[HN Gopher] Nearly a third of TV ads play to empty rooms
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Nearly a third of TV ads play to empty rooms
        
       Author : caaqil
       Score  : 256 points
       Date   : 2022-02-12 05:51 UTC (17 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.cornell.edu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.cornell.edu)
        
       | Animats wrote:
       | I'm surprised that streaming boxes don't pause the stream when no
       | one is looking, so the consumer has to watch the ads to continue
       | play. This could be marketed as a feature.
        
         | mormegil wrote:
         | In the Czech Republic, one of the major TV broadcasters now
         | leads a dispute against the IPTV providers, requesting them to
         | disallow the customers skipping ads when watching past programs
         | from the archive. Some of the providers now disallow fast
         | forward for the channels, others are implementing a streaming-
         | like feature where you can navigate as you like, but the
         | receiver will insert appropriate ads automatically. (And one of
         | the biggest providers removed the broadcaster completely for
         | the time.)
         | 
         | Some English-language (probably machine-translated) article:
         | https://www.archyworldys.com/prima-will-not-back-down-televi...
        
           | chrisandchris wrote:
           | Oh, Switzerland is already there. Beginning with 2022 IPTV
           | providers are advised to reduce replay functionality to 7
           | days and you can't skip all ads anymore. [1]
           | 
           | I wonder whether this will be the beginning of the end of the
           | classic TV.
           | 
           | [1] (in German):
           | https://www.luzernerzeitung.ch/wirtschaft/neue-regelung-
           | fern...
        
         | ako wrote:
         | They should use it the other way around, if people are not
         | watching, muting or fast forwarding they're not interested in
         | what your selling. No need to force your ad to them. But you
         | could ask for a discount on the cost of showing the ad, just
         | like with paying for the actual clicks on a web-ad.
        
           | imiric wrote:
           | > No need to force your ad to them.
           | 
           | Oh, there is a need, alright. If they claim they're not
           | interested, it's time to shift strategies[1]. After all,
           | nobody's immune to advertising[2]. I'm sure there are more
           | relevant studies that prove even ad-averse individuals are
           | still susceptible to them. It's just a matter of finding the
           | right _kind_ of advertising to reach them. Doing this
           | effectively is what gets you promoted in adtech.
           | 
           | Advertising is a cancer on society.[3]
           | 
           | [1]: https://wistia.com/learn/marketing/the-psychology-
           | behind-why...
           | 
           | [2]: https://knowledge.insead.edu/marketing/think-youre-
           | immune-to...
           | 
           | [3]: https://jacek.zlydach.pl/blog/2019-07-31-ads-as-
           | cancer.html
        
         | tdeck wrote:
         | If they haven't seen that episode of Black Mirror let's not
         | give them any ideas.
        
           | tobr wrote:
           | They seem more than capable of coming up with terrible ideas
           | themselves.
           | 
           | https://www.fastcompany.com/90185994/sony-files-patent-to-
           | ma...
        
         | webmobdev wrote:
         | You are an evil genius - I hope you always suffer with ads in
         | your dreams.
        
         | friedturkey wrote:
         | I'm always fearful of posting my tech nightmares on HN because
         | so many people here work in industries that exist just to fry
         | brains with ads. Probably most are rolling their eyes saying
         | "We're not that evil." But somebody is thinking "Hmmm."
        
           | Teever wrote:
           | I've always thought about the double-edged sword of
           | proactively patenting garbage like this.
           | 
           | On the one hand you prevent anyone else from using it for a
           | period of time, but on the other hand you give them ideas
           | that they might not have had.
        
             | jrockway wrote:
             | I think it's a really good idea to patent evil inventions,
             | so that nobody can ever use them. Something to consider.
        
               | dahart wrote:
               | The purpose of patents is to encourage the complete
               | disclosure of inventions so they can be used & improved
               | later by others (or even worked around with better
               | inventions now), in return for temporary exclusive
               | rights. Patenting evil inventions might be a way to
               | advertise and accelerate the proliferation of evil
               | ideas...
        
               | eru wrote:
               | > [...], so that nobody can ever use them.
               | 
               | Well, for 20 years, not forever.
        
             | hawski wrote:
             | https://patents.google.com/patent/US8246454?oq=8246454 look
             | at image 10
        
             | grujicd wrote:
             | If they watched Black Mirror they already have that idea.
             | And we already know what a nightmare that would be.
        
           | elcapitan wrote:
           | "We're not that evil. This is actually something people
           | want!"
        
             | gumby wrote:
             | In case elcapitan's comment appears sarcastic: this is
             | quite often how advertisers feel.
             | 
             | I don't know if it's narcissism or a human way of
             | justifying their actions. For humanity's sake I hope the
             | latter.
        
               | jackjeff wrote:
               | Yeah. It's like Google explaining how they help us by
               | having "relevant ads". The only ad that's relevant to me
               | is the one that I don't see. I must be in a minority
               | though, considered how successful ad businesses are.
        
               | dahart wrote:
               | I think you're in the majority with the rest of us. Like
               | you I hate most ads, and I suspect most people do too.
               | 
               | That said, one way to look at it from an advertiser's
               | perspective is that if you spend money on _anything_ ,
               | then relevant ads must exist, and they will continue to
               | try to find them. If they can't find them, they'll still
               | continue to spam us with irrelevant ads because they
               | still work a little; statistically, a few people will buy
               | the product for every million people who see the ad.
               | 
               | I spend money, and I even sometimes spend significant
               | amounts of time trying to figure out what to buy when I
               | need something I don't know a lot about. I also spend far
               | more time than I want to trying to ignore ads I don't
               | care about on the internet and YouTube, just like I used
               | to with TV.
               | 
               | Those are two separate time sucks, and I'd love to have
               | ads at least be teaching me impartial information about
               | whatever it is I'm shopping for, and help me figure out
               | what I need. It would save me time if I could merge ad
               | watching time with shopping research time. Google and
               | advertisers would love that too. But the level of
               | invasive privacy compromise that would bring would be a
               | million times worse than the bad situation we already
               | have, I'm not willing to accept it.
        
               | gumby wrote:
               | Back when magazines were printed on paper there were
               | whole genres of magazines that 95+% ads with essentially
               | no articles at all. Fashion, and, in the 90s, computing
               | were examples of this. There were lots of them on the
               | newsstand.
               | 
               | And "advertorial" is not a web-era idea; the travel,
               | sports, entertainment etc sections of the newspaper, and
               | most of local television news, looked like news but were
               | essentially all paid content one way or another.
        
             | ComradePhil wrote:
             | Yes, advertisers are people too. They would love that.
        
         | laurent92 wrote:
         | On the computer, the website of my national TV channel suspends
         | the ads if you switch windows. You can't let them play in the
         | background.
        
           | andrewl-hn wrote:
           | Thankfully there are browser plugins that block this
           | behavior.
        
         | Lammy wrote:
         | https://patents.google.com/patent/US20130125161A1/en is fun too
         | 
         | "The viewing behaviors may include the viewer [108] watching an
         | item of linear video content, or watching a combination of
         | items of linear video content. Additionally, the viewing
         | behavior may include an action performable by the viewer [108]
         | and detectable by one or more sensors [106], such as a depth
         | camera."
         | 
         | "However, in some embodiments, physical awards may be granted.
         | Such physical awards may include coupons, products, etc., given
         | to the user. To grant a physical award, an entity associated
         | with the user-viewing goal, such as a user-viewing goal
         | creator, may be notified in order to grant the award. In other
         | embodiments, a remote computing device which stores user
         | profile information, such as the digital media delivery
         | service, may be notified to grant the award."
        
         | travisgriggs wrote:
         | I'd just take a 4 minute video of me staring at the TV, and
         | post it on loop on a cheap screen across the room.
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | Only a very small fraction of people would even try to bypass
           | it like that. It would still be a big improvement to reducing
           | the rate of ads displayed to no one.
        
         | lordnacho wrote:
         | There should be a quiz about the ad that you have to answer
         | correctly to be allowed to continue the show:
         | 
         | Where is the nearest Prodafanilexicol store?
         | 
         | When does the sale end?
         | 
         | How many satisfied customers does Megacorp have?
         | 
         | Ok, enough people have answered correctly now, we will tell the
         | players to come out for the 2nd quarter.
        
           | jackjeff wrote:
           | If that ever happens, the next thing that would pop up is a
           | crowd source website with all the answers.
        
             | lordnacho wrote:
             | The questions can be personalized according to where you
             | live, age, number of kids you have, credit history, etc.
             | And a slightly smart AI can ask them in a way that's hard
             | to look up. It just needs to be hard enough that your best
             | solution is to actually watch the ad.
        
               | joconde wrote:
               | I think we should shut HN down now before someone
               | actually gives ad companies new ideas.
        
         | shakna wrote:
         | That's the plan for the new Moviepass. [0]
         | 
         | [0] https://www.vice.com/en/article/akvnba/moviepass-20-wants-
         | to...
        
           | Animats wrote:
           | And it has NFTs!
        
         | seanwilson wrote:
         | A less subtle idea from a patent by Sony:
         | 
         | https://fortune.com/2013/04/30/sony-patent-is-hilarious-terr...
         | 
         | > a user is watching a television program which is interrupted
         | by an ad. The ad instructs the user to say the word
         | "McDonald's" (MCD) to speed things along.
        
           | zootboy wrote:
           | Drink a verification can to continue...
        
             | piceas wrote:
             | Select all the bridges to continue.
        
         | nkrisc wrote:
         | A feature for whom? Any streaming box that does this in my
         | house is getting chucked straight into the trash.
        
         | javajosh wrote:
         | I don't imagine you're the first to think of this. It's a sign
         | of a healthy market it hasn't been tried, probably because
         | subscription streaming, with minimal ads (not "no ads" if you
         | include skippable previews as an ad, which I do), is a good
         | deal and if ad-only streamers (like Roku, I guess?) implemented
         | the feature they'd get even less audience than they have now.
         | You'd have to be pretty desperate if that small amount of money
         | could make a difference. It feels like the move a monopoly
         | would make to squeeze the absolute last drop of value out of
         | the position.
         | 
         | (It seems to be a battle of content, with all sides fighting
         | for all that long-term MRR, and no-one really has a monopoly on
         | great content. Which is actually pretty great! Of course local
         | stations don't have great content because their sample size is
         | too small.)
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | Youtube already does that, right ?
         | 
         | At least on desktop, when letting background tabs play some
         | youtube playlist it will stop after a while with a "are you
         | still watching ?" popup.
        
           | tifik wrote:
           | There are browser plugins that automatically dismiss that
           | dialog for you. YT with that and ublock origin is a
           | completely different experience.
        
             | Jerry2 wrote:
             | > YT with that and ublock origin is a completely different
             | experience.
             | 
             | SponsorBlock. It changed how I consume YT. It has saved me
             | a ton of time.
        
       | sunjester wrote:
       | So according to a statistics website, on Google, says the
       | television industry is going to profit 80+ billions dollars but
       | Cornell says the ads play to mostly empty rooms.
       | 
       | It should be.. A 1/3 of ads played for TVision's audience plays
       | to an empty room.
        
