[HN Gopher] Ask HN: What books are recommended to learn the semi...
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Ask HN: What books are recommended to learn the semiconductor
industry?
I want to understand the ins and outs of the semiconductor
industry. What resources would you recommend for beginner,
intermediary and technical person?
Author : allie1
Score : 69 points
Date : 2022-02-19 17:48 UTC (5 hours ago)
| mhh__ wrote:
| Bits on chips
|
| Hennessey and Patterson's computer architecture.
| tester756 wrote:
| is semico modern version of "rocket science"?
|
| "oh c'mon it ain't semiconductor engineering!"
| victorbojica wrote:
| You could try checking this out. Seems like a good starting
| point. The videos are very detailed.
| https://youtube.com/c/Asianometry
| agumonkey wrote:
| There's also the usual Sam Zeelof channel
| https://www.youtube.com/c/SamZeloof
|
| oh and Jeri Ellsworth https://www.youtube.com/c/jeriellsworth
| hackernewds wrote:
| Heads up it's heavily Asia centric. Bit biased, but also
| dangerous because it's not comprehensive.
|
| Good way to learn about TSM nonetheless
| sidkshatriya wrote:
| > Heads up it's heavily Asia centric.
|
| Semiconductor manufacturing by now is heavily Asia centric.
| So it is natural for a YouTube channel about Semi conductor
| manufacturing to be Asia centric. That's where most of the
| world production is taking place!
|
| I've seen the YouTube channel and it pays attention to ASML
| for example which is based in Europe. It doesn't ignore
| important players, even if they are non-Asian.
|
| > but also dangerous because it's not comprehensive
|
| Describing something as "dangerous" because it is not
| comprehensive is going too far. You can watch this channel
| and supplement your viewing with videos from other channels.
| Like any normal YouTube viewer does.
|
| Nothing is ever truly comprehensive.
| qbasic_forever wrote:
| Learn the Mandarin language. Taiwan is the epicenter of the
| cutting edge work in the industry. China is the powerhouse of
| production for it too. Both speak Mandarin natively and it would
| behoove you to understand it and their cultures.
| sidkshatriya wrote:
| If you had a decent Ph. D. from anywhere in the world in
| Semiconductor technology, I'm sure the fabs in Taiwan would
| still be interested in hiring you.
|
| Even if you didn't know a single word of Mandarin. (Though in
| that case they might expect you to know English at Minimum)
| deltaonefour wrote:
| In Taiwan you have to learn english to get a phd.
|
| Additionally, you should know Taiwan sources many parts of the
| production process from technologies in other countries.
|
| For example ASML is the company that actually makes the EUV
| machines that etch the patterns onto the silicon, and that
| company is Dutch. In addition to that the lenses used in the
| EUV machines are custom made from Carl Zeiss, a German company.
|
| Both of the aforementioned technologies are highly advanced and
| there is no way for TMSC to replicate each one.
|
| Taiwan does not hold a monopoly on semiconductor technology.
| You should note that Korea (Samsung) also holds second place in
| this area and is not far behind.
|
| China is actually pretty behind in the semiconductor race.
| Worse then intel as of right now.
| jajajaja123 wrote:
| If you have Telegram there are a lot of books free to download on
| this channel: https://t.me/embedded_library
| andi999 wrote:
| From a business or from a physics perspective?
| allie1 wrote:
| Business/investment perspective
| ghaff wrote:
| From a business/investment report, most of what's in books is
| going to be pretty much historical at this point. Doesn't
| mean not worth reading though--e.g. Andy Grove's Only the
| Paranoid Survive. Industry analysts (both financial and IT)
| can be good sources for current information--although a lot
| of that kind of thing is expensively gated. There's also just
| talking to people. After all, that's a good part of what
| analysts do--though they may have a greater level of access
| than you do.
| readingnews wrote:
| Define "learn semiconductors industry"...
|
| I mean, you might say "I want to learn medicine" and people would
| take that many ways.
|
| I studied EECE (electrical and computer engineering) in my BS,
| then Physics, and my Ph.D. is in Computer Engineering, minor in
| CS, but very specifically on VLSI and chip-making in the graduate
| school. I am saying this just to note: When you say
| "semiconductors industry" my immediate thought is you want to
| learn VLSI.
|
| So, do you want to learn VLSI? Half the VLSI population will
| direct you to Westes book: https://www.pearson.com/us/higher-
| education/program/Weste-CM... and the other half will direct you
| to Jan Rabaeys book:
| http://bwrcs.eecs.berkeley.edu/Classes/IcBook/ I read both.
| Rabaey is a great writer and I prefer his book quite a bit.
