[HN Gopher] Radiation spikes in Chernobyl
___________________________________________________________________
Radiation spikes in Chernobyl
Author : stiray
Score : 260 points
Date : 2022-02-25 12:45 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (twitter.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (twitter.com)
| pvaldes wrote:
| So we will have another massive die-off of endangered saiga
| antelopes this spring.
| overflyer wrote:
| perihelions wrote:
| Tangentially, if you appreciate being able to read raw,
| unfiltered OSINT like OP (@OAlexanderDK) dug up, you'd be
| interested to know Twitter mistakenly suspended his account twice
| in the past three days [0] -- one among a large number of
| legitimate OSINT people covering Ukraine. The existence of this
| kind of HN thread is fragile.
|
| You can also read Twitter Site Integrity's apology and response
| [1], or independent reporting about this [2].
|
| [0] https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1496513006657839108
|
| [1] https://twitter.com/yoyoel/status/1496544199478583297
|
| [2]
| https://www.ft.com/content/5b23938b-49b8-426f-97af-640ba40c9... (
| _" Twitter admits it mistakenly removed Ukraine open-source
| intelligence accounts"_)
| ComputerGuru wrote:
| > You can also read Twitter Site Integrity's apology and
| response [1]
|
| What apology? Vague explanation but no even "sorry for the
| inconvenience" at the link you shared:
|
| _We're closely investigating -- but mass reporting is not a
| factor here._
|
| _A small number of human errors as part of our work to
| proactively address manipulated media resulted in these
| incorrect enforcements. We're fixing the issue and reaching out
| directly to the affected folks._
| perihelions wrote:
| The "reaching out" part included directed apologies. (Is this
| really the important part?)
|
| https://twitter.com/OAlexanderDK/status/1496452673008279552
| ("...we apologize for any inconvenience this may have
| caused")
| ComputerGuru wrote:
| > Is this really the important part?
|
| I'm not sure if I'm understanding you right, but if you're
| asking whether I think it's important that twitter either
| apologized or at least "apologized," I do indeed.
|
| The major social media institutions have touted themselves
| to be champions of getting the word out and a replacement
| for all other avenues of communication, leading to the
| demise of self-hosted (or, at least, self-moderated) blogs,
| websites, irc, regular discussion forums, and everything in
| between. But they continually screw up this responsibility
| at the times when it matters most, and we have to hold them
| accountable for this. Look at how all of Facebook,
| Instagram, and Twitter accidentally blocked OSINT coming
| out of Israel and Palestine after similarly being DDOS'd
| with "report this tweet/image/post" from either employees
| of intelligence agencies, paid shills, or just "the other
| side" to hide the ground truths.
|
| It's not OK for this to happen. It keeps happening. The
| lack of remorse indicates that regardless of intention or
| motive, there's no real vested interest in actually keeping
| avenues of grassroot journalism open on these platforms
| (it's probably not the kind of content that makes them
| muchmoney, so no surprise there).
|
| In this case, there was no public apology (or "apology") -
| the "sorry for the inconvenience" was in one-on-one
| correspondence with the blocked OSINT account.
| capableweb wrote:
| To add to the list of unfiltered OSINT straight from
| Ukraine/Russia, Telegram channels/groups are invaluable (but
| treat everything as unconfirmed rumors until confirmed
| elsewhere):
|
| - https://t.me/uniannet
|
| - https://t.me/ukrpravda_news
|
| - https://t.me/istorijaoruzija
|
| - https://t.me/dumskaya_net
|
| - https://t.me/idelator
|
| Beware, some of these are literally Russian propaganda, so
| again, don't take anything being said/shared as truth until
| verified elsewhere.
|
| In case you need a translation service for the channels, I
| wrote a Telegram bot that translates anything you send to
| it/forward to it to English (via DeepL, so higher quality
| translations than Google Translate), accessible here:
|
| - https://t.me/transtel_bot - Source:
| https://codeberg.org/CapableWeb/transtel
| reitanqild wrote:
| lostlogin wrote:
| > I understand why my dad urged me to not go voluntarily to
| artillery.
