
| FYI, I attended an elementary school that had TVs in all the
| classrooms back in 1970.
| datavirtue wrote:
| There are many millions of people in the US who still have
| not seen rational expplainations as to the cause of the
| towers falling. The misinformation, confusion, and subsequent
| distrust of the government resulting from that and other
| factors has led to these people still holding onto the false
| flag narrative. It didn't help that they new who was
| responsible so soon after the attack (which I found very
| maddening and suspicious, certainly not comforting) and that
| certain elements within the Bush administration used the
| attack for their own agenda to start another war in Iraq.
| Years later it was proven to be a lie as we're the fact that
| the FBI was following all of the attackers, the Bush admin
| warned numerous times, and that fact was covered up as well.
|
| So, given all that and most of those millions of people
| probably never seeing anything more detailed than Loose
| Change they have lost all trust in government. This is one of
| the core elements of our modern day populist uprising.
|
| I had not even been aware of some of the sound explanations I
| have heard in this thread today. I watched the towers fall
| live, I watched the hideous war drumming and lying to start
| the Iraq war, live. In those days (I was 25) as someone who
| meticulously kept up with all open source material on world
| events previous, during, and after, I lost any and all faith
| in government.
|
| Since then, the opioid epidemic has been exposed and was
| something I lived through as well...all of it. I lost my dad,
| brother, closest uncle, and my cousin (brother-cuz) to that
| fucking nightmare.
|
| I know my experience is the tip of the ice berg. I'm smart
| and I can feel my way through misinformation but it is still
| tuff to do. I think people greatly misunderstand the impact
| of these events and how they are still lighting fires to this
| very day.
|
| It ain't over.
| oxguy3 wrote:
| This footage is not a deepfake. Deepfake is the technology that
| lets you emulate one person's face and slap it on someone
| else's head. There is no technology that can generate an entire
| 8-minute video of a specific event like 9/11 out of nothing. AI
| is not magic.
| nest0r wrote:
| Please for the love of everything go and inform yourself on the
| basics of computing especially hardware. There is so much
| shitty hype about everything and we are at least 1-2
| Generations away to make anything remotely feasible in that
| direction.
| inside6 wrote:
| jlkjlkj45y wrote:
| mgdlbp wrote:
| Fascinating are the words of netizens of the time in guestbooks,
| forums, and homepages of sites large and small that have been
| immortalized in the Internet Archive [a].
|
| The Internet Archive also has an extensive collection of
| televised news footage from --09-11 and the following weeks; I'm
| often reminded by its prominent placement in the 'Video' section
| of their navbar. Ironically, both their original 9/11 web
| collection (assembled by the Library of Congress shortly after
| the event) and the related Pew reports on internet use following
| 9/11 are lost to time; remnants can only be found in the Wayback
| Machine [0]. For whatever reason, it was replaced with one
| apparently curated by the September 11 Museum around 2008 [1].
|
| [0]
| https://web.archive.org/web/20011014012316/http://september1...
|
| [1] https://www.archive-it.org/collections/1029
|
| [a] an aside: I find the archived sites of schools (of all kinds)
| from the time particularly captivating. Perhaps the abridgement
| of time enhances their liminal nature. Or maybe it's the feeling
| of sincerity in guestbook messages and the personal homepages of
| students and staff.
| davidmurdoch wrote:
| The "(2001)" makes it seem like this is a link to a video titled
| "Newly published 9/11 footage" that was posted in 2001. Maybe
| "Newly published 2001/09/11 footage" would be a better title?
| nmilo wrote:
| Agreed, the (2001) is almost a little ridiculous---we all know
| 9/11 happened in 2001, and the year in the title is supposed to
| refer to publication date.
| pygar wrote:
| The word "terrorism" wasn't yet in the common vernacular. The
| people in the video were having a hard time articulating what
| they saw "That was a..dead on kill, he did it on purpose!".
| melling wrote:
| We see the plane around 2:05.
| [deleted]
| Simon_O_Rourke wrote:
| I was in NYC that week, visiting my in-laws, to be honest I've
| avoided watching this, because it's trauma is still raw, and
| viewing it again isn't going to provide any closure for me.
| [deleted]
| jlkjlkj45y wrote:
| throwaway5486nv wrote:
| Structural engineers please explain how can a tall concrete
| building collapse when hit in the middle?
| ceejayoz wrote:
| Been in a coma for two decades?
|
| https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-structural-e...
