[HN Gopher] How to know if you're addicted
___________________________________________________________________
How to know if you're addicted
Author : openknot
Score : 151 points
Date : 2022-02-11 13:39 UTC (9 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (psyche.co)
(TXT) w3m dump (psyche.co)
| goldcountry wrote:
| Can we finally stop calling it "drugs and alcohol" and just
| acknowledge that alcohol is a drug?
| clpm4j wrote:
| I think the fact that they're grouped logically is enough, for
| the most part. It seems widely acknowledged that alcohol is not
| good for you, but there _is_ a psychological distinction
| between doing shots at your local dive bar and a glass of Pinot
| with dinner. I think the spectrum of alcohol use is just
| broader than most other drugs except for maybe cannabis and
| psilocybin.
| openknot wrote:
| From the perspective of academic psychologists, this is true:
| "Substance use disorders (SUDs), as described in DSM-IV, are
| part of a class of disorders (substance-related disorders) that
| are "related to the taking of a drug of abuse (including
| alcohol)" [1 p. 175]. Although the transition from DSM-IV to
| DSM-5 involves changes at multiple levels for SUDs, this basic
| definition remains unchanged [1,2]."
|
| However, most likely readers of the article are likely unaware
| of the distinction (or may resist it), so the usage of the
| colloquial and informal definition of "drug" that excludes
| alcohol would help more people with alcohol use disorder find
| the article and learn about its main points.
|
| [0] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK519702/
| [deleted]
| throwawayweed wrote:
| In my mid twenties, I had two addictions - pornography and
| Marijuana.
|
| The first was significantly harder to kick than the later. Maybe
| I'm merely a weak person, but I felt I slowly succumbed to these
| things after years of casual use and some major relational
| setbacks in my life post college. I got psychological help but
| was not encouraged to stop doing these things, just to practice
| moderation. Ultimately, I was forced by circumstance to have to
| stop and realized I was a lot happier. I think a lot of people
| don't want to acknowledge that they are addicted to stuff like
| this and rationalize it away.
|
| I find myself thinking we should set up better societal guard
| rails about these things, but avoid making them illegal. Neither
| of these are hard addictions to kick anyway, but they do cost you
| a lot of time and money.
| axiosgunnar wrote:
| > I was forced by circumstance to have to stop
|
| Could you elaborate?
| throwawayweed wrote:
| I took a contracting job where I'd travel for two or three
| weeks at a time, often working long hours. This would usually
| take me from a spot where weed was recreationally available
| and ubiqutous to impossible and impractice to get. The two
| vices ran together for me.
|
| After sobering up while away, I realized how much of a drag
| these things had been on my well being and resolved to just
| give them up, or at least try.
| [deleted]
| blobbers wrote:
| "Addiction can be defined as a persistent, compulsive need to use
| a substance, despite the negative consequences to you or others."
|
| What about things that are beneficial but unclear if they're
| healthy? Staying up late on the computer but then taking a
| sedative to fall asleep immediately so that you don't spend an
| hour staring at the ceiling. You get more sleep, but you're
| probably addicted to the sleeping pills. Without them, you don't
| get enough rest.
| openknot wrote:
| Sleeping pills may be better than getting no sleep at all, but
| cognitive behavioural therapy for insomnia (CBTi) may be a
| better treatment approach than medication [0]. A problem with
| sleeping pills is that they reduce sleep quality, so you aren't
| as well-rested versus sleeping without them. From an interview
| with Matthew Walker, a professor of neuroscience and psychology
| [1]:
|
| "The quality of sleep that you have when you're on these drugs
| is not the same as normal, naturalistic sleep. They're
| classified as "sedative hypnotics," so the drugs actually just
| sedate you -- and sedation is not sleep."
|
| [...] "They don't tend to increase sleep much beyond placebos.
| People may be fooled into thinking that they're getting more
| sleep, but actually they're not. This was not my conclusion --
| it was a committee of experts, who reviewed 65 separate drug
| placebo studies, and their conclusion was simple: There was no
| objective benefit of sleeping pills beyond placebo. Their
| summary was that the impact of sleeping pills was small, and of
| questionable clinical importance.
|
| "And my third problem: They are associated with a higher risk
| of death and cancer.
|
| " _About that last point, in your book you do raise the
| possibility that it's not sleeping pills that's causing those
| things -- it's whatever is causing you to have trouble
| sleeping, which weakens your immune system._
|
| "Yeah, I think that would be the counterargument, and I think
| it's a very reasonable one at this stage. But I think an
| equally reasonable, equally tenable explanation is that they do
| shorten your life and increase your risk of cancer. The answer
| is we just don't know which of those two things it is."
|
| [0]
| https://aims.uw.edu/nyscc/training/sites/default/files/CBTi%...
|
| [1] https://www.thecut.com/2017/10/the-vicious-cycle-of-
| insomnia...
| blobbers wrote:
| How are they measuring sleep quality? I've been taking
| benadryl before bed because of allergies, and I am definitely
| sedated but my metrics as far as quantified sleep seem good.
| Heart rate drop, movement "deep sleep". Are they measuring
| brain activity? What is the metric?
| coolso wrote:
| Hopefully non-non-drowsy antihistamines aren't considered
| "sleeping pills"?
| andrewmcwatters wrote:
| > Addiction can be defined as a persistent, compulsive need to
| use a substance, despite the negative consequences to you or
| others.
|
| This is a really poor definition, because you can be addicted to
| things that have no negative consequences to you, and you still
| don't want to do them.
|
| "An inability to stop" is probably more succinct.
| entropicgravity wrote:
| Somewhere I read that an alcoholic was someone who always
| remembers their last drink whether it was an hour ago or a decade
| ago.
| dasKrokodil wrote:
| Funny how they keep writing 'drugs OR alcohol'
| openknot wrote:
| Sounds like the inclusive or [0] from the context.
|
| [0]
| https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/63998/inclusive-...
| bananamerica wrote:
| Many readers will not include alcohol in the group drugs, so it
| needs to be mentioned explicitly, even though it actually _is_
| part of the "drugs" group.
| gareiner wrote:
| Beautiful website, beautiful content. I have learned and taken
| account into considerations in facing addiction.
| monkeybutton wrote:
| I've had a couple of dreams where I'm chopping up lines even
| though its been almost a decade since I've done hard drugs. The
| dreams were very disorienting because they never go further than
| the prep before suddenly waking up. Like falling and never
| hitting the ground.
| rjbwork wrote:
| A huge part of addiction is the rituals surrounding the use of
| the addicting stimuli, not just the immediate gratification of
| the stimuli.
|
| I recently watched a video of a decades long heroin addict
| describing his life. He said that he came home from rehab once
| and just the smell of heroin in his house was enough to make
| him nauseous and craving it.
| jagger1345 wrote:
| It doesn't always get a ton of notice when addiction is brought
| up but addiction to anabolics is an interesting phenomena in
| itself.
|
| I started using anabolics years ago and slowly added more
| compounds over time. It eventually got to the point where I
| started to experience increasingly negative sides that I had
| trouble managing so would add further pharmaceuticals to the
| stack to mitigate the side effects of the anabolics.
|
| What is interesting about anabolic use is that if abused for long
| enough or heavily enough (blast and cruise) going back to a state
| of non anabolics is actually difficult and can come with
| months/years of hormone / neurosteroid deficiency as you attempt
| to restart your HPTA. This is why most people are on replacement
| doses of testosterone for life after dabbling in this area which
| is interesting in terms of your typical reformed addict =
| quitting sense.
| shard wrote:
| To save someone else a search, HPTA is, according to Wikipedia:
|
| The hypothalamic-pituitary-gonadal axis (HPG axis) refers to
| the hypothalamus, pituitary gland, and gonadal glands as if
| these individual endocrine glands were a single entity. Because
| these glands often act in concert, physiologists and
| endocrinologists find it convenient and descriptive to speak of
| them as a single system.
| MeinBlutIstBlau wrote:
| drewcoo wrote:
| Step 1: Self-Diagnosis!
|
| Somehow that doesn't seem like something a credible psychologist
| would say. And a skim through their other stories is in the same
| vein.
| JimWestergren wrote:
| Why such a focus of substances and no mention of the more common
| addictions such as video games, porn and social media?
