[HN Gopher] Google Release Chrome OS Flex
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Google Release Chrome OS Flex
        
       Author : BoumTAC
       Score  : 127 points
       Date   : 2022-02-15 18:46 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (chromeenterprise.google)
 (TXT) w3m dump (chromeenterprise.google)
        
       | jdlyga wrote:
       | The only computer I might need to use this on is my 2017
       | Chromebook that's now out of support and can't be updated :(
        
       | tomComb wrote:
       | Glad to see that this is pure web: will not include support for
       | android apps.
       | 
       | Kind of ironic that Microsoft is going to the step of taking
       | googles android and hacking it onto windows, while Google is not
       | adding android to (this version of) their OS. Not exactly sure
       | what the irony is actually, but it's in there somewhere.
        
         | daveidol wrote:
         | Microsoft adding Android to Windows seems almost like a
         | reaction to Apple adding support for iOS apps on macOS ARM.
         | That way if iOS apps end up becoming a smash hit on Mac,
         | Windows can keep pace.
        
         | bduerst wrote:
         | Doesn't Android-enabled Chrome OS require containers to run
         | properly?
         | 
         | I seem to remember there being a pretty high bar (for
         | Chromebooks anyway) of hardware requirements to be able to run
         | android on Chrome OS machines. Even my shitty burner chromebook
         | struggled to run the beta in dev mode.
         | 
         | Given that this is targeted at repurposing even _older_
         | hardware, including Android would probably be creating
         | performance issues.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | Yes it does, here is the Google IO talk
           | 
           | https://youtu.be/pRlh8LX4kQI
        
         | ewired wrote:
         | I think this is gonna be used for school lab computers, like my
         | high school's hand-me-down OptiPlexes from the local state
         | university. Students will only need access to e-learning sites.
         | Android app support would open up a lot of malware or viddy
         | gaming during prescribed pretending-to-watch-course-videos
         | time.
        
       | dvh wrote:
       | How long till it's cancelled? 6 months?
        
       | inlined wrote:
       | Am I the only person who's vaguely interested but won't try this
       | until it supports dual boot?
        
         | longstation wrote:
         | Or running it in a VM?
        
       | ben1040 wrote:
       | This sounds like the continuation of Neverware, which they
       | acquired at the end of 2020.
       | 
       | https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2020/12/google-acquired-neve...
        
         | kyrra wrote:
         | Googler, opinions are my own.
         | 
         | I believe this is exactly what it is.
        
       | cercatrova wrote:
       | Reminds me of https://www.mightyapp.com/ which streams Chrome to
       | your desktop.
        
       | throwawayHN378 wrote:
       | Ok but it doesn't let me download anything
        
         | notyourday wrote:
         | This is how to get it:
         | 
         | https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11541904?hl=e...
        
       | notyourday wrote:
       | This is a much more interesting technical summary:
       | 
       | https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11547280?hl=e...
        
         | binkHN wrote:
         | Very helpful--thanks--goes into a lot of detail regarding Flex
         | versus CloudReady.
        
       | babypuncher wrote:
       | I am struggling to think of a reason why I would want to run
       | Chrome OS instead of macOS, Windows, or Linux. Then again, I've
       | never understood the appeal of Chromebooks to begin with.
        
       | seltzered_ wrote:
       | Bizarrely reminds of a decade ago when HP's Open webOS was
       | intended to ship on PCs:
       | 
       | - https://www.engadget.com/2011-03-09-webos-will-on-every-hp-p...
       | 
       | - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sS3Vk821w8
        
       | jsight wrote:
       | The annoying thing is that they can do this, but they won't offer
       | some sort of extended support for old chromebooks. It seems like
       | they could at least keep the user layer up to date and ship
       | patches for critical vulnerabilities.
        
         | nmstoker wrote:
         | That was my first thought too.
         | 
         | They charge in like heroes to extend the life of laptops with
         | other company's operating systems and yet the four year old
         | Chromebook that perfectly suits my parents' limited performance
         | needs is being abandoned even though it's still fully
         | functional.
        
         | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
         | For bonus points: I'm trying to figure out if this will work
         | _on Chromebooks_. So you flash a coreboot+tianocore build
         | (mrchromebox is a popular prebuilt option) to convert your EOL
         | chromebook to a normal UEFI laptop... and then install Chrome
         | OS Flex, and get a supported Chrome OS device again? I can 't
         | see any reason it wouldn't work...
        