|
| Can you explain this further?
| reitanqild wrote:
| He told me that armour is not protection.
|
| It is instead a death trap:
|
| It is loud, valuable for the enemy and if they shoot at
| you using shape charges you'll be roasted alive.
| isoprophlex wrote:
| What the actual flying fuck happened there, that's
| intensely horrible. War is hell.
| reitanqild wrote:
| What happened is Russian soldiers, either cocky or
| terrified depending on how much they knew came driving
| down the road and suddenly the entire thing shook
| violently,
|
| (the rest is my best understanding based on things I
| learned years ago):
|
| temperature rose quickly to become unbearable as the
| missile stuck the the armour and the warhead sent a
| payload of molten brass (or something) through the solid
| metal. As the poor blokes try to escape it seems like
| something more has gone ablaze as you can see they are
| frozen while trying to run.
|
| Russians going into Ukraine should just as well put
| sunflower seeds in all pockets and write "this side up"
| on the front, then at least the grave can look nice in
| the summer.
|
| It's insanely ugly and I have tears in my eyes even if
| this is the best outcome.
|
| Edit: read for yourself, seems the Javelin missile kills
| the tank crew somewhat more humanely by just sending a
| multi atmospheric shockwave into the box instead of how
| these seems to have had time to fear and try in vain to
| escape.
|
| Edit 2: My bigger point is, if you can somehow avoid
| being part of the attempted invasion of Ukraine it might
| be worth going some distance to avoid it.
| User23 wrote:
| > temperature rose quickly to become unbearable as the
| missile stuck the the armour and the warhead sent a
| payload of molten brass (or something) through the solid
| metal. As the poor blokes try to escape it seems like
| something more has gone ablaze as you can see they are
| frozen while trying to run.
|
| Sounds like a shaped charge[1]. I know a man who was
| drafted during the Korean War and at first he thought it
| would be lovely to be in a tank protected from harm. Then
| he got trained on using shaped charges on old German
| panzers and decided he was happy to be infantry.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaped_charge
| reitanqild wrote:
| Exactly. I had forgotten the name. And yes, the man you
| knew probably had learned the same lessons as my dad.
|
| Again, this was years ago and I was never equipped with
| one of these but based on what little I learned and what
| I see it seems those poor guys where roasted, not knocked
| dead.
| KarlKemp wrote:
| I fail to see what purpose posting gore such as this
| serves. Nobody needs proof that war is bad.
| dijonman2 wrote:
| It needs to be shared and break through cognitive
| dissonance.
|
| So many people sit comfortably in their chairs at home
| opining and spew thoughts online without any real idea of
| how bad things really are.
|
| This is real life.
| reitanqild wrote:
| I'm afraid a lot of people have no clue. Their only idea
| is action movies and FPS games.
|
| I don't have much more myself.
|
| But I do care deeply and this - while tragic for the poor
| souls and their poor parents back in Russia - isn't that
| bad.
| jazzyjackson wrote:
| > don't take anything being said/shared as truth until
| verified elsewhere.
|
| Then what is the possible value of following it? I spent an
| hour or so trying to get updates on twitter and spent the
| whole time flagging the same fake videos posted over and
| over.
| mzs wrote:
| I support OSINT but this particular person has repeatedly been
| wrong and alarmist - plus he toots his horn for being right
| even when he's wrong:
|
| https://twitter.com/badc0fee/status/1495914223427276804
|
| This particular case is likely armor kicking-up radioactive
| dust, and since the ground is wet it's not much of a problem:
|
| https://twitter.com/badc0fee/status/1497253041854025728
| BlinkenBlinken wrote:
| nuccy wrote:
| Russians came from Belarus and with their tanks disrupt the
| radioactive soil and create dust [1]. The internal systems and
| the reactors themselves are in nominal state without changes.
