[HN Gopher] One in three young people say they felt happier duri...
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One in three young people say they felt happier during lockdown
Author : vanilla-almond
Score : 241 points
Date : 2022-02-24 14:35 UTC (8 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cam.ac.uk)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cam.ac.uk)
| [deleted]
| pixelmoth wrote:
| Makes complete sense to me - I was able to focus on doing my best
| work, and really fell in love with Computer Science for the first
| time.
| hungryforcodes wrote:
| ...in the UK.
| lfuller wrote:
| This study was from the first lockdown period in June / July
| 2020, which I expect not to be strongly correlated with the way
| people feel now.
|
| In my experience and from talking with friends and family, it
| wasn't the initial lockdown that took a toll on their mental
| health - it was the sustained lockdowns over a two year period.
|
| The first lockdown was stressful and there was a lot of
| uncertainty, but it was also novel and exciting in a way with a
| sense of the entire world coming together to overcome something.
| After three or four lockdowns that no longer held.
| [deleted]
| LoveMortuus wrote:
| I think people forget that the hyper-connectivity that we have
| today with the coming of internet is an incredibly new thing.
|
| I'd wager that even during the lockdown people interacted with
| more people then people in history interacted without a lockdown.
|
| In consideration is not only internet but also cars and other
| forms of fast travel.
| joelbondurant1 wrote:
| stakkur wrote:
| Over a year and a half ago, a small number of students, in one
| country. I'm beginning to wonder when we hit the tipping point
| when science reporting devolved into clickbait.
| smilebot wrote:
| So, two in three young people say they felt sad or more or less
| the same during lockdown.
| imwillofficial wrote:
| Shitthatneverhappened.txt
|
| I don't believe this headline for a second
| lostgame wrote:
| The only reason I suffered during lockdown was due to an abusive
| and gaslighting as hell roommate who actually permanently drove
| me away from ever having roommates again.
|
| Otherwise, it would have kicked ass. Working from home these
| days, it's honestly not that different from what it would have
| been anyway, had I not been dealing with them.
|
| I truly love the ability to, I dunno; even just listen to my
| vinyl over my nice sound system while I work - or just making
| food at home...all the benefits and none of the loss whatsoever.
|
| Post pandemic life as a WFH coder kicks _ass_! :)
|
| Especially since I make some decent money on the side as a
| rapper/producer - it works _so_ well. If I have an idea at work,
| I can easily take 30min off and capture it with my full studio
| rig. It's amazing.
|
| Zero loss. Full gain. Literally, there's the drag of my life
| before the pandemic, and the joy of it after. I'd say during, too
| - but that asshole of an ex roommate really killed 2020 for me,
| sadly. :(
| _fat_santa wrote:
| Looking back, lockdowns sucked in the moment. But when I look at
| it in aggregate, my life improved dramatically. A big part of
| that was prior to the pandemic I would hit the clubs and bars
| every weekend. With bars and clubs closed I was forced to do
| other things, like go outside to nature.
|
| After a while the clubs re-opened but I realized I was no longer
| drawn to go to. My life on the weekends started to revolve around
| going outdoors rather than getting smashed. Eventually I made the
| biggest change and moved to Colorado to persue more outdoors.
|
| If the pandemic never happened I would probably still be living
| in the city going to bars and clubs. So while there are many
| negative things about the past two years, for me it ended in a
| net positive.
| 71a54xd wrote:
| Definitely a bit of dejavu here - I'm getting ready to do the
| same thing and had a very similar experience during the
| pandemic. I no longer really _like_ doing crowded loud social
| things, just seems constructed and unhealthy (maybe I 'm just
| feeling old in my late 20's?). Decided to axe my NYC lease and
| move to CO.
| sebow wrote:
| Ugh... 'happier' is a strong conclusion.If I had to guess the
| actual effect probably is something along the lines of people
| having more time for themselves, taking a break from society, and
| realizing they're stressed for no reason most of the time.
|
| This is not to say that the lockdown made anybody happier.I'm
| willing to bet the causal factor is the fact that people
| experienced a little bit of isolation, "me-time", took a break
| from the daily noise(especially the majority of people who spend
| too much time on social media).
|
| I want to see the more in-depth numbers: how many of those who
| reportedly stated that they felt happier during lockdown were
| using social media and/or were 'over-socializing' to the point
| that their own happiness was tied to other people's expectations?
| justinmchase wrote:
| That's a weird way of saying 2/3 people didn't feel happier.
| draw_down wrote:
| pembrook wrote:
| So 1 in 3 felt happier, 1 in 3 felt more depressed, and the
| remaining 1 in 3 felt no major change.
|
| Sounds pretty much like a normal (gaussian) distribution, or
| basically a non-story. Guessing if they measured satisfaction on
| a scale, the majority were clustered near the "no major change"
| camp, as with any gaussian curve. As we already know, it turns
| out humans can adapt to things.
|
| By phrasing the headline result as "1 in 3 felt happier," it
| creates a narrative where there likely isn't one. You imagine the
| 33% were this solid block of people feeling much happier. But,
| re: the gaussian distribution, its likely very few were at the
| extremes, and most were clustered towards the middle.
