[HN Gopher] Some conclusions about the high desert after five mo...
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Some conclusions about the high desert after five months of desert
life
Author : simonebrunozzi
Score : 78 points
Date : 2022-02-12 16:19 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (sashachapin.substack.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (sashachapin.substack.com)
| danans wrote:
| > Nobody is trying to monetize this uniqueness with a YouTube
| channel or anything. They just exist that way.
|
| To the contrary, people monetizing their unique lifestyles or
| skills in remote non urban places is a major thing on YouTube.
| Some are in the environs of Joshua Tree, no less.
|
| Just dip your toes in the off-grid or permaculture lifestyle
| worlds and you'll find them.
| betwixthewires wrote:
| I think the point of the statement is less "nobody out here is
| monetizing it on YouTube" and more "you'll meet all sorts of
| interesting people out here and most of them just live the way
| they live, no incentive required."
|
| Sure you can go on YouTube and live vicariously through a young
| white dude with a cute girlfriend in a flat bill cap and Oakley
| sunglasses and a 100k RV shilling products at you and starting
| every video with "what is up guys hit the notification bell
| down below", and maybe you can imagine your life being more
| like that. Maybe you'll even learn a thing or two about
| gardening or cooling an aluminum box in the summer. But
| actually getting out there, you'll find a ton of people
| actually living interesting lives without a gopro on a selfie
| stick.
| thfuran wrote:
| >you'll meet all sorts of interesting people out here and
| most of them just live the way they live, no incentive
| required."
|
| But isn't that true pretty much everywhere?
| the_gipsy wrote:
| > You go to cities for commerce, optionality, stimulation, sex,
| culture, bright lights, and the feeling of being relevant. Cities
| tell you that, whatever human life is about, you are right on top
| of it.
|
| No, Sasha, most people go to the city to escape poverty.
| dragonwriter wrote:
| "to escape poverty" is a subset of "for commerce".
| technothrasher wrote:
| Some of us don't go to cities at all if they can help it. My
| visit to a city is usually because I was dragged there by
| somebody else, or because I'm traveling through to get
| somewhere else. I've visited enough cities (in every continent
| but South America, and Antarctica obviously) to know you all
| can keep them.
| the_gipsy wrote:
| I recently moved out of the city too, and everything in the
| article resonates with me. It's just that people that move
| into the city usually do it to get a better job. If you have
| been born there, yea, it probably feels like what the author
| said, you don't even realize.
| matthewdgreen wrote:
| > You don't get to only hang out with Democrats. Former Trump
| voters are the people who drag your car out of the sand when it
| gets stuck, or help you fix your bathroom, and they are extremely
| nice, and don't turn their noses down at your fussy jute rugs or
| purple sofa.
|
| I guess I've always assumed that (like myself) many US city
| dwellers grew up in rural areas and migrated to the city because
| of the lack of economic opportunity. Many others grew up in
| generally conservative working class urban areas. So I'm
| constantly surprised that Substackers feel the need to constantly
| remind their audience that rural people are ordinary folks and
| don't have forked tongues or whatever.
|
| At the same time I feel articles like this one miss a lot of the
| real tragedy that goes on in US rural areas. For city migrants
| with fancy remote jobs there's plenty to enjoy. But your children
| will have to leave the area when they grow up, at least to
| maintain a similar quality of life. Having moved to a medium-size
| city (and left my rural home at 18) I am contemplating the idea
| that my own children might live close to me after they grow up -
| or at least they could choose to. That's exciting and I think
| trumps any amount of natural beauty I miss living in Baltimore.
| And over the course of my lifetime politics has become polarized
| in a very nasty way, largely due (I think) to the economic
| circumstances. You can ignore this but it's still there.
|
| Finally: if your friends in the city are pretentious, make some
| new friends.
| pnathan wrote:
| > For city migrants with fancy remote jobs there's plenty to
| enjoy. But your children will have to leave the area when they
| grow up, at least to maintain a similar quality of life. Having
| moved to a medium-size city (and left my rural home at 18) I am
| contemplating the idea that my own children might live close to
| me after they grow up - or at least they could choose to.
| That's exciting and I think trumps any amount of natural beauty
| I miss living in Baltimore.
|
| Absolutely true. Part of why we want to be in the city is so
| that our children don't _have_ to leave, like we had to.
| s1artibartfast wrote:
| Yes and no. There is always the option of being a "townie". I
| moved into a city 15 years ago and often ponder what life
| would be like if I had stayed, and what I want for my
| children.
