[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams ...
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       Ask HN: Why is MS Teams so slow, do devs test Teams on less
       powerful machines?
        
       I have a laptop with an i5 processor and 8G of RAM. Hard drive is
       an SSD. It sometimes takes me a full minute and a half to get Teams
       open and ready to join a meeting. It is driving me crazy.
        
       Author : mmsimanga
       Score  : 68 points
       Date   : 2022-02-17 20:35 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
       | faebi wrote:
       | Interestingly, the interaction latency goes down from 1-2 seconds
       | to near instant when I switch from the native Mac App to the web
       | version with Firefox Nightly. I am using a fancy fast M1 Pro.
       | It's ridiculous that Firefox is faster and not slower than their
       | own app.
        
       | shrimp_emoji wrote:
       | Not only slow, but the most buggy IM I've ever used. (Both web
       | and native.)
       | 
       | We have a decades-long history of IM platforms, and I've never
       | seen one where messages were randomly deleted from DM history or
       | tell me "we lost your picture; please attach it again" when
       | editing a message (extra fun when it was a temporary snippet from
       | the clipboard[0]).
       | 
       | 0: Extra extra fun considering Windows doesn't have clipboard
       | history like Linux DEs have for years.
        
         | david_allison wrote:
         | > Extra extra fun considering Windows doesn't have clipboard
         | history like Linux DEs have for years.
         | 
         | Windows + V allows you to enable it.
        
       | sangupta wrote:
       | I had a similar issue but with an i9/16GB RAM/SSD. Teams would
       | open really slow, hang a lot and the best, drop off meetings in
       | between as soon as I activated other applications. I use
       | Slack/Outlook a lot and this aggravated the problem. Solution was
       | to upgrade to latest Macbook with 32GB RAM. It now runs though I
       | still have issues - just the audio goes out between meetings. I
       | was lucky to have the work laptop upgraded.
       | 
       | In short, Teams is crap. My daughter uses Google Meet at school
       | and its so fast/fun/easy on an old 8GB laptop.
        
       | jug wrote:
       | Yes, it's because it's shipping with an entire web browser.
       | Although I agree with others here this is only part of the
       | problems with MS Teams. It's not a very fun application to use,
       | honestly. Everything is sluggish and many UI decisions are not
       | great.
       | 
       | But at least the performance should get better some day.
       | Microsoft has now made the "personal" edition of Teams that is
       | shipping with Windows 11 into one that instead of shipping a
       | browser, uses Edge as a renderer (WebView2). Since that's
       | probably already cached in RAM anyway, it launches near instantly
       | and consumes much less RAM than the clunky edition that doesn't
       | share resources with anything else.
       | 
       | However, MS Teams for Business still does not exist in such an
       | edition although I assume they are working on it.
        
         | tehbeard wrote:
         | > But at least the performance should get better some day.
         | Microsoft has now made the "personal" edition of Teams that is
         | shipping with Windows 11 into one that instead of shipping a
         | browser, uses Edge as a renderer (WebView2)
         | 
         | That's not shipping an entire browser. That's shipping an
         | entire bloody OS! (edge is still stupidly deeply integrated,
         | and I'd bet there's still old ie MSHTML gubbins in there for
         | the enterprise crowd to cling to.)
        
         | Analemma_ wrote:
         | "It's slow because it's Electron" is a lousy excuse: Discord is
         | an Electron app with more or less the same purpose and it's
         | perfectly snappy. Hell, Microsoft's own VSCode is considered
         | the gold standard of how to do Electron apps well. It's fast as
         | shit, assuming you're not opening huge files. It baffles me
         | that the Teams org isn't begging the VSCode org for some of
         | their performance mojo.
        
           | brimble wrote:
           | Discord's slow and heavy and glitches or crashes constantly.
           | My group of friends landed on it for some activities over the
           | pandemic, because most of the other options were on-balance
           | worse for what we needed, but it's heavy and not high-
           | quality.
        
             | tehbeard wrote:
             | ... Ok I have to know what else is running on your PC
             | because aside from needing to kick it once or twice when
             | there was a major outage to get back in, it's been smooth.
        
