[HN Gopher] Factorio Friday Facts: Steam Deck, Ghost bugs, Docs ...
___________________________________________________________________
Factorio Friday Facts: Steam Deck, Ghost bugs, Docs improvements
Author : picture
Score : 82 points
Date : 2022-02-25 16:01 UTC (7 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.factorio.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.factorio.com)
| CGamesPlay wrote:
| Is there any reason to make a line of inserters instead of using
| belts?
| omnipath wrote:
| You're out of belts.
| Buttons840 wrote:
| I can tell you've made some quality spaghetti in your time
| Uily wrote:
| burner-inserter loops aren't a bad way to dispose of wooden
| power poles after refactoring your early base. I usually just
| set up a logistics chest to request some and then feed them
| into the burner inserter loop.
| scrumbledober wrote:
| not a whole line like that, but there are some situations where
| you'd want two of them spaced that way and it doesn't really
| make sense to put a belt or chest in between them. I'd assume
| the image was mostly just to illustrate that that layout could
| be disrupted with a ghost.
| dhagz wrote:
| Only reason I have is if you're doing a no-belts run.
| castratikron wrote:
| Seems natural to lock the cursor to the map grid (think: Advance
| Wars). But that is probably easier said than done.
| DizzyDoo wrote:
| A naive grid-lock would not quite be good enough for Factorio.
| Yes, there is a grid, but there's also a grid within that grid,
| if you mine a rock for instance there will be four pieces of
| rock lying within that one grid cell, and perhaps you want to
| pick up just one of them. Then there's combat which doesn't
| take place on the grid, sometimes you want to shoot a shell or
| a rocket between a few biters which don't neatly fit in any one
| cell, and they're moving quite quickly that you need a mouse
| pointer's freedom you shoot where you want.
|
| It's an interesting problem, I'm looking forward to how they
| approach the proper controller support later in the year. I
| suspect Keyboard + Mouse will always be the most comfortable
| way to play though.
| jamesgeck0 wrote:
| Terraria gets around this with a dual mode aiming system.
| Holding the button to mine without holding a direction
| methodically selects each nearby mineable tile in your field
| of view one by one, but holding the joystick to aim lets you
| target freely.
| jugg1es wrote:
| Some of the input interactions in Factorio are hard enough even
| with a mouse, particularly if you are trying to find an item to
| build that you haven't built since early-game. It's hard to
| imagine any sort of controller-based input working without
| significant changes to the UI.
| TillE wrote:
| There are lots of games with basically the same interface
| requirements (eg, Minecraft), and they work with a gamepad,
| it's just very clunky.
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| Factorio has a sort of almost RTS aspect to it as well. You
| sometimes need to build fast when the zer... uh, biters are
| gnawing at your base.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| It isn't just the input controls. I cannot imagine playing on a
| such a small screen. I play facotrio on a single 4k and
| regularly want more real estate. If there ever was a game with
| a legit need for 8/12k it is factorio.
| G4E wrote:
| The steam deck has a touchscreen thought. So I wouldn't be
| surprised if those menus were easier to navigate than with a
| mouse alone ?
| partomniscient wrote:
| Did you see him try to close the research window near the
| start of the video? It only took him 4 or 5 attempts.
|
| Touchscreen interfaces have some advantages, but precision is
| not one of them. They need to be explictly designed for.
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| Touch screens are comically inaccurate compared to a mouse
| unless you have a conical fingertip (dunno, from a freak
| pencil sharpener accident?)
| Duralias wrote:
| That is where the trackpads come in, with a bit of practice
| they can replace the need for a mouse in any game, be it
| strategy or fps.
|
| Replacing the keyboard isn't as easy though.
| eckmLJE wrote:
| I was hopeful the track pad on the steam controller could
| replace a mouse for anything requiring fast and precise
| aim/controlling (FPS/RTS), but I was sadly disappointed. For
| a casual or non-real-time gaming, sure. But if you are trying
| to perform, nothing yet compares to a mouse. I would love
| some new controller you could use from the couch that
| competes with the mouse. Maybe some future motion controllers
| will get there.
