[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to...
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       Ask HN: Why doesn't HN alert users in some manner to new replies?
        
       The last thing I found was this Show HN post from 2016
       (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11080539)
        
       Author : warrenm
       Score  : 172 points
       Date   : 2022-02-17 14:08 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
       | samatman wrote:
       | The only thing I'm personally missing from the current system is
       | a chance to find replies to older comments.
       | 
       | As an HN-ish proposal, how about a link on the user page for
       | replies, but only to comments which can't be downvoted (24 hours,
       | for those who might not know)? It could have a number next to it
       | and would surface replies from newest to oldest, but again, only
       | to comments outside of the downvote window.
       | 
       | This would allow some conversations of technical interest to play
       | out days or weeks later, which is of value to users who find
       | hacker news threads sometimes years after the topic was current.
       | 
       | This avoids the dopamine bump of active notifications completely,
       | and prevents tossing gasoline on flamewars, which only rage while
       | the antikarma button is active.
        
       | emptybottle wrote:
       | It would change the dynamics of the comment section a lot.
       | 
       | Instead of varied thoughts from many people in replies you'd be
       | much more likely to have the one person arguing their point
       | against replies which is terrible every time I see ot.
        
       | robomartin wrote:
       | TL;DR:
       | 
       | 9,000 notifications in 25 days!
       | 
       | Notifications are evil. Or, they can be...
       | 
       | Flo by Moen: I have received nearly 9,000 emails from Flo between
       | January 24th and today, February 17th. Yes, that is an average of
       | 360 emails per for 25 days.
       | 
       | Curious? Read on.
       | 
       | Our insurance company had us install a water leak sensor device
       | made by Moen called "Flo":
       | 
       | https://www.moen.com/search/smart+water
       | 
       | My opinion (and just my opinion) it's a piece of garbage, a waste
       | of time and money.
       | 
       | With that out of the way...
       | 
       | This thing alerts you when it detects various event. It's
       | supposed to be smart? Nah, actually, it's dumb as &*ck.
       | 
       | Example: One of my kids decided a 1.5 hour shower was a good
       | idea. Flo shutoff the water to the entire house at 90 minutes. If
       | this had been a broken pipe in the walls, running for 90 minutes,
       | well, the damage would easily be in the hundreds of thousands of
       | dollars. This is stupid. It protects nothing.
       | 
       | The only scenario where that would have had some value might be
       | if you go on vacation for a week and a water pipe breaks. OK,
       | well, I generally shutoff the water when we go on vacation, so
       | there is no value to this device.
       | 
       | One of the particular notifications has to do with water
       | pressure. Flo sends you an alarm to your phone (via their app)
       | and via email when it exceeds a certain value. We have always had
       | high water pressure. By always I mean, over twenty years. No
       | problems at all. I like this. High water pressure is useful. Flo
       | does not like it.
       | 
       | I probably get no less than ten notifications per day on the app
       | about water pressure. You can snooze them for 24 hours on the
       | app. So, I have to deal with these nonsense notifications every
       | single day. And I can't tell Flo "this is normal, forever, don't
       | bug me".
       | 
       | Email?
       | 
       | As I said at the top, about 360 emails per day, on average, for
       | high water pressure. I now have a collection of nearly 9,000 of
       | these email notifications received during the last 25 days.
       | 
       | Evil.
        
         | warrenm wrote:
         | I didn't say you should get 9000 emails in 25 days
         | 
         | I said there should be a way to see that you have replies to a
         | submission or comment so you know someone's looking for your
         | response
        
           | robomartin wrote:
           | This was not a reply to what you said. It is a real-life
           | example of how evil notification can be. Probably the most
           | extreme example I have ever seen.
           | 
           | As for your comment, I understand. I went 11 days before
           | posting the above reply. I was really busy with work.
           | Frankly, I appreciate that HN does not have notifications.
           | Most of what we all discuss in online forums, going back to
           | my days on USENET, isn't important enough to consume the
           | clock cycles. Notifications would just make us waste more
           | time.
           | 
           | Yes, I am calling most of it a waste of time. If I was
           | pressed to pick a number I would say that 1% to 5% might have
           | some value. This might sound harsh. Take it as one person's
           | opinion, which means it has little value and isn't at all
           | relevant to your own context.
        
       | andrew_ wrote:
       | One less dopamine hit that I can definitely live without. I also
       | feel it gives people less incentive to craft replies _for others_
       | and instead comment intelligently (yes, there are many replies
       | which are not that, but I have faith the majority are)
        
       | jlcoff wrote:
       | Because I suspect YC minimally maintain HN. Not specifically a
       | bad per-se, but don't expect anything new to happen.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | I work on the code every day! or at least if I don't, it's a
         | bad day.
         | 
         | There are a lot of changes, just mostly not visible, or only
         | subtly visible. That's on purpose, because (a) users hate
         | design changes and (b) pg-style minimalism is encoded into the
         | DNA and it would be a mistake to mess with that.
        
       | jimmyvalmer wrote:
       | Lots of sour grapes rationalizing.
       | 
       | Every deprived addict, from the grounded Minecraft player to the
       | imprisoned dope fiend, will tell you the deprivation was good for
       | him, but as soon he's given a shot at another fix, he'll
       | instantly take it.
       | 
       | I hate Slack's always-on nature. That I keep using it should tell
       | me how I really feel about it.
        
         | mmastrac wrote:
         | Both can be true. We can hate the things that addict us and
         | still be uncontrollably driven to them.
         | 
         | If I could guaranteed overpower all my subconscious drives by
         | choice I'd take that opportunity in a heartbeat.
        
           | jimmyvalmer wrote:
           | You can hate the guilt, but you can't hate the pleasure --
           | that wouldn't make any sense.
        
       | werber wrote:
       | That sounds horrible, I'm usually using hn while working, the
       | last thing I need is another distraction. I like intentionality
       | of the platform
        
       | jimmyvalmer wrote:
       | Automatic plug whenever I see this asked: nnhackernews.
        
         | gerikson wrote:
         | Thanks for the tip, I just installed (via MELPA), added it as a
         | secondary select method, and restarted Gnus. I can see the
         | "groups" show up, but when I try to enter them I get
         | 
         | > Symbol's value as variable is void: t1
         | 
         | Open an issue at https://github.com/dickmao/nnhackernews ?
        
       | deepsun wrote:
       | Try RSS, they have it for replies.
        
       | mdoms wrote:
       | HN barely holds together as it is. Despite the simplicity of it
       | the site undergoes frequent outages and performance degradations.
       | Long threads get paged in an absolutely insane way because of
       | performance problems and a fix has been underway for several
       | years according to the stock message dang leaves at the top of
       | such threads.
        
       | tpoacher wrote:
       | I don't mind the absence of notifications per se (in fact I think
       | it's a good thing).
       | 
       | But I do mind that there is no easy way (not even visually!) to
       | track "unread" replies, especially direct replies in older posts.
       | 
       | It does make me wonder how many chances I've missed at
       | stimulating conversation on a topic I was interested, whereas now
       | it just looks like I'm ghosting people.
       | 
       | I wouldn't mind "tagging" for instance (i.e. not all
       | notifications enabled by default, but the ability to be notified
       | when "tagged", e.g. via @username)
        
       | PStamatiou wrote:
       | HN had this functionality for a while some 10+ years ago. Our YC
       | startup Notifo had integration for HN reply pushes.
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1203104
        
       | wanda wrote:
       | Because it is a feature.
       | 
       | It is one of the last and most triumphant remnants of the era of
       | forums.
       | 
       | You log in when you want; you read things you want to read, when
       | you want to read them.
       | 
       | It is not a cult of personality revolving around _who_ replies to
       | what. The idea, the object is centre stage -- and that 's the way
       | it should be.
       | 
       | It is not a social network. It is a news aggregator where
       | comments add to, and revolve around, the links submitted and the
       | ideas they represent.
       | 
       | This is a place for exchanging knowledge.
       | 
       | There really aren't many places like HN around, and I treasure
       | it.
        