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| They don't cause the severe dysfunction found in substance
| abuse. Opioid addiction for example is among the ugliest things
| in existence. Video games, gambling, social media addictions
| are all bad but not to the same degree.
| ModernMech wrote:
| > They don't cause the severe dysfunction found in substance
| abuse.
|
| Big disagree. I'm not going to say opioid addiction isn't a
| worse thing, but I watched a friend fail out of college
| because he played WoW all day every day. For a whole year he
| barely left his room. It definitely wasn't healthy.
|
| I remember at one point I was playing Everquest all night in
| high school. My friend had an account and let me use it when
| he was sleeping, so I'd play from 9:00pm to 6:00am, then go
| to school, then repeat. I hardly ever slept, which was
| definitely not healthy. There's a reason they called it
| Evercrack.
| champagnois wrote:
| Social media addiction can lead to severe mental health
| issues, eating disorders, depression, and even suicide.
|
| Video game addiction often leads to children and adults
| completely destroying their professional or academic lives.
| In many cases, a child grows up to find a balance between
| working just enough to afford their videogame habbit.
|
| I have read stories of an adult who was so addicted to a
| simple cellphone game that they were compulsively telling
| lies to create more game time and ultimately destroyed all of
| their social relationships and lost their job. All of that
| dysfunction stems from their brain's addiction to the rush of
| progress bars, levelling up, victory screens, and success
| chimes.
|
| Not all people are wired the same. A lot of brains are
| hopelessly addicted to these two categories of stimuli and I
| feel you dismiss them a bit too carelessly.
| PuppyTailWags wrote:
| I remember a time where I was playing a phone game to get
| some sleep (the mindless stimulation works for my brain,
| which has hyperactivity issues). There were time-limited
| events that gave bonuses for completion. One of the things
| I distinctly remember was that there were teams you could
| join, followed by team vs team competition for rewards at
| the end of the week. Competitive teams then had minimum
| floors of activity... It became like a job to keep track of
| your own contribution for... for... some bonuses at the end
| of the week? I remember becoming disappointed/unhappy that
| the game was asking more from me than I wanted to give
| (10-30 min of playing before being calm enough to sleep)
| and quitting. Now I only play phone games without a
| team/online component, like the stupid merge games or
| bubble games.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. If the game has a
| timer anywhere, it's a deliberate habit-forming design.
| They're spaced reward schedules intended to make you come
| back.
|
| The job-like feeling is real. Before they even realize
| it, people start organizing their own schedules around
| some stupid phone game. Setting alarms to wake up at 3 AM
| because that's when the timer resets and they can play
| again.
| champagnois wrote:
| I grow concerned with the increase in addiction research
| among technology companies. The language is disguised as
| user retention, engagement, social, gamification, etc.
|
| I do not have a solution to this problem and it is a
| problem that I myself would contribute to if I was trying
| to design an app that people would use. Greater addiction
| mechanisms trend toward wider market adoption which leads
| to a higher value for shareholders. The current system of
| incentives to a company makes this focus inevitable.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| I don't dispute any of that. I once fell into the mobile
| game trap myself, it's really bad. I've posted many times
| here on HN about how these games are deliberately designed
| to form habits in players and I think they should be
| illegal.
|
| The thing is I've personally seen opioid addicts do
| literally anything for a drug. Not for pleasure, just to
| avoid the pain of abstinence. One guy killed his own mother
| because she tried to cut off his access to the drugs, he
| ended up homeless and reduced to crime and was eventually
| arrested and forced to undergo treatment. The power of
| these substances cannot be underestimated. As bad as
| predatory video games are, I'm convinced opioids are worse.
| iSnow wrote:
| I think you are spot on but many people haven't
| experienced opiate (or benzo) addiction or talked to ex-
| addicts. It's really something else.
| matheusmoreira wrote:
| Indeed. I have experience at a neurology practice, I
| suppose it has skewed what "severe" addiction means to
| me.
|
| Benzodiazepines addiction is severe as well. Not as bad
| as opioids but still pretty bad. I've seen patients get
| violent because a doctor didn't want to renew their
| prescription for their own good.
| nunez wrote:
| I don't know about that. I know that anecdotes != empirical
| data, but, anecdotally, I've seen video games and gambling
| destroy several peoples careers, relationships, etc.
|
| One dorm-mate was kicked out of college because he spent ALL
| of his time playing WoW (World of Warcraft) and failed all of
| his classes. (Side note: I remember being scared to go near
| that game from hearing so many similar stories at the time.)
| I've known many people who remain unemployed and do nothing
| but play video games.
| skulk wrote:
| It's interesting that for some people, the pursuit of real-
| life activities is a fair opportunity cost of spending time
| on a computer (I won't claim I'm not one of them). Has
| there ever in history been a diversion that is able to keep
| people inside their homes for months on end?
| DarylZero wrote:
| Why is the computer activity the "diversion" while "real-
| life activity" the thing diverted from? The computer is
| only an extension of the human user. It can be used for
| almost any purpose.
| ModernMech wrote:
| If you want an addiction that no one ever talks about,
| addiction to money would be a big one. That's seen more or less
| as a virtue in our society though.
| Bancakes wrote:
| Because those are legal businesses, and you can't critique the
| world order like that. Drink your corn syrup and stay quiet.
| bengale wrote:
| Also, junk food! That is for sure my big problem.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Probably because they're considered less harmful to your
| physical health and society as a whole.
| nunez wrote:
| `s/less harmful/socially normalized/`
|
| Getting blasted by/constantly engaging with tweets all day
| and endless scrolling on Instagram/TikTok/Facebook are just
| "things that people do" nowadays. I've seen countless couples
| on dates where they spend a great deal of their time using
| their phones instead of talking to each other, for example.
|
| My inner curmudgeon remembers when my parents would scold me
| for spending all of my time on the computer when 56K was all
| the rage. I was mostly writing websites, looking at PC parts,
| and browsing Slashdot, mind, but spending all night after
| school doing it instead of hanging out with friends (that I
| didn't have or want; I was aggressively bullied back then)
| was abnormal and concerned them.
| JimWestergren wrote:
| Yes, ok. But such an article with such a title should at
| least mention them I think. Otherwise some people keep
| thinking it is normal spending hours daily on social media,
| or checking their phone 50 times a day. We should speak up
| and say that it is NOT normal.