|
| > The four sides of each building formed a tube with window
| slots This tube was designed to carry the weight of the
| building and its contents directly downward to the foundations.
| The walls acted as vertical beams, wide and tall as the
| buildings, that bent to the side to absorb wind loads.
|
| https://science.howstuffworks.com/engineering/structural/wor...
|
| > Prior to the construction of the Twin Towers, skyscrapers
| were designed to support themselves through large internal
| columns spaced about 30 feet (9 meters) apart, which
| interrupted the flow of interior space. For this project
| however, the engineers came up with a different solution -- the
| exterior walls themselves would support the bulk of the
| structure, and they would get a boost from one single column of
| beams in the center.
|
| Make a big hole in the primary support structure and things go
| badly.
|
| (And before parroting the "jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams"
| thing as a follow-up, watch this excellent and short video from
| a blacksmith: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzF1KySHmUA)
| ydnaclementine wrote:
| Shoutout to the guy at 2:45 who was able to immediately identify
| the second plane as a United plane
| nobrains wrote:
| https://youtu.be/o6t31R4tI10?t=123
|
| Second plane
| smoyer wrote:
| Something that this angle shows (and that other footage I've seen
| hints at) is that the second plane would have missed the tower
| without a pretty serious turn in the last few seconds. That plane
| is screaming (we're used to a jet that size flying with it's
| flaps and landing gear down if (roughly) level at that altitude.
| This turn would have been higher than normal G forces!
| jedberg wrote:
| I noticed that too. The second plane almost missed!
| [deleted]
| m348e912 wrote:
| It's crazy that someone sat on the footage for 21 years and it
| just got made public now. Makes you wonder what else other
| footage or details are out there that has yet to be shared
| online.
| cpp_frog wrote:
| It's hard to believe, but new media of the September 11 attacks
| (and the towers before) comes out all the time. This includes
| rare pictures and videos. There are YouTube channels [0]
| specifically dedicated to finding music played on the plaza
| (muzak), partly inspired by Jack Taliercio's video [1], where
| you can hear songs being played while the attacks went down.
| Other channels have more mainstream videos (FOIA, NIST) but all
| of them were digitally enhanced [2], [3]. Other channels have
| pictures found online [4], but mainly the pictures can be found
| in recent subreddits [5], [6] where they also collect pictures
| of the inside of the towers, the other buildings of the complex
| and even the bridges between them. There is also a Flight 11
| impact video with some recordings that were never quite known
| [7], although the first everyone has already seen.
|
| Caveat: some of the channel's owners seem to be conspiratorial,
| but the majority of the videos are unedited. You'll be
| surprised how specific some of the footage is.
|
| [0]
| https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZFlhobtX9IHvXM0h1LcqaA/fea...
|
| [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdfqEYITTm8
|
| [2] https://www.youtube.com/c/WTCFOIAVideos
|
| [3] https://www.youtube.com/c/MrKoenig1985/videos
|
| [4]
| https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEpgWCL0UfhN1gwxAWpAo5A/vid...
|
| [5] https://www.reddit.com/r/TwinTowersInPhotos/
|
| [6] https://www.reddit.com/r/WorldTradeCenter/
|
| [7] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtWcQRCPkKk
| Invictus0 wrote:
| After all these years, I've still never seen a video of the
| Pentagon impact. Has anything come out for that?
| cpp_frog wrote:
| I personally don't know if there ever was a video of the
| impact other than that of the security camera [0]. I think
| of two reasons: the Pentagon is not NY, which is a highly
| populated area in a developed country, it's natural that so
| many people were filming. Even more so, the Twin Towers
| were cultural icons. I don't know if many people were
| around the Pentagon, but I have read about witnesses of the
| crash in DC. The other reason would be that they don't want
| to release it and it's understandable.
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon#11_September
| _2001...
| TacticalCoder wrote:
| Some 3 letters agency (FBI?) immediately raided all the
| nearby places that could have had cams and seized
| everything. I'm pretty sure that it's documented: IIRC
| footage from a petrol station nearby was confiscated.
|
| I was there (at the time, in front of my TV I mean) and I
| clearly remember the first witnesses being interviewed by
| reporters: as soon as a witness would say something not
| fitting the official narrative, it would never be aired
| again. For example regarding the pentagon one eye-witness
| said he saw something like a big missile on which wings had
| been strapped. I saw that on TV. I clearly remember it. Now
| I'm not saying it's not a Boeing that hit the Pentagon:
| what I'm saying is that it's very weird that all these
| ramblings from these drunkards mistaking, say, a Boeing
| with a "missile with wings strapped on it" were basically
| aired once then erased. I'm pretty sure that guy was both
| drunk _and_ of course because the plane was going fast, the
| mistake was made in honest faith (you, too, would certainly
| mistake a Boeing for a missile with wings strapped on it).