       | pvg wrote:
       | This has been addressed by dang before, one representative
       | pastequote from a recent (ish) comment:
       | 
       |  _Yes, I think we 'll continue to avoid the notification system,
       | not just because of flamewars but also because (relatedly) it's
       | not so compatible with curiosity. Push notifications seem to jack
       | up the nervous system in a way that's good for engagement but not
       | necessarily for users--we all experience this elsewhere on the
       | internet, and on HN we're in the blessed position of not needing
       | to juice the numbers._
       | 
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22937472
        
         | secondaryacct wrote:
         | Yeah as a reddit troll myself I enjoy the freedom of never
         | caring and pursuing flaming here... people like me get addicted
         | to the reaction and start writing only to trigger reactions.
         | Here at least I post constructively sometimes.
        
         | walrus01 wrote:
         | If you use traditional social media such as
         | facebook/instagram/twitter/etc on a mobile device, the best
         | thing you can possibly do in android 9 or later is to disable
         | _all_ forms of push notification for the entire app. Not just
         | in the app 's settings but at the operating system level.
         | 
         | Anything that would generate a notification requiring a swipe-
         | down from the top of the screen, or making a noise, seeing what
         | the notification is and either clicking on it or swiping it
         | away, disable that entirely.
         | 
         | I also allow exactly zero websites to send push notifications
         | via browser on my desktop/laptop workstation systems.
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | I very much appreciate this!
        
           | cft wrote:
           | Upvoted
        
         | quesera wrote:
         | Strongly agreed!
         | 
         | I think the requirement that at least two participants need to
         | make some effort to keep the conversation going, is _generally_
         | an extremely good thing.
         | 
         | For the very rare thread where I hope for a belated reply, I'll
         | keep a tab open and refresh it every day or two until I give up
         | or it expires.
        
           | divbzero wrote:
           | I agree strongly too.
           | 
           | Participants in a subthread might not even look again so
           | default action is _no reply_. This is a great feature because
           | it allows non-constructive subthreads to fade away with ease.
           | Notifications would change this whole dynamic.
        
         | BeefWellington wrote:
         | A take I agree with. I'm glad I'm not bombarded by dozens of
         | blinking status indicators every time I load up HN to see
         | what's interesting today.
        
         | giantg2 wrote:
         | I agree. My preference is not to have any reply notifications.
         | Most of the time the comments or article have aged out of view
         | within a day or two, and no new comments are being posted there
         | anyways.
         | 
         | If it is something _important_ and could be positive, you could
         | always try contacting the poster directly if they have an email
         | on their profile.
        
         | warrenm wrote:
         | That's incredibly disappointing :(
        
           | stronglikedan wrote:
           | Why? Most users don't want them. And for those that do,
           | there's https://www.hnreplies.com/, as well as other options
           | mentioned elsewhere here.
        
             | warrenm wrote:
             | That you have to use one of what ...a dozen[ish] options
             | I've seen posted today to get to what is a fundamentally
             | _standard_ part of every forum experience (except this one)
             | shows how out of touch the HN devs are, imo
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | They aren't out of touch, they understand the culture.
               | People here want Hacker News to feel like the last thirty
               | years of the web didn't happen. They don't want Hacker
               | News to be modern, least of all to be _like other
               | forums._ They want the Bohemian indulgence of 90 's era
               | web ugliness with complete disregard for standards, and
               | the ascetic purity of painfully minimalist UX that
               | appeals to their contrarian, anti-modern sensibilities.
        
               | pvg wrote:
               | The design is based directly on the design of several
               | (what we now call) 'Web 2.0' sites so the idea it's a sop
               | to the retro-hipster sensibilities of 90's-longing users
               | itself feels like a bit of an overwrought personal
               | indulgence.
        
             | ziggus wrote:
             | Agreed. In fact, I'd like to see HN go even further and
             | close discussions after some limit has been reached,
             | whether it's time- or attention-based.
        
         | motohagiography wrote:
         | It's a beautifully quiet design. If I want to check if someone
         | came back I can, and sometimes I don't have the energy to look.
         | The quality is the effect of all these little things, and not
         | something one could affect top down in another design.
         | 
         | I suspect there is a ton of sophisticated stuff going on behind
         | the scenes, but even if there were, the effect is still too
         | good to complain about.
        
           | JohnBooty wrote:
           | I suspect this too, but I suspect even more credit is due to
           | the dang and the moderators quietly doing tastefully heroic
           | work.
        
         | jzig wrote:
         | Then provide a daily or weekly digest. What's the point in
         | contributing to a black hole with no feedback?
        
           | LatteLazy wrote:
           | You can go and check your threads using the Thread link
           | above. If course I now realize this comment is sort of
           | redundant... :)
        
         | kodah wrote:
         | I really like the lack of push notifications. Sometimes I'll
         | make a reply during my morning coffee, do some work, then check
         | back in the afternoon to find hundreds of replies and deep
         | threaded discussion. The sense of pride I get from being able
         | to start a healthy thread without more participation is opposed
         | to the jacking of the nervous system dang is reflecting on. In
         | some way, it builds my confidence in this community.
        
           | Taylor_OD wrote:
           | Absolutely. And if I feel like it and I have time I can pop
           | back into that thread but I rarely find myself becoming
           | engaged with it more than once or twice. Unlike some websites
           | where I've gone back and forth for days with some moron about
           | which one of us is right. ;)
           | 
           | Not having notifications is great.
        
           | imdsm wrote:
           | I agree too. I am able to comment and add to a thread without
           | feeling like I have to then defend my opinion or go back and
           | answer replies. There's no responsibility, in a way, with
           | commenting. I can add an anecdote, or ask a rhetorical
           | question, or even crack a joke, and then move on with my
           | curiosity. It's a good system, and makes it feel very calm
           | here.
        
             | imiric wrote:
             | What makes a forum interesting IMO is the back and forth
             | discussion that sometimes happens, as long as it's
             | respectful and productive. If you don't occasionally check
             | and answer replies, you'd miss out on the chance of having
             | your opinion challenged and having to defend or amend it,
             | which is a good opportunity for growth. Otherwise it's akin
             | to throwing your thoughts into the well and walking away.
             | You might as well do that on Twitter and turn off
             | notifications.
             | 
             | I do think HN should have a simple notification system,
             | with a configurable period of up to, say, a week after
             | posting, and having the ability to mute threads. Just so
             | that you don't miss any initial discussion on new posts,
             | but without feeling overwhelmed or distracted by posts that
             | are no longer news.
        
               | pvg wrote:
               | You also "miss the opportunity" to engage in an endless,
               | repetitive non-constructive back-and-forth which is much
               | more common than a back-and-forth-of-personal-
               | intellectual-growth. It's hard to believe notifications
               | (rather than, say, deliberate personal interest and
               | effort) would help drive the latter while we know for a
               | fact they help generate a lot of the former.
        