|
| 1. https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine-says-chernobyl-
| radia...
| awb wrote:
| What are the environmental / health risks of this radioactive
| dust getting kicked up?
| deutschewelle wrote:
| swamp40 wrote:
| >> if Russia is kicked off SWIFT, it would be removing any
| sort of restraint they've displayed so far.
|
| I don't think they care much about that. They have already
| assumed they would be. There are several other options for
| them. It most hurts Europe and their investments/payments,
| as well as our intelligence tracking of high net worth
| individuals.
| leephillips wrote:
| > There is blame on both sides
|
| Say what now?
|
| > One thing I understand about Western European culture is
| that they will never tell you no outright as it is rude to
| do so.
|
| Generally speaking, no, this is not one thing you
| understand about W. E. culture.
| chefkoch wrote:
| You have never been to western europe?
|
| Berlin is famous for this.
| leephillips wrote:
| Guess I encountered the wrong German ladies, then.
| deutschewelle wrote:
| and HN is the epitome of Dunning-Kruger effect
| tejohnso wrote:
| > Japan is the worst outright making you question even a
| solid yes mixed with non-subtle and impossible to read
| vocal/posture
|
| How can it be both non-subtle and yet impossible to read?
| traviscj wrote:
| Seems like GP means it's noticeable but difficult to
| interpret?
| iSnow wrote:
| Denvercoder9 wrote:
| > One thing I understand about Western European culture is
| that they will never tell you no outright as it is rude to
| do so. Any sort of hesitancy is to be construed as a no and
| unlike America/East Germany or Scandinavian countries tough
| to get a straight answer most of the time.
|
| This is a ridiculous overgeneralization. If you compare
| e.g. the Dutch with the Southern U.S., you'll find the
| Dutch are much more eager to directly tell it how it is.
| deutschewelle wrote:
| well as long as the contrasts are obvious, generalizing
| was the intent
| nuccy wrote:
| Unless there is a strong wind it likely will settle back,
| especially since it is a thick forest around the station.
| ornornor wrote:
| I don't know about where you live but here in Europe there
| have been storms warnings with pretty strong winds in the
| last week. Not a meteorologist and I have no idea how that
| would impact radioactive dust spread.
| awb wrote:
| Are the prevailing winds are typically West to East?
| ornornor wrote:
| According to https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/history
| climate/weathera... they're blowing from the West to the
| East so it's blowing from Europe towards Pripyat, so at
| least there is that.
| yumraj wrote:
| So, the Russian soldiers are all probably breathing this dust
| and their equipment will spread it to where ever they deploy in
| Ukraine? That doesn't sound good at all.
| pjc50 wrote:
| There's an invasion on, nothing about it sounds good!
| petters wrote:
| Compared to the other things the soldiers will likely be
| doing, this sounds like an irrelevant problem.
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| Considering that they're mostly just passing by, and that the
| levels are not really high, it won't be that bad.
|
| I didn't do the math, but the radiation levels for driving
| past there, or staying there for a day or two, would probably
| be very low, and comparable to a lot of other stuff we do
| without thinking (plane rides, xrays etc.)
| DominikD wrote:
| They aren't just passing by. There's an ongoing fight for
| the control over this terrain. And, in the unlikely event
| of Russian troops retreating, I wouldn't put past Russia
| bombing it.
| contravariant wrote:
| The problem with breathing the stuff is that it may stay
| with you for quite a while. This isn't the worst thing with
| gamma radiation since most radiation will just pass through
| the body, but beta or alpha radiation could be worrying if
| that's still present (I don't know if it is, but disturbing
| the ground in Chernobyl and breathing the resulting dust
| doesn't sound like the safest way to find out)
| temac wrote:
| They will breath the dust and get some internal radiation
| though. Not really a problem for the others if they move
| after that, but not very good for them.