| openknot wrote:
| It may be a writing constraint or decision by the editor to
| keep the article focused on alcohol and drug use, as
| addiction to "video games, porn and social media" may have
| different treatment approaches or signs of addiction (and
| would thus significant broaden the article's scope), though
| I agree with your last two sentences.
|
| For example, consider the criteria used to describe the
| signs of addiction: "You need an increasing amount of
| alcohol or drugs to feel a buzz or high. You feel an
| urgency to get the first drink or drug of the day. You
| experience a loss of interest in other activities and an
| increased desire to get 'high' or 'buzzed'. You try to quit
| or cut down on the use of alcohol or drugs but can't. You
| will do almost anything to get the drug or alcohol."
|
| You might feel an urge for these other addictive habits at
| the start of the day; experience a loss of interest in
| other activities; and try to cut down but can't. For the
| pull to experience an "increasing amount" of the activity
| for a high, that is plausible for porn (for some users,
| it's a want for more extreme content), but less so for
| video games and social media. It's also not immediately
| obvious--especially when compared to drugs and alcohol--
| that a user of video games, porn, or social media would "do
| almost anything" to satisfy the urge.
|
| The bottom line is that these behaviours, while addicting,
| have significant differences when compared to alcohol and
| drugs. Speaking from past writing experience, these would
| require the article to significantly broaden its scope,
| which may not have been possible due to editorial
| constraints (e.g. word count). It's also plausible that the
| original article may have been, "The first steps to respond
| to a potential alcohol or drug addiction," but the editor
| shortened it to a catchier "How to know if you're
| addicted."
| crypt1d wrote:
| You are nitpicking. Not every article about addictions and
| drugs needs to read like a disclaimer. Mentioning phone and
| social media addiction here is certainly not going to
| change anyone's mind - people tend to ignore facts that
| don't fit their worldviews.
| toyg wrote:
| Because those are all pretty new phenomena, so the literature
| and treatment culture around them are scarce. Whereas drug and
| alcohol rehab has been effectively an industry for decades (or
| even centuries - the Salvation Army was founded in 1865...).
|
| Also, as others have said, the societal impact of substance
| abuse are often much more visible, directly measurable, and
| immediately felt.
| sleepingadmin wrote:
| Recently gave cannabis a break. Been using for years as a medical
| user. If flower, I would smoke < 0.3g a day. If vape, maybe 5-10
| hits. Barely any compared to so many others
|
| Felt like I wasn't anywhere near overdoing it, but when looking
| at cannabis withdraw symptoms... can confirm. Certainly had a
| problem.
|
| Still wondering if i can even go back.
| bengale wrote:
| I found it hard to regulate but easy to quit. I was probably
| smoking more than you from the sound of it, but I found myself
| smoking more during the work day when I started working from
| home, tried to put some limits on it and then found myself
| breaking the rules. So I stopped cold, worst of it was probably
| the desire to smoke while winding down, more of a craving than
| a compulsion though and no physical symptoms.
| rajin444 wrote:
| I'm similar I think. I generally smoke similar amounts daily.
|
| I've taken a break a few times now and aside from some weird
| dreams initially and my eyes being less dry, I didn't really
| notice much. I took a 2 month break not too long ago and the
| only benefit I found was from "doing something" - ie a mental
| boost from setting a goal and accomplishing it.
|
| I've only ever used weed to relax when all the other stressors
| in my life are under control, which might have something to do
| with it.
| sleepingadmin wrote:
| Ive occasionally taken breaks but I think I didn't do it long
| enough.
|
| This time at like day 3-4 I was triumphantly saying there was
| no withdrawals, but for some reason I was unusually angry.
|
| I dont deny anger, I almost denied that I was angry. Normally
| I absorb the emotion and analyze why I was this way. I
| couldn't really do that, I couldn't really justify why I was
| angry. I even woke up angry with no apparent cause.
|
| The next day I lost control and raised my voice out of anger
| for a moment. Something I generally don't do. I tried
| questioning this anger again but found no answers. I believe
| at this time I still didn't believe cannabis was addictive or
| for that matter I was having withdrawals. Let alone this was
| just the beginning.
|
| Took over a week for problems to really peak.
|
| The bigger problem, I was using medically... without it...
| that original problem also started to come back. Just making
| it all that much worse.
| scottious wrote:
| Withdrawal symptoms usually last a few weeks for me. Head over
| to reddit.com/r/leaves if you need support for quitting.
|
| I've struggled with this a lot over the years. I'll quit for 6
| months, get rid of all my paraphernalia then find myself
| starting up again. I keep telling myself that I'll use it more
| responsibly this time, but then I end up doing it every day.
| datameta wrote:
| Another option is /r/petioles, for those who want a
| moderation approach.
| pdenton wrote:
| The worst of the bunch is tobacco. The effect is basically
| nothing, but it hurts ones health and wallet.
|
| I've done cocaine, marijuana, mdma, speed, xtc pills, and some
| research chemicals. Protips: don't smoke, and never combine any
| two drugs. If you really want a certain substance, do at least
| the first session with someone sober to keep an eye on you. Never
| accept drugs from strangers and don't give in to peer pressure
| (which can be pretty tough at times when self-confidence is
| lacking).
| bodge5000 wrote:
| Guess its just a matter of experience and perspective, because
| for me tobacco is the "best" due its lack of any effect on you
| mentally, even if it is pricey and bad for you. Though I guess
| Sugar is probably a bit better and has pretty much the same
| consequences.
|
| Regardless of your perspective though, I'd say heroin is
| absolutely the worst
| iSnow wrote:
| Sugar is not a drug though and doesn't create addiction,
| maybe a mild dependence.
| mrtranscendence wrote:
| Sugar may not be a drug, but for some reason I had no
| trouble stopping smoking and have been unable in 40 years
| of life to quit overindulging in sugar despite many efforts
| to do so.
| throwaway98749 wrote:
| I disagree. As an addict (weed, alcohol, cocaine, and tobacco
| if you go that way), cocaine is much harder to quit than
| tobacco.
|
| But actually, telling that drug X is harder to quit that drug Y
| is a lie. For each person, each drug will be different. Maybe
| you struggle with tobacco, but that does not mean that its the
| worst. There's no worst, they're all equally bad.
| actusual wrote:
| The measure of "harder to quit" actually takes into account
| more than ones physical ability to actually give something
| up, all else equal. Social acceptance, availability, the time
| horizon for negative health impacts, and money all count
| toward how hard something is to quit.
|
| Nicotine is actually the hardest thing to quit when taking
| into account all of the factors that lead to continued use in
| the face of adverse consequences. It's everywhere, a large
| number of people do it, it's relatively inexpensive in
| comparison to other vices, the time horizon for negative
| impacts is VERY long, and it's in general socially acceptable
| (depending on where you live).
| hn_version_0023 wrote:
| To underscore your point: cocaine was much easier to kick for
| me than tobacco. But neither had the grip that caffeine had
| on me!
|
| I'm pleased that all three are a distant memory now.
| wpietri wrote:
| For some costumes, I have held an unlit cigar in my teeth. The
| effect for me is noticeable and strong, like caffeine but more
| so. I really liked it! Which is why I will never take up
| regular use of it.