|
| Textbook clickbait. It invites you to react with your emotional,
| anecdotal feelings about what this means to you, as if there was
| any interesting finding there.
| lemmsjid wrote:
| The article contextualizes itself at the beginning. A large
| number of people believe the effect of the lockdowns on
| children was not a normal distribution but was skewed negative.
| So a normal distribution is news. This does not discount your
| argument that emphasizing the positive side of the distribution
| is clickbait, but if it is positioning itself as emphasizing
| that positive side to a population who thinks it is all
| negative, then I think it's fine.
|
| For me textbook clickbait is an article that does not
| substantiate the promise of the headline, or one that comically
| exaggerates the excitement of the information in the article.
| There are people who believe the lockdowns were wholly an
| atrocity on children, and this article substantiates a
| counterbalance without going all the way (after all, the
| headline itself tells you that 2/3 children were unaffected or
| negatively affected).
| bavell wrote:
| > The highest proportions of students who reported improved
| mental wellbeing were among those who were in school every
| day (39%) and most days (35%), while the highest proportion
| of students who reported worse wellbeing were those who
| attended just once or twice (39%).
|
| Seems that it absolutely skews negative for the kids who had
| to deal with more lockdowns, i.e. not going to school with
| their peers.
|
| > So a normal distribution is news.
|
| I don't see anywhere in the article where they claim it's a
| normal distribution? OP was just speculating IIUC.
| _Nat_ wrote:
| > Seems that it absolutely skews negative for the kids who
| had to deal with more lockdowns, i.e. not going to school
| with their peers.
|
| That's incorrect.
|
| If you look at Figure-1 from [the article](https://link.spr
| inger.com/article/10.1007/s00787-021-01934-z ), it appears
| that students were happier when they attended either " _Not
| at all_ " or " _Every day_ ". It's the middle-ground
| options that averaged out to show lower-satisfaction.
|
| Or to frame it differently, students who never went to
| school in-person reported a net-positive average: 33.5%
| better vs. 32.7% worse (vs. 33.8% the same). That doesn't
| support the notion that students didn't like staying home.
|
| That said, I'd warn against over-interpreting such small
| differences.
|
| ---
|
| Separately, if we did want to speculate based on the data:
| we might guess that it was about consistency.
|
| Students appeared to be happiest when they attended not-
| all-all or every-day, with lower improvements in middle-
| ground options.
|
| Comparing the two extremes, there is a preference for
| every-day over not-at-all (stressing that we're talking
| about smaller figures here), but even that might be
| explainable in terms of consistency: because, before the
| pandemic, students did attend every-day -- so not-at-all
| was a major shift in lifestyle for those students, i.e. a
| major inconsistency.
|
| Hypothetically, if students always attended online, but
| then some had to start attending in-person every-day, we
| might see the reverse bias, as then it'd be the students
| who'd have to attend having the major shift in lifestyle.
|
| ---
|
| All that said, there appear to be more underlying factors.
|
| For example, if we look at Table 2, it appears that there
| was a more considerable gender-gap:
|
| * males were happier (2400 vs. 1836);
|
| * females weren't (3185 vs. 3861).
|
| That's a large enough relative-disparity as to suggest that
| it may be a mistake to interpret the data in a gender-blind
| way; the little on-average differences seem overshadowed by
| the gender-differences.
| dv_dt wrote:
| When data was reviewed, the effect in suicides among school
| age children was that it was significantly lower despite
| anti-lockdown spokespeople claiming it was higher. The
| shocking thing was that thisj was not even close in the data.
| DocTomoe wrote:
| Political leaders wanted kids back in school so parents
| would be able to go back to work.
|
| At the same time, the media starts talking about how bad
| homeschooling and lockdowns are for kids mental health and
| suicide rates.
|
| Consent is always manufactured.
| Thlom wrote:
| When kids can't socialize normally with their peers that
| is negative for them, even if kids themselves might be
| happy with "homeschooling" and socializing with their
| friends in Minecraft.
|
| We have been spared most lockdown measures, but had a
| couple of weeks with closed schools and day care. It was
| fine, but my kids were absolutely better of once schools
| and day care opened again.
| ipaddr wrote:
| I'm not following why if kids are happy homeschooling and
| socializing on popular video games is a negative?
|
| If your kids experienced only a month of lockdowns
| returning to normal would make them absolutely better.
| What if you were locked down for the entire year or two?
| After your kids get use to it they might respond
| differently.
| logifail wrote:
| > I'm not following why if kids are happy homeschooling
| and socializing on popular video games is a negative?
|
| Many kids, including our three, would be perfectly happy
| if they didn't have to do any school _work_ ever again.
|
| During the worst lockdown period here our middle child
| got 45 mins "online" with his teacher each day, and apart
| from that, he was on his own. Two working parents, with
| two (allegedly) full-time jobs. As the saying goes, "do
| the math"...
|
| Far too much TV was watched. Far too much youtube too.
