[HN Gopher] Observations about writing and commenting on the int...
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       Observations about writing and commenting on the internet
        
       Author : ggoo
       Score  : 16 points
       Date   : 2022-02-14 17:07 UTC (5 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (dynomight.net)
 (TXT) w3m dump (dynomight.net)
        
       | notacoward wrote:
       | As an Online Person for nearly 40 years, many things in this
       | resonated with me. The "engagement has a sample bias" part seems
       | particularly relevant, and neither OP nor I are the first to
       | notice that people are more likely to speak up in disagreement
       | than in support.
       | 
       | Overall, I think many of the ills that OP describes come back to
       | the same thing: writing on the internet is mostly more like
       | public speaking than normal conversation. This is especially true
       | for blogs, but even in places like Twitter or here there's a
       | division between you as writer and many strangers as readers.
       | That's not how people normally operate IRL. In-person discussions
       | are usually among only a few people, up to maybe a few dozen in a
       | big conference room, and they're more interactive. One-way
       | speaking in front of hundreds or thousand of strangers is
       | something many people never do, and many more consider it the
       | most anxiety-creating thing they've done. But here online, we all
       | do it all the time, and we all learn to do it in a very
       | particular way - using the voice of authority (or the "high
       | school debate club" voice) instead of our normal conversational
       | voice, anticipating disagreement or even hostility (see above
       | about sample bias), and so on. The more antagonistic the forums
       | you've been in, the more you'll adopt that style yourself. Just
       | look around right here. It wouldn't be _at all_ surprising to see
       | examples outing themselves in replies to this very comment. And
       | yes, I 'm exemplifying that tendency myself. It's deliberate, so
       | no need to call me a hypocrite for it.
       | 
       | I've been thinking about ways to foster a more "living-room-like"
       | environment without these malign effects, but haven't really come
       | up with anything. Maybe the so-called metaverse - for all the
       | other issues with that concepts - will at least feel real enough
       | that people will feel inclined to interact as their normal selves
       | instead of as their current (and generally not so congenial)
       | internet selves.
        
       | blurker wrote:
       | I found this to be very insightful. A good read for anyone
       | wanting to do better at putting their ideas out there (aka me).
       | Sometimes I consider not reading any comments / online feedback,
       | but I think this article makes a good argument for the value that
       | online feedback can provide if your goal is to effectively reach
       | people. But then I also see some benefit of ignoring that and
       | maintaining artistic or value integrity. Sometimes people produce
       | amazing new things because they ignore what others tell them. Or
       | maybe despite it? I don't know, just gets me thinking...
        
       | melindajb wrote:
       | "It's puzzling that there isn't a stronger tradition of "user
       | testing" for writing. Occasionally I'll give a friend something
       | I've written and implore them, "Please circle anything that makes
       | you feel even slightly unhappy for any reason whatsoever." Then
       | I'll ask them what they were thinking at each point. There are
       | always "bugs" everywhere: Belaboring of obvious points, ambiguous
       | phrases, unnecessary antagonistic language, tangential arguments
       | about controversial things that don't matter, etc."
       | 
       | This is called an editor. They're invaluable!
        
         | ohwellhere wrote:
         | This is an amazing first comment in the context of the article.
        
           | melindajb wrote:
           | The irony was not lost on me either. but I really did agree
           | with a lot of the piece. :) To his point, again.
        
         | blurker wrote:
         | Not disagreeing but just pointing out that I felt the author
         | also said this:
         | 
         | > Fixing these is great but your friends (let's hope) don't
         | want to hurt your feelings. This makes it almost impossible to
         | get them to say things like, "your jokes aren't funny" or "you
         | should delete section 3 because it's horrendous and
         | unsalvageable". Good editors are gold.
         | 
         | Perhaps this is a good example of their main point, haha!
        
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