| connordoner wrote:
| One might argue that's a price you pay when murdering
| innocent civilians in land that isn't yours, no?
| yumraj wrote:
| Yeah, but Putin's not the one breathing it - the foot
| soldiers are.
| belval wrote:
| Not to be a apologist of what Russia is doing (really
| really against the current invasion/occupation) but from
| what we've seen around social media, it's not clear that
| the actual soldiers on the ground understand that they
| aren't "liberating" the Ukrainians from actual Nazis.
| They are fed misinformation on a daily basis and at least
| some of them see themselves as the "good guys".
|
| It does not excuse anything really, but I wouldn't wish
| them pulmonary cancer.
| mdoms wrote:
| > Not to be a apologist of what Russia is doing [...
| apologism]
| ajsnigrutin wrote:
| Eh, the soldiers know... it's for power and against nato,
| and to get a bit more of the land.
|
| Look at every past conflict, every american soldier in
| iraq knew, that they were going in to get the oil,
| everything else was just propaganda for the taxpayers.
| mywittyname wrote:
| It's typical that troops are kept in the dark about
| mission details.
| Eduard wrote:
| According to
| https://www.timeanddate.com/weather/ukraine/chernobyl/histor...
| , there was light rain in Chernobyl since Thursday. This should
| reduce the dust hypothesis, no?
| ch4s3 wrote:
| It depends on the particular isotopes, most aren't water
| soluble but some would precipitate out of the air on rain. So
| it's hard to say.
| G3rn0ti wrote:
| The thing with radioactivity is: it may be invisible but it is
| luckily very well detectable. Gamma ray spectrometers are
| _super_ sensitive but that does not mean the detected levels
| are actually posing a threat to humans.
| avs733 wrote:
| nice of them to leave breadcrumbs everywhere.
| [deleted]
| sschueller wrote:
| What strategic purpose would taking Chernobyl have other than
| maybe securing the site and preventing someone from blowing a
| hole in the sarcophagus?
| eouw0o83hf wrote:
| The Chernobyl complex still houses a key power distribution
| center for the Ukrainian power grid, so it does hold
| strategic/logistical importance.
| ornornor wrote:
| Isn't it still generating electricity (with the reactors that
| didn't melt down) for the region despite everything? I guess as
| an invader, you'd want to control the power plant.
| bluGill wrote:
| That was shutdown a few years ago. Though I suspect that
| there is other infrastructure still in/through the area.
| adrianmonk wrote:
| Wikipedia says all the other reactors were used for some time
| after the accident, some for quite some time, but now all
| reactors at the site have been shut down.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant#.
| ..
| keewee7 wrote:
| The posh ruling elite in Moscow and StP want to deceive the
| West into thinking Russia is a mad dog that is too dangerous to
| bother. They want to scare the West from imposing total
| economic sanctions. They want to scare the West from supplying
| the Ukrainian resistance.
|
| Always remember Russia is a rational actor no matter how much
| Putin and Lavrov are fear mongering about sanctions leading to
| a nuclear WW3. The French foreign minister was the first to
| call out their bluff yesterday. I hope more Western leaders
| will follow.
| AnotherGoodName wrote:
| I'd point out that being irrational in order to scare the
| west into thinking you're irrational is still an example of
| being irrational.
|
| We can only call their bluff so many times before they feel
| the need to demonstrate that they are indeed willing to be
| crazy. Which they've done here with this whole Ukraine
| situation.