| Far too much Minecraft was played.
|
| For the kids this was Just Fine(!) For us parents, not so
| much.
| brimble wrote:
| By the time kids are old enough that suicide starts to
| become a serious risk (6th grade and up, mostly) I'd need
| to see some serious data to convince me that socializing
| at school isn't net-harmful. In fact I'm surprised rates
| might have dropped, _because_ kids were still able to
| socialize over the Internet. But, possibly, that gave
| them more ability to avoid the worst of it, and that was
| enough to make a difference.
|
| It's really, really hard for kids to avoid a handful of
| super-toxic students in their class, when in person. Your
| options are much more limited than an adult's are under
| similar circumstances.
| geoduck14 wrote:
| >Political leaders wanted
|
| I feel the need to intervene here. The only thing
| political leaders want... is to get reelected. That is
| there job. To get reelected.
|
| Sure, in certain cases, a politician has kids and wants
| _their_ kids back in school. But in this example the line
| should go:
|
| Political leaders had constituents that wanted kids back
| in school, so the leaders worked to make that happen.
| croes wrote:
| Political leaders want money and power that's why they
| want to be reelected.
| tedivm wrote:
| That's an ideal world, but we don't live in an ideal
| world. Politicians do things not just to get reelected,
| but also to build their own wealth and power. To say that
| they only care about being reelected is a gross and
| inaccurate simplification.
| DocTomoe wrote:
| I used to believe the same things, that politicians
| followed the general will of their potential voters. I
| don't anymore, and reading some Chomsky made me
| understand how the system works. "Manufacturing Consent:
| The Political Economy of the Mass Media" is suggested
| reading, with the caveat that it opens the readers eyes
| to a harrowing reality and that what has been seen cannot
| be unseen.
| tehjoker wrote:
| Agreed, once you read that book (or watch the documentary
| [0]) it sets you down a new path of understanding.
| However, you will feel alternatively annoyed or horrified
| every day of the rest of your life.
|
| [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuwmWnphqII
| rhizome wrote:
| It's good, but there has to be a better introduction than
| a 3hr documentary.
| manigandham wrote:
| What data and what review?
| shadowgovt wrote:
| Do you have a source regarding the suicide rate you can
| share?
|
| Everything I'm finding suggests they went up (the CDC
| "morbidity and mortality weekly report" indicated a 22%
| spike in 2020 relative to 2019).
| dv_dt wrote:
| I would follow Dr Tyler Black,
| https://twitter.com/tylerblack32 for data on that. He
| reviews data (with source links) from multiple sources
| and provides interpretations, and imho a pretty good job
| of breaking down nuances in the data, how it is grouped
| and summarized vs the ground conditions.
|
| The CDC data was reviewed by him on this thread. This is
| perhaps the simplest summary:
|
| https://twitter.com/tylerblack32/status/14707856763166638
| 20?...
|
| Edit: There is actually an interesting presentation of
| data on this and other school mental health impacts on a
| even more macro basis in the Urgency of Equity website
| data packet which tries to provide a scientifically
| backed set of recommendations for schools going forward
| on Covid. It is biased to taking more specific actions
| than the anti-vax/anti-mask crowd, and even the current
| Covid policies of many governments.
|
| http://urgencyofequity.org
| Spellman wrote:
| Notably from the graphic, not having school early in
| lockdown was great! Lower suicides.
|
| Once Hybrid/Remote started, suicides worse, implying
| worse than baseline. But slightly within error bars for
| most.
|
| So order of good > bad: No School > In-Person school >
| Hybrid
| dv_dt wrote:
| And even outside of the specific school scheme, looking
| at overall rates of child suicide in the US and Canada,
| the rates aren't out of variance from historical trends
| vs during covid years.
|
| (see pg 25 for the graphs on the Urgency of Equity
| packet).
| rhizome wrote:
| I don't have kids or anything more than an academic
| interest, but from what I gathered, "hybrid/remote"
| involved the most brain-dead approach to learning
| environments possible. It seems/seemed like they just
| looked at the most popular videoconferencing options and
| used them as designed. From what I read, that did not
| provide a very good classroom simulation, and classroom
| simulations was the only option sought.
| yodsanklai wrote:
| > Sounds pretty much like a normal (gaussian) distribution, or
| basically a non-story
|
| If your interpretation is correct, this means the center of the
| distribution is "neutral", but it could very well not be the
| case.
| _Nat_ wrote:
| The article calls out exactly one quote:
|
| > The common narrative that the pandemic has had overwhelmingly
| negative effects on the lives of children and young people
| might not tell the full story [-Emma Soneson]
|
| They appear to be arguing _against_ that narrative rather than
| _for_ the opposite.
| karaterobot wrote:
| I mean, I wouldn't expect the distribution to be normal. It
| would also be interesting if the headline was "1 in 3 young
| people say they don't mind getting run over by a truck". You'd
| think things which are generally viewed as negative would tend
| towards a biased distribution, so if that's not the case I'm
| interested.
| civilized wrote:
| Come on. Would you _really_ have predicted, before a massive
| two-year pandemic, that it would have a mean-zero random impact
| on people 's well-being? Let's keep ourselves honest here.
| pembrook wrote:
| I thought it was a well recognized fact that humans adapt--I
| remember this even from my old high school psych class.
|
| There's been a thousand studies about this (becoming a
| refugee, poverty vs. being rich, etc etc).
|
| For most people, the only thing that has the power to
| permanently change your mental state is the death of someone
| very close to you (a spouse, child, etc) or forced exile from
| an identity forming social tie (eg. divorce, getting fired)
| pawelmurias wrote:
| It's not a commonly held belief. Why would anyone want to
| be rich or afraid of being poor of a refuge if you could
| adapt to anything?