| jamesgeck0 wrote:
| I played a fair amount of Overwatch on the old Steam
| Controller with a combination of touchpad and gyroscope
| controls. Touchpad for wide sweeping movements and gyro for
| fine tuning the aim. It's not quite as accurate as a mouse,
| and it does take some getting used to, but I found I was
| much more competitive with it than I was with a regular
| gamepad, especially when playing games like Overwatch that
| don't support aim-assist on controllers.
|
| For slower strategy games, using the left touchpad for
| fast/imprecise mouse movement (or map movement) and the
| right touchpad for slow/fine tuned mouse movement is also
| decent. I don't know that I'd want to play an RTS that way,
| though.
| Jyaif wrote:
| > even though we never take part in sales or bundles
|
| That's one reason I didn't hesitate to purchase it.
| fossebooker wrote:
| Years ago, I asked on the forums[0] if they'd have it on GOG
| since I wanted a DRM Free copy that I could pull updates from.
| They said, essentially, "not in the near future" so I bought it
| on a humblebundle ... I got a Steam key though.
|
| A few weeks later it came out on GOG and I contacted about
| getting a key and they said, just buy it again.
|
| I also haven't seen it on GOG-connect to make it available to
| Steam key holders.
|
| So my experience definitely conflicts with their "early
| purchaser" customer-appreciation rationale for this.
|
| [0]: https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=189466#p189466
| jamesgeck0 wrote:
| Not that Wube Software handled this well, but you're better
| off not using GOG Galaxy for updates. It's had a 0-day
| privilege escalation vulnerability for over two years. GOG
| tried to pull a fast one on the security researcher who
| reported it and has downplayed the severity of the issue.
| They've left their customers vulnerable for so long that
| their incompetence is effectively indistinguishable from
| malice.
|
| https://wccftech.com/gog-has-had-a-severe-internal-
| vulnerabi...
| fossebooker wrote:
| Thanks for the info and yeah, this adds another brick to
| the GOG pile of shame unfortunately.
|
| GOG has been very lethargic to the point of straight-up
| dishonesty regarding their plan for Linux support for
| games, galaxy and their downloader. Their rollout of Galaxy
| has been panned and definition of what qualifies as DRM-
| free has been eroded over time.
|
| I understand the disparity of resources, but steam has done
| much more lately to embrace Linux and their community than
| GOG and gaping security holes is just unacceptable.
|
| A lot has changed since 2016.
| WithinReason wrote:
| That's the reason I never purchased it
| marcofiset wrote:
| You are missing out. This game is worth way more than what it
| sells for.
| atlantas wrote:
| Why? It's already arguably underpriced at $30.
| lvass wrote:
| I paid around $10 in brazilian Steam.
| WithinReason wrote:
| I never before paid this much for a game
| donpott wrote:
| This thread caused me to look up why they don't do sales. I
| was a bit frustrated at first; but I must say, after reading
| their rationale, that now I'm kinda convinced.
|
| To quote one of the Factorio mods/staff:
|
| > It isn't about visibility or sales, its about respecting
| the players who have already purchased the game. We don't
| want to reward the people who hold off on buying the game,
| the game is a price we find reasonable, and this is the deal.
| If you think it is priced too high, then it is your choice to
| not purchase, and we hope that with enough time, and extra
| development, we will be able to convince you of its value.
|
| Sources:
|
| https://forums.factorio.com/viewtopic.php?p=159626#p159626
|
| https://www.factorio.com/blog/post/fff-140
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comments/8stbnl/psa_factor.
| ..
| Gareth321 wrote:
| I don't buy it. These developers don't discount because
| they don't have to. They're not doing it out of some
| altruistic sense of duty to not "reward people who hold
| off." That's silly and I honestly can't believe that you
| believe that.
