[HN Gopher] Happy 15th birthday Hacker News
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Happy 15th birthday Hacker News
        
       Author : andrelaszlo
       Score  : 1314 points
       Date   : 2022-02-18 11:39 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.ycombinator.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.ycombinator.com)
        
       | ziml77 wrote:
       | dang, that's an impressive amount of time to maintain quality
       | content and discussions on the internet.
        
       | launchiterate wrote:
       | Dang 15 years! Happy birthday and congratulations PG!
        
       | Red_Tarsius wrote:
       | Fifteen years gone by       watching tech fads come and go.
       | Was that time well spent?
       | 
       | This website had a huge influence over my worldview and I often
       | find myself searching through the archived comments for all sorts
       | of topics. Here's to 15 more years!
        
       | BaldricksGhost wrote:
       | HN is one of my favorite daily reads! Here's to the next 15 years
       | and many more.
        
       | sharmin123 wrote:
        
       | zapjpn wrote:
       | Happy Birthday!Dan Sheng Ri omedetou
        
       | wilmoore wrote:
       | Happy birthday HN. I absolutely love this community. Once I
       | started reading HN somewhat frequently, there is no question that
       | I became a better developer, thinker, researcher, and writer. The
       | topics shared here seem to have no rival anywhere else on the
       | internet ... at least, not as far as I am aware of.
       | 
       | I think this is a good time to admit that when I first came here,
       | I was a bit shy to post anything about tech or programming, but
       | by hanging out here and practicing what I learned here, I
       | eventually felt worthy of contributing.
       | 
       | Thank You.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | ColinWright wrote:
       | The actual start was some time before that:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-09
        
         | hsn915 wrote:
         | Interesting. The first post was on that date (October 9)
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1
        
         | guiambros wrote:
         | Ha, almost no comments! I'm glad this has evolved over the
         | years; the comments are the main reason I keep coming back.
        
         | jeffwass wrote:
         | Whoa! So weird to see pg and sama usernames as green!
        
           | 11thEarlOfMar wrote:
           | And Arrington voted down to 'dead'.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | I've been meaning to do something about those troll
             | comments because they were posted several years after the
             | original threads and people are still getting confused by
             | them. (Needless to say they had nothing to do with
             | Arrington.) There were 500+ comments all posted within an
             | hour, so obviously by a script. Edit: They were dead not
             | because they were voted down, btw, but because we killed
             | them much later. I thought that would be sufficient but it
             | wasn't.
             | 
             | I have a hunch that was what prompted pg ("I never write a
             | line of code unless I have to") to close old threads to new
             | comments.
             | 
             | Edit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30387562
        
               | Melatonic wrote:
               | I have no data or examples to back this up but very
               | recently I have been noticing what seems to be a lot more
               | comments with what seems to be intentionally divisive
               | language and/or generic comments that do not seem to have
               | much to do with the OP. Nothing this obvious but it was
               | setting off some of the same flags in my head as some
               | Reddit threads. Could just be that I am paranoid though
               | :-D
        
             | sillysaurusx wrote:
             | Fun fact, I'm pretty sure that was the first troll account.
             | I.e. the first account made explicitly to troll.
             | 
             | Arrington was something of a meme back in those days.
        
         | tmvnty wrote:
         | Yes it is. Also for reference, here's list of number 1 posts on
         | HN since that day: https://hnhd.io/
        
         | avg_dev wrote:
         | Hard to remember that YouTube was once not owned by Google.
        
         | divbzero wrote:
         | HN didn't exist yet before 2006-10-09:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-08
         | 
         | Here are all the days with posts from 2006-10-09 through
         | 2007-02-19:
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-09
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-10
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-11
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-12
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-13
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-14
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-15
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-17
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-22
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-12-14
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2007-02-19
         | 
         | What happened in between? Was HN tweaked and then relaunched?
        
       | upopoli wrote:
        
       | thatguyagain wrote:
       | Love this site
        
       | mfrw wrote:
       | I think what I owe to this place is me transforming from a dumb
       | fellow who would say "This ${shiny_thing} solves world hunger &
       | ${everything_else} is wrong!" to "Yeah, naah ... everyone has a
       | point of view and is right from their vantage point"
       | 
       | tl;dr I think this platform made me more humble!
       | 
       | A big "thank you" to the community :)
        
       | woldenron wrote:
       | So how many more until we get dark theme?
        
         | InCityDreams wrote:
         | 'Materialistic', on android/ playstore. Love hn, and am greatly
         | appreciative I can't (or can't find how to....not that I want
         | to) vote down!
         | 
         | Asking for my apple friends...is there a similar app in the
         | walled garden?
        
       | yakochakri wrote:
       | Actually, I came here to submit my link but after seeing the
       | interaction rate I found that I am wrong. Happy Birthday, HN.
        
       | eezurr wrote:
       | Thank you to the moderation team for keeping HN a pleasant,
       | educational corner of the internet.
        
       | HHalvi wrote:
       | I discovered HN around 2012, been visiting this site the first
       | thing every morning for a decade now.
       | 
       | Happy birthday HN :)
        
       | atum47 wrote:
       | I've been coming here daily since 2018, before that I use to go
       | to /g/. Difference is that over here I can get insights from
       | highly intelligent people without being called a ret*d.
       | 
       | Thanks Dang
        
       | seandoe wrote:
       | I know people are always talking about the downfall of the web,
       | but doesn't hackernews show that the spirit is alive and well?
       | And further, great sites don't have to devolve into shit. I don't
       | use social media, so to me the web _is_ places like hackernews
       | and the great resources it typically references. Cheers and thank
       | you all.
        
       | anonu wrote:
       | > On Having Balls, Part II: Staying Hungry (hotornot.com) > 67
       | points by matt on Feb 19, 2007 | hide | 3 comments
       | 
       | Was curious about this post. Found it here [1]. Reading this was
       | interesting and felt a bit like going back in a time-machine. Hot
       | or Not was a fantastic site -because it inspired a lot of my
       | friends and myself in the early 2000s to build similar things.
       | One thing I didn't realise is how much money the site was making
       | then. Wikipedia claims it was doing $7m in revs in 2008
       | 
       | [1]
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20070419061100/http://james.hoto...
        
       | tannhaeuser wrote:
       | Took me a while to find out where the cool kids had gone from
       | Slashdot back then ;)
       | 
       | Speaking of which, let's keep HN a liberal and welcoming place
       | also for corps/startups (but not astroturfers) where key
       | developers, experts from non-IT, CEOs/CTOs can have a voice as
       | that's what makes HN unique IMO.
        
         | jillesvangurp wrote:
         | Ah, I miss the old Slashdot. It took me a while to become a
         | regular here as well. Slashdot got a bit too serious/corporate
         | at some point and the founders eventually got out and at some
         | point I just moved on as well. The last time I left a comment
         | there was twelve years ago or so. I actually just logged in
         | just to see if my account is still there. Karma still excellent
         | :-).
         | 
         | I like HN, but it could do with people being maybe a bit less
         | uptight and a bit lighter sometimes. The comment section seems
         | to have quite a few pedantic know it-alls taking themselves way
         | to seriously; just like slashdot used to. Welcoming is maybe
         | not a term I'd necessarily use for this.
         | 
         | Anyway, happy birthday HN!
        