| petercooper wrote:
| I've never tried tobacco, but I did try nicotine last year
| after seeing it discussed in ADHD circles. Noticed no effect
| (beyond perhaps a mild caffeine-esque sensation early on) but
| forced myself to try it for a few weeks. The "cloud" aspect was
| amusing, but I forgot about the experiment months ago and have
| suffered not a jot for it since. Different strokes for
| different folks, because apparently it's usually one of the
| most addictive things going, yet I'd consider caffeine or sugar
| to be more so than whatever nicotine was doing for me.
| stryan wrote:
| IIRC Tobacco has MAOI-inhibitors that help amplify the
| addictive/pleasurable properties of nicotine. So if you just
| consumed nicotine through gum/patch/old-school vape juice it
| would be more "difficult" to get addicted to it.
| mrtranscendence wrote:
| I used to smoke as a teenager, but I found it effortless to
| quit and never once considered smoking once I reached
| adulthood. At the same time my mother has tried to stop
| smoking countless times, and even now -- with COPD, requiring
| oxygen supplementation, and unable sometimes to make it up a
| short flight of stairs -- she still hasn't been able to quit
| despite trying many times. Weird how that works.
|
| (Also weird: she hid her smoking from us, though obviously
| everyone knew she smoked. She _always_ smoked holed up in her
| bathroom. I suppose I always knew where I could steal a few
| cigarettes!)
| sjcoles wrote:
| Nicotine is a useful tool though.
|
| The latest round of tobacco free pouches are great and reduce
| risk to basically zero.
| mrtranscendence wrote:
| A useful tool for what? I haven't used nicotine in a long
| time, but from what I recall the impact was basically zero
| unless I hadn't smoked in a while.
| sjcoles wrote:
| It's a stimulant. It helps me concentrate and seems to help
| my working memory (which is already poor due to ADHD).
| [deleted]
| GenZRiseUp wrote:
| That is a really beautifully designed website.
|
| I was addicted to pornography. The way I knew was by trying to
| stop for at least a week, if I could accomplish that, then it
| wouldn't be a problem. I couldn't make it past one day.
|
| I thought, maybe access was the issue - so I deleted my browsers,
| and within a day was reinstalling them just to watch porn.
|
| I was watching during classes, and I would go late to events just
| so I could finish watching a particular scene, or explore a
| pornstar's catalogue.
|
| It was only after confiding in somebody that I realised how deep
| I had sunk (watching and paying for snuff and gore), and it was
| extremely tough to come out of that.
|
| I still get the urge when opening a browser to muscle memory type
| in a site, and it's constant vigilance and self-discipline that
| has held me at bay, but the pull has never went away.
| throwthh436 wrote:
| For these kind of problems, tech is not really a solution. So
| better talk to a registered psychologist or psychiatrist.
|
| But on the tech side, for android users, 'Open TimeLimit' is a
| useful app. It's like an advanced app locker, with timers and
| stuff. It's FOSS and on Fdroid:
|
| https://codeberg.org/timelimit/opentimelimit-android
|
| https://f-droid.org/app/io.timelimit.android.open
|
| Edit: Make sure to disable the app when you go out etc. Because
| it might cause obstacles during emergencies. Depends on the way
| you set it up of course.
| pqs wrote:
| I should try to not randomly browse the web for one week. I'm
| not sure whether I'm able. Ups. It is so easy to jus type
| Ctrl-T and then news.ycom TAB.
| wpietri wrote:
| For me, a well-established habit can be different than
| addiction, but they're definitely related. What I look for is
| a) whether I'm using X to avoid discomfort, and b) whether
| using X helps create or sustain that discomfort.
|
| As an example, I play casual computer games to take breaks.
| So popping open my current favorite can be a habit. But I've
| had friends addicted to WoW, such that they were spending
| enough time in it that it was making their lives worse. The
| more they played, the worse their personal problems got,
| causing them to seek more relief through WoW.
| toyg wrote:
| that's a lot of letters, my firefox gives it to me with just
| "ne"-enter.
| shimonabi wrote:
| Sometimes I catch myself when I unconsciously type the
| address of a web site.
|
| I think I've been addicted to the internet for 20 years.
| iSnow wrote:
| - OK, enough reddit for now, let's do something productive
| like work - closes tab - starting a compiler run - ctrl-t
| types old.reddit.com - my man, what are you doing there?
| _bangs head_
|
| Much more often than I'd like to admit
| rmbyrro wrote:
| I wonder if the dopamine doses associated with the activity is
| what causes the addiction on the area.
| Mezzie wrote:
| My ancedotal evidence says yes. I've never had a porn problem
| (I'm a homosexual female, I'm not sure there's enough
| material for me to _sustain_ a porn problem...), but I 've
| had other psychological addictions and one interesting thing
| I've noticed is that if I take modafinil when I'm trying to
| break one that my cravings/desires are much less.
|
| I think it's dopamine (as opposed to the other nts modafinil
| is theorized to work on) because a changing short half-life
| SNRI dose does nothing (so it's not serotonin or
| norepinephrine making the change), caffeine does nothing (so
| not adenosine), and histamine modifiers also do nothing.
| beaconstudios wrote:
| That's interesting because that's the opposite effect to me
| - I used to smoke (still do rarely but try to avoid it) and
| when I took modafinil I often had a strong urge to chain-
| smoke, just like after a few drinks.
| Mezzie wrote:
| Nicotine?
|
| God, modafinil + other stimulants is a bad time for me.
| rmbyrro wrote:
| Makes sense. It's certainly a blessing not having enough
| material. My impression is this kind of addiction can get
| particularly depressing if you can look at yourself from
| the outside...
| knicholes wrote:
| Oh believe me, there is definitely enough material for you
| to sustain a porn problem. OnlyFans alone can get you
| paying specific people to create content for you. It's
| infinite.
| wanderer_ wrote:
| Same. I have heard it (addiction) described as an inability to
| 'decide not to'.
|
| My most effective strategy has been to simply distract myself.
| Always listening to music, reading, anything to keep my mind
| from wandering.
| thecleaner wrote:
| I used the method of X to quit smoking. I mean I smoked a lot
| less to begin with but it reached upto one or two everyday with
| disturbing consistency. I haven't smoked in around 3 years now.
| rhino369 wrote:
| >The way I knew was by trying to stop for at least a week, if I
| could accomplish that, then it wouldn't be a problem.
|
| Not being able to stop for a week shows you are an addict. But
| being able to stop for week doesn't really show you aren't one.
| Most addicts do quit for weeks or even months at a time.
