[HN Gopher] Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world
___________________________________________________________________
Bringing the Framework Laptop to more of the world
Author : m6w6
Score : 175 points
Date : 2022-02-22 16:56 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (frame.work)
(TXT) w3m dump (frame.work)
| Queue29 wrote:
| Will order one the day there is an AMD option.
| twblalock wrote:
| This is the problem with trying to please power users. There is
| no monolithic bloc of them. They all want different things.
|
| AMD vs Intel? Touchscreens? Strong opinions about screen aspect
| ratio and resolution, keyboard layout, touchpads, wifi chipset
| brand, GPU brand, etc.? All there.
|
| I wish the company luck, but they are targeting the most picky
| consumer market there is.
| fbkr wrote:
| Isn't this supposed to be a strength of framework? Their
| machines are pretty modular. Users should get to pick and
| choose AMD vs Intel, keyboard layouts, wifi chipsets without
| framework having to design different machines for each
| configuration.
| twblalock wrote:
| You can have your choice of 3 Intel CPUs, and you can bring
| your own NVME SSD, RAM, and wifi card. Of course the
| motherboard chipset determines which of those will work.
|
| You can't change the CPU brand. Moving from Intel to AMD
| (or from the current Intel CPUs to a newer generation of
| Intel CPUs) would require an entirely different
| motherboard.
| zerocrates wrote:
| Keyboards and wifi are one thing (both already modular) but
| the CPU is integrated into the mainboard and an AMD-based
| board would presumably need different AMD chipsets and so
| on beyond simply the CPU itself. That's "modular" in the
| sense that the chassis is designed for swappable
| mainboards, but it's much more involved to support.
| emptysongglass wrote:
| I remember socketed CPUs being a thing on some ThinkPad
| models.
| twblalock wrote:
| I don't remember any laptop ever that could support both
| AMD and Intel CPUs. The chipsets are different.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Everyone says that, but realistically, at the size of their
| company, I can't imagine they have the resources to design,
| test and support both Intel and AMD designs in parallel at the
| present.
|
| HW development is insanely capital intensive and they're far
| away from the resources of the likes of Asus and MSI, let alone
| Lenovo or Dell.
| deadmutex wrote:
| And then the posts will be "I'll order it once they build a
| custom ARM soc" :).
| aunty_helen wrote:
| They recently recieved a fair chunk of funding so are on the
| growth path. I hope they do release a 15inch AMD based
| device.
| m6w6 wrote:
| I would be really tempted, but there are still a couple things
| putting me off:
|
| * Intel only * Windows only
|
| ... sorry boy and mum are arguing over homework -- gotta run!
| byefruit wrote:
| Intel only at the moment is correct but Windows only? TFA says
| "no OS" as an option, so you're free to install what you like.
| evronm wrote:
| Indeed. Happily using Void Linux on mine. Took some doing
| (kernel downgrade being the most annoying), but it works
| great now.
| bla3 wrote:
| It's possible to install Linux, but it requires a bunch of
| fiddling. And even then power management tends to not work
| great.
|
| I'd love if Linux has as officially supported and just
| worked.
| humanwhosits wrote:
| A pre-install option for linux would increase user trust
| that it'll "just work"
| terinjokes wrote:
| As someone with a Dell XPS 9310 for work where Linux is a
| pre-install option, I can tell you it definitely doesn't
| mean it "just works".
|
| The Framework I got for personal use, on the other hand,
| worked OOTB with a Linux USB installer.
| kaladin-jasnah wrote:
| I have an XPS 13 (forget the model number but I think it
| had an 8th-generation Intel CPU) that came with Linux and
| it definitely wasn't "just works" when I bought it
| (sleep/wake was kind-of broken and such) but a month or
| so later, it did magically start working (and nothing
| else was really broken).
| imilk wrote:
| People have been waiting for a Linux that "just works"
| for decades. And they'll probably still be waiting for
| the next 20 years. But that's not really the point of
| using Linux.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| "But that's not really the point of using Linux."
|
| That philosophy is probably part of the reason, why linux
| on the desktop stays in its small niche inside tech
| circles.
|
| Most people, myself included, indeed want a system that
| "just works" - to get the actual work done. And then if
| the basics work, I can enjoy the full freedom to tweak it
| to my needs in infinity.