           | mindcrime wrote:
           | _I like HN, but it could do with people being maybe a bit
           | less uptight and a bit lighter sometimes. The comment section
           | seems to have quite a few pedantic know it-alls taking
           | themselves way to seriously; just like slashdot used to._
           | 
           | That's a fair point, but at least the one thing we don't have
           | here (for the most part) in comparison to /. is the steady
           | stream of comments of the
           | 
           | - GNAA
           | 
           | - In Soviet Korea Only Old People Spy You With Email
           | 
           | - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those
           | 
           | - X is dying, Netcraft confirms it.
           | 
           | - etc.
           | 
           | sort. Not that some of that stuff wasn't funny for a moment,
           | but it definitely grew stale after a while.
        
             | echelon wrote:
             | "Hot grits", obscene ASCII art, homophobia, racism, nazi
             | jokes... The comments section on Slashdot was downright
             | offensive. I never understood why Slashdot tolerated these
             | things. They killed their own community.
             | 
             | HN was immediately the opposite: a place you could read the
             | comments _before_ the article.
        
           | allochthon wrote:
           | There's definitely a contingent in the HN comments with a bit
           | of an antisocial streak. I wish people approached comments
           | they take issue with with more of a pedagogical approach,
           | starting with interpretive charity and trying to help the
           | commenter see things in another way.
           | 
           | I'd actually use the term "welcoming" in this context.
        
             | fartcannon wrote:
             | People get paid to promote shit on HN. It's a job you can
             | get. There's no hope for the old internet these days. You
             | can welcome the spammers, if you want, but all you're gonna
             | get is spam.
        
               | [deleted]
        
         | ignoramous wrote:
         | > _...welcoming place also for corps /startups_
         | 
         | news.yc, like all other mimetic communities on the web, has its
         | flaws. For ex, it reserves plenty wrath and fury for a certain
         | type of corps and upstarts. Not sure if that's a good or a bad
         | thing; but, It is _a thing_.
        
         | ilamont wrote:
         | Slashdot at the time was turning into a bit of a swamp, partly
         | from its bad threaded commenting system, but mostly because of
         | a constant addition of low-value "first" comments, needless
         | attacks, and dumb links (Goatse, Rickrolling, etc.)
         | 
         | HN came around at the right time, and really had a better
         | community with a good signal:noise ratio. The moderating system
         | (flagging, up/down votes, and of course @dang and his
         | predecessors) really helped.
         | 
         | One thing that's really impressed me as time has gone on is how
         | far the expertise has expanded. I have bookmarked a bunch of
         | users who consistently add solid insights, often with deep
         | domain expertise sometimes from very unexpected quarters
         | (diesel technicians, biologists, farmers, artists, musicians
         | ...). They include @Animats @jdietrich @bkohlmann @nonbel
         | @tptacek @zackmorris @jurassic @tamilama @patio11 @ries
         | @nimbius @breakingcups @noduerme @300bps and many more.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | We even got the root node ;)
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=cmdrtaco
        
           | CSMastermind wrote:
           | Wow that's a name I haven't thought about in a long time.
           | 
           | I was in high school in the early 2000s and Slashdot was like
           | a haven for me.
           | 
           | I grew up in a town where I didn't know anyone in technology,
           | let alone professional programmers.
           | 
           | But thanks to the internet I could get onto Slashdot and talk
           | to other nerds and interact with real live professional
           | programmers.
           | 
           | I haven't logged into my account in years but in hindsight
           | that site meant a huge amount to me.
        
       | kevwals wrote:
       | Started from the bottom now we're here.
        
       | gstipi wrote:
       | HN is the only place where I feel truly comfortable and at home.
       | Through divorce, addiction, and desperation of all kinds. Thank
       | you and to another 15 years.
        
       | rdl wrote:
       | This remains my favorite forum on the Internet without
       | customizing things. Curated set of twitter or fb or other friends
       | are pretty good too, but the new user experience without
       | customization here is amazing.
        
       | mmaunder wrote:
       | Happy birthday HN and shout out to all the OGs still here. Thanks
       | to the founders and the mods for creating a more cerebral space
       | on the web.
        
       | jgrahamc wrote:
       | Wow. I've been hanging out here for 15 years.
        
         | rglullis wrote:
         | Today I learned that I joined HN before jgrahamc. I think I
         | will substitute my Slashdot 5-digit UID for my HN join date as
         | my favorite nerd-humblebrag.
        
           | jgrahamc wrote:
           | Me and my 6-digit /. UID bow down before you. Now, how many
           | digits in your CompuServe ID?
        
             | rglullis wrote:
             | I can't win them all. You got me there, but only because I
             | never joined it in the first place?
             | 
             | Now I am trying to remember if there was anything special
             | about BBS's that could be used to identify old-timers.
        
               | mindcrime wrote:
               | Oldest dated Fidonet message maybe? :-)
        
           | mindcrime wrote:
           | Hah... I remember feeling shameful about my 5 digit /. UID
           | because everybody knew the _real_ OG 's had 4 digit ones!
           | 
           | God that brings back memories. I checked my /. profile just
           | now and see that I still have an AIM id and an ICQ id listed
           | there. Yikes. And the email address points to a domain I
           | haven't owned in like 15 years. At least the jabber address I
           | had listed is actually still active.
        
             | sophacles wrote:
             | I remember refreshing slashdot to see the announcement
             | introducing accounts. Teenage me decided to be one of the
             | "the concept of accounts on this site is dumb" folks. (For
             | months after slashdot introduced accounts there were all
             | sorts of AnonymousCowards talking about how dumb the idea
             | was). Eventually I relented and got my 5 digit uid. Years
             | later I would cringe thinking about it, knowing I had an
             | opportunity for a 3 or 4 digit one (when it was still cool
             | and relevant to have such a thing). These days the fact
             | that my reddit account is almost old enough to drive, and
             | my HN account is 14.25 just makes me feel old :D.
             | 
             | The place I really miss is kuro5hin. That site was a gem.
        
               | elihu wrote:
               | Kuro5hin was amazing until the trolls took over. I really
               | liked the idea of people writing stories and have them
               | subject to editorial comments before they go live. That's
               | sort of what my mental model of what citizen journalism
               | should look like, and what modern scientific journals
               | should be like. I haven't seen anyone do anything quite
               | like it since, which is a shame.
               | 
               | Another site, less known than kuro5hin that was great for
               | awhile was called Jyte. You just post whatever random
               | statement you want, and people can vote "agree" or
               | "disagree". The community was amazing. It was kind of
               | like a game where you try to find some issue where
               | reasonable people are roughly equally split. It was also
               | something where you could just interject any topic you
               | like for any reason. Maybe that's what people get out of
               | twitter -- I don't use it myself.
        
             | raphlinus wrote:
             | You rang?
             | 
             | [3148]: https://slashdot.org/~raph
        
               | mindcrime wrote:
               | Daaaaaaaaayum! You could sell that user for a lot of
               | money!
        
         | paganel wrote:
         | Same here, even though in the early years I was still trying to
         | hang out more on programmning.reddit.com. But I don't think
         | that extended into 2008 and I'm too lazy to check now.
         | 
         | Also, checking now I can't believe I joined so soon after this
         | website was announced. Now I wish I had invested in BTC when it
         | was considered as expensive at $100.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | It'd be interesting to see how many of those first cohorts are
         | still active.
        
           | msb wrote:
           | Never been much for commenting, but absorbed a lot from the
           | knowledge you dropped back then.
        
       | phrozbug wrote:
       | Happy birthday!
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Happy Birthday HN.
       | 
       | Obligatory and much warranted shouts of thanks to Dang.
       | 
       | Trying to find my 'green' posts now for memory lane
        
       | hailpixel wrote:
       | Oh wow, I've been on here a long time.
        