               | imiric wrote:
               | > You also "miss the opportunity" to engage in an
               | endless, repetitive non-constructive back-and-forth which
               | is much more common than a back-and-forth-of-personal-
               | intellectual-growth.
               | 
               | On other forums maybe, but I haven't experienced much of
               | that here.
               | 
               | Regardless, this is clearly something _some_ users want,
               | so that we can avoid wasting time manually hunting for
               | new replies. For those who don't, it can be an optional
               | feature and they wouldn't have to use it.
        
               | JohnBooty wrote:
               | On other forums maybe, but I haven't experienced
               | much of that here.
               | 
               | I agree but surely this is attributable, at least in
               | part, to the lack of a notification system?
        
               | pvg wrote:
               | Sure but those users have the many options outlined in
               | this very thread. There's also 'threads' in the top
               | navbar which covers the basic use case reasonably well -
               | I'm just mentioning in case you or others missed it, like
               | I miss all sorts of weird cryptic HN features after 10+
               | years here.
        
               | kodah wrote:
               | "threads" is a simple notification system, imo. That's
               | how I follow up on discussions. It also naturally ages my
               | attention on topics. I'm not going to be responding to
               | three day old discussions that I've chosen in one way or
               | another to move on from.
        
           | FunnyLookinHat wrote:
           | I'm always pleasantly surprised to show up at the end of the
           | day, click through my posts, and see thoughtful replies. I
           | rarely have the time to back-and-forth in a thread - push
           | notifications would probably just discourage me from ever
           | posting. But... seeing some replies or upvotes for something
           | I wrote the previous day - that's always a nice "Hey - thanks
           | for sharing" that I don't feel compelled to reply to as the
           | day has already passed.
        
         | lolsal wrote:
         | I also appreciate this.
        
       | skilled wrote:
       | I'm pretty sure _upvoting_ a comment is seen as a means to notify
       | someone on HN. Maybe it 's only in my head but that's how I see
       | it.
        
         | warrenm wrote:
         | There's nothing in the HN UI that I've yet noticed that shows
         | when a comment is upvoted (or downvoted) beyond the fake
         | internet points counter next to my username
         | 
         | Up/down votes are irrelevant, though, in this context: if I've
         | asked a question, I shouldn't have to go _hunting_ to find out
         | if people replied (or if they 've asked something back, etc)
        
           | skilled wrote:
           | I don't write so many comments so I can always keep track of
           | everything. Also, HN creates contextual threads for comments,
           | the ones involving you, and I haven't had any bad UX to
           | report so far. The system in its current form _works_.
        
       | CyberRabbi wrote:
       | Long ago dang shared with me that reply chain length is
       | proportional to the tendency to violate the HN comment
       | guidelines. HN is passionate about high quality non-toxic
       | discussion.
        
       | greedo wrote:
       | You can use an RSS reader to monitor for replies. The URL would
       | be something like:
       | 
       | https://hnrss.org/replies?id=greedo
       | 
       | I'm not sure who maintains the site, but it helps me notice
       | replies to my comments. And since I only check it once a day or
       | so, I don't get too involved with flamewars.
        
       | jasonladuke0311 wrote:
       | Add me to the camp that is happy there are no notifications.
        
       | ilaksh wrote:
       | Its typical that everyone is defending the status quo. I doubt
       | the reason it doesn't have that feature is because they are
       | against it. I think it's just one of those things that adds a
       | significant amount of complexity without a ton of benefit for
       | most people. But I also think if they had several developers
       | working on the site, they would have done it.
       | 
       | You can just scan down recent threads to see if there are
       | replies.
       | 
       | But it's objectively a missing feature that could be somewhat
       | useful.
        
         | 1123581321 wrote:
         | I could be misremembering but think dang really is against it.
         | He's a philosophical guy about community management.
        
           | frosted-flakes wrote:
           | Then why did he make https://www.hnreplies.com/ ?
        
             | 1123581321 wrote:
             | That's Dan Grossman, a community member. dang is Daniel
             | Gackle and runs HN.
        
               | frosted-flakes wrote:
               | My mistake. I don't know what caused me to conflate them
               | to begin with.
        
               | 1123581321 wrote:
               | I actually did too, at one point. :) No idea why either.
        
               | mrtranscendence wrote:
               | They're both named Dan. Every Dan is a mere simulacrum of
               | the original Meta Dan. Your confusion is thus
               | understandable.
        
               | squeaky-clean wrote:
               | Dan G! The G is important, all gamma-class Dan's are
               | basically the same base model with some aesthetic
               | differences
        
       | pbreit wrote:
       | Because it would be a total nightmare.
        
         | warrenm wrote:
         | What makes you think that?
        
       | warning26 wrote:
       | Honestly I'm glad it doesn't.
       | 
       | Reply notifications may increase engagement, but I'd argue they
       | reduce the quality of discussion, since such notifications would
       | encourage rapid back and forth arguments.
        
         | wodenokoto wrote:
         | I believe this is also the official reason
        
           | masklinn wrote:
           | It mostly does the opposite because it means getting replies
           | quickly tapers off. After a few days the odds of keeping up a
           | discussion are low, and older discussions are baiscally
           | locked out forever.
        
             | criddell wrote:
             | Reducing back-and-forth discussions is a feature.
             | 
             | Look at any post that gets a significant number of comments
             | and then scroll to pick out the deepest threads. When the
             | depth comes from lots of people adding information or
             | opinions, the quality is generally pretty high. When the
             | depth comes from a small number of people going back-and-
             | forth, it's usually not very interesting.
             | 
             | Adding more of the latter type would make HN worse and
             | that's what you would get more of if they made HN work more
             | like Reddit.
        
         | barbazoo wrote:
         | I do agree with that. I wonder if it'd be better to show one's
         | threads as a chronological list as opposed to a tree.
        
         | pictur wrote:
         | this question is posted 2-3 times a month. and this answer is
         | written all the time. and it goes to the top. hn cycles
        
         | account42 wrote:
         | They could do delayed notifications. Not having them at all
         | sucks because you are pretty much guaranteed not to see replies
         | to older comments.
        
           | seanw444 wrote:
           | I just remember to check the comments in my profile page and
           | see how much my past comments have been replied to.
        
             | sgc wrote:
             | I used to do that, but you can just click "threads".
        
               | spyke112 wrote:
               | Mind blowing! I had not spotted that feature yet.
        
               | sgc wrote:
               | Honestly it's hilarious how much attention this is
               | getting. It's a link that took me several years to find.
               | It's the second link on the page. And a bunch of IT pros
               | are delighted to find it!
               | 
               | Ux is hard. Personally, I had clicked the "comments" link
               | and it was not what I was looking for, and then it took a
               | moment of curiosity several years later to try again. I
               | _think_ the moral of the story is, if you want something
               | to be discoverable, don 't hide it behind a less obvious
               | naming choice when the more obvious looking choice is
               | used nearby. But who knows.
        
               | PaulDavisThe1st wrote:
               | How does that differ from the "Comments" link in the user
               | profile page?
        
               | davidivadavid wrote:
               | It's 1 click vs. 2 clicks away.
        
               | seanw444 wrote:
               | Oh sweet. Thank you. Unfortunately that's not a thing in
               | my mobile client of choice, but handy for when I'm on
               | desktop.
        
