[HN Gopher] From macOS to FreeBSD
___________________________________________________________________
From macOS to FreeBSD
Author : susam
Score : 203 points
Date : 2022-02-18 10:34 UTC (12 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.boucek.me)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.boucek.me)
| neric wrote:
| I was super excited to receive my new M1 MacBook pro. After a 2
| months wait, I get to work trying to setup my development
| workflow that consist of putting fullscreen windows on different
| desktops and repeatedly switching between those workspaces.
|
| Well turns out you cannot deactivate transitions between
| workspaces and there is a small delay before the new workspace is
| interactive. There is no possible way I can work like that.
|
| Went back to my ArchLinux + i3 on my Gigabyte Aero 15, happy to
| know that I'm not missing out much.
| __float wrote:
| I still find my M1 to be a way better experience: the M1 is
| quick, the fans virtually never come on, and battery life is a
| total game changer.
|
| I also never use the "Spaces" feature; why not just use
| 'maximized' windows? I use https://rectangleapp.com/ to easily
| resize windows with keyboard shortcuts, which works well.
|
| I get trying something new and not really liking it, but if
| you're going to comment, you should make an attempt to actually
| try it...
| ravenstine wrote:
| Yeah the battery life is pretty insane. It's hard to fully
| describe to anyone who hasn't had an ARM laptop.
|
| Any other laptop I've owned, including the glorious ~2015
| MBP, was liable to either hit 2% battery or completely die if
| I left it unplugged overnight, which I sometimes do
| accidentally because I like to put on some boring YouTube
| playlist as I got to sleep.
|
| With my M1 Macbook Air, I can accidentally leave it unplugged
| while playing YouTube videos all night, and I can wake up in
| the morning to find that it still has >90% battery left,
| sometimes even 95%.
|
| Most importantly, it means not having to think about whether
| the airplane has power available when I fly. I can watch
| YouTube for a full 6 hour flight with no worries. I once
| played Halo CE Anniversary through Parallels on my mac during
| a flight and it lasted 3 hours before hitting maybe 10%
| battery remaining, which is pretty good considering that's
| Xbox 360 level graphics.
| salamandersauce wrote:
| Well you lose full screen benefits of going full screen like
| no menu bar, no window title bar, the dock hides even if you
| normally like it not-hidden.
|
| Yeah you can use rectangle or BTT or one of the other dozens
| of the third party apps to do window snapping but to me at
| least they never feel quite as nice as the native options in
| Windows, KDE, Gnome, etc. Not sure why.
| kitsunesoba wrote:
| Menubar can be configured to auto-hide, though it's kinda
| moot on the built in screen of M1 Pro/Max machines since
| those have a strip of added pixels on the top for the
| menubar to live in. Won't hide the titlebar but that's such
| a small part of the screen it's never bothered me.... But
| then again I make use of titlebars frequently, the hotkey-
| dragging of tiling WMs drive me crazy.
| bartekrutkowski wrote:
| Have you tried 'Reduce motion' setting from the Accessibility
| preferences along with these:
| https://www.chriswrites.com/boost-your-macs-performance-by-d...
| ?
| Sholmesy wrote:
| It reduces motion, but it does not remove that transition.
|
| It is infuriating, as someone who is use to the instant
| switching of i3, I can't believe that it's not possible in
| MacOS.
|
| My work arounds are to not use the native fullscreen for
| anything, and just do my best to remove window-
| titles/decorations from every app i use and then make them
| "fake full screen"
| eloisius wrote:
| You're not alone. Using i3 allows me to work on muscle
| memory without going through an observe-interpret-respond
| loop with every move. It really is a shame that animated
| transitions in macOS are non-optional. Who decided that
| transitions help users? It's like tacky jQuery fade and
| swipe transitions on everything.
| agumonkey wrote:
| windows 10 also added transitions in a lot of places, quite
| deep in the UI framework, so much so that Office gets animated
| everything, including Excel cell focus gizmo.. And you have to
| cut some Windows UI effect options to stop that (at least it's
| doable). Such a horrendous idea.
| midrus wrote:
| You're wasting your time.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| Why don't these conversations ever mention GhostBSD? Is there
| really no Mint or elementary OS equivalent to BSD?
| hericium wrote:
| Few things missing for me after a similar switch are FreeBSD's
| lack of support for 80211ac and 80211ax, trackpad (I ditched
| Apple's faulty "Pro" hardware but their trackpads are awesome)
| and fingerprint scanner support for my ThinkPad (T14s AMD Gen1).
|
| What I absolutely do not miss are Apple's constant crappy UI/UX
| changes and progressing configurability deprivation delivered
| under the umbrella of secretive security updates.
|
| With Apple I had to choose between security and stable UX. No
| iPhone or Mac felt "mine" in recent years. I still use iPhone
| (lesser evil thing) but replaced MBP with ThinkPad (FreeBSD
| always had good support for ThinkPads) and am not looking back. I
| don't miss eye-candy software, designer hardware and I cherish
| configurability and that my computer is "mine" again and feels
| like a tool not a toy. Due to macOS' BSD roots, large part of my
| userland remained almost unchanged.
| christophilus wrote:
| What DE / WM are you running? And why FreeBSD instead of Linux?
| hericium wrote:
| i3wm on top of compton.
|
| Most of the time, I don't need bleeding edge and I have
| always found FreeBSD somewhat more coherent and approaching
| the future carefully, not hastily, albeit this may be related
| to much lower number of contributors.
|
| For a long time I did not cared for the fact that FreeBSD
| kernel and userland are delivered by people closely working
| together but eventually there was an epiphany after comparing
| with some more chaotic OS options. There's little things like
| system scripts delivered with correct version of interpreter
| so you don't have code deprecation warnings during boot time.
| There's documentation in place - `sysctl -d [-a]` and you
| don't need tarot, system sources or 3rd party knowledge to
| configure parts of OS.
|
| Linux is OK. If not for FreeBSD, I'd probably be using Linux
| full-time. Currently I use it virtualized for Docker builds.
| Linux is better for a lot of things that may be important to
| some but FreeBSD suits my use-cases almost perfectly. FreeBSD
| gives me this "right at home" feeling which I don't get with
| Linux and which I definitely no longer can get from a
| commercial OS.
| kloch wrote:
| I always used BSD for servers when it is an option. Linux
| distros are frustratingly different from classic BSD/SysV
| for seemingly no good reason while FreeBSD is "just right"
| for me. Same for OS X historically on workstations/laptops.
| I've tried many times to get FreeBSD working well on
| laptops but since all of my laptops are macs that has been
| unworkable.
|
| My biggest problem with OS X in recent years is the process
| bloat. Mountain Lion was the last "clean" version to have a
| reasonable number of OS processes running, now it's in the
| mid hundreds (!) It's not just resource usage, it's the
| attack surface/telemetry leakage. I only want the absolute
| minimum processes running and FreeBSD still gives me that.
| Datagenerator wrote:
| POLA, invested time stays valuable. The system is one, not
| many seperate and daily changing parts. Not having to learn
| dozens of network management and DNS resolvers gives you back
| your valuable time to focus on things you really want to do.
| On the various Linux distributions you must discover how it's
| glued together at this point in time.
| christophilus wrote:
| Linux is fragmented, to be sure, but if you go with stock
| Fedora or Ubuntu, everything just works (mostly). I never
| had to put any thought into network management or DNS,
| except to change my DNS from my ISP to Cloudflare.
| loudmax wrote:
| In my experience Fedora or Ubuntu just work, until they
| don't, usually after system update. Then you're in poorly
| documented territory, often deep in the bowels of GNOME.
| If video or networking broke hopefully you have a backup
| system to refer back to. Maybe they've gotten better
| recently, but I've had much better experience with
| minimalist setups where breakages are far less frequent
| and easier to fix on the rare occasions they happen.
| bitcharmer wrote:
| Ubuntu has been my daily driver for well over a decade
| now. As a developer I always wanted to give Fedora a try.
| Every two years or so I give it a chance and... Not even
| once did I succed in installing it.
|
| Just Google "fedora won't install" and you'll see what I
| mean. From my perspective fedora is a meme distro.
|
| Yes, I'm a power user. I just don't want to spend a whole
| day on something that's expected to work out of the box.
| christophilus wrote:
| Interesting. I'm surprised to hear that. I've never once
| had a problem, but its installer is weird. Figuring out
| how to select the target disk is always strange. Other
| than that, though, it's the same as any other installer.
|
| The thing I really like about Fedora is how recent the
| software is. I also prefer dnf to apt.
| bitcharmer wrote:
| For reference:
|
| https://ask.fedoraproject.org/t/unbootable-
| fedora-35-livecd-...