       | lvl100 wrote:
       | I've been coming here from the beginning. Off and on. Different
       | handles because I rarely saved my passwords. I absolutely
       | appreciate all the gem comments especially from insiders. This is
       | the only place that reminds me of 90s newsgroups.
       | 
       | I want to especially thank Dang for keeping this place
       | consistent.
        
         | globile wrote:
         | Was also here on the 1st day, the same day I decided to start-
         | up 15 years ago!
         | 
         | Took me 7 years to create an account though. Wish I had done it
         | sooner!
         | 
         | Especially ALWAYS reading the comments BEFORE the actual
         | articles! Thanks!
        
           | misiti3780 wrote:
           | how did people hear about it back then?
        
             | karlzt wrote:
             | From PGs blog, O'Reilly's feed and/or Slashdot.
             | 
             | /.
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | I've only been on HN since around ~2009 or something like
             | that (11 years), but most people I've met in real-life who
             | are also on HN have been recommended to visit the site
             | first time from fellow hackers, rather than via other
             | websites.
        
             | jedberg wrote:
             | From reddit and/or PGs blog.
        
         | bound008 wrote:
         | We need Dang as a Guido style BDFL[1]. At least until the
         | community has grown to fully take on and continue the culture.
         | (Which I am assuming why Guido felt he could step down)
         | 
         | Hope they are taking great care of you at YC!
         | 
         | 1. For those unaware, Guido, the creator of Python, who
         | remained the Benevolent Dictator for life until 2018.
        
       | known wrote:
        
       | 12ian34 wrote:
       | Three things I enjoy the most about Hacker News:
       | 
       | - Simplicity
       | 
       | - Open-minded, ego-less debate
       | 
       | - A great community, moderated just right
        
       | melenaboija wrote:
       | I have no doubt that the first page of HN made me the
       | professional I am now and the comments helped me to forge strong
       | opinions. It has been a while since I started using the HN search
       | engine to know better about technical topics.
       | 
       | Not sure who to but thank you.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | tomrod wrote:
         | pg, dang, and all others who work behind the scenes, as well as
         | the scores of commenters and submitters who challenge by
         | seeking to understand.
         | 
         | I too am a beneficiary of this neo-polis of tech and
         | philosophy.
        
           | melenaboija wrote:
           | Yup, that could be interpreted wrong.
           | 
           | Sure I am grateful to dang and all the members. of the
           | community. I guess
           | 
           | I have a bit of conflict on the origin of the community, not
           | saying there is anything wrong in what it is but maybe no
           | connections with a private initiative would make me feel more
           | comfortable, but I guess that it is what it is and I should
           | say thank you to Y Combinator too.
        
             | tomrod wrote:
             | In this context, "behind the scenes" == keep the place
             | running, like moderators I did not name, IT support, etc.
        
       | zoover2020 wrote:
       | HBD HN! Thanks for the amazing 15 years so far, sounds corny but
       | I'm not sure if I'd be in the same place today without you.
       | 
       | Love this place, thanks to all for making it possible. Let's keep
       | it great for at least another 15 years.
        
       | d3nit wrote:
       | Happy Bday HN! Since I come here I think I spend too much time of
       | my workdays with reading :D
        
       | billylo wrote:
       | I really enjoy HN and slashdot.org type of community. Makers
       | talking about making things.
       | 
       | The longevity and quality of HN discussion is much appreciated.
        
       | sidcool wrote:
       | With all its quirks, HN has had a big impact on my life for more
       | than a decade.
        
       | bartwe wrote:
       | Was glad hn got started right around the time r/programming
       | collapsed
        
         | raxxorrax wrote:
         | Why did it collapse? I use reddit from time to time, but never
         | for programming related stuff.
         | 
         | Did read HN for quite a while, not 15 years though and started
         | spamming it just a few years ago.
        
       | cyanne wrote:
       | Happy 15th birthday then!
        
       | minusSeven wrote:
       | Maybe an unpopular opinion here but I am finding HN to be more
       | and more like Reddit everyday. I normally only read HN articles
       | that have atleast 500 points or more and have notifications setup
       | for it. In the past I used to get only 1 or 2 notifications a
       | week. Now I get atleast 4 a day. I find it hard nowadays to keep
       | up.
        
         | nicky0 wrote:
         | Perhaps you could increase the notification threshold.
        
         | Minor49er wrote:
         | The New section also has plenty of interesting submissions that
         | don't make it to the front page, though it would be easy to
         | lose hours reading them
        
         | inglor_cz wrote:
         | I only visit HN sine September 2020 and yet the growth of the
         | user base in just 17 months seems obvious to me.
         | 
         | Covid and WFH probably contributed to that growth as well.
        
         | sbayeta wrote:
         | Maybe there are more users now?
        
       | RubberMullet wrote:
       | Slashdot -> F'd Company forum -> MetaFilter -> HN
       | 
       | Big thanks to dang and everyone involved.
        
         | mathgenius wrote:
         | Slashdot -> Technocrat [1] -> HN.
         | 
         | I think Bruce Perens shutdown technocrat.net because it's just
         | a p.i.t.a. running a forum like this [2].
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20080110105629/http://technocrat...
         | 
         | [2]
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20090104214806/http://technocrat...
        
       | epa wrote:
       | We have had our ups and downs over the years but this is still is
       | my favorite website.
        
       | bkfh wrote:
       | 2007 is... 15 years ago OMG
        
       | stillblue wrote:
       | Checking HN is the very first thing I do after waking up. It has
       | been that way for years now. Amazing community!!!!
        
       | lngnmn2 wrote:
       | We must acknowledge that it went from the free speech place for
       | nerds and autists with zero censure to a safe space for mediocre
       | imposters where everything slightly unconventional is being
       | flagged.
       | 
       | Congratulations.
        
         | smugkot wrote:
         | What website would you say is better?
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Yes, even in a thread like this there are people that don't
         | know how to behave. FWIW I did not expect to flag a comment in
         | this thread, but you managed to cross my threshold.
         | 
         | And if it is so aggravating to you, why do you keep coming
         | back?
        
       | seumars wrote:
       | Ha! lots of interesting headlines:
       | 
       | >YouTube: "identifying copyrighted material can't be an automated
       | process." Startup disagrees.
        
         | adpcm wrote:
         | Wish they would have said that DMCA claims can't be an
         | automated process. Not that that is really on YouTube alone
         | though.
        
       | unixhero wrote:
       | The most important website om the Internet.
        
       | jll29 wrote:
       | Thanks, HN, for continuing being one of the few islands of ideas
       | and expertise in an over-commercialized WWW.
        
       | drumhead wrote:
       | HN is what reddit used to be like when it first started. Links to
       | interesting Tech, programming and science stories and high
       | quality discussion compared to something like Digg.
       | 
       | Thankfully HN hasnt dropped in quality on that front unlike
       | reddit. Its still so good I dont even click on the link I click
       | on comments to get a HN summary which gives me a pretty good idea
       | if its worth reading or not. Most of the time the comments are
       | even better and more informative.
        
         | cakeman wrote:
         | I have to agree with berkut. I had to stop using a previous hn
         | account because it was so incredibly frustrating when people
         | would downvote me with no explanation. I would cite my comments
         | with reputable sources but that never helped.
         | 
         | It was enough to prevent me from contributing to the discussion
         | until recently.
         | 
         | Certain beliefs or opinions in the minority are not very well
         | tolderated here. It's still certainly better than other sites,
         | but from my perspective it is slowly sliding downwards.
         | 
         | If I do post, it likely would not be anything remotely
         | controversial.
        