               | csa wrote:
               | > Unfortunately that's not a thing in my mobile client of
               | choice, but handy for when I'm on desktop.
               | 
               | Threads are part of the HN home page header when logged
               | in.
               | 
               | How does your browsers disable this link? Does it disable
               | other header links as well?
        
               | seanw444 wrote:
               | I use Glider (from F-Droid) on mobile for browsing HN. On
               | desktop, I use the normal website. Thus, the link is
               | useful for me when on desktop. It's not a thing in
               | Glider.
        
           | gnicholas wrote:
           | I use the Threads link to see recent conversations. Replies
           | can only come in for two weeks (IIRC), and 99% of replies
           | happen within 24 hours, in my experience.
           | 
           | I'm less curious about late replies than I am about late
           | upvotes. Sometimes karma ticks upward and I can't figure out
           | what people liked. It'd be nice to be able to figure this out
           | -- does anyone know if any of the browser plugins offer such
           | a functionality?
        
           | topaz0 wrote:
           | Aren't comments closed after a couple weeks anyway?
        
             | dredmorbius wrote:
             | Yes.
        
           | mindcrime wrote:
           | _you are pretty much guaranteed not to see replieds to older
           | comments._
           | 
           | I consider this a feature, not a bug. IMO, it's good to let
           | older conversations just kinda "run out of steam" as
           | attention moves elsewhere. In my experience, extended
           | discussions here tend to be unproductive flame-war level
           | discussion. I don't see any value in making it easier to
           | sustain that.
        
             | loceng wrote:
             | Maybe a way then to flag a comment to watch for a response?
             | Sometimes I ask a question I'd love answered, or if someone
             | else responds to a conversation I think is important - I'd
             | be happy if they eventually replied.
        
               | ss108 wrote:
               | Yeah.
               | 
               | Like, I "owe" people a response here:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30310575#30310784
               | 
               | I am trying to put some degree of effort into the answer,
               | but it feels like they might not even see my responses to
               | their comments.
        
               | loceng wrote:
               | Only one of them has contact info in their profile - so
               | at least it'd get to them?
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/user?id=tomcam
               | 
               | They thought it'd make a good blog post too, so you can
               | repurpose it for that?
        
               | ss108 wrote:
               | Yeah, I just don't have a blog LOL
               | 
               | But I have been thinking about making one, maybe this can
               | kick it off. Would have to be anonymous until I
               | successfully make it back into tech.
        
             | account42 wrote:
             | > I consider this a feature, not a bug. IMO, it's good to
             | let older conversations just kinda "run out of steam" as
             | attention moves elsewhere.
             | 
             | That tends to happen even when there are notifications in
             | my experience - it only takes one participant to stop.
             | 
             | > In my experience, extended discussions here tend to be
             | unproductive flame-war level discussion.
             | 
             | As in here on HN? That can hardly be due to notifications
             | since there are none. I'm also not looking for extended
             | discussion, just being able to see if someone has something
             | to add to an old comment of mine.
        
               | ben_w wrote:
               | > As in here on HN? That can hardly be due to
               | notifications since there are none.
               | 
               | I've certainly felt that was happening here a few times.
               | I'm glad the "threads" list is so short, because I'm not
               | immune to the siren call of https://xkcd.com/386 even
               | though my better self wishes I were.
        
               | mindcrime wrote:
               | _As in here on HN? That can hardly be due to
               | notifications since there are none._
               | 
               | I'm saying notifications would exacerbate those
               | situations, which is why it's good that HN doesn't have
               | that facility.
        
             | tayo42 wrote:
             | Im not sure i agree with that. old forums used to have
             | interesting threads that would go on for a while and in
             | depth. One thing I dont like about this, idk what this is
             | called, new generation of message board?, is that past 3 or
             | 4 comments deep everything dies and past like 12 hours
             | commenting dies. it actually feels a lot more shallow
        
               | mindcrime wrote:
               | I suspect that may be a result of those boards being more
               | specifically focused on a particular topic. But, that's
               | just a hunch, not something I can prove.
        
             | passivate wrote:
             | There are many times I don't reply to a comment that is
             | multiple days old simply because nobody is going to read
             | it.
             | 
             | In my experience, the "hot takes" are often low quality
             | comments. Quality comments take time and thought, and HN
             | isn't conducive for that.
        
               | robbiep wrote:
               | I've replied to multiple days old comments and been
               | replied to in turn. I think when you do this you're not
               | performing for an audience but responding to another
               | person or couple of people individually. The fact not
               | many people are going to see it should be irrelevant - is
               | a piece of art (or a notebook doodle) not worth doing
               | because it has an audience of one?
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | This is one of my own frustrations with HN. The issue
               | isn't quite as bad as on other discussion sites, but
               | generally, conversations ... fade quickly. I'd like to
               | see _some_ kind of mechanism which works against this
               | tendency.
               | 
               | That said, notifications of themselves ... probably
               | aren't that. Though there might be ways to tweak the
               | mechanic to induce this.
               | 
               | Google+ had a Notifications dynamic that seemed to work
               | well in this effect, though it was somewhat specific to
               | how that site was structured:
               | 
               | - Notifications were for specific discussions.
               | 
               | - Disucssions were hosted by a specific user.
               | 
               | - The Notification went out to all (recent-ish)
               | participants in the discussion.
               | 
               | - Discussion hosts could moderate the thread. This was a
               | two-edged sword, but tended to reduce spam and flamebait
               | when used well.
               | 
               | - The Notifications Pane itself wasn't merely a
               | "something happened" nag, but a site element where new
               | comments could be directly responded to.
               | 
               | - Discussion threads were flat, with most-recent comments
               | appearing at the bottom of the thread. I'd at first
               | missed the threaded style, but came to appreciate a flat
               | disucssion which didn't descend into long separated
               | exchanges (frequently flamefests), and for which each
               | subsequent response was an equal contribution to the
               | thread.
               | 
               | - Total thread length was limited to 500 replies.
               | 
               | It's not the same as a topical or open-discussion formum,
               | as with HN. But as a conversation-fostering platform
               | _given the right host and participants_ it _could_ and
               | often _did_ work quite well.
               | 
               | A result was conversations _which evolved naturally_ over
               | days and weeks, sometimes months and years. Conversations
               | didn 't simply die.
        
               | fouc wrote:
               | I agree about the problem of quality conversations fading
               | too quickly.
               | 
               | Perhaps HN could add a /topconversations or
               | /yesterdayconversations link that only highlights the
               | best conversation threads from 24 hours ago. That way
               | attention on good discussions could be maintained for an
               | extra day.
        
               | detaro wrote:
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/front ?
        
               | fouc wrote:
               | I meant "conversations" and not posts. Kinda like
               | https://news.ycombinator.com/bestcomments but highlight
               | the ones that have the best overall cluster of comments
               | in a continuous thread
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | That's useful, and it's often a good way to browse the
               | site --- after a day, assessments on what's significant
               | tend to settle out.
               | 
               | That said, it still won't highlight conversations which
               | have come back to life.
        
         | loa_in_ wrote:
         | I'm more interested in replies to replies to my comments anyway
         | most of the time.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mFixman wrote:
         | The problem is that old discussions become effectively
         | invisible.
         | 
         | If I reply to a post or comment that's over several days old
         | there's almost no chance the author will ever see it.
        