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/qmgxo4/fedora_wo
| nt_...
|
| https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1976653
|
| I really wanted it to work. I too enjoy trying out new
| versions of software but I never got to experience what
| Fedora has to offer.
| Thin_icE wrote:
| I have went back and forth from Ubuntu to fedora and
| literally never had an issue. Same for dist upgrades.
| Right now I only use fedora, and like you, I too am a
| power user that can't be bothered to deal with os
| shenanigans.
| jmnicolas wrote:
| > configurability deprivation
|
| Macs are rare machine where I live, so I have 0 experience with
| them.
|
| A few weeks ago someone came at work with a Mac for a
| presentation and nothing was showing on the projector.
|
| I had to search on the web to learn that in the screen config
| menu if you press a certain shortcut a hidden menu will appear
| and let you manage dual screen options. I'm still baffled...
|
| I still never managed to make the thing work, I had to lend a
| Windows laptop to the guy (which just plugged and played like
| you would expect from the Mac!).
| smm11 wrote:
| The older I get, the more I'm into plug-and-play.
|
| For everything.
| itsphilos wrote:
| > Note: This blog post has been rewritten at least 3 times. I
| started with describing how I configured the system, then I went
| to bragging about how I love bspwm, how I set up all my jails,
| etc. I might still write about it at some point, but not this
| time. Every time I started writing the post, I realised that I
| was missing a point. I can say now that I know what I really
| wanted to say: that I love FreeBSD and I find joy in using it.
|
| I really appreciate the honesty and I think it was a good choice
| to focus on fleshing out the message. Also: Quite the un-
| evangelistic stance on this rather controversy-inducing topic!
| SamuelAdams wrote:
| > The hardware itself also got worse. Removal of all but 2 USB-C
| ports from MacBook Pro was a last nail to the coffin for me.
|
| Small correction, the latest MacBook Pro has 4 USB-c ports and an
| HDMI port
|
| That said, is this really a big deal to people? Do you really
| still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your laptop?
|
| I use a docking station with a single USB-C cable to connect my
| Mac. Everything else connects to the dock. It's simple, it works,
| I've had this setup for six months with zero issues. Linux
| computers also work the same way.
|
| When I am working mobile, in a coffee shop or similar, I never
| use the ports. An external mouse would work with Bluetooth, and
| I've never needed to use external devices while on the go.
|
| I don't understand why people need a cocktail of barely used
| ports at all times. Is there a common workflow that I'm not aware
| of?
| normie3000 wrote:
| > Do you really still use... USB-A ports directly on your
| laptop?
|
| Yes.
| SamuelAdams wrote:
| Ok. Is there any reason you can't spend 10-20 dollars on
| USB-C cables to replace your USB-A cables?
| vaylian wrote:
| 1. Some devices don't have a removable USB-A cable
|
| 2. Why throw away something that is perfectly working and
| useful?
| sbuk wrote:
| You dont have to, spend $6.99 on a pack of 4 usb-a to c
| adapters instead.
| vanilla_nut wrote:
| Considering the number of USB-A devices I still own, it
| would be considerably more than "20-30 dollars". More like
| $200, and those are all devices, chargers, and
| travel/backup chargers I rely on regularly.
|
| It's not so simple to migrate. Consider:
|
| - Some devices have a proprietary end and a USB-A end, and
| there's no USB-C equivalent (my Pebble chargers; my
| microphone; my webcam). I have tried dongles with these
| before and left disappointed every time
|
| - some devices have a USB-A cord attached permanently, such
| as my desk lamp. Again, dongles are unreliable here and
| thus a downgrade.
|
| - For portable devices like my standalone GPS for bike
| touring, my lights for my bicycle, my phone, my watch, and
| anything else small I might want to charge when travelling
| by car... I still need USB-A for the car itself. Easier to
| pack one cable for the whole trip instead of a USB-C cord
| for hotels and a USB-A cord for the car.
|
| - My personal laptop still has USB-A ports, but no USB-C
| ports. As far as I can tell there are no non-sketchy
| adapters that go from a male USB-C cable to a female USB-A
| port. Apple makes a very expensive
| Thunderbolt2<->Thunderbolt3 adapter that I use at my desk
| when I want to use my personal laptop there, but that
| adapter is $50 or so. Already over your budget.
|
| - I don't have any USB-C wall warts at all. The last phone
| I bought was the 2016 iPhone SE. I have a plethora of USB-A
| wall warts from family and friends who didn't need them.
| They work well.
|
| Why are some people so hellbent on removing functionality
| that other people use every day and can't replace without
| significant expense and inconvenience? It's just like the
| damn headphone jack on iPhones: I understand that a lot of
| people are fine with Bluetooth only, but I am not. It's
| frustrating to lose the option.
| breakfastduck wrote:
| > Why are some people so hellbent on removing
| functionality that other people use every day and can't
| replace without significant expense and inconvenience?
|
| I imagine you were outraged when laptops started
| replacing serial ports with USB-A, too.
| cavalierfrix wrote:
| That's not really a fair comparison. USB has been around
| a long time and provides a lot of functionality.
|
| I love USB-C on my phone and think it's a great upgrade,
| but I'm not interested in contributing to more e-waste to
| upgrade a laptop that doesn't need it, just so I can buy
| more ultimately e-waste adapters with USB-C.
|
| For me, the best thing about USB-C on a laptop is
| universal charging. That's been a game changer.
| brimble wrote:
| I think I had one serial device in my house when that
| happened. And only because I was a nerd (it was a
| 3-button mouse, IIRC).
| ascagnel_ wrote:
| A better option would be to use USB-A to USB-C adapters --
| a quick check of Amazon says you can buy one for $15USD[0].
| This also side-steps the worry about devices with a
| proprietary "other end" or where the cable is unremovable
| -- all it's doing is changing the port shape on the host
| side.
|
| [0]: https://smile.amazon.com/Anker-Adapter-Converts-
| Technology-C...
| vaylian wrote:
| Absolutely yes. I still have a lot of good external devices
| that use USB-A.
| Delk wrote:
| > Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports
| directly on your laptop?
|
| For my personal laptop, my headset, USB flash drives and my
| external backup hard drives all use USB-A. So does the receiver
| for my old wireless mouse, although that one's old enough that
| almost everyone would probably have replaced it with something
| Bluetooth by now. There are also a bunch of older devices that
| I'm not using too often but which I haven't really had enough
| of a need to replace either.
|
| Any of these would of course be simple enough to replace
| individually or to use with an adapter, but it's nicer to not
| have to bother, so yes, I do use them. It's not so much that
| most of them are a part of a common workflow for me (except for
| the mouse, but as I said, that one's pretty old and it's easy
| to argue it would make sense to replace it with a Bluetooth one
| anyway). It's more that it feels wasteful to have to replace
| working peripherals simply due to older connectors, and
| cumbersome to have to use adapters. If a new laptop didn't come
| with USB-A ports, I wouldn't revolt, but it'd probably irk me
| somewhat as it's convenient to have one or two.
|
| A dock would also be fine, of course, but they can be a bit on
| the expensive side for private use.
| digisign wrote:
| Yep, I have a dock but use the laptop USB-A ports a lot for
| flash drives.
|
| Why? Because my stereo and car stereo only support USB-A.
| Would rather use sd-card.
| mistrial9 wrote:
| I use real ethernet cable for database things every day, no
| question; many people are accustomed to an HDMI setup at their
| desk, with a carry-home laptop, right?
| SamuelAdams wrote:
| Thought I would clarify, I also use an Ethernet connection.
| To the dock.
|
| Do you basically pop open your laptop with just an Ethernet
| cable connected and work like that for 8 hours?
|
| Sounds terrible to me, neck pain from constantly looking down
| at your laptop screen would not go well for me. External
| monitors mounted at eye level is the way to go.
| eadmund wrote:
| > Sounds terrible to me, neck pain from constantly looking
| down at your laptop screen would not go well for me.
|
| I have an external monitor _and_ a stand for my laptop. It
| is pretty awesome.
| brimble wrote:
| > That said, is this really a big deal to people? Do you really
| still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your
| laptop?
|
| Every panel in my house supports HDMI (so, great that they
| added it back). ONE supports USB-C, and only because I bought
| it _to use with a MacBook_.
|
| Probably 75-80% of USB devices in my house that I might want to
| plug into my laptop are still USB-A. That might hit 50/50 in
| another few years.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > Probably 75-80% of USB devices in my house that I might
| want to plug into my laptop are still USB-A.
|
| That seems...improbable.
|
| I would bet that most of the _devices_ are USB Micro-B. They
| probably came with USB-A to Micro-B cables, but you can get
| USB-C to Micro-B cables, too, and since USB-C supports a
| superset of the modes supported over Micro-B, there is no
| reduction in function (as there might be connecting a USB-C
| device with a USB-A to USB-C cable.)
|
| Of course, if you _did_ need to connect a USB-A device to
| your laptop, a USB-A to USB-C cable will do that, and are
| much easier to find than USB-A to USB-A cables you 'd need if
| it was a USB-A-only laptop.
| brimble wrote:
| OK, let me rephrase:
|
| - 100% of devices with a hard-wired cable are USB-A
|
| - Most of the rest are USB-mini or USB-micro and 100% of
| the cables that came with them or that I've acquired since
| have an A connector on the other end.
|
| - Nearly all my USB-C devices are for recent game consoles
| and I wouldn't plug them in to my MacBook except maybe to
| charge them.
|
| > Of course, if you did need to connect a USB-A device to
| your laptop, a USB-A to USB-C cable will do that, and are
| much easier to find than USB-A to USB-A cables you'd need
| if it was a USB-A-only laptop.
|
| Oh gee I didn't know adapters existed, thanks.
| eadmund wrote:
| > Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports
| directly on your laptop?
|
| At my workstation, yes: Ethernet is _so_ much faster than WiFi,
| and I like to use a real keyboard and mouse with a KVM, and the
| whole setup is USB-A & HDMI. Maybe in the future I will have a
| USB-C/HDMI/DisplayPort KVM, though.