       | robertlagrant wrote:
       | Wait for Chrome to get volume control access permissions so
       | YouTube ads can pause if you muted them.
        
         | Sebb767 wrote:
         | YouTube is a strange outlier in that they still tolerate
         | adblockers despite them being very easy to block (at least in
         | the 99% case), so I don't think they'll be the first to
         | implement this.
        
           | kzrdude wrote:
           | It seems like Twitch really managed to avoid adblockers being
           | effective. And their ads are mostly not insane (game or
           | cinema related mostly).
        
           | jessaustin wrote:
           | One suspects that those who run youtube also use it...
        
             | Kwpolska wrote:
             | Nah, I'd expect the entire YouTube team to have premium
             | accounts.
        
       | lamontcg wrote:
       | A lot of this is due to many services doing autoplay with no way
       | to turn it off (YouTubeTV, ESPN+ on Roku, etc). There's a utility
       | to autoplay for the consumer when they are binge watching a
       | particular series. But when autoplay is picking random other
       | shows to "simulate linear TV" then really its the service
       | scamming advertisers taking advantage of this playing ads to an
       | empty room effect just to get more impressions. I don't
       | understand how advertisers don't bust them for it.
        
         | iamstupidsimple wrote:
         | Advertisers measure outcomes, not raw impressions. Because
         | everything is auction based there's a natural market correction
         | based on this, so impressions could e.g. be worth 1/3 less come
         | bidding time.
        
       | jarek83 wrote:
       | I wonder always whether the ad buyers genuinely believe that
       | someone is up there to watch an ad, or actually even with
       | extremely low return ratio per money spent they still manage to
       | get measurable more sales in return.
       | 
       | Maybe few times in my life I was remotely considering buying
       | something because of an ad, while 99,99% of them make me switch
       | channels, or mute the TV/radio until they end. I'm ad blind on
       | social media, not to mention I use ad-blockers wherever I can.
       | 
       | To me it's like buying thin air, and how this market is able to
       | get serious companies spent millions on it is beyond me.
        
         | DarylZero wrote:
         | It takes years to get hardened to advertising and stop spending
         | money based on it. There is a sucker born every minute.
        
         | joelthelion wrote:
         | Because contrary to your assumption, it does work. Not everyone
         | behaves like you. And simply hearing about a brand influences
         | our collective decisions, even if no single ad convinces you.
        
           | theduder99 wrote:
           | yeah I think ads can also serve as a reminder. for example
           | I'll typically get a pizza once a month. if i see a little
           | caesars ad on tv it will remind me 'oh yeah I like pizza and
           | havent one in awhile' so the task moves closer to the front
           | of the queue. I may not end up going to little caesars
           | specifically to get my pizza fix but I might..
        
           | jarek83 wrote:
           | So you are commenting that ads work under an article that
           | just gives some insight that people don't even watch them?
           | Where your assumption comes from?
        
       | Lamad123 wrote:
       | Probably 2 3'rds of internet ads play yo sleeping gamers, bots or
       | people taking toilet breaks.
        
       | hendersoon wrote:
       | I haven't watched an advertisement since 1999, when I bought my
       | first TiVo.
        
       | sys_64738 wrote:
       | The greatest invention on a television surely has to be the mute
       | button on the infrared remote control. When commercials are muted
       | then you realize how stupid they generally are and how they think
       | people are idiots.
        
       | tonyoconnell wrote:
       | Nearly 80% of emails are unopened
        
       | TheChaplain wrote:
       | Considering how technology develops, I could very well see a
       | future where we are forced to watch/acknowledge ads before the
       | actual content continues.
       | 
       | I think there was a movie with something like that, if the guy
       | closed his eyes, the ad would pause and wait until he looked
       | again.
       | 
       | I hope I am too cynical...
        
         | grishka wrote:
         | People will then find a way to hack it. You can't enforce this
         | kind of thing on a general-purpose device like a computer or a
         | phone.
         | 
         | Remember: on general-purpose devices, all code is mutable.
        
           | ComradePhil wrote:
           | Say that to iPhone users who can't install anything that is
           | not approved by Apple.
        
             | grishka wrote:
             | Android has around two thirds of market share worldwide
             | iirc, and up to 90% in some countries. The Default HN
             | Country (US) is pretty much an outlier with its 50/50
             | split.
        
               | DarylZero wrote:
               | Yeah and Android gets more and more locked down and user-
               | hostile every year.
               | 
               | Once they deny root to the user it's all a matter of
               | degree not principle.
        
           | perryizgr8 wrote:
           | > general-purpose device like a computer or a phone.
           | 
           | Most smartphones sold today wouldn't qualify as a general
           | purpose computer.
        
             | grishka wrote:
             | Android ones would. Even without root, you're able to use
             | apps like Termux, AIDE, and various emulators.
        
               | Tijdreiziger wrote:
               | > NOTICE: Termux is broken on Android 12. Android OS will
               | kill any (phantom) processes greater than 32 (limit is
               | for all apps combined) and also kill any processes using
               | excessive CPU. You may get [Process completed (signal 9)
               | - press Enter] message in the terminal without actually
               | exiting the shell process yourself.
               | 
               | https://github.com/termux/termux-app
        
               | DarylZero wrote:
               | Termux has whatever permissions Android gives it. No
               | direct access to audio, video, etc.
        
               | grishka wrote:
               | What do you mean by direct access? You'll need to build a
               | separate app to access these things because they are only
               | accessible via APIs that are only exposed in the java
               | land. But you _can_ build an Android app right on your
               | Android phone. AIDE allows you to do just that, and I
               | believe you can install the raw SDK in Termux and use it
               | as well.
               | 
               | In other words, you can use an Android phone on its own,
               | unmodified, to program it to do arbitrary things. Yes
               | it's awkward and yes you have to jump through some hoops
               | to get it set up. Nevertheless, this fits my definition
               | of a general-purpose computing device.
               | 
               | You could technically do the same on iOS. The only
               | problem here is that Apple would never approve an app
               | that gives a user this much control over their own
               | device. It's not a technical issue, but rather an
               | organizational one.
        
               | DarylZero wrote:
               | E.g. read this:
               | https://github.com/OxygenCobalt/Auxio/issues/38
               | 
               | "Parsing music metadata is actually really fast, it's the
               | process of getting a file handle from the android system
               | thats the real bottleneck. MediaStore is a system-level
               | daemon, so it doesn't have that restriction, but I do.
               | This is why Vanilla and VLC take so long to load media,
               | not because the metadata indexer is slow but because
               | reading files is slow. Google prefers this as it furthers
               | their quest to kill the filesystem, so there's nothing I
               | can do about it."
        
           | Beaver117 wrote:
           | I think we're reaching the end of that road. Look at Denuvo,
           | sure it's still hackable but takes several magnitudes more
           | time and effort than in the past. Eventually we'll reach a
           | point where consumers have no choice but to comply
        
         | izzydata wrote:
         | I'd never watch digital content ever again. I would only ever
         | read books from that point forward.
        
         | Un1corn wrote:
         | It was in Black Mirror. IIRC he was surrounded with screens in
         | his room and was forced to watch ads
        
         | danuker wrote:
         | If that happens, I'll stop watching said content.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | People seem to forget that if you make watching content too
           | painful, opting out is always an option.
        
         | robert_dipaolo wrote:
         | There was a Black Mirror episode 15 Million Merits [1] where
         | you either had to watch the ads (actually look at the screen)
         | or pay to skip them!
         | 
         | 1 - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifteen_Million_Merits
        
         | swalls wrote:
         | Good news, Sony already patented it. [0]
         | 
         | [0] https://fortune.com/2013/04/30/sony-patent-is-hilarious-
         | terr...
        
           | alexb_ wrote:
           | Everyone always brings this patent up while forgetting that
           | large companies will literally patent every single idea that
           | comes up just in case. Doesn't mean it's ever going to
           | actually happen. See also: Amazon's Wage Cage (though,
           | looking at Amazon, they might actually do that one)
        
         | albert_e wrote:
         | under-screen selfie cameras on phones will eventually take us
         | there
         | 
         | put 4 or 6 cameras and analyze your gaze to figure out what
         | part of screen you are paying attention to and if your pupils
         | dilate when you see a product/model picture
         | 
         | I wonder if some UI and navigation can become interactive based
         | on gaze too
         | 
         | obviously it will be ruined just like pop-ups and modals
        
         | freeflight wrote:
         | _> I could very well see a future where we are forced to watch
         | /acknowledge ads before the actual content continues._
         | 
         | I wonder if skipping YouTube ads is already used in a similar
         | way?
         | 
         | Pressing that small "skip" button is a user interaction that
         | acknowledges the users attention to the ad, and there is
         | usually a minimum time the ad has to run before it can even be
         | triggered.
         | 
         | So having an ad run for 5-10 seconds, with a manual skip, might
         | possibly be a more impactful "impression" then the ads just
         | running trough, without a skip, as most likely nobody is paying
         | attention to them in the very first place.
        
           | dec0dedab0de wrote:
           | I have suspected this for a while now. It's also a chance to
           | advertise subliminally to sleeping people, sometimes if you
           | don't skip the ad it will play what we used to call an
           | infomercial. In practice it just punishes people that lost
           | the remote, or are unable to easily move.
        
         | tempodox wrote:
         | > I hope I am too cynical...
         | 
         | Nope, this will definitely come to pass. As long as there's
         | munition left to be fired, or new one invented, the arms race
         | will continue.
        
         | Macha wrote:
         | We've got anti-AdBlock tech, mandatory tracking consent for
         | site usage, and even mobile games with mandatory ads that don't
         | progress if the device volume is too low. Many people on HN
         | would even support the first two. I think the lack of existence
         | of this tech is not due to ethics concerns, but due to it being
         | noticeable in the TV return window, rather than patched in
         | years later like many smart TV's most obnoxious ad slots.
        
       | nottorp wrote:
       | ... and nearly a third of TV shows play to a sleeping audience.
        
       | ultramegachurch wrote:
       | Tangentially related - there's a certain sublimity to watching
       | cable tv commercials in 2022. I'm completely converted to
       | streaming, so the only time I see tv commercials is at my parents
       | house. And in that context, I find myself enjoying them? Perhaps
       | it's nostalgia - they remind me of media when I was growing up.
       | There's also an element of escapism. Everybody in commercials is
       | beautiful and happy. And then there's the hyper capitalism Alice-
       | in-wonderland spectacle of it all. Commercials are strange and
       | ridiculous. I enjoy the absurdity of it.
       | 
       | I don't miss cable television commercials. But they provide a
       | unique lens into how strange it is to be a person at all.
        
         | eru wrote:
         | Might be similar to what many people experience when they
         | browse through old magazines and newspapers?
        
           | ncpa-cpl wrote:
           | With so many ads and modal boxes in newspaper websites, I've
           | recently find the paper newspaper a better experience
           | recently.
        