|
| But only very few people enjoy "freedom to tinker", when
| it means "mandatory tinkering" to get basic
| functionality.
|
| My best linux times were indeed, when stuff just worked.
| I was really surprised the first time I used a live Linux
| cd and everything "just worked". No manual driver
| installing, like I had known from windows. It booted up
| and everything was just there.
|
| It was different, but it worked. And then I discovered
| the endless possibilities and freedom to change ANYTHING.
|
| But fast forward to today: my quite modern laptop still
| has standby/resume issues on linux, making it hard to
| enjoy it at times. And I don't feel like compiling the
| kernel myself to maybe see a slight improvement.
| imilk wrote:
| I bought a DIY Framework and installed Pop_OS, everything
| was working well after 5 minutes of "fiddling".
|
| So if that's a reason for you to not buy a computer, I'd
| suggest that Linux may not be for you.
| rozab wrote:
| At first this comment made me angry (it's Linux, the whole
| point is user choice, what would be the benefit in
| preinstalling!) - but I suppose System76 have really showed how
| much better things can be with Pop!_OS.
|
| I would expect the vast majority of users will be using Linux
| though, so calling it Windows only seems a little misleading.
| There is an option to get no OS and avoid the Windows tax.
| mohanmcgeek wrote:
| There's a Linux configuration
|
| https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop
| humanwhosits wrote:
| Sure, but when you look at the ordering page, it doesn't
| mention linux as an OS option, just Windows or no OS
| filmgirlcw wrote:
| OK, but devil's advocate, if they explicitly mention Linux,
| that means they have to explicitly support Linux for
| newcomers and experts alike, which for a small company, is
| probably not an insignificant lift, from a customer service
| perspective alone. They are really clear about how things
| are in the DIY and Linux sections of their forum and on
| Reddit/Discord, there are tons of people helping out
| (including employees), but that's a little different than
| being a mainstream laptop company (and not niche like
| System 76 or Tuxedo or whatever) that is also prepared,
| within 6 months of shipping their first product, to offer
| robust Linux support.
|
| I think this is doubly true when you consider the elevated
| support task they have by the nature of how
| upgradable/repairable the laptop is. The number of issues
| I've seen from people (and I'm just an owner who lurks a
| bit in some of the communities) who didn't know how to
| properly insert RAM or have had other more basic problems
| (which is separate from the more widespread issue of
| installing the wifi cards, where the antenna cables were
| legit the most difficult I've ever dealt with and I have
| years of experience -- Framework sent me a replacement
| cable and card and that was great), makes me sympathetic to
| them trying to grow their support teams at an even pace and
| not inviting a bunch of support queries that can tie-up
| even the more established Linux hardware vendors.
|
| So yes, I agree, better Linux support would be great. The
| good news is that it's already becoming an enthusiast
| computer so Linux support, especially on newer kernels, is
| already better than on many other enthusiast laptops (the
| suspend issues and some recent kernel regressions for wifi
| are obviously issues but they aren't isolated to just the
| Framework), so hopefully that will help. But a hardware
| startup can only focus on so many things and if being
| explicitly Linux-first isn't one of those things (and due
| to market size, I think that probably makes sense when you
| have mainstream aspirations), it probably isn't a good idea
| to over-promise in that respect -- especially when the DIY
| options and unofficial support is really strong/encouraged.
| isaac21259 wrote:
| Do you think a significant amount of people who want to run
| Linux will want it preinstalled for them?
| pessimizer wrote:
| I don't, and I suspect that people who would want Linux
| preinstalled don't have much experience in it, and being
| lost would hate it, badmouth it, and badmouth the company
| for making it an option. Installing Linux is quick and of
| trivial difficulty, and if you're afraid to do it you
| should probably work on that fear at a different time
| than when you're also breaking in a new computer.
|
| I would say that installing Linux is like being able to
| tune your guitar or a chef being able to sharpen their
| knives, but it's an order of magnitude easier than either
| of those things.
|
| Agree with sibling that maintaining preinstalled Linux is
| a good sign that all the guts and peripherals are
| compatible, although that might be a perverse incentive
| to use a bleeding edge kernel/distro to accommodate
| flashy hardware. If anything, they should install a
| boring LTS/Debian Stable, completely stock other than a
| custom wallpaper.
