[HN Gopher] Lego has changed since we were kids (2014)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Lego has changed since we were kids (2014)
        
       Author : martinlaz
       Score  : 212 points
       Date   : 2022-02-07 10:39 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.todaysparent.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.todaysparent.com)
        
       | clean_send wrote:
       | Another good way to get lots of random pieces cheap is go to eBay
       | and look for bulk lots. Most people sell by the pound and
       | ultimately it's just your imagination holding you back!
        
       | DocTomoe wrote:
       | I think traditional Lego died when they introduced the parts
       | separator tool - back in my day, you destroyed your fingernails
       | (and sometimes even used your teeth) separating parts. Attaching
       | two 2x1 thin bricks was considered horrific, because you knew
       | you'd never be able to separate them anymore.
       | 
       | Kids these days have it too easy.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Pro tip: push a brick at a 45 degree angle between the two
         | stuck plates, instant separation.
        
       | dekhn wrote:
       | I've been trying to find an article I read as a kid (late 70s)
       | about a guy who made custom LEGO models, by putting bricks
       | together incompletely. Like, you can make a cylinder with
       | slightly-out-of-perfect snap-together pieces. I think he made a
       | 747 out of regular pieces. At the time I don't think I was even
       | aware of model kits.
        
       | clean_send wrote:
       | A good hack to getting lots of random legos cheap is buying bulk
       | lots off of eBay. Most people sell by the pound and it's always
       | fun to see what you'll get!
        
       | sequoia wrote:
       | > Lego did extensive research and found that girls preferred to
       | play with the characters rather than build sets. So they created
       | the Lego Friends line where the characters own beauty salons, pet
       | boutiques and can be news reporters working on stories about
       | cakes. The sets do not come with hundreds of pages of
       | instructions because most of them are fairly simple to build. The
       | Lego Friends line is immensely popular.
       | 
       | i.e. they figured out what the market wanted, then sold that
       | thing, and it was profitable. I too prefer older legos but if
       | people generally prefer another kind, what is lego supposed to
       | do? The market also isn't the same as it was in 1980, how
       | realistic is it to expect their offerings to be the same?
        
       | bil7 wrote:
       | title correction: 9 ways lego has researched and expanded it's
       | product line to increase profits while continuing to sell less
       | popular traditional products
        
         | kkjjkgjjgg wrote:
         | Yes, it is so much fun to tell stories with cherry picking.
        
         | mcv wrote:
         | Largest toy manufacturer in the world. Can't really argue with
         | that.
         | 
         | I do miss the old, simpler lego from the early 1980s, but those
         | things still exist in the Classic and Creator lines. Buy them.
         | I love Lego Star Wars, but Classic and Creator are the soul of
         | Lego.
        
           | oaiey wrote:
           | And leaders in plastic piece production ... and interestingly
           | also long-time IT experts.
        
       | retSava wrote:
       | I feel many of those points ring true, in our case. What I
       | discovered was that Minecraft is the Lego of today, but digital.
       | It fills many of the same creative urges.
       | 
       | We have quite some Lego Friends and different kits on shelves,
       | which can't be touched according to the Creator :). A big bag of
       | second hand parts lies in peace, but Minecraft on the PS5 is now
       | the go-to. We sometimes play 2 player together, building things.
       | Basically almost always in "creative mode", and never online.
       | 
       | I kind of wanted my daughter to feel the same positive way as I
       | did with Lego, but no dice. Minecraft seems to do that.
        
       | Freak_NL wrote:
       | That dark pattern where a website gives you the next article it
       | thinks you should read does not work well here on this older
       | article. Below the Lego article I get "Hate math? Then don't help
       | your kid with their homework" -- which it proceeds to load
       | hundreds of times (a search for the word 'homework' yields over
       | 1000 hits now) below each iteration just because I tried to
       | scroll to the bottom. Somehow its recommendation engine ended up
       | recommending the same article, recursing endlessly.
       | 
       | Stupid me, why would I expect to be able to just scroll to the
       | bottom of the article for the website's footer?
        
         | kwhitefoot wrote:
         | Are your surfing without protection? Scrolling to the bottom
         | for me works perfectly. I tried disabling uBlock, then I got
         | the behaviour you mentioned.
         | 
         | I always have uBlock on to disable scripts and fonts. Quite a
         | lot of sites work perfectly well that way and I enable the
         | minimum scripts and fonts for those that don't.
        
           | dotancohen wrote:
           | I'm using uBlock Origin in Firefox, and I also got the
           | infinite scroll on Math Homework article loop.
        
             | Freak_NL wrote:
             | Yeah, I got what I posted above with uBlock Origin on, in
             | Firefox.
        
               | Jaruzel wrote:
               | Ditto. Chrome on Windows. It is the perfect example of
               | Doom Scrolling. You Scroll And Scroll, yet nothing new
               | appears. ;)
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | A website optimizing itself for freeloaders rather than ad-
           | watching users, seems... counterproductive for their bottom
           | line.
        
             | alexb_ wrote:
             | Almost every single website, especially anything involving
             | articles, is completely unusable without an adblocker. I
             | don't know how those who don't use adblockers do it...
        
       | robotnikman wrote:
       | I still have tubs full of legos sitting in the attic.
       | 
       | My favorite moments as a kid were starting with a lego mindstorms
       | kit, I think that ended up leading me down a path where I started
       | to learn programing.
        
       | k__ wrote:
       | I was a kid in the 90s and most of the things written in that
       | article were already true.
       | 
       | I still broke down all the elaborate sets, put them all together
       | in a big box, and built my own things later.
        
         | MivLives wrote:
         | Honestly I think people also underrate how fun it is to add on
         | to existing sets. This is harder to do with technic sets, but
         | for the traditional block stuff it was easy enough to build the
         | set to instructions and just keep building.
         | 
         | I've been doing more of this recently as I picked up some knock
         | off mech based lego sets and adding more arms/building them
         | more weapons/other things is fun way to make them look better.
        
         | logifail wrote:
         | > I still broke down all the elaborate sets, put them all
         | together in a big box [..]
         | 
         | In a _box_?!!
         | 
         | Our kids store piles of bricks on more or less every horizontal
         | surface in their rooms.
         | 
         | > the elaborate sets
         | 
         | Our kids will always build each elaborate set once, according
         | to the instructions, wait a day or three, then it's fair game
         | to be cannibalized for their latest homespun supermegagiga-jet,
         | -spaceship, -car or -house.
        
         | bluetomcat wrote:
         | A more interesting comparison would be to put the core themes
         | of the 1990s (Castle, Pirates, Space, Town) against the modern
         | popular themes (Ninjago, Creator, Star Wars, City). The old
         | sets had less specialised parts and less colour variety, which
         | allowed kids to combine sets from the same theme easily. The
         | buildings (castles, fortresses, harbours) almost always had a
         | big baseplate (flat or 3D). Minifigs were themed and textured,
         | but weren't cartoonish with facial expressions.
         | 
         | Nowadays, most of the sets are some imaginary vehicles with
         | Creator-style builds. You can probably build a new vehicle out
         | of the same set, but combining different sets from the same
         | theme is much less enjoyable. The few sets with buildings
         | rarely have baseplates and feel very airy and unharmonic.
        
           | tokai wrote:
           | If you look at Lego Space during the 90s it is a long list of
           | new versions (almost yearly) each with their own specialized
           | parts.
           | 
           | Personally I don't feel like this narrative about a
           | substantial shift in Lego sets fits with reality. To me it
           | feel like people conflates it with the rise of licensed sets.
           | 
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lego_Space
        
             | watwut wrote:
             | Afaik, lego went through changes. They had period when then
             | introduced a lot of special parts (I think nineties or so)
             | and then period when they simplified again.
             | 
             | They introduced special parts at the height of popularity
             | and money success. Simplified when they had money issues -
             | simple parts are cheaper to manufacture. Now that they are
             | popular again, they are having more special parts again,
             | but still less then used to be.
        
             | bluetomcat wrote:
             | Let's take a look at this particular small set from the old
             | Pirates theme:
             | 
             | 6259: Broadside's Brig
             | [https://brickset.com/sets/6259-1/Broadside-s-Brig]
             | 
             | For what was a very small and cheap set at the time, you
             | are getting 3 minifigs and a small building on a baseplate.
             | The bulk of the parts are yellow- and white-coloured bricks
             | for walls and architectural elements. There is a
             | specialised yellow-coloured edge panel with a red brick
             | texture, but it plays very nicely with the rest of the
             | parts architecturally. You can easily combine this set with
             | the bigger forts and harbours. The colours are compatible,
             | the parts are compatible.
             | 
             | This is not certainly the case with modern Lego sets.
        
               | tokai wrote:
               | Then lets look at this one, from the same period:
               | https://brickset.com/sets/6834-1/Celestial-Sled
               | 
               | Weird ski bricks, seethrou chain saw, antenna, big
               | arrowshaped structural piece, etc.
               | 
               | I'm not surprised the one you linked is from 91. Noone is
               | disputing that the complexity rose from the 80s. But the
               | complexity we are seeing now is not a new thing. It
               | started in the 90s.
        
               | Xylakant wrote:
               | The ski bricks are standard technic skis. The chain saw
               | and is found in the entire series of kits. The arrow
               | shape plate is a very common piece in all space kits back
               | to the 1980, though the usually were grey or black. Often
               | used for wings with hinged plates. I have literally
               | dozens of those in my childhood lego collection. Antennas
               | were on each an every space piece, though the thin and
               | slender ones only started showing in the early 90ies.
               | They're still around.
        
               | brimble wrote:
               | Some of the late Ice Planet (dunno the real name) space
               | stuff from that same series, and some of the underwater
               | exploration sets from IIRC about then or a year or two
               | later, are _specifically_ what I think of when I think
               | "where did lego start to go wrong?" I kept getting them
               | for Christmas and kept building and playing with them but
               | the 80s (through _very_ early 90s) themed sets were peak
               | for those, IMO. I never did as much combining and
               | modifying /expanding with those later sets as I did with
               | earlier ones. I was _still_ playing with the earlier ones
               | and changing them to other things and combining them when
               | I had those later sets, but the later ones could only
               | really fit in if they could do it _whole_ and _as-is_ ,
               | that is, the earlier sets had to change to fit them, they
               | couldn't really do the reverse.
               | 
               | ... I don't think that era was especially complex,
               | though, and in fact when I think about the worst sets
               | from that era they were ones that were built with like
               | half a dozen huge pieces for the bulk of the structure
               | (there was some kind of Ice Base from that same series
               | you linked that stands out, in particular).
               | 
               | Complex is the modern sets. Fiddly, even. Look at the
               | size of a finished largish modern set (for kids, not one
               | of the adult stick-it-on-a-shelf models), and its part
               | count, and look at similar-sized sets from the 80s
               | through, I dunno, maybe '95, and see what their part
               | count was. The modern sets have _so_ many itty bitty
               | pieces. 500-something piece sets used to be _really big_
               | when assembled.
        
           | acdha wrote:
           | > Nowadays, most of the sets are some imaginary vehicles with
           | Creator-style builds. You can probably build a new vehicle
           | out of the same set, but combining different sets from the
           | same theme is much less enjoyable. The few sets with
           | buildings rarely have baseplates and feel very airy and
           | unharmonic.
           | 
           | "Most" doesn't feel right to me - my son's mostly had City
           | sets and they're all repurposable, buildings use large flat
           | pieces with configurable roads so it's not quite as big but
           | also allows more combinations than "large square", etc. There
           | are definitely specialty pieces but I'm skeptical that
           | they're that much more common given all of the pieces I had
           | as a kid which were pretty specialized, too.
        
           | where-group-by wrote:
           | The number of specialised parts is one thing I dislike about
           | modern Lego sets. They do look great and have really smart
           | building techniques, but I just want to build a brick house
           | with my kids.
           | 
           | There is always Lego classic sets, and smaller creator houses
           | do have a lot of regular bricks too. But it is a bit annoying
           | once you amass a few sets from other lines.
           | 
           | Still, I'm glad they are in business. I will take whatever
           | they do now Vs them going bust, which was a risk a decade or
           | so ago (or maybe longer, I can't remember the details).
        
             | mcv wrote:
             | My brother and I got the first two grey castles in the
             | 1980s (the first castle yellow; grey was a fairly new
             | colour back then). Those castles mainly relied on fairly
             | large castle wall pieces. At first, even as a kid, I felt
             | that was cheating; we should have gotten bricks to assemble
             | all those walls. Later I discovered what a boon they were,
             | because they allowed me to rapidly design new and different
             | castles. Sure, I couldn't build a spaceship out of them,
             | but just exploring the space of all the possible castles
             | you could build was amazing.
             | 
             | Some of these specialised pieces inspire creativity.
             | Especially with spaceships.
             | 
             | But I do agree that many modern sets just invite you to
             | build this one thing out of them. We did actually turn out
             | Millennium Falcon into an X-Wing and a TIE-fighter once,
             | but we did eventually turn them back into the Falcon. It
             | feels more wrong than it used to to build something else.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | If you still have the flag for that yellow castle hang on
               | to it, that's a collectors item.
        
               | mcv wrote:
               | I don't think we ever had the yellow castle, although I
               | do remember that flag. And we definitely had a set with a
               | horse in the style of the yellow castle. So either we did
               | have the yellow castle but lost the instructions, or I
               | knew someone who had it, or that flag also appears in
               | another set.
               | 
               | But I really have no idea. It was a long time ago.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | The reason those flags are so rare is because the grip of
               | the 1x1 round brick at the bottom is much stronger than
               | the strength of the flagpole so if you would remove it by
               | pulling on the flag you'd break it.
               | 
               | So these commend ridiculous prices for small pieces of
               | plastic (about 8 euros or so last I checked).
        
               | mcv wrote:
               | 8 euros isn't that much. Certainly not an expensive
               | collector's item. For an item that hasn't been made in
               | almost 40 years.
        
               | jacquesm wrote:
               | It translates into 5000 euros / kg or so, which is pretty
               | impressive.
               | 
               | Of course if you had a kilo of them the price would
               | crater :)
        
               | googlerx wrote:
               | I did use those castle walls for a space ship. It was
               | massive, maybe 3ft long, vaguely resembling Spaceball
               | One.
        
             | tonyedgecombe wrote:
             | >The number of specialised parts is one thing I dislike
             | about modern Lego sets.
             | 
             | Lego started pulling back from that a long time ago because
             | they were too expensive.
             | 
             | They had a leadership change in 2004, Jorgen Vig Knudstorp
             | came in and one of the first things he did was halve the
             | number of different parts.
        