| ddtaylor wrote:
| Early when the Steam Deck was revealed they showed a promotional
| image with Factorio being played on it. It made me think that,
| yeah, the game does run great on Linux and I'm sure the console
| can handle it, but would you really want to play with that kind
| of an input device? I wasn't thinking about it much and a few
| weeks later I was playing Factorio and noticed how atrocious
| doing half the things I was doing would be with a controller-like
| interface.
| chucky_z wrote:
| Steam Deck has the little "pads" from the Steam Controller,
| those make playing games with mouse-based controls a joy with a
| handheld device (with some adjustment period).
|
| They show this in the video! I actually almost wish the initial
| Steam Controller had these flat pads instead of the concave
| circles, it looks like it's going to be a straight up
| improvement.
| colpabar wrote:
| Have you used them though? I have two steam controllers and
| the "mouse circles" are pretty finicky. I'm sure the pads on
| the deck will be better, but I still doubt they will be
| precise enough for a game like factorio.
|
| I hope I'm wrong - I LOVE factorio and will definitely start
| a new save when the deck comes out. But even playing on my
| macbook touchpad, I wished I had a real mouse.
| smoldesu wrote:
| For all the problems the Steam controller had, trackpad
| precision was the one thing I never really heard people
| complain about. For this sort of game, I think it would be
| a very effective compromise to get it working on-the-go.
|
| Of course, it's still just a computer at the end of the
| day. If you want to pair a Bluetooth mouse and play that
| way, that's your prerogative; I imagine that most people
| would be contented to use the touchpads out of convenience
| though.
| chucky_z wrote:
| The 'finicky' is from the default settings meant to work in
| as many games as possible. (Almost) Every game I tried I
| found some community-maintained controller profile that had
| near-perfect settings. I really love Steam's community. :D
| fartcannon wrote:
| Steam Controllers are my primary controllers. Precision is
| adjustable. They're super effective, in my opinion. From
| the sounds of it, you just prefer mice. But there's nothing
| finicky about them.
| willis936 wrote:
| There are many non-essential keyboard macros and a good few
| that are essential.
|
| A controller interface would have to break these macros up
| into layered directional menus. Nothing ground-breaking, but
| it is a different learning curve.
| kroltan wrote:
| Well, people successfully play Factorio on trackpads, which the
| Deck has aplenty, as the two pads below the sticks, as well as
| having a touchscreen.
|
| So I suppose it's better than if you were playing it on Xbox or
| something like that.
| nisegami wrote:
| What makes the Steam Deck so much more versatile IMO are the
| touch pads. I use the touchpads on my Steam Controller to play
| a few games that are 95% mouse-driven (simulators for a trading
| card game) and they're a joy.
| justsid wrote:
| I too have had a Steam Deck dev kit since pretty early on and
| have put an ungodly amount of time into it on there. It works
| really well, like the article already mentioned. Steam Input set
| up is pretty easy and carries you all of the way through the
| game. Actually, to completely side step Factorio, Steam Input is
| an amazing tool on the Deck. It makes it incredibly easy to
| coerce just about any game out there to play ball with the Deck
| controller scheme. Super pumped for the device to come out into
| general hands now
| croes wrote:
| OT: is the link at the top for donations for the Ukrainian red
| cross legit?
|
| https://donate.redcrossredcrescent.org/ua/donate/~my-donatio...
|
| because the ifrc website has also campaign for Ukraine
|
| https://donation.ifrc.org/?campaign=e8952a8a-5096-ec11-a2db-...
| proto_lambda wrote:
| Huh, that is a bit suspect. https://redcrossredcrescent.org/
| refuses connection, the HTTP version just redirects to the IFRC
| homepage. The only backlink to that domain I can find is this
| tweet, and I have no idea if the twitter account is legt:
| https://twitter.com/RedCrossUkraine/status/14969278216163205...
| patmcc wrote:
| I enjoy Factorio, I think it's a lovely game, and I'd be happy to
| support the creators for that alone. But what really sets them
| apart is these regular Friday blog posts - being willing to
| include the community in what's happening in the business,
| development, documentation, modding, etc. of the game is so
| refreshing. I love it.