           | modeless wrote:
           | HN is not for directly communicating with single people. HN
           | is for conversations with a large community. By commenting
           | you can discover and/or influence the collective opinions of
           | a large number of people. But that only works while the
           | community's attention is on a discussion. Once the community
           | moves on, there's no point in continuing a discussion here.
           | 
           | Move 1:1 conversations to another service. Many people put
           | contact information in their profiles, and others can often
           | be found with a little searching. I've had a few people
           | contact me about HN conversations over email and twitter and
           | it's been a generally positive experience. Maybe HN should do
           | more to encourage people to include contact information in
           | their profiles so that this can happen more often.
        
           | InCityDreams wrote:
           | As an ccasional replier, that's a plus for me. If I am
           | interested in the past, I can go look (and I have done), and
           | then reply. Look forward to reading your reply....perhaps in
           | a couple of months.
        
           | mindcrime wrote:
           | _If I reply to a post or comment that 's over several days
           | old there's almost no chance the author will ever see it._
           | 
           | That is a Good Thing.
        
             | warrenm wrote:
             | No, it's not
             | 
             | If you ask a question, and I happen to see it a couple days
             | later and can answer it, why would you _not_ want to see
             | said answer?
        
               | scythe wrote:
               | If I actually still need an answer to the question, I'll
               | be checking my threads. Otherwise, I'd prefer not to be
               | interrupted by someone's nitpicking a point I made about
               | wastewater management three days ago or something; it's
               | unnecessary stress. I find reddit's reply notifications
               | to be a stressful anti-feature, and they're a primary
               | reason that reddit is IP-blocked on my work laptop while
               | HN is not.
        
               | mindcrime wrote:
               | An edge case like that isn't really the point. I mean,
               | what percentage of "responses to old comments" fall into
               | that bucket? My guess is that it's a very small
               | percentage. Weighed against the "propagating /
               | encouraging low-value flame wars" possibility, I
               | absolutely consider the lack of such notifications to a
               | Good Thing.
               | 
               | Especially considering somebody who's _particularly_
               | motivated to find delayed answers to specific questions
               | can always bookmark the particular comment and check it
               | manually, or just occasionally scroll-back through the
               | "threads" page or whatever. If they're not motivated
               | enough to do that, then maybe the discussion wasn't that
               | important to begin with.
        
               | warrenm wrote:
               | This isn't an "edge case"
               | 
               | This is the _normal_ case for commenting :: if someone
               | replies, it shouldn 't be difficult to find that out
        
               | squeaky-clean wrote:
               | Because conversations have lifespans. If I want to see
               | said answer I can visit my profile and check. But I don't
               | want the website constantly pestering me "someone
               | responded to that thing you said a week ago!"
               | 
               | If I'm still curious of the answer a few days later I can
               | check my profile a few days later
        
               | dredmorbius wrote:
               | Some conversations have long lifespans.
               | 
               | Philosophers have been answering, or at least asking, the
               | same questions for centuries and millennia. Technical and
               | scientific questions can span years or decades. Political
               | and social ones, decades and centuries.
               | 
               | No, it's not necessary to drag all of past discourse into
               | each individual conversation. But neither is it
               | reasonable to demand that _all_ discussions die within a
               | few hours, or a day at the outside, on the most perfect
               | text-based global communications platform ever developed.
        
               | Lvl999Noob wrote:
               | Why not make subscribing to a thread manual? You can
               | subscribe to a thread of you think it is important. The
               | subscription will last for 3-4 days or maybe a week.
               | Someone will probably make a client that automatically
               | subscribes you to your comments. But that will probably
               | be a vanishingly small number of users. And flame wars
               | would require both sides of the war to have their
               | subscription on. The notifications themselves can be
               | delayed too, so you can either manually follow it to stay
               | fully up to date or deal with a few minutes or hours of
               | delays.
               | 
               | Basically too inconvenient for a troll, but usable for
               | most probably productive purposes.
        
       | fwsgonzo wrote:
       | I wish it had something like a reply counter. I understand that
       | creating and maintaining a notification system is not ideal. But
       | if there is a counter for the number of replies I've gotten, and
       | the number is larger than yesterday, then I know I have to check
       | my comment history.
        
       | Santosh83 wrote:
       | This is my biggest beef with HN, along with the presence of
       | up/downvote buttons.
        
       | foolinaround wrote:
       | i think this feature is needed. Often times, an insightful reply
       | to a question is asked (others want to see it too) but the OP
       | just may not have noticed it.
       | 
       | so, maybe 8 hours later, if there is no response from OP for a
       | reply made, a notification is sent? OP may choose to ignore of
       | course.
        
       | onion2k wrote:
       | One of the really good things about HN is the Algolia integration
       | so building things like a notifier relatively easy. The structure
       | of the data means you can do a lot. The HTML of the pages is old-
       | school enough that rewriting it with a browser plugin is
       | straightforward too. HN is "hackable" in the classic sense of the
       | word. You can build your own things on top of it.
       | 
       | It doesn't need extra features if they just read data and do
       | things when stuff changes - you can do that yourself.
        
         | warrenm wrote:
         | >You can build your own things on top of it. It doesn't need
         | extra features if they just read data and do things when stuff
         | changes - you can do that yourself.
         | 
         | I'm sure I "could" do that myself - but why waste my time when
         | it's something so incredibly trivial to add to the site so
         | _everyone_ benefits?
         | 
         | Intentionally breaking the pattern of internet fora by
         | withholding this feature seems ...
        
           | onion2k wrote:
           | _Intentionally breaking the pattern of internet fora by
           | withholding this feature seems_
           | 
           | Saying that the HN devs are "withholding" a feature implies
           | that you think you're entitled to their development time, QA
           | time, support, etc. You aren't.
        
       | ww520 wrote:
       | Please don't add notification for replies. It will ruin the site.
       | It will have a lot more garbage replies when people are compelled
       | to reply due to gamification. It will make moderation more
       | difficult. Not worth it.
        
       | g42gregory wrote:
       | I am very grateful that HN does not have alert notifications. It
       | sets it clearly apart from the social networks and positions it
       | as a useful tool to learn information.
        
       | rgoulter wrote:
       | I do think "upvoted old comments" would be worth notifying about
       | after some cooling duration.
       | 
       | I'll sometimes see I got upvoted, and I'll notice it wasn't one
       | of my recent comments (since my recent comments will all be 1
       | karma).
       | 
       | If the feedback loop between knowing a comment was upvoted is
       | short, sure, that encourages trying to get upvotes (rather than
       | trying to make good discussion). But I think it'd be good to see
       | what old comments I wrote people thought were worth upvoting.
        
         | warrenm wrote:
         | I don't so much care about something being upvoted (it's all
         | fake internet points anyway), but knowing when someone comments
         | back would be quite valuable
        
       | giuliomagnifico wrote:
       | I'm using HACK app, that send you push notifications for reply:
       | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/hack-for-hacker-news-developer...
        
       | gandalfian wrote:
       | And how to sort comments by date order so you can easily see
       | what's been posted new since you last read a topic.
        
       | donohoe wrote:
       | I am not sure I would want this by default.
       | 
       | I would like an opt-in setting where if I made a top-level
       | comment I get notified if any of the following are true:
       | 
       | - My Comment is upvoted 5 times and I get a Reply. - A Reply to
       | my Comment on it is upvoted 5 times. - I receive more than 3
       | Replies.
        
