[HN Gopher] Tax Advantaged Accounts
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       Tax Advantaged Accounts
        
       Author : auc
       Score  : 27 points
       Date   : 2022-02-21 14:22 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (andrewucho.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (andrewucho.com)
        
       | treebog wrote:
       | One important note for residents of California and New Jersey: if
       | you live in one of these states you must pay _state tax_ on HSA
       | contributions and gains, the same as if it were a regular taxable
       | account. Your HSA is still tax-advantaged at the federal level
       | though
        
       | NAHWheatCracker wrote:
       | I didn't realize my Roth IRA contributions limits are curtailed
       | starting at ~$125k income.
       | 
       | My income is around that, although I guess I wouldn't hit the
       | limit due to maxing my 401K.
       | 
       | What would happen if I contributed too much to an IRA one year?
       | Would I have to pay a penalty during tax season? Would I get the
       | difference back in cash?
        
         | auc wrote:
         | https://www.investopedia.com/articles/retirement/04/042804.a...
         | 
         | "If you contributed to a Roth when you made too much to qualify
         | --or if you contributed more than you're allowed to either IRA
         | --you've made an excess contribution. That contribution is
         | subject to a 6% tax penalty"
        
         | auc wrote:
         | You can completely avoid this by doing a backdoor roth ira
         | though.
        
           | senkora wrote:
           | Note that congress is interested in closing this however:
           | 
           | https://www.fool.com/investing/2022/01/21/you-can-still-
           | do-a...
        
             | auc wrote:
             | Yes, the BBB plan would close the backdoor loophole, but
             | that's if it passes and it would be closed 10 years from
             | now.
        
               | senkora wrote:
               | I'd welcome that, but it's new information to me and I
               | can't find confirmation of it. The sources I find all say
               | it could potentially be banned retroactive to the start
               | of this year.
        
               | auc wrote:
               | Actually, it seem you are right. If BBB passed, they
               | would close the loophole at end of year.
               | 
               | The 10 year rule applies to a traditional -> roth
               | conversion to high income earners.
        
       | senkora wrote:
       | This is a really good article and I highly recommend reading
       | through it. It collects a lot of great info in one place.
        