|
| While city life certainly comes with more monetary
| opportunity, I am still not sure it is worth the costs. I
| earn 200k/yr and struggle with the prospect of being a home
| owner here, knowing full well I make well above the median.
| Visiting my home town, I talk with peers who stuck around and
| bought homes with a bar tender's salary shortly after
| graduating highschool. They have their own challenges, but
| they are very different than mine. The grass is always
| greener, but I feel that the American dream of family, home
| ownership, and independence and is much more attainable in
| small towns.
| citizenpaul wrote:
| > a couple of dogs we didn't know were running around in our
| yard. A guy came and picked them up in his truck a few hours
| later. He explained that they broke out of the yard of a woman
| down the road...She didn't want to collect them herself, she was
| tired.
|
| I cannot fathom how someone can live a life this way or how they
| get there and continue to exist without dying of laziness. How
| can you care so little and still have animals to take care of
| much less yourself. It is incomprehensible to me.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| in a lot of rural areas dogs just roam around, neighborhood
| dogs would wander into our house sometimes
|
| they'll come home when they're hungry, as long as they don't
| bother livestock people don't tend to care much
| dendrite9 wrote:
| I don't think people realize this because they aren't exposed
| to it. My sibling almost got bitten by our relative's dog
| because they got down in the dog's face and went to pet him.
| The dog lived roaming in an orchard and now lives in a fenced
| in yard, but isn't used to new people, especially people
| invading its space. It seems especially common among a group
| of friends who have pets they dote upon like children to
| assume all dogs are friendly unless told otherwise. But that
| isn't true everywhere and they aren't all so socialized. The
| previous set of dogs would leave in the morning, run through
| the ditches, find other dogs, then come back later.
| Occasionally it was a concern, but often they were free to
| roam.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Yeah it's a bit of a culture shock for some people, and
| even as careful as I was growing up... still got bit a
| couple times, nothing too bad. In the city if your dog
| bites a kid you're in deep shit.
| andrei_says_ wrote:
| Tiredness may be related to health issues. Like, long Covid.
| akulbe wrote:
| It has been almost 9 months since I came home from my
| hospitalization with COVID. Prior to that, I'd have thought
| the same as citizenpaul.
|
| Now that I'm dealing with "long COVID" in a big, big way... I
| thought the same as you, and wondered if it wasn't something
| like that going on.
|
| Priorities have shifted, for sure. Having come >< close to
| death, the things you used to think were _super_ important
| just don 't seem to matter as much in the grand scheme of
| things.
| lazide wrote:
| It is rarely one simple attribute that makes someone 'lazy'. It
| is a side effect.
|
| Trauma, lack of self care, delusions, anxiety, demotivation,
| abuse, exhaustion, medical issues, serious mental health
| issues, etc.
|
| Same with hoarding. Same with anger issues/road rage, same with
| wife beaters, same with con artists, same with murders.
|
| These all interrelate to each other (often reinforcing or
| contributing to starting new ones too!) and while most
| functioning people are able to identify the factors causing
| dysregulation into a non-functioning or pathologically
| functioning state and address them before they become a real
| problem, anyone can end up there with the right set of stimuli
| and circumstances.
|
| For some it requires truly exceptional inputs (to the point
| it's nigh impossible - see James Bond Stockdale) for others it
| comes naturally due to a very unlucky set of genetic factors or
| how they were raised (or both).
|
| If you decide to choose pity, avoidance, anger, retribution, or
| something else (understanding and self-regulation in a way that
| helps you?) is up to you.
|
| Sometimes there is no 'good' response, which is why the legal
| system exists the way it does, right of self defense exists in
| most places, property rights exist in the way they do in most
| places to contain/conpartmentalize things, etc.
| trophycase wrote:
| Believe it or not, animals can take care of themselves for the
| most part.
| draw_down wrote:
| 1024core wrote:
| I recently visited JT after a gap of 20 years. I was shocked at
| how much it had changed. Where there were just the odd, local
| mom-and-pop shops peddling essentials, there were now shops
| selling high-end fashion crap.
|
| JT has become LA suburbia.
| djrogers wrote:
| " The world, you find out, is held together by sturdy guys with
| beards named Jim who don't give two sh##s about what you think or
| how you behave. Some of them say "God bless" and "have a blessed
| day" without a hint of irony."
|
| This right here is what so many people who never leave big cities
| miss out on.
| thebigman433 wrote:
| > This right here is what so many people who never leave big
| cities miss out on.