           | sirwhinesalot wrote:
           | I wouldn't call Discord snappy, not even close, Telegram is
           | way snappier for example... But Teams is certainly on another
           | league (for the worse).
           | 
           | VSCode isn't that snappy either but it's decent enough. If
           | every Electron app was like that "It's slow because it's
           | Electron" wouldn't be such a meme.
        
             | musicale wrote:
             | VSCode is clunky but almost usable. I like that it's
             | multiplatform, free, and relatively capable, but I dislike
             | its clunky and very non-snappy user experience.
             | 
             | VSCode really needs better competition than clunky Java
             | IDEs from the likes of JetBrains or Eclipse or platform-
             | specific native IDEs like Xcode.
        
               | sirwhinesalot wrote:
               | Xcode is abysmal, I would honestly feel sorry for Apple
               | devs if not for how much money they make. Last time I
               | used it even autocompletion was broken (it would write
               | the text 1 character ahead).
               | 
               | But yeah there's clearly room for a snappier LSP-based
               | editor, preferably one with a toolbar.
        
           | iqanq wrote:
           | Discord is snappy? Is this the level of desktop applications
           | in 2022? :P
        
             | [deleted]
        
       | JJMcJ wrote:
       | Everything MSFT produces seems terribly slow.
       | 
       | Windows design issues?
       | 
       | Coding standards incentivize slow code?
       | 
       | Something I'm missing completely?
        
       | 0xbadc0de5 wrote:
       | Most likely because the Teams developing it are either not
       | competent or not empowered to improve it. Probably some
       | combination of the two.
       | 
       | I've used it daily for years and it's never been a good
       | experience - desktop, mobile, web (FF, Chrome, Brave)... they are
       | all trash. Although as others have pointed out, it has gotten
       | noticeably worse over the last year.
        
       | apostle36 wrote:
       | Jitsi is the best. Open source and free but all the dinosaurs use
       | teams because it belongs to micro$oft. I installed it today
       | because a client is using it and surprise: it works only with
       | Google Chrome and Edge! No Firefox, no Brave.
        
         | netizen-936824 wrote:
         | Since when does teams not work on Firefox? I've been using team
         | running in Firefox for ages
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | I think GP was talking about jitsi, not teams. I used teams
           | in Brave just today, can confirm it works.
        
           | GuB-42 wrote:
           | Last time I tried, voice calls were unsupported.
        
       | Tade0 wrote:
       | The other day, while trying to build a docker image from inside a
       | VM running Ubuntu(temporary setup due to issues with getting a
       | Docker Desktop license), I had a moment to pause and reflect on
       | how no matter how fast hardware becomes, humanity always manages
       | to make it slow.
       | 
       | The reason for this is related to the way development of browser-
       | based applications (be it Electron apps or just web apps) is
       | scaled.
       | 
       | In order to make 20+ people work on such a project effectively
       | you need loose coupling, so the codebase is divided into those
       | small, independent modules - each making its own API calls.
       | 
       | And herein lies the crux of the issue. Chrome/Chromium/Electron
       | etc. currently have a hard limit of 6 HTTP requests being
       | processed at any given moment - the rest is queued(or "stalled").
       | 
       | Notice how weirdly slow is gmail to load? It's making a total of
       | 200+ requests. No matter the network bandwidth that's going to
       | take a while.
       | 
       | Same goes for banking apps, or any kind of back office
       | application.
       | 
       | As usual, in order to make development faster they're making the
       | app slower.
        
       | wooptoo wrote:
       | Teams is not meant to be good, friendly or performant. Teams is
       | meant to check boxes in executive meetings, and to beat the
       | competition's price when purchased in bulk.
        
         | mistrial9 wrote:
         | you forgot "spy on you"
        
           | g8oz wrote:
           | I assume you mean Viva Insights...I'm curious as to what
           | managers can see about your activities when that is enabled.
           | The euphemism is "Organisational productivity reporting".
        
       | atonse wrote:
       | I can't express how much I hate teams, and two years into a
       | remote work revolution, they honestly don't have any excuse.
       | 
       | My teams client is CONSTANTLY confused about this "work account
       | home account" garbage. Holy crap Batman it's a disaster.
       | 
       | Clicking on teams links causes my teams client to freeze up with
       | a blank screen sometimes for minutes. So I've been late to many
       | meetings because the Teams client just doesn't connect.
       | 
       | I'm yet to hear a SINGLE instance of someone using teams other
       | than "we already bought it" or "we have some strategic
       | partnership with MS, so we have to use it" - some BS that's
       | shoved down people's throats.
       | 
       | The multi-account stuff is something slack and discord got right
       | from day one. And years into it, MS still hasn't figured this
       | out. It's appalling how bad Teams is, years later.
       | 
       | Anytime I see a teams link in a calendar event, I groan loudly.
        