         | PopAlongKid wrote:
         | But it has several errors/omissions. I understand it is meant
         | to be a high-level overview, but that still means what is
         | included should be accurate. I'll contact the author as he asks
         | at the site, but want to mention the items here because I don't
         | know how long site updates may take. Plus, I'm sure that here
         | I'll get feedback on whether my input itself is flawed!
         | 
         | Terminology: in the tax preparation industry, "pre-tax" and
         | "post-tax" usually only refer to _contributions_ (not account
         | types) that are or are not (respectively) excluded from current
         | income. _Earnings_ in the account over time are either tax-free
         | or tax-deferred (depends on account type and what the
         | distributions of said earnings are eventually used for), and
         | _distributions_ are either taxable (possibly with penalty), or
         | tax-free.
         | 
         |  _HSA_ - these are indeed like a Traditional IRA  "on
         | steroids", but calling it "a pre-tax account that is only
         | allowed to spend money on healthcare related items" is
         | incorrect. Distributions from HSAs can be spent on _anything_ ,
         | but they are taxed as ordinary income if not spent on medical
         | expenses. Also, before age 65, distributions not spent on
         | medical expenses receive a 20% penalty as well as regular tax.
         | So, at age 65, it essentially turns into a regular Trad. IRA
         | (distributions are taxable), except if you want, you can pay
         | your Medicare premiums and other health expenses tax-free from
         | the HSA.
         | 
         | An HSA can either be through an employer or opened directly by
         | the individual. If there are other tax-advantaged employer
         | health expense arrangements (or Medicare coverage),
         | contributions to HSAs maybe limited. I have known of the
         | benefits of HSAs for years but always felt the employer subsidy
         | for non-HDHP insurance coverage was a better deal; however if
         | you don't have employer insurance coverage, HSAs are probably
         | the best way to go. See IRS Publication 969 for more details.
         | 
         |  _401k_ -  "No access until minimum age 55". But what's worse,
         | there is essentially no access at all while you are still
         | employed with that employer, in other words you can't take
         | _any_ money out unless the plan allows it (and most don 't),
         | even if you are willing to pay tax & penalty. (There may be a
         | loan option, but that is a bad idea for several reasons).
         | 
         | "For self-employed people, I would look into a SIMPLE 401K. "
         | For self-employed people with no employees of their own, a solo
         | 401k (401k with only the owner as a member) allow for much
         | higher contribution levels than SEP-IRA, especially at lower
         | profit levels.
         | 
         |  _IRA_ -  "with an income of $140k, one cannot make ANY
         | contribution, at least directly. " False. With even a little
         | earned income, _any_ taxpayer can make a contribution to a
         | Trad. IRA no matter their total income (AGI). What the income
         | limit pertains to is the deductibility of contributions to
         | Trad. IRA (pre-tax or post-tax). And there is also an income
         | limit that prevents any contributions to a Roth IRA at all.
         | Until recently there was an age 70.5 cut-off on making
         | contributions.
         | 
         | " IRAs do not allow access until minimum age 59.5" -- well they
         | do, but with a 10% penalty (other than a few exceptions for
         | special purposes). One feature not many understand is that at
         | any age, you can convert money from Trad. IRA to Roth, pay the
         | tax, and then after five years you can take that money out
         | penalty-free from the Roth. So if you can afford to pay the tax
         | now and wait five years, you can get some or all of your money
         | out of your IRA at any age without penalty.
         | 
         |  _Section 529 plans aka QTP_ -  "One can switch beneficiaries
         | tax free up to $70k (double for couples) by "front-loading" or
         | "superfunding", although there are federal gift tax
         | consequences". This is really mixing up several different
         | things. First, it is extremely unlikely that anyone would end
         | up paying any gift tax on contributions to a 529 plan, although
         | there may a tax reporting requirement (Form 706). Also,
         | switching beneficiaries does not have anything to do with a
         | $70K limit. What is being referred to is that one can
         | contribute up to five year's worth of gifts all at once, each
         | under the annual reporting threshhold for gifts, instead of
         | having to spread the contributions out over five years to avoid
         | reporting (and again, even with reporting, it is extremely
         | unlikely any gift tax would be owed).
        
           | auc wrote:
           | Yes, I am the writer of this. Thanks for the pointers!
           | 
           | About the "pre-tax" and "post-tax" terminology, you are
           | right, I should change "post-tax" to refer to when
           | distributions are tax-free. I had to keep the table to a
           | certain width, so had to come up with short terminology.
           | 
           | I think calling an HSA a "a pre-tax account that is only
           | allowed to spend money on healthcare related items", because
           | that's how the government refers to it.
           | https://www.treasury.gov/resource-
           | center/faqs/Taxes/Pages/He... "Health Savings Accounts (HSAs)
           | were created in 2003 so that individuals covered by high-
           | deductible health plans could receive tax-preferred treatment
           | of money saved for medical expenses". The rest of your point
           | on HSAs stand though.
           | 
           | IRA - "with an income of $140k, one cannot make ANY
           | contribution, at least directly." Yes, this was a typo, meant
           | it specifically only for Roth.
           | 
           | "One feature not many understand is that at any age, you can
           | convert money from Trad. IRA to Roth, pay the tax" I briefly
           | mention this in the post, but left out details for brevity
           | sake.
           | 
           | "So if you can afford to pay the tax now and wait five years,
           | you can get some or all of your money out of your IRA at any
           | age without penalty." I do not think this is correct in the
           | normal case. You must be 59.5 years of age unless you qualify
           | for an exception. Also, you wouldn't want to take this money
           | out early anyway unless you direly needed to.
           | 
           | For your 529 point, I only hinted at this and could've worded
           | it better, but switching beneficiaries and the $70k limit is
           | relevant if you have a 529 for an unborn child that you are
           | accumulating. I'll reword this.
        
           | tradertef wrote:
           | Please note: Solo 401k = Individual 401k.
        
       | nablags wrote:
       | Interesting information, but I wish there was an easier way to
       | keep track of this stuff
        
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       (page generated 2022-02-21 23:02 UTC)