[HN Gopher] Sunsetting the Bethesda.net launcher and migrating t...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Sunsetting the Bethesda.net launcher and migrating to Steam
        
       Author : alexrustic
       Score  : 199 points
       Date   : 2022-02-22 19:21 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (bethesda.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (bethesda.net)
        
       | LoveMortuus wrote:
       | Oh yeah... Bethesda had a launcher of their own... Totally forgot
       | about it~
        
       | mattlondon wrote:
       | They don't mention it, but I hope this means that their titles
       | will now be available on geforce now. IIRC the previous approach
       | of pulling their titles from geforce now et al was due to
       | "exclusivity" or whatever and trying to force people into their
       | ecosystem.
        
         | MikusR wrote:
         | Microsoft has Xcloud. So it won't happen.
        
       | adamrezich wrote:
       | nice, about time. I wonder if e.g. Quake Champions would've
       | flopped as hard as it did if it was just released on Steam at
       | launch instead of moved there later. I had a ton of fun with it
       | despite its controversial formula changes, and the soundtracks
       | (there's two, you can pick one or both, the second one is by
       | Andrew Hulshult) are really good.
        
         | orliesaurus wrote:
         | it didn't flop hard because of the platform that launched, it
         | flopped hard because of a gazillion other reasons, including
         | the poor UI, matchmaking queues, weapon balance, promotion etc
        
         | FanaHOVA wrote:
         | Pretty sure QC was on Steam at launch, it was on the Bethesda
         | Launcher only during beta. Quake games are just too hard for
         | most people nowadays, and the new stuff pushed away some of the
         | old players. I enjoyed it but Live was still better, and with
         | matchmaking being dead I just stopped playing it.
        
         | jasonm89 wrote:
         | TIL that there is a new Quake. I know what I'm doing tonight.
        
           | adamrezich wrote:
           | if you're not an uber-purist and/or you haven't had some good
           | ol' deathmatchin' in awhile, you'll have a great time. the
           | difference between QC and Q3:A/QL/etc. is that you pick a
           | Champion character to play as, with unique health/armor/speed
           | stats, as well as an ultimate ability. there's no
           | restrictions on who can pick which champion (like Overwatch
           | for example), and it's kind of like a "Super id Bros." as far
           | as the characters go (still no Orbb though...). I played
           | quite a bit of the game and while I tried some of the other
           | champions, the default Ranger feels the most "right".
           | 
           | the music is great too
           | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj21GFbEQog
           | 
           | maybe I should reinstall tonight too...
        
       | Hamuko wrote:
       | I'm surprised that they're not migrating customer games to the
       | Xbox store considering Bethesda is a subsidiary of Microsoft.
        
         | pavon wrote:
         | No kidding. The fact that they didn't even offer it as an
         | option along-side Steam says a ton.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | What I could actually guess is that they don't want sales
           | there, but instead of subscriptions. Thus the games are
           | already part of Game Pass so it might make more sense to move
           | them to platform that players want. And those who want on
           | their app, will pay monthly instead...
        
         | kevingadd wrote:
         | Players have spoken and a LOT of them prefer Steam.
        
           | kgwxd wrote:
           | Players should be saying they don't want "launchers" at all.
           | They provide no benefit that couldn't be done a better way.
        
             | haunter wrote:
             | > They provide no benefit that couldn't be done a better
             | way
             | 
             | This is like the famous Dropbox comment
             | 
             | "For a Linux user, you can already build such a system
             | yourself quite trivially by getting an FTP account,
             | mounting it locally with curlftpfs, and then using SVN or
             | CVS on the mounted filesystem"
        
               | monocasa wrote:
               | It's not. Complaining about something that only exists to
               | strategically hedge against a competitior's dominance but
               | just gets in the way at the user level is not the same as
               | the infamous Dropbox quote.
        
               | recursive wrote:
               | > only exists to
               | 
               | I've used the file verification and repair feature many
               | times. It's also a convenient place to enumerate the
               | games I have access to so I can download them on a new
               | PC.
        
               | monocasa wrote:
               | Just because it has some useful features doesn't
               | invalidate the fact that the only reason it exists to the
               | management that's in charge of it is as a hedge against
               | Valve. They don't care if it's a net win for their users
               | or not until it gets so bad that people stop buying their
               | games.
        
               | munk-a wrote:
               | I think there's plenty of room for pessimism when it
               | comes to the games industry. But Valve has (when not
               | occasionally making games which, let's face it, isn't
               | very often these days) become a business dedicated to the
               | business to selling games. It offers a platform that has
               | provided several innovations for usability to consumers
               | ahead of competitors (it isn't continuously playing
               | catchup - they're proactively investing) and it provides
               | a relatively low barrier to entry for publishing a game
               | in a pretty visible manner. I'm not certain if you ever
               | lived with Gamestop and EBGames as your main source of
               | purchasing games but it was pretty much impossible for
               | small devs to get noticed that way - so small devs ended
               | up posting their games on the internet (which was quite a
               | strong limitation in terms of size) or trying to get on
               | various ShareWare/Demo disks that'd circulate with
               | magazines.
               | 
               | I'm sure this isn't the absolute best timeline, but it
               | sure beats a land where Origin and UPlay successfully
               | beatup Steam and we're all forced back onto walled
               | gardens. And it seems sustainable, the second largest
               | platform (IMO) out there is GOG which is owned and
               | operated by CD Projekt Red - it seems like game studios
               | see a lot of utility from owning a mostly open platform
               | like this.
        
             | vorpalhex wrote:
             | Steam is a real value add, enough that I use it for non-
             | steam games.
             | 
             | Not only with proton or the controller db, but save-game
             | sync, multiplayer invites, their server browser, and
             | everything being tied to my login.
             | 
             | Even managing my game library on steam is pleasant! And the
             | social features they have are.. actually pretty useful.
             | Having a friends list of people who I game with is nice, as
             | is the ability to have low friction conversations.
        
               | snailmailman wrote:
               | Another huge factor is the built in steam discussion
               | forums. Any problems or questions with the game? There's
               | a dedicated forum for every game, easy to access. Sure
               | lots of games have their own forum or subreddit, but
               | smaller indie games sometimes don't.
               | 
               | I've even gone to the steam discussion forums for games
               | that are on Steam but I own elsewhere.
        
             | jcranmer wrote:
             | Launchers are bundling roughly 4 main services into one:
             | (a) automatic update, (b) storefront, (c) mod portal, and
             | (d) social networking.
             | 
             | The most important services are of course the first two,
             | and in this sense, you can think of them as basically
             | something like apt, but built with software that requires
             | you provide proof purchase before downloading it. This
             | helps explain why having to use multiple launchers provokes
             | such frustration among users--it means you basically have
             | two package managers running on your system.
             | 
             | Maybe if software update were a part of standard OS
             | services, it wouldn't be such an issue, but as it isn't [on
             | desktops], another platform providing such services
             | becoming popular for doing so shouldn't be surprising.
        