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| Because adapting sucks, but we adapt well to many things.
| The fear of change can often be worse than change itself.
| nemetroid wrote:
| > Guessing if they measured satisfaction on a scale, the
| majority were clustered near the "no major change" camp, as
| with any gaussian curve.
|
| They did measure satisfaction on a scale. From page four of the
| report:
|
| > Students responded on a sliding scale of 0-100 with five
| labelled categories, 'Much worse', 'Slightly worse', 'The
| same', 'Slightly better', and 'Much better', anchored at scores
| 0, 25, 50, 75, and 100, respectively. We simplified the scale
| in this analysis by transforming it into groups of those doing
| 'worse' (scores 0-37.5 on the sliding scale), 'the same'
| (scores 37.6-62.5), or 'better' (scores 62.6-100) (N.B.
| categories are not evenly divided due to how the scale is
| presented in the survey; please see https://osf.io/fpbt3/ for
| an example of the survey scales).
|
| Fitting a normal distribution with 1/3 of the volume in the
| 37.6-62.5 range ends up with 1/5 of respondents above the
| "Slightly better" mark (i.e. above 75).
| rmbyrro wrote:
| As any _newssian_ distributuon would predict: journalists
| fabricating stories to sell clicks.
| manigandham wrote:
| This isn't serious research. It was a survey of students, from
| June/July 2020. Barely a few months of lockdown by then.
| marcosdumay wrote:
| > or basically a non-story
|
| Are you kidding? Of all the possible consequences from
| completely changing the daily life of people "no overall change
| on happiness" was the least plausible one.
| theptip wrote:
| > basically a non-story
|
| I don't think this is the right take. I'm going to venture that
| pretty much everyone thinks it was worse than this, i.e. that
| the more young people feel depressed than happier in COVID-
| time. So "it's actually on average no effect" very much is a
| "story", it would be something that would cause most people to
| substantially update their models of the world if it's sound
| research.
|
| Put differently, "1 in 3 young people felt depressed" isn't
| surprising at all. "1 in 3 young people felt happier" is
| surprising to me. So leading with the surprising bit makes
| sense for a lede.
|
| All of this is meta-level, I have no opinion on the object-
| level validity of the research.
| zwieback wrote:
| There's been rising awareness that researchers refrain from
| publishing neutral or "boring" results, this is a real problem
| because it skews the expectations not only of researchers but
| also the general public.
|
| So, for me this is not a non-story and, in fact, somewhat
| unexpected. I'm hoping it'll trigger more in-depth research
| into what made those 33% happier. Some of the reasons are
| obvious but I suspect there's more nuance.
| causi wrote:
| A negative event doesn't cause a normal distribution like that.
| When a hurricane floods a city a third of the citizens don't
| feel happy about it. The story is the fact there is a normal
| distribution, thus prompting an examination of why a massive
| restriction of movement _wasn 't_ a purely negative event.
| Terry_Roll wrote:
| >Textbook clickbait. LOL I'd say your post is!
| bjornsing wrote:
| > Sounds pretty much like a normal (gaussian) distribution, or
| basically a non-story.
|
| Depends on your perspective I think. Where I live (Sweden) the
| general sentiment was that young people would kill themselves
| in droves if there was a lockdown. So here this should be news,
| I'd say.
| huijzer wrote:
| > So 1 in 3 felt happier, 1 in 3 felt more depressed, and the
| remaining 1 in 3 felt no major change. > > Sounds pretty much
| like a normal (gaussian) distribution, or basically a non-
| story.
|
| For a Gaussian, I would have expected 1 felt worse, 6 felt the
| same and 1 felt better. The current numbers sound more like an
| uniform distribution.
| kolbe wrote:
| It's also a survey, which is largely useless in the discovery
| of real information. Whereas in my county, ER visits for teen
| attempted suicides are up over 100% from pre-Covid. That seems
| more like actual evidence that something is wrong here
| bleuchase wrote:
| What a stupid claim. Based on useless self reported data.
|
| Also their "data" is two years old:
|
| > More than 17,000 students took part in the June/July 2020
| survey, during the tail end of the first national lockdown
|
| Think the young people might report feeling different now?
| rjh29 wrote:
| The 'first national lockdown' is key I think - the first one
| was fairly novel, you got a break from school/work in some
| cases, more time with the kids, you felt safe. It was (for me
| at least) the second and third that really hurt mentally,
| because you wondered when it was ever going to end.