         | sideshowb wrote:
         | Aaaah yes you just reminded me I have similar issues switching
         | between teams in different organizations.
         | 
         | This thread is much needed therapy. Teams is truly awful on so
         | many levels.
        
         | JamesAdir wrote:
         | +1 for that. Recently in W10 MS is requiring to login with your
         | personal account only and not a work account to the apps store.
         | Can't get the logic behind that.
        
       | nanidin wrote:
       | MS Teams is slow because it is a loss leader that exists so that
       | decision makers can tick off the "company wide instant messaging
       | that meets regulatory data retention requirements" box in the
       | process of paying for an Office package.
       | 
       | No one is paying for Teams intentionally, so MS will not see any
       | return on investment in improvements (except for the eventual
       | retention problems that come up when people finally decide
       | they've had enough.)
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | I just use the Web version, it works good enough.
        
       | hbn wrote:
       | At my company, the developers are all on fairly powerful MacBook
       | Pros, and everyone else in the company has Windows laptops (I
       | think generally Surface devices)
       | 
       | For the developers, Teams works... as good as Teams can. So not
       | great, but it works most of the time (for me, anyway). For
       | everyone else though, I hear nothing but issues. Constantly
       | having to restart to make Teams work. And again, this is on
       | Surface devices, so Microsoft is making the app, the OS, and the
       | hardware!
       | 
       | Even aside from the performance, I just think Teams is laid out
       | horribly and it stifles communication. The redundancy between
       | chats, group chats, and Teams channels (which are like a message
       | board?) is just bizarre and constantly causes confusion. It's so
       | much worse than Slack (which we used to use, and I used at a
       | previous job) where all communication channels are listed along
       | the left side, and you didn't have to dig through menus and trees
       | of categorization to get to certain places to talk to your
       | coworkers. And since Teams channels are sectioned off behind
       | another screen from your chats (where you'll probably be most of
       | the time), the only way to be aware of when someone posts in one
       | of the channels is to turn on notifications for it. Which is very
       | annoying!
       | 
       | edit: oh also a recent update made it so when you paste a code
       | snippet into the plaintext editor thing (whatever it's called,
       | you activate it by typing 3 backticks), it strips all the
       | whitespace from the left, meaning you lose all the code
       | indentation. Just great
        
         | mxuribe wrote:
         | > ...The redundancy between chats, group chats, and Teams
         | channels (which are like a message board?) is just bizarre and
         | constantly causes confusion...
         | 
         | Oh yeah, I'm with you! I'll admit that Slack's UX and UI is not
         | my favorite either, but at least any challenges are in a single
         | dimension (not like Teams in multiple, challenging
         | dimensions)...Meanwhile Teams' is just awful. I mean, the Teams
         | "rooms" (I guess i call them "rooms" because its annoying to
         | call them "Teams Sites"?) almost exist like channels/rooms in
         | good ol' IRC...but then Teams has channels underneath Teams
         | Sites/rooms...?...Plus, if i want to chat with an indiviodual,
         | those live in the separate "Chat" area...Ugh! To the valid
         | point about slack, at least its all there on the left. I guess
         | i could sort of see if there was drastically different
         | functionality between Chats and Rooms/Sites...but i dont think
         | so. So, why then separate them? As much as i dislike Microsoft
         | as an organization overall (for their historic corporate
         | behavior), they often don't jhave the worse UX ideas...But for
         | Teams, ugh!
         | 
         | I'm gpoing to pivot a little to matrix, and specifically the
         | Element client...which is the most popular matrix web client.
         | I'm an admitted matrix fanboy, so clearly i'm biased...but even
         | Element has areas that are simpler for me to comprehend and
         | utilize...Also, Element in my mind is still waaaaay early in
         | its evolution, and still very much far from their UX being
         | topnotch. But even in Element's infancy is leaps abovew what
         | Teams is now after several years. I acknowledge that Teams
         | "does more" (like embedding Office software, etc.)...and of
         | course the underlying matrix protocol is NOT limited to
         | chat...But, wow, is Teams sucky.
        