|
| > When I am working mobile, in a coffee shop or similar, I
| never use the ports.
|
| Me neither, but I prefer to do my work in my home office, so my
| laptop spends most of its time in a stand, hooked up to an
| external portrait monitor, keyboard and mouse.
|
| > An external mouse would work with Bluetooth
|
| I would never use wireless with a peripheral. Batteries,
| security (for a keyboard; far less of a concern with a mouse),
| pairing. Just say no to RF, and yes to wires.
| 7steps2much wrote:
| > Do you really still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports
| directly on your laptop?
|
| Absolutely! I do have a dock at my desk of course, but every so
| often I need to go somewhere and plug into the network there or
| connect directly to some appliance that sets up a local network
| on one of its ports for configuration.
|
| If I could just leave my laptop plugged into my docking station
| all the time I would get a tower PC.
| hughrr wrote:
| This. People need to buy a dock and stop whining. Or buy a
| desktop Mac in the first place and stop whining.
|
| Oh I need Ethernet -> buy a dock (or fix your shitty wifi
| network).
|
| Oh I need numerous USB devices -> buy a dock.
|
| Oh I don't like BT devices -> buy a dock.
|
| Oh I want to use some crusty old USB-A devices -> buy a dock.
|
| Oh I want to use my mechanical keyboard and mouse -> why are
| you using a laptop? ... buy a dock
|
| Dell sell a very nice Thunderbolt one that has 3x USB-A's, does
| PD, has two displayport outputs that work perfectly with the M1
| macbooks (and PCs). I've got one. And it has a USB-A headset,
| mechanical keyboard and mouse connected to it and 2x 27" 4K
| displays with one single USB-C cable.
|
| But screw all that I'd rather use the laptop built in devices
| (14" M1Pro MBP) and live a simpler life where I don't have a
| bunch of balls and chains hanging around forever.
| Koshkin wrote:
| Having to lug a dock around sorta defeats the promise of
| portability.
| hughrr wrote:
| So does dragging around all the accessories that you "need"
| to plug into your laptop.
|
| All I hear is the conflicting arguments:
|
| 1. I don't want to compromise on anything.
|
| 2. I want a laptop.
| brimble wrote:
| You don't always know what you'll need to plug in to on a
| given day, when you leave the house.
|
| Old Macs covered a bunch of those cases with built-in
| ports.
|
| Modern ones cover a lot fewer so you have to carry more
| crap.
| hughrr wrote:
| I'm not plugging in anything I don't own for security
| reasons.
| brimble wrote:
| Cool, you've flatly refused to assist/present-to the
| client, and will now be-fired/lose-the-contract.
|
| See why people need to connect to stuff other than what
| they personally own?
| hughrr wrote:
| I've never had that problem in 25 years of doing this.
| brimble wrote:
| Lots of people use lots of ports that aren't USB-C, and
| are inconvenienced by having to carry dongles and extra
| cables if their laptop has very few kinds of built-in
| port. These people have actual needs and reasons behind
| their behavior. That's all. It's fine that you're not one
| of them.
| tjansen wrote:
| ... even better, if you can work with a single monitor, buy a
| USB-C monitor with built-in dock. They give you USB-A ports
| and sometimes also Ethernet. Dell has them in every size.
| ascagnel_ wrote:
| This is what I ended up doing -- I got a (relatively)
| inexpensive LG 4K monitor with USB-C, DisplayPort, and 2x
| HDMI inputs, and the monitor has a built-in headphone jack
| and a pair of USB-A ports. Plug in one cable, and my laptop
| or tablet turn into an experience that gets you close-ish
| to a desktop (the iPad still has real issues when you're
| trying to run it primarily through an external monitor,
| mostly that it only occupies a small portion of the screen
| if the app isn't specifically designed to handle an
| external display).
| xtracto wrote:
| Could you share the LG monitor model?
| ascagnel_ wrote:
| LG 27UN850-W
|
| It's a 2020 model, and they've updated it since then (the
| version listed on their website is 27UP850-W), but I
| don't think the panel itself has changed notably. I'd
| also recommend turning off the HDR support, especially if
| you're using it as a computer monitor -- all it seems to
| do is blow out reds and blues while undercooking greens.
| xtracto wrote:
| Thanks a lot!
| slig wrote:
| I got a Dell Ultrawide 38" for this reason. Unfortunately
| it has a charging USB-C bug that conflicts with Apple
| hardware and Dell doesn't care about. They explicitly tell
| that they only support Windows. The display is awesome, but
| still.
| ori_b wrote:
| I don't want to carry around a collection of bits to have a
| fully equipped laptop. I want something compact that comes in
| one piece.
| [deleted]
| hughrr wrote:
| My laptop has all the right bits inside it. Doesn't yours?
| ori_b wrote:
| Nope. No ergonomic mouse built into mine.
| BeFlatXIII wrote:
| Require people to throw away money on more docking stations?
| Not going to stop whining over that.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| > That said, is this really a big deal to people? Do you really
| still use Ethernet ports and USB-A ports directly on your
| laptop?
|
| I don't on my mac, because I can't. I don't like having to buy
| and carry a dongle. I don't like using bluetooth peripherals
| because they are more expensive and require charging the
| batteries. I don't like being forced to buy adaptors so all the
| USB tech I already own can continue to work with the MacBooks
| that every job insists I must use.
|
| > I use a docking station with a single USB-C
|
| Fine, but I don't want to carry a docking station when I'm on
| the go.
|
| > An external mouse would work with Bluetooth
|
| I already have a $100 trackball mouse and a $100 mechanical
| keyboard. I don't want to rebuy these items with (more
| expensive) Bluetooth versions since the wired versions should
| work for years and years to come. Very wasteful. Besides,
| batteries expire, and many bluetooth items don't have
| replaceable batteries. These items will stop working long
| before their wired counterparts.
|
| > I've never needed to use external devices while on the go.
|
| Makes sense you wouldn't understand the issue then. I use USB
| devices every day.
|
| > I don't understand why people need a cocktail of barely used
| ports at all times
|
| I use my USB devices every day, and not one of them plugs
| natively into my computer anymore. USB-A devices are less
| expensive and more reliable than their BT and USBC
| counterparts.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| > USB-A devices
|
| Are fairly rare, unless you are talking laptops/desktops (and
| other hosts), hubs, and wallwarts.
|
| USB Micro-B is the most common on devices that aren't USB-C.
|
| Micro-B devices connect to A hosts with an A-to-Micro-B
| cable, but you can connect them to C hosts with a C-to-
| Micro-B cable just as easily.
| brimble wrote:
| > > USB-A devices
|
| > Are fairly rare, unless you are talking laptops/desktops
| (and other hosts), hubs, and wallwarts.
|
| A new device is still much more likely to arrive with a
| USB-A connector than USB-C. Most of the devices on the
| shelf at, say, Target, come ready to be plugged in to
| USB-A, not C.
|
| Yes, you can get other cables or adapters. But if Macs
| hadn't dropped _all_ USB-A ports, that wouldn 't be
| necessary.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| I'm speaking about devices with built-in cables, for
| example my Kensington Expert trackball, USB sound card,
| external webcam, etc.
|
| Obviously I get by, but when using my Linux machine which
| has 3 USB ports, it's just simpler. I would never buy a mac
| in 2022, but work requires us to use one.
| breakfastduck wrote:
| I mean you could just use a USB-C cable and avoid every
| annoyance you've claimed.
| schwartzworld wrote:
| How do I replace the cable on my trackball? Crack open the
| case and solder?
| myfavoritedog wrote:
| Klonoar wrote:
| I keep a CalDigit dock on my desk and two small USB-C adapters
| (thumbprint sized) in my bag for when I travel and need
| Ethernet or to plug in my GameCube controller, for instance. I
| don't understand people who call this "lugging around" -
| there's very small setups out there.
|
| Haven't cared about an old school port in years. Just feels
| like an overblown concern, short of easier monitor hookup - but
| the newer MacBooks bringing that back makes this somewhat moot,
| and it should've never left to begin with.
| UncleSlacky wrote:
| helloSystem could give you the best of both worlds:
|
| https://hellosystem.github.io/docs/
| JaggerJo wrote:
| Just from looking at the first screenshot (https://raw.githubus
| ercontent.com/helloSystem/hello/master/s...)
|
| The items in the global menu are aligned incorrectly. (notice
| how the baseline of the menu item title does not match the
| baseline of the shortcut)
| UncleSlacky wrote:
| It's still in beta (0.7 at the moment) so don't expect
| miracles.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| nier wrote:
| > I would not only save 2/3 of the price
|
| For somebody familiar with Apple hardware that seems like a typo.
| Refurbished at one-third the price? Just checked and that's
| actually the case.
| sofixa wrote:
| Yep, non-Apple hardware has really low resell value, for better
| ( it's cheaper as a buyer) and worse ( if you're a seller
| intending to refresh often, you'll "lose" a lot).
| chj wrote:
| On a similar note, I turned away from MBP and use Ubuntu on T570.
| I do miss the aluminum build, but the modern linux desktop has
| improved so much in the last decade, that I don't miss the macos
| UI one bit. It feels good that the OS is not imposing itself
| between me and the hardware. For instance, you can't write x86
| assembler 32bit in the intel mac machines, why? because apple
| decided for you.