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| I wish I knew how to tell.
|
| In game theory there are games that the crazy person wins.
| "Chicken" is the most famous. If both players are crazy, both
| lose. Unfortunately the discipline offers no way of
| diagnosing insanity. Committing to what looks like a crazy
| plan can be rational. Putin's speech on Monday certainly
| seemed unhinged, but he might be a good actor.
| clord wrote:
| It is "high ground" in the sense that it can not be safely
| assailed.
| tokamak wrote:
| Building fear in the West.
| adventured wrote:
| That removes fear in the West in the context of battles
| raging around it. Russia has enormous nuclear capabilities,
| they don't need Chernobyl for anything other than to secure
| it from being used against them in some manner (whether stunt
| propaganda, or some kind of radiation threat). Chernobyl
| being secured by Russia relieves that risk for the West.
| newsclues wrote:
| You hold a position to launch attacks from that are hard to
| counter attack.
|
| Setup your artillery there and they can't just shell the area
| back out of fear of causing a nuclear disaster.
|
| IMO, the UN should have stepped in and taken control of the
| nuclear zone. There is a global risk here.
| yaris wrote:
| From some russian sources I've read that Chernobyl has been
| taken by Belarus soldiers, not russians. Because Belarus guys
| are sensitive to anything going on around Chernobyl and want
| to secure the site.
| jwandborg wrote:
| Isn't Belarus a dictatorship? If so, that's such a nice
| thing for a dictator to do.
| 8note wrote:
| Self interest. Belarus is one of the places that will
| feel the worst effects if anything happens at chernobyl
| newsclues wrote:
| The Russias attack Kiev came from Belarus.
|
| If Belarusian soldiers are involved that is a greater
| escalation that simply allowing Russia to invade another
| nation through their territory.
|
| Belarus being a Russian pawn at the moment anything is
| possible I guess
| dillondoyle wrote:
| I've read both reports that Belarusian military is in
| Ukraine, and also not. I can't find a legitimate top AP
| or similar report. The not sources seem to be repeating
| video put out from Russia so I wouldn't buy any side
| right now.
|
| Either way Belarus are defacto participants having done
| military drills, allowing tanks to move through their
| checkpoints into Russia.
|
| Regardless of whether they are or are not shooting right
| now, Belarus is 100% a pawn of Russia.
|
| That is the model Putin is trying to create in Ukraine.
| etiam wrote:
| Well put.
|
| Also, take the following with more than a grain of salt as
| I'm in no way really knowledgeable about such systems, but I
| would imagine both the area itself and temporarily disturbing
| it could be valuable as cover for nuclear weapons. One
| valuable tool for keeping track of them involves detecting
| and analyzing escaped isotope traces, and that's going to be
| harder to pick out and make sense of against that noisy
| background.
|
| As I understand it, nuclear weaponry still features
| prominently in Russia's military doctrine and it's worth
| noting that not only the military but Russia's whole
| citizenry have been trained and prepared for nuclear fallout,
| to a much greater extent than most nations seem to prioritize
| today.
|
| In addition to artillery I imagine for instance certain kinds
| of anti-air systems might be attractive to put on a site like
| that. Any further suggestions? They could have taken weeks to
| bring equipment in during the "military exercise" with
| Lukashenko's troops, so I guess few things are truly off the
| table.
| ClumsyPilot wrote:
| "could be valuable as cover for nuclear weapons"
|
| You can't hide a nuclear blast, we have satellites in orbit
| that detect the flash. Chech the vela incident -
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vela_incident
|
| "Russia's whole citizenry have been trained and prepared
| for nuclear fallout, to a much greater extent than most
| nations seem to prioritize today."
|
| That's not been the case for like 40 years
| UnlockedSecrets wrote:
| Chernobyl has a nice road that happens to be the shortest road
| between Kyiv the Ukraine capital and Russia. It also still has
| several active reactors only 1 of them melted down so that
| gives some strategic merit byt the road is 99% of it.
| jaywalk wrote:
| All reactors at Chernobyl have been shutdown since 2000. I
| have been amazed lately at how many people are unaware of
| this and think Chernobyl is still an operating nuclear power
| plant.
| netsharc wrote:
| A few weeks ago there's a cartoon where a guy sits in front
| a computer, and a speech bubble above him says "After 2
| years of being an epidemiological expert, I am now a geo-
| political expert."...