|
| I think this is also a highly idealized version of these
| people. I grew up in the Bay Area but have spent the majority
| of the last 5 years in Montana. There are plenty of kind and
| gracious people, but there are also a huge amount of people
| that do actually care about how you behave and where youre
| from. Ive been told countless times to leave the state, go back
| to where Im from, etc.
|
| The culture is definitely different from cities, but anyone who
| tells you its all rainbows, sunshine, and people saying "god
| bless" no matter what is lying to you.
| jack_h wrote:
| This works in both directions, there's even an
| acknowledgement of this within the original quote, "Some of
| them say "God bless" and "have a blessed day" without a hint
| of irony." This shouldn't even be surprising as humans are
| social creatures that form groups which ostracizes those that
| don't fit in.
|
| Cities tend to be easier simply because there are more people
| that will accept you, although certainly not everyone will.
| The more rural you get the less people there are and the more
| you're expected to fit in, you just don't have other options.
| thebigman433 wrote:
| Yea Im not saying it doesnt go the other way too, Im just
| saying that people idealize rural living and the people who
| do it as extremely kind and caring or whatever, when its
| generally no different than living in a city.
| j4yav wrote:
| Have to agree. I grew up in rural areas, and my experience
| was that everything around me was oriented around paying
| quite a lot of attention to making sure that everyone thought
| and especially behaved in the expected way. Moving to the
| city as soon as I could probably saved my life, since I was
| able to find a place where I could be my weird self without
| endless bullying from adults as well as children for being
| different. The part of the country I lived in, people were
| exceptionally (unbelievably in retrospect) cruel to Mexicans
| or anyone else who appeared foreign, and anyone who came
| across as non-straight.
|
| I don't think there is anything wrong with rural places or
| people, and I know many people can find happiness there (just
| like they can in cities). Many people are wonderful, just
| like many people in cities are wonderful. Many people in both
| places are not.
|
| That the desert is filled with noble savages, uncorrupted by
| civilisation, is a fantasy though.
|
| All that said, this article reads almost like a parody of
| something? I'm not entirely sure it's intended to be sincere,
| or if it is mocking a certain kind of city person who
| idealises the countryside.
| wrycoder wrote:
| Maybe they infer that you are making suggestions how they
| should live their lives? "Countless times" would indicate
| that it's about you, not them.
| thebigman433 wrote:
| I think maybe their own anxiety about thinking an outsider
| is going to tell them how to live could be causing it, but
| Im definitely not making suggestions for them. There have
| been multiple times at bars where the extent of the
| conversation was "hey how are you" -> "oh where are you
| from" -> "oh why dont you go back there" and thats it.
|
| I try to fit in the best I can, but there are still obvious
| differences in how I dress, and probably in how I act, but
| I definitely wouldnt see myself as hostile towards the
| people around me.
|
| If someone said a lot of people in a city were rude, there
| probably wouldnt be second thoughts about it, but it seems
| that a lot of people, especially in hn-type cultures
| idealize rural people and how they think they will act.
|
| Somewhat tangentially, Id say that current politics and the
| whole "California boogeyman" make this trend significantly
| worse overall
| watwut wrote:
| Or he is just visibly noticeably different. Some rural
| places have in fact hostile culture. Others don't, sure,
| but some really do.
| thebooktocome wrote:
| That may be the anxiety that causes their behavior, but
| it's an anxiety borne out of their own preconceptions. You
| don't have to do anything in particular to set them off:
| mere passive existence is enough.
|
| At least, in my experience.
| _jal wrote:
| My family moved to the rural South when I was 11.
|
| I was never accepted, my mom finally was after about 20 years.
| Part of it for me was that I think a bit differently and want
| different things than most other folks. But a bigger part was
| that this little Bible Belt town really was intolerant of that,
| far less so than the urban areas I've lived since then. They
| simply were more authoritarian and insecure in reaction to
| someone that didn't want they wanted.
|
| Yes, there are good folk in rural areas; in my experience,
| they're about the same proportion as of good folk in urban
| areas. And I see no difference in competence; some difference
| in what people are competent _at_ , sure. (Me, I still spend a
| lot of time making things, and I'm going to be rebuilding a
| run-down house this year that I'll probably have to hire
| someone to help with, but otherwise am doing myself.)
|
| I'm really, truly sick of the urban vs. rural culture war
| garbage. Romanticize whatever you like, that's the nature of
| how humans relate to their communities. But here's a hint: if
| that requires shitting on other ways of life, you're being
| defensive and insecure.