       | melling wrote:
       | Yeah, and when I don't head out for a 3 minute commercial break,
       | I have the mute button ready next to me.
        
       | travisgriggs wrote:
       | The sad thing is I can just hear a marketing execs response to
       | this revelation:
       | 
       | "Sooo... I guess we'll need to up our air time by a third, huh?"
        
         | tromp wrote:
         | To compensate for losing a third, you'd need to up it by a
         | half: (1+1/2) * 2/3 = 1.
        
           | travisgriggs wrote:
           | And the marketing exec would just stare at you with a glazed
           | eye when that was your response.
        
       | original_idea wrote:
       | hahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha _gasp_
       | hahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahah
        
       | rawland wrote:
       | For this research, the co-authors worked with TVision
       | Insights, a TV performance metrics company that         developed
       | innovative technology to passively monitor         who's in the
       | room and whether they're actually looking         at what's on
       | the TV screen,         while respecting viewer privacy.
       | 
       | Sure... the whole setup is very privacy respecting.
       | 
       | "Research" like this makes me wonder how the subject of economics
       | ever entered the halls of academe. While writing this I'm
       | wondering if the Frankfurt school of thought or Chomsky might
       | have explained this actually already.
        
         | nerdponx wrote:
         | What does this have to do with economics as a field?
        
         | withinboredom wrote:
         | If I were a kid and my parents signed up for something like
         | that, I'd set up a "fake human" so the camera would think
         | someone was always watching. Or sit off to the side.
        
       | taylorius wrote:
       | It's almost as if, despite the millions spent on engaging their
       | audience, no-one wants to watch their crap emissions.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | rabuse wrote:
       | The last time I watched TV (awhile back), it was an NFL game, and
       | the ads were absolutely unbearable. I'm shocked people still pay
       | for cable.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | I think you answered your own question. A lot of people want
         | the ability to watch sports. (And, while they're paying for it
         | anyway many like the TV as background.)
        
       | russellbeattie wrote:
       | Only half of all advertising actually works, the problem is no
       | one knows which half.
        
       | LeoPanthera wrote:
       | I am always amazed, amongst the shrinking group of people who
       | still watch broadcast TV, how many of them don't reflexively hit
       | Mute when the ads come on.
       | 
       | I've done it my entire life.
        
         | ako wrote:
         | Never done the mute thing, but would record everything with a
         | humax recorder, and just start viewing late. This way you can
         | just skip the ads completely. Unfortunately this doesn't work
         | with tv apps on the Apple TV. So mostly stopped watching tv.
         | Ads completely ruin tv watching.
        
         | waynesonfire wrote:
         | how about the dentist office, playing a traditional over-the-
         | air radio station featuring your favorite Sting song and an ad
         | for car audio system, instead of an ad-free streaming service.
         | 
         | Called out my dentist on this and he listened.
        
         | matheusmoreira wrote:
         | I mute ads too. I don't understand why anyone would actually
         | want to listen to this noise.
        
         | spullara wrote:
         | Most of the people still watching broadcast TV are older than
         | people that have had a mute button their entire life.
        
         | prawn wrote:
         | Went around to friends' place for dinner the other month and
         | they had TV news and ads blaring in the background the entire
         | time, no one paying attention. I can't stand TV or radio ads
         | and it was like chalkboard fingernails all evening.
        
           | mrweasel wrote:
           | When you are not exposed to ads constantly it become clear
           | just how obnoxious they are.
           | 
           | I think advertisers have been dialing up the attention
           | grabbing features over the years, and those constantly
           | exposed don't notice. Those who haven't been watching now
           | experience being exposed to the equivalent of ten babies
           | crying for your attention. It's truly and attack on your
           | senses and sanity, but you have to remove yourself from it
           | for a time to see how bad it is.
        
         | jonathankoren wrote:
         | I find it weird and disturbing that my kids pay more attention
         | to commercials -- not even kid commercials -- than the actual
         | show.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | Back when I used to travel for business I would watch the tv
           | sometimes in the hotel. I just watched the ads, because they
           | had the high production value. While a 30-minute (really 22
           | minutes) show might cost $3MM an episode, a 30 second ad
           | could easily cost a million to make. And in that 30 seconds
           | was a perfect short story: a crisis, a bit of character
           | development, then a resolution and a denouement. I could
           | watch a bunch of them, usually about products I'd never seen
           | before, and skip the crappy show.
        
         | hetspookjee wrote:
         | Id dream of a raspberry pie plugin that has a mic & IR
         | transmitter that just listens to ads or any semblance of it and
         | just hits mute the moment the confidence interval goes beyond
         | 90% based on the rise in ampltitude. False positives would be
         | straining though, and finding the moment to un-mute is also a
         | bit difficult perhaps. But given that all ads have their
         | loudness dialed up to 11 in relation to the actual program, it
         | might be easy enough to just listen to a large drop in
         | amplitude across the frequency spectrum to hit un-mute. This
         | can be completely off-the-grid with incidental updates if so
         | desired.
         | 
         | Could even put some federated learning into the bag for a
         | slight dystopian flavour - and that sweet VC allure - to also
         | listen to people hitting mute & unmute as a semi-reliable
         | labelling feature. Just sample the time window recording of the
         | frequency spectrum and it may be good enough already.
         | 
         | It wouldn't be foolproof but just good enough I guess. I'd be
         | willing to pay 200$ for a ad silencing IR transmitter with >90%
         | recall.
        
           | jaycar wrote:
           | you should fork sponsorblock.
        
           | horsestaple wrote:
           | Would be pretty easy to do in this eastern EU country. We
           | have laws that require stations to separate ads from content,
           | so there is always a short animation announcing the start and
           | end of ads.
        
           | stonogo wrote:
           | Have at it: https://circuitcellar.com/research-design-
           | hub/projects/build...
           | 
           | The device you would pay $200 for used to cost $40:
           | https://bgr.com/general/mute-tv-commercials-automatically-
           | ho...
        
           | eru wrote:
           | I think the ads don't really have the absolute loudness
           | dialed up, but use a lot of dynamic compression instead.
           | 
           | That's what (used to?) happen to music during the so-called
           | loudness war. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war
        
           | lazyeye wrote:
           | Id also want a visual "mute" where the picture shrinks to
           | tiny square in a corner of the screen whilst the main screen
           | is either blank or shows something pleasant and relaxing
        
           | squarefoot wrote:
           | AI could come to help: a powerful enough dedicated hardware
           | could decode HDMI signals, match the audio/video with the
           | known fingerprint of an ad, substitute it with say a tropical
           | beach or some mountains with a soft jazz music background and
           | a small countdown in a corner "ads end in: mm:ss", then
           | resume the program at the predicted end. The fingerprint
           | would be taken by the users by pushing a button to mark each
           | spot start and end so that the AI can recognize it and upload
           | to a central server that would aggregate all data. The system
           | should have a buffer long enough to allow watchers to rewind
           | to the exact start and end of the spot, and to allow the AI
           | to analyze the data before showing it to the watchers,
           | however a very long buffer could be even more handy to wait
           | for the entire program to end, then process it so that every
           | ad is removed and the program joined back together with no
           | interruptions. Doable? Yes, but would need a lot of work and
           | some money for the hardware. Probably also overkill since
           | pretty much all programs are already available ads free on
           | decentralized torrent swarms.
        
             | vanilla_nut wrote:
             | Sinilarly, this is the only "AR" I ever want in my life:
             | glasses that detect billboards/subway/bus ads and either
             | "magic erase" them or just replace them with images of my
             | choice.
        
             | badestrand wrote:
             | You don't need AI for that. 20 years ago my neighbors had a
             | small device that would automatically mute the TV whenever
             | the ads started playing and unmuted when they finished. No
             | idea how it worked but for sure it didn't have a fancy
             | neural network inside.
        
               | squarefoot wrote:
               | That device sensed the higher average sound levels at
               | which ads are usually broadcasted, and it's also easy to
               | build. The problem is those ads that have or start with
               | lower sound levels which would be impossible to spot
               | without matching them with a known audio/video pattern.
        
               | ComradePhil wrote:
               | It looks in the video signal for the TV channel logo. No
               | logo means ads.
        
           | withinboredom wrote:
           | MythTV (open source DVR) would skip commercials in the
           | recording. So I'd just watch my shows an hour later without
           | commercials.
        
           | adrianmonk wrote:
           | > _federated learning_
           | 
           | One approach that occurred to me is to take advantage of the
           | fact that same ads are played in different TV shows.
           | 
           | Suppose you record hundreds or thousands of hours of TV
           | video/audio, then compare it to your program guide data.
           | 
           | In theory, you should be able to detect that some segments of
           | the video/audio correlate very strongly with what show you're
           | watching (occurring only there), whereas other segments of
           | video/audio appear all over the place in different programs.
           | 
           | And use fingerprinting to avoid having to store/transmit all
           | that video/audio data.
           | 
           | This is not that different from what Shazam does with music
           | recognition, although their job is easier because their audio
           | data is naturally segmented into songs, whereas for ad
           | detection you have to find segments. But I bet there are
           | algorithms to efficiently find common sub-sequences (maybe
           | from DNA bioinformatics?).
           | 
           | Once you have fingerprints of commercials, you distribute a
           | database of these to viewers, and their device uses it to
           | detect commercials while watching.
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | For programs that air more than once, you could invert this
           | and look for segments of video/audio that are common between
           | the airings. The rest is more likely to be commercials,
           | especially if you've got a movie that airs on different
           | networks.
           | 
           | Or if you can see a show/movie through on-demand, maybe
           | you'll get different commercials on repeated viewings.
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | Another approach is facial recognition. If you see Flo from
           | Progressive, it's probably an ad. You can maybe even
           | recognize new, unknown ads this way.
           | 
           | If you want to go really crazy, mine IMDB for TV/movie
           | titles, the cast that appear in each, and their photos, then
           | recognize non-ad video footage based on who you know is
           | supposed to be in that episode.
        
           | rcarmo wrote:
           | I think Douglas Adams wrote about something very much like
           | that, but I can't place it. Maybe it was Philip K. Dick?
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | > based on the rise in ampltitude
           | 
           | The apparent rise in amplitude is horribly annoying; but I
           | understand that _actually_ increasing the volume during ad-
           | breaks is forbidden (at least in the UK). Instead, they
           | tailor the audio spectrum to create psycho-acoustically the
           | _impression_ of increased loudness.
           | 
           | Automated ad-filtering on broadcast TV seems to be a hard
           | problem. Some filters look for the channel logo screen at the
           | start and end of the ad-break; but (a) you have to set up
           | each channel; (b) "sponsors" now book slots at the start and
           | end of the break, before and after the channel-logo screen.
           | 
           | The best solution I've found is to record anything I want to
           | watch in advance; then to skip forward 5 minutes when the
           | break starts, and FF/RW if I land in the wrong place. I'm a
           | bit surprised that so many people seem to be buying big-
           | screen TVs, but apparently not STBs with hard-disk recorders.
        