|
| I can't imagine going back to macos. To me the golden days is Mac
| OS X Lion, since then macos experience has been on a down hill
| path, trying to sell you their services, and I just tolerated
| until no longer can.
| tapoxi wrote:
| Every time I read an article like this on HN, I can't help but
| wonder, is anyone actually using a Linux/FreeBSD machine at their
| workplace? It seems these posts are all about personal machines.
|
| I'd love to use Linux professionally, but convincing IT to let me
| run something outside of their management has always been
| impossible.
|
| Edit: Geez HN, this is a legitimate question and it's currently
| at -2 karma. What's up with this place lately?
| technothrasher wrote:
| I run Debian as my development desktop here at my small company
| for embedded systems stuff, and run FreeBSD for my database,
| file, and network servers. Also run Windows for office stuff.
| Only major OS I don't run at work is MacOS (and Chrome OS),
| although I do have an M1 MacBook Air at home for personal use.
| NexRebular wrote:
| Yes, we have FreeBSD desktops in use and our infrastructure
| runs on FreeBSD, OpenBSD and illumos. Linux is also in use but
| it has mostly been banished to SmartOS zones for those few
| applications that refuse to run on other systems than linux.
| lliamander wrote:
| I've been using Linux on my work machine for nearly 5 years,
| and it's been great. I do cloud-based SaaS for a company that
| isn't exactly a tech company, but is always trying to move more
| in that direction.
|
| I think it's an option many employers should consider
| supporting as a recruiting tool, and it makes a lot of sense if
| the target runtime for the software is Linux (as is the case
| for my company).
|
| The thing is, any company that wants to make a serious
| investment in software engineering needs to have an IT
| department that can support the needs of developers separately
| from non-engineering staff.
| stevekemp wrote:
| I've been running Linux for the past 20ish years,
| professionally. In my previous company I was the only Linux-
| user, out of 50+ staff. In my current company there are
| approximately 100 employees and I'm one of two users.
|
| I have had to jump through a couple of hoops now and again,
| installing an Antivirus scanner on my Debian laptop, and
| similar things. (Jumpcloud agent at this company too). But
| broadly speaking people have said "If you can take care of it,
| and if you have full-disk encryption then that's fine".
|
| I've always mentioned it in interviews "I will expect to run
| Linux" and some people have grumbled, but nobody has said "no".
|
| For what it's worth I'm a "devops person", rather than a
| developer.
| jsz0 wrote:
| It's way more common to see people using multiple workstation
| instead. Usually a Windows/Mac laptop for everyday computing
| tasks in conjunction with a dedicated workstation for
| development.
| efficax wrote:
| You can run Linux at my company if you want, there are probably
| two dozen or so engineers who do so, out of a few hundred. I'm
| still a fan of my mac personally, although i run plenty of
| Linux servers.
|
| I know that it's not at all unusual for people to run Linux at
| Google where it has a lot of internal support, and i think
| there's a fair amount of adoption at Facebook
| the_af wrote:
| > _is anyone actually using a Linux /FreeBSD machine at their
| workplace?_
|
| Yes, in every tech company I worked at, the majority of
| developers used Linux machines (with fewer using macOS and even
| fewer Windows).
|
| I've also been using Linux for personal stuff & gaming for 10+
| years now.
| [deleted]
| davewood wrote:
| Using Debian at work and on my personal laptop for at least 10
| years now. Not missing anything.
| eadmund wrote:
| > Every time I read an article like this on HN, I can't help
| but wonder, is anyone actually using a Linux/FreeBSD machine at
| their workplace?
|
| I have been using Linux exclusively at my workplaces for over a
| decade now, and honestly it is a non-negotiable part of
| interviewing for a job for me. There is no way I would tolerate
| being stuck with Windows or macOS.
|
| There are solutions for device management for Linux, if a
| company really wants to do it, but my most recent several
| employers haven't cared one way or the other.
|
| edit: I say 'non-negotiable,' but obviously I think that for
| several tens of thousands of dollars I would be willing to use
| macOS or Windows. But it would have to be a _big_ several, not
| a small one, and I doubt anyone would put together that
| compensation package.
| jsymolon wrote:
| Running Debian (Mint / MATE) for about 8 years.
|
| Biggest issue, running Teams natively (vs web app) and
| accepting calls. The VPN plays havoc.
| nablaone wrote:
| I'm using on personal computer since '96. Professionally since
| 2000. I had a "Windows only break" for few months.
| alephNullplus1 wrote:
| Good timing for the question. Last week I had corporate IT give
| me a Windows laptop after about 15 years of running Linux at
| work.
|
| The days are gone when all I needed was a DHCP address on the
| network and I could do anything. Over the last couple of years
| we've added more layers of security at the network layer that
| would unexpectedly break me and corporate apps are increasingly
| tied into AD for authentication. Yes, these can all eventually
| be sorted out for a Linux workstation but without corporate
| support it became increasingly time-consuming and my harsh
| paymasters aren't interested in me spending time on that
| activity.
|
| I think the last straw was when the Unix admins bailed and went
| to WSL for the desktop. They were my back-door resource for
| visibility on infrastructure changes that broke things for the
| non-Windows users.
| vaylian wrote:
| AD = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Directory
| smoldesu wrote:
| WSL is fine, but it's lack of IPv6 is sort of a show-stopper
| for sysadmin work. If you're only using it for the coreutils
| then more power to you, but I still think I'd end up reaching
| for the trusty Arch Thinkpad when work needs to get done. To
| each their own, though.
| kettleballroll wrote:
| Most SWEs at my job (FAANG) run Linux on their workstations
| (not sure if there is even a other option), and a lot of them
| run it on their company laptops too (the other popular option
| is using a Mac laptop)
| drewg123 wrote:
| Yes, most of the people in my group have FreeBSD desktops where
| I work. FreeBSD is kind of the odd-man out, as our IT folks
| support Linux as a first class citizen (along side MacOS and
| Windows). So we have to use a few workarounds, but it goes
| fairly smoothly.
| vladvasiliu wrote:
| I do. "I am IT", so it helps, but we're basically OK with
| anyone "technical" (read devs & co) who wants to use anything
| else than windows. But that means they're on their own if
| random issues crop up.
| Claude_Shannon wrote:
| I'm afraid I didn't like that article. I felt like it had said
| nothing concrete. :|
|
| I saw that disclaimer, but still.
| chewmieser wrote:
| Agreed! It talked about choosing hardware and I figured it
| would go into a deep dive of the OS install, issues they
| encountered on the way, pros and cons of each... But it just
| basically ends after the hardware section.
|
| Feels like it's missing ~50% of what you'd expect from an
| article like this... I'm not really sure what the point was of
| it...
| 5etho wrote:
| do you guys think it would work: linux shop similar to apple stop
| when staff setup linux, and fix it for you while you sipping
| coffee?
| jgillich wrote:
| I have tried FreeBSD and OpenBSD on the desktop a couple years
| back, but for a while now I've felt that they're becoming
| irrelevant.
|
| * No Bluetooth support on OpenBSD at all, and it never worked on
| FreeBSD for me. Linux used to have issues with some devices, but
| it has gotten much, much better over the recent years (or devices
| have gotten better).
|
| * Wifi on Linux mostly works out of the box nowadays (with the
| exception of some Broadcom chips, but even they are getting
| better). Completely different story on the BSDs, while they have
| decent support for some vendors like Intel, they take quite a
| while to support new hardware.
|
| * Gaming is not really a thing on BSD.
|
| * Container tech like Kubernetes and Flatpak does not work on the
| BSDs.
|
| While Linux has taken a long time to catch up to Windows (and
| still isn't there yet in some areas), I feel like the BSDs lack
| the manpower or interest to even keep pace with the world around
| them. Not only are things not getting better, they are getting
| worse.
| mrlemke wrote:
| You don't need Flatpak on FreeBSD. Flatpak was created for a
| problem that doesn't exist on FreeBSD. There are not a thousand
| different FreeBSDs with varying kernels and software installed.
| jgillich wrote:
| When I say BSD doesn't support Flatpak, I mean literal
| Flatpak. I want to go to Flathub and install any piece of
| software. Yes, not possible because BSD is not Linux, but as
| a user I don't care. Flatpak has solved packaging and
| installing software across distros, and I'm not willing to
| give it up.
| znpy wrote:
| BSD people keep insisting on going back to fifteen years
| ago GNU/Linux on the desktop as if that was a great thing.
|
| I miss being young, having lots of energy, being able to
| function on 4 hours of sleep and having all my life in
| front of me as much as the next person but you'll have to
| take systemd, networkmanager, docker/kubernetes and zfs off
| my cold, dead hands.
| trasz wrote:
| You are assuming FreeBSD has the same problems Linux had
| fifteen years ago, and thus requires the same
| changes/fixes/workarounds. It doesn't. Good example would
| be PulseAudio, which is mostly a workaround for ALSA
| deficiencies that FreeBSD doesn't have.
| the_only_law wrote:
| > but you'll have to take systemd, networkmanager,
| docker/kubernetes and zfs off my cold, dead hands.
|
| I thought zfs came from Solaris/FreeBSD
| t-3 wrote:
| You're right, and they also have jails and the FreeBSD
| service command seems to have been the inspiration for
| systemd (or is at least so close that it could have
| been). I think people are just unaware and afraid of
| trying "new" things.