| sweezyjeezy wrote:
| For the first lockdown I think I would have gone neutral -
| there was a certain novelty factor that made it kind of
| interesting - my friends all banded on Discord, everyday
| experiences were new, and kind exciting in a weird way. The
| third lockdown (late 2020 - Apr 2021) was one of the worst
| experiences I can remember, probably the lowest I've been in
| the last decade.
| mouzogu wrote:
| Problem with these survey is you don't really appreciate the
| problems you DONT have.
|
| We are fickle, easy to forget. One day stuck in traffic or in a
| crowded bus/metro is enough to make you count your blessings.
| Speaking about WFH.
| rootusrootus wrote:
| Yep. Every two months I drive my mother to a medical
| appointment not far from where my office is (officially; the
| building we work in is closing for good). By the time I get
| back home I'm thinking "I used to do this _every day_ , I'm so
| glad I don't any more..."
| jmyeet wrote:
| The paramters:
|
| > Ms Soneson and colleagues explored this issue using the OxWell
| Student Survey, a large, school-based survey of students aged
| eight to 18 years living in England. More than 17,000 students
| took part in the June/July 2020 survey,
|
| A lot of people have spoken about the negative effects on
| children of lockdowns, social isolation and so forth. I'm glad to
| see a study pointing to the positives. Why? Because for a lot of
| people high school (in particular) is absolutely horrible
| normally.
|
| In the US in particular we have a culture where bullying is
| tolerated ("boys will be boys", "toughen up") and the victims of
| bullying are treated like potential mass shooters.
|
| It's actually like there is a systemic acceptance that some
| children will be chewed up and spit out for the social benefit of
| others. If that's not a microcosm of US culture I don't know what
| is.
|
| Another finding comes to mine: girls tend to do better in same-
| sex schools. Boys tend to do better in mixed-sex schools. Again
| this seems like tacit acceptance that many of us are OK with
| girls being "expendable" for male student outcomes.
|
| One upside of the pandemic is that it's challenged a lot of
| norms, such as having to be in the office. Likewise, the worker
| shortage we have now is probably the best thing for worker rights
| in the last 50 years.
| mwigdahl wrote:
| While I don't doubt that bullying is tolerated in a lot of
| schools in the US, my son was recently physically bullied and
| the administration was very quick in setting up opportunities
| for natural intervention (doing so in a way that didn't single
| him out even further as weak or a snitch).
|
| In addition, your statement that girls are being treated as
| expendable to promote male outcomes flies in the face of the
| clear evidence that the current US educational system favors
| girls over boys -- heavily by 8th grade
| (https://ed.stanford.edu/news/new-stanford-education-study-
| sh...). _Why_ this is happening is not super clear, but the
| current system is certainly not throwing girls under the bus to
| improve outcomes for boys.
| zmmmmm wrote:
| I can believe this certainly in the first wave of lockdowns. I
| would wonder a lot however what happened in the 2nd/3rd and so on
| for places that had them. I do find it slightly annoying that
| there seems to be a default uncritical acceptance of the view
| that lockdown was universally terrible for kids mental health
| when I know first hand of several examples where it wasn't at
| all. I feel like some amount of that is a fig leaf over the fact
| that many kids are living in unhealthy environments at home to
| begin with. So lockdown means they are exposed to more of that,
| but it's not the lockdown causing the harm it is the home
| environment where they are exposed to harmful factors.
| screye wrote:
| > The highest proportions of students who reported improved
| mental wellbeing were among those who were in school every day
| (39%) and most days (35%), while the highest proportion of
| students who reported worse wellbeing were those who attended
| just once or twice (39%).
|
| So, the students least affected by the lockdown were happy during
| the lockdown? I am not sure what to conclude here.
| blah_humbug wrote:
| Let's repeat that survey, across all age groups, and for the
| current month. I'm especially curious what the eponymous "granny"
| has to say about it. I'm also very curious to hear what parents
| have to say about their kids being herded to a screens-only life
| at absurdly young ages. I know this was already happening, but it
| has been vastly accelerated. I can only hope this means we will
| get to the natural maxima and swing back the other way sooner.
| gunfighthacksaw wrote:
| The pandemic started towards the end of my masters and beyond the
| initial "oh shit" moment, I actually found it way better than I
| expected because for the first time in my life it was not weird
| for me to just stay at home, enjoy my own company and reduce
| socializing by a factor of 5 or more.
|
| Now when I actually have to interact with people it's in a low
| enough volume that it's enjoyable and not the crapshoot it used
| to be: OK or ordeal depending on the day.
| klyrs wrote:
| Among my peers, there's a pretty big split between people who
| have a social life outside of work, and people who don't. The
| folks who have a family, especially, see time spent commuting
| as a detriment to both work and family. For those highly social
| coworkers, the lockdown (and enduring resistance to commuting)
| has been a big negative.