       | travisgriggs wrote:
       | Legos are like coding. The simplicity of Lego yesteryear was like
       | some of the simpler programming languages out there. Approachable
       | and rewarding, but limited. Over the years, the language of Lego
       | has added new programming constructs and is inherently more
       | complex, more capable, and harder to approach.
       | 
       | The evolutions the article describes may be deplorable to some,
       | but it was adapt or die. Anyone playing with Tinker Toys, Lincoln
       | Logs, or Erector Sets anymore?
       | 
       | I am 51 and still collect Lego. I realized some years ago, that
       | my own four kids were not getting the same enjoyment out of them
       | that I had. Chagrineldy I realized that in my attempt to help
       | them love them, I had over glutted them. Two large bins (the kind
       | you put in the back of pickup trucks), an explosion of piece
       | types, and an explosion of color, made it too difficult to find
       | the piece you wanted.
       | 
       | So I sorted them. Today, I have more than 200 clear Sterilite
       | storage containers with the whole collection sorted by basic
       | shapes or types. Some are very specific (2x4 bricks), some more
       | of a category (all technic gears). I had tried sorting them by
       | color in the past, but all that led to was very mono color
       | creations.
       | 
       | When I build something, I use the whole set. But when grandkids
       | and nephew/nieces come, I just get a few of them out. With about
       | 20 boxes, it returns to that simple approachable phase and they
       | do the coolest things. You can get a lot of mileage out of just
       | the plates and bricks, plus one or two of the "specialty" boxes
       | thrown in for grins (e.g. two of my nephews just love the big box
       | of wheels).
       | 
       | The most popular boxes are still the minifig boxes: heads, hats,
       | vests, torsos, legs, tools, animals, foods, weapons. They'll
       | "play dolls" with those all day. They generally push the few
       | Friends pieces out of the way. When the kids were younger, we
       | used to do a monthly bricklink order as a group. My 3 girls
       | always opted for more female hair pieces.
        
         | travisgriggs wrote:
         | One additional thing...
         | 
         | Reason 9 from the articles is exactly why no on plays with my
         | Lego except in bare feet. Little shod feet break Lego. Little
         | bare feet learn not to step on Lego.
        
         | dhosek wrote:
         | My brother found some Tinker Toy sets that he gave my kids for
         | Christmas a few years ago. They loved playing with them.
        
       | partiallypro wrote:
       | I kind of don't like the huge push for sets, because it feels
       | like it ruins childhood imagination. You're just following
       | instructions and not actively building something new. I know Lego
       | sells the "Classic" sets, but it's usually harder to find and
       | relegated to the clearance aisle.
        
       | cosmodisk wrote:
       | When my daughter was about 3 years old,I went on Ebay and bought
       | a huge bag of used Lego. I think it was 10KG or so. My wife
       | nearly got a heart attack, especially when I poured all those
       | little pieces into the bath and filled it up with water,so I
       | could wash them a bit. Then ended up catching the smallest pieces
       | when I pulled the plug. We poured all those pieces in the living
       | room. Took like 3 days to dry out. We built so many things since
       | then. There are lots of sets mixed together,I don't care nor does
       | my daughter. It's still nice to build something, especially when
       | all you do at work is sending emails and writing some code here
       | and there.
        
         | eru wrote:
         | The advice I got was to stick your dirty second-hand Lego in a
         | pillow case, zip it shut, and put it through the washing
         | machine.
         | 
         | Though that route can only take quite a bit less than 10kg at a
         | time.
        
           | nkrisc wrote:
           | Glad to get this advice. My parents sent me all my old LEGOs
           | a while ago and I'm still in the process of disassembling all
           | the sets, though at least organized into plates, bricks, etc.
           | 
           | Fortunately I know they're not truly dirty, though they're
           | still pretty dusty so a good wash will help.
        
             | phil21 wrote:
             | Dishwasher (on low temp) also works fairly well, just don't
             | use any (or a very small amount) of detergent. I like to
             | put about 1kg or so in the "delicates" laundry mesh bags
             | when I have a lot of used legos to wash.
             | 
             | Also need to reiterate do _not_ heat dry or use hot cycles
             | if you go this route :)
        
               | usefulcat wrote:
               | I've run duplos through the dishwasher many times with no
               | problems at all. On the regular cycle with dishes. Our
               | dishwasher (Bosch) doesn't have a heating element for
               | drying, it just makes the water really hot and waits for
               | the water to evaporate from the hot dishes.
        
               | phil21 wrote:
               | Fair enough, I've used quite cheap dishwashers in the
               | past for this - where the heating element is used to heat
               | the water up. Due to general cheapness, I'm sure there
               | were hotspots.
               | 
               | That said, under hot loads with an old/cheap dishwasher
               | I've only had issues with the large baseplates and very
               | large/thin elements typically found in Technic sets -
               | everything else has turned out fine.
        
               | nkrisc wrote:
               | Our dishwasher is newer so I think I'll try it in the
               | washing machine first, but that's a good idea as well.
        
               | delecti wrote:
               | They're made of ABS, which doesn't begin to soften until
               | a bit over the boiling point of water (~104-105 C). It's
               | a bit close to risk it, but even the hot cycle might be
               | fine as long as it doesn't go much past boiling off the
               | water.
               | 
               | Definitely avoid cleaning with acetone though; that'll
               | turn it into goo.
        
       | raldi wrote:
       | What exactly is wrong with Lego making a line of products for
       | children who prefer to play with the characters than build
       | complex models? Particularly when it was based on extensive
       | research rather than just prejudice.
        
       | giantg2 wrote:
       | Maybe I'm wrong, but the vibe I get from the article is that Lego
       | has become less creative and more about marketing/profit; sort of
       | faulting Lego. I think this shift to complex, structured sets
       | says more about the parents than the company though.
       | Unstructured/unguided sets are still available.
       | 
       | It seems many more parents today want brag about what their kid
       | did, want some Instagram worthy end product, or instill that
       | structured/conforming result-driven mindset today. Again, I could
       | be wrong about all this. This certainly isn't every parent, but I
       | just feel like it's a larger percentage than the past, just like
       | the amount of time kids spend in structured groups/activities vs
       | self-organizined friend groups running around the neighborhood.
        
         | makeitdouble wrote:
         | From the post:
         | 
         | > Now: The bricks still exist, obviously, but now each set
         | contains many odd shapes that are specific to that particular
         | set and do not work with any other creation.
         | 
         | To further this point, there are central components like
         | motored hubs that are only available to specific sets and can't
         | be bought as individual pieces.
         | 
         | A lot of people will point at token actions Lego still does
         | that match the old philosophy, but at its core Lego thinks in
         | sets, and new pieces, new mechanisms etc. are introduced for
         | specific sets, never in the buckets.
        
           | giantg2 wrote:
           | Well sure, new pieces and specialized pieces are going to be
           | sold in the set they work with. The point is, parents are
           | choosing to buy the new sets with specialized pieces. You can
           | also see in the article the points about the parents being
           | frustrated while building, sad when the set is destroyed,
           | etc.
           | 
           | So yeah, Lego is marketing and making profit, but it's the
           | parents that drive/enable that. As stated before, we see this
           | in other areas of life too with the full schedules of
           | structured group activities and less self organized time.
        
       | robbrown451 wrote:
       | I enjoy modern Legos (with my now 7 year old) but only because I
       | have them a giant bin, unsorted. I managed to get an enormous
       | collection for $150 from a kid that I guess was growing out of
       | them and wanted the money. And I immediately disassembled all the
       | "kits" (like the Slave I ship now known as "Boba Fett's Firespray
       | gunship") so they were just random pieces. Yes it is fun that
       | there are a ton of weird minifigures, some recognizable and some
       | not. There are all kinds of interesting pieces in there.
       | 
       | But I really hate the idea that you should approach it like an
       | airplane model or the like, where you put it together the one
       | correct way. That is boring. I don't expect to ever buy a kit
       | like that.
        
       | foreigner wrote:
       | My friends and I used to build Lego spaceships and then "battle"
       | by physically smashing them in to each other. Fond memories.
        
         | automatic6131 wrote:
         | My brother (1 year my junior) and I did exactly this!
        
           | PebblesRox wrote:
           | We prefered a knock-off brand for special-effects for our
           | home videos because the pieces came apart more easily.
        
       | cestith wrote:
       | If you don't like the licensed sets, or even sets with
       | instruction books, then you're still covered. Lego, Mega Bloks,
       | and others have buckets or bags of just parts. To stick to Lego
       | without a themed set, look for The Lego Classic line. If you want
       | them as a themed set but maybe without a media license, there's
       | the Lego Creator line (which does include some licensed material
       | like the Bond 007 Aston Martin DB5).
       | 
       | Kit 10698 is a decent value for building toys and comes with its
       | own storage container. Hasbro has multiple brands of brick
       | building sets, but under their Kreo line there's A4585 or A4584
       | value buckets. I have a 759-piece Zuru Max bucket that's like $20
       | - the pieces fit but the quality/durability feels a little less
       | than Lego or MEGA.
        
         | dawnerd wrote:
         | Lego City is also a good line for more modern basics.
         | 
         | What I love is heir move to creating adult oriented sets which
         | are much more complicated and intricate. I seems the article
         | was complaining instructions are getting more complex but that
         | is only true in their larger sets. They still have like you
         | mention all the classic sets too.
        
           | criddell wrote:
           | I wish I could rent a set. I'd love to put a huge set
           | together, but after that I don't really want it anymore and
           | don't want to deal with the hassle of selling it.
        
             | mikkergp wrote:
             | This seems like a great business idea, so great I checked
             | to see if anyone was already doing it:
             | https://netbricks.biz/
        
               | dawnerd wrote:
               | Wow thats actually a really cool idea. At first I was
               | worried about what would happen if you lose a little
               | piece and they thought of that and seem to have a very
               | generous policy. I'd give it a go but I have a huge
               | backlog of sets to build.
        
         | somethoughts wrote:
         | One key mindshift is to realize that many of the newer sets are
         | more in line with a 3D puzzle than a creative 1000's of blocks
         | to invent your own thing. Its a lot less frustrating when you
         | realize the replay value is in taking down the set and doing it
         | again next year or passing it on to a friend - in a manner more
         | analogous to how puzzles are engaged with.
        
           | tshaddox wrote:
           | I would say it's more like model building than a 3D puzzle.
        
           | onemoresoop wrote:
           | My 4- year old enjoys building Lego kits from instructions
           | and I think it is a good learning tool that teaches to follow
           | some rules (4 year olds don't have much patience but they can
           | build it). The only problem that I find is that these
           | instructions are often wrong and confusing and that's where I
           | have to step in and become creative to get the puzzle in a
           | finished state.
        
           | bcrosby95 wrote:
           | I see my kids use modern sets just the way I did as a kid.
           | 
           | I would follow the directions to build the thing. Over time I
           | would break it down and add it to my lego pile from which I
           | made random things.
           | 
           | Sure, some pieces are very specific. But you can still take
           | those specific pieces and add it to some other random very
           | specific piece.
           | 
           | As far as I can tell, legos haven't changed _that_ much in 30
           | years. There were a lot of specially crafted pieces back then
           | too.
        
             | _nalply wrote:
             | But the colors! Back then you had black, white, blue,
             | yellow, green and red. And today? You even have two
             | different shades of light blue.
        
               | slices wrote:
               | from what I've seen, kids are likely to just ignore all
               | the colors and just grab the shape they're looking for
        
           | jacobolus wrote:
           | > _the replay value is in taking down the set and doing it
           | again next year_
           | 
           | There is no end to the "replay value" in taking whatever
           | miscellaneous collection of legos you have and making
           | whatever you want out of them. This is what most kids do.
           | Each new set gets added to the mixed-up pile. (This works
           | because all of the pieces consistently follow a common
           | geometric design, and connect together using a small handful
           | of common interfaces. Note: sorting the collection can be
           | helpful for finding pieces.)
           | 
           | Making the set following the instructions and then displaying
           | the finished model on a shelf, packing the pieces back in its
           | box, or reselling the kit is something more common among
           | adults.
           | 
           | The "follow 3d-puzzle instructions" way of playing is pretty
           | shallow. Even the hardest lego sets aren't really _that_
           | hard, and with a couple years experience even very young
           | children can do them. (A 5 or 6 year-old can easily make the
           | sets that claim on the box to be for age 11+ or whatever,
           | with a couple years' occasional experience.)
           | 
           | But if you like 3d puzzles, legos are pretty good for
           | inventing new ones, and there are a wide variety of ways to
           | make puzzles that are harder than the instructions shipped
           | with the pieces.
        
             | josephg wrote:
             | > There is no end to the "replay value" in taking whatever
             | miscellaneous collection of legos you have and making
             | whatever you want out of them. This is what most kids do.
             | 
             | It's interesting watching my sister's kids interact with
             | lego. Her daughter (the oldest) loves rules, and loves
             | following the instructions on the set. Her (younger) son
             | loves destroying her sets and mixing things up. He loves
             | all the "boy" lego sets - flames, dragons, motorbikes, you
             | name it.
             | 
             | I've been trying to get them to relax into building
             | whatever they want with their bricks. "Oh there's the eyes
             | for a face. Which piece is a mouth?" "Wow cool motorbike. I
             | wonder if this brick would look good as a helmet?". I try
             | to make bad suggestions and get them to find something
             | better.
             | 
             | I struggle to break free from the instructions a lot of the
             | time too. I think my problem with modern lego is how many
             | individual elements there are. It doesn't feel like fun
             | creative constraints when you have so many different pieces
             | to choose from. More like, whatever element I use, I feel
             | like there was something better out there I didn't think
             | of. The huge variety of pieces makes the sets look great -
             | so great that it overshadows anything I make myself. I love
             | lego; but I wish they embraced the constraints of the
             | medium more and let their sets be more blocky. Minecraft's
             | 1x1x1 block shape constraint makes the game better, not
             | worse.
        
               | somethoughts wrote:
               | Something like this might be useful:
               | 
               | https://www.amazon.com/Lego-Ideas-Book-Unlock-
               | Imagination/dp...
        
               | watwut wrote:
               | I feel like people completely unnecessary put moral value
               | on not following manual. There is nothing wrong with
               | following it. There is nothing wrong if that girl wants
               | to keep some building and play with them. She may or may
               | not build own later, most kids move between the two kinds
               | of play.
               | 
               | If younger brother dostroyed her own creation, in my
               | experience, the anger is even higher. And loss harder to
               | fix - you can help to fix it if done based on manual. You
               | just can't if it was own.
               | 
               | The play is whatever kids do with it. When we demand that
               | they play in certain way, so that they become more
               | artistic ones, it is nit a play anymore. It is
               | educational activity.
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | jacobolus wrote:
               | One game I have enjoyed with my 5-year-old is to give two
               | (or more) people an identical collection of 20-50
               | miscellaneous pieces (just pull pairs of identical pieces
               | randomly and dump into 2 piles) and then each make
               | something and compare.
               | 
               | Or have one person make something and see if the other
               | person can copy it, then switch.
        