             | plasticchris wrote:
             | I used to have a DVR that would auto skip commercials on
             | recorded shows but that was probably using metadata. It was
             | annoying that it didn't do the same live.
        
           | williamtrask wrote:
           | This is a really nice federated learning usecase. I work with
           | an open source FL community. Will add it to the list.
        
         | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
         | How do you know when the ads are finished so you can unmute?
        
           | Lev1a wrote:
           | Sometimes the ads are interrupted by a TV show or a movie.
        
             | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
             | Which means you either need to pay active attention to the
             | muted ads--something that sounds worse than having them on
             | in the background, imo--or you run a risk of missing part
             | of whatever film/tv show you're watching--again, I'd rather
             | just make the sacrifice of having the ads on and not paying
             | attention to them.
        
         | emodendroket wrote:
         | How will I know the game's back on if I do that?
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | As long as you don't check your phone you could use a TiVo-
           | ish delay, so you could just jump over the ads and continue
        
             | emodendroket wrote:
             | Given how many ads there are that'd have to be a pretty
             | substantial delay
        
         | adrianmonk wrote:
         | I haven't done it my entire life. When I was a kid, TVs didn't
         | have mute buttons or remote controls.
         | 
         | Therefore, I got very good at mentally tuning ads out. I can
         | watch an ad 100 times yet not be able to tell you what they
         | said, what happened in it, or what product it's for.
         | 
         | Sometimes I mute now, but only when the ad is top 10% annoying.
         | It's often easier to just tune out the ads than to remember to
         | unmute.
        
           | earthboundkid wrote:
           | I think to be a mute-ant you had to come of age in the
           | 80s/90s after the remote and cable but before DVR and
           | steaming. My wife didn't have cable so can't mute to save her
           | life.
        
         | chaircher wrote:
         | My grandad used to do this! I thought he was the only one.
         | 
         | My mother had a really obnoxious attitude towards the
         | television. Probably because of this I don't have a TV at all
         | and am always suprised by the amount of people who immediately
         | notice when they visit my house.
        
         | thanatos519 wrote:
         | I had no broadcast TV for 25 years until a few years ago.
         | Whenever I encountered TV watchers, I was also amazed that they
         | didn't mute ads, but I still found the interruption extremely
         | irritating.
         | 
         | Now, here in The Netherlands with my KPN TV-over-fiber
         | connection, I can skip around in a show, but I can't skip over
         | ads on many channels. The device sometimes doesn't even let me
         | mute during an ad! I can independently mute or switch video
         | inputs, so it's basically forcing me to either hear or see an
         | ad.
         | 
         | I pay about the same for Netflix. So obnoxious.
        
         | meheleventyone wrote:
         | 90% of active ad watching in the US is probably from tourists
         | watching with morbid fascination. I know it's one of the things
         | I do when bored in a hotel room.
        
           | vachina wrote:
           | Haha you're not wrong. SlingTV is chock full of ads but
           | sometimes I just sit through them because they're like a lens
           | into American domestic culture.
        
           | ncpa-cpl wrote:
           | I'm probably one of them. Sometimes when I'm very bored I
           | spend some minutes watching the ads from foreign channels.
           | Every country does them slightly different.
        
           | cookie_monsta wrote:
           | I'm so glad this isn't just me. I especially enjoy the
           | disclaimers at the end of pharmaceutical ads.
        
             | Lev1a wrote:
             | I wonder if it's the same as in German pharma ads, which
             | end with a grey screen with the following text in white
             | font:
             | 
             | "Zu Risiken und Nebenwirkungen fragen Sie Ihren Arzt oder
             | Apotheker."
             | 
             | which translates to:
             | 
             | "Concerning risks and side effects please ask your doctor
             | or pharmacist."
        
               | cookie_monsta wrote:
               | Oh, no these things are hilarious. They actually name all
               | the possible individual side effects (some of which sound
               | much worse than the original condition) but it's done in
               | a voiceover that's played at like 2x the original speed.
        
               | Lev1a wrote:
               | Oh wow, that's really just unnecessary.
        
               | lolinder wrote:
               | It's basically the same as cookie banners: regulators
               | said they had to, so they comply in the most obnoxious
               | and least helpful way possible.
        
               | rolph wrote:
               | we need a classification such as Malignant Compliance.
        
               | buu700 wrote:
               | And they inevitably end with "or death". I'm guessing
               | they choose to list every vaguely possible side effect
               | for CYA purposes, while simultaneously obscuring the
               | actual risk profile by withholding information on the
               | frequency of any given side effect.
               | 
               | It's like pestering users with alerts. After a certain
               | point, you can't really blame someone for tuning them out
               | and just clicking OK.
        
               | tomcatfish wrote:
               | No, amusingly, it's a regulation thing. Health products
               | are urged to list all negative outcomes seen in the
               | experimental group, which can lead to some amusing
               | outcomes
               | 
               | https://metro.co.uk/2020/12/18/covid-vaccine-volunteer-
               | struc...
               | 
               | (Hard to find a nice source for this because there's a
               | metaphor going around now about covid vaccines and
               | lightning, but I saw it around more at the time. If
               | anyone is better at search engines with date filtering or
               | has a super reputable link, please share it below)
        
       | m4tthumphrey wrote:
       | I don't think I watch anything that even has TV ads anymore. Live
       | sports probably are the only thing.
       | 
       | Netflix
       | 
       | Plex
       | 
       | Prime
       | 
       | Disney Plus
       | 
       | YouTube (I guess they have ads but not the same)
       | 
       | Mobile game ads on the other hand... Urgh.
        
         | listenallyall wrote:
         | It's not a flex when you "avoid ads" (which you don't, what are
         | the Netflix/Prime/Disney etc home pages except ads for more tv
         | consumption) by committing to $60 per month of streaming.
        
           | cookie_monsta wrote:
           | Sure it's a flex. Avoiding ads isn't about saving money, it's
           | about not having vacuous nonsense pumped into your brain
           | uninvited.
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | I rather like previews/trailers as long as there aren't too
           | many of them.
           | 
           | Paying to avoid ads and get more interesting programming
           | seems like a perfectly valid flex. I'd probably do it more
           | broadly if I could. Content costs money to produce. Someone
           | has to pay for it somehow. And I pay less for streaming today
           | than I paid for my cable TV subscription.
        
       | emodendroket wrote:
       | Can't help but notice that as soon as Web advertising made it
       | feasible to see how much advertising led directly to purchase
       | rates plummeted.
        
         | bruce343434 wrote:
         | In that sentence, What's the subject of the verb "plummeted"?
         | Is "purchase rates" both acting as an object and a subject? I'm
         | confused and can't parse your comment.
        
           | everythingctl wrote:
           | s/purchase/purchase,/
        
           | emodendroket wrote:
           | "rates"
           | 
           | i.e., Once advertisers could measure how effective their ads
           | were, they were no longer willing to pay as much
        
       | endymi0n wrote:
       | So what? 99% of print ads go to trashcans unread. That's factored
       | in by everyone buying those as well.
       | 
       | If anything the numbers should be "better" for TV these days: As
       | when I was a kid, ad breaks were toilet and toothbrush breaks and
       | I barely watched through any of them. These days modern midrolls
       | are designed to be too short for that, but just long enough to be
       | bearable.
        
       | allenu wrote:
       | I often sit through ads when watching sports on TV because I
       | can't be bothered to reach for the remote to mute it. However,
       | when I watch YouTube on my phone, I instantly mute the device and
       | look away as soon as an ad plays. After a few seconds I look back
       | at the device so I can hit the skip button. It always seems like
       | a waste of bandwidth for them to play ads to me, but I assume my
       | behavior isn't in the majority.
        
         | tifik wrote:
         | I stopped using the YT app and just use the website with ublock
         | origin enabled. Didnt see a YT ad in years.
         | 
         | Edit: typo
        
           | freeflight wrote:
           | I like watching YouTube stuff on my iPad to fall asleep, but
           | at times the ads can make that real difficult, and I have yet
           | to find a way to block them on the tablet.
           | 
           | PiHole allegedly helps with that, but afaik PiHole is only a
           | DNS blacklister, and I already have blocked Google adservers
           | troguh my router, tho that does not seem to help with ads in
           | the YouTube mobile/tablet app.
        
             | ComradePhil wrote:
             | YouTube premium is $12 per month. If there is one
             | subscription worth getting, it is definitely this.
        
             | aceki wrote:
             | I know AdGuard[0] claims to have the ability of blocking
             | YouTube ads in Safari, but I also believe it's behind an
             | IAP. Alternatively, an Invidious instance[1] will play
             | videos without ads. It doesn't work for music videos
             | (thanks DRM!), and I believe you have to set the video
             | quality to DASH in Invidious's settings for Safari to be
             | able to play it. Not as convenient as YouTube, sure, but if
             | you hate ads enough I think it's worth it.
             | 
             | [0] https://apps.apple.com/us/app/adguard-adblock-
             | privacy/id1047...
             | 
             | [1] https://redirect.invidious.io
        
             | perryizgr8 wrote:
             | Youtube vanced works well for blocking ads. But you need an
             | android device.
        
             | christophilus wrote:
             | Brave on iOS blocks YT ads.
        
               | waffle_maniac wrote:
               | I think Brave blocks YT ads on all platforms?
        
           | withinboredom wrote:
           | I've been bored and started using my phone a few times. As
           | soon as an ad starts. I stop the app, start it again. Or just
           | watch it in the thumbnail with cc.
        
         | theGeatZhopa wrote:
         | I use YouTube not as app, but in the browser on my mobile.
         | There I have an AdBlock Plugin setup.
         | 
         | Without that YouTube is unusable for me anymore. It's not about
         | the video ads at all. Ads are part of the modern design of
         | YouTube and are difficult to differentiate from, f.e. the
         | comments, which are hidden by default - wtf?
        
           | nelblu wrote:
           | https://newpipe.net/
        
         | nirui wrote:
         | Man that sounded like a lots of work for watching YouTube.
         | 
         | I watch YouTube usually because I have something else to do,
         | and I needed something to make a sound + be my timer. If an ad
         | starts to play, it will not effect my main task. 5 or 10
         | seconds later the Skip button displays, I click/tap on it and
         | continue my task, and the ad will be forgotten almost
         | instantly.
         | 
         | I don't think those ad makers knows how ads actually work: you
         | only have certain amount of seconds to convert a client. After
         | that, the ad will be forgotten. People who interested in your
         | product will sign on after few encounters with the ad. And for
         | those who didn't sign on, they don't care and pushing more ads
         | will simply annoy them and makes them hate your product.
         | 
         | For example, those 5 seconds TikTok ads are low quality and
         | extremely annoying (, making me believe that ByteDance is using
         | the strategy to downgrade the user experience of YouTube. Very
         | clever indeed), I'll never sign on no matter how many times it
         | plays.
         | 
         | For me personally, I like to take my time to read the detail
         | about a product, those video ads just can't cut it. The text +
         | picture based ads displayed by Reddit catches me better.
        