           | 1_player wrote:
           | I don't blame HN, I blame the invention of the downvote
           | button.
           | 
           | I find it easier to hold a slightly controversial opinion
           | here than it has ever been possible on Reddit, especially the
           | programming and tech subreddits which are very low quality in
           | general.
           | 
           | The downvote button is awful, but why is it surprising that
           | controversial opinions are downvoted? Being downvoted is the
           | proof the opinion is controversial. It would be better if
           | people weren't cancelled because they go against the grain,
           | sure, but we don't live in a perfect utopia of perfectly
           | rational beings.
        
             | derefr wrote:
             | Ah, but if you think about it, the upvote button has the
             | same dysfunction as the downvote button, just at the other
             | extreme. The downvote button punishes controversy; but the
             | upvote button _rewards orthodoxy_. So even without a
             | downvote option, orthodox comments rise to the top.
             | 
             | The upvote button _also_ acts a bit like a Rotten Tomatoes
             | score, in that it compresses the full range of  "scores"
             | people might give something down into just "did you like it
             | or not." So something that a thousand people can like _just
             | enough_ to vote for, will end up upvoted much more highly
             | than something that 100 people absolutely love. The things
             | you see rising to the top are thus whatever is  "blandly
             | agreeable" to the most people, rather than what is
             | "seriously amazing" to a non-negligible subset of people.
             | 
             | ---
             | 
             | IMHO a "proper" solution for both of these problems would
             | be entirely different than what we've got now.
             | 
             | * The primary factor for ranking posts/comments would be an
             | "engagement score", coming from how long in aggregate users
             | spend actually looking at/reading the comment or linked
             | page (which is in fact practical to observe _if_ this
             | social-bookmarking service is interacted with primarily
             | through a browser extension  / app, as would be the modern
             | trend.)
             | 
             | * Posts (and comment threads) would additionally gain some
             | (diminished) bonuses from the aggregate scores of their
             | child-comment subtrees. So boring posts/root-comments with
             | engaging comments subthreads would still rise to the top,
             | to ensure that those subthreads are surfaced to appreciate.
             | (Probably there'd have to be UX for this case, highlighting
             | the aspect of the post+comments that's so engaging.)
             | 
             | * Something upvote-like would still exist (though it'd be
             | optional for the system's functioning, because of the
             | engagement score); but adding one would require a proof-of-
             | work (e.g. solving a CAPTCHA.) This signal could thus be
             | factored quite _strongly_ when available (presuming the
             | service has sufficient anti-botting measures in place.)
             | 
             | * You can actually upvote things _multiple times_ -- but
             | the proof-of-work required would be exponentially-
             | increasing. One CAPTCHA for one point; another two for a
             | second point; another four for a third point. This solves
             | the  "Rotten Tomatoes" problem.
             | 
             | * No downvotes; instead, comments can mark themselves as
             | being a "rebuttal" to the post/comment they're responding
             | to. (Maybe entirely-separate "comment" and "rebut" UX
             | flows.) The aggregate engagement+upvote scores of all
             | "rebuttals" to a thing, would then be inherited as a
             | "malus", i.e. a bonus with the sign flipped; high-scoring
             | rebuttals lower the rank of the thing they rebut, which
             | means that that thing then has less of a score to
             | contribute as a bonus to its own ancestors.
             | 
             | * This down-ranking would be applied recursively from the
             | leaf nodes up; the malus of a rebuttal on its ancestors
             | would be "weakened" if the rebuttal was hit with a malus
             | from high-powered rebuttals of its own.
        
             | kshacker wrote:
             | Talking of Reddit downvoted, I am not sure it is that bad.
             | I have been downvoted to hell and I have downvoted. But my
             | observation is that downvoted comments get hidden quickly
             | so only the truly extreme comments are downvoted big or
             | only the true believers go and find comments to downvote.
             | Net net it happens but it is easier to get a 100 votes than
             | to lose them and I think it may be easier to get 1000 votes
             | than to lose 1000.
        
               | 1_player wrote:
               | Fair enough, the problem with Reddit downvotes is dwarfed
               | by the fact that Reddit's "etiquette" is to promote witty
               | and sharp one liners, compared to deep and thoughtful
               | comments, and it is the opposite of HN, where you can
               | have the witty but shallow takedowns but the amount of
               | thoughtful comments is above any other discussion forum
               | this size.
        
               | romaniv wrote:
               | It's not just Reddit's "etiquette", it's the general
               | direction where most social media comment sections are
               | pushing their users via design and algorithms.
               | 
               | 1. Click on the next thing in the feed.
               | 
               | 2. Upvote/downvote.
               | 
               | 3. Leave one-liner comment.
               | 
               | 4. Got to #1.
        
         | slingnow wrote:
         | > HN is what reddit used to be like when it first started.
         | 
         | That's exactly the problem -- HN is now reddit-lite.
        
         | laumars wrote:
         | The quality on HN has dropped massively in the last 5 years.
         | It's still better than Reddit but it's definitely not where it
         | once was.
         | 
         | I also think the peer moderation on here is broken. Again, it's
         | better than Reddit but I still think HN can improve things. I
         | have a few ideas on how that could work but I don't think
         | there's any incentive to change the status quo (and I
         | sympathise with why too).
        
         | UI_at_80x24 wrote:
         | I've always thought HN was more like the spiritual successor to
         | Slashdot then (most of) Reddit.
         | 
         | On /. it was COMMON to be participating in a discussion about
         | (for example) a camera problem on one of NASAs' probes, and
         | very soon you would discover that the actual people from NASA
         | that were working on it were in the forum talking about what
         | they were actually doing and getting to the core issues rather
         | then the press-release fluff.
         | 
         | If there was a science/tech story you could almost guarantee
         | that the authors of the paper themselves would show up, and all
         | of a sudden you would get 10PHD's from different fields all
         | "working together".
         | 
         | There was another thread that I remember a bit better because I
         | was involved in it. Somebody had an old/obscure bit of computer
         | hardware that was last used in a 386. (A tape-drive backup that
         | used the floppy-controller to read/write data to the drive.)
         | The person was desperate to get a copy of his thesis off of the
         | drive, but there was a hardware failure on both the drive and
         | the old PC.
         | 
         | Well in the thread one of the old engineers that had designed
         | the drive at his old company chimed and said he had the part
         | that was broken and would ship it out to him. Then another
         | person offered to send a USB to Floppy controller so that his
         | "new PC" (sans floppy interface) would be able to work. THEN
         | the tech director of a major backup company (software) offered
         | his labs to have the the whole PC & tape drive shipped to their
         | headquarters where the lab would get the files off the drive
         | for free because "I want my team to have the chance to train on
         | this, and learn how to restore it all."
         | 
         | In the end it was a happy story for the end-user. But I see a
         | similar gathering of the minds on HN as I once did on Slashdot.
         | 
         | My /. ID was 5 digits.... The internet was different back then,
         | but it's nice to see that people can still be the same.
        
         | tgv wrote:
         | Not having "sub-combinators" might have contributed to that,
         | and the relentless moderation by dang, who has mildly
         | reprimanded me too. I think it works very well indeed!
         | 
         | Happy 15th!
        
           | zzleeper wrote:
           | I always thought it was the opposite. That subreddits allowed
           | the community to expand without catering to the lowest common
           | denominator, and reddit would have fallen off the cliff
           | faster without those.
        