             | hombre_fatal wrote:
             | Dunno, I can log into Steam and still download and play any
             | game I've ever bought with all sorts of features like
             | global controller configuration and syncing saves between
             | my desktop and laptop.
             | 
             | What's the better way?
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | munk-a wrote:
             | I personally disagree, I don't want to downplay the power
             | of having stand alone applications - but having one
             | application that can help me matchmake in games and helps
             | keep all those games up to date while clearly (and non-
             | obnoxiously) advertising new features or DLCs for those
             | games. Steam does this things really cleanly and I don't
             | want to return to the world where each application has to
             | self-update whenever I launch it.
        
             | duskwuff wrote:
             | > They provide no benefit that couldn't be done a better
             | way.
             | 
             | Centralized software install/update, with a good CDN behind
             | it, is a pretty huge advantage. Even if you don't care
             | about any of the other features of the Steam launcher, that
             | one alone is worth it. Having every publisher run their own
             | download servers means they're much more subject to getting
             | overloaded under heavy demand, or becoming permanently
             | unavailable if the publisher goes out of business.
        
             | Ekaros wrote:
             | Nah, that is like using Linux without package manager. Sure
             | you can do that, but manual work is considerable.
             | 
             | And generally I think Steam staying alive is much more
             | likely than random places serving stuff. Even if it were
             | DRM free. Just looking at history quite many services have
             | come and gone on PC.
        
             | dtech wrote:
             | A central place where you can always could download your
             | purchased games, saves and mods and automatically installs
             | patches is an enormous benefit.
        
             | oblak wrote:
             | And what would that "other way" be? Let me guess, another
             | launcher, or simply no launcher, no updates, no "cloud"
             | saves, etc.
             | 
             | Downloading games off Steam is easier than pirating them.
             | If that's not progress, I don't know what is. Definitely
             | not the same with movies and music which tells me they
             | don't want it to be that easy.
        
               | LordDragonfang wrote:
               | > Definitely not the same with movies and music which
               | tells me they don't want it to be that easy.
               | 
               | It actually is, it's just called "streaming" instead of
               | downloading*.
               | 
               | For a very long time, Netflix was the go-to place for any
               | movies, and piracy was on the decline. Now all the old
               | media companies (who have even bigger god complexes than
               | game studios) are doing the exact same thing everyone in
               | this thread is discussing with alternate launchers, and
               | creating their own streaming services. And piracy is
               | suddenly back on the rise. Only time will tell whether
               | this will play out the same way as the OP, or whether the
               | flexibility afforded by inherently streamable format will
               | allow them to succeed in splintering where game studios
               | failed.
               | 
               | *Two notes on this:
               | 
               | 1) it's a benefit afforded by having a much more linear
               | data format
               | 
               | 2) despite what HN commenters may believe, it's only a
               | small percentage of users that care about _owning_
               | content rather than being able to conveniently _access_
               | it)
        
             | notjustanymike wrote:
             | People always forget what a pain in ass it was to download
             | patches before Steam existed.
        
               | jcranmer wrote:
               | With "just don't do it" being perhaps the most common
               | solution.
        
               | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
               | But then people forget that the bugs back then were just
               | as bad as today, you would get crashes literally every 15
               | minutes, and some were hilariously malicious - Pool of
               | Radiance (late 90's version) would straight up nuke your
               | C:\ drive if you uninstalled it from the non-default
               | location.
        
               | munk-a wrote:
               | Especially when it came to mods - since auto-updating
               | wasn't a thing mod devs were a lot more happy to tie
               | their mod to a specific patch of the game and just refuse
               | to support other versions. There's something to be said
               | about this making modding more accessible since you
               | weren't committing to long term support patches as the
               | game evolved... but it also made things a royal pain.
        
         | mastax wrote:
         | Microsoft has been happy-ish to have their games on Steam for a
         | while now. They probably would've gone all-in on the Xbox store
         | if the windows store (backend) wasn't so shitty.
        
           | belval wrote:
           | The Xbox app is a masterclass in how not to design a user
           | interface, it is clunky, the menus don't go anywhere, they
           | mixed terminology (some places have "Add friend" others have
           | "Follow friend"), users with multiple screens will find their
           | game launching on the non-principal one, language is tied to
           | the OS so if you want your games in English but your Windows
           | is in French you have to change the OS-level language.
           | 
           | I don't work at Microsoft, but if I had to guess there are
           | several teams working on individual components and they lack
           | a clear leader that enforce a global vision so it falls apart
           | at integration time.
        
             | hinkley wrote:
             | All day long most of us are interacting with products from
             | brands that we like while oblivious to the fact that these
             | brands are owned by ones we make fun of or even despise. I
             | don't thing anyone gets this big without realizing your
             | shareholders prefer dividends over you stoking your ego by
             | making sure everyone knows the money is going in your
             | pocket, even if that means less money comes in.
             | 
             | I don't think I've had Hennessy ever in my life, but they
             | own my favorite Scotch and some friends' favorite scotch.
             | They don't go bragging about it, they just collect the
             | checks.
             | 
             | Forgetting that Bethesda is owned by Microsoft is easier to
             | do if it's not on XBox.
        
             | snailmailman wrote:
             | It's awful. A lot of basic stuff is just missing.
             | 
             | I had an Xbox game pass trial. When it expired it closed
             | the game I was playing. No message. When I tried to reopen
             | the game nothing happened. None of my games worked. But
             | most importantly, _it never told me why_. Nowhere in the
             | interface does it communicate "your trial ended" or "hey
             | resubscribe to game pass" or "you can't play games anymore"
             | instead everything just stops working with no explanation.
             | I was midway through contacting support when I pieced
             | together that maybe the trial ended, and confirmed that _on
             | their website_. That information isn't available in the
             | desktop app.
             | 
             | (This was over a year ago, hopefully it's fixed now?)
        
               | marwis wrote:
               | Also when you try to launch a game that was removed from
               | gamepass you will get wonderful exception 0x00whatever
               | instead of actual reason.
        
               | lfowles wrote:
               | Probably not. I was waiting for my gamepass subscription
               | to expire last week so I could renew using the Xbox Live
               | Gold upgrade. I was constantly notified that my
               | subscription was _expiring soon_ , but never actually got
               | a notice when it actually expired. All of my games still
               | looked playable until I tried actually playing them.
        
           | cuteboy19 wrote:
           | Windows store is really bad. The UI, the UX, the lag, the
           | jank, all designed to spoil your day
        
             | rightbyte wrote:
             | I looked through the MS store yesterday to see what was
             | there. There was lots and lots of nudity apps. Like bikini
             | girls screen savers ... for real.
        
             | zeusk wrote:
             | and until a couple months ago, it was a crappy web app.
        
               | jay_kyburz wrote:
               | Steam is a web app.
        
             | vultour wrote:
             | I can't think of a single non-developer application by
             | Microsoft which isn't absolute garbage. Skype (after the
             | Microsoft "upgrade"), Teams, Windows Store, the Xbox
             | apps... It's incredible that they are unable to produce a
             | properly working application for their own operating
             | system.
        