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Well yeah, but if you're not sure, you can try it and
| introspect how you feel; if you're restless or start tweaking
| you're likely addicted to whatever you're trying to quit, as
| mentioned by the parent comment.
|
| Addicts that quit for X amount of time and relapse KNOW
| they're addicted. They know that they need to be conscious at
| all times, and that even after decades they may relapse if
| they're not careful. This is where organizations like AA come
| in, offering support, coaching, goals and positive feedback
| for dealing with - in that case - alcoholism.
| lelanthran wrote:
| > Not being able to stop for a week shows you are an addict.
| But being able to stop for week doesn't really show you
| aren't one. Most addicts do quit for weeks or even months at
| a time.
|
| Correct. "Not doing $X anymore" doesn't mean you aren't an
| addict. "Being able to turn on/turn off doing $X" means you
| aren't an addict. If you haven't had a drink in years, but
| having a single one means that you now cannot do without the
| bottle, you're still an addict.
|
| I've always said that there's no such thing as an ex-smoker;
| they're smokers who haven't smoked in a long time.
| axiosgunnar wrote:
| > I've always said that there's no such thing as an ex-
| smoker; they're smokers who haven't smoked in a long time.
|
| At least to their lungs they're not smokers anymore :)
| thecleaner wrote:
| And by that logic what will happen if they smoke one ? By
| your logic such people will have to stop before a certain
| threshold. What's the threshold ?
| dylan604 wrote:
| "There's no such thing as an ex-Marine", so are Marines
| addicts?
| kranner wrote:
| > I've always said that there's no such thing as an ex-
| smoker; they're smokers who haven't smoked in a long time.
|
| This kind of absolutism may end up discouraging present-day
| smokers from trying to quit at all. It's also not
| necessarily true. Some people do go from being smokers to
| hating the sight/smell/thought of smoking.
| loudtieblahblah wrote:
| Smoked from the time I was 13 until I was 29. That was 11
| years ago.
|
| I was tempted to smoke for the dirt 2-3 years after I
| quit. But I've grown to despise it and being around it.
| jwdunne wrote:
| Interesting how close our timelines match up, minus the
| 11 years. Smoked from 14 to just before my 30th birthday,
| which was 6 months ago.
|
| If I smell it in passing, it smells pretty disgusting.
| But if I spend the weekend at my parents (both heavy
| smokers), I quickly fall in love with the smell again and
| yearn for "one last cig".
|
| A big problem for me is that tobacco smoke very much
| smells like home - it's what home smelled like growing
| up. And nothing takes you back like a strong, familiar
| scent.
| chaircher wrote:
| I agree, but it's also worth noting sometimes the
| opposite can be true and it's more helpful for some
| people who don't want to smoke to drop the "ex-smoker"
| "quit" and similar language and start saying things like
| "I am not smoking at the moment" instead. It takes the
| pressure off and makes it seem like less of an all-or-
| nothing thing. And also means if you do mess up and have
| a cigarette, you've not failed, you've just had a
| cigarette and now you can go back to not smoking.
|
| Not posting this to be contrarian, just on the off chance
| there's anyone reading this whose trying to quit and is
| looking for a new angle to try. If you can't quit, don't
| quit. Just don't smoke. This is what finally worked for
| me.
| loudtieblahblah wrote:
| I used to say shit like "I'm not smoking at the moment"
| or "I quit every time I put one out"
|
| I turned phrases like that into a contrarian joke to
| justify my addiction.
| bloak wrote:
| Were there withdrawal symptoms in your case? If so, what were
| they?
|
| Years ago I read that withdrawal symptoms are an essential part
| of the definition of addiction, but probably "addiction" has
| become a somewhat broader concept since then. The article says
| you "might" also experience withdrawal symptoms, and I don't
| think I've heard of people addicted to gambling, for example,
| suffering from any specific withdrawal symptoms, though even
| quite mildly addictive drugs like coffee can have recognisable
| withdrawal symptoms.
|
| EDIT: For the avoidance of doubt, I am not claiming that
| addiction requires withdrawal symptoms.
| GenZRiseUp wrote:
| I couldn't sleep for the first few days because although my
| body was tired, my mind was expecting to watch some sort of
| carnal entertainment.
|
| I also felt an uncomfortable rush of blood in my left temple
| everytime I wanted to indulge again, but that could be purely
| psychological, I don't know.
| [deleted]
| camjohnson26 wrote:
| There's a Reddit support group for recovering porn addicts,
| the stories over there are pretty interesting. One of the
| withdrawal symptoms mentioned is a total lack of interest in
| sex that they call "flatlining."https://nofap.com/porn-
| addiction/
| tenuousemphasis wrote:
| There's a fine line between support group and cult...
| amanaplanacanal wrote:
| nunez wrote:
| Massive courage to talk about your past addiction online. I'm
| glad you got out of it.
| laurex wrote:
| I have more than a passing interest in neuroscience and
| psychology and I'm still on the fence a bit but truthfully I do
| think most descriptions of addiction make my relationship with my
| phone at least in the realm of applying the addict label. There's
| the idea in neuroscience of not liking a behavior but still doing
| it compulsively with a unconscious hope of repeating a high that
| becomes harder and harder to access as tolerance builds up. I
| find myself with my phone in my hand as though by magic
| sometimes. And yes, I'm writing my comment on my phone right now.
| silicon2401 wrote:
| personally I think everyone's addicted to their phones, or at
| best has a horrible habit of being on their phones. I used to
| be the standard modern person, phone always in hand and finding
| something to do. Over the years I put in work to change that,
| and now I generally go to my phone if I need it, rather than
| being on it by default and finding something to do with it.
| It's incredibly liberating. IMO The experience of using a phone
| is incredibly cheap and shallow compared to almost anything
| else you can do, even watching the same videos but on a proper
| tv or monitor.
| buscoquadnary wrote:
| Honestly I am at that state right now with HN and Reddit.
| kosyblysk2 wrote:
| admit powerlessness over your addiction and start reflecting upon
| yourself (shadow/feelings(anima)/etc)
|
| ...the wound is the cure
| kaycebasques wrote:
| Just started _Urge: Our History Of Addiction_ yesterday!
|
| I am doing a sober February this month as an exercise in
| contemplating my own addictions and for the pure sake of
| challenge. No beer, no marijuana, etc. Not even caffeine!
| Caffeine is much harder for me than any other.
| MandieD wrote:
| I give up alcohol for Lent every year.
|
| I _tried_ giving up caffeine one year instead.
|
| I broke down after a week and went back to giving up alcohol
| instead.
| aurbano wrote:
| Is it just me or it's actually hard to find an answer "how to
| know if you're addicted" in the article?
|
| I skimmed the article and thought I found it when I got to the
| section titled "Key points - How to know if you're addicted", in
| the middle of the article; but again this section didn't give a
| list of things to look out for...
|
| Maybe I missed it?
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| > Addiction can be defined as a persistent, compulsive need to
| use a substance, despite the negative consequences to you or
| others.
|
| If that describes you, you likely have an addiction.
| hervature wrote:
| The problem is that this definition does not help with the
| identification process. For instance, any use of drug is
| arguably not compulsive as the effect often brings
| pleasure/reward and is often premeditated. "I'm tired, let me
| get a coffee". So, by simple rationalization, any addict can
| come to the conclusion that their behavior is not compulsive.
| Anyone who has the wherewithal to introspect and realize
| where this need for coffee came from does not need this
| definition as they already have the ability to differentiate
| addiction versus genuine desire/want.
| realce wrote:
| > despite the negative consequences to you or others.
|
| If I keep consuming coffee when I'm tired despite the
| negative consequences, I could be addicted to it. All
| desires are "genuine" but many desires are harmful to
| yourself or to others. If that doesn't prevent you from
| indulging, you should analyze it and probably try to stop.
| aurbano wrote:
| I feel like the definition should just be "Addiction can be
| defined as a persistent, compulsive need to use a substance".
|
| Surely one can be addicted even if it doesn't have negative
| consequences right?
| heikkilevanto wrote:
| By that definition, I must be addicted to oxygen, food,
| water, and a number of other substances.