             | throwaway894345 wrote:
             | In my view Reddit and Twitter occupy the same rung with
             | respect to discourse. There's a lot of variation between
             | the subreddits and between the various pockets of Twitter,
             | but on average the lowest common denominator is not an
             | inaccurate characterization of those communities.
        
               | jgwil2 wrote:
               | I think that Reddit is a degree better than Twitter: it's
               | still possible to find long, substantive discussions on
               | Reddit, but the artificial length constraint on Twitter
               | really pushes all users toward pithy "burns" and other
               | toxic forms of discourse.
        
               | throwaway894345 wrote:
               | As a counterpoint, Twitter "threads" are a thing and you
               | can find a lot of good discourse on them. I don't know
               | how I feel about the length constraint--part of me thinks
               | that the people who for whom the constraint is a toxicity
               | trap are going to be the same people who don't avail
               | themselves of Reddit's lack of length constraint and thus
               | come across as baity and otherwise toxic no matter the
               | platform.
               | 
               | Similarly, I think that Reddit optimizes for groupthink
               | even more than Twitter does. Good luck having an
               | insightful conversation in /r/pol or /r/conservative or
               | even some technology subreddit.
               | 
               | And mind, I think Twitter Inc is absolutely awful and
               | Twitter is a societal ill. I just don't perceive a
               | significant degree of difference between it and Reddit
               | _with respect to discourse_.
        
             | eldaisfish wrote:
             | I tend to agree with this. Subreddits are fantastic for
             | hobbies and specialised interests. Unfortunately, reddit is
             | increasingly becoming a hub for astroturfing at the same
             | time as search results become more unreliable.
        
             | TigeriusKirk wrote:
             | There are still subreddits with much better discussion than
             | happens here. Narrow focus and consistent moderation are
             | the keys.
        
         | sillysaurusx wrote:
         | I guess I'll chime in and say that I, too, have noticed more
         | downvotes when I wouldn't normally predict them.
         | 
         | Unlike the other commenters, I'm not worried about it. It's
         | just a sign of growth and HN going mainstream. The mods keep
         | everyone on a tight leash, so I think the content will remain
         | good.
         | 
         | It is a bit frustrating to post something that feels high
         | quality but people disagree. But that's the price you pay for
         | not being perfect to everyone all the time. (You see? It's
         | impossible.) So don't let it bug you.
        
         | berkut wrote:
         | Unfortunately, I'm going to have to disagree...
         | 
         | Things aren't _that_ bad, but I 've definitely noticed a lot
         | more cases of downvoting of "against the grain" comments or
         | opinions with often very few responses in the last couple of
         | years.
         | 
         | Previously, I rarely noticed heavily downvoted comments, and in
         | the cases they were, there were almost always reply comments
         | explaining the opposite side, leading to IMO much better
         | discourse and discussion.
        
           | larrik wrote:
           | Maybe, but 5-10 years ago Apple-bashing was a karma death
           | sentence (never guess how I learned that). Now it seems to be
           | more of an active discussion (mostly due to the MBP keyboard
           | situation I guess?).
        
             | modeless wrote:
             | Big Tech bashing is in fashion, is that really a surprise?
             | It's totally mainstream now. That doesn't mean HN is more
             | accepting of alternative viewpoints in general. Maybe even
             | the opposite.
        
             | fouc wrote:
             | When I see a lot of downvotes I usually ask myself "what do
             | they know that I don't?" I would assume some portion of
             | downvotes are due to a knowledge disparity. And if there's
             | a lot of downvotes against my comment, then there's a
             | chance I'm missing some key knowledge.
        
             | rubatuga wrote:
             | Damn that used to be such a big deal a few years ago. You
             | don't see it anymore.
        
           | Covzire wrote:
           | I've only been browsing here for about 10 of the 15 years,
           | but I remember a time when the discussions closely matched
           | what I and the public at large could discuss in private
           | without fear.
           | 
           | But there has been a chilling effect in recent years where
           | more and more topics become verboten and someone will get
           | downvoted, at a minimum, for even bringing them up.
           | Interesting topics and child threads go missing on the
           | regular. We're even at a point now where certain corporate
           | press releases cannot even be questioned at all, despite the
           | same corporations being stuck with heavy fines for similar
           | past behavior they're being accused of now.
           | 
           | I still like HN for the purely technical aspects, but I don't
           | know anyone who still views it as a place where complex ideas
           | that affect society can be discussed anymore.
        
             | ineptech wrote:
             | "Verboten" is a strong word; to my mind that refers to
             | things that can't be discussed because they would challenge
             | the power structure, like how you can't talk about Tank Guy
             | in Chinese social media.
             | 
             | That's not HN. When you get downvoted for hot-button
             | political stuff, that's like getting shushed for talking
             | about football in church. It's not censored, but this isn't
             | the place for it.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | > certain corporate press releases cannot even be
             | questioned at all
             | 
             | That doesn't sound right. What is an example?
        
             | unethical_ban wrote:
             | I've been thinking of building an HN clone for politics and
             | society. The requirement to post would be an account of the
             | same name on HN, validated through something like a code on
             | your profile, and only for users above a certain karma
             | threshold.
             | 
             | It basically outsourced the work of making sure users are
             | of decent tech savviness and good faith.
        
           | Terry_Roll wrote:
           | There is online manipulation here and pretty much everywhere
           | else where people can discuss things.
           | 
           | It can come in a variety of forms. https://mpra.ub.uni-
           | muenchen.de/109634/1/MPRA_paper_109634.p...
           | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-
           | op...
           | 
           | Reputation Management
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reputation_management which
           | obviously protects income streams for entities, but the
           | military also protect businesses online because they are
           | protecting money coming in from abroad, this is what politics
           | is all about, placating the public which business gets its
           | way, stuff you probably dont need to know about and so wont
           | be taught about it.
        
             | dang wrote:
             | Such things of course exist but the problem is that
             | internet users are inclined to see astroturfing, shilling,
             | brigading, state actors, and so on in every comment they
             | dislike. Then they react aggressively as if they are
             | uncovering crimes, which pushes discussion quality
             | downhill. That's why we ask people not to post that way
             | unless they have actual evidence (in which case they should
             | be sending it to hn@ycombinator.com so we can investigate).
             | Someone else having a disagreeable view does not count as
             | evidence.
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
             | 
             | https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comm
             | e...
        
               | Melatonic wrote:
               | Agreed
        
             | bluedays wrote:
             | I have noticed the same, but when I have mentioned this in
             | the past I have been downvoted and told that I am being
             | "conspiratorial". This is definitely a problem on Hacker
             | News, because it is a website beholden to a company
             | (YCombinator). This company has a vested interest in
             | ensuring that the messages on Hacker News reflect what the
             | popular narrative is as it reflects upon them personally.
             | In other words as long as large companies control the
             | medium the messages will be controlled by said company.
             | There is only the illusion of free speech on the Internet.
             | You can say whatever you want, but don't be surprised if
             | nobody can hear you.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | sbayeta wrote:
         | I suspect this is what most of us do
        
           | slap_shot wrote:
           | > Thankfully HN hasnt dropped in quality on that front unlike
           | reddit.
           | 
           | I've heard these sorts of shots taken at Reddit since I
           | started using it in 2011 (I was late to the game) and I'm
           | fascinated by it. I use Reddit every day and am in constant
           | awe of how it is populated with such a wide breadth of people
           | with such a strong passion and expertise about virtually any
           | subject I enjoy.
           | 
           | Many times a week i type "reddit <some topic I'm curious
           | about>" and the top threads/comments are almost always
           | someone with better knowledge on that subject than anything
           | else I can find on the internet.
           | 
           | It's just funny how everyone's perception is different, but I
           | think Reddit is a modern marvel.
        
