[HN Gopher] Albania's Goal of Making "The First Wild River Natio...
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Albania's Goal of Making "The First Wild River National Park in
Europe"
Author : dnetesn
Score : 113 points
Date : 2022-02-06 11:15 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (worldsensorium.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (worldsensorium.com)
| cool_dude85 wrote:
| Does anyone know if there's a corresponding group in Greece
| working on the same goal? I'd hate to imagine a whole river as a
| national park but on the other side of the border they're dumping
| fertilizer and building dams.
| advisedwang wrote:
| Wikipedia seems to suggest the Greek side is already within
| Vikos-Aoos National Park. I'm not sure if that covers the whole
| Greek course of the river.
| nedsma wrote:
| Definitely a great initiative. I was made aware what irreversible
| damage so called small hydro plants are doing to these creeks and
| rivers. Pretty much all they do is to generate additional revenue
| to local tycoons, while producing insignificant amounts of
| energy.
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| Maybe a little harsh. Rivers do nothing but jam up and break up
| logjams, have for millions of years. Maybe it's healthy.
|
| Here in the US, the environment was mostly chains of stagnant
| beaver ponds for millennia. It was the Iroquoi Confederacy that
| kilt them all, broke up the dams. For money - beaver hats in
| Europe were all the rage. Remade the topology of a continent in
| a few score years.
|
| So it works both ways.
| stazz1 wrote:
| In the Egyptian Book of the Dead, one of the things you had
| to attest to at death was that you had "never willfully
| blocked the flow of a river" -- makes sense given the
| prominent importance of the Nile. With respect to your
| comments, I think that temporary logjams and permanent human
| dams are not comparable.
| JoeAltmaier wrote:
| Remains to be seen if the human dams are permanent!
|
| In the scheme of nature, humans are just a blip so far.
| iqanq wrote:
| >Albania
|
| >Europe
| sibane wrote:
| Curious thing to fixate on. Are you perhaps implying that the
| presence of Islam and their Communist past turn make them un-
| European? Despite being geographically situated right between
| Rome and Athens?
| lacksconfidence wrote:
| Perhaps you were thinking Algeria? Albania is found nearby
| Greece and Italy, certainly European.
| nexuist wrote:
| As an Albanian myself I have yet to meet anyone who thinks
| Albania isn't European who also actually lives in a European
| country.
| trompetenaccoun wrote:
| I'm pretty sure the person was joking.
|
| Or they just hate Albania, but in that case the likelihood is
| higher that they're actually from Europe and maybe even from
| the Balkans themself.
| pell wrote:
| Your point being?
| sprak wrote:
| This is a nice goal. Will it be the first i Europe? No, Sweden
| has four such protected rivers:
| https://sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sveriges_national%C3%A4lvar
|
| I'm sure many other countries have such rivers as well
| [deleted]
| medo-bear wrote:
| Yes, nice goal but the claim is exaggerated. In neighboring
| Serbia there is the Tara National Park [0], and nearby to this,
| but in Bosnia & Herzegovina, there is the famous Sutjeska
| National Park [1], which is one of the two last remaining
| primeval forests in Europe. That said, significant threats are
| still posed by potential exploitation of areas and rivers
| surrounding protected zones [2].
|
| [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_(mountain)
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sutjeska_National_Park
|
| [2]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buk_Bijela_Hydroelectric_Power...
| grujicd wrote:
| Tara the river is in Montenegro, not to be confused with Tara
| the mountain which is in Serbia.
| medo-bear wrote:
| Thank you for that. I actually did confuse the two! The
| Tara river [0] and the Tara Canyon [1] are absolutely
| amazing! To add to the confusion all the mentioned national
| parks are very close to eachother
|
| [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_(river)
|
| [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tara_River_Canyon
| dagw wrote:
| None of those rivers are national parks though (although some I
| believe might run through a national parks). National parks
| have even stricter requirements and restrictions.
| sprak wrote:
| Albania is roughly the size of Maryland and Sweden is slightly
| bigger than California. So one protected river in Albania would
| be very good news.
| dmix wrote:
| > there are eight dams planned--large ones. With the tributaries,
| there are another 36 or 37 dams planned. The specifics are always
| changing--[but] currently the number is roughly 45 dams in the
| entire river basin.
|
| That sounds like a really aggressive engineering plan (probably
| with its own low carbon packaging). I can see why that would be
| destructive.