           | easton wrote:
           | Teams is bad, but Element/Matrix is the only chat app I've
           | used in maybe 10 years (outside of SMS) where I miss
           | messages. I get a notification, want to read the entire
           | message, open the app and it isn't there. I'm 99% sure it
           | didn't get deleted, but I'll never know what it said. And
           | since iOS makes the notification go away when you tap it, I
           | can't even see what it was.
           | 
           | Discord should just sell a white label version or start a
           | subsidiary to sell to enterprise. Slack will probably get
           | smushed by Salesforce, and short of Satya Nadella's personal
           | laptop bursting into flames because of Teams, I doubt they'll
           | slim down the client.
        
             | _rutinerad wrote:
             | You can see previous notifications by swiping up on the
             | lock screen.
        
         | ashton314 wrote:
         | Teams is like the most developer-hostile piece of burning
         | rubbish that I have ever had the misfortune to have to use.
         | Sending little code snippets is such an important part of
         | development. If a company has mandated Teams for all
         | communications, you know they cannot be "developer friendly"--
         | some management level is making decisions about what the
         | engineers need.
         | 
         | While we're bashing Teams--why are their notifications some
         | awful custom window that doesn't respect your OS notification
         | settings?!??!
        
           | month13 wrote:
           | Teams at least is slightly better than Skype For Business,
           | which would hijack copy paste to put the sender's name and
           | for some reason insert zero-width characters between every
           | space.
        
         | sli wrote:
         | We used Teams at my last job. It was unpopular and we didn't
         | use it a whole lot since the building was small enough that we
         | could just... ya know, yell.
         | 
         | Then MS introduced that weird semi-forced threaded discussion
         | feature that make following conversations a nightmare and
         | nobody, not a single person in the whole company, sent a
         | message over Teams ever again. We kept running it to appear
         | online, but literally nobody _actually_ used it.
         | 
         | We did spend a fair amount of downtime talking about how much
         | we hated Teams, though. And Azure DevOps. More than one person
         | there considered it some of the worst software they've ever
         | used, and they're right. It was a horrendous mess or awful UX
         | (but tons and tons of charts for the managers to value far too
         | highly).
         | 
         | That was a year and a half ago or so, maybe it's better now.
         | But at the time, having switched to that from Gitlab, it was
         | atrocious and we avoided it as much as we could.
        
           | m8s wrote:
           | I first had the pleasure of using Teams in 2016 or 2017, I
           | forget exactly when, and at the time they didn't have
           | accessibility features. None. You couldn't even increase the
           | text size in the app. It was nigh unusable then. I left for a
           | different job and within a year, Teams again reared its ugly
           | head. I've thankfully moved on from that job too.
           | 
           | Whatever cost savings Teams affords, the difference is more
           | than lost in confusion, miscommunication, and frustration
           | across the workplace.
           | 
           | May I never have to use it again.
           | 
           | Interestingly, my team now uses Discord for communication and
           | we really love it.
        
         | kingosticks wrote:
         | The code formatting is so badly broken now. It simply cannot
         | have been tested. i just can't believe they want it to work
         | like that. i also really hate that copy and pasting into a chat
         | preserves the styling/formatting of the original. why would i
         | want that? and the search... oh the search!
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | Wait until you discover that copy and pasting from the chat
           | might introduce no-break Unicode spaces that looks like
           | spaces in most diff tools! I did the hard way.
        
         | EMM_386 wrote:
         | > The redundancy between chats, group chats, and Teams channels
         | (which are like a message board?) is just bizarre
         | 
         | It really is, why do I get notifications in chat sometimes and
         | not the Teams room that everyone is a part of?
         | 
         | Why are people referencing others in these chat channels when
         | that's what we discuss in the Teams channels?
         | 
         | And I'm a senior software engineer!
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | smcleod wrote:
       | MS Teams is honestly one of the worst pieces of software I've had
       | to use in my 17~ years in tech, it's slow, bloated (thanks in
       | part to Electron) and the UX is absolutely horrendous.
        