             | alickz wrote:
             | I like Reddit but I think you have to be very careful about
             | trusting any information on it, it's a populist's wet
             | dream.
             | 
             | There have been multiple times on Reddit I saw a comment
             | about something I personally had deep knowledge of, and was
             | astounded at how inaccurate the comment was relative to the
             | thousands of upvotes and dozens of awards it had.
             | 
             | This has made me wary of comments relating to subjects I
             | have zero expertise in, as I can't properly evaluate if
             | they're correct and I can't trust the responses or upvotes
             | because those might come from people with as little
             | expertise in the subject as me.
             | 
             | Since upvotes don't correlate with truthfulness, they only
             | correlate with popularity, they're useless as a measurement
             | of how accurate a comment is. This is usually exacerbated
             | by how popular a given subreddit is, with smaller niche
             | subreddits being better (in my experience).
             | 
             | That said I do indeed go to Reddit first for most of my
             | purchasing or entertainment decisions, just have to be
             | careful to take any info there with a massive heaping of
             | salt.
        
             | aaronsimpson wrote:
             | This may just be my confirmation bias, but I started using
             | Reddit in 2012 and that felt like the big heyday and the
             | peak of the site. It had reached critical mass to be
             | interesting, but the new UI design hadn't come yet and it
             | still felt niche enough to have the weird, interesting
             | corners.
        
               | forbiddenvoid wrote:
               | I think the sad reality may be that the majority of folks
               | out there don't want niche, weird and interesting.
        
       | ellis0n wrote:
       | Happy birthday HN! 10 years ago, I accidentally found HN and left
       | the local pirate community, which translated many posts (for Non-
       | English speakers) from HN and never gave links to original
       | content.
        
       | zriha wrote:
       | As a newcomer here, well I am wishing everybody a happy birthday!
       | :)
        
         | aiisjustanif wrote:
         | God I feel old. Started reading HN in 2012.
        
       | zwieback wrote:
       | Happy Birthday, I love HN but I still miss Usenet...
        
       | edmcnulty101 wrote:
       | I just have to say,if you ever start to get down on hacker news
       | just go to Twitter and try to start a reasonable discussion.
       | 
       | It will inspire great gratitude for HN.
        
       | sebow wrote:
       | Barely even 5 here but here's to 15 more good years.Happy
       | anniversary
        
       | raverbashing wrote:
       | If you go one day forward, there's this:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=189
       | 
       | But the actual YC link is 404
        
         | Jaruzel wrote:
         | Archived copy of the 404:
         | 
         | https://web.archive.org/web/20140625052305/http://ycombinato...
        
       | mikezhdev wrote:
       | Happy birthday, HN!!
        
       | erwincoumans wrote:
       | Congrats, a great place to discuss interesting topics.
       | 
       | Wonder how HN moderators deal with spam? I have a phpBB3 (was
       | phpBB2) forum for 17 years, still running, and had to be
       | inventive with spam: for the last 5 years you have to solve a dot
       | product and answer a logic question during registration. It may
       | exclude some genuine visitors unfortunately. Also migrated the
       | server to different VPS companies, it takes energy to keep a
       | forum running, a popular site such as HN in particular.
       | 
       | So thank you HN admins!
        
         | smrtinsert wrote:
         | One of the first to use bayesian spam filtering techniques if I
         | remember correctly. Probably only gotten better since then.
         | 
         | Still using spacer gifs though hah.
        
       | nhoughto wrote:
       | Wasn't there a thread recently (can't find it) about the limit of
       | paging back to the earliest posts and that it actually started in
       | October or similar? And feb is just the earliest the UI will let
       | you click to, so anniversary is actually past already? Not to be
       | a party pooper =|
        
         | headalgorithm wrote:
         | The first day of HN frontpage:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30200626
        
           | jointpdf wrote:
           | Top comment from the post announcing HN
           | (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=124):
           | 
           | > _Well its not a totally useless link submission..._
           | 
           | Even our earliest comment ancestors had the signature HN
           | venom.
        
             | tomrod wrote:
             | Venom? Characteristic wit of people who have no time for
             | silliness :)
        
         | pfarrell wrote:
         | 2006-10-09. Using the "past" link doesn't include dates around
         | this time.
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28816110
         | 
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/front?day=2006-10-09
        
         | Sebb767 wrote:
         | I guess it's like Christmas; it's the tradition that matters,
         | not the exact date.
        
       | chris123 wrote:
       | The good old days, most fantastic. Now it's to degenerated into
       | some combination of echo chamber and safe place, with no lively
       | debate, certainly not about anything controversial. Very sad.
        
         | Kye wrote:
         | You're baiting flags and downvotes here, intentional or not. It
         | will seem to confirm your faulty view of HN. Isn't that handy?
        
           | hunterb123 wrote:
           | I agree with him partly, and at least two other users voiced
           | the same concern, one albeit in an abrasive manner. It's
           | still the best place to have a debate though.
           | 
           | There are some topics that are very predictable, some of them
           | are noticeably left issues, some things more loosely
           | connected. Crypto, Tesla, Brave, Facebook, Israel, etc. are
           | all subjects you'll most likely get heavily downvoted and
           | probably flagged if you don't view the common (to here)
           | opinion.
           | 
           | HN is not immune to group think and talking points get
           | parroted here often, dissenting views flagged and downvoted.
           | But not always, it's definitely nowhere near Reddit bad.
           | 
           | Like I said at the top, it's the best place on the internet
           | to have a discussion, but not perfect, and seemingly getting
           | a worse slowly, the way it always seems to go.
        
             | Kye wrote:
             | I've been around since near the start in one way or
             | another. The only big change I've seen is the near complete
             | disappearance of casual bigotry. People still voice a wide
             | range of views, but now it helps to not be an ass about it.
             | It used to be someone could just go on a screed about the
             | right topics and get lots of upvotes. Now they have to
             | launder it a bit.
             | 
             | The flipside is I can actually share my somewhat left of
             | center views without being flagged and downvoted into
             | oblivion as long as I practice a little decorum. If
             | anything, the quality is _up_ because people have to put a
             | little effort in now.
        
               | hunterb123 wrote:
               | I haven't seen bigotry at any scale really, but my
               | definition isn't as loose as it is for some people.
               | 
               | Decorum is always welcome, but that's not really what I'm
               | talking about, my main observation has been the group
               | think, parroting of talking points, downvoting without
               | disputing, and most importantly flagging to disagree
               | with/hide dissent.
               | 
               | Some topics draw it more than others, I mentioned the
               | obvious ones, it seeps into others though.
               | 
               | It doesn't matter how cordial you are, sometimes you will
               | be flagged for your contrarian views.
               | 
               | Honestly user flagging and possibly even downvoting
               | should be removed, it's abused too much.
               | 
               | A simple block button that would hide all posts from the
               | user for that client would suffice, mods could look at
               | block rates of a post/user and review if it is spam or
               | breaks the rules.
               | 
               | I'm sorry but I don't need another person's opinion of a
               | post to grey out or hide a comment. I can make the
               | judgement for myself whether I disagree with it or not.
        