| blippage wrote:
| I tried FreeBSD a couple of years back, and X Windows seemed
| buggy. I mean, come on, this is something that should have been
| sorted out by now.
|
| Maybe if one were into speed and minimalism, and didn't want a
| GUI, then one of the BSDs is a good idea. At the time I thought
| it was slower than Slackware, according to my completely
| unscientific evaluation. Linux may be more complex than the
| BSDs, but remember, a lot of resources get poured into Linux.
|
| I'm glad that the BSDs exist, I'm just not particularly
| inclined to use them.
| GekkePrutser wrote:
| I moved from Mac to FreeBSD for my daily driver and I love it.
| But I use a desktop and don't use neither Bluetooth nor WiFi.
| Didn't even try to get them going.
|
| FreeBSD does have container tech, in fact it had it before
| Linux did. It's just not the same tech, its jails are its own
| invention.
|
| And gaming isn't really a thing on Mac either.
|
| Ps I use all OSes under the sun. Windows for gaming, Mac for
| work, Linux for servers and FreeBSD for my main desktop. I
| don't really do laptops but I have a Windows 11 laptop from
| work too.
| eatonphil wrote:
| I'm not a serious gamer but the only computer gaming I do I
| do on my mac. Cities Skylines for example.
| kergonath wrote:
| I spent hours upon hours in Stellaris as well.
| pseudohex wrote:
| M1 macs can take some light gaming pretty nicely actually.
| nomel wrote:
| I would agree with you, but my Steam library became almost
| entirely empty after the 64bit-only Catalina update.
| hestefisk wrote:
| Kubernetes is hardly 'container tech', but a cluster management
| and scheduling tool for large volumes of containers or VMs.
| FreeBSD has its own "container"-like feature called Jails,
| which was written by phk long before Docker / lxc / namespaces
| were a thing. For the ease of Docker's CLI and config, use
| iocage; for cluster management like k8s, look at Nomad. It
| might not be as flashy and enterprisey as the Linux equivalent,
| but FreeBSD can easily compete with Linux in containers. Btw,
| combined with ZFS, Jails are just beautiful. iocage integrates
| directly with ZFS and creates snapshots before upgrades, data
| sets per container, shared data sets for base system etc. It's
| really really nice.
| jgillich wrote:
| The number one feature of Kubernetes is that you can extend
| it, there are almost no limits to what you can do in
| Kubernetes, it's a platform for platforms. Nomad doesn't
| compare. Your enthusiasm about ZFS is roughly how I feel
| about Kubernetes, and why "traditional" approaches seem
| pretty backwards to me now. ;)
| TheCondor wrote:
| I think you are downplaying kubernetes.
|
| Nomad is very cool, as are most hashicorp creations, but it's
| not in the same class. It's a single vendor solution, has a
| lot less mileage on it, doesn't have the same flexibility. It
| may very well solve your problem but I don't know that it
| will work for as many as k8s does.
|
| Really, someone should start to enable k8s with BSD
| technologies
| hestefisk wrote:
| Realistically, how many people / companies, in reality,
| need k8s? It's a very complex solution geared at managing
| huge clusters. Sure, if you are Google or Netflix it makes
| sense. But for smaller deployments, I can't see why less
| complex solutions cannot work. K8s is a great tool, but
| it's very complex and has reinvented a lot of things, which
| traditional tools can do just as well.
| folkrav wrote:
| DevOps people with K8s knowledge are much easier to find,
| and many companies don't want to reinvent the wheel.
|
| Honestly, K8s is as complex as you need it to be. For
| smaller deployments it's working just fine too.
| jlcoff wrote:
| johntdaly wrote:
| That is interesting. I would like to hear more about jails
| and how they compare to containers on linux. This is the
| first time I've heard about nomad and I would like to here
| more. That the whole thing integrates with ZFS is news to me
| too.
|
| It is sort of sad but BSD is bad at publishing news and
| tutorials. I wish there was something like lwn and the slew
| of endless tutorials to keep me up to date with what is going
| on in the BSD world. There is so little information or it is
| so hard to find for somebody in the Mac and Linux world that
| it might as well not exist at all.
|
| And the thing is, if you "dev" on Mac or Linux and "deploy"
| on Linux, like a lot of us, you are a *NIX head and are
| interested in hearing what is new in the BSDs.
| runjake wrote:
| > It is sort of sad but BSD is bad at publishing news and
| tutorials.
|
| Say what?
|
| https://www.freebsdnews.com/
|
| http://undeadly.org/
|
| https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/
|
| https://docs.freebsd.org/en/
|
| https://mwl.io/nonfiction/os
|
| https://nostarch.com/catalog/linux-bsd-unix
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/freebsd/
| lmohseni wrote:
| The FreeBSD youtube channel is great for long-form intros
| and talks, if you are curious:
| https://www.youtube.com/c/FreeBSDProject
| Koshkin wrote:
| https://www.freebsdnews.com/
| riedel wrote:
| Seems dead since beginning of last year. Any idea what
| happened.
| mekster wrote:
| Always wondered why anyone would use desktop on BSD.
|
| Use stuff where it fits well for its purpose.
|
| I use Windows only for gaming, Mac for development and Linux
| for servers where they excel at what they do.
|
| Also I really don't get why BSD developers care to develop
| desktop environment with their limited resource but they should
| just concentrate on server offerings if they want to stay
| relevant besides having a more free license than Linux.
| moffkalast wrote:
| > Mac for development
|
| Is Mac really any better than Windows or Linux for dev? Or is
| it just that a Macbook is more convenient to carry around?
| kergonath wrote:
| Compared to Linux it's a toss up. Though the Mac UI is
| miles ahead of standard Linux; you have to spend quite a
| long time tuning your DE to get something good and even
| then there is UI consistency across toolkits. The Mac has
| things like Office, Photoshop, Affinity Photo, more games
| as well. Linux has better package managers and is more
| customisable.
|
| Both are vastly better than Windows for development.
| fartcannon wrote:
| The Mac OSX UI is at least as bad as Windows. FFS Finder,
| guys!
| mekster wrote:
| Never liked Finder but you can have alternatives like
| ForkLift and Transmit. I even enabled "Quit Finder" to
| get it out of my alt-tabbing.
| mekster wrote:
| Frankly, the tools themselves are quite similar for the web
| dev that I do, so I can have the same set of tools running
| on either OS but it's the little utilities that counts.
|
| There may be alternatives in Windows with same quality but
| haven't looked at Windows other than gaming for a while.
|
| - QR code generator on copy (No you don't paste nor hit the
| generate button but it produces the code on copy while the
| app is running)
|
| - Clipboard manager that can search and preview images
| even. Who can live without a good clipboard manager these
| days? Losing password you just generated because you copied
| your user name should be a thing of the past. I heard Win11
| finally getting one. Didn't find any good third party ones
| the last time I looked.
|
| - Trackpad. This is such a good stuff, I just swipe down
| with my 3 fingers to close any tab/window with customizable
| gestures. No more hitting the tiny close button and plenty
| others tailored for each app as if my right hand is a magic
| wand.
|
| - A good terminal with even better third party one. Windows
| finally getting Windows Terminal or WSL shell but was a
| decade late to the entry.
|
| - iOS simulator. It's handy to check how a web site behaves
| in iOS within your OS.
|
| - Develop for iOS/macOS. For those who do.
|
| And generally the better look throughout than the
| convoluted structure of Windows app with 10 drop downs in
| the menu bar, 20 icons below that, with settings hidden
| under, settings -> advanced -> more.
|
| And it's even worse when it comes to OS setting that is
| cross buried in the new settings and the control panel that
| still exists.
|
| I don't get distracted by the OS except for the occasional
| OS update that would hold me up for 10 minutes.
|
| And the hardware is good too and I guess no one complains
| Mac is expensive when an Air is like $1k.
| gglitch wrote:
| For me _personally_ , moving back to Linux has been a huge
| improvement. Absolutely the only thing I miss from my mbp
| was having out-of-the-box keymapping of Control to Control
| and Command to Super, giving me readline throughout the
| system. I'm sure there's a straightforward way to produce
| this in KDE, but it'd be nice not to have to monkey with
| it. Readline is amazing.
| inopinatus wrote:
| > Also I really don't get why BSD developers care to develop
| desktop environment with their limited resource
|
| Because they want to: they are the limited resource, and have
| agency. They may allocate their time as they please, and to
| their own benefit and preferences. Why should they pander to
| yours, when you don't even use it, let alone contribute? I
| struggle to comprehend how such an over-entitled expectation
| arises.
|
| > if they want to stay relevant
|
| I don't think you realise the sheer scale of the
| unobtrusively installed BSD base, from fundamental
| infrastructure (SANs, routers) to home entertainment systems
| (PS5) and more besides.
|
| And of course, rather notoriously, BSD origins still account
| for a fair chunk of the userland on that Mac of yours.
| mekster wrote:
| I used to use BSD on my hobby server just to keep up with
| the BSD world but nowadays on Linux, I use various packages
| from Docker hub and little tools from Homebrew but they
| don't work on BSD and I've lost the reason to use BSD
| especially when Ubuntu offers zfs in easy to use packages.
|
| I don't use BSD nor Linux for desktop because I like the
| third party tools offered on macOS for work and now I don't
| know what BSD is for me. I'm also amazed how FreeBSD
| doesn't care to make it work on Raspberry Pi.