| vlovich123 wrote:
| I had the opposite perception and thought no reactors were
| active since the explosion.
| brimble wrote:
| It was long one of those "surprising fact" sorts of
| things.
| blablabla123 wrote:
| It's quite crazy though that they left it running for 14
| years after making the area around it inhabitable and
| causing fallout over whole Europe
| jaywalk wrote:
| It is pretty crazy. I would assume that they really
| needed the energy it was producing, although I admit that
| I don't have much further knowledge on the topic.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| altgoogler wrote:
| Take a look at the map. Chernobyl sits right on the border of
| Belarus, 130km to Kyiv on the western side of Dnieper river.
|
| They didn't take Chernobyl to take the reactor, they took it
| because it is extremely strategic if the goal is to assault
| Kyiv.
| Symmetry wrote:
| Also, it's a pretty unpopulated region and for that reason
| easier to move large forces through without trouble.
|
| And as a minor consideration, "We captured Chernobyl,
| protecting you good Russians from Ukranian nuclear threats"
| can be used as propaganda.
| seanw444 wrote:
| This is most certainly the correct answer. It's the shortest
| shortcut to the enemy's capital, despite being an exclusion
| zone.
| teeray wrote:
| It still has functioning reactors, so I'd imagine it's the same
| as the time-old military strategy: secure the supply lines. In
| modern times, electricity is vital to an enemy's defensive
| capabilities, so depriving them of it forces them to use
| generators with exhaustible fuel supplies.
| yabones wrote:
| The last reactor to shutdown was Unit 3 in December 2000. The
| whole facility has been undergoing cleanup and
| decommissioning since.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Power_Plant#.
| ..
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Drifting slightly off topic but it always seemed amazing to
| me that they kept the other reactors running even in the
| immediate aftermath of the Unit 4 explosion. Literally just
| down the hall, units 1, 2, and 3 ran for years afterwards.
| These were all manually controlled reactors that needed
| humans in the control room. No "working from home "on
| these.
| ols wrote:
| Unit 3 was just behind a wall, but 1 and 2 were quite far
| away (300-500m).
|
| They all had multiple serious incidents before and after
| the Chernobyl Disaster (1982 - partial core meltdown at
| #1, 1984 - incidents at #3 and #4, 1991 - fire at the
| turbine hall of #2). This was the most unsafe nuclear
| power plant in the whole USSR and the operators were in
| grave danger all the time.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| There are still 8 reactors of the same type (RBMK) active
| in Russia, though they have been retrofitted with changes
| to reduce the risk of another Chernobyl scenario.
| yabones wrote:
| I think the main reason they did that, was there was
| simply not money in Ukraine to build replacement power
| plants during the 90s after the USSR collapsed. They had
| no other option than to keep the plant running, or risk
| their entire grid collapsing. Very scary to think about
| having to make that decision.
| ineedasername wrote:
| Does someone have any insight on why Russia would expend
| resources taking this site? AFAIK it doesn't have anything useful
| or produce any power, except maybe the possibility that
| mishandling it could invoke the terror of regional disaster.
| (Unless that's the point?)
| [deleted]
| borgchick wrote:
| So are soldiers from both sides, either on foot or in vehicles in
| full radiation suits??? If not, aren't they at severe risk of
| radiation poisoning (in addition to rapid on set lead poisoning)?
|
| Not to mention if they continue past chernobyl into other
| regions, aren't they just gonna carry all that radiation with
| them?
| justinpombrio wrote:
| > If not, aren't they at severe risk of radiation poisoning?
|
| The Chernobyl exclusion zone extends miles outside the reactor,
| and gets tourists. I think the danger level is more like "don't
| live here or you'll get cancer" than "don't walk here or you'll
| die". And don't pick up sketchy looking things because they
| might give you cancer. Inside/near the sarcophagus is a
| different story (that I don't know, but assume is much worse).
|
| For example, the local wildlife is apparently doing better now
| than it was before the meltdown, because of lack of human
| activity. Not counting right next to the reactor where things
| died.
|
| Hopefully the Russian troops don't interfere with ongoing
| cleanup efforts...