| maxk42 wrote:
| Five months, eh? Convenient that you just missed July and August.
| Let us know how you feel in another seven months.
| lazide wrote:
| It's like the Pacific Northwest and folks who move based on
| experiences during a visit anytime from May to August.
|
| It works itself out long term, but being one? Oof. That was a
| harsh awakening. I never knew moss could grow on a sidewalk
| before. Before I left, I knew it was amazing you could even see
| the sidewalk.
| soared wrote:
| Oh boy do I not like this blog post! It's well written and
| entertaining, but painfully unaware of itself despite thinking it
| is self aware. Rich guy from LA buys a house closer to nature and
| experiences the life most people live but thinks it's some
| transformative magical experience. Goes back to LA to eat
| escargot with friends but finds the city not as relaxing.
|
| It's like he's cosplaying as a normal person. Although if the
| article is written like this on purpose, it's a work of art.
| wrycoder wrote:
| Definitely keeps his teddy bear in LA.
|
| But I like the writing.
| porknubbins wrote:
| I found his description of LA as pretty dead on for why I moved
| out of NYC. There is endless novelty on some level but little
| or no actual meta-novelty, i.e. you can consume different
| things and experiences but you can't not consume. I do think he
| misses a lot about the benefits of living in a less popular
| area which are mostly around long term things like building,
| creating, community etc and freedom to decide your own pattern
| of living.
| yellow_postit wrote:
| To their credit they seem self aware with the comment on
| LARPing being a person that really lives there.
| danboarder wrote:
| "The environment forcibly meditates you."
|
| I love this quote, and I've experienced it while backpacking
| through the desert and through mountains as well, almost complete
| loss of time and forgetting all the things I used to care about
| (like checking what is on the front page of HN, for example).
| Coming back to the city is a weird feeling of "time" returning,
| almost like a regaining of consciousness after being asleep, it's
| a strange sensation. But also returning to the city pushes that
| meditative awareness side of me back into the shadow.
| wyclif wrote:
| What kind of homes and properties are the Angelinos migrating to
| Joshua Tree buying or building?
| radicaldreamer wrote:
| Expensive ones
| soared wrote:
| The types of homes purchased by people who casually have wine
| and escargot, and don't think twice when blogging about it.
| renewiltord wrote:
| I like this guy, honestly. But this sounds like someone who took
| their gap year in their middle age.
| astura wrote:
| Whoop-de-do, you spent five months somewhere.
|
| >Former Trump voters are the people who drag your car out of the
| sand when it gets stuck, or help you fix your bathroom, and they
| are extremely nice, and don't turn their noses down at your fussy
| jute rugs or purple sofa.
|
| Yeah... This is going to be highly dependant on your race and
| ethnicity.
|
| I'm really sick of this holier than thou attitude, and it's not
| even true. The implication is that people who vote Democrat won't
| help you when you break down and give a thought about your
| interior design choices. It's just not true, grow up.
|
| I spent 20 minutes listening to someone from Mississippi talking
| about how much better she is than "people around here" because
| she once helped "a Dominican or Puerto Rican" who broke down in
| front of her house. ... Except every single person I personally
| know around here would have done the same, except nobody I know
| around here would think to brag about it or pat themselves on the
| back.
| paulcole wrote:
| This reads like an AI trained on Joan Didion and tech bros.
| thebooktocome wrote:
| Joan Didion didn't deserve that.
| paulcole wrote:
| It honestly wasn't meant as a shot at her. Tech bros on the
| other hand...
|
| Comical (but bang-on accurate) to start this by quoting Paul
| Graham.
| pnathan wrote:
| I grew up in the high desert. My comment therefore is as follows:
|
| This, too, is vanity.
| vehemenz wrote:
| He admits as much.
|
| > But I'm really not different at all. It's salutary to
| remember that you are just a type of guy, as my friend Adam
| reminded me. I sing the praises of the non-consumer wilderness,
| but will still go to great pains to obtain a fancy croissant.
| To the longtime residents, I am instantly identifiable as a
| recent Angeleno, even if I'm wearing a dirty t-shirt and cut-
| off shorts. My hands are too soft, my body language is too
| awkward. Maybe if I live out here for like a decade it won't be
| accurate to accuse me of LARPing anymore.
| pnathan wrote:
| Not what I mean. The entire experience that it's a different
| place, that it inherently is different from the city.
|
| The interiority of the individual does not change, although
| the external world may reflect into the interior differently
| and the individuals' mind may easily filter one way or
| another. You can be and have the same interior experience if
| you're in the middle of a city, or if you're on the top of a
| mountain.