| Mezzie wrote:
| Yeah, this is a major omission and it is also why you see
| so many functional addicts who don't think they have a
| problem.
|
| Also it means that who is considered an 'addict' is
| partially socially constructed: Some people have jobs that
| will randomly drug test for weed, so if they smoke daily
| and lose their job, they're addicts, but since my job is
| remote and doesn't care, I could be high as a kite most
| nights and not be an 'addict' since it didn't cause issues.
| leetcrew wrote:
| I mean yeah, different jobs come with different
| obligations. showing up high to a construction site is a
| problem in a way that being high during your shift at a
| dispensary is not. I dunno if that's "socially
| constructed"; it seems like a very real safety issue to
| me. it's unfortunate that we can't test for acute
| cannabis intoxication the way we can with alcohol, but
| I'm sure we'll get there in time.
|
| more generally, I would push back on the idea that
| someone isn't experiencing consequences just because they
| manage to hold a job. spending all your nonworking time
| intoxicated is not usually the path to a fulfilling
| personal life. the consequences are there whether the
| person sees them or not.
| sgc wrote:
| I agree, but it's still not a good definition.
|
| People are also addicted to porn, gambling, to sports (the
| 'hyperfit'), or to doing nothing, etc. Activities /
| experiences / behaviours are addictive, which shows that it
| is not as simple as just a physiological response to
| various substances.
|
| I have an addictive personality. I have to watch my
| routines since I fall into ruts very easily, just about
| anything I do can do it.
| leetcrew wrote:
| I guess, but if there truly are zero negative consequences,
| it's not really a problem that needs to be solved. I have a
| compulsion to have one or two cups of coffee every morning.
| is it useful to describe myself as a coffee addict?
| k3liutZu wrote:
| > is it useful to describe myself as a coffee addict?
|
| I don't know whether it's useful, but it suits the
| definition. We do enjoy this coffee, we do drink it
| regularly, and we do crave it when we don't have it.
|
| I'd say addiction sums it up.
| leetcrew wrote:
| I disagree. word definitions are not handed to us by god;
| we get to choose useful ones. to me, the "negative
| consequences" bit is what makes "addiction" more specific
| than "habit", which can be of bad, neutral, or even good
| quality.
|
| maybe exercise would have been a better example. there
| are people who damage themselves through compulsive
| overtraining, but there is often a compulsive element to
| moderate exercise. a person with a solid 5x1hr/week
| regimen will often feel bad if they miss a day and be
| very reluctant to do so. but this is not a bad thing at
| all; it is a very healthy habit.
| jdrc wrote:
| Ok but define persistent, compulsive, negative, and it's not
| just for substances
| colinmhayes wrote:
| How do you define that though? My cannabis use is certainly
| persistent, but is it compulsive? Maybe I'm just in denial,
| but it's hard for me to say. I've certainly stopped many
| times, but find I enjoy life less sober, so I end up smoking
| again. When does partaking in an activity you enjoy become an
| addiction? I feel like my urge to read late at night has
| caused me more problems than my marijuana use because of the
| many sleepless nights it's caused.
| tenuousemphasis wrote:
| >When does partaking in an activity you enjoy become an
| addiction?
|
| When the activity is a consciousness altering chemical and
| you compulsively use it despite the negative consequences
| to you or others.
| mediaman wrote:
| That's interesting, but suppose I like to drink a couple
| cups of coffee per day. It helps me get my brain active
| in the morning, and avoid the afternoon slump.
|
| Are there negative consequences to me or others? Not that
| I can identify. The literature has no good study that
| suggests any long-term health problems with coffee
| consumption.
|
| But I will feel out of sorts if I suddenly stop. I'll be
| fine again after a few days. But it seems certain there
| is a chemical dependence. This does not fit your
| definition of addiction, but it seems odd to claim that
| my daily coffee consumption is not, at the least, a light
| addiction?
| openknot wrote:
| From a writing perspective, a critique with the article's
| structure is that the sub-heading "What to do" comes first
| before the list of questions to ask yourself.
|
| It's placed under "Reflect on urges and motivation," with the
| points:
|
| "Do you recognise your feelings and behaviour in any of the
| signs below?
|
| "-You need an increasing amount of alcohol or drugs to feel a
| buzz or high.
|
| -You feel an urgency to get the first drink or drug of the day.
|
| -You experience a loss of interest in other activities and an
| increased desire to get 'high' or 'buzzed'.
|
| -You try to quit or cut down on the use of alcohol or drugs but
| can't.
|
| -You will do almost anything to get the drug or alcohol."
|
| This segment is particularly more difficult to find at the
| first glance, as it's in the middle of the broader "What to do"
| section, versus at the start or end of the section. These
| points of the article may have been a more suitable fit under
| the emphasized "Key points" section.
| nunez wrote:
| The author lists them pretty clearly towards the middle of the
| article.
| sumosudo wrote:
| Remove the offending substance and see how long or to what extent
| you would go to get it back.
| carlmr wrote:
| One of the most common addictions now is cellphone addiction.
| But especially since the pandemic it's hard to do anything
| without a cell phone. You need your QR codes everywhere for
| testing or showing you're tested, show your vaccinations, check
| in to restaurants, etc.
| simlevesque wrote:
| > You need your QR codes everywhere for testing or showing
| you're tested, show your vaccinations
|
| You can do all of that without a phone.
| gpas wrote:
| You are right. Print the qr and put in your wallet like any
| elderly person I know does.
| krageon wrote:
| Not here. It is technically possible to use a printed
| version, but they're not actually accepted anywhere. No
| phone means no access.
| vaylian wrote:
| Odd. Is it because the people who do the access control
| (think that they) have to follow strict procedures, or
| why isn't a printout accepted?
| benjaminwootton wrote:
| Fortunately have never had to show a test or a vaccine pass
| on a phone. Boy am I glad I've been living in England these
| last few years if that's becoming normalised!
| lelandfe wrote:
| Mercifully, shoes do not require identification before you go
| on a walk sans phone.
| ThinkingGuy wrote:
| Somewhere in Silicon Valley, I have no doubt that the first
| "smart shoes" are under development.
| brimble wrote:
| Shoes that link to fitness trackers already exist. A
| quick Google reveals shoes with integrated bluetooth
| speakers, and shoes for the blind (not sure what those
| do, but I gather it does involve electronics).
| mythrwy wrote:
| I have a horrible case of internet addiction and have for
| decades but one thing I never really got sucked into was
| phones.
|
| My phone lays untouched 99% of the day and even when I'm out
| I simply use it for maps and phone calls and messaging
| (infrequent, hate text messaging).
|
| I think it's the form factor with no keyboard and a tiny
| screen? Just not enjoyable for some reason for which I'm
| actually very thankful.
| openknot wrote:
| Internet browsing on the phone is also less of a pleasant
| experience, versus with a desktop web browser.
|
| Reddit for mobile is deliberately designed to make you use
| the app that I wish not to use (you often can't expand
| threads without moving to the app); YouTube ad blocking is
| much clunkier, versus seamless on a desktop browser; and
| it's more difficult to navigate (e.g. there are more taps
| to use the "find in page" function, versus Ctrl/Cmd+F on
| desktop).