       | outworlder wrote:
       | M1-based Macs: runs flawlessly, UX considerations aside.
       | 
       | Older Intel Macs (where Zoom, Chime and Google Meet runs fine):
       | can't even share a screen. Turning off GPU accelerations may or
       | may not help.
        
         | ipython wrote:
         | Have they released an ARM native version of the client? I find
         | the web version superior on my M1 Mac since last I checked the
         | native client was intel only
        
         | kube-system wrote:
         | The only software that stresses my M1 more than Teams is when I
         | ran some benchmark software. I've had a couple crashes recently
         | too :(
        
       | obtino wrote:
       | Half the reason it's bad is because it uses SharePoint as the
       | back-end. Another awful product that Microsoft tries to sustain.
        
       | marknote wrote:
       | Similar experience on MacBook Pro m1. Sometimes it uses more than
       | 2g ram. Crazy.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | jguzmanjr wrote:
       | It's Microsoft. What else did you expect ?
        
         | aliswe wrote:
         | Some software is really nice though, their todo app for example
         | (im serious)
        
           | vymague wrote:
           | I guess the Wunderlist team is more competent than their
           | Teams one.
        
             | randomsearch wrote:
             | Yep they've managed to make a product that is only a little
             | bit worse than Wunderlist, after buying Wunderlist
        
           | outside1234 wrote:
           | What todo app? This one? https://to-do.office.com/tasks/today
        
       | spaetzleesser wrote:
       | I feel Teams is thrown together by a few interns that are trying
       | out Scrum to be "agile". Every few days a button moves to another
       | place or some weird bug is introduced. The latest is that the
       | left and right cursor keys stop working after a while. Makes me
       | wonder what they are doing to have such issues and not notice and
       | why isn't that fixed quickly? Search is basically useless. The
       | built-in wiki isn't searchable at all. It''s just all out
       | terrible.
       | 
       | The only thing that works well is calls, voice and video. I am
       | sure they have plans to destroy that too :-)
        
       | vnxli wrote:
       | the ironic thing with Teams is that the one thing on the label -
       | managing teams- is AWFUL. I'm sure company culture comes into
       | this, but for an app that sells itself on the idea that it makes
       | little teams for people to join, it's awful at letting you manage
       | the teams. i'm a member of like 80 some odd teams and maybe 3 of
       | them give updates. All the rest are silent.
       | 
       | it's a disaster. it's fine for voice/video calls, but it's slow
       | and not fun to use in the app on my dev machine (i7/32GB RAM)
        
       | rayiner wrote:
       | I strongly suspect Microsoft has trouble getting decent
       | developers to work on Office. There is no other explanation for
       | why their new stuff is such a regression from the old stuff. New
       | Outlook, for example, is a joke. It's a facelift of Oulook for
       | Mac and Windows, but for some reason doesn't have tasks, which
       | Outlook has had forever. Instead it opens up the web version of
       | MS Todo. New OneNote has been out for years and again has a
       | fraction of the features of Outlook 2016.
        
       | urbandw311er wrote:
       | MacOS or Windows?
        
       | matthall28 wrote:
       | I am upgrading from an 8GB M1 Macbook Air to a 16GB M1 Max
       | Macbook Pro just because Teams makes my laptop unusable
        
       | herbturbo wrote:
       | It is so cathartic to read this thread and know I am not alone in
       | my disdain for this garbage product. I also got force-updated to
       | the new and improved Outlook today which now looks much worse. I
       | love my job but I hate the infusion of Microsoft's mediocrity
       | into my life.
        
         | kzrdude wrote:
         | The only reason I liked teams was that I had to use "Skype for
         | Business" before it, and it was even more rubbish
        
           | sideshowb wrote:
           | That's yet another weird combination isn't it: teams, Skype,
           | Skype for business, 3 calling products from the same company
           | and still not compatible?
        
       | alkonaut wrote:
       | I have a few issues in teams (keyboard nav in input text, copy
       | paste some times failing, editing pre/code blocks stinks, images
       | not opening etc).
       | 
       | Performance feels perfectly acceptable. It's by no means snappy
       | but it's not something I wish the Teams devs should focus on
       | instead of other features and bug fixes.
       | 
       | I have never had it take more than a couple of seconds to start,
       | seen no crashes, find audio and video working 100% (at least as
       | good as zoom, for example).
       | 
       | You probably want to get a log of what takes time at startup (if
       | that's possible). That's not normal.
        
