[HN Gopher] The Semiconductor Ecosystem Explained
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The Semiconductor Ecosystem Explained
Author : 55873445216111
Score : 36 points
Date : 2022-02-08 20:20 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (semiwiki.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (semiwiki.com)
| bobsmooth wrote:
| With how critical semiconductors are, I'm really surprised having
| nationally owned fabs, even a few nodes behind, isn't a priority
| for big governments.
| roughly wrote:
| For China it is. The US seems to have been under the impression
| for the last couple decades that geopolitics don't exist
| anymore.
|
| On that note, if TSMC's technical supremacy isn't a core part
| of Taiwan's national security strategy I'd be shocked -
| whatever else the US may think about Taiwan & China, the fact
| that our entire electronic infrastructure relies on TSMC in
| some form or fashion ensures we have a deep and serious ongoing
| commitment to their independence from our chief geopolitical
| rival.
| rwmj wrote:
| As the other reply said, it's a strategic goal for China.
|
| The EU has also recently woken up to this and launched:
| https://digital-strategy.ec.europa.eu/en/news/european-proce...
| AshamedCaptain wrote:
| The EU has plenty of older-node fabs (e.g. ST). I live next
| to one...
| [deleted]
| tynpeddler wrote:
| Interesting information but I'm not sure about the accuracy of
| their chart depicting the leading edge node manufacturers. Until
| the last few years, Intel was ahead of TSMC and Samsung (Intel's
| 14nm process was equivalent to TSMC's 10-7nm from my
| understanding). So if Intel is excluded from the current leading
| edge manufacturers, shouldn't others be removed from the graph
| for the early 2010's?
| throwawaylinux wrote:
| Yeah this is one thing I don't get about the Intel is doomed
| crowd. Semiconductor manufacturing lead has changed hands a
| bunch of times in the past, with Intel being in the lead for
| probably most of the past 2-3 decades. TSMC has had notable
| problems with nodes and has been about as far behind Intel as
| Intel is behind now for periods.
|
| Why wasn't TSMC doomed then? And why couldn't Intel turn around
| now like TSMC did?
|
| Intel looks nothing like other vertically integrated CPU
| businesses that divested from manufacturing in the past, it's
| still making a lot of money and gross margins are still healthy
| (and still higher than AMD and TSMC at the moment!) although
| clearly taken a hit from the mid/low 60s where they typically
| sat down to mid/low 50s in the past 3 years. Manufacturing
| silicon is still a profitable business for them.
|
| Intel also has by some important metrics, the best performing
| CPUs available despite competitors being on TSMC and Samsung. I
| don't argue the others aren't better in other equally valid
| metrics. It was actually much more difficult to make that same
| statement about competitors back when Intel had a clear silicon
| tech advantage.
|
| So definitely Intel is a leading edge node manufacturer if
| others were in the past.
| cxr wrote:
| You can tell that it originates from within the semiconductor
| industry by the jarring colors in the slides and the generally
| chaotic presentation (e.g. layout)--on top of the already-dubious
| decision to use PowerPoint to explain these ideas by reflex.
| lambdasquirrel wrote:
| I don't suppose you noticed who the author was either, or did
| you? ;)
|
| Brilliant all-around guy. Wrote the book on some things back in
| the day. Sometimes reading a difficult presentation is the
| price to pay for knowledge.
| Traster wrote:
| Does this seem a little outdated to anyone else? Like, ImgTec
| haven't really existed as a top tier player for almost a decade,
| and AFAIK Apple doesn't license Ip cores from ARM, but the ISA
| itself.
|
| Also, I feel like this diagram is just weird. The pyramid makes
| no sense to me, I always think of it in terms of physical and
| logical, you have the physical - the Materials, WFE, Fabs. The
| logical organisation of the pyramid makes no sense to me.
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(page generated 2022-02-08 23:00 UTC)