|
| It also helps that I've deliberately made the apps on the
| phone less engaging to use (I've avoided TikTok, and
| configured remaining social media apps like Instagram to
| avoid subscribing to content that is too interesting or
| designed to capture attention, so there is far less of a
| pull to use them).
| Karunamon wrote:
| I think "cellphone addiction" isn't really a thing, the phone
| is just a means to an end. It's going to be what's happening
| on the phone, be it games or social media.
| openknot wrote:
| There are important caveats: sudden withdrawal from alcohol
| (high doses, long-term use), benzodiazepines (benzos), and
| methadone can cause death [0].
|
| [0] https://www.psychologytoday.com/ca/blog/all-about-
| addiction/...
| 1970-01-01 wrote:
| This isn't a good test because addiction is a dynamic
| situation. One can not simply remove the offending substance
| from their life for X days and confirm they are not addicted.
|
| _Persistent and compulsive_ is key to understanding how it
| works.
| specproc wrote:
| With alcohol, its not so much about the urge to drink when you
| stop, but how bad your withdrawal symptoms are.
|
| I pretty much gave up in my mid thirties when I stopped for two
| weeks to deal with some life admin and found myself in
| withdrawal.
|
| I've had a few spells off the wagon since, but now realise
| something is properly broken in me. Even small amounts of
| alcohol trigger hideous hangovers and anxiety. The only counter
| is to drink again.
|
| Careful with the booze, kids. The danger is real.
| oigursh wrote:
| Had a night out with friends recently after a year off.
| Didn't start to feel right until 4 days later. Not. Worth.
| It.
| IAmGraydon wrote:
| Were you drinking all day every day? I have a glass or two of
| bourbon most nights and can do a week break with no sign of
| withdrawal. Alcohol is definitely very addictive, but you do
| have to go pretty hard to get withdrawals.
| exdsq wrote:
| 100%. Hangxiety is the worst. I'm 27 and quit last August. I
| feel so much better for it. Binge drinking culture can really
| damage you!
| hprotagonist wrote:
| the fortitude saving throw T-break is a good idea, once in a
| while.
| grvdrm wrote:
| It's interesting to try it this way. Did it in the past with
| alcohol because I was curious how long it take to eliminate the
| urge (regardless of strength) to drink. Got through two months
| without any drinks and I'm not sure that the urge ever really
| went away. But I got used to tamping it down.
| freedom2099 wrote:
| I really can't relate... I drink but I never feel the "urge"
| to drink... I can simply stop and alcohol doesn't even cross
| my mind for weeks.
| exdsq wrote:
| That's good! That is how a healthy relationship with
| alcohol should be.
| grvdrm wrote:
| That's interesting. I've suspected it was two things:
|
| 1. Some chemical addiction - hard to understand but may
| contribute to the "urge"
|
| 2. Some component of taste - in other words, I like the
| taste of bourbon. I don't really care to be drunk but it
| obviously happens sometimes. But the goal is not to be
| drunk but instead to enjoy the taste of bourbon. I'm sure
| that desire manifests itself chemically in the body as
| well. Yet, I think of them as different pathways to the
| outcome.
|
| So day to day, what I feel like I'm fighting is the desire
| to taste something I really enjoy, rather than the desire
| to be drunk, if that distinction makes sense.
| freedom2099 wrote:
| I do understand the need to taste something you really
| enjoy... but that is what every meal is for (I always try
| to eat nice things... eating should be a happy moment!)
| mythrwy wrote:
| Exactly the same. I can take alcohol or leave it.
|
| With no social pressure, on my own I very seldom buy
| alcohol or keep it around. I don't think about it. I don't
| want for it, on occasion I'll have a few drinks and once in
| a great while a few too many drinks but it's not something
| I really care about one way or the other.
|
| I've seen many people not like this. Alcohol is a central
| part of their life even if they aren't "drunks".
|
| I think it must be a biological/chemical?
| EA wrote:
| It took me almost 2 years to fully give up sodas and sugary
| drinks. I grew up on it. I learned a lot about my willpower.
| brimble wrote:
| Club soda got me off them (this is before fizzy water became
| a trendy drink). Turns out my craving was mostly for the
| carbonation bite, not the sugar.
|
| Seltzer water didn't work. The missing minerals make it taste
| super weird to my palate. Had to be club soda (or sparkling
| mineral water, but that was too expensive for me to have
| often at the time).
| exdsq wrote:
| I wish you'd use that same strength to cut your addiction to
| micro transactions in video games ...
|
| ;)
| temp0826 wrote:
| I serve Kambo (which is the poisonous secretion derived from a
| particular Amazonian tree frog) to people. It has been my savior
| for breaking out of addictive patterns. It's definitely not for
| everyone (not just considering the contraindications; it's an
| extremely rough experience in general). It can feel like a
| physiological and psychological "reset" (note, only speaking
| anecdotally as there is not a lot of proper research around it).
| Quite a breath of fresh air after being in a rut or just looking
| to make changes in your life.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| Looks like a bit of a mixed bag:
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kambo_cleanse
| temp0826 wrote:
| Yah... I won't try to paint a pretty picture of it, but that
| article (as well as any other "alternative treatment" on
| wikipedia) portrays it pretty negatively. There definitely
| have been a couple of studies and papers (on both kambo and
| on some of the individual constituent peptides in the
| secretion), but the article states otherwise. In the
| traditional context, Kambo wouldn't ever be called a
| "cleanse". Traditionally, it's used by a few Amazonian tribes
| to remove what they call "panema" (which is essentially bad
| luck, mostly in regards to hunting. Not being able to bring
| back food has consequences for the community), to increase
| strength and stamina, and as sort of a "vaccine" (immunity
| booster). The "removal of toxins" or whatever is a hard
| western woo spin on it.
| standardUser wrote:
| The most important thing for people to understand is that
| everyone is different, and different people can have _very_
| different experiences with the exact same substance. Some people
| can smoke cigarettes on the weekend for years and never get
| addicted, which sounds insane to someone like me who couldn 't go
| for more than a hour without a cigarette for twenty years and
| went through hell for 6 months to finally quit. But I can binge
| cocaine for weeks on end (in college it was meth) and then stop
| when I get bored (or my nose hurts) and suffer no withdrawal
| beyond occasional thoughts of "it would be nice to get high!".
| Yet other people end up in rehab for using far less than I have.
| I drink absurd amounts of caffeine every day and will get a mild
| headache sometimes if I skip it, and I thought this was normal
| until a friend quit caffeine and described it the way I would
| describe quitting nicotine! It's all over the map.
|
| Wild variation is the norm, but a lot of our public health
| messaging and "conventional wisdom" ignores this entirely.
| simon1ltd wrote:
| I just had a discussion with a friend about this last week.
|
| Some people (we call it addictive personalities, not sure if
| there's a better term) seem to get hooked almost right away.
| Others, can stop whenever they want with little trouble.
|
| The problem is that you don't know which of those possibilities
| applies to you without trying it, and then it's too late. Since
| my immediate family members have had issues with substances, I
| assume I would be one of the people with a problem.
|
| That's the message I'm trying to pass along to the next
| generation too. You might not have a problem, but you won't
| know if you do until it's too late.