           | kingcharles wrote:
           | What CPUs does Flex support though? This would be great to
           | recover EOL Chromebooks. There are literally millions of them
           | out there that are dead now, but would perform perfectly with
           | Flex.
        
           | onion2k wrote:
           | If you try it and it's good this would be worth doing a Show
           | HN post for.
        
         | livinglist wrote:
         | that's how google does things, I won't be surprised.
        
         | vero2 wrote:
         | Blame intel for not updating older devices...
        
           | mh- wrote:
           | What updates could they need from Intel to keep the
           | OS/userspace up to date?
        
             | jeffbee wrote:
             | "up to date" implies that fixes are being identified,
             | developed, and distributed. If your wifi card has some
             | flaw, and intel fixes it, and google distributes the fix
             | then your device is "up to date". If you don't care about
             | this property then you also don't care that a Chromebook
             | only gets updates for 7 years. It is, after all, not going
             | to just switch itself off at the end of the support term.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | madjam002 wrote:
       | Seriously considering trying this with some of my family members.
       | Windows 10 is such a user hostile OS especially to non-techie
       | people that every time I look at their PC their documents have
       | moved to some new OneDrive location or Edge has reinstalled
       | itself.
        
         | johnx5c wrote:
         | > Windows 10 is such a user hostile OS
         | 
         | That's a bit ironic. Microsoft is only trying desperately to do
         | what Google has already succeeded at with ChromeOS - an OS with
         | no browser choice designed solely to funnel user data to them
         | for data mining and to promote their own services. At least
         | Google are up front about it while Microsoft is trying to dark-
         | pattern their way to the same position.
        
           | binkHN wrote:
           | I think the problem here is expectations--with Windows, you
           | know you're getting a heavyweight legacy OS with backwards
           | compatibility for everything. With Chrome OS, you have few
           | expectations and assume it's largely "just for browsing the
           | web."
        
         | pinephoneguy wrote:
        
         | r00fus wrote:
         | I tried chromebooks a while back and while the cost factor was
         | significantly in favor of them, they fall down in a lot of
         | areas.
         | 
         | With Apple Silicon 2020 MBAs they seem to support everything,
         | are significantly faster/quieter/long battery and with
         | discounts are reasonably priced - I'm recommending those for
         | family and so far everyone has loved theirs.
         | 
         | I expect the hardware to last a long time - much like the 2010
         | MBA which lasted my dad 7+ years.
        
           | Dma54rhs wrote:
           | The target market for Chromebooks is as far as it can get for
           | the privileged who can buy their kids and close ones latest
           | macbooks, it's like suggesting some sort of sportscar instead
           | of wolkswagen saying with good financing they are not that
           | expensive to keep up.
        
         | brimble wrote:
         | My dad picked one (edit: a Chromebook, that is) up a couple
         | years ago, which I thought was great because most of their
         | market is kids and old people (isn't it?) so it'd surely have
         | great accessibility features, and as you note Windows has been
         | getting more and more hostile since at least Win10 (which
         | tricked one of my uncles into paying for OneDrive without even
         | knowing what it was ["something I need to use the computer, I
         | think?"], leaving him confused about where files were going).
         | 
         | Nope. Dunno if ChromeOS is subpar, or if Apple's just so far
         | ahead that it's spoiled me, but Chrome OS' accessibility
         | settings seemed pretty poor, and some of what they did have
         | didn't work very well.
        
       | iddan wrote:
       | Finally! I remember installing Chromium OS on my netbook back in
       | 2011 and I always felt like a supported build from Google has so
       | much opportunity to renovate old computers
        
         | throwaway932489 wrote:
         | Good timing given Windows 11 dropping support for all sorts of
         | hardware
        
         | notyourday wrote:
         | I have a previous generation Chromebox that I use for video
         | conferencing. It is absolutely infuriating that a modern
         | ChromeOS does not work on it not because the specs are out of
         | date but because Google just does not allow it.
         | 
         | It has a supported CPU, a supported wifi, a supported USB and a
         | supported bluetooth a supported disk and a supported amount of
         | memory. But it is out of ChromeOS support window.
        
           | wffurr wrote:
           | Disable write protect on the firmware and install Flex or a
           | Linux distro. Wish they'd automatically unlock the firmware
           | on devices that fall out of the support window.
        
             | jsight wrote:
             | Have there been any howtos for installing Flex? It does
             | seem like that'd be a possibility, and it'd be a great way
             | to extend the update window if it worked.
        