|
| Perhaps I'm not the only one in the same boat and people
| may stop packaging tools for BSD and less people may use
| it.
|
| Not my business but just an advice.
|
| I see the license is a big part that keeps BSD rolling
| where the manufacturers want to keep their changes to their
| own and I get it that people should thank how OpenSSH is
| developed upstream at OpenBSD.
| 1500100900 wrote:
| > I don't use BSD nor Linux for desktop because I like
| the third party tools offered on macOS for work and now I
| don't know what BSD is for me. I'm also amazed how
| FreeBSD doesn't care to make it work on Raspberry Pi.
|
| Where did you get that from? Maybe they care, but it's
| not that easy for some technical reason?
| Koshkin wrote:
| People say it's Windows that excels for development (because
| of Visual Studio), and gaming on Linux is not a huge problem
| anymore. And BSDs (FreeBSD and Dragonfly, in particular) do
| excel on the server side. I'd agree that it's still the Year
| of MacOS on the Desktop, although Linux is catching up pretty
| quickly (while Windows is receding into sheer madness).
| mrits wrote:
| Gaming on Linux is as bad as it's been in a long time and
| is only going to get worst because of anti-cheat systems.
|
| Visual Studio is on more platforms than Windows and not
| even the preferred IDE of most devs on Windows unless they
| are doing .NET.
|
| FreeBSD does not excel on the server side. I don't know any
| companies that even use it and I spent the last decade
| consulting with hundreds of companies.
| noirbot wrote:
| I'm sure it depends on the games you want to play -
| competitive games where anti-cheat is a thing, sure, but
| if you're ideologically against having kernel level anti-
| cheat then that's not that Linux gaming is bad, it's just
| that gaming as a whole is bad.
|
| Most single-player stuff I've tried has worked fine on
| Linux with either Lutris + Wine or Steam + Proton. The
| only games that haven't are super small indie stuff where
| I just assume they're coded a little poorly in some way.
| wang_li wrote:
| >FreeBSD does not excel on the server side. I don't know
| any companies that even use it and I spent the last
| decade consulting with hundreds of companies.
|
| Examples come to mind: Whatsapp and Hotmail used to use
| it before being acquired by companies with their own tech
| stacks. Netflix's streaming service is based on it.
| Pfsense was based on it at one time, not sure if it still
| is. Juniper uses it. If you go check out the FreeBSD
| Foundation donations pages you'll see Facebook,
| Microsoft, Google, Netflix, and others.
|
| Reality is that on the server and in the data center all
| I need from an OS is a near posix userland and wired
| network and storage drivers.
| mekster wrote:
| I always wondered how FreeBSD foundation is run.
|
| https://freebsdfoundation.org/about-us/about-the-
| foundation/...
|
| They have so little income with those sponsors and
| multiple times that expense and who is covering the cost?
|
| The total income is like one guy's salary and is that all
| those big names are paying as sponsors?
| gundamdoubleO wrote:
| You're kidding right? Linux gaming compatibility has been
| near ideal for me for the past year and we already know
| the anti-cheat situation is at least being worked thanks
| to vendors like Valve. I haven't boot into Windows for a
| long time for gaming. The only real exceptions being
| Microsoft exclusives or multiplayer EGS titles.
| jmnicolas wrote:
| > Visual Studio is on more platforms than Windows
|
| No, Visual Studio for Macs is a rebranded Mono thing, it
| has nothing to do with the Windows Visual Studio. There's
| no VS for Linux.
|
| Of course MS had to complicate things by naming their
| electron editor Visual Studio Code...
| pjmlp wrote:
| Nope, Visual Studio for Mac started as a rebranded Mono
| thing after Xamarin acquisition.
|
| Since then, the amount of plugins shared with Visual
| Studio has increased, which is a reason why Microsoft
| started pushing to write them in C# instead of COM.
|
| Currently it is being rewritten, and should be mostly
| completly unrelated to Mono Develop by .NET 7 release.
| breakfastduck wrote:
| This comment is wrong on so many levels.
|
| But to tackle the main one, gaming on Linux is in the
| _best_ position it 's ever been in. It's not getting
| 'worse' due to anti cheat, in fact the steamdeck and
| valve are actively bringing compatibility to linux for
| those things.
|
| What can you possibly be basing your claim on there? Are
| you aware of proton?
| headhuntermdk wrote:
| I'm guessing you haven't heard of Netflix then
|
| https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-epyc-cpus-netflix-
| band...
| mrits wrote:
| The widely known use cases for FreeBSD doesn't have much
| to do with it "excelling" as a server OS.
| Shared404 wrote:
| Where does FreeBSD excel then, because last time I
| checked all the widely known use cases were split about
| 50/50 serving and routing, with a side of Playstation.
|
| Re: Linux gaming: Sorry, I couldn't hear you over the
| sound of the MCC playing on my Linux box. And Ori. And
| Stardew, RoR2, Everspace, XCOM2, SWTOR, Hades, DST,
| Hollow Knight, FTL, Terraria, Human Fall Flat, Portal
| 1/2, and a variety of other games.
|
| As far as anticheat is concerned, that's actively being
| worked on by Valve and the largest stake holders.
| mrits wrote:
| Now list the games that you can't play
| Shared404 wrote:
| Literally none that I've tried have given me problems.
|
| But to the working games, let me add: Overwatch, League
| of Legends, Anything from
| GBA/GB/NES/SNES/DS/OtherRetroSystems, Starcraft. Oh, and
| Minecraft of course.
|
| I'm sure I can come up with more.
|
| Edit: One steam library checking later - and I'll note,
| this is stuff that I've actually played on Linux (and is
| also filtered by names I think people would recognize):
| Arma 3, Blitzkrieg 2, Pit People, Castle Crashers,
| BattleBlock Theater, Unturned, Invisible Inc., Baldurs
| Gate, Undertale, Speedrunners, Dota 2, Gary's Mod,
| Everspace, Raft, AoE 3.
|
| This makes up the VAST majority of my steam library, none
| of which was purchased checking for Linux compatibility.
|
| It's one thing to say that a specific game _you_ want
| doesn 't work, and quite another to say it in general
| doesn't work.
|
| Edit again: Rocket League. That's it. That's the only one
| that I know of issues with, and I don't know if it even
| still has issues - I stopped playing when it required an
| Epic account.
|
| Oh hey, lookie there: https://www.protondb.com/app/252950
| . Sounds like that works too.
| trasz wrote:
| You could (to some extent) say the same thing about
| FreeBSD: https://github.com/shkhln/linuxulator-steam-
| utils/wiki/Compa...
| NexRebular wrote:
| There's also Proton port but have no idea on how it works
| nowadays.
|
| https://www.freshports.org/emulators/wine-proton/
| city41 wrote:
| Windows excels at development if you're using Microsoft
| tech. Virtually all other tech stacks are at a disadvantage
| on Windows. WSL and WSL2 were created largely to address
| this gap.
| pjmlp wrote:
| WSL and WSL2 were created to target the market of people
| that buy Mac laptops when they should be supporting Linux
| OEMs.
|
| People that don't care what OS they are running, as long
| as they get their POSIX toys.
|
| In fact, given the size of that market, most likely Linux
| would never happened if Microsoft had been half as
| serious with Windows NT POSIX subsystem.
| hnfong wrote:
| Yeah, GNU/NT would have changed everything.
|
| Instead we got cygwin :-/
| CRConrad wrote:
| > Instead we got cygwin :-/
|
| I've only used what I think is a subset (of a clone or
| subset?) of Cygwin: "git bash". At two jobs, on two
| different Win 10 laptops now.
|
| Is the rest of Cygwin also as excruciatingly slow?
| pjmlp wrote:
| Windows NT POSIX subsystem was more like BSD/NT, basic
| effort.
|
| And SUA was also not much GNU related.
| sgjohnson wrote:
| > People say it's Windows that excels for development
| (because of Visual Studio)
|
| Depends on the development you're doing. .NET or C# --
| Windows, hands down. That's about it.
|
| Besides, I prefer JetBrains IDEs anyway, which are platform
| agnostic.
|
| And I'm in the same boat, macOS for work/development,
| loonix on VMs/servers, and Windows is strictly for gaming.
| dilippkumar wrote:
| > ...and Dragonfly, in particular...
|
| Can you please elaborate? My exposure to DragonflyBSD is
| limited to knowing that they have an interesting new
| filesystem (Hammer2).
|
| What is it like to actually use it? Is Hammer2 a
| significant improvement over ZFS on FreeBSD? Does Dragonfly
| have other selling points?
|
| I'd love to hear the strongest case for deploying
| Dragonfly.
| UI_at_80x24 wrote:
| I use it (FreeBSD) because I want my workstation to match my
| servers when it comes to basics like the environment
| variables, kernel versions, and packages.
|
| I manage 100+ servers, and 1000+ domains. If I want to make
| sure that a security patch for a critical CVE doesn't fuck
| with our systems, or I want to test a new script to make sure
| it works I do the following:
|
| ZFS snapshot of my "dev jail". Apply the patch/write the
| script. Test everything and make sure it still works.
| Ansible: ZFS snapshot the fleet, apply the patch/deploy the
| script
|
| So gaming and other 'fun' things are not my goal on my
| workstation, I do use it. There's at least One of us!
|
| Because it's what my servers use, it's what I want to use on
| my desktop. I'd like to add here that I LOVE using i3. I'm
| from an age where the OS is supposed to get out of the way. I
| want to use my programs, not my operating system.