|
| Do you want to learn the Architecture of CPUs? The bible is
| Hennessey and Patterson: https://www.elsevier.com/books/computer-
| architecture/henness... However, there are several versions (not
| editions) so be aware of RISC vs ARM and also one is HUGE and one
| is a subset of the main one (for example, this book: Computer
| Organization and Design, David A. Patterson, and John L. Hennessy
| is a subset of the "A quantitative approach" I linked to at
| elsiver).
|
| I would first figure out or define if you want to learn
| semiconductors by themselves (the first two books I referenced,
| which will also teach you CMOS design and high speed digital
| circuits) or end to end architecture of CPUs (Hennessy and
| Patterson), or something else (e.g. there is also the
| manufacturing of chips, which Weste and Rabaey cover to some
| degree, but there are even more serious books on, for example
| Rabeays book on 3D ICs).
| amelius wrote:
| Yeah, semiconductor industry could also mean: material
| sciences, quantum physics, chemistry, EDA tools, or even
| management.
| allie1 wrote:
| Much appreciated! I dont quite know yet which routes to take. I
| need to understand the ecosystem, manufacturing, different
| semicodnuctor uses, architecture, manufacturing.
|
| Planning on spending the next two years getting up to speed so
| I can navigate the field from an investment standpoint
| deepnotderp wrote:
| If you're interested in an investment standpoint check out
| Asianometry on youtube
| readingnews wrote:
| Ahh, well, Rabay and Weste have a short chapter on
| manufacturing. The Hennessy and Patterson book does as well,
| albeit shorter. Architecture of semiconductors is going to be
| Rabay and Weste. Architecture of CPU is going to be H&P book.
| The ecosystem of it all (packaging, die layout, etc, is going
| to be in more specific books).
|
| Do not forget that although H&P will cover architecture,
| today architecture is done from the behavioral level down,
| e.g. they design what they want the chip to do, synthesize
| that in some Hardware Description Language (HDL, like Verilog
| or VHDL) and then they have a huge team of engineers who will
| optimize parts of that, as the synthesis is not totally
| optimized. Then on top of that, another team of engineers
| will optimize each component or module for speed by sizing
| the transistors appropriately.
|
| I am going to admit, I know from a hand-waving level end to
| end manufacturing, so I could not point you at a very good
| resource for understanding the actual "boots on the ground"
| process of today's lithography. Again, in Rabaeys 3D IC book
| there are great sections on the processing of 3D ICs which
| would give you some insight into the process today.
|
| Hope that helps some.
| Koshkin wrote:
| Gotta mention the timeless classic by Mead and Conway here.
| tdullien wrote:
| "The history of semiconductor engineering" was a great read.
| oneofthose wrote:
| Microchip Fabricarion has its flaws but gives a good high level
| overview includinh bringing, test and packaging:
| https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1203098.Microchip_Fabric...
| momentum115 wrote:
| This blog has been very helpful to follow the recent trends and
| players from an investors standpoint -
| https://www.fabricatedknowledge.com
| payne92 wrote:
| Great book on the early industry:
|
| https://www.amazon.com/Makers-Microchip-Documentary-Fairchil...
| adhesive_wombat wrote:
| ITRS roadmaps were a very interesting read up to 2017 when they
| were stopped:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Technology_Roa...
|
| I haven't looked at the IRDS roadmaps, but they're free with some
| registration to the IEEE.
| sgeisenh wrote:
| Hard to answer this question well without a little bit of
| additional context. I'm very focused on the software side of
| things, so I am mostly familiar with resources that tackle how
| software interacts with various platforms and architectures.
|
| I can recommend some resources in that vein (maybe they'll be
| useful if you/the reader have a software background):
|
| The most frequently recommended book from a software perspective
| is "Computer Systems: A Programmer's Perspective"
| (http://csapp.cs.cmu.edu/3e/home.html).
|
| For a nice gentle intro, you can also read "The Elements of
| Computing Systems" (https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/elements-
| computing-systems) that accompanies a course called
| "Nand2Tetris".
|
| George Hotz also compiled a list of topics to cover to learn the
| computing stack from bottom-to-top
| (https://github.com/geohot/fromthetransistor).
|
| These resources are mostly software-oriented, so they wouldn't
| give you much insight into modern chip fabrication, but if you're
| coming from a software background, may prove to be useful for
| building on what you already know.
| tims457 wrote:
| I know you asked for books, but this Knowledge Project podcast is
| too good to leave out if you haven't heard it.
|
| https://fs.blog/knowledge-project-podcast/the-ultimate-barga...
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(page generated 2022-02-19 23:01 UTC)