         | i67vw3 wrote:
         | You can use newpipe, youtube vanced or youtube in a browser
         | with adblock turned ON.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | lukeholder wrote:
       | I have always felt that legacy media; the TV, Magazines,
       | Newspapers had massively over-stated eyeball numbers.
        
         | pishpash wrote:
         | Which begs the question, have advertisers ever actually
         | measured effect scientifically, and whether the arms race of
         | acquiring eyeballs for no net position change will collapse.
        
           | withinboredom wrote:
           | I've worked places that have paused ads for a few months to
           | see what happens only to see nothing happen and stop their
           | advertising spend. In both those places, revenue started
           | declining within a year. So I imagine advertising has such a
           | delayed effect that it's unmeasurable.
        
           | spullara wrote:
           | Not until now, which is why Facebook was making so much money
           | before they got kneecapped.
        
           | shiftpgdn wrote:
           | Half my advertising spend is wasted; the trouble is, I don't
           | know which half.
        
             | derefr wrote:
             | Then take half of your advertising spend and redirect it
             | into market research. (I.e. add on the bottom of your
             | purchase receipts, email marketing blasts, etc, something
             | like "$10 coupon if you tell us something about yourself";
             | where "something about yourself" = "which if any of these
             | advertising campaigns did you actually see.")
        
             | onion2k wrote:
             | I think that's a clever quip made by a man who just wanted
             | to keep his marketing budget without being asked to justify
             | what he spent it on.
        
               | shiftpgdn wrote:
               | It's repeated often enough I think it's well grounded in
               | reality.
        
               | onion2k wrote:
               | Clever quotes are often repeated. That doesn't make them
               | true _for every context_ though.
               | 
               | When John Wanamaker said what he said I think he was
               | talking about print ads for department stores in an era
               | before ad metrics, large scale market research, etc. It
               | was probably true then to be fair, but that doesn't make
               | it useful now, or applicable to all advertising. For
               | example, if I used this quote when I was talking about
               | Internet adverts I'd just be wrong. It's trivial to track
               | the effectiveness of an online ad
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | A lot of tech people have this rather Dilbert-esque view
               | of marketing. In practice any halfway sophisticated
               | marketing/advertising/paid search/etc. is a lot more
               | quantitative and data-driven than they probably think.
        
               | jessaustin wrote:
               | I sort of admire marketers. They get so passionate about
               | it! I can barely muster that sort of excitement for
               | actually interesting topics.
        
               | listenallyall wrote:
               | For items/services purchased online. Offline, not so
               | much.
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | You can put a phone number on your infomercial and measure
           | how many calls / conversions you get from people calling that
           | number shortly after the ad plays.
        
             | kerneloftruth wrote:
             | That's what "promo codes" are all about, too. Direct
             | feedback as to which ads worked.
        
       | fortyseven wrote:
       | Oh no.
        
       | COil wrote:
       | Not only empty rooms, but also without sound.
        
       | beepbooptheory wrote:
       | Often put on various Cat TV channels from YouTube on before
       | leaving for work. They are usually like 8 hour long shots of
       | birds and squirrels eating nuts someone left on log, the cats
       | love it and will watch diligently. They are monetized channels
       | often enough, and its just funny to me knowing that every once in
       | a while the cats, who are otherwise alone in the house, are being
       | treated to a commercial for some sports betting service, or for
       | profit college experience. This entire edifice of targeted ads
       | being directed to two cats who suddenly experience a very human
       | moment in this absurd context. Can't help but feel like they
       | sense it, that they are suddenly interpolated into this thing,
       | subjects to the streams of money and incentived attention.
       | brought down into our inferior world of commodities and money.
       | Have been close to getting the premium YouTube just for their
       | sake, and of course for the sake of the nice people making the
       | videos.
        
         | rvba wrote:
         | As much as I like cats, this is incredibly wasteful for the
         | whole world - lots of carbon footprint.
         | 
         | Cant you just buy some other toys for your cats?
        
         | mastax wrote:
         | Last I checked YouTube premium doesn't pay out for your views
         | like ads do. It goes into a single pot that is split amongst
         | creators based on their views or ad revenue (can't remember).
        
           | andrewxdiamond wrote:
           | Premium views pay out part of your subscription to the
           | creator you watched. A normal ad view is worth fractions of a
           | fraction of a penny, but YouTube premium views pay out much
           | more.
        
             | srg0 wrote:
             | That's interesting. Do you have an idea what fraction of
             | the YouTube premium fee goes to the content creators?
        
           | sfe22 wrote:
           | Cant be ad revenue, it would be stupid. But going into a pot
           | Spotify style is also evil and not fair.
        
             | thrownblown wrote:
             | Your monthly subscription fee minus a little off the top is
             | split by your watch time amongst those you watch.
        
               | mastax wrote:
               | > Currently, new revenue from YouTube Premium membership
               | fees is distributed to video creators based on how much
               | members watch your content. As with our advertising
               | business, most of the revenue will go to creators
               | 
               | https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6306276?hl=en#z
               | ipp...
               | 
               | It's pretty vague, but my reading of this is that it's
               | paid out of a single pool based on the watch time of all
               | YouTube Premium Members. So e.g. if you only watch one
               | video a month, that creator doesn't get all of your
               | money.
        
         | sixstringtheory wrote:
         | Turns out Scrooged was visionary in more ways than I thought!
         | https://youtu.be/0Oa5yEq2qvM?t=30s
        
       | jameshart wrote:
       | I mean, with broadcast TV, ads play regardless, and they play to
       | everyone - to receivers that aren't even turned on, or are tuned
       | to a different channel. That seems little different to having the
       | ad make it through but only to a TV in an empty room to me.
        
       | Borrible wrote:
       | Yes, but compare that with the two-thirds TV content that is
       | empty.
       | 
       | If the commercials were of better quality (script, directing and
       | so on), the problem would solve itself.
        
       | drewcoo wrote:
       | Isn't that why they're so loud? At least I assume they still are.
        
         | andhuman wrote:
         | Exactly, this isn't really news to the media companies.
        
       | barrystaes wrote:
       | Shit, they found out?
        
       | jurmous wrote:
       | It is always funny to see how watching TV can be so differently
       | culturally. With my Spanish in-law family the TV is on almost the
       | whole day in the background, even during big family dinners as
       | background sound. With often news, sports or game shows. With
       | their late dinner times of 9pm they often watch series and movies
       | even later. And here in the Netherlands it is with many a sin to
       | have the TV on in the background if there are visitors and should
       | only be on if you watch something together.
        
         | kerneloftruth wrote:
         | I use TVs as though they're aquariums... on for background
         | ambience, and an audio-visual "optional distraction". I mostly
         | keep it on Turner classic movies as they have no ads. I'm more
         | likely to be interested, or at least pleased, by whatever I
         | happen to engage with.
        
         | brnt wrote:
         | I think it's generational. My Dutch parents also have the TV on
         | all evening (although, much less so since retirement). I would
         | always make sure the first thing I did was mute the thing when
         | I visit, because I simply can't have a conversation with a TV
         | shouting over everything.
         | 
         | My generation, few even have a TV. We're one of the few with
         | one in the living room (hooked up to a laptop though), and I
         | think I haven't turned it on in a month now?
        
           | bojan wrote:
           | Agree for the generational thing. At my dad's place the TV is
           | always on, at ours only if we're watching something.
           | 
           | But if you don't turn your TV on at all, I have to ask -
           | where do you watch Netflix et al? Or you simply don't?
        
             | Fnoord wrote:
             | Netflix on smartphone, second monitor, and my daughter
             | watches it on TV (via an Nvidia Shield TV so arguable a
             | computer).
        
             | brnt wrote:
             | We've a laptop in our bedroom, which is very intentionally
             | a small screen. It's pretty variable how much we watch
             | there.
        
             | mantas wrote:
             | I watch movies pretty much only at local film festivals.
             | Pre-corona it was 2-3 movies twice a year since my city has
             | sweet spring and late fall festivals. During corona
             | festivals moved online and I watched a movie from each
             | festival on laptop. Hopefully masks-in-cinemas will be over
             | by the time spring festival rolls in!
             | 
             | Last series I followed was Breaking Bad. Used to torrent it
             | and watch on laptop screen.
        
             | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
             | I think it's just a semantic thing. Everyone watches TV,
             | but a subset likes to describe themselves as not
             | having/watching TV on an extremely pedantic technicality.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I don't have "TV" in the sense that I can't watch e.g.
               | live sports. But I have a couple large screens in the
               | house that I can use to stream e.g. Netflix (or I can
               | just watch it on a tablet or PC). I'm not sure it's
               | really that pedantic. "No I won't be watching the game
               | because I don't have TV." (Though if you had YouTube TV,
               | that's getting into pedantic territory.)
        
               | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
               | Right, if your response to "are you watching the game?"
               | is "no, I can't watch it", fair enough. My scorn is more
               | reserved for people who willingly volunteer the "I don't
               | have a TV" information as some kind of 'badge of honour',
               | yet they watch five hours of Netflix on their laptop
               | every evening.
        
               | edgyquant wrote:
               | Especially when they do have a TV. In the Us at least TV
               | refers to those large screens the broadcast system is
               | referred to as cable or satellite, which it is true very
               | few people have these days.
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | Oh I agree. For me it was a purely financial decision of
               | "Should I keep paying $100/month for this service I
               | haven't used in weeks or should I put some of it towards
               | another streaming service or two?" And, while I'd like to
               | have it every now and then for live sports, that's not
               | worth $1000/year to me.
        
               | the_lonely_road wrote:
               | Is the difference between making a website using
               | Wordpress and building one using React/Node etc just a
               | pedantic technicality on account of both groups building
               | websites? No of course not, they are two very different
               | processes that are only tangentially related.
               | 
               | I watch tv shows on streaming services with no
               | commercials, on demand when I want to, and only when it's
               | an 'event' where we plan to focus on the story being
               | delivered. My father watches broadcast television,
               | flipping channels regularly, leaves the commercials on
               | half the time, and always has the tv blaring in the
               | background the entire time we are at his house even for
               | hours at a time and during a holiday gathering.
               | 
               | You can be negative and try to classify the difference
               | between us as a pedantic technicality or you can join the
               | conversation about this interesting and seemingly
               | generational difference in what it means to "watch tv".
        
               | nunez wrote:
               | lol @ "everyone"
               | 
               | i don't watch TV on my own accord. usually with my wife
               | (when she wants to watch something) or when i'm forced to
               | while at a bar or restaurant (many bars, especially
               | around here in southwest Texas, have MANY TVs, almost all
               | of them tuned to some variant of sportsball). when i
               | travel by myself, the tv in the hotel room never turns
               | on, for example.
               | 
               | sorry if this comes off as me being vain; I never tell
               | anyone and having a soapbox to finally talk about it is
               | awesome!
               | 
               | i've only been to Europe once so far (Barcelona) and
               | restaurants and bars without TV was one of my favorite
               | things ever. this experience only exists in big cities.
               | 
               | however, netflix, hulu, and youtube premium probably
               | think differently of me lol (i pay for these services but
               | my wife consumes them)
        
               | lariati wrote:
               | I am 50 and have never owned a television myself.
               | 
               | I have never had a Netflix account.
               | 
               | At this point, I have been offered pretty nice TVs for
               | free more than once.
               | 
               | If you really get use to living without a TV though it
               | feels like it has negative value to have one IMO. Even
               | more now with Netflix and long binge watch series with
               | disappointing endings.
               | 
               | Of course, I don't get to participate in the
               | conversations about how much show X ending sucked after
               | wasting a week of my life on it.
        