       | JamesAdir wrote:
       | I still can't figure out what MS want me to use. with office 365
       | I can get Teams, Yammer and Skype for business. Why not have one
       | product for like Zoom that clearly works out for consumers and
       | business a like.
        
       | anonymousiam wrote:
       | I doubt anyone would be using Teams if it had not been produced
       | by Microsoft. It has so many shortcomings that I know I will miss
       | some, but here's a gripe list anyway:
       | 
       | 1) Echo cancellation. This is a solved problem and pretty much
       | every other conferencing app does it right. Microsoft probably
       | rolled their own which is why it does not work right.
       | 
       | 2) I have Teams installed on my desktop, Android phone, and iPad.
       | (Unfortunately, my company wants us to use it.) Regardless of the
       | notification settings in the apps, if I was on the desktop but
       | switched my KVM away, my phone and iPad will not notify me of
       | incoming Teams calls, messages, etc.
       | 
       | 3) Editing a document using the collaborative environment is
       | painfully broken. Sometimes it will take many seconds to register
       | a keystroke (on a gigabit-class CONUS connection). Sometimes
       | edits will disappear completely, or sometimes just temporarily.
       | Change tracking doesn't work right. Google Docs had collaborative
       | editing perfected over 10 years ago.
       | 
       | 4) Moving files in/out of Teams "Folders" can be painfully slow.
       | 
       | 5) Interoperability between the desktop Teams app and
       | govcloud/non-govcloud users is hosed, but it seems to work fine
       | on phones and tablets. Desktop users must access meetings via
       | browser if their "home" Teams account govcloud flavor does not
       | match that of the meeting originator, but no such restrictions
       | exist on phones & tablets. WTF?
       | 
       | 6) The Linux desktop version of Teams does not operate with
       | govcloud at all.
       | 
       | 7) Depending on the platform, users cannot share their desktop
       | when using the browser-based version. Chrome actually supports
       | this better than Edge.
        
         | rightbyte wrote:
         | > 1) Echo cancellation. This is a solved problem and pretty
         | much every other conferencing app does it right. Microsoft
         | probably rolled their own which is why it does not work right.
         | 
         | I don't know if Teams is worse or not, but my take is that it
         | is impossible to do right for conversations since it introduces
         | too much lag. I sincerely prefer echoes. Old time phones worked
         | just fine and it felt like you stood next to the person you
         | were speaking too instead of speaking through some filter group
         | delay.
        
       | ardit33 wrote:
       | Microsoft doesn't pay their devs. that well, that's why. With
       | second rate engineers and designers, you are going to get second
       | rate products.
        
       | gnicholas wrote:
       | The Mac application has never worked well for me -- video fails
       | often. It is very reliable in one respect: every time I open it,
       | it installs itself in my Login Items, no matter how many times I
       | have previously removed it.
       | 
       | I now use the web app exclusively, both because it works better
       | (at all) and because it doesn't act like malware.
        
       | randomsearch wrote:
       | Had a call today. Shortly beforehand I realised it was on Teams
       | and immediately began closing down other apps on my laptop. I
       | paused for a moment and thought about how insane it was that i
       | was automatically freeing up resources to cope with Teams. It's
       | almost the only app that causes my fan to run. It must be so
       | frustrating for coders on that product, surely everyone wants to
       | craft something great.
        
       | austincheney wrote:
       | > I have a laptop with
       | 
       | Hardware will never solve for poorly written software by people
       | who don't know what they are doing. This isn't a technology
       | failure. It's a leadership failure.
        