             | tempnow987 wrote:
             | Literally how is the windows store so bad! Sometimes I'm
             | not signed in and don't want to be signed in (setting up a
             | new machine for someone else). The flows are just horrible.
             | 
             | On the mac the store makes things, in general, easier. On
             | windows its comedy. I wonder how many folks like myself now
             | just instinctively avoid it.
        
         | arijun wrote:
         | Perhaps they need it to work on Mac? Granted, it seems the only
         | game they have that's Mac compatible is elder scrolls online...
        
       | jmyeet wrote:
       | Kill all the launchers. Ubisoft, Rockstar, Bethesda (RIP), Epic.
       | I really hate these mediocre "me too" wannabe social network /
       | launchers.
       | 
       | I'm actually surprised this hasn't been rolled into the Xbox
       | launcher, which still exists right (on PC)?
        
         | ryandrake wrote:
         | Thank you. I already have a "launcher" for my programs. It's
         | called my computer's operating system. I don't understand why I
         | should need to run a program just to have it run another
         | program.
        
           | dzqhz wrote:
           | So you can conveniently buy, download and update certain
           | programs.
        
       | ramesh31 wrote:
       | I imagine this probably means the eventual death of Battle.net as
       | well. Honestly though, it's time. Battle.net was incredible back
       | in the day, but now it's just another annoying launcher that
       | segments my friends lists.
        
         | enra wrote:
         | Battle.net is probably the only launcher that is quite as
         | reliable and high quality as Steam. One example is that you can
         | start playing WoW way before the download or install is
         | complete. Downside is that they have been really pushing for
         | upsells in the recent years.
         | 
         | All other launchers are garbage. Origin doesn't even render
         | text properly on my 4k screen, and pretty much all of them
         | forgets my login each week.
        
         | EamonnMR wrote:
         | Battle.net when it was IRC was a great time.
        
         | aparticulate wrote:
         | The population of Battle.net is WAY bigger than the tiny
         | fraction of players using Bethesda launcher. Hard to know from
         | the outside but it's probably like 95%+ Steam even on their
         | newest games. NexusMods, the largest Bethesda modding host
         | rarely mentions the launcher even if mods are compatible.
         | 
         | Battle.net on the other hand predates Steam and they made some
         | of the most significant PC-only games of all time.
         | 
         | Having said that, I think you might be right for a different
         | reason. Blizzard will likely eat a massive amount of humble pie
         | post-2021 and Steam releases would seem like a reasonable
         | gesture of to restoring community goodwill.
        
           | 015a wrote:
           | Battle.net The Launcher doesn't pre-date Steam; it was
           | released in the early 2010s. Previously, before Steam,
           | Battle.net was a lot more nebulous, and would naturally have
           | had less user lock-in. Games were individually distributed,
           | and battle.net was more-so just an infrastructure-level
           | system Blizzard used to coordinate online games, chat, etc.
           | Even, IIRC, unified profiles weren't a thing until the early
           | 2010s and the desktop app was launched; WoW was different
           | from Starcraft, which was different from Diablo.
           | 
           | That is to say, yeah Battle.net today has far more users than
           | the Bethesda launcher, but it still predominately suffers
           | from the "users don't want to be here, its just where the
           | games are at" issue that the Bethesda & Rockstar launchers
           | suffer from.
           | 
           | I think it's likely that the Xbox acquisition will result in
           | a sunset of Battle.net as well. It'll probably resemble a
           | long-term plan like: deeper Battle.net/Xbox account
           | integration to share purchases and social state, release of
           | all titles on Steam & Xbox stores, forced migration of
           | Battle.net accounts to Xbox accounts, deprecation of the
           | Battle.net launcher; 2 years minimum, probably closer to 3.
        
             | beeboop wrote:
             | For context, battle.net the _service_ has existed since
             | 1996. Back in the day it was just used for the multiplayer
             | component of games like Diablo and Warcraft. I think it 's
             | still meaningful to point this out because even if it
             | wasn't a launcher like it is today, it was still a social
             | media/communications platform which is a meaningful part of
             | why people use certain launcher platforms/stores.
        
         | rainonmoon wrote:
         | Why would this have anything to do with Battle.net? There are
         | not insignificant portions of the playerbase fully bought into
         | that ecosystem (like... every World of Warcraft player, for a
         | start.) The Launcher itself has been around for almost 10
         | years; the network has been around for twice that. Bethesda's
         | launcher on the other hand was always an afterthought.
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | There's a lot more to Battle.net than most launchers. For one,
         | it's really deeply integrated into like every Blizzard game's
         | chat and friends system. It'd be hard to imagine Blizzard
         | retooling World of Warcraft's chat to accept messages from
         | Steam users, but at present players in WoW and say Heroes of
         | the Storm can chat with each other inside the games.
        
         | SketchySeaBeast wrote:
         | I'm curious as to that one. As launchers go it's excellent, so
         | I'm not sure if they want to get rid of it or expand it out to
         | support more things - after all Microsoft, who can't even get
         | app updates to work correctly in their own windows store on
         | their own game launcher, just bought it along with a bunch of
         | other stuff. I guess I should be annoyed that more non-blizzard
         | stuff will end up on it, but boy oh boy has that particular
         | ship sailed.
        
       | BbzzbB wrote:
       | Is there a technical reason why Steam is a such a force in the
       | space? People, myself certainly included, often criticize Apple
       | for taking 30% of developer revenue for merely existing in it's
       | walled garden. Right or wrong, they control the ecosystem, so
       | their ability to monopolize and heavily tax the App Store is
       | unsurprising, they're exercising their pricing power as much as
       | they possibly can.
       | 
       | But how is it that on PC, where we have a mostly open field on
       | which anyone can participate freely without a gatekeeper's
       | blessing, Steam managed to consolidate so much of the gaming
       | marketplace that even a titan like Microsoft is throwing the
       | towel and bowing to Steam's cartelish 30%? I get that being the
       | dominant two-sided marketplace of a given space is a strong
       | network effect and moat, and consolidation is certainly
       | convenient for users (I like having all my purchased games on a
       | single account), but intuition tells me _Bethesda_ doesn 't need
       | Steam's exposure to sell games or make new arrivals known (their
       | announcement will go viral regardless), similarly to Riot,
       | Mojang, Epic and co not listing on Steam. So I've always found it
       | surprising they were dual listing their games in the first place,
       | but the fact they're now entirely giving up on direct selling is
       | a testament to Steam's might in the gaming industry.
       | 
       | Is Steam's product particularly good and hard to reproduce from
       | the publisher's PoV, even one backed by Microsoft, to the extent
       | it is hard to compete against with something like Microsoft
       | Store? Or is this just another case of being early enough to
       | establish the initial brand and let the self-fulfilling network
       | effect kick in - with the userbase acting like gravity to bring
       | in more users and developers - until it's large enough that sheer
       | force of habit/inertia makes it quasi-"indisruptible"?
       | 
       | Either way, I found it fascinating how Valve turned into Steam,
       | whether it was accidental or not, what a homerun pivot. Seems
       | that is the way of the Internet, being first matters more than
       | just about anything, having the superior product (not claiming
       | there is one for game stores) is irrelevant if you're remotely
       | late, it just won't matter how much cash you pour into a
       | Microsoft Store or a Google+. My gut tells me Microsoft is
       | salivating at the idea of buying out Steam, seems like a perfect
       | fit for the conglomerate if it wasn't for the scrutiny it would
       | bring their way while they are positioning themselves as the good
       | FAAMG.
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | I think part of the reason is that Steam is pretty utilitarian,
         | not selfish. Valve is actually pretty much a force for good and
         | haven't tried to use any very dark patterns to make more money.
         | Steam is nice and its developers care to make a program that
         | works well.
        