             | somethoughts wrote:
             | The "follow 3d-puzzle instructions" way of playing is
             | pretty shallow.
             | 
             | >> I don't disagree that its shallow but its similar to a
             | jigsaw puzzle, sometimes you want to just do something to
             | keep your mind active and have a sense of accomplishment.
             | 
             | >> As mentioned in the other posts, there are just a lot of
             | custom parts in the new "licensed" sets to have a proper
             | return on investment - particularly once Harry Potter,
             | Marvel, Architecture, Star Wars all get jumbled together.
             | The suggestion for creative play is to buy the City Legos
             | or 1000 random piece sets which seems to scratch this itch
             | really well.
        
               | jacobolus wrote:
               | Nearly all of the parts in a "Harry Potter" or "Star
               | Wars" set are generic. And there's nothing stopping you
               | from making up a game/story mixing robots with your
               | wizards.
        
               | crooked-v wrote:
               | Also, even the "non-generic" parts see plenty of reuse.
               | For example, the wand pieces originally created for the
               | Harry Potter sets have regularly popped up in unrelated
               | sets as a decorative part of builds.
        
           | MisterTea wrote:
           | As a kid I had a ton of legos and my main obsession were
           | technic sets (Still have them). But, before technic sets I
           | had a bunch of the early town themed sets. So for example if
           | you bought the gas station, it comes with a little mechanic
           | figure and tow truck. Most of the blocks were standard and a
           | few specialty blocks rounded out the set like windows, doors,
           | auto chassis parts, wheels, even trees and plants. Of course
           | the majority of the blocks were generic enough so you could
           | build whatever. Even the technic sets gave you a ton of
           | freedom to build whatever.
           | 
           | Now have a look at the modern licensed sets and notice how
           | MOST of the pieces are specialty. Those specialty parts are
           | there to add more features but they are completely useless
           | outside of their intended position in the licensed puzzle.
           | How do you turn that fancy haunted house into a boat or
           | truck? Lame.
        
             | crooked-v wrote:
             | Assuming you're talking this one - https://www.lego.com/en-
             | us/product/haunted-house-10273 - I'm failing to see the
             | specialty parts, outside of a couple of things like the
             | spiderweb. Even the organ is brick-built from parts that
             | could be repurposed in a number of ways (for example,
             | exhaust pipes on a car or truck).
        
         | squarefoot wrote:
         | > If you don't like the licensed sets, or even sets with
         | instruction books, then you're still covered. Lego, Mega Bloks,
         | and others have buckets or bags of just parts.
         | 
         | Unfortunately it seems this is not true also for Meccano (my
         | favorite). By looking at their products I see only
         | branded/licensed sets and none of generic parts.
        
         | thesuitonym wrote:
         | This is it. People often complain that Lego is all about
         | licensed sets, and yeah, that type of set has taken over your
         | local toy aisle, but the regular sets are still there, and
         | there are even more of them that there used to be.
         | 
         | The only real change is that Lego gives kids more choice.
        
           | mortenjorck wrote:
           | It's not all that different from an independent record store
           | promoting the latest collectible vinyl drop to pay the bills
           | so they can continue selling niche recordings, or an
           | independent theater playing Marvel titles so they can afford
           | to run arthouse fare.
           | 
           | Lego has adopted the "keep a corporate job to fund your side
           | projects" outlook, and given the consistent results in the
           | Creator series and the continuing legacy of classic product
           | lines, more power to them.
        
             | nimajneb wrote:
             | I really enjoy the Creator series. I don't really have
             | money to spend more than $30 on a set at a time. It's also
             | cool all(?) of them are 3 in 1, so you can choose between 3
             | instructions. It's fun to mix them and build new as well.
        
       | dudul wrote:
       | One thing that has changed is the quality of some of the bricks.
       | I used to play with Legos in the 80's. I had dozens and dozens of
       | sets that my parents kept, and now my kids are playing with them.
       | Very very few pieces are broken.
       | 
       | Compare that with the current sets. My kids have a few of these
       | and parts seem to break very easily. Especially minifigures.
       | Hands, arms and "hips" deteriorate quickly. They crack slightly,
       | become loose, etc.
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | 2014? What's new since then?
       | 
       | Fairly common knowledge that Lego basically saved the company and
       | earned a ton of new money by focusing on branded sets and
       | marketing-tie-ins etc, which was a change from the generic box of
       | colored pieces and more independent-creativity-encouraging
       | approach many of us grew up with. But that ship sailed so long
       | ago and they made _so much_ money, it isn 't gonna stop any time
       | soon.
        
       | tzmudzin wrote:
       | One other change: the gradual introduction of weapons and
       | violence-related styling.
       | 
       | Back in the 80s some "minifigs" may have had sad faces, but never
       | angry/violent ones. That changed a lot over time.
       | 
       | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_and_LEGO
        
       | ezconnect wrote:
       | When I was a kid I always wanted to build a doll house because of
       | the intricate details you can see inside the house. It was so
       | hard I gave up and just bought scale model planes then use
       | firecrackers to blow them up during new year. You will never
       | experience the freedom of a kid once you're an adult.
        
       | bondolo wrote:
       | One thing that seems to have changed is the understanding of
       | impermanence. I loved the things I built with Lego but quickly
       | had to accept that none of them was permanent. Kill your darlings
       | to build the next thing. Being too enamoured with what you built
       | before reduced your options for building new creations and you
       | found that you loved nothing so much that you weren't willing to
       | destroy it to accomplish your new goals.
        
       | alfor wrote:
       | Is it still controversial that girls have different interest than
       | boys? Please stop pushing ideology and let kid be.
       | 
       | I can see it plainly with my kids and with my wife and that is
       | fine. It is just our nature expressing itself with variations
       | through each person.
        
       | biorach wrote:
       | Yes, many, but not all, Lego sets these days are more specific
       | and have more specialised parts. But in the end, most children
       | end up with a big box with a jumble of many sets, same as past
       | decades. Maybe the first few days of a new set being introduced
       | is dominated by following the instructions, but after that
       | imagination takes over.
       | 
       | My son and his friends played with Lego for over 10 years - there
       | are few toys that comes even close in terms of longevity and
       | value for money (despite the high up-front cost).
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | glanzwulf wrote:
       | Alternatively we could say Lego didn't change that much. We still
       | have Lego classic which is still quite popular and often out of
       | stock. So other than advertising I think nothing else changed
       | 
       | Now it's true that there are new alternative "lines" to bring in
       | new people, but we also had that back in the day. I remember when
       | I got my first Lego Technic for example.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | brjiro8 wrote:
        
       | SkeuomorphicBee wrote:
       | I started reading disagreeing with many points of the article, I
       | did realize that she is from a different generation then me, so
       | her "then vs now" is very different from my "than vs now". But
       | still, when I look at what sets were available when she was a
       | child I would say that her points "1. The instructions", "2. The
       | sets", and "The building method"; were based mostly on what
       | specific sets she happened to have, and no on what sets were
       | available at the time.
       | 
       | Yes, up until the 60s (before even that author's time), Lego sets
       | were mostly generic bricks with just a small set of specialized
       | pieces (just some wheels, doors and windows), for example sets of
       | the "Universal Building Set" family [0] like the one pictured
       | early in the article. But by the time of most of our childhoods
       | (the 70s or even 80s), Lego had already introduced sets with
       | plenty of specialized pieces. Also at that time they already
       | introduced some more complex sets tailored for a specific build,
       | some of them, the kind of set some people may chose to build only
       | once (as if it was a glue-on plastic model kit).
       | 
       | The thing is, most rants about old Lego being better more
       | generic, are just misguided rose-tinted nostalgia talking. Lego
       | still sells awesome generic sets, even better than the ones we
       | used to have when we were kids. They just happen to also sell
       | some hobbyist sets. For example, my son's big box consists of a
       | mix of my old 80s era (e.g. [1]) plus my niece's 00s era
       | (e.g.[2]) Legos, and I have to say that the 00s era is much more
       | generic and full of bricks, allowing for much more varied
       | imaginative play, than my old 80s spaceship sets full of large
       | single-use pieces.
       | 
       | [0] https://brickset.com/sets/theme-Universal-Building-Set
       | 
       | [1] https://rebrickable.com/sets/6971-1/inter-galactic-
       | command-b...
       | 
       | [2] https://rebrickable.com/sets/31025-1/mountain-hut/
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | I would love to know what percentage of Legos revenue is now from
       | adults buying the incredible large, complex and expensive sets to
       | build themselves. Lego is so associated as a toy for children
       | just as computer games are, but gaming is a larger industry for
       | adults than children.
       | 
       | My wife and I now regularly buy these large lego sets for each
       | other (birthdays, Christmas and anniversaries) and do them
       | together in the evenings after the kids are in bed. Its such a
       | lovely way to relax.
        
         | mcv wrote:
         | I think 1980s kids who grew up and got well-paying tech jobs
         | are their largest customer demographic now. Kids play Minecraft
         | instead.
         | 
         | That's what my oldest son said, at least; he doesn't see the
         | point in Lego now that Minecraft exists. Breaks my heart. I
         | mean, Minecraft is fantastic, but it's not Lego.
        
           | watwut wrote:
           | Overwhelming majority (but not all) of kids I know have
           | parents that limit how much they can play on computer or
           | tablet. They play with legos regularly (among other things).
        
           | BrS96bVxXBLzf5B wrote:
           | An alternative viewpoint: Minecraft is Lego, and Lego isn't.
           | 
           | When there were fewer themed Lego sets, Lego was a sandbox.
           | You had a mish-mash of generic pieces and your creativity.
           | Modern Lego sets are extremely tailored, both in theme and
           | with sets having bespoke pieces - even if you throw all of
           | your newer sets together in a pile (which people tend not to
           | because each is supposed to be _a_ thing), the pieces aren 't
           | as modular, allow for less extension of your imagination.
           | 
           | Minecraft is blocks and what you do with them. Minecraft
           | isn't a digital extension of Lego, it's serving the
           | experience Lego did a few decades ago but no longer does.
        
             | dhosek wrote:
             | There are a lot fewer bespoke parts than you might think.
             | Creating new molds is expensive and if you look closer
             | you'll see that odd shapes are reused for different
             | purposes in different sets.
        
         | Fiahil wrote:
         | > I would love to know what percentage of Legos revenue is now
         | from adults buying the incredible large, complex and expensive
         | sets to build themselves.
         | 
         | Small enough that I still can drive envy from every child in
         | the store when I buy big Technic sets. Like the huge CAT
         | Bulldozer (https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/app-controlled-
         | cat-d11-bu...) from last year.
        
         | dudul wrote:
         | I don't have a number for you, but I recently read an interview
         | of their head of the "adult division". He basically said that
         | it was their fastest growing segment. All the IDEAS sets are
         | targeted at adults and they seem to be doing very well.
        
         | mejutoco wrote:
         | Lego is working hard to make it an adult thing too. See the
         | many Lego Masters tv programs in many countries, were it is
         | mostly adults competing. I would say the have unlocked the
         | adult market, and this is why the had such good results lately.
        
         | mcphage wrote:
         | > I would love to know what percentage of Legos revenue is now
         | from adults buying the incredible large, complex and expensive
         | sets to build themselves.
         | 
         | If you have a Lego store nearby, stop in, and it's mindboggling
         | how many $100+ sets they carry. Not great for shopping for a
         | Lego Friends set for my daughter, but if I wanted to drop $300
         | on a Ninjago set they'd be able to help.
        
           | samwillis wrote:
           | Exactly, thinking though what lego we have brought each other
           | and the kids (3 and 7) in the last year we could easily be
           | spending twice as much on "adult" lego than on the kids, and
           | we get it for them even more regularly.
        
         | MivLives wrote:
         | I'd also wonder if their cost per part on the bigger sets is
         | higher or lower.
         | 
         | I've been building the adult sets over the last few years and
         | you're right it's a nice nondigital way to unwind. Unlike my
         | job everything works, has a place, and is all neat and
         | organizable.
         | 
         | Interestingly my mother who is retired has gotten into lego.
         | Initially she got into it because she decided to resell all my
         | childhood sets which were stored in a large bins. I had kept
         | all the instructions so she just build lego sets one at a time
         | and sold them off. It got her hooked, and now she regularly
         | buys used or new sets, assembles, and then resells them. It's
         | interesting to see someone get into lego rather late in life
         | with no childhood nostalgia of them what so ever.
        
           | makeitdouble wrote:
           | There was an average price by piece comparison a few years
           | ago but I can't find it back.
           | 
           | The gist of it was that price by piece didn't change that
           | much, while sets are getting bigger and more complex. I'd
           | also wagger that we now have a lot more smaller pieces that
           | make these kind of calculations more flawed.
        
             | watwut wrote:
             | It is not even that sets would be universally bigger. You
             | can buy middle sized, small and super small sets still.
             | Lego sets literally start from small bag for 5e that builds
             | something super small.
        
       | furyofantares wrote:
       | In any creative endeavor, be it lego or minecraft or anything
       | else, you can endlessly watch the global greatest hits on
       | youtube, things you have no chance of "competing" with. I have no
       | idea how this affects people growing up in this environment. Is
       | it stifling? Inspiring? Just normal, since you start out as a kid
       | not knowing how to do anything and surrounded by people who do?
       | How different is it really from how we grew up, listening to
       | professional music, surrounded by professional visual art?
       | 
       | I don't know any of the answers. But I'm grateful that my kid can
       | assemble a complex thing from a lego kit. For her, it looks
       | empowering to me. And when she's done, she almost immediately
       | starts tweaking it, then disassembles it completely within a few
       | days and the kit ends up in the pile of assorted bricks for "free
       | play."
        
         | tasha0663 wrote:
         | > you can endlessly watch the global greatest hits on youtube,
         | things you have no chance of "competing" with
         | 
         | I think it is pretty much normal. I'm reading _Art & Fear_
         | (1985) right now, and it discusses a lot of myths about talent
         | and genius that would be relevant to this.
         | 
         | Whenever my kids ask me how I got to my level of ability in art
         | or music, I make sure to let them see paintings and prints that
         | I abandoned on the way to a final piece. They see me reworking
         | things on the light box. They hear me practice and flub my
         | scales. I'm at least trying to instill the notion that there's
         | always an effort and a huge mess on the cutting room floor.
        
       | tweetle_beetle wrote:
       | I find the act of building a set and putting it on a shelf to
       | gather dust a bit sad, but big piles of similar shaped blocks are
       | also a bit uninspiring.
       | 
       | So I was pleasantly surprised to find the BricQ Motion sets aimed
       | at classroom use. They come with lessons plans and videos to give
       | some direction, but even without them it's a great self-contained
       | box with very carefully selected pieces to encourage learning
       | about physics and a pile of more "silly" pieces to add character.
       | There's a good selection of wheels, springs, weighted blocks,
       | "ropes" and Technics style pieces. They come in a segmented tray
       | and are colour coded to make finding particular blocks and
       | experiment with related blocks easier.
       | 
       | I think they're the best of both - experiment, solve a challenge,
       | learn something, build nonsense and then break it all up and put
       | it away neatly ready to do it again. Big hit compared to sets.
        