| humanwhosits wrote:
| I want to know that the hardware will work with linux,
| and will continue to work with linux. A pre-install
| option is just one way to advertise and convince the user
| that you've tested the hardware to work on linux
| AndroidKitKat wrote:
| It would at least offer the option to a curious consumer
| who wouldn't otherwise feel comfortable installing it
| themselves.
| raman162 wrote:
| I personally do. A "just works" configuration will be
| ideal for me. Anytime I install linux on a new computer,
| I find myself spending too much time tinkering with
| configuration settings to make basic things like
| adjusting keyboard brightness and volume control work
| with the respective keys.
| rmbyrro wrote:
| I agree they should offer a Linux option from factory,
| but you have a fair point.
| imilk wrote:
| It takes 10 minutes to install Linux from a boot drive and
| have everything setup as you need. Bizarre to me that those
| 10 minutes would determine whether or not you spend the
| next x years with a computer.
| jacknews wrote:
| Waiting for a 'Framework Surface'.
|
| Modularity could be a big advantage for smaller companies -
| getting a decent system (cpu/ram etc), and a great screen in one
| package is enough of a challenge.
|
| Add in touchpad, keyboard, hinges, etc, and it's no wonder only
| the premium large manufacturers seem able to pull off an all-
| round great machine.
|
| Plus the tablet form-factor is just more versatile than a
| clamshell laptop.
| toomanydoubts wrote:
| Can someone who owns a framework tell me wether the lapthp
| provides methods for neutering the Intel backdoors(AKA IME)?
| COGlory wrote:
| Those complaining about Linux power drain: are you using deep, or
| s2idle? I find deep to be pretty close to windows with power
| drain on my framework.
| zapdrive wrote:
| You wanna bring it to more of the world? Try adding crypto as
| payment method. I know you have a political stand against using
| crypto (the "crypto is bad for environment" FUD spread by
| traditional financial players), I hope you'll get your heads out
| of you know where and do this to actually bring framework to the
| unbanked masses.
| thaway2839 wrote:
| I'm sure the coal plants that were shutting down until crypto
| miners bought them is just pure FUD.
|
| And I guess Satoshi's paper on Bitcoin, which shows that
| Bitcoin is fundamentally run by whoever has the most CPU power,
| which has naturally triggered a CPU power arms race which has
| led to a corresponding increase in power consumption is also
| FUD.
|
| (Once/if alternatives like Ethereum's Proof of Stake are the
| dominant force in crypto then yes, power consumption will not
| be a problem, but it is a very real problem now, and if it had
| simply been dismissed as FUD then solutions like Proof of Stake
| would never have been created).
| imilk wrote:
| goodpoint wrote:
| Is it Open Hardware? Where are the schematics?
|
| If not, is it really that different than a thinkpad?
| Jerry2 wrote:
| One of the members of my team ordered a Framework Laptop, the
| Professional edition, about 4 months ago to replace his old
| Lenovo. In the first week, he had battery drain issues. Even when
| he put it to sleep, it would drain the battery. He had to keep it
| plugged in at all times. He tried few distros (including the
| older version of Ubuntu they recommend) and the problems
| persisted. His screen also had issues and colors would slightly
| shift. I lent him my colorimeter and he said the monitor would
| lose calibration after several days. He also complained about
| trackpad not tracking his finger properly. In the end, he
| returned it. I think he said you have 30 days to return it.
|
| Hope they fix these issues.
| avl999 wrote:
| I hate this trend of apple style trackpads that take up most of
| the real estate and keep registering false positives when you
| type. I have to use a macbook for work and most of the time I can
| use it just fine in clamshell mode connected to external
| keyboard/peripherals but ocassionally when I am not at my desk
| and have to interact directly with the laptop it's an absolutely
| atrocious experience due to that damn trackpad.
| culopatin wrote:
| To you maybe. I hate small trackpads. I move the arrow more
| than I type and palm detection works well for me, so who's
| right?
| yumraj wrote:
| Any plans for 15" anytime soon?
|
| I just hope my current laptop can hold out till whenever that is,
| else it'll have to be the 16" MBP with $400 for 32GB RAM upgrade
| :(
| abstract_put wrote:
| I'm really hopeful a 15" is not too distant (but seems like it
| might be). I have an aging Dell XPS 9550, but there's not been
| much I've wanted to jump at. I looked briefly at the System76
| Kudu - are there any go-to 15" Linux-friendly workstations?