|
| Same thing with people saying they heard explosions in the
| WTC: as soon as they'd mention that, they'd be cut off by
| reporters and these people would never be interviewed again
| and their account never aired again (FWIW I don't believe
| in a controlled demolition but I do believe in narrative
| manipulation).
|
| After these oddities of course we all know totally normal
| things then happened: for example IIRC one the rare flight
| that was allowed to happen when no plane were flying in the
| US was a flight evacuating members of the Bin Laden family.
|
| And then the wars that followed. Made perfect sense. No
| fabricated evidence. Guantanamo and the like: all perfectly
| cromulent.
|
| When you take all this, honestly that we don't have any
| footage of that impact just seems on par for the course.
| spiderice wrote:
| It's interesting to me that even 20 years later, any
| comments that don't fit the official narrative still get
| downvoted on HN (and the rest of the internet). There was
| such a giant push after it happened to not question the
| official narrative, and that still remains embedded in
| everyone's heads. I wonder how long that will last.
| [deleted]
| pmoriarty wrote:
| _" It's interesting to me that even 20 years later, any
| comments that don't fit the official narrative still get
| downvoted on HN"_
|
| It's more of a case of extraordinary claims require
| extraordinary evidence.
|
| There are plenty of places on the internet where wild
| claims without a shred of evidence are tolerated and even
| encouraged. HN is not one of those.
| freedomben wrote:
| I can only speak for myself and extrapolate to others,
| but I think people really hate the conspiracy crap that
| emerges. There are enough conspiracy people that it falls
| into the "this is why we can't have nice things" camp. As
| someone who rejoices in truth, I can relate to this a
| lot.
|
| However I really hope people move toward skepticism (even
| of the official narratives) because I fear the effects of
| censorship more than I do the disinformation. Conspiracy
| crap has been around a long time and most of those people
| were considered crackpots, but since the major ramp up in
| effort that started about 6 years ago, the conspiracy
| stuff has exploded and is absolutely everywhere now. I
| think it's because the censorship (in some cases for
| clearly political reasons) actually makes the conspiracy
| theories seem _more_ credible, because if they were wrong
| why would anybody waste effort trying to fight it? (I 'm
| not arguing that's solid reasoning, only that it seems a
| reasonable argument to most people). Once you can't trust
| that most people operate in good faith, you have to
| question everybody's motives with extreme skepticism.
| Combine that with human nature to look for
| patterns/explanations in everything and you get a mess.
| avalys wrote:
| I think these comments get downvoted for the same reason
| that comments that "don't fit the official narrative"
| about the moon landings would get downvoted.
| kube-system wrote:
| They're red herrings which have been discussed ad
| nauseam. 9/11 is the most analyzed event in modern
| history; we know what happened.
| jallen_dot_dev wrote:
| Perhaps they didn't rerun the weird takes because as new
| information came in and everyone started getting a better
| picture of what happened, they stopped airing info that
| was apparently wrong. There is always confusion and wrong
| reports when events are unfolding.
|
| I don't know what Bin Laden flights, Guantanamo, or the
| following wars have to do with the pentagon on 9/11 or
| footage of it. Honestly, I don't know what point you're
| trying to make.
| flycaliguy wrote:
| It seems perfectly plausible to me that releasing video of
| the Pentagon being struck by terrorists would only serve to
| glorify the events that day. At the end of the day those
| agencies did their job and secured any footage. This gave
| the government the opportunity to decide what is released
| to the public and I think they made the right choice
| considering the promotional value of it to the terrorists.
| Invictus0 wrote:
| That's not how this works. Classified material is not
| classified because it would make people feel some type of
| way. It's because the release of the material would have
| some effect on national security. With the end of the war
| in Afghanistan, there is no clear reason in my mind why
| the declassification of any existing video would be a
| cause of concern.
|
| https://www.archives.gov/files/isoo/training/training-
| reason...
|
| https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-
| action...
| [deleted]
| throwrqX wrote:
| "National Security" as a term is broad enough to include
| anything. Case on point I see "national security" given
| as a reason why economic espionage is okay or why the
| government won't release things that are embarrassing to
| politicians because it can effect how foreign leaders
| view them and that's "national security".
| GeorgeTirebiter wrote:
| e.g. Why are there still secret documents on the JFK
| assassination?
| [deleted]
| pkulak wrote:
| Is there any video of the first NYC plane? If there was a
| second Pentagon plane, I'm sure we'd have that.
| ceejayoz wrote:
| There is, yes.