             | notyourday wrote:
             | I'm going to try Flex. I don't want Linux on it. It is just
             | a video conferencing box. I want it to be a total
             | appliance.
             | 
             | P.S. I just checked - not a single Chromebook/Chromebox are
             | listed on a supported devices list.
        
       | zinekeller wrote:
       | > Reduce e-waste and extend the life of your existing devices by
       | transforming them with a modern OS.
       | 
       | Flies in the face of many functional Chromebooks/Chromeboxens
       | losing support
       | (https://support.google.com/chrome/a/answer/6220366). Extend the
       | support lifetimes of _your first-party hardware_ and I 'll
       | believe you, Google. Unfortunately, you have definitely burnt
       | many bridges over this.
        
         | notacoward wrote:
         | Couldn't agree more. My 2015 Chromebook Pixel was EOLed not too
         | long ago. Microsoft will still support Windows on older
         | machines than that. If Google wants to go all white-knight
         | about preventing e-waste then supporting their _own_ older
         | machines is the first thing to do. Otherwise it looks like just
         | greenwashing as a tactic to convert Windows /MacOS hardware to
         | their own OS.
        
         | ignoramous wrote:
         | > _Today, the OS is in early access and you may experience some
         | instability._
         | 
         | Tomorrow the OS is EOL and you may experience deja vu:
         | https://killedbygoogle.com/
         | 
         | Jk, they won't surely?
        
           | geofft wrote:
           | Google is a business - they are neither a kindly old wizard
           | doing things for the good of the people, nor are they a game
           | show wheel, randomly picking a product to kill today.
           | 
           | You can pretty accurately model what they will and won't do
           | with this one unusual insight that they're a business.
           | 
           | For instance: are they going to kill Chrome? No, Chrome has
           | given them market dominance as well as a seat at the table to
           | _define_ web standards, improving and shaping the web
           | platform both to be a more appealing product to developers
           | and users, so that they can make more money when they stick
           | ads on it, and to more easily support sticking ads on it. Or,
           | briefly, Chrome - though it 's not a paid product per se -
           | makes them huge amounts of money.
           | 
           | What about (from that website) Google Currents? It's the
           | rebranded, corporate-only version of Google+. Its biggest
           | user was almost certainly Google itself, and it was a venue
           | for employee activism and therefore was a threat to corporate
           | profit. Briefly, though it was a paid product, they had few
           | paying users and it cost them money.
           | 
           | A sibling comment mentions the end of legacy free G Suite
           | (formerly GAFYD) accounts for very small users. This was, by
           | definition, a thing that didn't make them money and a thing
           | that was hardly an on-ramp for subscriptions that did make
           | them money. Again, you could predict this.
           | 
           | So what abut Chrome OS Flex? It remains to be seen - it's not
           | as clearly worthwhile as Chrome or even Chrome OS itself. But
           | Google does absolutely make money on Chrome OS Enterprise,
           | which this product is clearly linked with. It's nowhere in
           | the same boat as things they provided out of the kindness of
           | their corporate-personhood heart like legacy free G Suite or
           | Google Reader.
           | 
           | It might end up being a failed experiment, certainly. But
           | "It's a Google product" is a weak signal about whether it's
           | going to get killed, and there are many stronger signals. Let
           | me know when they kill Ads and Cloud.
        
           | qwertox wrote:
           | Lately with the G Suite announcement it has felt more like a
           | massacre. Who cares about Google Currents shutting down, when
           | we have already learned not to touch new Google products like
           | Duo, Hangouts, Meet or whatever they are named.
        
           | squarefoot wrote:
           | Translation: lots of cheap 2nd hand Chromebooks/boxes to
           | unlock and flash with an open OS.
           | 
           | https://mrchromebox.tech/
        
         | vero2 wrote:
         | most chromebooks got up to 6 years support. BTW, one can still
         | use these old ones, they will get LaCros (where only browser
         | gets updated).
         | 
         | > Flies in the face of many functional Chromebooks/Chromeboxens
         | losing support
         | 
         | On these old hardware you can install Linux or even cloudready.
         | Are you expecting support forever?
        
           | eeeficus wrote:
           | No, of course not! Let's throw away perfectly good computers.
           | Yes I know that you can use Linux but I expect that if I'm
           | buying a chromebook, I like the OS as well?
        
             | HelixEndeavor wrote:
             | The whole premise of the Chromebook and reason for its
             | market share is the simplicity to average users. Most of
             | what we do is web browser-focused. So cut out the fat and
             | have a computer that's all about the web browser.
             | 
             | The proposition of installing Linux on these machines once
             | they're EOL flies in the face of the reasons most users buy
             | them, and won't at all address the core issue.
        