       | u801e wrote:
       | Being able to distinguish new replies from existing replies in a
       | comment thread is something that would be useful. On Reddit, you
       | can get that if you're a moderator or have a gold subscription.
       | 
       | News and email clients would highlight new messages you just
       | downloaded. What would be nice is if Hackernews would do
       | something similar. For example, using the e tag header to decide
       | which comments are rendered differently so that it's easy to see
       | that they're new comments since the page was last viewed.
        
       | civilized wrote:
       | I love that they don't change anything. Social media services
       | like Reddit that change things eventually change into shit.
        
         | shafyy wrote:
         | Last night I had a dream that HN had a new UI. Time to spend
         | less time on HN.
        
           | dang wrote:
           | What did it look like?
        
             | pvg wrote:
             | Mildly related but your love of 'illusion' like here
             | 
             | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30367395
             | 
             | makes me think of this (possibly too glamorous) video of
             | how I imagine HN moderation goes:
             | 
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uY4cVhXxW64
        
         | lolinder wrote:
         | They don't change nothing, but they're _very_ careful when they
         | introduce a change. Most are so subtle you wouldn 't notice,
         | and that's the point.
         | 
         | Some in recent memory I can think of:
         | 
         | * prev/next/parent links
         | 
         | * Show HN can now have both a text body and a link (they used
         | to only have a link and you had to submit a reply with your
         | explanation)
        
           | krapp wrote:
           | >Most are so subtle you wouldn't notice, and that's the
           | point.
           | 
           | That can't be the point. There's no reason to introduce new
           | features with the expectation that no one will ever notice or
           | use them. Honestly, I think this forum cargo-cults its
           | "minimalist" aesthetic far too much.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | civilized wrote:
             | Obviously GP comment is saying you don't notice because the
             | changes integrate so well into the existing system, not
             | saying it's desirable for users to literally not notice the
             | features. Otherwise the maintainers of HN are morons
             | introducing features that no one will use.
             | 
             | Honestly... nitpicking comments with some dumb hyper-
             | literal interpretation to find something tiny and pointless
             | to disagree about is an aspect of HN I could do without.
        
               | krapp wrote:
               | > Obviously he's saying you don't notice because the
               | changes integrate so well into the existing system.
               | 
               | Yes, to the point that people literally never notice
               | them, which is (or should be considered) a problem.
               | People still complain that HN lacks thread folding, even
               | though the feature's been deployed for months. They don't
               | see the links or never bother clicking them. People have
               | been here for years and never noticed the site has a
               | footer with links to other features.
               | 
               | That's not a feature of elegant integration, it's the
               | fault of a purposely obscurant layout.
               | 
               | >Nitpicking comments to find something tiny and pointless
               | to disagree about is an aspect of HN I could do without.
               | 
               | As is the assumption that all criticism of HN and its
               | features is pointless nitpicking. Be less defensive.
        
               | bryanrasmussen wrote:
               | > People still complain that HN lacks thread folding,
               | even though the feature's been deployed for months.
               | 
               | how many people complain versus how many complained
               | before the feature was introduced? That some people don't
               | notice a change means not so much.
        
           | ycombinete wrote:
           | I'm constantly tapping these prev/next links while browsing
           | on my phone, when I try to tap the collapse [-].
        
           | Cd00d wrote:
           | Lol - I never noticed the parent/prev/next links.
           | 
           | That parent one is super useful! Sometimes I go too deep in a
           | discussion and realize I don't want to be there but can't
           | find my way back easily by eyeballing the indent depth of the
           | comments.
           | 
           | Thanks for the lesson!
        
           | masklinn wrote:
           | > Most are so subtle you wouldn't notice
           | 
           | I certainly notice every time I fat finger these useless
           | links.
        
             | ggambetta wrote:
             | I find them very useful. Whenever I've gone deep enough in
             | a comment thread, I use the "parent" link to navigate to
             | its root, and then I either collapse it or use the "next"
             | link to read the next thread.
        
       | warrenm wrote:
       | case in point: I asked this question ~1 hour ago, it's garnered
       | (as of this comment) 78 comments, and yet I had to go _hunting_
       | for it when I got back to HN
        
         | scythe wrote:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=warrenm
         | 
         | The link is not in the topbar but it's easy to find in your
         | profile.
        
           | warrenm wrote:
           | thanks for proving my point: I had to go hunting for this
           | submission just to see if anyone had replied/answered
           | 
           | And no one has (as of 1133 EST 17-Feb-2022) provided a real
           | answer for why HN has such an obvious feature missing :)
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | pHollda wrote:
             | It's the same reason dang needs to manually tell people
             | about 'more' in long threads, or repost previous discussion
             | of the same topic. That was the initial design and no one
             | wants to make new changes because of an absurd idealization
             | of that design.
             | 
             | No one wants to rethink old decisions made a long time ago
             | and genuinely wonder if things need to change. Hence people
             | come up with bullshit defences.
        
               | dang wrote:
               | 'more' links for long threads wasn't HN's initial design.
               | It's a performance workaround and therefore bs in its own
               | right. I'm slowly making progress on a reimplementation
               | of Arc, which will hopefully allow this to go away.
        
             | scythe wrote:
             | >And no one has (as of 1133 EST 17-Feb-2022) provided a
             | real answer for why HN has such an obvious feature missing
             | :)
             | 
             | This kind of reply is exactly the reason I'm glad that HN
             | does not have reply notifications. At least a dozen people
             | have clearly explained that they prefer HN _without_ reply
             | notifications, but you 're here offering a troll-ish claim
             | of "no real answer" with a correspondingly sarcastic
             | emoticon.
        
               | warrenm wrote:
               | If HN functioned like a _normal_ internet forum, ie it
               | had reply notifications, then if /when someone actually
               | posted why HN has intentionally decided to break the
               | pattern would've popped up as something findable
               | 
               | But no one had (as of when I commented)
        
       | solarmist wrote:
       | I agree with the reasoning not to have notifications mentioned
       | here.
       | 
       | However, a related request would be an easy way to identify new
       | comments on a conversation thread when you're on the threads
       | page. Is that something that can be done?
       | 
       | If I have an active day on HN it can be difficult to determine
       | which comments I've read and won't reply to from new comments I'd
       | like to reply to.
        
       | jb1991 wrote:
       | there's this: https://www.hnreplies.com I understand it is built
       | by an HN moderator, actually, so somewhat endorsed.
        
         | samanator wrote:
         | Thank you for posting this. Signed up!
        
         | ashtuchkin wrote:
         | Amazing how simple it is! Kudos to the author, subscribed.
        
         | consumer451 wrote:
         | also this chrome extension was mentioned 10 months ago:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26590720
        
           | pvg wrote:
           | that thing steals your session cookie without much asking or
           | explaining
        
             | consumer451 wrote:
             | Ooof, sorry for posting it then. Would delete or edit if I
             | could.
        
               | pvg wrote:
               | I don't there's anything deliberately evil about it, it
               | just happens to be effectively credentials harvesting -
               | your auth cookie ends up on someone else's server. If
               | they get compromised, all those HN accounts get
               | compromised. Some people might be ok with that risk, if
               | aware of it.
        
         | kevincox wrote:
         | I use hnreplies and quite like it. Another option is
         | https://hnrss.github.io/#reply-feeds which gives you a feed of
         | replies to a user (quite possibly yourself). The RSS option is
         | of course more flexible because you can do whatever you want
         | with the feed but I just read my RSS via email anyways so I
         | just use hnreplies. IIUC it is also faster because it is
         | polling for everyone quite frequently whereas individually
         | polling the RSS feed I would probably do it at a lower
         | interval.
        