| sgc wrote:
| Anybody who thinks you have 10 bucks asks you to invest in a
| micro hydro venture there. It's not planned, those are mainly
| just a bunch of randos who want to build their own dams. I am
| glad these guys are trying, but my hopes are low.
| PrancingPony wrote:
| Regardless if it's first or not, this is a great goal.
| fersarr wrote:
| The video makes me want to go and explore it!
| Cthulhu_ wrote:
| Honestly I've had a period earlier in life where I had some
| opportunities for traveling and didn't take it because I'm
| cheap and traveling alone blows, but touring other countries
| and continents is still on my bucket list. And countries like
| Albania are easily overlooked due to low media exposure,
| stereotyping, and former-soviet-union things.
|
| But Albania, Slovenia, Croatia and Hungary should be really
| nice places to visit. I don't know about Serbia or
| Bosnia/Herzegovina, I only know anything about that from media
| coverage during the 90's.
| grujicd wrote:
| Serbia has nice things to see (Tara mountain, Belgrade,
| etc.), but if you make a Balkan tour you should not skip
| Montenegro. They have everything - nice seacoast with a
| number of old cities, mountains, lakes... And it's all
| condensed in small country, meaning daily trips will give you
| a lot of variety.
|
| Just don't go there July-August since it's packed full of
| tourists and traffic jams are everywhere. May, June or
| September are the best.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| Just a note that working as a remote developer(counted as export)
| there is no VAT and no profit-tax in Albania until ~$125K/year of
| revenue. It's 15% if you pass $125K though (for total profit).
| consumer451 wrote:
| Honest question I find myself asking these days about new
| places: are you generally safe flashing some wealth in Albania,
| as a single foreigner? Like for example nice car, camera,
| phone, mountain bike.. or best to keep a low profile?
| oblio wrote:
| I'm not super sure about Albania, but in Romania, where I'm
| from, you'd generally face 2 possible problems:
|
| 1. scams as tourist (should be easy to avoid: a) know the
| exchange rate and the local purchasing power, i.e. think if a
| local paid $500 per month would buy the thing, b) don't take
| almost anything offered "for free" unless it's from already
| trusted persons)
|
| 2. theft; not robbery, theft (your stuff might get stolen
| when you're not around; robbery or outright violence is rare,
| maybe even rarer than Western Europe, but you know, poor
| people, expensive stuff, it's going to be tempting)
| ardit33 wrote:
| Albania doesn't have either. Scams or thefts are rare. It
| is a very tourist friendly country as it gets almost 2.5x
| tourists a year compared to its population.
|
| People are very welcoming.
| ddorian43 wrote:
| You'll be fine. It's not a big deal to have $50K+ car.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| True. I think everyone in Albania drives a second-hand
| luxury BMW, Audi or Mercedes fixer-upper imported from
| Germany.
| InCityDreams wrote:
| "imported from..." made me laugh, especially as I know a
| couple of 'importers'.
|
| BTW and fwiw, I loved being in Albania, also Macedonia.
| Bulgaria was cool, and Romania is crazy hilarious.
| ardit33 wrote:
| Albania is the safest country in Europe when it comes to
| robberies
|
| https://landgeistdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2021/10/europe-r.
| ..
|
| This is surprising to most americans, but the Western EU
| countries are the least safe when it comes to mugging,
| stealing, and general crime.
|
| Maybe it is family values, or the fact that many people have
| immigrated to work in the richer countries, countries in the
| Balkans are really chill and crime free. The only danger is
| driving, as the drivers are probably not the best and roads
| can be tight.
| cure wrote:
| > This is surprising to most americans, but the Western EU
| countries are the least safe when it comes to mugging,
| stealing, and general crime.
|
| This map would also be surprising to Europeans.
|
| This map was generated based on data from Eurostat, "who
| bases these number on police reports from each country."
| (sic, cf. https://landgeist.com/2021/10/12/robbery-rate/).
|
| So... the obvious question, then, is how many robberies do
| not result in a police reports in each country, and how
| good each country is at reporting all robberies to
| Eurostat.
|
| I suspect that this map is more of a reflection of the rate
| of reporting for robberies than the actual rate of
| robberies, which is why the map is so surprising: it's
| misleading and does not reflect reality.
| medo-bear wrote:
| > The only danger is driving, as the drivers are probably
| not the best
|
| lol! yeah balkans has many schumachers, of all ages and
| genders too :)
| aunty_helen wrote:
| I found Tirana weird given how many flash cars there were.
| 750i's and s600's just driving around like they were doing
| laps on a Friday night.