       | soheil wrote:
       | If instead of coming here for 15years and leaving a comment every
       | other day you invested the dollar amount equivalent to the time
       | you took to write that comment instead you would have $100k.
       | 10 mins(time to read/write comment) x $120/hr         = $20 x 30
       | days/mo x 0.5 (every other day)         = $300/mo x 15 years x 8%
       | (compounded annually)         = $100k
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | Amount of time spent on the site is too low I'd estimate, but
         | then the income too high. The real problem is probably that, if
         | you'd actually do this and try to value all your time like
         | this... you'd burn out by the time you got to $1800 or
         | something!
        
       | samgranieri wrote:
       | Happy Birthday HN! This is one of my favorite online communities.
       | I enjoy popping in here a few times a day
        
       | a4isms wrote:
       | Dug into the "archives..." My first post on HN was 15 years ago:
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1901
       | 
       | Happy birthday, HN! And thank-you dang, for all you do.
        
       | kaeruct wrote:
       | A lot of people hate on Hacker News but personally it's been very
       | helpful for my life. Thanks for everything <3
        
       | tkanarsky wrote:
       | It's remarkable how unchanged the community feel has been on HN
       | -- those headlines would not be out of place on today's front
       | page if you change the company names and tech stacks a bit :)
       | Doesn't seem like there's been an eternal September moment in the
       | past decade and a half (like Reddit's push for mobile adoption,
       | for example). Really a testament to the mods' consistency, thanks
       | @dang!
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | sharken wrote:
         | Dang is a key factor in the success of HN, no doubt about it.
         | 
         | Another part is the consistent website design, it helps in
         | focusing on the essentials, i.e. the articles and the
         | discussions.
         | 
         | And last but not least i try to be the best I can when posting
         | here.
        
           | dncornholio wrote:
           | The consistent design is what's holding HN back. The worst is
           | when the top comment has so many replies, the first page is
           | only reactions on that comment. Someone actually needs to
           | sticky a comment saying there's a next page button with links
           | to it. Oh and the links are unclickable on mobile.
        
             | robryan wrote:
             | Sure there are some tweeks that could be made. I'll take
             | what we have currently though over having a designer decide
             | what we really need is something like new Reddit.
        
       | streamofdigits wrote:
       | It feels like HN still upholds the early promise of the internet
       | (along with Wikipedia and very small number of other websites).
       | But what will the next 15 year bring about?
        
         | UweSchmidt wrote:
         | What's the "early promise of the internet" to you?
         | 
         | The Venture Capitalists and startuppers that made HN like the
         | internet to be Free enough that new businesses and services can
         | thrive, and Open Source for the accessible and reusable
         | building blocks for their projects, but clearly like
         | commercialization and being the middleman, like in the good old
         | offline days. The headache of moderating their platforms feels
         | more urgent than thinking about Freedom of Speech.
         | 
         | The early internet, to me, was the promise to remove those
         | middlemen and have us directly connect, and, while using mostly
         | free and low-overhead websites or services, contribute back. I
         | expected real estate classifieds posted in an open format to
         | open databases by now, and the job description of "real estate
         | agent" retired.
         | 
         | When I think if "upholding" anything I might think of Slashdot
         | clearly preaching Open Source and the Evils of Microsoft. Naive
         | by today's standards but hey, it kept the old ethos alive for a
         | little longer.
         | 
         | Edit: No doubt many other excellent values were upheld by HN
         | and the moderators, so thanks for that!
        
           | mindcrime wrote:
           | _What 's the "early promise of the internet" to you?_
           | 
           | That should probably be a whole separate post of its own! In
           | fact, I'd encourage you, if you're interested, to consider
           | writing up something on the topic and submit it as a new
           | post. I think there's a lot to dig into with regards to what
           | we all thought the "early promise of the Internet" was, and
           | analyze it in terms of where we were wrong, where we've
           | fallen short of the ideas, and - maybe most importantly -
           | where there's room to take specific action(s) to get "back on
           | the rails" so to speak.
        
             | Melatonic wrote:
             | I agree - this could make an excellent discussion on its
             | own. I bet we would see a large variety of opinions - the
             | internet enabled all kinds of new methods of communication
             | which in turn inspired different dreams in different
             | people.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | sharkweek wrote:
         | Don't forget Zombo.com, a bastion.
         | 
         | In a billion years, when an alien species reaches earth and
         | sees the ruins of human civilization, somehow one of the last
         | remaining transmissions is that voice, calmly reminding
         | everyone that anything is possible... at Zombocom
        
         | gambler wrote:
         | I disagree. HN is definitely less insane than Reddit these
         | days, but it's not representative of what Web 1.0 was like and
         | felt like.
         | 
         | Everyone here would do well to read and understand this essay
         | by Jaron Lanier:
         | 
         | https://www.edge.org/conversation/jaron_lanier-digital-maois...
         | 
         | I also recommend people revisit archives of some high-quality
         | web forums and websites like Geocities. There is a lot of
         | revisionism going on in tech sector right now. Conveniently,
         | it's nearly impossible to challenge in a space where a handful
         | of people can disappear your posts by downvoting and a
         | conversation stays "relevant" only for a few hours.
        
           | Melatonic wrote:
           | There was also a lot less diversity (in some ways) however
           | with Web 1. You were fairly likely to be talking to someone
           | quite nerdy or at least with similar hobbies. The barrier to
           | entry is also of course much lower now generally. I agree the
           | upvote / downvote system can SOMETIMES disappear a valid
           | opinion but I cannot currently think of a better way to self
           | moderate discussions like we have here.
           | 
           | The same thing does happen to an extent during in person
           | conversations but the barrier for both making a challenging
           | statement and "downvoting" a challenging statement or action
           | is higher.
           | 
           | HN may not be able to actually BE what Web 1.0 was but it
           | seems to make an honest attempt at it in the modern world.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | Possibly people wishing the internet was back like it was in
         | 2022, :D
        
           | ignoramous wrote:
           | See also,
           | 
           | 1. _Eternal September_ :
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
           | 
           | 2. (and what I like to call) _Eternal October_ :
           | https://googlepress.blogspot.com/2000/10/google-launches-
           | sel...
        
             | dmonitor wrote:
             | 2016 was the third impact
        
       | mccada wrote:
       | Happy birthday Hacker News! It's usually the first site I pull up
       | everyday, and even though I mostly just lurk I've learnt a lot of
       | interesting info from the site. I appreciate the linked articles
       | and insightful discussions on here.
        
       | onion2k wrote:
       | Happy birthday!
        
       | hahamrfunnyguy wrote:
       | Wow, it's been that long? When I created my account about 8 years
       | ago, it seemed like HN had been around for ages already!
       | 
       | Thank you to Dang and the HN team for keeping this site quality.
        