               | vlunkr wrote:
               | Forgive me if I put no stock in your opinions on tv
               | quality when you don't watch any.
        
               | klyrs wrote:
               | Before I had a smartphone and a TV, I was much more
               | physically active and got a lot more done on hobby
               | projects. The 'quality' of TV programming is inarguable;
               | if that's a net positive is debatable. The quality of
               | carfentanyl is _amazing_ , from what I hear...
        
               | asiachick wrote:
               | Owning a "TV" is really irrelevant. I know plenty of
               | people that only own a iPhone. Yet they watch hours of
               | Netflix, AppleTV, YouTube on it.
               | 
               | If you don't watch anything on whatever you're using to
               | post your messages to HN then fine but if you do then
               | you're still "watching TV" for all intents and purposes.
        
               | frosted-flakes wrote:
               | Have you ever watched a YouTube video?
        
               | paulryanrogers wrote:
               | Curious how you fill your time without TV. Also, do you
               | consider others to be wasting their time for making a
               | different choice?
        
               | nunez wrote:
               | not the OP, but I ride my bike (indoors or outdoors,
               | mostly indoors now because riding outdoors around here is
               | dangerous, even for me), lift weights, read Reddit (my
               | front page is super curated; mostly niche subs, none of
               | the huge ones), go to breweries/bars/restaurants, find
               | things to do in the city, code, and write on my blog.
               | 
               | i do think that TV is fine in moderation like everything
               | else, but, like social media and video games,
               | overconsumption is socially normalized. putting off work
               | and keeping yourself healthy for shows or endless
               | scrolling isn't okay IMO.
        
               | brnt wrote:
               | He he, the only reason I have a TV in the first place
               | (plus two in storage) is because my dad keeps replacing
               | his (because of some tiny new feature) and I find it a
               | waste to throw out a perfectly good panel.
        
               | barrkel wrote:
               | TV is changing meaning.
               | 
               | It used to be synchronous broadcast on a schedule, on a
               | channel chosen from a small selection. If you watched TV,
               | you could be reasonably expected to talk about the thing
               | that was on last night.
               | 
               | With on demand, scheduled releases etc. it's much less
               | well defined. If you only watch movies on Netflix, it's
               | probably not "TV" as a cultural artifact, but if you're
               | watching the latest Star Wars or Marvel series on Disney,
               | then probably you are, despite there being little
               | difference in technology.
        
               | mantas wrote:
               | If I listen to podcast videos (in car or video hidden),
               | do I still watch TV or listen to radio? And if those are
               | niche podcasts that wouldn't make it to broadcast
               | services.
        
               | brnt wrote:
               | There's TV the device and TV the specific way and content
               | to watch. Of friends our age, precisely zero have the
               | latter. The device about half have I think. Which is very
               | different from our parents generation, where everyone has
               | both.
        
               | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
               | Yeah, maybe I'm closer to your parents' generation, maybe
               | broadcast TV is still better enough in the UK that it's
               | worth watching -- I still do. Obviously, I recognise your
               | point about younger people watching less broadcast.
        
               | tialaramex wrote:
               | Where is the "pedantic technicality" though? Looks more
               | like a _continuum_ to me.
               | 
               | Consider, here are some activities I do, which of them
               | are you sure is "watching TV" and which aren't? Is it
               | such a clear bright line?
               | 
               | * I watch "Only Connect" - a very difficult BBC Two quiz
               | show - on the iPlayer web site. There aren't any adverts
               | of course because it's the BBC, but this was made to be
               | shown on a broadcast TV channel even if I haven't watched
               | it that way for years.
               | 
               | * I watch the Two Ronnies "Mastermind" sketch on Youtube.
               | Once again this was made to be shown on broadcast TV,
               | decades ago, as part of an episodic show - but now this
               | is just one sketch
               | 
               | * I re-watch the final sale decision scene from The Big
               | Short on Youtube. The Big Short is a movie, this was
               | never made for broadcast TV, and all I'm watching is one
               | clip from a much longer work.
               | 
               | * I watch previews of a friend's review of the entire
               | Nightmare on Elm Street franchise. Most of these were
               | movies. (but there is a TV series) and he doesn't include
               | clips but he does talk about them. This will eventually
               | be a Youtube video, but I'm watching the preview.
               | 
               | * I watch an SC2 AI Arena playback of a match that
               | happened recently between two AIs. It's video, at least
               | by the time it reaches me, but it was never intended to
               | be broadcast anywhere, many of these videos are never
               | watched by anyone they're generated automatically so why
               | not.
               | 
               | * I play a video game with an FMV cut scene, such as
               | Command & Conquer: Red Alert.
               | 
               | * I play another video game with a cut scene but it's in-
               | engine using the game's 3D assets, such as GTA3.
               | 
               | * I join a Teams call with colleagues to discuss progress
               | on our main Project
               | 
               | * I watch a rather hypnotic screensaver of overlapping
               | fractal shapes.
               | 
               | * I read a web page with some simple animated multi-step
               | tutorials. Is it important whether they're animated with
               | Javascript, GIFs or MPEG video?
               | 
               | * I read this comment on Hacker News.
        
               | oneeyedpigeon wrote:
               | I guess the specific "pedantic technicality" I was
               | thinking of was the "I watch Netflix on a big screen in
               | the corner of my room, but I don't have TV". I get why,
               | in a very limited number of scenarios, that might be
               | useful or interesting information, but a huge amount of
               | the time it isn't.
        
               | chalupaman wrote:
               | See, I think the pedantic technicality is the other way
               | around -- that is, saying "Well you're watching this
               | movie on Netflix on a big screen, so that counts as TV."
               | It feels a bit like mocking someone for claiming that the
               | New York Times isn't a novel when they're both things you
               | read off folded paper in your living room. When people
               | say that watching Netflix on a big screen in the corner
               | of their room isn't TV, they're using 'TV' to refer to a
               | medium defined by a fixed programme of highly-scheduled
               | and localized broadcasts. I think that's a much more
               | useful definition than "TV is what you watch on a big
               | screen in your room", because that medium has very unique
               | and distinct features, frequently contains very different
               | types of content, shapes its content differently, and is
               | often consumed very differently. Why isn't going to the
               | movies or playing Charlie Got My Finger on your phone
               | counted as watching TV? Is it the screen size? The
               | location? Or the difference between playing a specific
               | video you've requested and tuning into a schedule of
               | programs being broadcast to the entire region?
        
               | ghaff wrote:
               | I agree with that. Watching YouTube TV on your phone
               | feels a lot closer to watching TV than playing streaming
               | or DVD movies on a big screen.
        
               | tonguez wrote:
               | "Everyone watches TV"
               | 
               | No
        
               | kelseyfrog wrote:
               | It's amazing how normalized tv watching is for some
               | people. It's as expected as the sun rising or setting. My
               | kid broke the family tv out of anger 4-5 years ago. We
               | simply never replaced it as a natural consequence. We
               | also stopped watching broadcast television sometime
               | shortly after Lost's imfamously poor ending.
               | 
               | There are some situations where I come in contact with
               | televisions today. They make me feel frustrated because
               | they sap away my attention. I read more, I do hobbies,
               | and I spend more time with people and have better
               | relationships. It feels like an easy trade-off.
        
               | nunez wrote:
               | i've gotten scolded by my parents for not wanting to
               | watch TV with them. my dad and siblings usually insisted
               | on having the TV on while eating dinner, much to my mom's
               | frustration.
               | 
               | i remember one time specifically when my family was all
               | watching "House" (super popular TV show on FOX back in
               | 2004-ish?). I think I wanted to use my laptop or
               | something; don't remember. My parents got really mad at
               | me, insisting that I watch with them. Ended up doing so,
               | begrudgingly. I get why they did that (family time) but I
               | didn't like that our family time was spent in front of a
               | screen.
               | 
               | > There are some situations where I come in contact with
               | televisions today. They make me feel frustrated because
               | they sap away my attention.
               | 
               | YES! I can hate watching TV and be angrily fixated on it
               | when at a bar at the same time. My wife doesn't get it
               | lol
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | Sorry, I find this funny though I can relate. Not wanting
               | to spend "family time" in front of a screen when your
               | preferred alternative is to work/play in front of a
               | screen.
        
             | TacticalCoder wrote:
             | > But if you don't turn your TV on at all, I have to ask -
             | where do you watch Netflix et al? Or you simply don't?
             | 
             | Don't even own a TV. I own a projector / home cinema. I
             | think it beats the shit out of a TV big times. I much
             | prefer the "feel" of a projector compared to these 4K TVs
             | or whatnots. When we turn the projector on, it's to really
             | watch something, not as background noise.
        
               | distances wrote:
               | Same for me, but it's still in the continuum of TV
               | watching like the other person said. I don't have TV the
               | device, or broadcast receiving capability, but I still
               | watch TV shows not that much unlike the normal definition
               | of TV use.
        
             | sdpy wrote:
             | > But if you don't turn your TV on at all, I have to ask -
             | where do you watch Netflix et al?
             | 
             | I watch video content on my 15.6" laptop with a retina
             | display. The picture is subjectively larger, brighter, and
             | sharper than on a TV because it's closer to my eyes. It's
             | like in a movie theater but with lots of privacy. So I
             | prefer it this way. I would turn on a TV only if I'd want
             | to watch something with another person, I guess.
        
           | nefitty wrote:
           | I'm 30 and have a tv and Bluetooth speaker in every room.
           | Both me and my wife get anxious in silence. We do retreat to
           | the bedroom if we need silence though. Our puppy seemed to
           | have figured out the same... We used to think she did it when
           | she was sick, but it became a pattern and seems to be her way
           | to tune out the world.
           | 
           | The best way I can describe the effect of silence is like
           | what brains do in extreme sensory deprivation: they begin
           | imagining and hallucinating external stimulus. Silence makes
           | my internal stream of consciousness stark. It is severe to
           | the point of causing me decades of insomnia. As soon as I lay
           | in bed, if I don't have white noise or otherwise, the
           | recursive nature of my thoughts spirals immediately into
           | existential panic.
           | 
           | Anyways, I love TV.
        
             | crehn wrote:
             | Depending on TVs to save you from existential panic doesn't
             | seem like a sustainable solution.
        
               | nefitty wrote:
               | If you have a sustainable solution to provide you'll be
               | rich. I default to squelching thoughts of my mortality.
               | That is at the top of the list of mental frames that have
               | improved my life. I otherwise lived in constant
               | existential panic from the ages of 12 to 25. Thanks a lot
               | Nietzsche...
        