       | iamkroot wrote:
       | I was a Lego obsessed kid through the 90s and 00s, and now I have
       | a school age son who is similarly devoted to it. Lego today is
       | waaaayyy cooler than it was when I was a kid.
       | 
       | I got the very first Lego Star Wars set, Lukes X-Wing [1], and
       | while I loved it as a kid the newest Xwing that my son just got
       | [2] is so much better on every level. It's bigger, more detailed,
       | looks sleeker, and has this really clever mechanism that opens
       | the wings synchronously when you press down on a piece.
       | 
       | All the new sets are this way. The care and detail that Lego puts
       | into them has dramatically improved in the last 20 years.
       | 
       | He still takes them apart a few months after he gets them and
       | builds something new. I don't think that will ever change, the
       | thrill of making something on your own will never go away.
       | Furthermore, the online community of people making things and
       | sharing their creations has exploded since I was a child. We had
       | a single user forum (LUGnet) where a small handful of people
       | congregated. All images were uploaded to a single, tiny website
       | (brickshelf) to be shared. Now you have youtube channels,
       | instagram pages, tiktok creators, subreddits, you name it. The
       | resources available for creating and sharing your own designs is
       | massive!
       | 
       | 1: https://i.ytimg.com/vi/9yXo6HF8hTo/hqdefault.jpg 2:
       | https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/luke-skywalker-s-x-wing-f...
        
       | deltaonefour wrote:
       | >The ads were just plain awesome. Case in point: This 1981 ad
       | featuring a young girl with her Lego creation.
       | 
       | That picture of the girl holding up a lego set is only "AWESOME"
       | for parents. As a kid if I saw that I would barf. First off as a
       | little boy back then... there was no gender equality. All girls
       | were stupid and had cooties and I was a little sexist tyrant.
       | 
       | Second little boys aren't dumb... that blob of a thing made by
       | girl is infinitely less interesting then a space ship designed by
       | a professional adult with a cool color scheme. Case in point I
       | loved the M-tron series: https://imgur.com/a/bK7w8. Of course
       | being a little boy my skills were only good enough to produce
       | that multi colored blob but that doesn't change the fact that I
       | knew what quality was when I saw it.
       | 
       | This article is just an adult projecting his opinion and woke
       | sensibilities onto a kid. That being said yes it's ok for a boy
       | to like doll houses. Perfectly fine, but let's be real, legos are
       | mostly for boys and most boys would prefer dinosaurs over doll
       | houses and any advertising that doesn't target that is
       | advertising that doesn't understand the majority of its target
       | demographic.
       | 
       | My main argument is against the author of the article and their
       | complete blissful ignorance about how kids think. Lego knew their
       | shit though. That photo is an ad targetted towards parents. The
       | M-tron legos had advertising targeted directly towards me when I
       | was a kid, while this article on the other hand is an article
       | targeting parents who don't understand how kids think.
        
         | destitude wrote:
         | I think you are missing the point.. The gender equality was
         | portrayed by the company and therefore picked up by the
         | parents. Nothing to do with what little boys thought of girls.
         | Today you have marketing pre-disposing parents to thinking
         | girls should follow X interests and boys Y. This is big part of
         | why we have lack of females in STEM since for example "girls"
         | Legos shows they should just worry about beauty salons and not
         | rocket ships.
        
           | deltaonefour wrote:
           | >The gender equality was portrayed by the company and
           | therefore picked up by the parents. Nothing to do with what
           | little boys thought of girls.
           | 
           | I know. Legos has two modes of advertising. One targeting
           | parents, the other targeting kids. Both were accurate in
           | their objectives. However the article itself fails to
           | understand the psychology of kids.
           | 
           | > This is big part of why we have lack of females in STEM
           | since for example "girls" Legos shows they should just worry
           | about beauty salons and not rocket ships.
           | 
           | Don't want to turn it into a huge debate about gender stuff.
           | All I can say is I disagree. Male and female preferences
           | influence the advertising and the advertising in turn does
           | influence preference but to a much lesser degree. Many
           | studies show that the interest is innate:
           | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-equality_paradox
           | 
           | You can disagree, but there's no point in turning this into a
           | debate... let's just agree that there's controversy around
           | this area and definitely a lot of interest groups seek to
           | color this area with their own agendas.
        
             | destitude wrote:
             | It's still interesting to note that boys wore pink and
             | played with dolls in the USA 100-150 years ago.
        
               | deltaonefour wrote:
               | You can build dolls with legos. It is the act of building
               | that is really the core that draws this line of
               | demarcation IMO. Other stuff like whether pink is
               | associated with masculinity is harder to judge.
               | 
               | Additionally don't forget practically all of our
               | technology and science from the dawn of human kind (with
               | many exceptions) was built from the ground up by males.
               | That is the key, despite the exceptions, men are
               | basically responsible for all of it. It seems illogical
               | to dismiss the difference with a simple answer like
               | sexism.
               | 
               | It may be that males in the past didn't permit women to
               | enter STEM and that is WRONG. But there's also the fact
               | that males built all of STEM and no parallel structure
               | was built on the female side; that difference is worth
               | exploring as is your remark about boys wearing pink and
               | playing with dolls.
        
       | huhtenberg wrote:
       | The main difference is that the sets and instructions got way
       | more complicated and elaborate. So much so that they stifle and
       | discourage the creativity instead of feeding it.
       | 
       | The first set I had was a minuscule "mineral detector" from the
       | space set -
       | https://media.brickinstructions.com/06000/6841/001.jpg
       | 
       | There were 6-step instructions [2,3] AND there was a separate
       | page with what else was buildable from the set [4]. That was the
       | Lego magic ingredient, the most crucial part. It forced one to
       | look and think and _imagine_ how those extra models were put
       | together. That, in turn, kick-started the process of trying other
       | things. Above all, all of it was _simple_. So when you got more
       | sets you 'd look at the instructions as a starting point only and
       | then dive right into building the alternatives.
       | 
       | Modern sets have none of that. If anything, they basically
       | demonstrate that you _can 't_ possibly come up with the thing you
       | are building on your own. No way. And whatever you _can_ put
       | together will be so inferior in comparison that it 's not even
       | worth trying. It's really sad what Lego did to itself, because it
       | _was_ something magical :- /
       | 
       | [2] https://media.brickinstructions.com/06000/6841/002.jpg
       | 
       | [3] https://media.brickinstructions.com/06000/6841/003.jpg
       | 
       | [4] https://media.brickinstructions.com/06000/6841/004.jpg
        
         | watwut wrote:
         | https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/the-fox-lodge-21178
         | 
         | https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/bricks-and-houses-11008
         | 
         | https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/creative-suitcase-10713
        
         | tills13 wrote:
         | first-party extra models: https://www.lego.com/en-
         | my/service/help/bricks-and-sets/buil...
         | 
         | third-party extra models:
         | https://rebrickable.com/sets/alternates/
        
       | NeoTar wrote:
       | On behalf of all Europeans, can I express the sentiment:
       | 
       | LEGO is a brand, LEGO Bricks, or LEGO pieces are the individual
       | bricks/tiles/plates, etc. 'Legos' looks very wrong to us.
        
       | insickness wrote:
       | > Lego has become more gender stratified
       | 
       | In this day and age, I would be surprised if the Lego Friends
       | line, which was created with girls in mind, were marketed
       | explicitly to girls. My guess is that the girls stratify
       | themselves by what type of toys they are attracted to. There's
       | evidence that the preference is biological:
       | 
       | Male monkeys prefer boys' toys
       | https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13596-male-monkeys-pr...
        
         | stuckinhell wrote:
         | I have a boy and girl, I purposefully made the effort not to
         | push them into gender specific things, but hell they still
         | ended up pretty stratified. They even play minecraft
         | differently!
         | 
         | I'm convinced there is a major biological underpining after
         | watching these two grow up.
        
           | astura wrote:
           | Really weird you just jump to "biology," as I assume your
           | kids have access to media and at some point interacted with
           | someone else other than you (children and adults).
           | 
           | I didn't learn gendered behavior or thoughts from my parents
           | but I learned them from everyone else and society as a whole.
           | I learned from a very, very young age that some of my
           | interests were very much not acceptable for girls and I
           | internalized a lot of it.
        
           | bigthymer wrote:
           | > They even play minecraft differently!
           | 
           | Pls explain
        
         | captainmuon wrote:
         | That study doesn't show what most people think it does. Monkeys
         | have no idea what a firetruck is, so how could a monkey have
         | any preference towards it? The only thing they managed to show
         | is that there is a flaw in the experiment. In a sense it is the
         | ideal control question: do the monkeys distinguish based on
         | something they cannot know? A more charitable reading which is
         | mentioned is that male monkeys prefer hard shapes with wheels,
         | but I doubt that is very relevant.
         | 
         | And yes, companies absolutely do market towards boys and girls.
         | They don't write "for girls" on the box, but they consciously
         | produce two product lines. Often it is one unisex line and one
         | that is "forbidden for boys", i.e. it has pink and glitter and
         | you would be teased as a boy of you bought it. This way, they
         | can create artificial market separation and increase sales.
        
           | insickness wrote:
           | A monkey doesn't know what a firetruck is, nor is it
           | influenced by cultural pressures, such as glitter and pink
           | are for girls. The difference in gender preference is that
           | the females prefer people, such as faces and social
           | interaction and boys prefer objects such as trucks.
           | 
           | This preference was also shown in studies where female new
           | born babies tend to look at faces more than male babies.
        
         | OscarCunningham wrote:
         | All five characters of the Lego Friends line are female.
        
         | watwut wrote:
         | > I would be surprised if the Lego Friends line, which was
         | created with girls in mind, were marketed explicitly to girls.
         | My guess is that the girls stratify themselves by what type of
         | toys they are attracted to.
         | 
         | Lego themselves talked about lego friends being meant for
         | girls, publicly and loudly. Also, all characters are girls. The
         | kids in ads for lego friends are all girls too. It could not
         | have been more clear that it is for girls.
         | 
         | The other legos at that time and few years before were very
         | very clearly for boys. They used colors used for boy toys. Toy
         | stores are clearly separated to boy and girl section by color.
         | They also used themes that literally any kid over 2 identify as
         | boys.
         | 
         | ---------
         | 
         | As side note, claim that they are less about building then
         | other lego sets for same age brackets is untrue. I dont know
         | why the article felt the need to claim the difference is
         | character vs building.
         | 
         | Actual differences against other themes are colors, fight vs
         | life, indoor vs outdoor, gender of characters.
        
         | scotty79 wrote:
         | I think the point is capitalism gives people what they crave.
         | Not necessarily what they need. But any alternative is
         | unimaginable in individualized minds of modern people.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | Oh, it does give them what they need, plus loads of other
           | needs they didn't even know they had - and sometimes these
           | other needs take priority regardless of whether that should
           | be the case. I.e. they will sell you milk, which you likely
           | need, but also all possible types of cheese and yogurt and
           | cream, which you really don't but might actually end up
           | consuming more than milk.
        
             | kkjjkgjjgg wrote:
             | Cheese and yoghurt may be healthier than milk, because
             | bacteria already processed the lactose in the milk.
        
           | iqanq wrote:
        
             | bregma wrote:
             | Perhaps the reinforcement of arbitrary culture-specific
             | gender stereotypes is not the point of all toys? There are
             | plenty of other ways parents impose programming.
        
               | iqanq wrote:
               | Gender stereotypes that have existed for millenia in a
               | multitude of species are everything but "arbitrary".
        
             | rgoulter wrote:
             | I liked Deborah Tannen's remarks in the afterword of a
             | reprint of "You Just Don't Understand".
             | 
             | The book is about her observations that some conflict
             | between men & women resembles inter-cultural conflict; i.e.
             | men would talk with a different set of cultural attitudes
             | than women.
             | 
             | She said that people asked her how much that came down to
             | nature vs culture. If nature, then the differences are what
             | they are, and culture doesn't need to (and cannot
             | fundamentally) change. If cultural, then inequality would
             | reduce by ironing out the differences.
             | 
             | As I understand it, worry about gendered-for-girls toys
             | comes from the latter view. (Differences lead to
             | inequality).
             | 
             | (FWIW, Tannen's suggested solution is that differences as
             | they are now should be recognised and worked-with).
        
           | kkjjkgjjgg wrote:
           | I for one am glad that LEGO provides the girls series to get
           | my daughter interested in building things with it.
           | 
           | The photograph of the girl building things with the universal
           | bricks is just marketing, not a report from the 60ies. It
           | does not imply that girls actually did that en masse.
           | 
           | Personally I remember building houses with Lego (so walls and
           | a roof), but not much more. These days the Lego toys may
           | actually be more fun.
        
       | leokennis wrote:
       | Large amount of "old man yells at cloud" going on here.
       | 
       | Lego is still fantastic. My kids love them. They can build a cool
       | ninja car or a police plane or a house. And later recombine the
       | three into a fantasy jeep-truck combo with a ramp.
       | 
       | The bricks are durable as f*ck. They learn fine motor skills.
       | They learn to read instructions. They get creative. They role
       | play.
       | 
       | There's really no need to gatekeep Lego.
        
       | sparrc wrote:
       | A few counterpoints:
       | 
       | - LEGO still makes bins of fairly generic pieces that can be
       | built into all sorts of things: https://smile.amazon.com/LEGO-
       | Classic-Medium-Creative-Brick/...
       | 
       | - My daughter has a few LEGO duplo sets. One for example had
       | instructions for building a Minnie Mouse house, but we only did
       | that once. Now all the sets are taken apart and mixed together
       | and she pretty much builds whatever she wants, mixing and
       | building with pieces from 4-5 different duplo sets together.
       | 
       | - It's super easy to buy bins of used legos online, especially in
       | local parenting communities. I see people exchanging bins of LEGO
       | pieces all the time and usually it's just bins of pieces, no
       | instructions or defined sets or plans at all.
        
       | dirtyid wrote:
       | I was fortunate enough to have the "right" amount of legos,
       | enough that I could mostly build what I wanted but not enough
       | that I was always missing pieces / colours and pushed to engineer
       | around limitations. I credit legos to developing my mechanical
       | and spatial aptitude. I remember playing with less fortunate
       | collections and wonder if these qualities would have been stunted
       | if I had less, or if I could have been spoiled if given too much.
       | I do know I'm very envious of not growing up with minecraft where
       | having unlimited resources or being forced to manage resource
       | seem to develop more skills. What's the situation with building
       | legos in VR?
        