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Exclusion_Zone#Radio...
| Accujack wrote:
| >aren't they at severe risk of radiation poisoning
|
| No. Radiation effects are based on time and exposure level, and
| even with dust kicked up they're not likely to spend enough
| time there that it makes them sick at all.
|
| Breathing in radioactive material from the dust is a bit more
| of a problem, but I'd expect they're wearing at least basic
| masks outdoors.
|
| No radiation suits, though.
|
| They'll carry some dust with them wherever they go, but like
| dust from anywhere else, it will slowly be dispersed on roads
| and in rain gutters. It's not "instant death dust" so while it
| will increase background radiation somewhat where it lands,
| unless someone eats or breathes a lot of it, they won't be
| affected.
|
| So, still not a good thing, but not something that's a huge
| problem compared to flying bullets.
|
| Now, if they punch a hole in the new safe confinement and a lot
| of water gets in, that will be much more of a problem.
| hereforphone wrote:
| Be careful out there S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
| skywal_l wrote:
| Could they be deploying nukes? Chernobyl would be the perfect
| cover.
| perihelions wrote:
| - _" Data from the automated radiation monitoring system of the
| exclusion zone, which is available online,"_
|
| Where is this official source?
| elil17 wrote:
| Not the source shown, but the Ukrainian Parliament has tweeted
| a similar radiation map:
| https://twitter.com/ua_parliament/status/1497108007863435279
| perihelions wrote:
| Yes, that's the tweet I quoted and am asking about.
|
| (It's the tweet that's double-RT'd by the tweet that's the HN
| submission).
| elil17 wrote:
| Oops, my bad. But I would think that most people would
| consider the Parliament of Ukraine an official source -
| surely they have direct access to radiation data?
| perihelions wrote:
| That doesn't terminate my curiosity.
| mtmail wrote:
| One of the screenshots is
| https://www.saveecobot.com/en/radiation-maps#11/51.3463/30.1...
| (related discussion
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30461521)
| perihelions wrote:
| This HN comment says archive.org never saw that radiation map
| before yesterday:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30462247
|
| I tried some further searches: Google didn't crawl the
| subdomain /en/radiation-maps before 2022, nor did the see the
| string "saveecobot.com/en/radiation-maps" anywhere on the
| internet.
| mtmail wrote:
| Their twitter account is 5 years old and has a screenshot
| showing they launched a radiation map 2020. https://twitter
| .com/SaveEcoBot/status/1339958096232329216/ph... So it
| didn't appear recently, maybe it was not popular enough to
| be indexed or linked to since launch (only 22 Twitter
| followers).
| perihelions wrote:
| I see the "gamma-radiation monitoring" on this
| 2020-timestamped tweet. Good find!
| capableweb wrote:
| > That site is suspect. The "radiation map" page did not
| seem to exist before today: https://web.archive.org/web/202
| 20224230609/https://www.savee...
|
| Just because it wasn't in the Archive.org's archive doesn't
| mean it didn't exist. Many websites are not indexed until
| someone links to them (shocker), and since no one really
| cared too much about Chernobyl until yesterday/today, it's
| not that weird that they (Archive.org) didn't come across
| the website until today.
| tastroder wrote:
| The other side is from www.srp.ecocentre.kiev.ua (currently
| down)
| dottedmag wrote:
| https://dazv.gov.ua/en -- UA state agency for management of the
| exclusion zone.
