[HN Gopher] Tibia (1997) is one of the earliest and longest-runn...
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       Tibia (1997) is one of the earliest and longest-running MMORPGs
        
       Author : doener
       Score  : 71 points
       Date   : 2022-02-13 19:38 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (en.wikipedia.org)
 (TXT) w3m dump (en.wikipedia.org)
        
       | waffle_maniac wrote:
       | Related: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Lord
        
       | dang wrote:
       | Related: https://www.vice.com/en/article/3bka3w/one-players-nine-
       | year...
       | 
       | (Posted a couple times to HN, but there weren't any comments.)
        
         | dane-pgp wrote:
         | Can we also get the submission title changed to something less
         | useful, please?
        
         | johncoltrane wrote:
         | FWIW, the "Mathias Bynens" in the article happens to be the
         | JavaScript VIP Mathias Bynens, which, for some reason, doesn't
         | surprises me at all.
        
       | wngd1 wrote:
       | I actually met my best friend because of tibia. Heard him talking
       | about it in school. Many great memories. No game would get your
       | heart beating like tibia when you're about to take a death.
       | 
       | Medivia is actually very close to old school tibia if anybody is
       | interested in checking it out. https://medivia.online/
        
       | miki123211 wrote:
       | Over here in Poland, Tibia seemed to be what WoW was in the US.
       | 
       | I might be misremembering things, I am too young to remember much
       | from that period, but I definitely heard the word Tibia much more
       | often. I don't think I've heard of WoW before I learned to speak
       | English proficiently and encountered random articles from that
       | period.
        
         | toomanydoubts wrote:
         | Back then the polish and brazilian community was huge. During
         | my childhood in brazil, everyone and their mothers were playing
         | tibia.
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | This game defined my childhood. All of my friends played it.
           | We'd log into it just to hang out at the temple south of
           | Thais. Training skills and chatting. It was like IRC but with
           | a MMORPG built-in.
        
         | INTPenis wrote:
         | In Sweden too among my circles Tibia was more talked about than
         | WoW.
        
       | harles wrote:
       | I haven't played much Tibia, but I'm fascinated by its camera/art
       | style. As far as I'm aware, it was the last game to use the
       | orthographic projection with a shear as popularized by the Ultima
       | series. Folks seem to love it or hate it, but it certainly makes
       | controls convenient as it eliminates odd movement angles typical
       | of isometric games.
        
       | qnsi wrote:
       | I wasted countless hours when I was young playing Tibia with my
       | brother and father. It was a brutal game for children. Spending
       | two weeks gaining 2 levels and then losing them when the Internet
       | broke or another player killed you.
        
       | ace2358 wrote:
       | Remind me of Everquest which started in 1999. It has similarly
       | been updated to death over the years and is now free to play.
       | 
       | However I still get me 'classic' fix through Project 1999 and The
       | Al'Kabor project (for varying definitions of 'classic').
        
       | achillean wrote:
       | There are still nearly 800 OpenTibia game servers available:
       | 
       | https://www.shodan.io/search/report?query=product%3A%22OpenT...
        
       | tester756 wrote:
       | One of the most addictive games
       | 
       | How do I know?
       | 
       | I've been playing it for 15 years and I still have PACC (prem)
       | account.
       | 
       | Developers are greediest fucks I've ever seen.
       | 
       | It's insane that game this old can be this profitable - just
       | google "tibia income" and go to graphics
       | 
       | Most people play this game in "grind-style" nowadays, so
       | basically team-hunt everyday for 1? 2? 3? hours (idk what are
       | optimal strats nowadays), get levels and cash, do bosses, yada
       | yada.
       | 
       | _________
       | 
       | but this game has impressive OSS community
       | 
       | https://github.com/otland/forgottenserver
       | 
       | https://github.com/edubart/otclient
       | 
       | and more
       | 
       | they basically recreated tibia game client & server
       | 
       | people were playing on private servers with real clients
       | 
       | and nowadays as I see custom private servers use custom clients
       | that are impressive as hell imo.
       | 
       | I've had a lot of fun debugging those C++/Lua game mechanics when
       | trying to create my own server but since its time consuming to
       | create nice game play then I gave up
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | rchaves wrote:
       | Good old times, in Tibia ~2007 you actually feared for your life,
       | as you could lose weeks of work when you died, and most servers
       | where pvp enforced
       | 
       | Talking to the NPCs at the store was also very interesting, you
       | actually had to talk, using the chat like a normal human being,
       | not click the options, and they only answered one player at a
       | time
        