       | layer8 wrote:
       | The bricks also look cheaper (slightly glaze-like surface) since
       | they started using the same translucent-white pellets for all
       | colors, just with different dyes added when injecting the moulds,
       | instead of full-colored pellets, around 2000. It's also a pity
       | they changed the gray colors from neutral-warm to the bluish
       | grays, which to my eyes slightly clash with most of the other
       | colors. Along with the changes to the available bricks, sets and
       | minifigures as mentioned in the article, this made me lose
       | interest in "modern" Lego.
        
       | tasha0663 wrote:
       | > Blocks hide in the carpet until you are walking around barefoot
       | in the dark. The pain of stepping on a a sharp Lego piece is not
       | easily forgotten.
       | 
       | My first parenting superpower was the ability to step softly on
       | Lego bricks. If I'm in a serious hurry, I'll even grip the thing
       | with my foot and keep walking.
        
       | robertlagrant wrote:
       | > It would appear that, in the 1970s, equality of the sexes and
       | creativity was the end goal for Lego
       | 
       | No. Saying you can buy your daughter a spaceship and your son a
       | doll house doesn't mean that was your end goal. More likely,
       | having to come up with fewer differentiated toys to sell, i.e.
       | broadening the market, was.
       | 
       | I'm not saying that equality (although playing with
       | nontraditional toys isn't synonymous with that) be an aim, but
       | it's not the most obvious "end goal" explanation.
        
       | AtlasBarfed wrote:
       | I grew up in the classic space era (of course the best, but then
       | again everyone's childhood pop culture is "the best").
       | 
       | The #1 thing that should be emphasized is that lego is cheaper
       | than it was back when I had it. I think that's a good thing.
       | 
       | What would I really like? I'd like Lego to do re-releases of old
       | sets that are 20 or 30 years old. Or maybe megasets that re-
       | release the entire year's sets for a line (Take my money for a
       | UCS millenium falcon-pricepoint of all of the classic sets from
       | 1980/1981 re-released)
       | 
       | I bought a ton of used legos on CL (too much of course) when my
       | kiddo was born. Then I sorted them to get a feel for the new
       | pieces. I think wheels are better (there's basically 2-3 axle
       | standards which I think is an improvement).
       | 
       | I think the main bad thing is that there are too many colors and
       | shades, due likely to over-perfecting a branded set or something
       | like that (or its a conspiracy).
       | 
       | The minifigs are a bit much sometimes, but I don't think it's
       | that bad. THey still are largely minifigs.
       | 
       | The amount of cool MOC/custom builds on the internet is great.
       | The other great thing I didn't have was digital photography: I
       | didn't want to take apart my own models as a kid because I know
       | I'd never be able to rebuild them. Now you can take a whole bunch
       | of pictures to remember it and rebuild it if I wanted to.
       | 
       | I do think the overbranding of sets leads to them not being
       | deconstructed. But I bought a ton of "spare bricks" so I don't
       | think we'll have that problem.
       | 
       | When lego does an occasional "classic space"-ish set like the
       | mars rover or the mech, it is amazing. The creator sets are
       | great.
        
       | jstanley wrote:
       | Is it just me or does the letter from 1974 look like it was
       | typeset in Microsoft Word?
        
         | unfocussed_mike wrote:
         | It does.
         | 
         | And this is going to be my only comment on this topic because
         | I'm too traumatised by people pluralising "lego" with an S.
        
       | altacc wrote:
       | Most of the now & then examples are both true now. The classic
       | sets still exist and how children play with Lego depends on their
       | personality and what they have available (and how it is stored).
       | Children are individuals and Lego allows a larger variety of play
       | than most other toys on the market.
       | 
       | My kids have a mix of classic & branded sets and the play area is
       | a mix of designed builds and improvised creations. The favourite
       | and larger sets stay in their own bags when deconstructed but
       | most others are added to the common boxes, which are sorted by
       | rough shape based on what we've seen stimulates free building.
       | There are a lot of complex shapes but many of those are useful in
       | free building. I've purposely bought some sets with multiple
       | complex flats & bricks as they allow more creativity than just
       | the basic bricks.
       | 
       | But I know other children who just like to follow build
       | instructions or just like to play with the characters and that's
       | OK. That's the flexibility of modern Lego.
        
         | dfxm12 wrote:
         | _most others are added to the common boxes, which are sorted by
         | rough shape based on what we've seen stimulates free building._
         | 
         | I inherited a bunch of legos from older cousins when I was a
         | kid (and I've since donated them to a school). My parents did
         | get me a tackle box to go along with them, and sorting/putting
         | them away is as much part of the play/learning as building, I
         | think. Just like you can't really go fishing if you can't find
         | the right lure, you can't really build that spaceship if you
         | don't know where the cone piece is.
        
         | tejohnso wrote:
         | > My kids have a mix of classic & branded sets and the play
         | area is a mix of designed builds and improvised creations.
         | 
         | Amazing. My kid just wants to get the build over with so he can
         | get back to gaming or youtube, where he watches other people
         | gaming.
        
           | wffurr wrote:
           | My kid is only 3, but I am already contemplating time boxing
           | and auditing gaming and YouTube time. It seems significantly
           | more difficult than it ought to be, thanks to all the brain
           | hijacking dark patterns out there.
        
             | altacc wrote:
             | Do so, no question about it! Once most children disappear
             | down a YouTube rabbit hole of unboxing or gaming they're
             | lost. It's scary to see how addictive our modern passive
             | entertainment is. In my experience, the best thing to do is
             | start limiting from early on. My kids are still under 10
             | and it's 1 to 1:15 hours of gaming + same of TV on each
             | weekend day, never on a school day. They are hardly aware
             | that YouTube exists, they only watch it with us.
             | 
             | This takes up a lot of our time, as we're their
             | entertainment, but the times that I let go and let them
             | watch more typically come back and bite me as they haven't
             | had enough time to play & be creative and that leads to
             | tantrums and bad bedtimes. We use Google Family to control
             | their tablets and it's the timer on there that stops them
             | playing, not us, which feels fairer to them.
        
         | johannes1234321 wrote:
         | My childhood memory with Lego was the big box we had where all
         | was mixed together. This ment lomg search firnthe "right" piece
         | in the "right" color and the often resulted in finding some
         | different piece and changing plans.
         | 
         | On the side I had precious models, which were not to touch.
        
         | watwut wrote:
         | > The classic sets still exist and how children play with Lego
         | depends on their personality and what they have available (and
         | how it is stored). Children are individuals and Lego allows a
         | larger variety of play than most other toys on the market.
         | 
         | Yes. And also, many if not most kids combine approaches. Start
         | by building based on manual, then they play with it and it gets
         | gradually destroyed, then just use it is as material.
         | 
         | Have few favorite sets they keep, the rest gets destroyed and
         | used as bricks when in mood.
        
         | rob74 wrote:
         | I haven't really followed recent Lego developments, but I'm
         | relieved to see the "classic" sets still exist - although it's
         | understandable to not be aware of them, because all of the
         | advertising goes into the branded sets, probably because the
         | margin on them is much better (ok, they probably have to pay
         | some license fees to Disney, Warner or whoever, but still...)
        
         | thorin wrote:
         | I'm pleased you said that, because we also have a mixture, but
         | most of the sets that were built were broken up and are now in
         | communal boxes. This seems pretty unusual compared to most
         | parents, I guess it's mostly because the parents don't want
         | things to get mixed up. In theory we could rebuild according to
         | the instructions, but in reality it's never going to happen as
         | it would take so long to find all the pieces. Almost every day
         | my kids (Boy 6, Girl, 8) do free play with the mixed lego,
         | sometimes for hours. I'm really pleased with it, as it makes a
         | good break from Youtube etc.
        
           | patwolf wrote:
           | I wish my kids were more into free play. When their sets
           | inevitably get broken and end up in the communal box, that's
           | usually the last time they play with it. I should stop buying
           | them more sets, but as an avid collector myself I enjoy
           | getting sets as much for my own enjoyment.
           | 
           | For them I think Minecraft scratches much that creative itch
           | that Lego used to bring me.
        
             | dfxm12 wrote:
             | Necessity is the mother of invention. I played with legos a
             | lot to try and build a toy I didn't get. When I didn't get
             | a Megazord action figure one year for Christmas, I tried
             | the best I could to build something like it out of legos.
        
             | stuckinhell wrote:
             | Bingo. I think this comment nails it. Minecraft is the
             | digital lego for alot of kids these days. My youngest
             | daughter is 9 with autism, and she is always talking about
             | minecraft. She just absolutely loves it to death.
        
           | planetafro wrote:
           | This is absolutely the correct way Lego intends you to play.
           | They even make the boxes flimsy and cheap on purpose to not
           | encourage saving them. There are some Lego employees on
           | TikTok that speak of their training and "secrets" if
           | interested. Not a source of truth, but interesting none the
           | less.
           | 
           | Personally, I enjoy the modern Lego in that there is parental
           | choice. As a company, they cater to all audiences without a
           | strong opinion either way. This is the way.
        
           | altacc wrote:
           | Yes, I think a proper Lego setup for young children requires
           | the parents to set up the right environment. We devote quite
           | a bit of space to Lego so that it's always on hand and I'm a
           | bit fanatical about Lego organisation. That helps both when
           | starting a free build and also finding the pieces for an
           | official manual. Flip side is the classic pain of stepping on
           | Lego!
        
       | watwut wrote:
       | > Lego did extensive research and found that girls preferred to
       | play with the characters rather than build sets. So they created
       | the Lego Friends line where the characters own beauty salons, pet
       | boutiques and can be news reporters working on stories about
       | cakes. The sets do not come with hundreds of pages of
       | instructions because most of them are fairly simple to build. The
       | Lego Friends line is immensely popular.
       | 
       | 1.) Majority of lego sets kinds have characters in them. That
       | includes Star Wars sets, Ninja go sets, knights sets and what
       | not. Lego Friends having characters in them is not something
       | unique.
       | 
       | 2.) Also, lego sets marked for similar age brackets have
       | similarly complex manuals. It is just not true that Lego Friends
       | for 7 years old would be much less complex them Minecraft for 7
       | years old or City for 7 years old.
       | 
       | 3.) The actual study lego made and wrote about distinguished
       | "indoor vs outdoor" as differing preference between boys and
       | girls. And I think "a lot of details" in that indoor (not sure
       | about this one). This is the first time I hear about the
       | difference being "character vs building". Which does not even
       | match what sets lego makes. Knights series are all about
       | characters.
       | 
       | > Last year, Lego created a female scientist set on a limited
       | run. It sold out quickly.
       | 
       | The special thing about this was that they were based on actual
       | real world scientists. It was very much collector item.
        
       | chasing wrote:
       | I have some issues with Legos, but a lot of these criticisms do
       | not at all match my experience.
       | 
       | For example, there are a crazy number of Lego shapes these days,
       | but the degree to which they fit together satisfyingly -- even in
       | unexpected ways -- is amazing. And I love this about Legos, and
       | it's so much more interesting than just blocks. My kid builds
       | whole scenes and detailed models thanks to the wide variety of
       | little "unique" pieces.
       | 
       | And from what I've seen, sets these days are big idea factories:
       | My kid will build what's in the instructions a couple of times to
       | learn it, and then will take things apart and do his own thing
       | with it, make his own creations. I love that he gets an example
       | and learns new techniques with these big sets and then applies
       | that to his own ideas.
       | 
       | The branded Lego stuff I don't care for -- I'd rather kids think
       | about actual space exploration rather than Star Wars, for example
       | -- but I appreciate how Legos are designed and sold right now.
        
       | MikeMacMan wrote:
       | Reminds me of this brief scene from Community. RIP Michael K
       | Williams: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8e2f9j-iJo
        
         | seFausto wrote:
         | I knew this would come up! "What happened to Lego? they use to
         | be simple"
        
       | tommica wrote:
       | Some of the items here read less like lego changing, and instead
       | as the person growing from a child to a parent, and their point-
       | of-view changing (#2 and #3). Also the "now" in #5 does not even
       | mention the modern advertising in it.
       | 
       | All in all, this article from 2014 seems have not other reason to
       | exist but to attract hate-clicks.
        
       | throw7 wrote:
       | I loved the general lego sets I had as a kid. One year my parents
       | had gone on a short vacation to europe (germany?) and returned
       | with an "expert lego system" kit of a front loader. Once built
       | you could raise/lower and dump the bucket. Man I loved that thing
       | also. One can like both types of "kits".
        
       | gilbetron wrote:
       | I really dislike all the bizarre "lego ain't what they used to
       | be!" comments - they honestly come from people who haven't spent
       | time with modern legos. For reference I was born in 1970 and
       | played with legos probably from 1975-1985, and then seriously
       | picked it up again in 2012 or so when my son was old enough to
       | play with them. People paint this picture of these new legos that
       | are made up of like 5 parts that you just click together and have
       | a transformer or something. Reality is far from that - there are
       | so many cool pieces that let you build things never before
       | possible. I was going to make an analogy about it being like
       | having 100 crayon colors instead of 1, but it is more like having
       | a whole artist's toolbox at your disposal, including 100 crayons.
       | People say, "but it is too complicated!" - well then just buy the
       | classic bricks, they are easy to purchase in bulk, and you can
       | find lots of instructions all over the place for fun ideas to
       | learn with.
       | 
       | And then there's this weird idea that it is so complicated that
       | you have to build it once and then never take it apart. Please,
       | taking it apart was a huge amount of the fun for my son. He'd
       | repurpose parts into his never ending scene that sprawled a 10x10
       | area in our family room. He (and us) would play with them
       | literally daily for at least an hour, if not more, adding sets as
       | they came along. Much of it stayed in bins, just because he had
       | so much (youngest child of a youngest child, means you have lots
       | of generous Aunts, Uncles, and cousins!).
       | 
       | Even now, at 13, he literally was putting a set together with is
       | friend just yesterday. It's rarer now, since he likes the intense
       | interactively of computer-based "legos" (People Playground,
       | Minecraft, Garry's Mod, Teardown, and modding for other games,
       | not to mention VR stuff).
       | 
       | Modern legos are awesome.
        
         | kingcharles wrote:
         | I've played with Lego (never Legos) since 1980. I love the
         | modern sets. The branded sets, to me, make it even more fun.
         | You can mix a Batman mini-fig and use the branded parts to make
         | an uber-Batmobile of your own design. The Star Wars kits are
         | fantastic. I actually bought all the Friends sets for myself
         | because the brick colors are great.
         | 
         | Even today I opened my mail to find a teddy bear valentine's
         | heart Lego set from my girlfriend that is constructed from
         | clever use of generic bricks, none of which would have been out
         | of place in 1970s sets. In fact, I think Lego has become 100X
         | more creative since the advent of the Internet, where people
         | are making the more insane and elaborate constructions from the
         | simplest bricks. It's become competitive in the nicest way.
         | 
         | Lego today is thriving and is better than it ever was.
        