         | tptacek wrote:
         | I believe Dan Gackle is the only public HN moderator, and that
         | this isn't really endorsed.
        
           | jb1991 wrote:
           | and I believe that Dan created the site in question, which is
           | sorta an endorsement of sorts:
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27555072
        
             | tptacek wrote:
             | Different Dan.
        
           | OJFord wrote:
           | And Scott 'sctb' Bell. Don't think he comments as much though
           | (at least, that I notice/in threads I read). (Oh or
           | actually.. not active since 2019? Maybe you're right.)
        
             | Tomte wrote:
             | Scott left some time ago.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | It was built by a different Dan G. but I'm happy to somewhat
         | endorse it.
        
       | golergka wrote:
       | I did a telegram bot for this at some point, but it ended up very
       | annoying and I just abandoned the project. Code is here if you
       | want it: https://github.com/golergka/hn-comment-bot
        
       | Brajeshwar wrote:
       | Like the other comments, I also feel that would be a bad idea. I
       | have seen, like, two of my submissions hitting the home page. I
       | then jump in and start commenting. It is all over the place and I
       | would NOT want any notifications for that frenzy.
       | 
       | Most of the times, I just quietly read the comments and try to
       | converse where it makes sense -- either I'm getting something or
       | giving something in return.
        
       | GeorgeTirebiter wrote:
       | If alerts were an optional feature of HN, I would use them.
        
       | bjelkeman-again wrote:
       | I just click on the Threads to see what happened to something I
       | wrote. I like that it is minimalist. I think it invites a more
       | considered approach to what I write.
        
       | kgwxd wrote:
       | I used https://hnrss.github.io/ for a while. I worked really well
       | but I eventually realized I didn't want it.
        
       | bitlax wrote:
       | There's an API. Go nuts.
        
       | MeneerFriet wrote:
       | Not exactly what you're asking but I made a Safari extension
       | (iOS/Mac) to highlights new comments:
       | https://apps.apple.com/us/app/hn-comments/id1602932281
       | 
       | A whopping 5 downloads so far. :p
        
         | sbayeta wrote:
         | I'm not on safari (or Mac), so I can't try it. But what I
         | usually do is collapse the comments I already read, and when I
         | check the thread later, I can distinguish new (or previously
         | unread) comments.
        
       | ravenstine wrote:
       | If I see my karma go up, that usually tells me that someone may
       | have replied to something I said. Otherwise, I'm glad there's no
       | alert for new replies. Conversation should be intentional. If I'm
       | gonna be reading what someone said in response to me, I better
       | already have enough motivation to check back and see if someone
       | replied. When I don't check back, it's probably because I've got
       | something more important to focus my attention on, and when I
       | reply to someone I assume there's only a small chance they'll
       | actually see it or reply back.
       | 
       | An extension to alert for replies to _recent_ comments
       | /submissions could be really easy to make, though. Just check
       | `/threads?id=` every few minutes, compare the content of the
       | previous page snapshot, and collect unique replies into a set.
        
         | ballenf wrote:
         | I use a custom style sheet to hide my karma score (except on
         | user profile page where I can go if I'm super curious). It's
         | broke an unhealthy cycle I would subconsciously try to craft
         | the perfect reply and get an addiction-inducing high from some
         | big karma boost. Or big productivity-killing negative response.
        
           | ravenstine wrote:
           | Yeah, I can imagine that'd be good for many people. I get no
           | thrill out of my karma. To me it's just a signal that
           | something I said got attention and that I might want to
           | quickly glance at my comments page in case there's an
           | opportunity to engage with someone. The number itself is
           | pretty meaningless and doesn't drive me to HN.
        
           | rootusrootus wrote:
           | This is a feature I would like to be built-in. Seeing the
           | karma score move makes me go look. It is an unhealthy
           | distraction for me.
           | 
           | I guess I should learn how to build that custom style sheet
           | myself. Unless you can share yours here? ;-)
        
           | BbzzbB wrote:
           | uBlock Origin filters are good for this. I also hide scores
           | on Reddit and likes on Twitter in an attempt to not be
           | influenced by what the mob thinks of comment X as well as the
           | reason you mentioned. Unfortunately, it is one click away to
           | un-hide so that second intent is mostly a failure, I end up
           | checking anyway.
        
           | exikyut wrote:
           | Same here! Down to a T. I actually think the consideration to
           | hide it came from the fact that everyone *else's* votes are
           | hidden.
           | 
           | Incidentally, rather than a custom style sheet to hide the
           | score, I have the entire top bar set to the karma color. This
           | means I cannot see any of the actual links, and I have to
           | _really_ squint at the screen and hunt for them. Long-tail
           | accessibility issues seem part of HN 's brand, or something
           | -\\_(tsu)_/-
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | I've had an ... interesting ... experience having made the
           | Leaders page, and at one point suggested to dang that the
           | feature might be removed.
           | 
           | I later heard from someone else who'd made the list and had
           | somewhat similar responses to it.
           | 
           | HN reduces gamification in most respects, but not all, and
           | even in the ones that remain the psychological impacts are
           | interesting.
           | 
           | Yesterday's Black Bar for example. It's a subtle note, but I
           | immediately knew what it meant (and that there would be
           | inevitable questions about its meaning).
        
           | karaterobot wrote:
           | Me too, as of a month or so ago. So far it has been an
           | improvement in my experience with HN. I wouldn't mind this
           | being a toggle on the configuration screen.
        
         | rootusrootus wrote:
         | I have thought for some time that votes should come in two
         | flavors. X if you make a comment, X/10 if you don't. Drive-by
         | voting is of little value, and for abusive posts that need
         | downvoting we have flagging to accomplish quick removal. Giving
         | more weight to people who write a reply would encourage more
         | conversation.
         | 
         | Of course, then there is a question of whether it would
         | encourage more _thoughtful_ comments or not, and I cannot
         | answer that.
        