|
| Their online map seems to be... offline:
| http://www.srp.ecocentre.kiev.ua/MEDO-PS/index.php?lang=UKR
| capableweb wrote:
| Other comments mention some sources, here are two more:
|
| - EU-EC JRC - Radioactivity Environmental Monitoring -
| https://remap.jrc.ec.europa.eu/Advanced.aspx (not granular
| enough to detect anything)
|
| - SafeCast -
| https://map.safecast.org/?y=51.361&x=30.123&z=11&l=0&m=0 (does
| detect high levels right now)
| jka wrote:
| The Safecast link displays higher radioactivity levels within
| some of the core road network in and around Chernobyl
| relative to road networks further away - that's to be
| expected, I think? If so, it doesn't necessarily indicate
| (nor disprove) an upwards trend.
|
| The EU-EC JRC map does provide visibility into recent
| historic data and trend charts; currently neither of the
| three nearest stations (UA33231, BY33124, UA33236) seem to
| indicate an upwards trend in the surrounding environment over
| the past 48 hours.
|
| As you say, granularity is important - perhaps there's
| something going on at a very localized level in-or-around the
| sensors at the Chernobyl nuclear storage facility; whatever
| it is doesn't yet seem to indicate any broader effect, as far
| as I can tell. It's certainly worth staying wary, but also
| worth being careful about how the situation's communicated
| and how people react to the news.
| perihelions wrote:
| I had checked those already, but neither have the Chernobyl
| dataset. (They don't have any recent data either -- nothing
| that could independently confirm stuff).
|
| - _" (does detect high levels right now)"_
|
| Those aren't recent measurements: right-click on the map to
| see their timestamps ("Query Safecast API Here").
| xaerise wrote:
| https://www.saveecobot.com/en/radiation-maps#14/51.3880/30.1...
| c7DJTLrn wrote:
| This is ridiculous panic. They haven't cracked open the NSC or
| anything like that. It's just dust. Long lived radionuclides
| kicked into the air that emit alpha and beta radiation -
| practically harmless unless you're playing around in it like a
| sandpit. Please don't let your attention be diverted from the
| matter at hand.
| pleb_nz wrote:
| Imagine this for a movie plot
|
| Russia stages the invasion as a cover to recover something from
| deep under Chernobyl
|
| What do you think that thing might be....
| ge96 wrote:
| They bored straight into hell (an actual recent movie that came
| out The Superdeep)
|
| edit: that's not a spoiler btw, the plot is pretty neat
| jl6 wrote:
| Chernobyl was a geo-nuclear power plant sited on top of a
| natural column of subcritical fissile material that extended
| down deep into the Earth's crust. The plan was to seed the
| column with just enough nuclear fuel to bring the upper part to
| critical mass, and thence draw material upwards into the
| reaction zone, thus creating a virtually unlimited supply of
| fuel and energy.
|
| Unfortunately, the accident caused a meltdown which is still
| going, three decades later. When it hits the mantle, its energy
| output will begin to grow exponentially as it consumes the
| greater concentrations of nucleotides at that depth.
| Eventually, it will explode, triggering global supervolcanism,
| which will destroy most of human civilization, and potentially
| drop ash on Putin's car. He's only just had it washed, so he
| sends in the troops to retrieve the melting core, and save the
| world.
| anshumankmr wrote:
| There's a followup tweet with a possible explanation:
| https://twitter.com/WillyWaugh/status/1497157722663391233
|
| Though I am not 100% sure of this since the USSR had removed the
| topsoil back then but I suppose more of it could have spewed back
| in to the soil over time.
| dtx1 wrote:
| I was in chernobyl, you could pick up reactor core debris
| everywhere there by just looking for it with a dosimeter for a
| few minutes.
| anshumankmr wrote:
| Even now?
| dtx1 wrote:
| I was there 2019, I assume not much has changed since then
| ugjka wrote:
| I don't think they removed the top soil for the whole exclusion
| zone, that'd be an insane feat
| sp332 wrote:
| From 1986: https://www.upi.com/Archives/1986/12/02/Workers-
| have-removed... They removed the topsoil from Pripyat. It
| wasn't perfect, but they pushed it into 800 trenches.
| https://xcdsystem.com/wmsym/archives//2013/papers/13526.pdf
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