         | WheatM wrote:
        
         | enriquto wrote:
         | > Modern legos are awesome.
         | 
         | Indeed they are!
         | 
         | But, as much as I also dislike, like you, these bizarre
         | comments; there's one place where I drew a red line and lego
         | has sadly crossed it recently: lego sets that become obsoleted
         | because lego removes some software from the app store.
         | Previously, sets were standalone and eternal. But today you can
         | buy an awesome technic set that will become "bricked" in a few
         | years when they remove the controller software from the play
         | store.
         | 
         | This is not a theoretical concern. It has already happened
         | (even for sets that were still on sale!). It sucks big time and
         | it is really sad.
         | 
         | If at least the apps were free software, we would have
         | something to hang on to defend lego. But their current stance
         | is indefensible.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ARandumGuy wrote:
           | I mean, that isn't really new either. I had the first
           | generation Lego Mindstorms set (pre-NXT, with the old yellow
           | control brick), which required a USB device and special
           | software to edit programs on the control brick. After
           | ditching Windows XP for Windows 7, I could never get the USB
           | device, or the required software, to function properly. The
           | software and drivers just weren't maintained and updated, and
           | I could never figure out how to fix that.
        
             | xenomachina wrote:
             | I have a few RCX Mindstorms sets, and the software was
             | always a problem. Thankfully, there were some open source
             | alternatives, like http://brickos.sourceforge.net/
             | 
             | As an aside I'm pretty sure my RCX IR towers use serial,
             | not USB.
        
               | slavik81 wrote:
               | What a blast from the past. I remember the finicky IR
               | tower for uploading programs.
               | 
               | I failed abysmally at programming my Mindstorms robot. I
               | could never figure out how to make two things happen at
               | the same time, so I couldn't make both motors run at
               | once. As a result, my treaded robot could only spin in
               | circles.
               | 
               | Sadly, that was pretty much the end of my experience with
               | Mindstorms. Eventually, I gave up and put it away,
               | because it was such a frustrating experience.
               | 
               | I assume it would be easier for kids these days. It was a
               | lot more difficult to find help on the internet in 1999.
        
               | rightbyte wrote:
               | > Eventually, I gave up and put it away, because it was
               | such a frustrating experience.
               | 
               | Wasn't there a cheat sheet in the manual for the puzzles?
               | I think I only solved one without copying everything. Way
               | too hard for 11-12yo me.
        
               | xenomachina wrote:
               | Yeah, the bundled software for the RCX was pretty awful,
               | and was Windows-only. That's why I used brickOS, which
               | let me write C (or was it C++?) code to run on the RCX,
               | and it also worked on Linux.
               | 
               | The next generation, "NXT", was somewhat better (I
               | believe it's based on LabView), but I remember it being
               | ridiculously slow and unstable on Macs.
               | 
               | One of my kids uses Lego's "SPIKE Prime" at their
               | robotics club, and while I haven't used the software
               | myself, it seems much better.
        
               | rhaps0dy wrote:
               | > As an aside I'm pretty sure my RCX IR towers use
               | serial, not USB.
               | 
               | Both versions exist. Mindstorms 1.0/1.5 had serial IR
               | towers, 2.0 had USB.
        
             | kbouck wrote:
             | i always felt that it should be possible to use a raspberry
             | pi or arduino as the controller. with some tinkering i was
             | able to generate IR signals that were accepted by the power
             | functions receivers. and the power functions extension
             | cable seems like a great way to propagate an i2c bus.
             | 
             | there are some pi cases with lego pin-sized holes to help
             | interface the two.
        
         | pnathan wrote:
         | Yeah, I have been getting Legos for my kid, and man, I just
         | don't see the complaints. I'm very happy with the modern sets,
         | as happy as I was when I was a kid.
        
         | axbytg wrote:
         | This rules
        
         | ballenf wrote:
         | What I've seen is that kids get that dopamine rush from putting
         | together everything exactly according to instructions. From
         | opening the numbered bags and methodically working through
         | thick instruction booklets.
         | 
         | The problem now is that they have this expectation of
         | gratification from making something kind of perfect and their
         | own creations are less interesting and fulfilling.
         | 
         | I don't know what the name is for the idea that offering an
         | "extra" optional path can detrimentally affect the other path.
         | (I'd posit the same theory softly applies to Minecraft's
         | creative mode.)
         | 
         | But might just be my experience.
        
           | jbmny wrote:
           | I have definitely gotten that dopamine rush, and I think I
           | still do. It's probably a big reason why I'm a programmer.
           | There's a certain satisfaction you get from knowing
           | definitively that you "solved" the problem. Making music is
           | another interest of mine, but due to its open-ended, creative
           | nature, I don't think it can provide this kind of
           | satisfaction.
        
           | lovehashbrowns wrote:
           | There's nothing wrong with someone only liking the follow
           | instructions aspect of Lego and not the fully creative DIY
           | aspect.
           | 
           | I think one of the weirder parenting things is a parent
           | trying to get their kiddo to like something in exactly the
           | way the parent wants and anything else is a failure. "I built
           | my Legos without instructions and we had fun! Kids these
           | days...!"
           | 
           | But then parents don't realize they misunderstood the entire
           | point from the beginning. Legos were never a magic device to
           | make someone creative. They were always just a way to try and
           | sneak creativity into people. It just doesn't always work.
           | Some people pick up Legos and make castles and cars and all
           | this stuff, while some people pick up Legos, make a box
           | house, and give up.
           | 
           | Maybe your kiddo is secretly part of the gives up camp, but
           | it's satisfying for them to follow to build instructions.
           | 
           | What matters as a parent is that you gave them an option to
           | be creative. And that's super cool on its own, y'know?
        
             | jeremyjh wrote:
             | My son treats Lego sets like a model airplane: build it
             | once exactly to spec, put it on your shelf in your room,
             | never change it again. The one difference maybe is they
             | will get played with more.
             | 
             | Yet he's very creative with Magna-Tiles in exactly the same
             | way we played with Legos when I was a kid (I was born in
             | 1976). I do think part of the difference is the
             | presentation and marketing of the set, and how specific
             | some of the pieces obviously are. Yes, some kids can be
             | very creative with these sets, but Lego the company would
             | prefer you buy another set.
        
           | DrBoring wrote:
           | I find that I am qualified to offer the following data point.
           | 
           | My daughter is 8. She enjoys both Legos and Minecraft.
           | 
           | She mostly plays Minecraft in creative, but recently I've
           | been playing through survival with her (first time survival
           | for both of us).
           | 
           | She still enjoys building in survival. If anything, I would
           | say her survival builds are more satisfying because she has
           | to do the work of obtaining the resources, and crafting them
           | into the parts she needs. There is also the added challenge
           | of not being able to fly and to easily undo a misplaced
           | block.
           | 
           | If I'm doing a complex build like an automated farm, she
           | enjoys crafting the parts for me.
           | 
           | Back to Lego:
           | 
           | She mostly goes for the Lego Friends kits, but also has a few
           | Lego Minecraft kits. After she'd built something, she does
           | imaginative role play with her 6-yo sister. Sometimes,
           | they'll take the kits apart and rebuild into something
           | different.
           | 
           | Regarding temperament: My 8yo is pretty easy going. She is
           | generally patient and doesn't get easily frustrated when
           | things go wrong.
           | 
           | I could easily see how a different child could hate imperfect
           | Lego builds, or survival Minecraft.
        
           | onemoresoop wrote:
           | My 4- yo kid likes to build from instructions but once that's
           | done he'll take them apart and mix the pieces with all the
           | other dismantled kits making it a nearly impossible task to
           | redo the original kits. But he'd rebuild simpler variants,
           | the play factor is still there. I on the other hand am bit
           | stumped by the amount of small varied pieces. I'm thinking of
           | getting a bucket with classic pieces, perhaps non
           | branded/generic legos.
        
             | deltarholamda wrote:
             | My kids do the same. They get a set, build it, play with it
             | for a while, and then it gets deconstructed and mixed in
             | with the Big Bin O' Lego. Oddball pieces become wings, or
             | arms, or showerheads, or whatever their imagination sees.
             | 
             | To me, that's the spirit of Lego. Even as a kid, I had
             | friends who had, e.g., the Space Shuttle set, and once that
             | shuttle got built, it was sacrosanct. If I tried to pilfer
             | something from it, a blood feud would ensue.
        
         | usefulcat wrote:
         | For me, the biggest difference between Legos when you and I
         | were kids and now is that the sheer number of different pieces
         | makes it too often nearly impossible to find the piece you need
         | when building something from "the pile".
         | 
         | My kids also have a lot of Legos (by volume, more than I ever
         | had). When engaging in free play (i.e. not building a new set
         | from the instructions), I find that the things they make tend
         | to be much smaller than many of the things I built when I was a
         | kid.
         | 
         | I think this makes sense. When I was a kid, for the most part I
         | had a bunch of bricks, a bunch of girders, a bunch of plates,
         | and a bunch of smaller, more specialized pieces, but the latter
         | were used more for adding detail. So it was relatively easy for
         | me to find the pieces I needed to make something decent sized
         | and them embellish it.
         | 
         | When I look at my kids pile of Legos, it looks like 90% small,
         | specialized pieces. As a kid, I remember spending a _lot_ of
         | time looking for that one piece that I knew I had if I could
         | just find it. But nowadays, that situation is far, far more
         | common.
         | 
         | The specialized pieces make for great looking creations on the
         | outside of the box. In theory, they should also allow for great
         | looking creations during free play, but in practice it ends up
         | being too much trouble to find the pieces you need. And at that
         | point, a new set looks even more enticing than spending all
         | your time searching for pieces, so...
        
           | brimble wrote:
           | A ~550-piece set from my childhood (90s): 10 minifigs and
           | accessories, end result will fill about a 1-foot cube. Plenty
           | of room for small hands to get in and actually play with it.
           | Construction simple enough you can easily put it back
           | together if it's messed up during play, without resorting to
           | the directions. Exposed studs everywhere for easy adding-on.
           | 
           | A modern ~550-piece set, also from a line aimed at kids, not
           | one of the adult-aimed models: 3 minifigs, fills 1/3 cubic
           | foot at best because 450 of the pieces are little 1x1 and 1x2
           | plates or similar. Finished set's too small for even kid
           | hands to get in and play. If it gets messed up more than a
           | _very_ tiny bit, you 'll probably have to re-build from
           | scratch, because the construction is... very CAD, I guess.
           | All surfaces clad in smooth bricks if at all possible, making
           | adding on awkward.
           | 
           | The modern ones do have more cool mechanisms and gadgets,
           | though. Also they include extra pieces for the small ones
           | now, and more sets come with a brick tool. Those are all nice
           | changes. But the sets themselves seem to be tuned for
           | inflating part counts and looking nice on a box, not for
           | play.
        
             | secabeen wrote:
             | The sets you are looking for still exist today. For
             | example:
             | 
             | 428-piece, 1-foot cube, $55, 4 minifigs, 1994:
             | https://brickset.com/sets/6571-1/Flame-Fighters
             | 
             | 540-piece, 1-foot cube, $69, 5 minifigs, 2022:
             | https://brickset.com/sets/60320-1/Fire-Station
             | 
             | LEGO just has a much much larger catalog now than they did
             | back then (200 sets vs 800 sets.) But the classic style
             | sets are still there for you, if that's what you want.
        
               | 2muchcoffeeman wrote:
               | There's also the entire Lego Classic line which is just a
               | box of multi coloured standard bricks.
        
               | als0 wrote:
               | Am I the only one who thinks the 1994 one looks nicer?
        
               | enriquto wrote:
               | Yes, the 1994 Flame Fighters is an outstanding set! My
               | main dislike of the modern version is that the fire truck
               | does not have a ladder (that would offer a lot of
               | playability). The water gun just looks puny.
               | 
               | EDIT: still, even if I have a weakness for even older
               | fire sets, I acknowledge that the modern lego fire
               | stations are very good toys. My son has spend countless
               | hours playing with the 2016 version [0], which is
               | incredibly playable, and whose fire truck is the best.
               | 
               | [0] https://brickset.com/sets/60110-1/Fire-Station
        
               | aksss wrote:
               | The modern one reflects some... changes - the more
               | contemporary window style, and the number of minifigs
               | wearing ties in the firehouse has increased. I expect it
               | reflects an assumption of a higher tax base in legoville.
               | In all seriousness, the custom piece count is on full
               | display, where the 90's set is dominated by reusable
               | generic pieces.
               | 
               | Those outward-sloping windows in the 90's set were the
               | bomb though, useful in so many cool applications -
               | (star)ship bridges, towers, and the like. :D
        
           | dleslie wrote:
           | Organizing becomes seriously important, now.
           | 
           | I help my kids by organizing their pieces by colour, with an
           | extra box for "bits". So there's a grey box, red box, etc and
           | a box full of minifigs and assorted non-building accessories.
        
             | jurassic wrote:
             | It's generally accepted among online lego communities that
             | organizing by part/shape makes retrieval more efficient
             | than organizing by color. It's tough to find a red 1x2
             | plate in a huge bin of red pieces, but it's easy to find a
             | red 1x2 plate in a bin of small plates of multiple colors.
             | If you don't have enough parts to justify breaking down to
             | the specific part, you can do categories at whatever level
             | of granularity makes sense for your collection: bricks,
             | plates, modified bricks, rods and clips, etc.
        
           | kbouck wrote:
           | > "the pile"
           | 
           | it's essential to organize them otherwise locating the piece
           | of interest becomes too frustrating and time consuming. we
           | use a stack of tool boxes from the hardware store to organize
           | ours.
        
         | ARandumGuy wrote:
         | I feel like a lot of people look at the intricate sets that
         | cost hundreds of dollars, and conclude that Lego has abandoned
         | play and creativity. In reality, there's an abundance of kid-
         | oriented sets that are meant to be built, played with,
         | deconstructed, and modified. But those aren't the sets that get
         | shared through social media.
         | 
         | Lego has embraced the adult collector as a valuable customer.
         | But that does not mean they have abandoned the children who
         | just want to play with some Lego.
        
           | makeitdouble wrote:
           | TBF the best advice for people who only want a bunch of
           | "classic" bricks for their small child is to buy them used or
           | of some generic conpatible brand.
           | 
           | I totally understand Lego not putting any marketing power in
           | that direction and pushing so hard for more branding and
           | licensed sets.
           | 
           | The other end of the spectrum is their educational sets, but
           | then we're really into the multi hundreds of dollars sets.
        
             | watwut wrote:
             | Classic bricks are available in toy stores. Not like a rare
             | item, it is there pretty much all the time, usually at the
             | bottom shelf. And they are not expensive either.
        