|
| However, there was also some very nice streets with new bars
| and restaurants. Like a lot of people had recently been
| pouring cash into the place which is always a good sign.
|
| The people who I met were always super friendly and outgoing
| too, some of the most friendly I've experienced.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Out of curiosity, how's the quality of life there?
|
| Being originally form Eastern Europe myself, devs earn and live
| like kings here, especially those freelancing for remote US
| companies, but socially you're mostly confined to these high-
| earning circles and gated communities where you're mostly
| insulated from the poverty, corruption and inequality
| surrounding you, along with a feeling that everyone from
| individuals to local businesses could be potentially
| unscrupulous ready to scam you of everything you've got, if
| your scam detector is not finely tuned and you don't know
| exactly how things work, as laws and regulations tend to be
| very loosely enforced.
|
| Plus, complete lack of infrastructure, functional government
| and public institutions. Roads without potholes that don't ruin
| your car? Forget it. Public transport? Barely. Pedestrian
| sidewalks not full of illegally parked cars? Nope. Drivers
| disobeying the law and being a hazard to everyone? Check.
| Police doing something? Forget it. Public hospitals? Avoid if
| you can. People behaving like a-holes in public. Yes. Gangs of
| roma beggars and parking scammers? A given. General disregard
| for following laws and regulations? Check.
|
| And that's in an EU country that, at least on paper, should be
| doing way better than Albania.
| stavros wrote:
| Your comment could basically be describing Greece.
| juanani wrote:
| ddorian43 wrote:
| Depends on your $$$. What's your monthly budget
| (rent,food,health,fun)?
| darebak wrote:
| Eastern Europe has gated communities? You mean
| Russia/Ukraine?
|
| Because I haven't heard about gated communities in Slovakia
| and Serbia, I I'm guessing it's the same in neighboring
| countries.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| Not like Brazil or Russia, but the newly developed suburbs
| of the nuveau-rich are the equivalent, even though they
| lack armed security and barbed wire fences typically
| associated with gated communities.
| medo-bear wrote:
| i am curious, what are the gated communities in russia
| and how prevalent are they? from my cursory search it
| looks like there are more gated communities in us,
| australia, and the uk
| xvilka wrote:
| Not many in Moscow apart from a few elite suburbs.
| medo-bear wrote:
| are they actually gated (as in controlled restricted
| entry) or they are simply high-value real-estate type of
| place?
| xvilka wrote:
| Some of them are gated, some are just high-value.
| Remembering visiting some smaller cities in Russia I
| don't really recall gated communities at all.
| rob74 wrote:
| So, a gated community without actual gates? I mean,
| suburbs where each house is surrounded by a high
| fence/wall, security cameras etc. (what you are probably
| referring to) are not nice either, but "real" gated
| communities are nevertheless something different...
| logical_ferry wrote:
| medo-bear wrote:
| i have never visited albania, but from personal experience i
| can tell you that countries of former yugoslavia (albania's
| neighborhood with significant albanian minorities) are
| amongst the safest in terms of public safety (with exception
| of petty theft in large cities such as zagreb, belgrade, and
| sarajevo). importantly, this is not due to these places being
| heavily policed as is the case in australia for example, but
| because of culture. i imagine the same to be true for albania
| rastignack wrote:
| It's true. Be it serbia, Croatia, Montenegro or Albania,
| those are safe. And quite enjoyable, people are quite fun
| there.
| ChuckNorris89 wrote:
| I never said the place was not safe.
| medo-bear wrote:
| i think that public safety is a feature of eastern europe
| most westerners are unaware of. this is often due to a
| false association of low income and high crime rates that
| is prevalent in anglo communities. the only place in
| western europe where i experienced comparable public
| safety was in portugal, curiously another low income
| country. anyway i think that you should not sell your
| homeland short despite its shortcomings. btw you did not
| make it clear what country you are talking about
| smcl wrote:
| Very subjective and anecdotal, but my experience of
| Montenegro, Bosnia and Croatia is similar.
| avtolik wrote:
| This is a perfect description of Bulgaria. I would only swap
| "gated communities" with social bubbles.
| [deleted]
| rastignack wrote:
| > People behaving like a-holes in public. Yes. Gangs of roma
| beggars and parking scammers? A given.
|
| As a French guy visiting Albania quite frequently, I can tell
| you that I feel safer there than in Paris. People are mostly
| welcoming. I always travel with Albanian speaking people
| there, so it might be the reason. I'm pretty confident that
| it's much safer than a big American or Western European city.