| gdfgjhs wrote:
| I think I would have enjoyed pandemic a lot more if I was not
| married or had kids. It was nice to get out of so many boring
| social obligations. I tried to play more video games, caught up
| on various shows, picked up new hobbies, creatively socialized
| like hiking, or meeting outdoors.
|
| But a few weeks in my wife got really depressed, she didn't
| want to do anything but complain about lockdowns. I spent rest
| of next two years trying to cheer her up. It was exhausting. So
| finally I gave up on social distancing guidelines and we
| started to socialize like normal. But for some reason she
| continues to complain about lockdowns, covid, etc. I am
| spending all my energy cheering her.
| t-writescode wrote:
| Grass is greener. I spent the last 2 years wishing I had
| someone to be with.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Yeah I think for some people, the lockdowns really opened their
| eyes that a simple life spent mostly at home can be enjoyable,
| and something they want to continue. Of course for some others,
| who thrive on activity and a lot of social interaction, the
| lockdowns were miserable.
| GoodJokes wrote:
| lordnacho wrote:
| I can relate. During my studies I often felt like I ought to
| make the most of having people around. So much is made of the
| opportunity to meet people at uni, it feels odd to waste it.
|
| With a lockdown I think I'd be just fine at home or in a
| student hall, putting the most into studying.
| lumost wrote:
| Having just started an online masters, I've noticed that
| socialization can bias strongly towards "Purposeful"
| socialization e.g. A slack channel for discussing the
| class/assignments.
|
| Compared to my undergrad there were many times I think I just
| sat around drinking/watching movies because there was a
| social group doing it. I wonder if the lack of purpose in
| such activities grinds on students over time.
| dionidium wrote:
| I have sometimes joked that there's a kind of "socialist" whose
| politics seem mostly to be centered around the notion that in a
| post-capitalist socialist utopia they'd somehow just be able to
| stay home and not participate in anything.
|
| This is a joke, but I do wonder if there isn't a kind of person
| who, whether we call it introversion or whatever, just isn't at
| all happy in the kind of modern environment where you have to
| interact a lot with strangers, where you have to be in a customer
| service or large office environment everyday, where you
| constantly have to be moving forward and mingling and so on.
|
| They just want to...coast.
|
| And they get the sense, somehow, that capitalism is to blame for
| how they feel, but, I don't know, maybe it's modernity itself.
| Taylor_OD wrote:
| I don't think I was happier but it gave me the chance to work
| fully remote which has been an absolute net positive in my life.
| egberts1 wrote:
| two of three young people did not get happier shortly after COVID
| lockdown: NEXT!
| rossdavidh wrote:
| Well if they're 8 to 18, then a sizeable number of them were
| having to go to school otherwise. In other words, one in three
| prefer staying home to going to school. The only surprise is that
| it's not higher.
| jimmyjazz14 wrote:
| If there is one thing I have learned its that my own self
| reporting on my happiness is extremely variable and unreliable.
| Someone could have asked me at many periods during the last few
| years if I was happy and I might have reported I was but I know
| for a fact that deep down my mental health was taking a tole even
| if I didn't notice it at the time. So yeah, self reported mental
| health status should probably be looked at with a skeptical eye.
| coldtea wrote:
| Of course. As students (born in the internet+smartphone era) they
| were primed all their life to feel freer in asocial cocooning
| zwieback wrote:
| Except that one of the data points was that kids who were in
| full-time school were happier, so it's probably got to do with
| home life. Full-time school + more parents/siblings at home.
| joelbondurant1 wrote:
| ghaff wrote:
| I'm less inclined to draw broad generational generalizations
| but it's probably fair to say that a lot of things would have
| played out differently in a pre-mainstream Internet era.
| gjulianm wrote:
| I don't agree with the implication that using Internet and
| smartphones make people asocial. If anything, I bet those techs
| helped people feel less isolated than they'd have felt without
| them.
| coldtea wrote:
| > _those techs helped people feel less isolated_
|
| You said it. Including before covid.
| SketchySeaBeast wrote:
| This seems like one of those occasions where there'd be an "of
| course" for either result. Sort of an "absence makes the heart
| grow fonder"/"out of sight, out of mind" situation.
| amcoastal wrote:
| Leave it to an old person to yell about technology ruining
| people while denying the simple science that some people might
| feel differently about socialization than others.
| coldtea wrote:
| And leave it to a young person to welcome any change as
| progress, and see technology not as a tool, but as a good in
| itself.
|
| > _while denying the simple science that some people might
| feel differently about socialization than others._
|
| Yeah, It certainly is just "differently", can't be worse.
| That's why depression is sky high among the youngs,
| loneliness and isolation is reported as having rocketed, and
| so on (and that's already pre covid).
|
| Well, since it works out so well for them...
| TheFreim wrote:
| I'm a young fellow and I would generally agree with you.
| I'm sick of the rejection of people's opinions because
| they're "old" (aka more experienced). Beginning to take the
| advice and views of my elders seriously is what I think has
| helped make me so much more happy in my day to day life. I
| feel like I've been able to skip over many of the troubles
| my peers face.