             | elliekelly wrote:
             | Every so often Costco will have this giant "classic" lego
             | box for $40 which is a pretty good deal:
             | https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/bricks-bricks-
             | bricks-1071...
        
             | The-Bus wrote:
             | Every major retailer that sells Lego sets will likely carry
             | or stock some version of a "classic" set which is 1000+
             | bricks that are the same as the ones from 40 or even 50
             | years ago (just available in more colors & perhaps some
             | bricks introduced in the 80s or 90s). There's no license,
             | stickers, software, etc.
             | 
             | Most of these sets are sub-$50, so relatively affordable.
        
               | mortenjorck wrote:
               | Indeed: https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/lego-large-
               | creative-brick...
               | 
               | The promotional photos even echo that long-ago Lego ad
               | the author laments as a bygone era, with a little girl
               | building a house with no instructions (albeit the modern
               | version is perhaps unrealistically restrained for
               | something a kindergartner supposedly came up with).
        
         | MomoXenosaga wrote:
         | Companies that don't change tend to go under. Lego has to
         | innovate just like everyone else.
        
         | andrewgioia wrote:
         | 100% agreed. Our 5yo started getting into them about a year ago
         | as we sunsetted the Duplo bricks and they're by far his and my
         | favorite toys.
         | 
         | We have a bunch of Star Wars sets and while the builds
         | themselves are great, 90% of the fun has been breaking them
         | down and building our own ships and designs. I watch him
         | completely immersed in the world when he makes and flies these
         | ships around, it's amazing. I hope we're still doing it when
         | he's 13 too.
        
         | lhorie wrote:
         | But you're literally admitting that legos aren't what they used
         | to be. My exposure to legos was very similar to yours. Yes,
         | there are more variety of pieces now, and it can be both a
         | blessing and a curse, depending on what angle you squint at it
         | from.
         | 
         | In my experience, old legos had a far more rigid feeling:
         | idiomatically, sets relied heavily on the verticality of system
         | (i.e. usage of the traditional tall or short bricks). Nowadays,
         | sets come with a huge variety of 1x1 and 1x2 pieces with
         | sideways elements, and a good portion of pieces are of the beam
         | variety (i.e. pieces that require connectors to be put
         | together[0], commonly found in mindstorm sets)
         | 
         | So with a modern mindstorms set, you can build some really
         | elaborate things with high degrees of motion, in a way that
         | _is_ intended by Lego, but conversely, the traditional blocks
         | look dull in comparison. I was building some random robots w /
         | my kids a while back, and the way we approached the bricks was
         | fairly different. They largely build following the system as
         | intended. _My_ childhood techniques, by contrast, are
         | distinctly  "illegal" (according to what Lego considers
         | valid/stable brick arrangements in official sets). For example,
         | this[1] is a technique to achieve a movable joint that I used
         | to chain together to create things like arms, animal tails,
         | etc.
         | 
         | The entertainment environment for kids has also changed,
         | through no fault of Lego itself. Despite the availability of
         | high range of motion components, there are so many other ways
         | for kids to entertain themselves nowadays that it would just
         | never occur to them to exploit Legos in unintended ways the way
         | I did.
         | 
         | [0] https://img.brickowl.com/files/image_cache/larger/lego-
         | dark-...
         | 
         | [1] http://www.publishyourdesign.com/design/102080
        
           | rightbyte wrote:
           | > For example, this[1] is a technique to achieve a movable
           | joint that I used to chain together to create things like
           | arms, animal tails, etc.
           | 
           | It can only revolve a little before the next "button" hit the
           | fork, right?
           | 
           | EDIT: Nvm it should be able to bend alot. I am going to steal
           | that technique. =)
        
             | lhorie wrote:
             | No, the second button is clear from the tip of the top
             | piece, so that specific configuration has a range of motion
             | of well over 270 degrees. It isn't considered kosher by
             | Lego because obviously the second button does eventually
             | hit the side of the top piece and if you force it, you can
             | break your build or damage a piece.
             | 
             | You can, of course, modify it to use a tall brick and some
             | 1x1 flats to achieve a swiss-army knife setup[0] with a 360
             | degrees range of motion. I'd use this variation for things
             | like retractable wings.
             | 
             | [0] http://www.publishyourdesign.com/design/102082
        
       | wiredfool wrote:
       | Eh, I think the biggest change is that technic style bricks are
       | pushed down much farther in the line than they used to be (late
       | 70's early 80's). There are a lot more moving parts, more wheel
       | and tire styles, and the average part is now a 1x or flat rather
       | than a full height 2x4. There's also just a lot more sets and
       | options.
       | 
       | The other big change is that all of the sets have instructions
       | that the kids seem to start out following, and some of that comes
       | from the branding, but some also comes from the more complicated
       | nature of the more technic style sets.
       | 
       | There are a couple of unique parts per set, but nowhere near what
       | most pundits claim. Most of the parts are interchangable for
       | builds, especially if you're not too worried about the colors.
       | 
       | (source, 3 kids now in their teens with 10+ years of someone
       | getting at least one set for christmas/birthday, and 1/3 m^3 of
       | lego that's less and less used now. And my own collection of ~
       | 1/2 ft^3 from way back when)
        
       | shimonabi wrote:
       | Are resin 3D printers any better than FDM in printing Lego
       | bricks? I hope they get good enough so that every kid can make
       | all the pieces.
       | 
       | It's a shame that a new 8880 kit costs an arm and a leg.
        
         | lnsru wrote:
         | There is no problem buying the parts separately needed to build
         | such model. Of course, some exotic parts were discontinued.
         | Lego provides instruction as pdf on their website.
         | 
         | Edit: the other brick manufacturers have problems replicating
         | brick quality with injection molding machines. I assembled
         | thousands Lego parts with my son and their fit was exactly the
         | same - perfect. The Chinese kits have one in hundred parts that
         | doesn't fit well. However it was one in ten some years ago,
         | Chinese learn fast.
         | 
         | I doubt one can 3D print anything as Lego replacement.
        
           | Xylakant wrote:
           | Competitor brick quality is on par or better than Lego at
           | least for some. You need to do a little research on which
           | competitors use which brick producer, but for example the
           | bricks I've had in the Mould King sets were absolutely
           | indistinguishable from Lego bricks in quality.
        
             | lnsru wrote:
             | Building Mould King right now. The difference is almost
             | gone. Cada is worse than Mould King. Anyway with 5x price
             | difference I can live with a bit lower quality. Lego
             | pricing is just sick. Even used sets from not that distant
             | past.
        
         | rkangel wrote:
         | There are two counterpoints that mean that this is unlikely to
         | be what happens:
         | 
         | Lego bricks are made to micron tolerances. When you add up
         | tolerancing errors over 10 or 50 bricks in a row the
         | differences can add up and things don't fit. This is a big part
         | of how Lego saw off the cheap competition - they were generally
         | not satisfying to build. This is achieved with very careful
         | injection moulding, and the only rapid prototyping tool at that
         | level of precision is 3D CNC.
         | 
         | There is more to the sets that pieces of plastic. Look at
         | Warhammer - the figures are all plastic, they could easily be
         | 3D printer, they might not look quite as good but they'd work
         | just fine. Yet, Games Workshop sells set after set. Lego sets
         | are also designed, come with instructions etc. There's more
         | than just the components.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | The tolerance to which Lego bricks are fabricated is impossible
         | to achieve using affordable gear.
        
         | captainmuon wrote:
         | You can make Duplo blocks. I printed some nice adapters that
         | let you build a bridge for wooden Brio railroad tracks, with
         | Duplo stands. And it think you could make specialty parts, like
         | it excavator arms. But for regular Lego pieces, printing is too
         | expensive and not accurate enough (don't know about resin, but
         | I can imagine it is not flexible enough or too toxic?).
         | 
         | What's really holding us back is copyright. I wish there were
         | high quality Ninjago or especially Star Wars clones.
        
         | cracrecry wrote:
         | They have much much better quality, but the resin is usually
         | brittle compared with ABS.
         | 
         | Also it releases fumes that are extremely bad for children.
         | There are quality resins but costing $100 per litter or so.
         | 
         | Today with 3d printers you just can print connectors and
         | connect aluminum beams and wood boards to do whatever you want.
         | 
         | I teach children to cut wood boards with a fret saw and to mark
         | holes that we drill super fast with a column drill machine.
         | 
         | They also know how to create basic shapes with the FDM machine,
         | and print standard connector sets.
         | 
         | They have today way more advanced options that Legos.
        
         | mcv wrote:
         | A friend prints lego rail tracks that don't exist but should.
         | 
         | For regular bricks, however, Lego's manufacturing process is
         | incredibly precise in a way that I don't think 3D printing will
         | ever be.
        
         | hughrr wrote:
         | It'd cost more money and time to print inferior parts.
        
       | The-Bus wrote:
       | Today's Parent dot com, what you've just said is one of the most
       | insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your
       | rambling, incoherent article were you even close to anything that
       | could be considered a rational thought. Everyone on this site is
       | now dumber for having read it. I award you no points, and may God
       | have mercy on your soul.
       | 
       | With that out of the way, let me try and address this article, as
       | someone who played with LEGO bricks in the 1980s and 1990s and
       | has offspring that do so today:
       | 
       | 1. The Instructions: There are more instructions in sets that are
       | complex. The Model Team truck and helicopter set had 1,000+
       | pieces and tons of instructions almost thirty years ago. [1]
       | There are still sufficient sets that are not complex and a wide
       | variety of sets that come with no instructions. Not a valid
       | argument.
       | 
       | 2. The sets: Again, another fallacy. Non-branded sets still
       | exist. Branded sets existed twenty years ago. This is a complaint
       | about bad parenting (giving in to every demand from your
       | children), not Lego.
       | 
       | 3. The building method: Another fallacy. The building methods are
       | up to individuals. You are free to buy whatever set you want and
       | build whatever you want. You are, in fact, still allowed to take
       | apart sets the day after you make them. (I notice that my
       | children are very excited to do this as I was at their age but I
       | am not).
       | 
       | 4. Gendered toys: I have pored over local bylaws, UN directives,
       | and have asked my priest. You can buy a Lego Friends set for your
       | son, and a Lego Speed Champions set for your daughter. This is a
       | parenting problem, not a Lego problem.
       | 
       | 5. The advertising: This may be a valid point, but not for this
       | argument because it does not affect the toys themselves any more
       | than I could buy Legos at Toys R Us thirty years ago but not
       | today.
       | 
       | 6&7. The blocks & minifigs: Simple blocks are still available and
       | you can build exclusively with those if you wish. Minifig choices
       | are better as it allows to build different things (i.e. the cast
       | of Top Gear UK).
       | 
       | 8. Branding: I don't like branding in Lego, but this has been the
       | case for at least twenty years. If you don't like the branding,
       | you can buy unbranded sets.
       | 
       | 1 =
       | https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?S=5590...
        
       | thrower123 wrote:
       | You have to go way, way back to the 70s or very early 80s for
       | some imagined Golden Age of Lego where the things this article is
       | moaning about were not the case.
       | 
       | The most concerning issue with Lego to my mind is that they seem
       | to be creatively bankrupt. Licensed IP kept the company afloat in
       | their dark days, but they don't even try to put out their own
       | themes anymore.
        
       | flerchin wrote:
       | Soda was sweeter when I was a kid. The playgrounds were taller. I
       | never needed money. Cartoons were so good I could sit and watch
       | them for hours after school everyday, and the advertisements
       | never bothered me. My computer had a 4MB hard drive, and that was
       | enough for everything I ever needed. My Dad still loved my mom...
        
       | onpensionsterm wrote:
       | That's not the original minifig. That's not even the original
       | minifig that had a face.
       | 
       | https://blog.hobbydb.com/2018/11/05/the-evolution-of-lego-mi...
        
       | ilikerashers wrote:
       | Trying to buy lego for kids these days is a nightmare.
       | 
       | I went looking for a spaceship lego set. Just a simple rocket or
       | something.
       | 
       | Instead it's heaps of adult themed/Star Wars/NASA licensed stuff.
       | The alternative seems to be a bucket of standard bricks.
       | 
       | The adult orientation of LEGO these days makes me hesitant to buy
       | it.
       | 
       | I don't mind Adults having LEGO sets, I do mind if that becomes
       | so lucrative it stops kids being able to enjoy it.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | mmustapic wrote:
         | A simple spaceship
         | 
         | https://www.lego.com/en-be/product/space-shuttle-adventure-3...
        
           | ilikerashers wrote:
           | You have to sift through pages to find this one and it is 50
           | euro for a small set.
        
             | onychomys wrote:
             | In my head, Euros are worth basically the same, maybe a
             | little bit more, than USD. But the US version of that set
             | is only $40 (although it's sold out, so maybe the EU
             | version is higher in price due to scarcity).
             | https://www.lego.com/en-us/product/space-shuttle-
             | adventure-3...
        
               | em-bee wrote:
               | EU has about 20% VAT, but even taking that into account
               | it's still more expensive
        
         | mcphage wrote:
         | > I do mind if that becomes so lucrative it stops kids being
         | able to enjoy it.
         | 
         | I've got 3 young kids, and trust me, that's nowhere near
         | happening. Kids love lego.
        
           | ilikerashers wrote:
           | It was about making it accessible. No doubt they love it!
        
       | gjvc wrote:
       | Lego, singular. Never "Legos".
        
       | ysamjo wrote:
       | Lego really dialed the monopoly rent to 11. I wonder what the
       | material cost for a 2,000 pieces set really is? After all it's a
       | bunch of formed plastic pellets. My journey and a product idea:
       | https://medium.com/hyperlinked/whats-missing-creator-platfor...
        
         | tills13 wrote:
         | Seems like you're missing the part where they have to pay
         | someone (or more accurately, entire teams of people) a lot of
         | money to actually come up with the set idea and instructions.
         | 
         | Boiling LEGO down to just "a bunch of formed plastic" is
         | criminal.
        
       | shantara wrote:
       | I went through an experience of picking up LEGO Christmas gifts
       | for my little cousins (boys and girls, age 6-11). It was very
       | difficult to find anything that wasn't a promo for a massive
       | Disney franchise. After filtering by the age group and removing
       | all comic book/movie/cartoon tie-ins on LEGO website, what was
       | left was just several options for each child.
       | 
       | I may be misremembering, but when I was a kid in the 90s there
       | was a much larger variety of sets to pick from. As a space nerd I
       | love their ISS, Shuttle and Apollo themed sets, but it's still
       | disappointing how limited are their kids' options these days.
        