               | tyfon wrote:
               | I had the same issue I think, struggled with it up to
               | around 25 when a doctor asked me to try melatonin.
               | 
               | It actually changed my life, now I can sleep and be like
               | a normal person. I used to joke that I was a C-type
               | person (instead of A/B) when it comes to sleep.
        
               | ungamed wrote:
               | Active stoicism worked for me. I think only ryan holiday
               | is getting rich from it though.
        
               | geraldwhen wrote:
               | Have you tried psilocybin? The dissociative state could
               | help you realize that are more than your ego.
               | 
               | You are not one but many, and the ego is truly the only
               | thing that dies in death we fear.
        
               | nefitty wrote:
               | Several trips. Microdosing for weeks. It helped me
               | understand Alan Watts. No real impact on the existential
               | terror thing.
        
               | achenet wrote:
               | You may want to experiment with your diet.
               | 
               | I have a thing where I get weird anxiety ~18hr after I
               | eat pasta, maybe you get something similar.
               | 
               | If your anxeity has a biological cause (ie excess
               | cortisol or something), then modulating what you put into
               | your body may help.
               | 
               | Or maybe you just need to accept that every moment might
               | be your last and try to enjoy it. :)
        
               | nprateem wrote:
               | Meditation
        
               | nefitty wrote:
               | I thought so too. I have at least 150 hrs of meditation
               | under my belt. I can't say I'm worse or better, just
               | another silly thing for my ego to carry around.
               | 
               | Take it from me. Ignoring your mortality is a lot easier.
        
               | 3np wrote:
               | 150 hours over how long time? Those who aren't "naturals"
               | may need more than that to "get it" and start seeing
               | benefits (coming from someone who after several attempts
               | in various forms finally "broke through", in lack of
               | better words, on day ~6 of a 10 day Goenka-Vipassana
               | retreat. That'd be ~10 h / day during that time).
               | 
               | After that I was able to do 30-60 minute sittings at home
               | and experience the associated change. If you're also a
               | very cerebral person you may also need a similarly
               | concentrated "boot camp" or similar to get to some base
               | level.
               | 
               | In a similar vein, if someone has extremely weak
               | physique, it's not really convincing when they claim that
               | physical exercise doesn't work for them, as they did
               | spend 150h at the gym machines ;)
        
               | nefitty wrote:
               | That's a great point. I guess hype made my expectations
               | unrealistic. I have it on my to-do list to get the habit
               | going again. I'll try this weekend!
               | 
               | I've wanted to do a retreat very badly. I would need to
               | work to organize my current world to fit it in but it's
               | something I have in the back of my mind.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | HPsquared wrote:
               | What works for me is negative visualization. Thinking of
               | the worst possible thing that can happen, and how I'd
               | feel in that situation. It's kind of like exposure
               | therapy.
               | 
               | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_visualization
        
             | navjack27 wrote:
             | Try meditating. Learn to let the thoughts wash over you.
        
               | klyrs wrote:
               | That's not always good advice, particularly for folks who
               | experience depression and anxiety...
               | 
               | https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/psychological-
               | medici...
        
             | brnt wrote:
             | I get anxious with noise around, especially TV. My brain
             | generates plenty of stimuli all on its own, no need to add
             | more ;)
        
               | brewdad wrote:
               | I have the opposite problem and need some background
               | noise in order to stay focused. That said, I can't use TV
               | as background noise unless it is something I have zero
               | interest in. The visual component is too distracting, so
               | I tend to use music instead.
               | 
               | Brains are weird.
        
             | bluecatswim wrote:
             | That's funny, I've always hated it when someone turned on
             | the TV or put on some music in the same room as me because
             | it disturbed my inner monologue.
        
               | cameronh90 wrote:
               | My inner monologue is only there to say disturbing
               | things, so it's nice to drown it out.
        
             | pkorzeniewski wrote:
             | I'm in my 30s and I went through the phase of watching a
             | lot of TV as a teen, then not watching at all in my 20s and
             | not owning a TV for many years, and now I'm back at
             | moderately watching TV everyday. There're several pros of
             | TV compared to streaming: you turn it on and there's
             | immediately something playing, if it's not interesting you
             | just change the channel (I hate scrolling through stuff on
             | a streaming service and getting stressed that I can't find
             | anything interesting and just wasting time), there're many
             | movies I would never watch otherwise but sometimes you just
             | leave something on because "there's nothing better to
             | watch" and it turns out to be a great movie, there's also
             | many classic movies and TV series that are hard to find
             | online, even "trash" daytime TV shows sometimes are fun to
             | watch if you just want to "reset" your mind :-)
        
               | nefitty wrote:
               | Yes. I missed putting on the History channel and just
               | letting it run all day and night. Pluto TV made that
               | possible again and it's free. RiffTrax, MST3K, Pluto
               | History, Pluto Science, and on and on. I hat the stress
               | of trying to figure out what to watch on demand.
        
           | alistairSH wrote:
           | Mid-40s, British family, living in the US since the 80s. We
           | had the TV on most afternoons/evenings, lots of evening news,
           | then sitcoms. But, it went off for dinner (as a family at the
           | kitchen table), off for homework, off at bed (and no TV in
           | rooms), and definitely off if guests were visiting (and not
           | there for a big game).
        
           | irrational wrote:
           | It seems to be generational in the USA too. My parents and
           | in-laws have the TV on in the background constantly. We, and
           | our friends, never have it on unless specifically watching
           | something. But, we are on our phones constantly. I feel like
           | we've replaced one background media/entertainment device with
           | a different one.
        
           | grishka wrote:
           | Yeah I feel like it differs by generation in Russia as well.
           | My parents' generation and older would often have either TV
           | or radio on in the background most of the time. My generation
           | mostly considers the mere act of watching broadcast
           | television a sin because of how much propaganda there is and
           | how much more useful content, available on demand, is out
           | there on the internet anyway. Those who do own a TV often use
           | it as a big display for streaming/torrented movies and/or
           | console games, with the antenna cable often not even
           | connected.
        
             | VladimirGolovin wrote:
             | It's the same in my family, with one exception. We
             | sometimes do have TV on in the background, but the only
             | permitted channel is TV Kultura -- news about art, museums,
             | exhibitions, theatre, humanities, arthouse cinema, etc.
        
         | nhoughto wrote:
         | It is interesting to me that TV off is the norm (for me and
         | people I know) except! If there is a live sporting event on
         | that someone cares about, then it would be rude not to have it
         | on and is expected. Weird. Makes no sense at all, humans are
         | weird.
        
         | mongol wrote:
         | Is it cultural? I see those differences within my own family.
        
           | nicoburns wrote:
           | Depending on how you define cultural, it's entirely possible
           | that TV watching culture varies _within_ your family.
        
           | permalac wrote:
           | My family is also Spanish/catalan and the TV is always off,
           | only turned on when seeing something together.
           | 
           | Mi wife family, just some km away, they have the TV on during
           | all they long, it freaks me out. My toddler is the one that
           | shuts it down for them, because he 'can not hear them' if TV
           | is on.
        
           | anthomtb wrote:
           | I spent my entire childhood in the USA. Every friends house
           | seemed to have different TV habits. No TV at all, TV always
           | on, TV on but commercials muted. I don't think it's a
           | cultural phenomenon at all.
        
         | jdkjs wrote:
         | Spaniard here and I confirm. TV always on even at a low volume
         | is a given no matter the circumstances. I think we'd all feel
         | weird if that background noise wasn't there. I've always
         | imagined it's the same everywhere in the world, but perhaps I'm
         | wrong.
        
         | ajsnigrutin wrote:
         | I find the difference most amusing during special events, eg.
         | new years eve, even with similar-ish cultures.
         | 
         | In slovenia, NY eve means a few movies on some channels, maybe
         | even a movie marathon (home alone 1-5, etc.), and on one
         | channel, from about 23h->00:30 the next day/year some "funny"
         | show, with a few songs, a host+guests talking about stuff and a
         | countdown. So basically stuff that you have to watch and listen
         | to in whole.
         | 
         | In serbia for example, the show lasts for 6h+, and it's
         | basically 99.9% music, except for a joke or two inbetween songs
         | and a countdown with happy wishes for new year, and it's
         | designed to be played "in the background", where noone really
         | cares about the show, unless it's a song they really really
         | like and turn the volume even higher. example:
         | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZ9-w8qlpEY
        
         | skerit wrote:
         | I'm from Belgium, I hate it when I'm at a friend and the TV
         | goes on (or someone starts to show a youtube video, lol)
        
           | glogla wrote:
           | Same here. My mother always used to have TV on as a
           | background when I was a kid, but I never had one after I
           | moved out. Now TV a running TV completely destroys my ability
           | to concentrate on anything else and I am also utterly
           | disgusted by all the ads.
        
           | mrspeaker wrote:
           | Oh boy, I dread when someone goes to show me something on
           | their phone! (Here, let me show you a youtube video about it
           | xD https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9EWf-wXQ3o).
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | Back when I would take group trips and maybe have a roommate in
         | a hotel room, one of the things that would annoy me was when
         | they'd make a beeline to the TV and turn it on as background.
         | My brother pretty much does the same thing in his house. It is
         | very rare that I turn a hotel TV on unless there's some
         | specific sports game I want to watch.
        
           | brnt wrote:
           | I would pay extra for hotels offering no TV. I especially
           | dislike it when someone else has it on so loud the walls
           | resonate.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | jtvjan wrote:
         | >And here in the Netherlands it is with many a sin to have the
         | TV on in the background
         | 
         | Yes. Background noise is the radio's job. Why waste energy
         | keeping a panel on if nobody's gonna look at it?
        
           | slim wrote:
           | and the content is fit for this purpose
        
           | Larrikin wrote:
           | As awful and prevalent as TV commercials have become the only
           | thing I can think of with more commercials in between content
           | are YouTube left on in the background and radio.
           | 
           | With YouTube some body decided during the pandemic to cram
           | commercials in the middle of videos now, so music sets are
           | ruined and all comedic timing as well. Anything I plan to
           | watch more than once I use ytdlp because of the huge number
           | of ads they've started cramming in to the start middle and
           | end.
           | 
           | In the car the radio is only bearable if you have atleast
           | three stations in your area that play genres that are
           | enjoyable or you get lucky and you happen to be in the car
           | when a live DJ is on, usually at some point during the rush
           | hour commute or a weekend night.
        
       | citizenpaul wrote:
       | I think this is common knowledge. Its always puzzled me why
       | advertisers expect the unbelievably detailed metrics and proof of
       | effectiveness for online ads and only want to pay pennies. Yet
       | they are happy to toss millions into the void for TV
       | advertisements. I guess since there is no way to know if the ads
       | work its just "we've always done it that way.
        
       | dessant wrote:
       | Some TVs now come with a camera, brace for a camera-based
       | presence detection API to show up in web standards and TV
       | operating systems.
       | 
       | https://electronics.sony.com/tv-video/televisions/all-tvs/p/...
       | 
       | https://electronics.sony.com/tv-video/televisions/television...
        