| chrisseaton wrote:
| > As students (born in the internet+smartphone era) they were
| primed all their life to feel freer in asocial cocooning
|
| Don't know what kind of students you're thinking about - I
| can't imagine anyone more intensely social than a group of
| freshers?
| coldtea wrote:
| That's maybe because you don't have experience with past
| groups of freshers to compare modern ones to...
| chrisseaton wrote:
| Been involved with universities since 2003.
| PragmaticPulp wrote:
| > In fact, an almost identical number of students fell into each
| of the three categories: their mental wellbeing had improved;
| there had been no change; or they had experienced a deterioration
| to their wellbeing.
|
| This feels like a red flag on the conclusions.
|
| How does this compare to a normal time period? I wouldn't be
| surprised if the random ups and downs of growing up normally
| resulted in a distribution where 1/3 of students claim they felt
| happier, 1/3 of students claimed they felt the same, and 1/3 of
| students felt worse than the prior year.
|
| Journalists are so desperate to publish hot takes on COVID that
| we've forgotten that people's lives normally change over time.
| actually_a_dog wrote:
| > How does this compare to a normal time period? I wouldn't be
| surprised if the random ups and downs of growing up normally
| resulted in a distribution where 1/3 of students claim they
| felt happier, 1/3 of students claimed they felt the same, and
| 1/3 of students felt worse than the prior year.
|
| This sounds to me like a distinction without a difference. In
| both cases, the net result would be approximately 0 effect on
| the overall mental health of the population being studied.
| Closi wrote:
| > This sounds to me like a distinction without a difference.
| In both cases, the net result would be approximately 0 effect
| on the overall mental health of the population being studied.
|
| I believe OP is saying that the underlying assumption here is
| that students do not get happier during their time during
| university without lockdown.
|
| If for instance 2/3 students left university happier than
| when they started pre-lockdown/covid, this would need to be
| accounted for in any study to make it meaningful.
| andjd wrote:
| My take is that this is a counterpoint to the dominant media
| narrative that covid and lockdowns have been detrimental to the
| mental heath of nearly every child, usually based on anecdata.
| So even if these results _aren't_ different from a normal year,
| that's still meaningful.
|
| I think this is the crux of their conclusions too:
|
| > While the pandemic has undoubtedly had negative consequences
| for many, it is important to keep in mind that this is not the
| case for all children and young people.
| zaroth wrote:
| It's not all "anecdata"...
|
| > _In May 2020, during the COVID-19 pandemic, ED visits for
| suspected suicide attempts began to increase among
| adolescents aged 12-17 years, especially girls. During
| February 21-March 20, 2021, suspected suicide attempt ED
| visits were 50.6% higher among girls aged 12-17 years than
| during the same period in 2019_.
|
| [1] - https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7024e1.htm
| qqqwerty wrote:
| Alternative headline: "Lockdowns allowed for parents to
| keep a closer eye on their kids, as a result more suicide
| attempts were discovered during the pandemic. Actual
| suicides (and thus attempts) did not increase
| significantly."
|
| According to this source[1] 1 in 25 attempts in youth are
| successful vs 1 in 4 for the elderly. That leaves a lot of
| room for "attempt discovery" statistics to meaningfully
| change without any meaningful changes in actual attempts.
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_attempt#:~:text=T
| he%20....
| rootusrootus wrote:
| How did that play out over the rest of the pandemic,
| though? May 2020 was _early_ in the pandemic, and there was
| a lot of turmoil. But things did settle down pretty quickly
| into a new normal for a lot of us.
| ryandrake wrote:
| And it's not just true for children. The narrative from the
| media has been _overwhelmingly_ "Stay-at-home has been bad
| for everyone! Nobody is happier! Everyone wants to get back
| to normal." Almost zero recognition that for some people it's
| been bad, for some, not much of a change, and for some, it's
| been a very positive experience.
|
| Sure, some have pointed out that billionaires have gotten
| better off, but that's a non-story--when has that not been
| true?
| gpderetta wrote:
| Breaking news: half of people happier than average!
| Scharkenberg wrote:
| Well, it _would_ be news if the median didn 't coincide with
| the average.
| jdlyga wrote:
| During lockdown, my wife and I left Manhattan to stay with my
| parents in the suburbs temporarily, and so did my sister. We
| thought it was going to be a couple weeks, and it turned into 3
| months. I really enjoyed having the whole family together. We ate
| dinner together every night, cooked for each other, went on
| walks. Of course we got in each others way sometimes. But overall
| I do miss that time, and wish it was possible for our family to
| live like that.
| justinmchase wrote:
| I can't know your full situation but I'd like to think its
| still very possible!
| jdrc wrote:
| schools are constant social pressure, comparing yourself, and
| feeling inadequate. no wonder so many kids felt relief ,
| ignorance is a bliss while you are young at least. But i m afraid
| they will invent new stupid games with online tools too.