|
| it's just a place to live. one with better air and fewer
| people.
| fullshark wrote:
| I thought you were quoting the bible and was trying to
| decipher it:
|
| https://www.biblegateway.com/verse/en/Ecclesiastes%204%3A4
| pnathan wrote:
| I was. The whole logical schema here is vanity - or, more
| literally from the Hebrew - a pursuit after wind, a
| momentary breath, a flicker of wind on the cheek...
|
| The author's experience is that "same structure, new
| shapes" is the quality of the urban life. But that is
| also the quality of rural life, although the specific
| details differ; this is simply another shape in the same
| structure of life. Whether you're in the city, or the
| suburbs, or the emptiness of the mountain, you are who
| you are, people are who they are, there's no innate
| difference in the matter. The environment is strictly the
| environment.
|
| This, too, is vanity.
|
| To further quote the unnamed author -
|
| > Only this, I have found, is a real good: that one
| should eat and drink and get pleasure with all the gains
| he makes under the sun, during the numbered days of life
| that God has given him; for that is his portion.
|
| To be able to dwell in contentment where one is, is a
| real blessing.
| fullshark wrote:
| Seems to me like a nonfiction / memoir version of lampshade
| hanging:
|
| https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LampshadeHanging
| [deleted]
| gumby wrote:
| > LA is great... As you approach the city you feel the ambient
| stress levels start ramping up.
|
| I find the Bay Area, and the valley in particular energizing, and
| even high stress. There's something going on on every corner. My
| wife, an artist, found it dull, a cultural wasteland.
|
| When we went to LA she was excited by the high energy buzz, all
| the activity wherever you looked, and so much creativity. While
| to me, it was a sleepy place: the people even _walked_ slowly and
| had long lunches!
|
| All a matter of perspective.
| vmception wrote:
| But in what way is your perspective about SF Bay Area
| objective?
|
| From what I noticed, the people that like that place and aspire
| for it, aside from natives:
|
| Live in northern california or central valley and have no other
| city _around_. They aspire to escape their circumstance to SF.
|
| Other groups of people that have no other frame of reference of
| the other major cities, specifically LA/NYC.
|
| A work visa holder with no choice in the matter.
|
| Or people _with_ other frames of reference that love the
| outdoors and doing things an 1-4 hours away from the area but
| pretending it is something they do in that area. "What do you
| like about San Francisco?" <fond memories of hikes in Marin
| and Lake Tahoe>
|
| Just for the benefit of the doubt I'm going to put you in that
| last category. I'm really just hoping that you don't mean
| running around to tech meetups for pizza and AWS credits and
| saying its a matter of perspective.
| andreilys wrote:
| I mean... the SFBA when benchmarked against NYC and LA is a
| cultural wasteland, I don't think that's a matter of opinion.
|
| Very few artists/creatives live there because they are priced
| out by tech workers.
| opportune wrote:
| Depends on what you mean by culture. In terms of haute or
| prestige culture including the arts that would be correct.
| But if you are looking for fringe subcultures like
| psychonauts, ENM, amateur philosophy, people into weird shit
| like growing gourmet mushrooms or home (not necessarily
| illegal) chemistry - basically the stuff you wouldn't see on
| Instagram or whatever because it's too niche and weird - the
| SFBA has a really high density.
| antisthenes wrote:
| Maybe the author has a point in there somewhere, but I honestly
| can't get through writing like this.
|
| Reads as vapid, shallow nonsense.
| betwixthewires wrote:
| I've read this thread and agree with most of the criticism, but
| still, this portrayal does resonate with me.
|
| It's about the desert, but could be equally applied to getting
| away from cities to a slower paced place with a lot of outside
| going on. I did that (for more than 5 months) and never intend to
| go back to the cities. Just being able to see the stars in the
| sky and the lack of traffic make it worth whatever inconveniences
| come along with slower paced life.
|
| The noise of life is always in the background in the city,
| there's a base level stress that's just always there. Some people
| thrive on it. Some people, like me, need the calm.
| antisthenes wrote:
| Maybe the author has a point in there somewhere, but I honestly
| couldn't get through the writing. Who's the target audience for
| this?
|
| Reads as vapid, shallow nonsense, and there's certainly no
| conclusions, let alone arguments anywhere to be seen.
| kerneloftruth wrote:
| Actually, I think you understand it all really well. That's a
| good characterization. TFA is unintended self-parody.
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