|
| I'll be buying the expansion on their word alone that it's ready
| and for sale. If they develop another game I'll buy that too.
| willis936 wrote:
| The Steam Deck looks pretty cool, but I recently starting using
| an existing Valve product that nullifies most use cases for me:
| Steam Link.
|
| If you want a Steam Deck you should first try Steam Link. If it
| doesn't meet your needs (gaming requiring internet, mobile
| internet adding too much latency), then the Steam Deck becomes
| attractive. I hadn't considered this when evaluating the value of
| the Steam Deck and I suspect most others haven't either (judging
| from the lack of Steam Link coverage).
| Gareth321 wrote:
| Makes total sense but my use case - and from what I can tell,
| this is very common - is sitting on the couch with the wife in
| the evenings while she's/we're watching something. There is a
| couple of hours after the kids go to bed where I _could_ spend
| that time in the office, or I could be on the couch with her. I
| don 't know if it's a woman thing or just my wife, but she
| definitely prefers I'm close to her, even if I'm on my phone.
| Since I like making her happy, I don't spend a lot of time on
| my PC playing games anymore. The Deck will allow me to play
| games again, and I'm really looking forward to it. Throw in the
| ability to play while on vacation/traveling/in bed, plus the
| cool features like instant resume from sleep (which my PC
| definitely cannot compete with) and gyroscopes, and I can't
| remember being this excited about a new gadget.
| willis936 wrote:
| This is my primary use case too. I've started using my phone
| with steam link and an xbox controller to play some of the
| bigger single player titles I've been sitting on for the past
| few years (such as Horizon Zero Dawn, Witcher 3, and
| Cyberpunk 2077).
|
| My 4790k is long in the tooth but it can lock 30 fps in any
| game. Coupled with a 3070 I can stream 1080p30 at max
| graphics settings on any of these games and I don't need to
| buy another computer to do it.
| JonLim wrote:
| As someone who uses (or used to use) Steam Link to be able to
| use a Windows PC headlessly to game from a macOS machine, I
| think it's a really compelling argument to consider it before
| considering a Steam Deck.
|
| However, I'm viewing Steam Deck as a mobile gaming machine,
| which might be replacing my current Windows gaming laptop, and
| I can leave my Windows gaming laptop at home (or replace with a
| tower altogether). And if Steam Link works with a Steam Deck, I
| can have the best of both worlds (mobile gaming + regular
| gaming via Steam Link)!
| thesandlord wrote:
| I can see a little overlap between the two, but how are they
| competing with each other?
|
| With Link, you need a gaming PC running 24/7, and then you need
| another device and a controller to go with it. The Deck is all
| in one.
|
| It's like Stadia vs a Nintendo Switch. Overlapping for sure,
| but pretty different overall.
| willis936 wrote:
| If you already use Steam then you already have a PC and
| according to the steam hardware survey you very likely have a
| more powerful GPU than what is in the steam deck.
|
| Nearly everyone has a smartphone and video streaming box on a
| TV. So to get all the way there you need a controller.
|
| Stadia vs. Switch is apt, except with negligible latency in
| the home (TV sharing is a common issue in couples/families
| today) and without needing to pay a subscription for things
| you own. Also, the graphics quality is going to be _much_
| better than what Stadia or Deck can deliver if you use Link
| with any decent gaming rig. Also I don 't invite any google
| venture into my life because it's spyware _and_ vaporware.
|
| https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/
| kobalsky wrote:
| > If you already use Steam then you already have a PC
|
| that's probably not their target demographic.
| willis936 wrote:
| I agree, but I think many on HN and the excited hardware
| junkies (which there will be plenty of for this niche
| boutique product) could gain some value without having
| another computer through existing, free, undermarketed
| software.
___________________________________________________________________
(page generated 2022-02-25 23:02 UTC)