| grujicd wrote:
| Paris at night can be scary, while I never felt that in any
| Balkan city. On the other hand few smaller French cities I
| visited felt safe. It could be a problem with super-
| touristy capital of France.
| medo-bear wrote:
| as in other countries in the region, this will last only a few
| years, until enough IT capital flows in. one noteable exception
| is bosnia & herzegovina, where the personal income tax and the
| company profit tax is 10% flat. moreover, this has always been
| the case and it is unlikely to change in the near future
| ddorian43 wrote:
| It's for every type of export. Previously, it was 0% until
| $50K. 5% until $125K. 15% after $125K. So pretty near to what
| we have now. I don't expect it to get worse than that.
| medo-bear wrote:
| from what i can see the tax laws in albania are pretty
| strict, and tax seems to be applied on world-wide income
| [0]. i think this is rather problematic for incentivizing
| foreign investment into startups. compare to general tax
| rules in bosnia and herzegovina [1]
|
| [0] https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/albania/corporate/taxes-
| on-corp...
|
| [1] https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/bosnia-and-
| herzegovina/corporat...
| core-utility wrote:
| Are you saying that if you made $124,999 you owe $0, but if you
| made $125,000 you owe $18,750? Or do you only owe on the amount
| above $125k you made?
| ddorian43 wrote:
| > you owe $18,750
|
| Yes, assuming you haven't registered any expenses. 15% of
| total profit (revenue-expenses=profit).
| sputr wrote:
| Ah, the Balkans :).
|
| Slovenia has a "sole proprietorship" system that's
| fantastic for IT professionals since it has standardized
| costs, which means in the end you pay 4% tax on any income
| up to 150kEUR.
|
| But you also pay FIXED "social contributions" (aka. tax)
| for pension and healthcare since you, as an "s.p." are
| considered to have a minimal pay... no matter how much
| money you make. This is a little under 500EUR/month. This
| is due the first month you register your business.
|
| This leads to a reducing effective tax rate - the more you
| make, the less you pay.
|
| We also have no way of doing business if you can't afford
| the ~500EUR/month tax. As far as the government is
| concerned, everyone starting a small business just
| "magically" starts making enough money from month 1.
|
| Watching ex-communists (who are still in power) trying to
| work this whole capitalism thing is hilarious sometimes.
| jonp888 wrote:
| Germany is no different. Everyone is required to have
| health insurance(since not treating the uninsured is not
| an option in a humane socitey), and as a sole proprietor
| you must pay for that health insurance even if you earn
| very little.
|
| I am not sure why you expect the state to subsidise the
| health insurance of people who voluntarily put themselves
| in the position of working for an employer(themselves)
| that can't afford to pay them.
|
| Anyone starting a business has to get together starting
| capital for the costs of the business itself, plus the
| costs of necessary employees up until the company starts
| earning money. This is one of those costs.
| vidarh wrote:
| A number of countries make employer contributions to
| health insurance entirely a percentage of salary,
| sometimes with a lower threshold before payments (be it
| employer or employee contributions) kick in at all.
| eru wrote:
| > Germany is no different. Everyone is required to have
| health insurance(since not treating the uninsured is not
| an option in a humane socitey), and as a sole proprietor
| you must pay for that health insurance even if you earn
| very little.
|
| Singapore has rules that make something like health
| insurance mandatory for locals and most foreigners here.
| However, if you are on the visa for highly paid
| foreigners, fewer rules apply. Specifically, health
| insurance is optional.
|
| In general, I agree that leaving rich people out of your
| paternalism is perfectly compatible with a humane
| society. Rich folks can look out for themselves and only
| have themselves to blame.
|
| (The health care for locals in Singapore largely works as
| a health savings account, so the system has less need to
| force healthy people into contributing to balance the
| books. Largely everyone pays for themselves, though there
| is a genuine insurance component to the system as well;
| as in a mechanism to shoulder large unpredictable risks.)
| eru wrote:
| > Are you saying that if you made $124,999 you owe $0, but if
| you made $125,000 you owe $18,750?
|
| Just in general: almost no sane tax system works like this.
|
| There are sometimes some nooks and crannies of insanity in
| some parts of a tax system, but seldom in something as
| mainstream as income tax brackets.
| core-utility wrote:
| Thanks, I'm only familiar with the US workings and wasn't
| sure if maybe Albania was different.
| pdabbadabba wrote:
| I agree, as a general matter. Then again, the sibling
| comment immediately below, from someone apparently familiar
| with the Albanian system, seems to say that it _does_ work
| this way in Albania.
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