| na85 wrote:
| BSDs pretty consistently perform at the bottom of most
| performance benchmarks I've seen, when compared to Linux.
|
| NetBSD appears to have embraced a niche as a research OS, not
| sure about the other distros.
| trasz wrote:
| Let me guess, the benchmarks you have in mind are Phoronix,
| right? :->
| na85 wrote:
| No I think I saw them on openbenchmarking, why?
| trasz wrote:
| Looking at openbenchmarking.org, it seems they are
| related to Phoronix?
|
| As to why - essentially, Phoronix benchmarks are crap,
| for a number of reasons:
|
| 1. They don't provide things like standard deviation
|
| 2. They compile software in improper way
|
| 3. They don't even know what are they measuring in the
| first place
|
| It's been pointed to them numerous times, and honestly, I
| think it's a waste of time.
| na85 wrote:
| I dunno, sounds like sour grapes to me.
|
| Those benchmarks are in agreement with my subjective
| experience of running (open)bsd on an allegedly well-
| suoported thinkpad: compared to debian, bsd was sluggish
| and lasted _hours_ less on battery.
| 1500100900 wrote:
| Performance is not the top priority for OpenBSD
| developers.
| netr0ute wrote:
| > I feel like the BSDs lack the manpower or interest to even
| keep pace with the world around them
|
| That's rich considering that one design goal of OpenBSD is to
| stay the same no matter what happens around it.
| jgillich wrote:
| I totally respect that, but that's not how you stay relevant
| for anyone but old-school Unix hackers.
| netr0ute wrote:
| I thought that was the point of things like OpenBSD.
| breakfastduck wrote:
| I'd say being actively used to run the largest streaming
| service on the planet makes you pretty relevant.
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o-HcG8QxPc
| 1_player wrote:
| Possibly unpopular opinion but serving a lot of data via
| Ethernet is much simpler than creating a low latency
| modern hardware accelerated desktop with VR support and
| playing audio through my latest Bluetooth headset.
| trasz wrote:
| That's another use case which works way better under
| somewhat modified FreeBSD (PlayStation) than under Linux.
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| simpler on paper sure. definitely not easy of course
| hestefisk wrote:
| What I really like about *BSD is that things mostly stay the
| same, although there are examples of the contrary (ZFS
| adoption, DTrace in FreeBSD, pledge in OpenBSD). Both systems
| are stable, reliable and just get out of your way.
| pinephoneguy wrote:
| IIRC BSDs had containers first but they worked slightly
| differently.
| ok123456 wrote:
| You have bsdgames. What else could you want?
| Koshkin wrote:
| Doom
| anthk wrote:
| On OpenBSD and gaming, check PlayOnBSD. Of course is nowhere
| near Linux or even FreeBSD, but you can set an XFCE desktop
| with GVFS supported device automounting withou too much hazzle.
| niahmiah wrote:
| Came to say very similar things. Thanks for saving me this
| time.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| I think that's a feature of the BSD model. Almost every company
| making network appliances, etc uses BSD as a baseline, but they
| don't necessarily contribute back or consistently drive
| development. I think the Linux model has better incentives.
|
| The other thing is that the markets the BSD has been
| historically dominant are dying and consolidating. The world is
| cloud and cloud is mostly Linux.
| satao wrote:
| What do you mean by 'the Linux model'?
| Spooky23 wrote:
| GPL
| anthk wrote:
| Linux's cloud overcomplication will make the OS collapse into
| itself as Windows servers did long ago. People will switch to
| more simple systems.
| smm11 wrote:
| Yeah, they'll switch to another cloud that obscures the
| layers. We don't need to re-invent the wheel, we just have
| to make the wheel better.
| pjmlp wrote:
| It is already happening with the FOSS POSIX competition on
| IoT platforms anyway.
| Spooky23 wrote:
| I agree, and I think you're starting to see that with the
| container spins of Linux.
|
| I'd guess that in a 10 years, somebody will ditch ancient
| POSIX stuff and hardware support and do something new.
| pjmlp wrote:
| POSIX will be still around, because UNIX compatibility,
| but not necessarily on top of Linux.
| digisign wrote:
| Interesting... I've never used bluetooth or flatpak... or any
| BSD except in a VM for compat testing. Yet they are described
| as must haves here.
| thesuitonym wrote:
| One thing I like about OpenBSD as a desktop is that it's
| extremely focused. Yeah, it's not a good system for playing
| games, but neither is the laptop I want to run it on. Yeah,
| there aren't a lot of wifi chips that it supports, but when a
| wifi chipset works, it just works. None of that Linux ``yeah it
| kind of works, but you have to jump through all these
| hoops...'' nonsense. It either works, or it doesn't.
|
| Yes, there are many things you can't do on an OpenBSD system,
| but those are things you wouldn't really want to do on an
| OpenBSD system anyway.
| dilippkumar wrote:
| One thing about OpenBSD that impressed me is that whatever is
| supported is supported _correctly_.
|
| My go to example is my laptop's keyboard backlight works
| exactly as expected from tty terminals.
|
| I'm willing to limit my hardware options to the small subset
| that works with OpenBSD in return for having an OS that I can
| trust. Fortunately, this small subset includes the X1 Carbon
| thinkpads which are really nice.
|
| I'm experimenting living with a combination of iPad + openBSD
| thinkpad - iPad for things like Netflix and Zoom where the
| business isn't interested in supporting openBSD, and my
| laptop for everything else.
|
| PS: Bluetooth is a terrible protocol and should be nuked from
| orbit out of existence. None of my 5 bluetooth headphones
| (from different vendors and different price ranges) can
| figure out which device I was last playing from, my car
| repeatedly steals my bluetooth audio and starts playing music
| without my consent _every single time_ , audio stops
| streaming randomly despite my phone/iPad thinking that they
| are connected and continuing to play - I can rant for a long
| time. I genuinely respect openBSD developers for deleting the
| bluetooth stack to improve the OS quality.
| Melatonic wrote:
| Never considered a BSD general desktop use OS but you are
| really making me consider installing it on my old Thinkpad
| T420 which is still going strong and upgraded quite a bit.
| anthk wrote:
| On wireless:
|
| /etc/hostname.foobar
|
| lladdr random
|
| join ESSID wpakey blahblahb
|
| inet autoconf
|
| inet6 autoconf
|
| That's it.
| [deleted]
| fartcannon wrote:
| It's beautiful because it's not only simple, but you get
| the understand more of what's going on.
| Koshkin wrote:
| > _It either works, or it doesn 't._
|
| Sounds like that 50/50 joke (about the likelihood of bumping
| into a dinosaur in the street).
| radikalerludwig wrote:
| > * Gaming is not really a thing on BSD
|
| Sony has a different story to tell
| steerablesafe wrote:
| It doesn't help you when you want to run BSD on your laptop
| or desktop.
| gilrain wrote:
| This post is opaquely referring to the fact that the
| Playstation 4 os is based on FreeBSD. Obviously, this is
| interesting but irrelevant.
| gh02t wrote:
| Sony also doesn't contribute much of that code back to
| FreeBSD.
| sitzkrieg wrote:
| did they contribute _anything_ back?
| sgjohnson wrote:
| Related (and a fun watch!)
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMiubC6LdTA
| radikalerludwig wrote:
| just as the os under the ps3 and ps5
| lizknope wrote:
| I've got a MacBook Air and MacBook Pro from 2011 and 2012.
| Neither is supported by Mac OS X anymore but Fedora 35 works
| perfectly on them. Both have Broadcom WiFi chips.
| dangerface wrote:
| I love freebsd use it every where I can but its not very good in
| a desktop / laptop environment missing a lot of drivers for
| things like wifi and bluetooth on most laptops. The freebsd ports
| tree is what makes it so amazing but the ports for desktop
| applications are not as well maintained as the server stuff.
| Since all those programs work on linux and fedora provides a
| better desktop experience by default I just go with that.
| hunter-gatherer wrote:
| I had a similar experience. I have used linux since I was in
| highschool until 2009 when I got a macbook. I initially loved it
| for the same reasons as the author but grew more frustrated and
| was less enthused every year. In 2013 the computer finally
| crashed during an update, and i was never able to get it to
| properly work. At the time I installed linux on a 2005 era PC and
| had no issues and this carried me the rest of the way through
| college. I've been back on linux since.
|
| My employer sent me a dell, mac, and a forensics workstation. I
| use windows, macos, and linux daily. Aside from the trackpad and
| display, I'm actually the least impressed with the macbook. Maybe
| if I was running windows 11 things would be different.
|
| I really don't see the magic that everyobe else sees in Apple
| products.
| Melatonic wrote:
| I like FreeBSD quite a bit for some things but a desktop OS would
| likely not be one of them
| jsz0 wrote:
| As a Mac user since 2004 I recently found myself seriously
| considering other options. Mainly due to the huge regression in
| UI/UX over the last 2-3 years. Most first party apps have become
| less functional and harder to use. I'm struggling to use these
| apps full of tiny gray similar looking icons that don't exactly
| work in similar ways. Is it my imagination or does drag and drop
| simply not work reliably on macOS anymore? Finder in column view
| is being the one I fight with constantly.
| alberth wrote:
| Off topic: has anyone tried nix on FreeBSD? How is it?