         | NikolaNovak wrote:
         | My 100 Croatian Lipa:
         | 
         | Steam's value proposition is a single place to conveniently
         | manage all my games, and it works very well as such. It's
         | unobtrusive, comprehensive, manages installs, pre-requisites
         | and updates nicely for me and then gets the heck out of the
         | way.
         | 
         | No publisher-oriented launcher has such proposition. In fact, I
         | put forward that no publisher-made launcher has value
         | proposition of _any_ kind for the consumer - why do I need
         | Uplay, Origins, Bethesda launcher, any of them, let alone all
         | of them? What purpose do they serve, other than an annoying
         | mandatory layer? Why do I need Battle.net for the one game I
         | play on there?
         | 
         | Given the lack of positive value proposition, even seemingly
         | minor annoyances are perceived as massive friction. For
         | example, I find Microsoft's offers infuriating - I cannot
         | understand their subscription tiers or services at all, they
         | all have meaningless generic Xbox names that change every 6
         | months to a different meaningless set of Xbox names, and
         | completely mangle what one can expect as a PC owner, or Xbox
         | owner, or both. I have no idea which Xbox-named offering or app
         | does what and how they relate. It's like IBM naming everything
         | "Watson". I inadvertently committed to a multi-month months
         | subscription thinking one of the games I wanted is available on
         | the cloud, only to discover I was completely mistaken - and it
         | took me a WHILE to confirm that to my satisfaction. I don't
         | know if they are confusing out of ineptitude or intentionally.
         | 
         | Geforce Now, on the other hand, has a meaningful value
         | proposition to me: it lets me play games on the cloud, on any
         | of my devices, and when away from home. That has benefits and
         | value to me that I can clearly understand. It's seamless, it
         | provides clear value to ME, the consumer, and then gets out of
         | the way.
         | 
         | Same with GoG - it lets me download games DRM free onto my
         | machine and save them for the upcoming apocalypse.
         | 
         | Everybody else is just a pain in my kiester :-/
        
           | slavik81 wrote:
           | I own Mirror's Edge on EA Origin. I bought it shortly after
           | release. I still have the box with the CD key. I can still
           | download and install the game. However, I can't launch the
           | game because I've exceeded the install limit of five copies.
           | I need to run the deauthenticator utility on the computers I
           | installed the game on, but that's not possible because those
           | hard drives were wiped years ago.
           | 
           | I generally trust Valve to treat me fairly, but EA, Ubisoft,
           | Konami and Bethesda (ZeniMax) have not earned that same
           | trust.
        
             | ssl232 wrote:
             | It's in this situation where pirating the game is 100%
             | justifiable. You literally own it already.
        
         | dartharva wrote:
         | I have always wondered the same thing; Microsoft is one of the
         | very few companies that is capable enough to resist Valve's
         | dominance. I think all it boiled down to was that in this case
         | Microsoft, by some miracle, actually managed to catch an
         | accurate picture of the wants and needs of their consumers and
         | realised backing down on their Xbox store can easily drive them
         | away. They saw how the general trend of game launchers has
         | mostly only served in making lives more difficult for gamers
         | and decided they'd rather keep the status quo as it is
         | comfortable to them for the time being.
        
         | staticman2 wrote:
         | For some reason none of Steam's competitors are willing to
         | match their features.
         | 
         | The Microsoft store was obviously not designed by the Xbox
         | division and was hostile to gamers wanting to enable modding or
         | customize the installation.
         | 
         | Likely because Microsoft wanted a locked down app store to sell
         | their Surface devices to schools and business.
         | 
         | Steam does things like converting Ps4 and Nintendo Switch
         | controller input to Xbox 360 input, offering forums where
         | people discuss patches and mods, and other features Epic seems
         | uninterested in offering for whatever reason.
        
         | arka2147483647 wrote:
         | My opinion:
         | 
         | - Steam was first, and because of that;
         | 
         | - They have all the features (both for users, and gamedevs)
         | 
         | - They have all the Games
         | 
         | - They have all the Users
         | 
         | In particular, in the Gamedev side, Steam is not a Storefront,
         | they are a platform, much like say, Xbox Live or PSN. For
         | example Steam provides:
         | 
         | - Friends
         | 
         | - Leaderboard
         | 
         | - Chat (Text and Voice)
         | 
         | - Multiplayer/Network api, which handles routing and NAT punch
         | through
         | 
         | - Update/Install delivery globally
         | 
         | - Savegame cloud sync
         | 
         | - etc, etc
         | 
         | Steam docs are actually public, so go take a look:
         | https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features
         | 
         | If you develop your game for Steam, then Steam does a lot of
         | heavy lifting for you.
        
           | bob1029 wrote:
           | I think the user base and market demographics are why no one
           | really complains on the publisher side. There's no other
           | digital store on earth with more whale-like clientele.
        
         | indymike wrote:
         | > Is there a technical reason why Steam is a such a force in
         | the space? \
         | 
         | I'm not much of a gamer - but my five kids are, and I can see
         | the difference. It starts with being multiplatform. Buy once,
         | run on PC, Mac, Linux. Steam's promise isn't cheap
         | subscriptions, or trendy titles. I can buy games with
         | confidence and know they will run - even if school requires a
         | Mac next year or the only machine around is Dad's Linux laptop.
         | 
         | Steam also does a much better job of exposing new titles and
         | player feedback. Shopping Steam is a better experience - even
         | if it isn't as pretty. You know what you are getting when you
         | buy, and the return policy seems fair enough.
         | 
         | It ends with simply working better. For example, last night I
         | loaded up Steam and some PC games from a XBox Live Ultimate
         | subscription. The Steam games worked. None of XBox games would
         | even launch... on a brand new Lenovo gaming machine on Windows
         | 11. Eventually the Xbox app volunteered to fix the messed up
         | installation and ended up leaving 130GB of disk filled with
         | old, inaccessible downloads.
         | 
         | Epic's store shows some promise, but there's a lot of rough
         | edges where it installs some other studio's installer which
         | installs the game. But, the free game thing is pretty nice.
        
         | uejfiweun wrote:
         | I could totally see Microsoft trying to buy Steam in the near
         | future. Not only are they having Bethesda do pro-Steam moves
         | like this and generally supporting Steam, but they have a
         | personal relationship with Valve, as Microsoft is where Gabe
         | Newell started his career. However Valve is still a private
         | company and I can't imagine Gaben will want to give up his
         | money faucet.
        