|
| It seems a lot of developer-type folks have moved to cloud
| focused work, at least in my bubble the raw computing power
| seems to be less and less valued.
| ghostly_s wrote:
| Interesting that the only two new laptops that have tempted me in
| years (the Framework and the new MBP) both arrived at roughly the
| same time yet with wildly different design philosophies.
| gtvwill wrote:
| I find it interesting that the mbp garnered so much attention
| from tech folk. Perf AVG, build eh. Ethos...terrible. yet
| still. Gets people in the door to buy it. Humans are wack.
| adamrt wrote:
| Perf Avg? I thought the M1 was absurdly fast, no?
| ashton314 wrote:
| Opening my Emacs config on a top i9 mbp takes an average of
| 3-4 seconds. On an M1: <1s.
| Sholmesy wrote:
| Not to stir the eternal debate, but if my Vim config
| takes > 100ms, I start debugging what's going on/figuring
| out the responsible plugin.
|
| 3-4seconds would drive me insane :O
| tharne wrote:
| It's not really an issue for many, perhaps even most,
| emacs users. I have a my emacs set to launch when my
| window manager starts on login, after which it stays open
| until I log off or shut the computer down. Emacs and Vim
| have such different workflows that this type of
| comparison isn't all that meaningful.
| ashton314 wrote:
| Nah, that's fair. I've got about _runs ls -l | wc -l_ 143
| packages that I load. My Emacs config is pretty heavy. I
| keep trying to trim it down a bit. Though, sometimes I
| have edit sessions that last several weeks, so it 's not
| _that_ bit a deal. But still.
| wilmore wrote:
| > Perf AVG, build eh
|
| What kind of MBP have you looked at?
|
| I agree with the ethos part, but the current M1 devices are
| pretty unique in the laptop space.
| culopatin wrote:
| What is eh about the build? It's my first Apple device
| after a series of high end Windows laptops and I can't find
| anything on the build that is not solid in comparison.
|
| The only complaint I have is that sometimes the keys leave
| an imprint on the screen but that could just be my bag
| being too tight. I would definitely have this problem with
| a Thinkpad or high end HP anyway. Speakers are the best
| I've heard and the chasis is stiffer than my car's. The
| screen is awesome.... In a thread about a framework laptop
| I don't think I can find something that's "eh".
|
| Unless you're talking about it not being upgradable, but
| that's not a build defect.
| gtvwill wrote:
| Your view on what is a good build is different to mine
| (which it should be!). I as part of my job sometimes fix
| laptops. Used to do it alot more and see alot more models
| but less these days.
| https://www.ifixit.com/News/54122/macbook-
| pro-2021-teardown There. have a read. Whilst some folks
| might marvel at that and think its a work of engineering
| glory.
|
| To me it just looks like the IT equivalent of a john
| deere tractor. It'll get the job done, bit fancy, but
| their going to bleed every dollar out of you to do
| it...and your stuffed if it breaks and you want to fix
| it. Also after you've been in their loop for a
| decade....fat luck breaking out of that companies buying
| cycle easily. Which results in me thinking....eh avg
| build. avg device. Its definitely nothing special that's
| just marketing hype.
| sneak wrote:
| The bottom panel isn't supported well against the
| internal components and it makes a hollow sound, it feels
| like plastic even though it is metal. Compared directly
| to the immediately preceding 16" it feels way less solid
| (I have both). It's also rather ugly, I look forward to
| Apple spending more time figuring out how to get those
| features and capacity into a case that doesn't echo boxy
| plastic PC laptops from 15 years ago.
| gtvwill wrote:
| Pro. It perfs incredibly well in a bunch of areas it was
| expected to.
|
| Con. It can't even run code from a whole segment of apps
| because of archi it's built on.
|
| Result - Perf was nothing out of line with expected results
| from what you'd expect the market to come up with for the
| next range of products.
|
| It's really nothing special from the user end of things.
| outside1234 wrote:
| The MacBook Pro 2021 M1? It is totally something special:
|
| 1) The hardware is first class. Everything is back where
| it should be and improved. You can't get hardware like
| this anywhere else. 2) It is extremely fast. Nothing ever
| slows down. I can't figure out anything to throw at this
| thing that will turn on the fan even. 3) It just works.