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St7ny38gLp4
| tofof wrote:
| There is helicopter footage that shows an object apparently
| accelerating outward from the highway. This video regularly
| gets taken down and is often posted mirrored to defeat
| automatic screening.
|
| https://imgur.com/gallery/VMe3tqF/
|
| https://youtu.be/Qz9OdOs6La4?t=241
| freedomben wrote:
| Why does it regularly get taken down? Any downvoters care
| to share? Like is it doctored or something?
| pinephoneguy wrote:
| NoSorryCannot wrote:
| Honest question, what law would enable them to forcibly
| do that? Or was it a little extralegal?
| moron4hire wrote:
| The road patterns were different back then (they changed
| them specifically because of 9/11), but if you've ever been
| near the Pentagon, it's pretty obvious: it's a low
| building, nestled in a bowl-like land formation, there
| aren't many good places to sit and "observe" it, and it's
| surrounded by highways. Most of the time, if you are
| looking at the Pentagon, you are probably also driving.
| kube-system wrote:
| And this is 2001, so any tourists driving on those
| highways were almost certainly holding paper maps and
| arguing intensely with their passenger about which exit
| to take to get into DC. They weren't holding their analog
| camcorders.
| drtrq wrote:
| Shock Doctrine is the only explanation of 9/11
|
| the Documentary: https://youtu.be/B3B5qt6gsxY
|
| And the book by Naomi Klein https://naomiklein.org/the-shock-
| doctrine/
| joelbondurant4 wrote:
| pcdoodle wrote:
| Same pre impact flash is seen in this one as well (6:00).
| kungito wrote:
| is there anything new?
| jack_newmann wrote:
| The footage? Yes
|
| The attack? No
| simmo9000 wrote:
| abel_ wrote:
| While progress has been made in computer vision, that progress
| has been relatively narrow up until now, and I think the
| activation energy required to produce this level of quality
| would be more than it's worth. As others have mentioned, new
| footage comes out all the time.
|
| However, I agree with the sentiment. Someday, we will have a
| massive foundation model capable of producing any video with a
| little conditioning on text. But we don't currently have such a
| model. In some sense, we're still in the era of easily
| verifiable video, and this era might end someday soon.
| hackernewds wrote:
| what is the two minute papers connection here?
| simmo9000 wrote:
| hwers wrote:
| Are you a bot?
| rendall wrote:
| Back in 2001/2002, I went to a series of seminars hosted by the
| artist Natalie Jeremijenko. One of the presenting artists had
| footage of the Pentagon attack, taken from a camera he had set up
| on the Potomac River. He refused to give anyone else access to
| it. "I want to think about how to best present this footage." he
| said. I still have never seen that footage again to this day, and
| the selfishness makes me angry whenever I think of it.
| napier wrote:
| Asked them about it recently? If not, please do.
| pinephoneguy wrote:
| barneygale wrote:
| If the CIA/FBI wanted to make people think a plane had hit
| the pentagon, why wouldn't they just use a plane? This
| conspiracy theory is one of the dumbest.
| etherael wrote:
| Gov confiscated all footage of incident is not the same
| thing as because incident nature was x and they were
| conducting a coverup.
|
| (I have no idea if the footage was confiscated from all
| people, only that the footage from certain fixed nearby
| locations was confiscated, and have never seen any proof
| this was done because it was a coverup attempt.)
| w0de0 wrote:
| The frustration got the better of you, and so here you
| are responding in anger to foolishness on the internet!
|
| No matter, happens to all of us. Have some relevant
| comedy as a salve: https://youtu.be/5muY64Oyp10
| GnarfGnarf wrote:
| Could simply have been a hoax, to attract attention. (Having
| the video, I mean, not the attack).
| ectopod wrote:
| What's the hoax? OP has seen the video.
| GnarfGnarf wrote:
| The video may be fake. Jeremijenko, the "artist", withholds
| it to avoid detailed examination.
| spiderice wrote:
| Have they? It isn't clear to me if they've seen it or just
| heard that it exists
| [deleted]
| CincinnatiMan wrote:
| > I still have never seen that footage again to this day
|
| I took the "again" to mean they've seen it atleast once.
| [deleted]
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