           | notacoward wrote:
           | > Are you expecting support forever?
           | 
           | How about as long as Microsoft? Or Red Hat? Why the hell not?
        
           | _Algernon_ wrote:
           | I used my last laptop for 10 years. If you _actually_ want to
           | "Reduce e-waste and extend the life of your existing
           | devices", install a Linux distro with a light DE (e.g i3 or
           | xfce).
        
           | jethro_tell wrote:
           | I'd like support until I decide to be done with it.
           | 
           | With a Linux base, it seems like releasing the drivers to
           | mainline and supplying browser updates ought to take care of
           | that. I don't really understand what else would need to go
           | into that so maybe I'm missing something but especially for
           | x86 boxes it should be pretty simple.
        
           | arianvanp wrote:
           | That is what I'm expecting because that is what the
           | competition they're trying to protect from ewaste with this
           | weird product is already basically offering. My last laptop
           | I've used for 10 years. A good gaming desktop will stay
           | relevant for at least 10 years. Microsoft will support it for
           | longer than that
        
           | yjftsjthsd-h wrote:
           | > Are you expecting support forever?
           | 
           | I mean... maybe? Why not? At worst, drop to a second tier of
           | support where firmware might not get updated and new features
           | that actually need new hardware don't work, but why should
           | chromebook hardware stop working any more than any other PC?
           | Most of my machines are 5-10 year old machines that Linux
           | happily supports; why should Chrome OS - built on _top_ of
           | Linux - support any less?
        
       | notyourday wrote:
       | I see Google still has not realized that they should list the
       | devices it supports in the announcement...
        
         | sahaskatta wrote:
         | Here's the list:
         | https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11513094?hl=e...
        
         | CraneWorm wrote:
         | it boots from a usb stick and seems web only so it should run
         | anywhere you can run chrome browser; I suppose?
        
           | protomyth wrote:
           | Well, drivers are still important since it is an OS and not a
           | layer on top of the installed OS.
           | 
           |  _STEP 2_
           | 
           |  _When you're ready, install Chrome OS Flex on your PC or Mac
           | to replace your operating system._
        
       | turbinerneiter wrote:
       | Can one use Firefox on ChromeOS?
        
         | pa7ch wrote:
         | Yes but it runs through a linux VM so it won't get quite native
         | speed and reduce your battery life. It seamlessly installs as
         | an app you can just open though which is a slick feature of
         | crostini.
        
       | encryptluks2 wrote:
       | If this won't support Android apps, it won't get mass adoption.
        
         | vorpalhex wrote:
         | They could add that in later. Honestly stuff like this is a
         | great solution for older parents or young kids who really do
         | just need internet browsing.
        
       | smallerfish wrote:
       | I hope they've spun up a support organization to back this. Their
       | list of "supported" hardware is pretty thin right now. Are they
       | really planning to scale this to all models?
       | 
       | https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11513094#zipp...
        
         | 0x0 wrote:
         | Yeah I don't see "MacBookPro18,2" there despite the landing
         | page claiming this OS will work on devices I already own.
        
       | jsnell wrote:
       | Creating the installation media via a Chrome Extension sure is a
       | wonky process.
       | 
       | First try: can't actually do it from Linux Chrome, has to be
       | Windows/Mac/Chromebook.
       | 
       | Second try, on Windows: Extension downloads the image. Windows
       | asks if I want to allow Chrome to make system changes. Then
       | Chrome crashes.
       | 
       | Third try, on the same machine: The exact same image is
       | downloaded again. Writing the USB stick finally works.
       | 
       | The extension is able to write raw data to a USB device, which
       | seems like rather privileged hardware access. But there is
       | nothing in the permissions section of the extension suggesting
       | there is anything special about it. That seems really strange.
       | 
       | (It was just creating the image that was odd. Once that was done,
       | everything was smooth on a Windows 8-era Samsung laptop.)
        
         | SirGiggles wrote:
         | Perhaps WebUSB? I recall that flashing Google Android images
         | was possible directly from the browser
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | I wonder if you could have just written the image with Etcher.
        
       | reaperducer wrote:
       | How is this different than the old thin client craze from
       | 20-something years ago?
        
         | hughrr wrote:
         | Well it's 50000% less shit than Citrix for a start.
        