| No drama. This is very valuable if your real value is
| writing code and not doing sys admin.
| thaway2839 wrote:
| I'm currently using Linux (Ubuntu 21.10 on a 2015 Core
| i3), Windows (on a 10th gen core i7 laptop with lots of
| RAM but an iGPU), and macOS on an M1 Mac Mini, macOS
| definitely feels the slowest.
|
| I suspect if my Windows laptop was closer to the other
| devices it would be slower, but Linux just feels so much
| faster than macOS in actual tasks. The interactions are
| so much "snappier", whereas with macOS most interactions
| feel like a chore (I think it's the animations).
| noahtallen wrote:
| Seriously. No other laptop on the market can do all of:
|
| - have an insanely long battery life
|
| - stay completely silent
|
| - have excellent performance
|
| The other laptops which can theoretically beat the MBP at
| some tasks utterly fail at being silent or having long
| battery life under load.
|
| And the other silent laptops (chromebook maybe) can't
| manage heavy workloads.
|
| So it is very unique in the laptop space.
| tmccrary55 wrote:
| While I think the Apple Silicon macs are generally high
| end, the most fantastic thing to me is the battery life.
| smoldesu wrote:
| The performance is fantastic for a Macbook. The past 10
| years was like watching Apple trapped in the laptop stone
| age, slowly realizing that replacing the ACPI tables on a
| laptop chip wasn't enough to change it's performance
| profile. With M1, they finally got to do what they wanted,
| albeit at the expense of x86. For the majority of Mac users
| that won't matter though, since Apple was never a
| particularly great steward of the x86 arch in the first
| place (like when they dropped x86 32-bit support because it
| was "too slow", or whatever).
|
| Relative to the rest of the laptop space though? I think
| I'd simply call the M1 "competitive". It's not the first
| laptop we've seen with a powerful iGPU (AMD's Vega graphics
| were first to the party in that regard), and it's CPU
| performance is good but not great (it's effectively a quad-
| core system no matter how you end up using it). On the
| higher-end, it's almost a little embarrassing how hard
| Intel about-faced with Alder Lake and took Apple to the
| cleaners with a more bloated ISA, decidedly worse silicon
| and a complete lack of experience designing heterogeneous
| systems.
|
| So far, the only unique thing I've seen from the M1 is the
| battery life. I anticipate other manufacturers will catch
| up on that front as we transition to big.LITTLE and more
| dense silicon packages, so I'm not really that worried for
| the rest of the industry. I'm glad Apple has made a laptop
| that their fans can enjoy, but x86/32-bit support is non-
| negotiable for my workload, and they have yet to prove
| themselves with higher-end hardware. Time will tell, but
| I'm just happy that the performance wars aren't as much of
| a blowout anymore.
| filmgirlcw wrote:
| Same! I bought both and love them for very different reasons.
| sudders wrote:
| Can't wait for framework laptop to run Linux/Ubuntu stable
| (without battery drain issues)
|
| Then I'll be switching all the developers in our company over to
| a new machine.
|
| (Currently running XPS 13, but we are due an upgrade, especially
| on memory)
| nikodunk wrote:
| Is this an issue for Ubuntu specifically or all distributions?
| Read somewhere that they recommended Fedora 35 for the best
| driver support at the moment, though that'll probably change
| after the next releases of 22.04 and F36.
|
| Awesome that you're switching your whole team to Frameworks -
| my next work laptop will for sure be a Framework too :)
| kkielhofner wrote:
| I've taken to having a Fedora 35 install on a bootable USB
| SSD. I don't prefer it for daily use (Ubuntu/Pop for me) but
| if I'm ever in doubt when debugging a suspected Framework
| issue I boot into Fedora 35 as that's the semi-
| official/supported distro and version.
|
| Generally speaking I haven't found it to be any better than
| my Framework optimized PopOS 20.04 NVMe boot setup:
|
| - Rock solid Intel wifi (mostly thanks to Pop providing
| kernel 5.15.15)
|
| - Fingerprint reader works (custom fprintd/libfprint debs,
| kind of hacky but works)
|
| - PipeWire PPA for better bluetooth audio support
|
| - Suspend-then-hibernate for battery drain issues
|
| - Probably some other stuff I'm forgetting ATM
|
| - Quickemu
|
| - Still basically Ubuntu LTS for the occasionally
| goofy/proprietary stuff I need to run requiring it
| aunty_helen wrote:
| This is a point that people should remember if they're thinking
| about purchasing a framework. This is still very much beta
| hardware.
