[HN Gopher] Police hacking with Pegasus of key Netanyahu trial w...
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       Police hacking with Pegasus of key Netanyahu trial witness explodes
       into scandal
        
       Author : tomohawk
       Score  : 112 points
       Date   : 2022-02-11 20:59 UTC (2 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.debka.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.debka.com)
        
       | shmatt wrote:
       | The newest and weirdest twist in this story, is that some of the
       | government officials involved (which had no open investigations
       | against them) are now "bringing their phones to NSO" to check if
       | they indeed had Pegasus installed on their phones[1]
       | 
       | Now, that would mean NSO has no logs on the phone numbers used to
       | install Pegasus. I don't see how they would allow that
       | 
       | If that were true, any country (Saudi Arabia, UAE, for example)
       | Who got a green light from the Israeli weapons export to purchase
       | Pegasus, can now spy on the Israeli government, army, everyone at
       | NSO, the Mossad, and 8200. And the Israeli's would never know? No
       | way
       | 
       | NSO is playing dumb by saying "we can't know if you were hacked
       | without your physical phone in our hands"
       | 
       | [1] https://www.ynet.co.il/news/article/bjkftweyq (requires
       | Google Translate)
        
         | inglor wrote:
         | Pegasus (like all products in that space) is an on-prem
         | product, NSO send you the system limited to a number of usages
         | and certain phone number restrictions and then you use it.
         | 
         | To counter: do you really think every country purchasing
         | Pegasus would want the Israeli government and NSO to be able to
         | access all that information on their targets?
        
           | yuvadam wrote:
           | Counter-argument: do you really think NSO would release their
           | 0-click exploits to an on prem product that they have no
           | control over?
           | 
           | Citizen Lab reports show significant involvement of exploit
           | delivery cloud infrastructure + plausible deniability.
        
       | chaosite wrote:
       | Note that Debkafile is biased (and usually proudly so).
       | 
       | The article is editorialized, but not wrong. The Calcalist
       | article says what they say it does -- that the Israeli Police
       | hacked many phones, without oversight, and some of those phones
       | were related to the Netanyahu trials.
       | 
       | Also recall that most of the police personnel involved were
       | appointed by Netanyahu's goverment, and were praised by Netanyahu
       | himself at the time of their appointment.
        
         | pvg wrote:
         | Is there an English version of the relevant Calcalist article?
         | They're the original source so if that exists it would probably
         | make a better post.
        
           | chaosite wrote:
           | That would be this one: https://www.calcalistech.com/ctech/ar
           | ticles/0,7340,L-3928830...
           | 
           | It's the latest in a series of articles by Tomer Ganon.
           | 
           | (previously posted as:
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30241488)
        
         | jmspring wrote:
         | Debkafile is an interesting site to read. During (before and
         | after) the second Iraq war there was a lot of rumor and
         | speculation that was way outside mainstream speculation.
         | Several ended up being wrong.
        
           | ars wrote:
           | I remember them from back then - they had info _WAY_ before
           | anyone else, but not everything turned out correct.
           | 
           | They had some amazing sources in the military, but they
           | published everything, without trying to verify it first
           | (which I guess would be impossible given the nature of their
           | sources).
           | 
           | From what I remember they never lied or tried to spin
           | articles, but they did not have a strong verification step.
        
         | aaronbrethorst wrote:
         | More on this: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/debkafile/
        
         | ggm wrote:
         | Could this derail the Netanyahu trial? Political comeback trail
         | because the police used tools you empowered them to use, to spy
         | on you in a way which undermined the integrity of the evidence
         | used to show how corrupt you are.. a modern-day virtuous
         | circle?
        
           | recuter wrote:
           | Nope. Trial will continue and simultaneously and seperatly
           | they'll be investigating this.
        
           | pessimizer wrote:
           | To spy on prosecution witnesses, rather. So more like the
           | witnesses against you were spied on by the organization you
           | controlled until recently, so the trial has to be called off
           | as hopelessly compromised. If I'm reading correctly.
        
           | chaosite wrote:
           | The "Fruit of the poisonous tree" doctrine is not absolute
           | worldwide as it is in the USA. Evidence obtained illegally is
           | not automatically disregarded in Israel, though it still
           | might be.
        
       | cmurf wrote:
       | Well of course it takes the invasion of privacy of upper echelon
       | for it to be taken seriously. Had they been nobodies it would not
       | be a scandal it would be normal. This is the problem with things
       | like EARN IT too. Only once it's used against high powered
       | innocents will it be a scandal, ergo privacy is not a right it is
       | a product for the rich and powerful, not everyone.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | Nobodies don't have much to fear from this kind of
         | surveillance. Nobodies have to fear being caught up in
         | electronic dragnets and being processed by algorithms. This
         | kind of surveillance will only be used against important people
         | and people who become important by being a threat to important
         | people.
         | 
         | The endgame of this stuff is that societies become completely
         | controlled by nameless people; the least surveilled.
         | 
         | edit: just like the cops begging everyone to snitch and putting
         | snitches everywhere are the least snitching people on the
         | planet, intelligence organizations have mysterious locations,
         | methods, budgets, customers, allegiances, owners, and
         | employees. The least surveilled people on the planet will be
         | the people who own the surveillance.
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | why is everyone acting like this is all new?
         | 
         | https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-usa-spying-idUSBR...
         | 
         | ten+ years ago obama knew they were spying on merkel's phone
         | and didn't say anything. The powerful people have already been
         | spied on, and participated in the spying. The question is how
         | many phones germany is tapping that merkel knew and didn't say
         | anything about.
         | 
         | This game is not new.
        
       | anm89 wrote:
       | To me it's always interesting because I perceive this all as
       | theater. Historically and statistically speaking, the weird
       | behavior would be if these people weren't spying on each other
       | but then when someone gets caught they all have to pretend it's a
       | scandal because otherwise they would be saying the quiet part out
       | loud that nobody has had any privacy for a long time and that the
       | laws simply aren't followed once you reach a certain level of
       | power.
       | 
       | Not saying this justifies any of it, just that it is what I
       | perceive as the status quo.
        
         | smitty1e wrote:
         | So, if one is engaged in "real stuff", then one expects comms
         | probably involve many physical couriers and in-person meetings.
        
         | LegitShady wrote:
         | > that the laws simply aren't followed once you reach a certain
         | level of power.
         | 
         | That works until you're caught, and then you have to be
         | powerful enough to get out of it, or have someone involved
         | powerful enough to protect you from the consequences. When
         | 'everyone' is in on it, who is going to get you in trouble?
         | Maybe the next guy, maybe you have time to bury all the
         | evidence before then. Obviously a risk people were willing to
         | take to achieve their political goals.
        
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       (page generated 2022-02-11 23:01 UTC)