           | dredmorbius wrote:
           | Collaborative filtering ... has issues. Most simple or
           | single-factor fixes don't address the larger problems.
           | 
           | Much of the time, it tends to amplify interesting, and
           | diminish nonproductive contributions. Spam, trolling,
           | clickbait, and vacuous responses seem to get quickly
           | downvoted and flagged on HN, which is good. Comment voting
           | has numerous other connotations, however.
           | 
           | - Simple and short expressions tend to be disproportionately
           | upvoted. They're easier to assess. _Sometimes_ they are
           | insightful, most often, only tapping a common sentiment.
           | 
           | - Controversial views tend to be downvoted. Sometimes
           | controversy is flamebait, sometimes it isn't. There's not
           | much distinction made between the two.
           | 
           | - Truth isn't a popularity contest. HN often, but not always,
           | avoids this trap. True expertise in complex topics is rare,
           | but at times necessary. An epistemic system should reflect
           | this to a greater extent (though also be aware of misuses of
           | such claims of expertise or authority).
           | 
           | - Topics strongly shaped by remunerative interests,
           | ideological alignments, and tribal allegiances tend to
           | perform most poorly under popular voting systems. There is a
           | List of Things HN Cannot Discuss, and most of these seem to
           | fall under this umbrella. Dang has voiced frustration with
           | this on occasion, and I've had numerous email discussions
           | with him about this ... more in the past than recently, I
           | think. HN is guided to an extent by its moderator team. It is
           | not directly steered by them. And the overall philosophy is
           | broader than critics of the principle current political
           | tribes seem to admit.
           | 
           | Collaborative filtering / the wisdom of crowds was all the
           | rage in the late 1990s / early 2000s. Whilst it has _some_
           | uses, there 's been an overreliance on it.
           | 
           | I'm not entirely sure how best to patch the system, though I
           | have some thoughts.
           | 
           | - Bounding ratings to a range rather than a simple sum seems
           | more useful.
           | 
           | - Weighting individual's ratings by their own assigned mean
           | similarly. If someone _always_ hands out 5s (on a 1--5
           | scale), then those are re-scaled to a median score. Rescaling
           | _ranges_ similarly: someone offering only 1s and 5s might see
           | that rescaled to 2  & 4 repectively.
           | 
           | - Factoring in expertise, or rescaling based on other factors
           | such as truth, tone, conciseness, accuracy, references, etc.,
           | _might_ help. Goodhart 's law applies. But sometimes, what
           | you want isn't the average opinion of the passengers, but a
           | competent pilot.
           | 
           | Another point is that HN doesn't aim _simply_ to be a place
           | where truth is sought, but a conversational platform.
           | Excessive strictness would probably diminish this.
        
           | warrenm wrote:
           | Social voting is broken - and probably shouldn't exist
           | (https://antipaucity.com/2015/09/16/like-problems-social-
           | voti...)
           | 
           | That said, I'm not asking for notifications on upvotes (like
           | Stack Overflow does)
           | 
           | I'm asking for the basic functionality of all internet fora
           | I've interacted with for the last close to 30 years that tell
           | you if you have any replies
        
             | ziggus wrote:
             | HN isn't a forum.
        
               | warrenm wrote:
               | ...says the person _replying_ to a comment ;)
        
               | ziggus wrote:
               | Allowing comments on a news aggregator doesn't mean it's
               | a forum. The fact that HN purposely doesn't have much of
               | the standard functionality of a forum should clue you in
               | to the fact that it isn't one.
        
         | csdvrx wrote:
         | > If I see my karma go up, that usually tells me that someone
         | may have replied to something I said.
         | 
         | Same, in my profile I ask to upvote if replying to start a
         | discussion. Simple and does the job of catching my attention.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | Because HN is a non profit thing that doesn't make money on
       | "engagement".
       | 
       | Seriously, you don't have enough interruptions?
       | 
       | If you really want to see if your comments have been replied to,
       | you can see that in the list of your comments.
        
         | klez wrote:
         | I don't think they're asking for notifications. Even just an
         | icon next to my profile name to indicate someone has responded
         | to a comment would be something. And make it opt-in since a lot
         | of people here seem to be happy with the status quo.
        
           | squeaky-clean wrote:
           | This is still a notification, even if it's not using the
           | browser notifications or mobile push notifications.
        
             | klez wrote:
             | > Seriously, you don't have enough interruptions?
             | 
             | I was responding to this. That kind of notification won't
             | interrupt me like, say, my phone vibrating or a desktop
             | notification.
        
           | warrenm wrote:
           | Or an ability to sort my comments/submissions by most-recent
           | comment/reply
        
       | betwixthewires wrote:
       | I think its a fantastic UX decision. If you care about a
       | discussion you're having you'll check your replies. Telling you
       | someone replied to you encourages lazy responses.
        
       | AndrewDucker wrote:
       | I get mine from https://hnnotify.xyz/ - seems to work well.
       | 
       | I agree that it would be nice for HN to manage this directly.
        
         | enobrev wrote:
         | I've also been using https://hnnotify.xyz/
         | 
         | Works great
        
         | hooande wrote:
         | great app, thanks! glad that a skilled hacker could solve this
         | problem
        
       | smoldesu wrote:
       | This has probably already been brought up in this thread, but you
       | can track responses to your replies via the unofficial HN API.
        
       | tzs wrote:
       | OT: how come links in HN text submissions are sometimes clickable
       | and sometimes not?
       | 
       | Example of an HN text submission where links are clickable:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30345201
        
         | dang wrote:
         | The default is not, as explained in the FAQ:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html. But we turn them on
         | whenever we see a case that isn't abusive. I don't know of a
         | way to automate that.
        
       | einarvollset wrote:
       | For the same reason PG proposed turning HN off "during office
       | hours" several years back
        
       | bannedbybros wrote:
        
       | WithinReason wrote:
       | It's a filter, and it works very well. If you're tech savvy you
       | can figure it out for yourself, if you're not then what are you
       | doing on HN?
       | 
       | Here is your latest reply RSS feed:
       | https://hnrss.org/replies?id=warrenm
        
         | pbbbt wrote:
         | There are people from different types of technical (or not!)
         | backgrounds in all stages of their careers here. Your litmus
         | test for who is correctly "on HN" seems unnecessarily
         | exclusionary. I'm not sure if you meant it to come across like
         | that.
        
           | WithinReason wrote:
           | It probably did come out wrong. The point is that those
           | people need to have enough motivation to stay and put up with
           | the difficulty of using the site. This might seem counter-
           | intuitive, but I'm convinced the quality of discussions can
           | be proportional to the user hostility of the website :). See
           | Reddit, Facebook, etc.
           | 
           | An automated mechanism of getting instant replies would
           | create flame wars much more easily too.
        
         | warrenm wrote:
         | So ... now I need to use an _external_ tool for something that
         | 's intentionally-lacking on the main site?
         | 
         | no thanks :)
        
           | WithinReason wrote:
           | No problem :) As I said in a parallel reply, people not
           | knowing when they get a response improves the discussion
           | quality here.
        
             | warrenm wrote:
             | _In your opinion_ not knowing when a response occurs
             | improves  "discussion quality"
             | 
             | Objectively, it _reduces_ the opportunity for  "discussion"
             | - since you don't know someone is actually _having_ a
             | "discussion" (or trying to have one) with you
             | 
             | Whether that correlates to better or worse "quality" is
             | _highly_ debatable :)
        
               | cirrus3 wrote:
               | From replies, it seems that most people prefer it that
               | way, so I wouldn't say it is _highly_ debatable. It
               | appears to be different from your preference and that's
               | about all.
        
       | mettamage wrote:
       | I feel with HN. If you want specific behavior, program for it.
       | When you're done, preferably don't publish the code, so that it
       | can easily take the extra few requests that you're making ;-)
        
       | mxstbr wrote:
       | I've been using this Chrome extension for a while and it's worked
       | really well for me:
       | https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/hacker-news-notifi...
       | 
       | They recently tweeted
       | 
       | > In the last 30 days, Hacker News users sent out 337,875
       | comments, responding to 29,258 users.
       | 
       | https://twitter.com/magicbell_io/status/1488441548857561095
        
         | CyberShadow wrote:
         | This extension is closed-source and its code is obfuscated. It
         | also phones home according to the Firefox permissions. I'm not
         | sure I would trust it.
         | 
         | Edit: more information in the HN announcement:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26590720
        
       | booleandilemma wrote:
       | Why doesn't HN do a lot of things? HN tries to be minimalistic,
       | and a lot of people are happy with that (me included).
        
       | phatbyte wrote:
       | No thanks.
        
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       (page generated 2022-02-17 23:02 UTC)