|
| YMMV
| standardUser wrote:
| There's even hard data on this with regards to alcohol and
| cocaine that show that some people are predisposed to have a
| higher risk of addiction. With alcohol we know it's at least
| partially hereditary, so people with histories of alcohol
| abuse in their families are often told to be extra careful. I
| would love to see more research on this and even the ability
| to give individuals info on their own risk levels.
|
| The only thing that seems to be near-universally dangerous in
| terms of addiction are opioids. But even still, most people
| who try heroin or get prescribed oxycodone never become
| addicted.
| johnisgood wrote:
| Are people who take antidepressants addicted? The reason I
| am asking is that opiates can be used as such.
|
| > Opiates promote goal-directed behavior.
|
| > Interestingly, the mechanism of antidepressant action for
| ketamine may not even involve NMDAR blockage and may
| instead involve modulation of other CNS binding sites, such
| as being an agonist (activator) of opioid receptors.
|
| I can see how opiates would help with anxiety and
| depression, especially for people who do not experience
| euphoria from it, just enough calmness... which does not
| actually go away after 2 weeks as it does with
| benzodiazepines, or without the cognitive deficits.
| anonymouse008 wrote:
| I'd like to throw this out there to see what comes back; has
| anyone thought about coding and development being an addiction?
|
| In my experience, it has fit all of the characteristics of a
| deeply addictive loop... There's a strong period of hard effort
| for variable reward - and much of the time that reward is just
| the dang thing compiling.
|
| I know without a doubt I've hurt myself doing this more than I
| should and am currently struggling with the potential long term
| benefit vs. the current pains.
| mikepurvis wrote:
| I would agree with this, but I think for me it's more of an
| undiagnosed ADHD thing, where I have periods of fabulous
| productivity where I'm up all night for days riding an endless
| wave of dopamine, and then other times where it's weeks of
| feeling stalled and unmotivated even when the next steps should
| be fairly clear.
| [deleted]
| granshaw wrote:
| Broadly I think society only considers "harmful" activities as
| addictive - drinking, porn, your usual
|
| If you can't stop doing something that's societally acceptable
| or even lauded, you're just "passionate"
| empthought wrote:
| Science and the Compulsive Programmer (1976)
|
| https://www.sac.edu/AcademicProgs/Business/ComputerScience/P...
| nunez wrote:
| I think this viewpoint is really interesting, especially when
| one considers how massively incentivized this addiction is (by
| way of high-paying jobs with generally-great benefits and
| working environments).
| oceanplexian wrote:
| It's a lot harder than you would think. I'm not a big drinker,
| not even a daily drinker, maybe once or twice per week.. and
| decided to do a month without drinking for fitness reasons.
|
| After two weeks it was hard to resist the urge every time I'd see
| people drinking on a TV show, or at the airport, or with dinner
| at a restaurant. While it may not be a full blown addiction it
| made me realize I'm much closer to addiction than I'd like to
| admit.
| wwweston wrote:
| Did it get easier over time?
|
| I've quit sugar for months at a time and found that 2-4 weeks
| was the most difficult spot for cravings, after which it eased
| off (though never went away).
|
| I don't have experience with alcohol, though, and I hear it's
| higher on a scale of risks for physical dependencies than a lot
| of substances, so sugar may be a poor comparable.
| xvedejas wrote:
| For me, the urges for sugar and alcohol are very very
| similar. I've never had urges to binge either, but cutting
| either out completely after semi-consistent use does result
| in similar cravings. And I've noticed that my urge for both
| seems to be reduced if I choose to eat large meals at night
| instead.
| kolla wrote:
| Same here, I'm probably considered an alcoholic because of the
| ammount of liquour I drink per week/month but I can work out
| every single day and stay in great shape but come friday and
| saturday I do empty quite a few units. Stopping the weekend
| urge is hard.
| phs318u wrote:
| Speaking as an addict in recovery, this definition is the
| most practically useful. It's step 1 of every 12-step
| program.
|
| If you really want to stop doing something, and are trying
| your hardest to not do that thing, and yet despite that
| desire you feel an overwhelming compulsion to do that thing,
| even though you rationally know the consequences for you or
| others will be bad - that's addiction.
|
| Or as I once put it to my daughter when she was a teen, "If
| you are making a choice that feels like an exercise of your
| own free will, and yet every single time without exception,
| you make the same choice - is it really free will?"
|
| (I was trying to get her to reflect on her own weed usage.
| Almost a decade later she acknowledges her addiction).
| at-fates-hands wrote:
| Anecdotal evidence so take this as you will.
|
| I have alcoholism in my family. When my Dad finally went into
| a 30 day in-patient treatment, I was still a sophomore in
| college. I was very much like you. An athlete (played D3
| soccer), so I was working out, and in great shape, but
| wouldn't touch alcohol during the week - when I first got to
| college, my drinking was all done on the weekends. Then when
| I was of legal drinking age (US 21 years) then it started to
| creep into Thursday, then eventually I was drinking Wed-Sat,
| drying out Sunday and then cramming all my homework and
| studying into three days just to get ready for the weekend
| again.
|
| One of the things they do is a screening. You fill out a long
| survey - How do you drink, when you drink? When do you drink?
| How often are you drinking, etc. I fill it out based on my
| current activity.
|
| Counselor sits me down, and starts telling me that I'm not an
| alcoholic YET, but I'm clearly heading that way. I do abuse
| alcohol on a regular basis and these are the behaviors they
| look for and she basically told me if I continue doing what I
| doing? I will be there in a few years. I was 22 or 23 at the
| time. I kind of shrugged it off. Dad continued in and out of
| rehab while I continued doing what I was doing.
|
| Then the wheels fell off for my Dad. Like really bad.
| Disappeared for a week, Mom couldn't find him, started
| getting worried. Found him in a shady hotel on the edge of
| town. He was trying to drink himself to death. We got there,
| got him into the psych ward and they forcibly detoxified him.
| He was basically under medical house arrest until he sobered
| up and vowed this was indeed the end.
|
| I finally had a front row seat to see what my future was. My
| mom pulled me aside that Christmas in the midst of our entire
| extended family at my parents house celebrating. She grabs my
| arm and pulls me into a room, looks me dead in the eyes and
| says, "If you want to put someone you love through what your
| father just put our family through these last two years? Then
| keep drinking, keep partying and doing whatever you're
| doing." and then just walked away from me.
|
| That was pretty much it. I decided a few weeks later to put a
| cap on it, I had a good run, but gambling with my future like
| that? No thanks. Been sober 14 years. Sure I have a beer here
| and there, but its only one (I'm a total lightweight now, so
| its no fun) and then that's it. And I never judge the people
| I'm around if they want to drink.
|
| I would tell you what the nurse told me. It sounds like you
| do abuse alcohol, and you're heading down that road. Is your
| future predetermined? I don't think so, but it took a litany
| of close calls and the one major episode with my Dad to make
| me realize what was happening and change course before it was
| too late.
| ozim wrote:
| I don't judge people that don't drink.
|
| But people that drink I don't believe that it is only
| alcohol that is their demise.
|
| There was probably whole range of feelings your father had
| that led him to that.
|
| Cannot blame anyone but your father would be the only
| person that could explain it. Because people are so
| different and even if you think you know your father, there
| is bunch of emotions that are outside of anyone that can
| comprehend.
|
| Well it is true also for EMO kids as we are ale separate
| entities struggling with life.
| [deleted]
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