         | ndneighbor wrote:
         | For one: game developers might have extraordinary knowledge on
         | their requisite game engines and shader programming but tend to
         | loathe the type of logistical work required to deliver those
         | games. Issues like managing and serving updates, DRM, and
         | social features.
         | 
         | Steamworks SDK was one of the very first companies to offer
         | that functionality pre-baked into their offering "free" of
         | charge when companies chose to list on Steam. After a while, it
         | became the default over time.
         | 
         | For many game companies, what usually happens is that initial
         | investment is easy to go along with for the start when spinning
         | up their game store (Origin, Bethesda.net) but eventually hard
         | to maintain as it's hard to commit developers to maintain
         | platforms.
        
           | sgarman wrote:
           | A lot of that functionality is really valuable to game makers
           | and game players. Their controller API is top notch, same
           | with save syncs.
        
         | hendersoon wrote:
         | Steam had the distinct advantage of being first, and they've
         | built a rich storefront with tons of useful features. Forums,
         | reviews, discovery queues, recommendations based on your
         | purchases, bundles, curators, account security (steamguard),
         | etc. Valve also built a development ecosystem with integrated
         | (optional) DRM, achievements, leaderboards, stats, multiplayer,
         | voice chat, controller support with full remapping and such,
         | just a ton of stuff.
         | 
         | As a _consumer_ , Steam is a much better platform than any of
         | the alternatives. I prefer to buy games on Steam, all things
         | being equal.
         | 
         | As a dev studio, Steam takes 30% and Epic takes 12% (7% if you
         | use Unreal engine).
        
           | k12sosse wrote:
           | I've also had dozens of games I own stop being sold on Steam
           | - but I'm still able to download, install, and play them
           | YEARS later. To me, that's good stewardship.
        
       | ivraatiems wrote:
       | Thank goodness. Bethesda's launcher was uniquely awful in a
       | number of unpleasant ways. Slow, prone to crashes, bad user
       | communication, not suitable for use on small monitors. The worst
       | of the launcher apps I have used - and there are so many!
       | 
       | I remember when it was in vogue for every game maker to build
       | their own launcher or even full Steam clone - when EA pulled all
       | its new games from Steam to get people to use Origin, when
       | Ubisoft forced uPlay on you no matter how you bought the game,
       | and so on. Now, it seems like we're pulling back from that
       | situation somewhat - a lot of EA games are back on Steam, for
       | example.
       | 
       | I wonder whether the experiment didn't work, or if it worked, but
       | now the goals have changed again?
        
         | ocdtrekkie wrote:
         | More than likely Valve has offered better deals to these larger
         | companies to get them back in-house. It's very probable EA,
         | Bethesda, Microsoft, etc. all have gotten more favorable terms
         | now, by proving they were willing to leave Steam and roll their
         | own launcher.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | 30% from 0 to 10 million
           | 
           | 25% from 10 to 50 million
           | 
           | and 20% from 50 million on.
           | 
           | They might have even better deals, but at some point 20% for
           | handling everything and supporting payments with potential of
           | fraud, chargebacks etc. in nearly every country should start
           | look like not horrible deal. Remembering what the retail
           | margins were back in the day when they needed to make and
           | ship physical boxes...
        
             | xxs wrote:
             | >at some point 20% ... start look like not horrible deal
             | 
             | Not, if you are Microsoft.
        
               | Godel_unicode wrote:
               | Pay 20% now, or be forced to spin out Xbox via anti-trust
               | ruling in the future. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
        
         | sbarre wrote:
         | With the rise of the Epic Game Store, I think there's more
         | competition in the launcher/store space and I bet the big
         | publishers got better deals which removed the need for them to
         | invest in the ongoing development and maintenance of their own
         | stores/launchers.
         | 
         | It can't be that cheap to maintain an app like Origin or UPlay
         | and all the associated infrastructure, etc..
        
           | Macha wrote:
           | It's not just the store cut. From what I understand, a big
           | part of the motivation of Origin was also to avoid having to
           | compete, at least in consumer perception with the sales.
           | Battlefield 3 at EUR80 while it was a year old looked
           | terrible value when Borderlands 2 had dropped to EUR50 and
           | was regularly 30% off despite being only a couple of months
           | old.
        
           | mjevans wrote:
           | Intangibles are a major cost factor as well. Not just the
           | servers, but an entire authentication and customer support
           | infrastructure.
           | 
           | Scammers are not an easy cost to estimate or an easy value to
           | sell resistance against.
        
         | brendoelfrendo wrote:
         | Microsoft owns Bethesda, and has transitioned to primarily
         | offering its games via Steam or via the Xbox app. I imagine
         | that Bethesda is doing this to align with Microsoft; existing
         | library through Steam (with potential to add them to the Xbox
         | app if they join get added to GamePass, maybe), future releases
         | through Steam and Xbox.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | nimbius wrote:
         | Occhams razor: Microsoft owns Bethesda, so one would naturally
         | assume they would seek to kill off competition to the windows
         | store, or any poor performers that arent driving the
         | appropriate revenue.
         | 
         | the worst part of the bethesda launcher was it existed as a
         | cudgel for Todd Howard and others to effectively silence
         | dissent during the launch of Fallout 76 in 2018 either by
         | flogging it as an excuse to refuse refunds, or using the
         | platform to outright threadlock and silence user complaints and
         | criticism. the launcher directly contributed to the wholesale
         | review bombing of virtually every bethesda title on Steam and
         | even showed up in the class action lawsuits filed during the
         | fallout 76...well...fallout.
        
           | munk-a wrote:
           | I think, honestly, that Microsoft is feeling pretty happy
           | with how things are working with steam right now - they've
           | probably only got to do a very minimal amount of work to
           | integrate with the platform while internally they have MS
           | Game accounts that tie everything together for any of the
           | tracking needs they have. I'm sure they'd love to convert all
           | of the MS Games users to their own store but they've managed
           | to extract a whole bunch of unexpected business from AoE2 and
           | other titles and they're probably hoping to minimize any
           | damage to the ecosystem.
        
       | NikolaNovak wrote:
       | As a matter of principle, I think digital delivery platforms
       | benefit from competition, and we should not be locked down into a
       | single monopolistic, stagnating platform.
       | 
       | As a selfish consumer though, I _hugely_ wish we just had Steam
       | and Netflix:
       | 
       | The Origins and Uplays and Battle.nets of the world exist solely
       | to make my life difficult, refusing to play my game when I want
       | it due to obscure update required or forgotten password or old
       | email account (especially when they are an overlay on top of
       | Steam), and have zero repeat zero positively _zero_ benefit to
       | myself as a consumer. It is blatantly anti-consumer, and not made
       | with customer view in mind.
       | 
       | (Gog.com gets a pass because it allows me to JUST download the
       | game, with no launcher and crap, so essentially going into
       | opposite direction from all publisher-owned platforms and
       | provides a unique value proposition)
       | 
       | Same for Netflix. It's fine. It's good. It's great! Over the last
       | 5 years, proliferation of Disneys, Amazons, HBOs, Hulus, CBS All
       | Access, Paramount Ultra Plus Exclusive Diamond Platinum... the
       | whatEVERs, all they do is make me have to guess which service is
       | content I want to play on. All they are, at any level, is "we
       | want more money for less consumer convenience, and we think we
       | can get away with it due to exclusive content lock-in we refuse
       | to license to the convenient platform".
       | 
       | I understand I'm supposed to vote with my money, but with
       | exclusive lock-in that's difficult. My kid wants their Octonauts
       | and their Stinky & Dirties, dammit :D
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | samtheprogram wrote:
         | > As a matter of principle...
         | 
         | It's not really a matter of principal though!
         | 
         | > [the competing platforms] have zero repeat zero positively
         | zero benefit to myself as a consumer.
         | 
         | The reason Steam and Netflix are so good and continue to exist
         | in such a good state is exactly because of the competition.
         | However, because of exclusivity, licensing, ownership, et
         | cetera, that also means you eventually may want to deal with
         | said competition.
        