         | qnsi wrote:
         | also a training ground for scammers. I learned about scams when
         | I felt into one, signing with my credentials into fake tibia
         | site, when I though I am joining a clan. Lost 10 levels and got
         | a red scull. I was 12.
         | 
         | But my cousin, learned to scam other people and got some spare
         | cash doing that. Not that I condone that behaviour. He would
         | befriend OTS owners and somehow get admin rights on multiple
         | OTS servers (unofficial servers) and then sell items or levels
         | via prepaid cards, without the knowledge of an owner. Sometimes
         | he stole ownership of whole OTS servers and ruined them just
         | for fun.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | lmas wrote:
         | > Talking to the NPCs at the store was also very interesting,
         | you actually had to talk, using the chat...
         | 
         | Yep I remember people would form orderly queues in the shops,
         | waiting for their turn to talk with the NPC. Not sure what
         | happened with line cutters, but I assumed they got hunted down
         | afterwards.
        
           | samstave wrote:
           | >>but I assumed they got hunted down afterwards
           | 
           | As a seasoned PVP clan owner on the UO shards in 1997 - I
           | approve of this message.
           | 
           | God those were the days -- but we had a Massive God Mode
           | Advantage in 1997... we ran Intel's Game Lab with a T3
           | dedicated to our groups' needs, and 6 local accounts in the
           | Intel DRG Lab (Only two of us worked there, we ran three
           | login-accounts a piece - but we had a Guild Member (there
           | were only three actual humans in the guild - but 8 accounts)
           | 
           | PvP in UO was sublime. Golden age of gaming for this old
           | gamer.
        
       | sjaak wrote:
       | It used to be an amazing game where dying was supremely painful
       | and meant the loss of tens (or sometimes hundreds) of hours of
       | work.
       | 
       | It used to also be possible to player kill in all sorts of
       | creative ways which made the game a lot of fun. If you were
       | clever in using game mechanics (uh traps, etc.) you could take
       | out a much higher level with several low levels this way.
       | 
       | Over the years many interesting game mechanics were removed and
       | the death penalty has also been reduced tremendously.
        
       | cloudking wrote:
       | EverQuest lit the torch for MMORPGs, nothing really compares
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EverQuest
        
       | andersonmvd wrote:
       | There are other long running MMORPGs that are worth mentioning
       | like RuneScape (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RuneScape). A few
       | years ago they realized they changed the game so much that they
       | decided to 'restore a backup' from the good old times and launch
       | it as 'Old School RuneScape'. If I'm not mistaken this retro
       | version has more users than the 'main version', currently called
       | RuneScape3. This game has a documentary on youtube and such. The
       | main problem I found about being a 'long lived running MMORPGs'
       | is that although the game still exists, the company was bought
       | twice as far as I am concerned, and that changes a lot of things
       | in a game, specially regarding to monetization. For example
       | adding some gambling features and not standing much for ethics
       | inside the game (e.g., bug exploitation) as a measure to keep
       | paying customers. In the documentary the founder & ceo (Andrew)
       | explicitly regret selling the company after seeing how the game
       | (or at least some part of it) turned out to be.
        
       | toivo wrote:
       | There were some really brutal tactics in this game. If someone
       | with a higher level was ighting with a tough opponent, you could
       | wait for them to be low hp, kill them and take their stuff.
       | Apparently the friendlist system in that game worked in a manner
       | where you didn't have to accept the friend invitation to see if
       | someone was online and their location in the world. This was
       | useful for stalking. When you saw people you had beef with come
       | online at the same time, you knew you were in trouble. Especially
       | with a system where if you died, you could lose levels. My friend
       | told me that he had sometime angered a Swedish clan they started
       | to stalk him. His solution was to make fake account that
       | pretended to be a member of this Swedish clan, and he then used
       | it to bait an even bigger clan to attack this Swedish clan by
       | pissing them off.
        
         | greiskul wrote:
         | Yes, you could add anyone to your list of people you wanted to
         | your friends list to see if they were online. And if they were
         | online, there was a spell that told you the cardinal direction
         | they were from you, plus a fuzzy distance (they are very far to
         | the north). So people used to hunt each other when they got to
         | disagreements, and at higher levels, it was common for entire
         | groups of people to get into wars with each other. The lack of
         | instancing of any kind, made it so to advance you would need to
         | go hunt monsters in an always shared environment, and with
         | monster respawn rate sometimes being too low to support
         | multiple people hunting at the same spot, and monsters not
         | spawning in view of a player, made disagreements on who got to
         | hunt where be bound to happen.
        