|
| The battery drain is annoying, it's around 30-50% per night
| depending on what addon cards you have. I've got a setup that
| puts it close to 40% per night so the laptop has to live on
| charger over night if I want to use it the next day.
|
| However, the thing that's really stopping me from using my
| laptop (it has sat in my office for the last 3 weeks with its
| lid closed) is the touchpad.
| https://community.frame.work/t/subpar-touchpad/3962 External
| mouse only.
|
| The mac-book killer was very much hyperbole from paid
| reviewers.
|
| Edit: Also, the I'll throw in the speakers being absolute
| garbage as well. Think 1 step above 90s pc speaker. And the
| sound device has a constant background static when using
| headphones which clicks on when there's sound and then 2
| seconds after any sound being played clicks off.
| omdv wrote:
| Anecdotal, so obviously YMMV.
|
| On battery - I am using "sleep then hibernate", which
| typically means 4-6% of battery drain overnight which happens
| while it is in first ~2hrs of sleep mode. Of course it means
| you now spend 30sec booting up, but I can live with that.
|
| On touchpad - weird, my experience is opposite. I'd say this
| is the closest to Macbook experience I had, no issues
| whatsoever.
|
| Speakers are a bit quiet, agreed, no static or anything, we
| occasionally use it to watch Netflix with my wife, while away
| from TV, interchangeably with her Macbook and definitely
| wouldn't call it garbage.
|
| So, all in all I am in "quite happy" camp. Yes, not Macbook
| killer, but for me it is close enough and without any major
| inconveniences, but with all OSS benefits and presumably
| infinite upgradeability. I use Arch btw :)
| sudders wrote:
| The sleep then hibernate sounds promising. But is it
| something you need to configure yourself?
| omdv wrote:
| On Linux? Yes.
|
| Changing the mode is just a matter of changing one line
| in one file. But getting hibernate to actually work is a
| bit of hassle, especially if you have any kind of
| encryption or non-standard file system. This said - I
| managed to get mine working on encrypted Btrfs.
| hutzlibu wrote:
| At some point I tried to have dual boot with windows and
| encryption and hibernate working. No fun and no success.
| kkielhofner wrote:
| Sleep then hibernate was a game changer. Pretty convoluted
| to setup (PopOS in my case) and still kind of a pain (takes
| longer to resume than I'd like) but definitely an
| improvement.
|
| I have other issues with it (USB-C DP alt-mode, fan noise)
| but I've already ranted about those on HN.
| dheera wrote:
| I also do have the battery drain issue running 21.10.
|
| I'm generally otherwise super happy with it though. The
| speakers don't bother me much, they're good enough for calls,
| and if I'm actually trying to listen to music I'll just use
| actual bluetooth speakers or headphones.
|
| I'm most happy about the fact that they put an actually
| decent screen and key switches. Many other laptops that run
| Linux have shitty 1080p screens and shitty keyboards.
|
| And the fact that I was able to shove in 2TB of SSD and 64GB
| of RAM all bought at market pricing, not at Lenovo or Apple
| pricing.
| aunty_helen wrote:
| Some big points there, I can't even get the 64gb Macbook
| because they decided not to bring more than 32 into my
| country. So being able to get whatever I want from amazon
| at market rates is amazing (and probably the biggest
| feature of this laptop)
|
| There is an issue with ram timings not being supported that
| affects the more flashy ram chips. I was lucky enough that
| it didn't affect the 32gb module I bought but it could've
| been a return (they need to update the supported ram
| timings in the bios but haven't)
|
| I really like the keyboard, although I would prefer the
| layout was more macbooky (the function key kills me but
| I've swapped it with the ctrl) and the screen I'm pretty
| happy with. The 100% / 200% scaling thats supported in
| fedora though is awkward. 100 is a bit squinty 200 is waay
| to big.
|
| I like the laptop but have struggled to use it. I'm
| starting to wonder if my touchpad is actually defective.