         | p_j_w wrote:
         | >I think digital delivery platforms benefit from competition,
         | and we should not be locked down into a single monopolistic,
         | stagnating platform.
         | 
         | I agree with this in principle but I think it's only
         | necessarily true when production and distribution are separated
         | from each other. As it stands now, I don't see much actual
         | competition or innovation in any of the streaming services, but
         | rather the contrary: the experience is worse now than it was 10
         | years ago. The only thing we have is a never ending arms race
         | of new stuff to watch being kept exclusive (which you mention)
         | while the UIs move backwards and prices creep up.
         | 
         | What we have now is akin to the studio system and I don't see
         | why it shouldn't be broken up in the same manner.
        
       | asadlionpk wrote:
       | This is promising news, considering Steam Deck is about to be
       | released this week!
        
       | TillE wrote:
       | You can theoretically solve a lot of problems with crappy,
       | multitudinous game stores - easier payments, lighter software.
       | But the real question is: do I trust that I'll be able to
       | continue downloading my purchases for the foreseeable future?
       | 
       | I trust that Steam will be around for a very long time. I can
       | download DRM-free installers from GOG. Everyone else? I don't
       | know, I have much less confidence.
        
         | legitster wrote:
         | This is something blockchain would actually be very good at
         | solving.
         | 
         | Download a legal copy of the game from anywhere. No DRM, but
         | your license key gets checked against the blockchain.
        
           | dharmab wrote:
           | You would need a separate CDN such as BitTorrent.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | I just wonder how could duplicating the license key be
           | prevented. First by small group and then maybe just stolen
           | from someone. While also preventing loss of it with let's say
           | device.
        
             | nouveaux wrote:
             | A game key could be considered a non-fungible token so this
             | already works on a blockchain. Instead of recording a game
             | key, you record the wallet public key. If you need more
             | privacy, you can use Zero knowledge proofs[0].
             | 
             | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | How would you prevent group of friends from sharing a
               | wallet? Which I see as one thing to do, pool your money
               | and buy each new game to new wallet... Then share the
               | wallet's private key between all.
        
           | mey wrote:
           | The block chain may be able to validate a license to a copy
           | of the game, but that doesn't encompass hosting/delivery of
           | content. The actual content of NFTs, tiny PNGs, are still
           | hosted behind a URL. Putting 60+GB AAA titles out there for
           | all time isn't something a Blockchain itself can solve.
           | 
           | I also don't know how IPFS people would feel if they became
           | the CDN for commercial software.
        
             | legitster wrote:
             | I think it's reasonable to believe that third party CDNs
             | would pop up in the world.
             | 
             | The feature would be that it's structurally decentralized
             | in a way that decouples content creators from delivery.
        
             | Ekaros wrote:
             | Torrents are a thing, but still I won't give my bandwidth
             | for something I paid good money for. Just no.
        
         | causi wrote:
         | I expect we're less than five years away from seeing everyone's
         | Stadia purchases evaporate.
        
           | nimajneb wrote:
           | Yea, I have it, although I haven't used it in a while and
           | plan on cancelling. I made zero purchases on the platform
           | though. I just play the free games.
        
           | ascagnel_ wrote:
           | I've been saying from day one that Stadia should have offered
           | a subscription service similar to what Microsoft is doing
           | with Game Pass. I don't want to pay full-price for games that
           | require someone else maintaining hardware, especially when
           | they're not booking any recurring revenue.
        
             | sbarre wrote:
             | Google would have struggled to get a catalogue for their
             | subscription I think, if only because they had to convince
             | publishers (some that would consider Stadia to be
             | competition) to put in work to get games running on their
             | platform.
             | 
             | I wonder if they tried the subscription thing first but
             | then gave up and just went with the buy model as a least-
             | worst choice at a point in the cycle where it was too late
             | to back out of the whole endeavour.
             | 
             | Stadia uses custom hardware so games can't just run on
             | Stadia as-is, they have to be ported, which requires
             | investment from the game's developers (or a porting shop).
             | 
             | I have to imagine most publishers that Google approached
             | expected them to foot some of the bill for that work, if
             | not all of it.
        
               | Gigachad wrote:
               | The ideal solution would have been charging a fee to use
               | stadia and then just letting people link their steam
               | account in. You still buy the games at full price, Google
               | still gets paid, and you keep the games after they shut
               | down.
        
           | sbarre wrote:
           | The Stadia model was dead on arrival exactly because you were
           | expected to pay full price to "buy" games that you would
           | never actually own.
           | 
           | With Google's reputation of killing products, and the hubris
           | of thinking they could just waltz into the gaming space and
           | be competitive within a year, it's no wonder that no one took
           | them seriously and the product never took off.
           | 
           | Other streaming services like GeForce Now (sp?) let you
           | install games you already own on Steam and play them on a
           | cloud computer, which is a much more attractive model I
           | think.
        
             | vlunkr wrote:
             | It's pretty amazing the Stadia happened at all. From day
             | one everyone predicted how it would die, and so far it has
             | not deviated from that course at all.
        
           | bastardoperator wrote:
           | Sounds optimistic, I'm thinking less.
        
         | mFixman wrote:
         | Why is a launcher even needed? Isn't it better to provide
         | downloads and payments from their website rather than paying
         | 25% of transactions to Valve?
        
           | ajnin wrote:
           | Steam is very convenient for users, many people won't even
           | consider buying a game if it's not on Steam. I guess they
           | have more potential sales this way.
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | >to provide downloads
           | 
           | There are 2 problems with this.
           | 
           | 1. You can't downloaded patches of game updates (with good
           | ux). You would need to downloaded the entire game for every
           | update which is bad.
           | 
           | 2. You can't install the game to the system without a
           | program.
           | 
           | >and payments from their website
           | 
           | Steam can provide less friction to make a payment since
           | someone likely already has payment information attached to
           | their account. A 25% cut is worth it if they can make more
           | than 25% revenue than they otherwise would have made.
           | 
           | There is also the marketing potential of being in the steam
           | store. Gamers looking for a new game can see / find your
           | game. You can see people on your friends list playing your
           | game. You can see friends reviewing the game or getting
           | achievements on your feed.
        