         | carom wrote:
         | I played this game a lot and loved it. It was brutal and I lost
         | a lot of interest as it became more player friendly. Some more
         | things to note -
         | 
         | You could not pass through other players so in a single person
         | hall way you could be blocked. You could click and drag them to
         | push but this could be counteracted by placing certain objects
         | behind yourself (parcels for example) or another player.
         | 
         | You had to chat with NPCs to sell things. Hi. Sell plate armor.
         | Yes. Yes. Things could only be sold one at a time.
         | 
         | Spells had to be typed out in the chat box. I do not remember
         | if there were always hot keys, but if there were early on they
         | did not auto cast.
         | 
         | Sorcerers and druids (healers) did something called mana
         | sitting to grind up their magic level. Usually they would be
         | making runes (stored up spell) that could be used in battle.
         | These did not stack so you would sell backpacks full of them.
         | Runes did not have hot keys for a long time so mages were pro
         | at clicking them then clicking enemies or party members.
         | 
         | Knights (tanks) could train their melee skill by attacking
         | monsters with a weak weapon. Basically just sitting around and
         | chatting.
         | 
         | Rope, to go up holes, had to be used on a specific spot on the
         | ground. You could pile items on this spot and block its use.
         | This was used to trap people to be killed by players or
         | monsters.
         | 
         | Luring was a big thing. You had to take these tedious walks
         | between cities. Higher level players would lure monsters from
         | further areas to the main path. You could bring both giant
         | spiders and dragon lords to this path. I died a lot this way
         | but it made travel very exciting. You could yell so it was
         | often seen GS AR DWARF BRIDGE as you approached one of the
         | larger barriers to monsters on the path.
         | 
         | The death penalty was very harsh as well. You lost like 10%
         | (iirc) of your experience which amounted to your last level
         | gained. Additionally, you had a 100% chance to drop your back
         | pack slot, and a 10% chance to drop each piece of gear (helmet,
         | weapon, shield, armor, legs, boots, ring, arrow slot). This
         | hurt. Tears were shed.
         | 
         | Paladins (distance fighters) had to pick their ammo up off the
         | ground. So they would throw a spear then have to pick it up.
         | 
         | To sell things you would advertise by yelling in the city you
         | were in. The screen was always full of offers as you approached
         | the depot in the city.
         | 
         | There was a game called fast hands where you tried to move
         | items onto a mutually accessible square and off before the
         | other person could grab it. Many people used scripts to cheat
         | at this.
         | 
         | Tibia was absolutely brutal. Guilds operated very much as
         | gangs. Tons of pl, br, and mx players. I loved it though. It
         | was a very big part of my childhood. I loved it because it was
         | brutally difficult and lost interest as some of these flaws
         | were fixed. The other game I played was early America's Army,
         | which also had a very different pace to most fps, it was
         | another really fun game and kinda died when they switched
         | engines and may the play loop more traditional and faster
         | (added respawns).
        
       | guilhas wrote:
       | One of the games I had most fun
       | 
       | My heart would pump a lot every time, something unexpected
       | happened, it felt very real. Someone appeared, and I was alone...
       | Exploring, hiding, killing, running...
       | 
       | Dying was very costly. So it was very personal, a lot of people
       | would go to the killer and ask "why?". Noting the killer's name
       | and plot revenge was certain, you could follow someone for days,
       | or ask for help
       | 
       | Team was important, but if you didn't have friends playing Tibia,
       | or at all, getting a team in the game was hard and because there
       | were a lot of scammers just waiting to double cross you. I think
       | that was one of it's biggest problems
       | 
       | The funnier things in this game were not fund in most similar
       | games
       | 
       | * Using the environment to make traps, like blocking the path
       | with boxes and set them on fire
       | 
       | Just block someone in a room with too many monsters, collecting
       | the loot when dead
       | 
       | Or block the path of someone running after you
       | 
       | * Running away mechanics, very funny, could go up and down walls
       | to roofs, by piling boxes or using a spell
       | 
       | * Hiding your loot under a tree, while running away, most would
       | not look for it, you could recover it hours later
       | 
       | * Manual aim of spells, to hit people you would need click on
       | them, so they could run erratically to make it harder
       | 
       | There was even a flash site just to train your aim
       | 
       | But unfortunately eventually changed to automatic aim since there
       | were a lot of people using aimbots
       | 
       | * The quests had to be found, which made it exciting, there were
       | secrets everywhere. You had to explore. But also worked against
       | it making it harder to just start a random quest. Even though
       | there were a lot of community sites curating many of them
       | 
       | Other games just felt like sandboxes compared to Tibia
        
       | toomanydoubts wrote:
       | This game changed my life. It forced me to learn English to be
       | able to properly interact and play the game. Eventually I started
       | dabbling with open-source tibia servers(AKA otservers) and it
       | didn't take long before I was writing some lua scripts. It was
       | fascinating being able to program the game world like that.
       | 
       | If today I'm able to work remotely abroad as a software engineer,
       | I owe a huge part of that to Tibia. My favorite game ever.
        