| dheera wrote:
| Yeah personally I've settled with 100% with larger fonts.
| I probably spend 90% of my time in web browser + coding +
| terminal combined and they all handle arbitrary
| fractional scaling well from within the app.
|
| And then maybe 5% of the time in graphics editing for
| which it doesn't matter.
|
| For other locally run apps, scaling at 125% or 150% would
| be perfect but I think it's just a matter of time before
| Linux supports it properly without eating CPU.
| abeisgreat wrote:
| Had mine for a couple weeks, has some trouble sleeping /
| waking in Ubuntu 21.10 but aside from that (and the poor
| speakers) it's basically perfect. Trackpad is good and I
| don't see any battery drain issues. Definitely easier
| experience than getting Linux on other modern laptops.
| causi wrote:
| Yes, I'll be excited about version 2. Version 1 just has too
| many missed opportunities. For example, a single type-c bay
| could accommodate two type-A ports, or one port and one
| microsd reader. Wasting a whole one on a reader is dumb when
| most laptops just have one stuck somewhere. Give me a bay
| with a pop-out bluetooth mouse in it. Give me a non-chiclet
| keyboard and a touchpad with real buttons and a dGPU option
| and a removable battery in standard and extended sizes.
|
| Why buy a laptop with four interchangeable ports when my
| normal laptop has two USB-A, one USB-C, HDMI, microsd, and a
| charge port all at the same time? Heck you can't even charge
| the Framework unless you leave one port as USB-C.
| kmeisthax wrote:
| There's been discussions about dual-port expansion cards on
| the Framework forums[0], but the problem is finding a chip
| that will pass through all the things you expect USB-C to
| handle over both ports. This is actually a larger problem
| with USB-C, as each altmode is basically a different spec
| that reuses the same connector, with lots of negotiation
| and custom electrical requirements involved. So any
| moderately niche application will either require custom
| silicon or have absurd limitations.
|
| You could obviously wire up an off-the-shelf USB3 hub
| controller in such a way as to get two USB3 Type-C ports in
| an expansion card. (I don't think two type-As would fit.)
| However, you won't be able to charge the laptop, use
| external displays, or connect external GPUs through either
| of the ports... which is kind of the expectation that
| people have with Type-C ports. If they sold such an
| expansion card, there would probably be plenty of people
| angry that they can't just have this one card for charging
| and dongles, and then fill their other bays with storage
| drives.
|
| Related example: fiber-optic Type-C cables for long-run use
| basically only come in two flavors, DP and Thunderbolt. And
| the source device _has_ to use that one specific altmode;
| there is no downgrading to USB 3 or 2.
|
| [0] https://community.frame.work/t/dual-usb-c-expansion-
| card-moc...
| gtvwill wrote:
| Well common then bunj. Jump on the kicads and fart out a
| add on board for your dual usb type A's, or any of the
| other add ons you mentioned. I mean hell why not just go
| all out and slap usb-c double sided on a single PCB! You
| should be able to cram at least 4 in the same area!
|
| Point is you can do that w/ framework. Fat luck getting
| dell or some other behemoth to design a device you can do
| that with. They have done a stellar job given how many have
| had hopes and dreams to do similar but haven't even got a
| product in people's hands.
| frakkingcylons wrote:
| > The mac-book killer was very much hyperbole from paid
| reviewers.
|
| Hold on. Which reviewers received payments in return for
| positive coverage of the laptop?
| sensitivefrost wrote:
| None of them, they're being massively hyperbolic and
| disingenuous because a piece of hardware isn't perfect the
| first iteration thus the reviewers who think a great device
| is great must be paid.
| zmk5 wrote:
| None of them did. I think this person is just making that
| up.
| qudat wrote:
| Running arch with wayland and sway on a framework. Setting up
| sleep-then-hibernate via systemd works beautifully. I only
| lose a few % overnight.
|
| That's the thing with running Linux as a desktop, you've
| gotta tweak it to get it just right.
|
| Battery life is a non issue for me on the framework. The
| speakers on the other hand is a brutal downgrade.
|
| More thoughts here comparing a 2018 mbp:
| https://erock.io/2021/11/01/framework-vs-mbp.html
| criddell wrote:
| Do your developers have a say in what hardware they use?
| sudders wrote:
| Yes, however we are unanimously siked for framework.
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