       | ayi wrote:
       | Bear in mind that English not my main language so I can't
       | possibly transfer what I think clearly. This is also the reason
       | of why I don't comment regularly (like never).
       | 
       | HN is still my go to source of news about almost anything.
       | Ukraine crisis, health tech, startups, computer history, new
       | technologies... anything. Right now, I literally have hundreds
       | (yes) tabs open to just read the comments.
       | 
       | But HN also made me learn something. It was first 3-4 years ago
       | and I still see the same signals every month or at least at 2-3
       | months. It is: "even if you have %98 correlation between things
       | you and other people like there can be some fundamental
       | differences between you and them and if you dig these things you
       | will just drift apart"
       | 
       | We have a lot in common. A lot of us believes on tried and tested
       | technologies instead of latest SmthJS. We still advocate Firefox
       | instead of Chrome to serve libre software. We think that the
       | power and money is highly concentrated on a handful of people and
       | the distribution is not fair (but not the "5 families are
       | managing the world" shit). We want free flowing data. We want the
       | soul of web 1.0 back. Etc..
       | 
       | But what's detail and what's fundamental is different per person
       | and I think the things we agree on is the details. We are
       | different in fundamentals. We have very different world views and
       | we fundamentally want different things from life.
       | 
       | Ok, 2 paragraphs ago I said that I noticed these things 3-4 years
       | ago and here is the samples I remember:
       | 
       | * It was first started with GDPR. I possibly can't find the
       | comment but I literally read a comment saying: "These are the
       | reasons why Europe can't have successful startups. For a 3-4
       | people startup there is no way to delete PII from db. There is
       | too much foreign keys in db to do that. Also we have sharding,
       | replication etc. This increases the costs for smaller startups".
       | 
       | MVP and "over engineering" are not binary terms. There must be a
       | middle ground. But we can't agree on that because the middle
       | ground changes based on our opinions. And in my opinion Privacy
       | is not something you can gloss over for mvp or because you are a
       | startup. For example can you save clear-text passwords just
       | because you are startup? What about SSL? Even letsencrypt
       | requires some work. Do you thing this is a "burden on startups"?
       | What about people in Germany who wants their home to be blurred
       | on maps software? If you can't satisfy their demands then maybe
       | you are not in their market to sell your software. Just please
       | stop pretending you are immune to the problems because you are
       | not "big enough". What's the difference between the news from
       | 2010s that Facebook employee reading old girlfriends private
       | messages and your developer can do a select * from users where
       | gender="female"?
       | 
       | * Contemning people who prefer a more work-life balanced work and
       | a hand of government on "free market" is another thing bothers
       | me. By the way I'm from Turkey and I don't have a horse in EU-US
       | game but "oh, you make 60k in 1 year? what a loser", "EU don't
       | have startups because they go home at 5pm", "They don't have
       | startups because they don't do hackathons" or "They don't have
       | startups because they have unions" is a just a very myopic way of
       | looking at life.
       | 
       | The United States is the only country among the 38 member OECD
       | nations that has not passed laws requiring businesses and
       | corporations to offer paid maternity leave to their employees.
       | Netherlands will send a nurse for 1 whole week to the home of the
       | mother and they will even do the groceries so the mother can get
       | at least a little sleep. I will just rest my case here. Oh sorry,
       | I also think that no one in Germany gets bankrupt just because
       | they call an ambulance.
       | 
       | * Why can't we have businesses? Just normal businesses without
       | obsession over growth, being a unicorn, getting bought by FAANG
       | or IPO? Why don't we have more pinboard, screenjar, nomadlist,
       | simpleanalytics or lunchmoney? I learned all of this sites from
       | HN and I'm pretty sure they are operating like normal businesses.
       | 
       | I can understand that after you become successful, someone or
       | some company can approach you to buy you. But starting with that
       | idea from day 1? I can't understand that. Linode got acquired,
       | redis also, lastpass too. Why do I have to constantly follow the
       | blog/news pages of the companies I work with so that my
       | information does not fall into the hands of companies I do not
       | want? Why can't you silicon valley guys can't just have an idea,
       | execute that idea with a couple of developers, employ some
       | accountant, hr manager etc and call it a day? Raise the prices
       | yearly a little bir more than inflation and live a life? Maybe
       | answer some customer mails yourself so thay can also feel a
       | connection. Maybe just meet some of your customers? I can't
       | understand the obsession with growth. That's the reason why our
       | planet is in this situation. You can double your growth
       | infinitely and keep a healthy relationship with anything.
       | 
       | But, I love you guys. I can say that in the last 10 years
       | possibly %40 of the things I learned was from HN. I wish you a
       | happy weekend.
        
       | lgvld wrote:
       | Happy B-day! Thank you to everyone involved in HN (including
       | people submitting and commenting). One of my favorite place of
       | the Internet! ;-)
        
       | rishabhd wrote:
       | The site which changed my life. Happy Birthday HN.
        
       | TacticalCoder wrote:
       | Big thanks to pg, dang, all the others involved and all the HN
       | community.
       | 
       | Happy birthday!
       | 
       | P.S: I think it's one of those threads that can have the old /.
       | or reddit feeling, posting messages without much substance but
       | that do still feel good and even with an oldschool smiley ; )
        
       | wildlogic wrote:
       | Wow, been lurking for 12! Feels like a few lifetimes... Getting
       | old... Thanks for everything.
        
       | ahelwer wrote:
       | People (and myself) can rag on this website a lot but it really
       | has changed the trajectory of my professional life. It's where I:
       | 
       | * first learned about CRDTs, kickstarting an interest in
       | distributed systems
       | 
       | * first learned about TLA+, kickstarting an interest in formal
       | specification
       | 
       | * first saw the book _Quantum Computing Since Democritus_
       | recommended (in a post about Professor Sussman's reading list),
       | kickstarting an interest in quantum computing
       | 
       | * first learned about the LEAN theorem prover, kickstarting an
       | interest in machine-checked proofs of correctness for
       | mathematical theorems
       | 
       | * first learned about tree-sitter, leading me to write a tree-
       | sitter grammar for TLA+
       | 
       | All of these (well, except quantum computing really - that
       | remains a pleasant side-hobby although I did work in Microsoft's
       | quantum program for a bit) are now things I use in the contracts
       | I work on as an independent software engineering consultant, and
       | the open source work I do in between. TLA+ especially has had an
       | enormous impact. Five good posts over the course of ten years is
       | still a pretty good signal/noise ratio!
        
         | iib wrote:
         | Is your tree-sitter grammar for TLA+ public somewhere?
        
           | ahelwer wrote:
           | https://github.com/tlaplus-community/tree-sitter-tlaplus
        
         | wofo wrote:
         | Hey thanks for this comment! It reminded me that I wanted to
         | play with TLA+ some years ago. Now, for the first time, I got a
         | couple of models checked :)
        
       | rbolla wrote:
       | HBD HN!
        
       | d4rkp4ttern wrote:
       | Even for topics that have subreddits, I feel HN discussions are
       | often better -- r/MachineLearning for example.
        
       | dgellow wrote:
       | Happy birthday orange website. Lot of love to all and big thanks
       | to dang for maintaining the community the way you've done all
       | these years.
        
       | sgt wrote:
       | 15 years - and most of the links are dead.
        
         | lucb1e wrote:
         | Sometimes I wonder how many years I'm going to keep maintaining
         | ancient pages on my server with PHP upgrades and stuff. I feel
         | bad for letting them go dead. And then I turn around and click
         | another link from three months ago and wonder why I even
         | bother...
         | 
         | And that's when I make another donation to the vital Internet
         | Archive
        
       | Zealotux wrote:
       | Sharing a small snippet I made to convert all links to web
       | archives from 2007:
       | 
       | document.querySelectorAll('.titlelink').forEach((link) =>
       | link.href = "https://web.archive.org/web/20070601000000*/" +
       | link.href);
        
         | ficklepickle wrote:
         | If you are entering this into the browser console, you can use
         | $$() as shorthand for document.querySelectorAll(), with
         | chromium-based browsers at least. As a bonus, it returns an
         | array so you can map/filter.
        
           | chrismorgan wrote:
           | Firefox dev tools also have $$ be document.querySelectorAll
           | as Array.
        
       | deadbyte wrote:
       | Longtime lurker, but thanks to everyone. I get so much value and
       | enjoyment from this community.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Brajeshwar wrote:
       | Nice. Got in about 14 years go but not active for a long time in
       | the beginning. Hackernews is a really nice place.
        
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       (page generated 2022-02-18 23:01 UTC)