| pshirshov wrote:
| No 802.11ac, no declarative configurations (like in Nixos).
|
| What's the point?
| prmoustache wrote:
| Not everybody got 802.11ac at home already and most people are
| fine with 802.11n speed for their personnal usage. I would say
| this is irrelevant for a large fraction of the population.
|
| Also not everybody need declarative configuration, especially
| when talking about a monodevice scope.
| Asmod4n wrote:
| 802.11ac came out 2013.
| prmoustache wrote:
| And a lot of people only get a new access point when they
| either receive a new router from their providers or change
| providers.
|
| This is not uncommon to have the same wireless access point
| for a decade or so and people are generally fine with it.
| Also most people don't even know there are different
| revisions of the wifi standard and if you say 802.11 they
| will just look at you with clueless eyes.
|
| I am not saying it is ok for any OS to not support it but
| it doesn't necessarily affect everyone's life.
|
| Some work is done on that front though:
| https://wiki.freebsd.org/WiFi/80211ac
| dangerface wrote:
| Sure most people don't upgrade their router very often
| but those people probably aren't the ones interested in
| using freebsd as their desktop, I doubt they have even
| heard of freebsd or would care to hear about it.
|
| The type of person that will install freebsd on a laptop
| and then setup all the configuration is probably very
| techy and would want the best tech, os, wifi.
| Asmod4n wrote:
| Hm, as far as I can tell FreeBSD has drivers for ac
| cards, but they only support WiFi 4 at the protocol
| level?
| Findecanor wrote:
| It's not just about speed. I live in an apartment block where
| so many people have got WiFi networks and Bluetooth devices
| that the 2.4GHz band has become heavily congested. These
| days, I need 802.11ac on the 5GHz band just to get a
| connection on my tablet in the bedroom to the router in the
| hallway ...
| salamandersauce wrote:
| There is 5GHz N. Not as common in devices or routers
| though.
| trasz wrote:
| I'm not sure I've ever seen a 80211n device that _didn't_
| support 5GHz.
| salamandersauce wrote:
| A lot of low end consumer devices don't. For example the
| PS Vita supports N but not 5GHz, nor do most kindles
| until the latest Paperwhite. It was also super common for
| cheap $400 laptops in 2011 to have N but not 5Ghz
| support.
| Klonoar wrote:
| I believe Nintendo didn't support it until the Switch,
| surprisingly - the WiiU was 2.4 only.
| salamandersauce wrote:
| Not for the internet but Wii U uses 5GHz for streaming to
| the gamepad.
| Klonoar wrote:
| Guess that explains the poor range issue people cited
| back in its heydey.
| joshenders wrote:
| To desperately cling to the past out of fear of the future.
| bigp3t3 wrote:
| While I'm sure we all understand your sentiment, I think
| you're missing the point. This isn't the future we /users/
| want. It's the future that corporations, silly commities and
| greed-/arrogance-/bling-motivated decision makers are
| dictating to the rest of the world.
|
| What we're witnessing in these Thinkpad, right-to-repair,
| yEaR oF tEh nix dEsKtop conversations, is people taking back
| control of the devices we own. At the cost of compromises the
| same decision makers are not willing to allow you to make.
|
| It's easy to look at these case studys as outliers or edge
| cases as someone who probably lives in the first world,
| adding to the pile of e-waste by perpetuating and encouraging
| the behaviour supporting companies like Apple.
|
| What I see as an IT engineer at mid-size MSP is the SMB/SME
| market and their staff struggle with adapting to the ever-
| changing technologies. I feel their pain, because I'm the one
| that has to make old work with new. Privateers and coders get
| to choose their environment for the most part. Businesses
| have baggage, standard operating procedures and a mix of
| requirements. And then you get people like Apple thinking we
| can all live wirelessly or with exorbitantly priced adapters
| and less choice as consumers of their products... it's
| arrogant and user-hostile.
| anthk wrote:
| One day you'll understand that everything it's cyclic. Flat
| interfaces will be toshed out for semi 3D interfaces such as
| the ones from Aqua/Haiku/Windows 9x and so on.
|
| Most of the Linux solutions are overengineered, btw. They had
| to release Pipewire for _everything_ as OpenBSD did with
| sndio. And yet ALSA adds a layer of cruft and complications.
| Sndio+OSS just works.
|
| So, I think keeping yourself on a simple design path makes
| the future much easier.
|
| For example, MTP on phones suck, up to the point that using
| SFTP with some server from FDROID makes the data sharing back
| and forth much, much better.
|
| Ditto with rclone vs 200 providers with their own GUI for
| everything.
|
| Or age and/or signify vs OpenSSL or GPG2 being used to
| encrypt files where those have options for everything
| encrypting/signing related.
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| MTP (not a Linux solution anyway) is several orders of
| magnitude simpler than SFTP, though (no encryption to begin
| with, albeit there is XML which sadly may compete in
| complexity).
| smackeyacky wrote:
| I think the point is that the big two personal computer
| operating systems have become so user hostile that alternatives
| are looking good.
|
| FreeBSD wouldn't be my choice either but for a mac refugee it
| makes sense.
| mekster wrote:
| What do you mean by hostile?
| eloisius wrote:
| Subverting user's intentions by doing things like resetting
| the default browser on every update, or forcing you into
| their App Store ecosystem by making it like pulling teeth
| to download an app from the internet and run it.
| mekster wrote:
| Doesn't sound critical at all.
| pshirshov wrote:
| How is Linux hostile?
| smackeyacky wrote:
| Windows and OSX, not linux.
|
| All the stupid stuff they force down your neck: must be a
| registered user in their system rather than just a local
| user. The app stores. The deprecation of perfectly good
| hardware. Forced updates on their schedule. Monitoring of
| user actions turned on by default. Changing preferences
| without asking.
|
| All of it is getting in the way of you actually using your
| own device on your own terms.
| curt15 wrote:
| How about ZFS?
| mekster wrote:
| It's easy to use zfs on Ubuntu.
| necovek wrote:
| It also integrates great with LXD (a nicer way to use
| containers).
| anthk wrote:
| >no declarative configurations (like in Nixos)
|
| OpenBSD autoinstall and two scripts for desktop packages and
| daemons. The whole user config is a TGZ. Done, and much faster
| than setting up Nix OS env.
| pshirshov wrote:
| What about maintenance?
| hutrdvnj wrote:
| Can someone explain to me why FreeBSD doesn't support 802.11ac?
| trasz wrote:
| No particular reason, really; it's being worked on: https://w
| ww.freebsd.org/status/report-2021-07-2021-09/#_inte...
| ggm wrote:
| Because blobs,almost certainly. Binary blobs which expect
| certain syscalls which Linux does and writing the FreeBSD
| equivalents is time consuming and expert knowledge driven.
|
| A guess, is all.
| tonyedgecombe wrote:
| >During the years, Apple started turning away from this beautiful
| UI into a world of plain, soulless and minimalistic UI.
|
| A couple of years ago I ran every version of OS/X from 10.1 up
| the current release, each for a couple of weeks. One of the
| things that surprised me was how consistent it has been when I
| compare it to the alternatives. The only UI change that has
| really bothered me is hiding the proxy icon.
| mastercheif wrote:
| Proxy icons have been brought back as an "accessibility" option
| in macOS 12 Monterey jsyk:
| https://twitter.com/getaaron/status/1415432451200008195
| jtbayly wrote:
| Thanks for this! I had no idea.
| xianwen wrote:
| It seems some FreeBSD developers use macOS themselves, instead of
| FreeBSD. I found this quite peculiar.
| drewg123 wrote:
| I'm a FreeBSD developer and run FreeBSD on my desktop, and
| MacOS on my laptop. I have not had a great experience with any
| *nix other than MacOS on a laptop.
|
| My main objection to MacOS & why I don't run it on my desktop
| is that I can't configure window management exactly how I want
| it, like I can with KDE or LXDE. Most of what I can't do
| centers around muscle memory for window management tricks
| involving mouse buttons and modifier keys. This goes away on a
| laptop with a trackpad, since the muscle memory is different
| with a trackpad than with a mouse.
| waz0wski wrote:
| I used FreeBSD on desktop for a number of years and switched
| over to OSX and I've been through some of the window
| management pain. I generally do as much as I can with
| keyboard hotkeys but I do have a trackpad connected to my
| desktop now as well.
|
| As far as window management, I use contexts for my switcher,
| rectangle for hotkey-based window management, and stay for
| automated per-app & per-display window management
|
| https://contexts.co
|
| https://rectangleapp.com
|
| https://cordlessdog.com/stay
|
| There's also alternate window managers for OSX such as Yabai
| or Amethyst
|
| https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai
|
| https://github.com/ianyh/Amethyst
| nallerooth wrote:
| Would you board an airliner where you wrote the navigational
| software? /just kidding
|
| I guess there are devs who spend quite a lot of time in macOS
| in order to work on things like https://airyx.org/.
| mekster wrote:
| People like to spend less time fighting the OS? That's the
| norm, not peculiar.
| 1500100900 wrote:
| "Fighting the OS" you develop may lead to you fixing the
| errors and deficiencies of the system that annoy you and
| possibly annoy other people too.
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| This has also been true in Linux developer conferences. About
| 10 years ago, it was difficult seeing anyone running desktop
| Linux, and even more difficult seeing non-Apple hardware. Last
| 5 years situation changed significantly.
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