         | jeffbee wrote:
         | Thin client was not "a craze" it was industry bread and butter
         | for decades. It was and maybe still can be considered IBM's
         | core business. Sun sold hundreds of thousands of seats of the
         | Sun Ray.
         | 
         | In case your question was serious, a device with ChromeOS is
         | just a Linux box with as powerful a processor, as much memory,
         | and as much storage as you care to supply. There's nothing
         | "thin" about it.
        
       | candiddevmike wrote:
       | I can't find anymore information about the VDI plug in the
       | workplace section, anyone have a link? Is Google getting into the
       | cloud VDI business, or is it "Chrome os can use VDI tools"
       | handwaving?
        
       | machinerychorus wrote:
       | Microsoft used to bundle a browser with their OS, now Google is
       | bundling an OS with their browser. Time is a flat circle.
        
       | eugenekolo wrote:
       | Will this version, like regular ChromeOS support a Linux
       | Subsystem (Crostini)?
       | 
       | I've recently played a bit with a Chromebook I have for work,
       | best I can describe it is as "ok". It's kind of fun to be able to
       | write emails, or journal/blog in Google Docs. I really can't see
       | how I would recommend it to anybody really with just that
       | ability. Even non-tech people like to download the occasional
       | program, and not everything is on the web. The Chromebook is able
       | to run Android apps which makes it slightly more useable (Looks
       | like ChromeOS Flex cannot?).
       | 
       | The ability to run Crostini makes it more developer friendly. I
       | was able to set up Android Studio, Python, Gcc, and it's a fairly
       | decent on-the-go dev machine... I don't live such a nomadic
       | lifestyle, but I can see it being pretty fun if you do.
        
         | banana_giraffe wrote:
         | The answer to that is "maybe" (
         | https://support.google.com/chromeosflex/answer/11542901?hl=e...
         | ):
         | 
         | > Support for Linux development environment on Chrome OS Flex
         | varies, depending on the specific model. Review the Certified
         | models list to check if your models support Linux on Chrome OS
         | Flex.
         | 
         | The link on that page to the list of supported hardware doesn't
         | actually show which machines support Linux.
        
       | darklion wrote:
       | Chrome is notable for being a memory hog; older devices, almost
       | by definition, do not come with modern amounts of memory. I
       | wonder what the performance is going to be like.
       | 
       | Also, I question how well optimized Chrome OS can be for PC
       | substrates. It's one thing to run Chrome OS on a device built
       | around what Chrome OS supports; Chromebooks are essentially the
       | Mac hardware model: limited hardware that is known to be
       | compatible with the software running on it.
       | 
       | In the wild, though, PCs have a mind-boggling array of different
       | hardware; I wonder how well Chrome OS is going to adapt to that
       | Wild West.
        
         | jklinger410 wrote:
         | Don't they just use the linux kernel for hardware?
        
           | simonmales wrote:
           | I wonder how this will help get drivers mainlined.
           | 
           | And if OEMs will start offering Chrome OS Flex devices off
           | the shelf.
        
         | jsight wrote:
         | Chromebooks often come with ~4GB and run pretty well. I think
         | they are just relying on Linux having relatively broad hardware
         | support along with proprietary drivers for the most common
         | video chipsets. I doubt it will be exceptionally hard, given
         | that Chrome OS tends to have relatively limited support for
         | peripherals anyway. Its not like they have to support high
         | performance 3d gaming.
        
         | bduerst wrote:
         | >Chrome is notable for being a memory hog
         | 
         | This meme comes from a misunderstanding of how desktop memory
         | works. Chrome will use as much available RAM as you can give it
         | in order to improve web performance, but it doesn't actually
         | require that much to run.
        
           | redwall_hp wrote:
           | And...modern web cruft is a memory hog. Chrome's built in
           | task manager shows the tab I'm writing this comment in as
           | using a reasonable 50MB of memory. Meanwhile, I have a couple
           | of YouTube tabs that are over 200MB each.
           | 
           | The problem is the world doesn't hold web developers
           | responsible for being wasteful.
        
             | int_19h wrote:
             | The entirety of the HN Add Comment page is 82 lines of HTML
             | (that's _after_ pretty-printing it!) - two tables, and a
             | form with a text area. The only image is the logo. Granted,
             | there 's also 175 lines of CSS linked from that, and 150
             | lines of JS (which does not use any libraries or
             | frameworks).
             | 
             | How did we get to the point where 50 Mb to maintain this
             | document structured in memory and ready to render is
             | considered reasonable?
        
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