         | jsrcout wrote:
         | That second one gave me a flashback to childhood. "You're
         | sitting too close to the TV! You'll ruin your eyes!"
         | 
         | > Proximity Alert allows you to set an adequate viewing
         | distance for your child and displays an overlay notification if
         | they get too close to the TV.2
         | 
         | Let's not talk about how strong my glasses prescription is,
         | some decades later lol.
        
         | ComradePhil wrote:
         | If you want a camera for your TV, Xiaomi makes one.
        
           | brnt wrote:
           | > If you want a camera for your TV
           | 
           | I guess large swaths of people never actually read 1984.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | vanilla_nut wrote:
             | I would actually love a good raspberry pi/webcam setup in
             | my living room for comfy video calls. Sadly I don't trust
             | any of the standard commercial offerings (smart tvs are the
             | least trustworthy devices I know; home assistants and
             | Facebook devices don't even count as devices since they're
             | pure spyware).
        
             | ComradePhil wrote:
             | Oh I did.
             | 
             | So you think having a camera on the TV is worse than having
             | a device with a camera and a bunch of others sensors with
             | you at all times?
             | 
             | Orwell couldn't imagine a portable device, so obviously
             | it's the TVs with cameras that are bad... not any of the
             | actual devices used for mass survelliance.
        
               | brnt wrote:
               | What makes you think I think that's worse than a phone?
               | 
               | Being weary of TVs with cameras does not proclude me from
               | beating weary of phones. I very much am.
        
         | saagarjha wrote:
         | Sony amusingly also owns the patent on the famous "Say
         | 'McDonald's' to end commercial" patent:
         | https://patents.google.com/patent/US8246454B2/en
        
         | genewitch wrote:
         | I just did a search for mountain dew | mt dew | mtn dew | xbox
         | patent/meme and i have discovered that the internet is broken.
         | Couldn't find it. Weird, DDG uses bing, so maybe that's why it
         | isn't the first result...
        
           | 8192kjshad09- wrote:
           | I can find it all over, try googling "Please drink a
           | verification can"
        
           | voldacar wrote:
           | the meme, for those who haven't seen it
           | 
           | https://i.imgur.com/dgGvgKF.png
        
             | tomcatfish wrote:
             | God, this dumb post gets me every time. I just really enjoy
             | the imagery in it.
        
         | adrianmonk wrote:
         | There's at least one potentially positive use of that.
         | 
         | In an ideal world, broadcasters would use this data to become
         | aware of which ads are so loathsome that they drive away
         | viewers.
         | 
         | Ad revenue is a win. But if a particular ad (more than others)
         | causes people to leave the room or change channels, the
         | following ads will get less views, and that could be a loss.
         | 
         | If you actually know when that happens, you could charge
         | advertisers extra if their commercials are too annoying. Or
         | just not even air those ads.
        
         | theGeatZhopa wrote:
         | This is truly horrible and dystopian the Sony-Ericsson K800 was
         | the last thing I bought from Sony. Even didn't bought the
         | PlayStation.
         | 
         | They need to go down.
        
           | alpaca128 wrote:
           | It is horrible but definitely not exclusive to Sony.
           | 
           | Microsoft's Kinect, the always-on 3D camera/mic that could
           | have been used to read people's facial expressions while
           | watching ads. I'm glad it failed.
           | 
           | Google speakers which have a microphone array they use to
           | measure the shape and size of your room. Definitely only for
           | acoustic purposes of course...
           | 
           | And some people pay money for that, which makes me fear this
           | might become standard in all kinds of devices. Those things
           | aren't even that great in terms of features. In movies like
           | "I, robot" the machine overlords were at least useful for
           | cooking.
        
         | userbinator wrote:
         | It's like the old Soviet Russia joke. Except, it's not a
         | joke...
        
           | danuker wrote:
           | To anyone curious: search for "Russian reversal"
        
           | Galaxeblaffer wrote:
           | Yes, blame communism, very clever comment.
        
             | nabeelam wrote:
             | That...isn't the point?
             | 
             | See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Soviet_Russia
        
             | Lvl999Noob wrote:
             | The comment isn't blaming communism though. There's a meme
             | that goes like "In the world, <completely normal thing>, In
             | Soviet Russia, <the opposite of it>". So here it would go,
             | "In the world, you watch the TV. In Soviet Russia, the TV
             | watches you." Except that it wouldn't just be in Soviet
             | Russia.
        
               | Sebb767 wrote:
               | Given that Soviet Russia wasn't a technology monopoly, it
               | actually fits better if you turn it around (IMO):
               | 
               | > In Soviet Russia, you watch TV. In modern world, TV
               | watches you.
        
         | IMSAI8080 wrote:
         | Black Mirror. The ads pause if you're not paying attention.
        
           | awestroke wrote:
           | Spotify ads pause if you turn down the volume
        
             | tomsmeding wrote:
             | On the PC, it doesn't notice if you turn down the system
             | volume instead of Spotify volume.
        
             | Sebb767 wrote:
             | Didn't Spotify also have extremely loud ads?
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | matheusmoreira wrote:
           | How long until they start torturing us with loud noise as
           | punishment for having the audacity to ignore our corporate
           | overlords?
        
             | toss1 wrote:
             | They've done that for decades
             | 
             | They increase the volume of the adverts in comparison to
             | the show. Often it is not subtle. Aside from the abysmal
             | and declining information density of TV, it's a key reason
             | I've not had antenna/cable for almost two decades now. The
             | big screen is just a big monitor.
        
               | citizenpaul wrote:
               | Its not increased that has been illegal for a long time.
               | They found a way around it though and of course nothing
               | is being done. Its called dynamic range compression.
               | Basically they cram the entire ad at the maximum legal
               | volume level so it sounds lounder.
        
             | chrisandchris wrote:
             | Well, here in Switzerland, many channels (based on my
             | subjective observations) lower the volume during the movie
             | and increase it during ads.
             | 
             | So it blows you away while ads run and you don't understand
             | any word of the movie.
        
               | pixl97 wrote:
               | _BILLY MAYS HERE_
               | 
               | Don't worry, we also do this in the US.
        
               | conqueso wrote:
               | That was common practice United States as well until it
               | was made illegal around a decade ago with the Commercial
               | Advertisement Loudness Mitigation (CALM) Act. However
               | that only applies to TV and I believe we're now living
               | with the same problem all over again with streaming
               | platforms - when I stream a YouTube video to my TV it
               | definitely seems like the interstitial ads are louder
               | than the content.
        
           | Habgdnv wrote:
           | Black Mirror V2.0 At the end of the 15min break, you must
           | pass a quick exam about the products in the ads if you want
           | to continue watching your sports game.
        
             | encryptluks2 wrote:
             | You must pass an exam by buying the products to prove the
             | propaganda worked
        
           | 0xmohit wrote:
           | The TV places an order if you're paying attention.
        
         | newsbinator wrote:
         | We'll need a pi-hole like device, which does presence-detection
         | to cut off electricity to the TV when you're not in the room,
         | assuming that remains legal.
         | 
         | The other day at midnight I was woken up by an Amber Alert for
         | a somewhat nearby town. It's not possible to disable these
         | notifications in this country, as far as I know.
        
           | gruez wrote:
           | >It's not possible to disable these notifications in this
           | country, as far as I know.
           | 
           | custom ROMs can work around that.
        
           | dessant wrote:
           | I think only presidential alerts are mandatory in most
           | places, you may be able to turn off the alerts that are not
           | important to you.
        
       | rcarmo wrote:
       | I think the advertising industry is well on its way to
       | obsolescence in many ways. I pay zero attention to TV or YouTube
       | commercials (I either skip them or am not watching linear TV in
       | most of the time), adblock everything, and just look for
       | something more interesting the moment I come across an ad.
       | 
       | (and I seldom go back to anything, site, app or TV channel, that
       | doesn't let me skip ads.)
       | 
       | Then again I'm not in the US and am not a football fan (which I
       | suspect is one of the drivers behind the timing of this article),
       | but I believe we now have, worldwide, two entire generations of
       | people who mentally blank out any form of advertising they come
       | across. It just doesn't register unless it's fun or goes viral,
       | and even then people recognize it for the outright manipulation
       | that it really is.
       | 
       | I can't wait for that bubble to burst.
        
         | ghaff wrote:
         | >I can't wait for that bubble to burst.
         | 
         | If it does it will certainly have an affect on the media that's
         | available for you to watch and/or require you to pay a lot more
         | directly.
        
           | rcarmo wrote:
           | I don't mind. I pay for streaming and prefer it to linear TV.
        
       | gcanyon wrote:
       | TV ads? What are those? Joking aside, I literally don't remember
       | how many years it's been since I last saw a TV ad (and it's not
       | for not watching TV).
        
         | zo1 wrote:
         | I actually have fond memories of fun, musical or funny ads and
         | watching them. We went down the wrond path somewhere, almost
         | like we're stuck trying to optimize a local optima.
        
           | gcanyon wrote:
           | Yep, there were definitely some fun commercials. There might
           | be now as well, but I'll never know :-)
        
       | jtaft wrote:
       | > tracked ad viewership using tools that, instead of just
       | monitoring the television, measured actual viewer presence in the
       | room, and focal attention on the screen
       | 
       | What are these tools and how do they measure?
        
         | cududa wrote:
         | Something like a Kinect and commercial TOBII eye tracker could
         | do it easily
        
           | jtaft wrote:
           | Maybe I misread the article. It sounded like they were
           | tracking attention with ordinary TVs?
           | 
           | Ie I wonder if they are relying on smart tv metrics , or
           | tracking volume/people changing channels.
        
       | simooooo wrote:
        
       | jordanpg wrote:
       | Ads, in whatever medium, are fundamentally bad UX. Not to mention
       | utterly without value and a waste of precious human attention.
       | 
       | It is always breathtaking to consider how much has been built on
       | the back of advertising, I guess because there is no better
       | option.
       | 
       | But always remember that it is fundamentally bad UX: content
       | providers forcing consumers to do something unpleasant, that they
       | would rather not do, in exchange for the content.
       | 
       | Nobel Peace Prize to the person or organization who figures out
       | the business model to take us beyond this absurd paradigm.
        
         | alanbernstein wrote:
         | I suppose it's the original "if you're not paying, you're the
         | product". Ads can be an excellent UX for the actual users of
         | the service - the advertisers.
        
         | hogrider wrote:
         | Just let me pay with cash for the damn thing you're selling me
         | with ads currently.
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | I'm waiting for an AI or collaborative system to turn off the
       | sound/screen whenever ads are playing.
       | 
       | Something like Shazam, but for ads, and with on/off control over
       | my TV.
        
       | bshep wrote:
       | I rarely watch broadcast TV.
       | 
       | I mainly watch streaming content with no ads. Whenever I do watch
       | something over regular channel ( ex. my wife wanting to watch
       | something thats not streamed ) the ads disgust me and the
       | interruptions are super annoying, it just reminds me why i dont
       | watch broadcast tv anymore and re-inforces my behavior.
        
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