| mysore wrote:
| lockdown made me more depressed than ever. I had a breakup right
| before the lockdown and ended up overdosing on MDMA right at the
| start of it in april 2020. Overall haven't been able to recover
| emotionally or physically but I did get a better job that pays
| better than any job i've ever had. Eventually moved back in with
| my parents because it seemed pointless to live in a tiny new york
| appartment all alone and pay high rent. Now i feel stuck and I'm
| not sure where to go. I was thinking of traveling in south
| america because the time zones are the same. I've been feeling
| like life is kinda pointless. It's just the same thing on repeat
| everyday. It seems like the pandemic is never going away and we
| just have to adapt as a species.
|
| Things seem bleak in america. Everyone is isolated. There's a
| housing crisis, a climate crisis, war and supply chain shortages
| everywhere.
|
| Not sure what the point of this comment is, just wanted to vent.
|
| I should feel happier than ever because of my new job but I've
| been depressed ever since my ex blocked me. I emailed her daily
| for about a year but she never responded so i stopped.
| amznbyebyebye wrote:
| Sorry to hear that man. It sounds like you're young-ish. Time
| heals, even though it sucks right now, and life has a way of
| sending someone else down your way and you can make each other
| happy.. Best of luck friend
| stripline wrote:
| You should move to Florida. The pandemic has been over here for
| over a year.
| justinmchase wrote:
| Maybe this isn't what you want to hear but never waste time on
| someone who doesn't want to be with you.
| throwawayboise wrote:
| Get out of your parent's house. It is a daily reminder that
| you're not facing life as an adult.
|
| You don't have to go to an expensive city. If you are working
| remotely you can live anywhere and there are plenty of nice
| towns where housing is not insanely expensive.
|
| Join a gym or a hiking club or something to get some physical
| activity and maybe meet some new friends.
| kortilla wrote:
| > Get out of your parent's house. It is a daily reminder that
| you're not facing life as an adult.
|
| This is complete bullshit. The US is a major outlier with the
| societal pressure to move out for no reason. It makes for
| poor family connections, wasted money, and wasted resources
| in general.
| coolso wrote:
| > no reason
|
| This is a big unsubstantiated implication you're making
| here. I fully agree that there is too much of a stigma
| against living with your family (though it has improved
| greatly over the past 10-15 years as surveys and studies
| have shown) in the US, but there are plenty of reasons to
| move out. This is coming from someone, by the way, who was
| convinced he'd probably stay living at home until 30 or so.
| I eventually realized it was holding me back.
|
| Yes, relatively speaking it cost me a ton of money to move
| out, and I'd have a lot more money in my bank account right
| now if I didn't, but none of that money was "wasted" and I
| wouldn't trade it for anything or go back and do anything
| differently. It changed my life immensely, for the better.
|
| I love my family but no matter how much you love your
| family there is no substitute for having a place of your
| own, and having the freedom and privacy to live your life
| the way you like, operate under your own rules, under your
| preferred hours, etc.
|
| You're right, many people may not be ready for this, and
| living at home shouldn't be stigmatized - though perhaps
| parents who don't raise children who are ready for it at a
| reasonable age should be stigmatized.
|
| But if you are gainfully employed and you have no mental
| conditions where being out on your own should affect you
| negatively, then moving out on your own is absolutely not a
| waste.
|
| > The US is a major outlier
|
| Despite all of its faults, the US is a major outlier in
| most things... in a good way. Yes, other countries and
| cultures may do things differently. But the individualist
| nature of the US is the keystone to what makes this country
| so great.
| lysecret wrote:
| Not sure if this was really because of the pandemic but for me
| the last 3 years have been life changing in a positive way. A
| feeling of "not beeing the only one feeling lonely sometimes" I
| think helped for sure.
| [deleted]
| bakuninsbart wrote:
| As a personal anecdote, I suffered in lots of ways during
| lockdown, but have never had such successful university semesters
| before. I'm suffering from (social) anxiety, so going to classes
| every morning was harder than some of the actual curriculums. But
| there were very few ways of passing while missing attendance.
| Often times, I'd go strong until about the last third of the
| semester and then just fail multiple courses. If not for Germany
| having free uni, I'd have had to give up on my degree for quite a
| while.
|
| Covid was definetely not good for my anxiety overall, and being
| socially isolated hurt a lot too. I couldn't see my girlfriend
| for months at a time, because we live in different countries in
| the EU. But for my studies, it did wonders. Lectures being
| recorded enabled me to watch them on demand and in different
| speeds. Online tutorials/seminars had far less of a hurdle to
| participate in. There was suddenly a record of most interactions
| over the course of a semester, making it far easier to prepare
| for exams. My job also moved online, so I saved a total average
| commute of 2 hours a day, which I was able to also invest in
| studying.
|
| Now I'm very close to finishing, but next semester will be back
| in person, and while I'm a bit nervous about it, the last 2 years
| of actually reaching some form of success paved the way to
| control my anxiety enough to finish I think.
|
| While I am very happy that things are opening up again, and some
| normalcy is restored, I _really_ hope that we don 't just go back
| to the old, because there were a number of things wrong, and I
| think a lot of it could be rectified quite easily.
| skd23423 wrote:
| The best thing happened to my programming job and mental health
| and physical too
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