       | vector_spaces wrote:
       | Tibia was great in the early days. It had phenomenal player
       | driven politics where in principle anyone could kill anyone, but
       | in practice people had friends, and some people had really
       | powerful friends who could make life hell for you if you bothered
       | them. Eventually the game operators restricted the pvp system and
       | added a formal system for having guild wars. Today I understand
       | why they did it, but it effectively killed any interesting player
       | driven politics.
       | 
       | The server I played on was pretty stable for years because it had
       | an ultra powerful ruling guild (the Liches of Archinare on
       | Lunara). Eventually they were their own downfall, having
       | persecuted enough people over the years -- myself included --
       | that the uprising, when it came, was overwhelming. And after that
       | came endless wars as various factions vyed to occupy the power
       | vacuum that appeared
       | 
       | I learned a lot about culture and power from that game. For
       | instance, in the early days of Lunara, pretty much nobody
       | targeted the friends and loved ones of their opponents during
       | wars, and the idea was highly frowned upon. But in the beginning
       | of the uprising against LoA, I opened that door, and it became
       | standard practice after that in all the subsequent conflicts
       | 
       | Another aspect I particularly enjoyed about the game was the
       | diversity of its player base. I learned Swedish and Brazilian
       | Portuguese and bits of Dutch and Tagalog and other languages
       | because I always had friends to practice with there. I even
       | picked up a bit of Papiamento
        
         | freeflight wrote:
         | _> anyone could kill anyone_
         | 
         | Getting killed also meant all your equipment and inventory
         | could be looted and stolen by whoever comes across your corpse.
         | 
         | The exp penalty was also crazy; Players could lose levels from
         | dying, even levels on trade skills, which often would take many
         | hundred hours, and materials, to level up.
         | 
         | So it was very much possible to gank a very developed high
         | level character, with hundreds of hours in progress, back to
         | basic lvl 1 with no skills if one was dedicated enough.
        
       | foobarbaz33 wrote:
       | I played this back in the day. It was amazing. Before the skull
       | system. You wielded real power in this game if you could attain
       | it. There were real heroes who held their ground against tyranny,
       | risking years of work on their character.
       | 
       | Now days it feels a bit cartoonish, and auto-managed everything.
       | The community of English speaking players collapsed when World of
       | Warcraft came out. The game is not what it was.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | atum47 wrote:
       | A friend who went to college with me says Tibia was his first
       | programming experience. He says he used to write scripts for it.
       | As others have mentioned, lots of my friends here in Brazil
       | played Tibia.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | Same here. Touched C++ and Lua for the first time as a kid when
         | I customized an open tibia server.
        
       | andrepd wrote:
       | How come in the post WoW era no MMO has ever been _even remotely
       | as close_ as the old MMOs, like Tibia or Ultima, to fulfilling
       | the promise of a _shared, persistent, virtual world_?
        
         | pjc50 wrote:
         | Negative scaling: the bigger it gets, the more potential for
         | people to cause problems, on a larger scale.
         | 
         | This leads to features being removed to sanitize the world and
         | make it more manageable. The community governance - among the
         | players and between the players and the owner - becomes worse.
         | For the overwhelming majority, making a game _more_ like a
         | theme park is better.
         | 
         | That said, I think 2nd life is still going and mostly
         | delivering this?
        
           | awelxtr wrote:
           | What about Eve online?
        
         | hombre_fatal wrote:
         | Does Minecraft count? What other MMOs are people playing and
         | why don't they come close? I've dabbled in some post-WoW MMOs
         | over the years and they are no less "shared" and "persistent"
         | than WoW--they're basically the same thing.
         | 
         | Tibia and Ultima were brutal games that can't really compete in
         | the sea of choices people have in modern gaming. Just look how
         | many games reduce any sort of grindy or hardcore mechanics they
         | had in an attempt to appeal to a wider, modern audience instead
         | of just the few people who want and have time for a more
         | hardcore experience.
         | 
         | I saw an interview with one of the high level people involved
         | in the modern Pokemon games who said as much when asked about
         | the complaints of the modern Pokemon games being easier and
         | less grindy and less complicated.
         | 
         | Should modern MMOs always cater to a wider audience than a
         | smaller one? Well, just imagine you were the one bankrolling
         | such an expensive, risky project.
        
           | duskwuff wrote:
           | Minecraft doesn't really hit the "shared world" part in the
           | same way. Most players play alone, or with a small group of
           | friends. There are a couple of Minecraft "anarchy" servers
           | that come close, but playing on one of them is a pretty
           | deliberate decision.
        
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       (page generated 2022-02-13 23:00 UTC)