       | rnernento wrote:
       | Legos are still one of the most satisfying toys to buy your
       | children. Yes they are expensive, yes it's annoying that a lot of
       | them are built just once. That being said when you look out at
       | the competition the bar is low.
       | 
       | I have a 5 and 3 year old and watching them patiently page
       | through the instructions and put together something complex that
       | they really care about is incredibly satisfying. Some of the sets
       | have relatively complex mechanisms in them as well (I'm thinking
       | specifically of the Lego Friends Shopping Mall and the Minecraft
       | sets) and the kids are forced to understand them at least on some
       | level.
       | 
       | I don't know that my daughter would be interested in classic
       | Legos, it's Lego Friends that caught her and will keep her in
       | front of a 200 page instruction manual for 4 hours and in my mind
       | there's nothing wrong with that.
        
         | tills13 wrote:
         | > yes it's annoying that a lot of them are built just once
         | 
         | how is this a point people are hung up on. nobody is telling
         | anyone they can only build a set once. hell, Lego has even
         | started offering "alternative instructions" for certain sets to
         | encourage you to take it apart and rebuild it.
         | 
         | You can do whatever you want with LEGO after you buy it and it
         | has never been a better time to be an enthusiast.
         | 
         | People just like complaining about now vs. the Good Old Days
         | (tm)
        
           | rnernento wrote:
           | I can speak to this a little, the issue is that the sets are
           | designed to not be as friendly to rebuilding. The walls and
           | floors to buildings are made out of very specific pieces that
           | aren't easily reconfigured into new structures.
           | 
           | Honestly some of it is so weird that I think they do it on
           | purpose specifically to discourage re-use.
        
         | nix23 wrote:
         | >That being said when you look out at the competition the bar
         | is low.
         | 
         | Bluebrixx, Cobi and Xingbao are probably much better.
        
           | theshrike79 wrote:
           | Haven't tried those specific brands (and they tend to change
           | brand every time they get sued), but I had a bunch of Lepin
           | and whatever else.
           | 
           | You can tell the difference if you start mixing pieces. The
           | official ones SNAP together, the cheapo copies just smush and
           | don't really stick. They tend to get loose way faster too.
           | 
           | They're good if you want to get that 5000 piece car, build it
           | and put it on a shelf. But if you're looking for something
           | you can give to your kids and grandkids, get the real deal. I
           | still have the same lego sets I got when I was a kid and now
           | they're with my kids.
        
             | cardanome wrote:
             | Competition has made huge quality leaps in recent years.
             | They can not be compared to Lepin anymore.
             | 
             | Cobi, a Polish Company, has actually better quality than
             | Lego and is the only one producing in the European Union.
             | 
             | The Chinese brands are already at 95% percent there,
             | especially as modern Lego is actually getting worse (and
             | probably producing in the same factories anyway). Sadly the
             | remaining 5% can make all the difference and can be a bit
             | frustrating at times but we should hopefully see parity
             | soon especially a those brands try to go into the quality
             | segment more and more.
             | 
             | As an adult, I don't see a reason to pay Lego prices when I
             | can have nicer and bigger sets for much cheaper. I can cope
             | with a little bit of frustration and some pieces not being
             | perfect.
             | 
             | For children though, yeah Cobi or Lego any day.
        
             | em-bee wrote:
             | quality of alternative bricks has improved remarkably over
             | the last few years. and the reputable importers of chinese
             | brands pay attention to not import cloned sets and make
             | sure that the MOC sets they get are properly licensed from
             | the MOC designers. so what you get is much better than what
             | it used to be.
             | 
             | bluebrixx is a german brand btw. they import many chinese
             | brands but also design and produce their own sets. they
             | recently started producing officially licensed star trek
             | sets.
        
           | thot_experiment wrote:
           | I would be absolutely floored if any of those other toy brick
           | manufacturer had the quality of LEGO, they are injection
           | molding wizards.
        
             | Xylakant wrote:
             | I haven't tried a kit of those three mentioned, only other
             | competitors, but brick quality hasn't been any different
             | from Lego.
        
               | wink wrote:
               | I have one Cobi model and while it hasn't been playtested
               | by a kid longterm the bricks look solid and the model
               | looks good.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | Doesn't the actual injection molding happen in China
             | anyway? Wouldn't it be more surprising if the Chinese
             | didn't learn the tricks of the trade by now?
        
               | japanuspus wrote:
               | No, for Lego the injection molding is strictly
               | headquarter business. To the extend that the old
               | molds/tools are literally encased in concrete beneath the
               | buildings (you can see examples if you go to "Lego House"
               | museum at the headquarters in Billund, Denmark).
        
               | amelius wrote:
               | So, no patents, but trade secrets?
        
             | nix23 wrote:
             | Ah yes checkout Bluebrixx, they are German...the
             | quality...not where it's produced of curse.
        
               | cardanome wrote:
               | I am a big Bluebrixx fan but the quality is a bit shite
               | at the moment.
               | 
               | Their medieval sets are stunningly beautiful. Probably
               | the best looking set on the market.
               | 
               | They are great for experts but definitely not great as a
               | casual first buy for people that try Lego alternatives.
               | They love to use insane build techniques that are fun for
               | experts but not really suited for beginners.
               | 
               | The Star Trek series has been a huge disaster for both
               | design issues but also quality of pieces. They have
               | serious stability issues and barely hold together. I am
               | unironically considering plastic glue for my models.
               | 
               | They are constantly improving and I am sure the kinks
               | will get worked out but currently I can only recommend
               | them for people that like a challenge. Again, they have
               | some stunningly beautiful sets and are worth keeping an
               | eye on but do not buy them for children or inexperienced
               | people.
        
               | em-bee wrote:
               | interesting, the reviews that i saw about the star trek
               | models pointed out some issues but were not as bad. and
               | besides that i have not seen any other star trek set that
               | was better, with the exception of the mega bloks one, but
               | their way to connect the warp nacelles i would consider
               | cheating.
        
               | cardanome wrote:
               | Yeah, some things are really difficult to do any better
               | with standard pieces but honestly that can't be excuse.
               | The quality of pieces that xingbao can deliver is simply
               | not up to the task and they should have expected that.
               | 
               | Plus the pressure that is put in the pieces by the weight
               | of the models might cause them not age well. So the
               | benefit of using standard pieces might not be that great
               | in this case.
               | 
               | As for the reviews, Held der Steine is sadly very biased
               | towards towards Bluebrixx. Look at the comments under the
               | last video where he shows the big Enterprise. They are
               | extremely negative.
               | 
               | Also quality is very inconsistent. Some people are very
               | lucky and get good pieces while some others have less
               | luck. So you can't really know if you get a good batch.
               | 
               | Honestly they are still OK display pieces but the price
               | is not really justified by the quality.
        
               | em-bee wrote:
               | i have read through the comments. most complain about the
               | price and the hanging nacells. none of the commenters
               | have built this model yet. most sound self righteous and
               | they were never going to get this thing anyways. i'll
               | wait until i see more reviews from people who actually
               | built the thing.
               | 
               | maybe i am biased towards lego alternatives, but i don't
               | think that the same model with original lego bricks is
               | going to be any better. i highly doubt that the quality
               | of xingbao bricks is the problem here.
               | 
               | rather this model is at the limit of what plastic can
               | hold, and unless you cheat, like mega bloks, i don't
               | think it is possible to do better.
               | 
               | in my personal opinion, if the model doesn't fall apart,
               | then the quality of the bricks is good enough. yes, there
               | are issues with inconsistent quality, and i have seen
               | models that actually do fall apart. if that happens, then
               | criticism is justified. but for the model as presented in
               | the video, i didn't see such quality issues, and hence i
               | don't agree that the review was biased.
        
           | rnernento wrote:
           | Sorry to be clear, when I say competition I mean non-lego or
           | knockoff toys, things like LOL Surprise or Shopkins, or Paw
           | Patrol figures.
        
         | fullstop wrote:
         | I got some of the Lego Elves sets for my daughter, but the line
         | was later discontinued and prices skyrocketed. I ordered some
         | Communist Bricks / "Illegos" from Ali Express, and the quality
         | was decent if you wanted them to sit on a shelf. Some of the
         | parts, though, did not hold up to "play time" and I had to buy
         | a few critical components from bricklink to put the dragon's
         | wings back on.
         | 
         | My daughter loves the intricate Friends sets, but dislikes the
         | Friends minifigs.
         | 
         | edit: you may find this interesting --
         | https://brickset.com/article/38929/a-survey-of-communist-leg...
        
           | The-Bus wrote:
           | The Friends minifigs are terrible! Their hair never stays on.
        
             | fullstop wrote:
             | The fact that the legs don't move independently of each
             | other is what she dislikes.
        
       | Fnoord wrote:
       | > Lego did extensive research and found that girls preferred to
       | play with the characters rather than build sets.
       | 
       | I barely _role_ played with Lego, I was all about building (first
       | by following the exact instructions, then by ignoring them and
       | trying to figure it out on my own, and finally by building my own
       | stuff based on my own imagination). When I became about 11 or 12
       | I finally got, via a friend, into roleplaying, with Lego (I got
       | bored of the other 3 purposes). He used the lego in the garden
       | and made entire plays with stories, and I joined in, and we co-
       | interacted a lot. I didn't even know you could _roleplay_ like
       | that!
       | 
       | His parents and me, we kinda didn't like each other (they were
       | quite hardcore Christian, while my parents were more loose
       | Christians who let me decide for myself and I was atheist from
       | elementary school because even at age 5 or 6 I asked questions
       | with answers which I found inconsistent in [the] religion and
       | ended up seeing it as just a story). Eventually that difference
       | between us ended our friendship. I look back fondly to my past
       | friendships.
        
       | asiachick wrote:
       | I thought the Mario sets were pretty awesome. My friends kids
       | showed me there and I had to have them too. Mario also Bluetooth
       | connects to a smartphone for various activities and there are 3d
       | rotatable build instructions
       | 
       | https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Fq3hw4imZ3g
        
       | kergonath wrote:
       | I was a kid in the 1990s, and my parents were already making the
       | same complaints (except for the film merch one). The kits haven't
       | changed that much in the last 30 years. At least those for kids;
       | there weren't many kits for adults back then.
       | 
       | I hate the branded kits with a passion (Batman and the others),
       | but thankfully there are many others available, including great
       | ones. I would have killed for a rocket like the newer ones when I
       | was 10. OTOH recent trains are not much better than older ones.
        
       | Andrex wrote:
       | Good. If Lego won't evolve, they'll die. I'm glad Lego is still
       | around and thriving, as that didn't always seem like it would be
       | the case (from my personal experience as a kid).
        
       | bluefirebrand wrote:
       | All I want from Lego these days is a reintroduction of a full
       | medieval Castle style lineup again.
       | 
       | If they did I think I would collect and build the entire lineup.
       | I see things like the Medieval Blacksmith set and I want an
       | entire village and castle like that theme.
        
       | chillingeffect wrote:
       | What about:
       | 
       | 1. Massive online community
       | 
       | 2. Virtual simulators
       | 
       | 3. Part numbers and 2nd hand retail
       | 
       | 4. Computer and phone interfaces
       | 
       | 5. Patent expired so more community
        
         | DocTomoe wrote:
         | > 5. Patent expired so more community
         | 
         | This should probably read "competition". Some of the stuff
         | secondary brands offer puts shame to Lego, both in creativity
         | as well as in pricing. Bluebrix and Xingbao both have models
         | that are a lot more playable than anything Lego has ever
         | offered.
        
         | jacquesm wrote:
         | Their patent was bogus anyway.
        
       | mcv wrote:
       | > Now you don't have regular Lego cops and robbers--you have
       | Batman and the Gotham criminals.
       | 
       | You also still have regular Lego cops and robbers. Cops and
       | robbers is still by far the largest sub-theme of the City theme.
       | Almost every set, even some sets that aren't about cops and
       | robbers at all, will have a cop and a robber in there.
        
         | wmeredith wrote:
         | That was a particularly weird gripe, considering some of the
         | themes that have in fact been replaced by licensed stuff
         | (looking at you LEGO Space/Star Wars) but the cops and robbers
         | is definitely not one of them. The LEGO City theme has always
         | been packed with cops and robbers and still is to this day.
        
       | MarkusWandel wrote:
       | Genuinely curious: Has anyone here personally experienced a <20
       | year old doing real engineering with the modern "studless"
       | technical Legos? You can find truly awesome contraptions on
       | Youtube, sure. But has anyone seen it first hand?
       | 
       | The old "build from the bottom" Lego Technic was just so inviting
       | for technical tinkering. We built all kinds of machinery out of
       | them. Not kids any more on this occasion; we dug out the Legos
       | from the late 1970s to play with them just for fun once we were
       | grown up. But representative.
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw3dUbRfMSw
       | 
       | The "What it is, is beautiful" aesthetic. Who cares what colour a
       | piece is; it's the shape that matters.
       | 
       | In this respect, Lego has changed. Sure you can still get buckets
       | of basic parts to build with, but the Technic sets of easy-to-
       | engineer-with parts, with lots of the studded beams and the ever
       | so handy 40 tooth gears have gone away.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | orthoxerox wrote:
         | I remember my old studded Technic sets fondly. Back then you
         | could at least see what you were building a few steps in. I
         | bought and built a Jeep Wrangler set a couple of months ago,
         | and I have no idea if I will ever be able to come up with an
         | original Technic design myself using modern studless beams. I
         | had no idea what I was building at least halfway into the
         | instruction booklet.
        
         | oaiey wrote:
         | LEGO Technic is different. I was a vivid user as child and now
         | as adult I rediscovered it. It is indeed more challenging to
         | build inside out (what you need with the new beams/pins) than
         | bottom up (old stackable & studded beams).
         | 
         | I however, would not agree with your statement that this block
         | kids. I think nowadays tinkering is possible with so many more
         | things than when I have been small. I had LEGO and
         | alternatively real tools with wood. Nowadays, you have that and
         | also things like Minecraft, Gravitrax, City Skylines, ..
         | 
         | Also LEGO Technic is too expensive. I luckily bought the 42082
         | giving me 4000pc for 160EUR ... but usually that many pieces
         | would go for 400EUR. And what I have is a bare minimum to build
         | something meaningful like a robot arm, plotting thingy, some
         | cars, etc. The modern Technic motors/battery hubs are also
         | extremely expensive (ignoring the other flaws).
         | 
         | I think the kids have so many choices that they do not pick up
         | LEGO Technic for the price.
        
       | belval wrote:
       | It's fun when you read an article about lego changing and realize
       | that the author is old enough that the "new" legos he's talking
       | about are actually the legos you played with when you were ~6-7
       | years old.
       | 
       | Take it from an adult raised with "new" legos, if your kid has
       | some imagination, it does not really matter if the kit is made
       | with simple bricks or more complex pieces with a rudimentary
       | mechanism, I had ton of fun with those.
        
         | kzzzznot wrote:
         | This is a really refreshing point.
        
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