       | aliswe wrote:
       | Its very annoying.
       | 
       | The SSO is so bad as well - the popup telling you to login
       | doesn't have a window title either, or lock to the teams window,
       | so it comes across as a completely anonymous prompt. Phishing
       | attack anyone?
       | 
       | Closing the login prompt only opens it again. I hope youre not
       | offline and on mobile - prompt will open, close, open, close,
       | tens of times per second.
       | 
       | And lets not forget the dark pattern of soft forcing me to login
       | on Windows with a Microsoft account after I successfully logged
       | in. Need to click that text link - the CTA and primary button
       | logs your machine in!
       | 
       | Start writing a message and then choose a message to reply to.
       | Voila, reply quote comes after the message.
       | 
       | Wysiwyg constantly gets formatting wrong, sometimes without
       | possibility to restore it by deleting text. Its like it gets
       | stuck in a table or wonky css or something.
       | 
       | Deletes newlines of pasted text.
       | 
       | Click a chat that you havent opened in a while and quickly start
       | typing while its loading. Your text will come out garbled as the
       | input gets selected and the text position marker reset to 0 after
       | finished loading the history.
       | 
       | Wanna send an image from slack, to teams? Well you will need to
       | either take a a screenshot or download it - Teams doesnt
       | understand the clipboard if you right click and copy the file.
       | 
       | Neither does copying an image from Teams paste into either Slack
       | or Paint. (99% sure on that last one)
       | 
       | Dont try calling someone when youre already being called on
       | mobile. The app wont let you call, but it fails to tell you that
       | someone is in fact calling you.
       | 
       | If you try sending a voice message when on a call, even when
       | muted, the app bugs out.
       | 
       | I guess theres more to report if only someone would seem to care
       | about the application.
        
       | sebow wrote:
       | Element, Jitsi, even Threema business... Hell even Telegram has
       | way more usable (and dare i say one of the best records in terms
       | of stability of cross-platform clients along the years).
       | 
       | Now i get why in a company environment one wouldn't use free
       | services from matrix/discord or telegram, but at the same time
       | there are self-hosted options or cloud ones that are relatively
       | cheap and still way better than MS/Zoom.A company choosing a
       | service because of promotional plans from big corporations is not
       | a good deal, it's a red flag.
        
         | tentacleuno wrote:
         | > ... Hell even Telegram
         | 
         | Telegram's UX blows Element out of the water for me. IME,
         | Element is slow, buggy, and most of the time just refuses to
         | launch telling me I'm "offline" (a quick peek at Developer
         | Tools shows it is connecting to the home-server fine). I always
         | groan when I have to open Element to do something. Telegram's
         | UX is amazing.
        
       | laughingpine wrote:
       | Not that this will help at all, but from my experience it really
       | seems like the product has degraded in quality over the last few
       | years.
       | 
       | Originally we only had a few folks using Teams, and the client
       | was pretty snappy and just seemed to work. Then over time more
       | features were added, and things started breaking.
       | 
       | For example:
       | 
       | On my desktop client, images will not load when clicked unless
       | you back out of a conversation then come back in and click the
       | image. This is not something I experience on the web client. Also
       | on the desktop client, I cannot for the life of me do formatting
       | any more. Bullet or numbered lists are out!
       | 
       | The web client seems to work better for me, but will start to
       | chug near the end of the day, which requires a quick reload of
       | the app.
        
       | sirwhinesalot wrote:
       | One of the most awful pieces of software I've ever had the
       | displeasure to use. It's decent for calls, that's the only
       | positive I can name.
       | 
       | The chat experience is by far the worst I've ever had to deal
       | with:
       | 
       | - My sidebar is riddled with old meetings chats nobody cares
       | about anymore. Makes it hard to find actual important direct
       | conversations with people.
       | 
       | - The text editor is absolute jank, I've yet to figure out how to
       | get out of a quote after starting one, lists constantly glitch
       | out, it keeps "bold/italic" state like office but with no easy
       | way to remove it.
       | 
       | - Because it connects to sharepoint you get to enjoy all the
       | lovely permission bullshit when trying to share a simple freaking
       | file. Half the time I post a picture it glitches out for me and I
       | can no longer see it. Or I can see it but not if I make it
       | fullscreen.
       | 
       | Honestly the abysmal performance is just the cherry on top...
        
         | sideshowb wrote:
         | +1 there's no way to mark all chat as read is there. I dread
         | the day I miss an important message because it's hidden amid
         | junk I don't want to open.
        