             | simion314 wrote:
             | >1. You can't downloaded patches of game updates
             | 
             | And with Steam(at this moment) there is no way to tell it
             | to "please don't update this game and let me play this
             | version". You can disable the automatic updates but you
             | won't be able to run a game from the launcher if you are
             | not uptodate because the Play button is changed to Update.
        
           | mannerheim wrote:
           | Maybe if you're on Windows, but I've found Steam is pretty
           | reliable on what games will work on Linux, and I figure I can
           | probably get a refund if it doesn't (which I haven't even had
           | to).
        
           | res0nat0r wrote:
           | Steam provides a massive CDN infrastructure, SDK / API
           | integrations for all kinds of things, release manager etc.
           | Plus just being on their ecosystem helps sales too. I
           | personally can't stand any other game launchers and just wish
           | I could get everything on Steam.
        
           | crooked-v wrote:
           | Among other things, Steam Workshop, seamless multiplayer, and
           | automatic cloud syncing are substantial value-adds for many,
           | many games.
        
           | Ekaros wrote:
           | Why is package manager needed on Linux? Isn't it better to
           | download everything as source code and compile yourself?
        
             | NullPrefix wrote:
             | My package manager allows me to see the URL to download it
             | and compile it manually. Does Steam/Bethesda/other game
             | launcher allows this?
        
               | notafraudster wrote:
               | I mean, yes, you can add non-Steam games to Steam, which
               | is the analogue here.
        
           | shuntress wrote:
           | Why is a package repository even needed?
           | 
           | Managing a hundred different games from a dozen different
           | sources is a pain.
           | 
           | If we lived in some fantasy utopia with standardized identity
           | authentication and easily-verifiable-cryptographically-
           | secure-proof-of-purchase then maybe distributed content
           | distribution could make sense.
        
             | Ekaros wrote:
             | DRM with NFT on distributed blockchain sounds like fun mess
             | to solve. With DRM operating correctly and not allowing
             | duplication of licenses and content being permanently on
             | blockchain so game developer going bankrupt wouldn't kill
             | it...
        
           | mikepurvis wrote:
           | The siblings mention some good ones, but another for Steam in
           | particular is the console-like experience available via Big
           | Picture mode. Not only is this a significant
           | aesthetic/ergonomic step up from how you launch software
           | directly from the desktop OS, but it's also able to do some
           | niceties like automatically handling controller mapping-- for
           | example, presenting your PlayStation or Switch pad to games
           | as an xinput device (which is the universal standard for PC
           | gaming).
        
           | adamrezich wrote:
           | we forget that before Steam, the digital downloads for AAA
           | games scene was the wild effin' west. no idea if this ever
           | changed but if you bought Spore at launch, you were limited
           | in the number of times you could download and activate your
           | purchased copy... and if you wanted more, you had to pay for
           | it when the time came. without Steam we might still see
           | various publishers imposing weird restrictions like this.
        
         | dtech wrote:
         | Even if Steam will be going away at some point, I bed an
         | archival effort will start similar to what we've seen for
         | Geocities etc.
        
           | jka wrote:
           | There's already at least one effort to gather a list of games
           | that are no longer available* on Steam: https://steam-
           | tracker.com/
           | 
           | I wonder how many of those can be retrieved (and are
           | playable) from archived copies?
           | 
           | Edit: available meaning "available for purchase" (my mistake,
           | thanks for the corrections)
        
             | Ekaros wrote:
             | Delisted means no longer sold. Unless developer does
             | something shady those games can still be downloaded and
             | played (any third-party DRM not withstanding)
        
               | agilob wrote:
               | How is "delisted" different from "purchase disabled"?
        
               | dharmab wrote:
               | Whether the store page is visible. A publisher might want
               | to keep the page up to direct users to a newer title that
               | deprecates the old one. Or they might hide a page if they
               | no longer have rights. I also noticed that Prey (2006) is
               | delisted to presumably avoid confusion with Prey (2017).
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | Store page is removed for example you can still see
               | community hub: Duke Nukem 3D Megaton Edition
               | https://steamcommunity.com/app/225140/
               | 
               | On other hand purchase might be disabled by developer,
               | but game page is still visible: https://store.steampowere
               | d.com/app/210550/Angry_Birds_Space/
        
             | agilob wrote:
             | It says "Dead Island Riptide" is delisted, but I still have
             | it in my library and still can install it, background image
             | doesn't load. There is another "Purchase disabled"
             | category, looks like it cant be bought anymore, but can be
             | installed.
        
               | dharmab wrote:
               | Delisted usually means "purchase disabled and also store
               | page hidden". Delisted is most common due to IP issues
               | such as expired rights.
        
         | stingraycharles wrote:
         | I see this as is something that legislation could fix: digital
         | licenses should be transferable between digital stores.
         | 
         | If I buy a game in store X, and it's available on
         | store/platform Y, I should be able to play it on both.
         | 
         | Unfortunately, I don't think that's the case.
         | 
         | I recently bought a Nintendo Switch, and although I'm happy
         | overall, some games have very heavy limits built in (think: max
         | number of units in games), and they're also available on
         | PC/steam, but I would have to buy the games twice. I just can't
         | get over myself to do that, I shouldn't _have_ to do it. At the
         | very least make the license transferable! :)
        
           | thfuran wrote:
           | I think that has no sound legal basis but I also don't think
           | that's practical. A launcher like steam isn't just a client-
           | side application and I don't think it makes sense to compel
           | some company to incur the costs of supporting their
           | competitor's customers, which is what that would amount to.
        
             | gjsman-1000 wrote:
             | Surprisingly, Disney figured this out for movies with their
             | "Movies Anywhere" service, powered by something they call
             | KeyChest. You create a "Movies Anywhere" account, and then
             | link digital stores (iTunes, Prime Video, Vudu) to that
             | account. All movies that you purchased from participating
             | studios then appear on all of the linked stores.
             | 
             | It actually works quite well. I can purchase a movie on the
             | Roku Movie Store (powered by Vudu) and have it appear as
             | purchased on my Apple TV with iTunes, and all of the big
             | studios are members so not that many films are missing.
             | 
             | You also now get a Movies Anywhere code in the box of most
             | Blu-ray purchases, which works exactly like you would
             | expect and appears on all the stores as if it were a Roku
             | or Apple TV purchase. (Ultraviolet codes are grandfathered
             | in if you have any of those.)
        
               | thfuran wrote:
               | I'm not saying that Disney should be precluded from
               | undertaking that (and probably exchanging a lot of money
               | with each of the integrated platforms). But I am saying
               | that new streaming start up example.com shouldn't be
               | legally obligated to--at no charge--serve traffic to the
               | entire customer base of prime video, Netflix, Disney+,
               | etc should they decide that they want to get their
               | content through a third party that they didn't buy it
               | from.
        
               | Ekaros wrote:
               | Gog did at one point have gog.com/connect service. Which
               | allowed linking your Steam account and retrieving what
               | games you had there. Then providing your copies on GoG.
               | Still entirely doable and I think nothing stops
               | implementing similar thing.
        
             | ascagnel_ wrote:
             | Steam is an interesting case, because it actually allows
             | others to sell games on their platform -- developers can
             | generate an unlimited number of keys for Steam, and sell
             | those on third-party key sellers. The biggest limitation
             | that Valve puts in place is that the developer can't
             | undercut the Steam storefront _only when selling those
             | keys_ (ie: if a developer sets up their own storefront that
             | doesn't use Steam keys, they can sell on that storefront
             | without price restrictions).
             | 
             | Moving outside of PC games, I think things get very hard to
             | argue for cross-portability. Each platform has a unique
             | (closed-source) tech stack, and that requires paying
             | developers to write code to take advantage of the features
             | available on each of those platforms. Since portability
             | incurs measurable costs, it's hard to argue, for me, that
             | users shouldn't bear some of the brunt of those costs. If
             | legislation were already in place, such a price could be
             | built in to the product.
        
           | vlunkr wrote:
           | I always thought it would be cool if a publisher managed this
           | themselves. If you buy the game directly from them they give
           | you download codes for every platform. Obviously the
           | financial incentive is backwards, and stores might get angry,
           | but I would love it!
        
           | ocdtrekkie wrote:
           | The thing is: This has happened without legislation in a very
           | related industry: First via Ultraviolet, and then through
           | Movies Anywhere. Digitally-purchased movies sync between
           | Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Apple, Vudu, Comcast, Verizon, and
           | DirectTV. Movies from Disney, Sony, Universal, and Warner
           | Brothers all sync. Imagine the challenge of getting all these
           | tech and entertainment competitors on the same page, and it
           | happened.
           | 
           | The problem, however, is Valve. Monopolies have no incentive
           | to open up to sharing with outside entities. Steam likes to
           | seem open with abilities to hand out keys and such and a good
           | API, but the reality is it is all in service of keeping
           | people locked to their platform. Meanwhile, GOG has shown a
           | willingness to hand out licenses for games you own on Steam,
           | Epic Games has talked about being open to such initiatives,
           | etc.
        
             | metalliqaz wrote:
             | It sort-of worked for a while, now it is breaking down. The
             | list of studios that fully participate is shrinking. The
             | media giants are now locked in a battle to capture as much
             | of the streaming market as possible. What a mess.
        
           | mobilio wrote:
           | In theory this sound simple.
           | 
           | But in particle this bridge between stores is anti-GDPR and
           | can be abused from some stores.
        
           | TOMDM wrote:
           | This sounds like it could produce nightmare scenarios for
           | some platforms/consumers.
           | 
           | Say I'm a publisher; I can sell my games for 5% cheaper than
           | all the competing platforms and let my installer/store
           | languish. All it needs to do is let people buy the game, and
           | my competitors can do the hard work of actually distributing
           | the game, updating it, supporting features like community
           | pages, friend lists, steam workshop etc.
           | 
           | People buy the game from me because it's cheaper, and the
           | other platforms can pay the actual cost of supporting that
           | license.
        
             | aloisdg wrote:
             | Fix price will solve that to. France did it for books. A
             | kind of mfrp: Manufacturer's Fixed Retail Price.
        
             | mastax wrote:
             | Steam (and other stores, to a lesser extent) already does
             | this voluntarily. There's an ecosystem of key sellers of
             | various levels of sketchiness - greenmangaming, g2a,
             | cdkoffers - check isthereanydeal.com. It's almost always
             | cheaper than steam, and you get a steam key. Steam gets
             | most of the upkeep cost, and none (?) of the revenue.
        
               | TOMDM wrote:
               | I'd hardly call 3rd party grey market key resellers like
               | g2a something that steam accepts voluntarily.
               | 
               | These keys are often stolen or pirated.
               | 
               | The Steam subreddit has a page dedicated to it
               | https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/wiki/dangersofkeyresellers
               | 
               | The keys from these sites are frequently revoked after
               | they're discovered stolen.
        
               | flerchin wrote:
               | g2a is a buyer-beware scamfest for sure.
               | 
               | However, all of the sites listed at isthereanydeal.com I
               | have tried are not that. It's not clear what the business
               | model is, but they're absolutely depending on steam to
               | deliver and maintain the content, and it's not clear that
               | steam gets any money out of the transaction.
        
               | belval wrote:
               | Frequently is a bit of an hyperbole, a lot of my games
               | come from g2a and I never had one be revoked. Most of the
               | time it's just people buying games when they are on
               | discount and reselling after the discount has expired.
               | 
               | Bethesda games are a good example of that. You can pay
               | 80$ for Skyrim VR or get it on g2a for 20$. This is just
               | because the game is very frequently on sale for about
               | that amount.
        
               | ethbr0 wrote:
               | Pretty sure Steam is using early-Gmail accounting: the
               | cost of the services they provide will continue to
               | decrease, while the revenue per user (read: future,
               | lifetime Steam purchases) will stay flat or increase.
               | 
               | Consequently, it's good business to onboard them, even at
               | an immediate loss.
        
             | thereddaikon wrote:
             | Our society is still learning about and adapting to digital
             | goods. The end goal is obvious but unfocussed, we want
             | digital goods to be treated like physical ones. But how do
             | we get there? How do you craft laws to get that result and
             | things still make sense? I'm not sure anyone knows that
             | yet.
        
             | nouveaux wrote:
             | You can charge a small porting fee to compensate for this.
             | 
             | In practice, I think this actually hurts the established
             | guys. A big reason I prefer to buy on Steam is because the
             | majority of my library is in Steam. A PC gaming library
             | also has more longevity.
             | 
             | In general, I would be reluctant to buy multi-platform
             | titles on the Switch. If porting was available, I would buy
             | certain titles on the Switch or pay to move it to Switch. I
             | would then pay to move everything over to Steam if my
             | Switch died.
        
             | art0rz wrote:
             | You can already do that with Steam[0]. They allow
             | publishers to generate keys for free. You could sell the
             | keys on your own store and skip Steam's 30%(?) cut while
             | reaping the benefits of their software delivery
             | infrastructure. There's a fair use policy[1] involved,
             | though.
             | 
             | [0] https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys
             | 
             | [1] https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/keys#3
        
           | jabbany wrote:
           | Ports are kind of special though... They require extra
           | engineering so it seems unreasonable to require transferable
           | license.
           | 
           | Mandating transferable licenses across platforms means that a
           | PC player who has no intention of ever owning a console
           | device now has to pay for the engineering of the port (and
           | vice versa for console players).
           | 
           | On the same platform, OTOH, this seems like a decent idea.
        
           | agilob wrote:
           | PC games are a lot cheaper than console games, should I be
           | able to buy for PS9 on PC and transfer to Xbox where the same
           | game is for PS40?
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | guiomie wrote:
       | Origin needs to do the same, their integration with steam is
       | awful.
        
         | lrae wrote:
         | No worries, Origin will be replaced soon... by the even more
         | awful EA Desktop Client.
        
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