         | wiredfool wrote:
         | I have an external monitor with USB audio, but no volume in
         | macos there because reasons. It's hooked up to a hardware amp
         | with a real hardware volume control. Every. Single. Teams. Call
         | has a dialog box saying I might not be able to hear because I'm
         | at 0 volume. And it comes back every single time the window
         | maximizes.
         | 
         | If I share a window on one screen, the teams call carefully
         | placed on the other monitor helpfully minimizes to a floating
         | window in front of what I'm trying to share. So then I have to
         | re-maximize because I sometimes like to see the reactions when
         | I'm sharing stuff.
         | 
         | One person I call, I can't. He has to call me back. Every Time.
         | 
         | It's not the worst video chat I've used. That's either skype or
         | any of the pre-facetime real-video things that never really
         | worked. But it's not good either.
        
         | calmoo wrote:
         | Teams was a not-insignificant reason for leaving my last
         | company. My day to day stress levels immediately plummeted
         | after going back to using Slack. People say Slack is terrible,
         | but I tell them go to use Teams and then come back to me. It is
         | by far the biggest dumpster fire software I've had the
         | displeasure of using. It's the only software that has made me
         | consistently angry. All of the issues you described I have
         | experienced. One of the most plaguing issues was actually
         | viewing new messages. When clicking a channel to view new
         | messages, 50% of the time the screen would be blank and I would
         | have to click away and back to render the chat.
        
           | sirwhinesalot wrote:
           | That blank screen issue has happened to me as well. The
           | pandemic massively increased how much I needed to interact
           | with Microsoft Teams, and let me tell you, it did not make me
           | happy. Not one bit. Perhaps it's a giant ploy by Microsoft to
           | try and get people to hate remote work.
           | 
           | How do you screw up a chat program this badly?
        
         | globular-toast wrote:
         | The chat is so bad people end up @ing the whole team _in the
         | team channel_ just to get people to see it. It fails at its
         | most basic purpose.
         | 
         | There are seemingly countless different ways to start a chat.
         | You could start a thread in a channel (or is it team?), or just
         | start a new channel/team, or invite people to a group chat.
         | There ends up being a forever growing list of
         | chats/rooms/whatever because people can't find the previous one
         | so just make a new one.
         | 
         | People are forever accidentally starting a new thread instead
         | of replying to the current thread. Most stupid UI ever. I find
         | 99% of the time people just want flat chat and find whatever
         | the easiest way to get that is.
         | 
         | And why the hell do you need to give me a top level
         | notification that won't go away when someone "reacts" to the
         | thing I've just said in the chat I'm still viewing?!
         | 
         | Oh, and the random breakages. It seems every other week they
         | break code pasting. Currently viewing images is broken for me.
         | I just have to keep retrying until on the tenth time it finally
         | works.
        
       | winkeltripel wrote:
       | Ex office dev here. Actual dev work is done on i9 workstations
       | running 64 gb of ram, and usually located very near an Azure data
       | center, regardless of where the dev works. The result is that
       | it's fast for us.
       | 
       | Everyone knows that it runs like poop, but there are other
       | priorities, and no performance regression tests.
        
       | roebk wrote:
       | What has been broken for months is viewing images. When I click
       | the thumbnail to enlarge it, the image viewer appears but the
       | image doesn't load. Rinse and repeat 3/4 times and I can
       | eventually see the image. Other members of my team experience the
       | problem. I cannot fathom why MS has not prioritised that bug fix.
       | 
       | One colleague who's on a modern desktop with an i7 and 32GB of
       | ram waits the upwards of 20 seconds to load a conversation.
       | 
       | In the past couple of years Teams has sores in popularity and
       | perhaps the dev work has been focused on scaling. It's clear to
       | me MS need to allocate some developer for getting the
       | fundamentals right.
        
       | INTPenis wrote:
       | Sounds like something is wrong with your setup.
       | 
       | I'm using the Teams Electron app on a Ryzen 5 with 16G RAM and
       | nvme disk, I can't complain about load times at least.
       | 
       | I just wish it had better bluetooth audio support and wayland
       | screen sharing on Linux. Some day maybe.
       | 
       | The most positive thing about Teams is that we finally have an
       | app that EVERYONE uses. From my co-workers, to vendors, to
       | clients. Monopoly is great when it allows me to connect with
       | people easily.
        
       | sawmurai wrote:
       | Teams is what made me turn in my windows notebook for a MacBook
       | at work. On Mac, it still hangs and is glitchy, but at least I
       | can switch chats in less than 2 seconds. And even while having a
       | call. Hell, I can even search in the chat history now!
        
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