[HN Gopher] Facebook/Instagram consider shutting down in EU if t...
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Facebook/Instagram consider shutting down in EU if they can't move
data to US
Author : mpweiher
Score : 57 points
Date : 2022-02-06 16:31 UTC (6 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.cityam.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.cityam.com)
| nix23 wrote:
| Please don't forget to take WhatsApp with you.
| benjamir wrote:
| Yes, please do shut down here!
|
| What a quack.
| [deleted]
| snicker7 wrote:
| How does this work for data involving both a EU citizen and non-
| EU citizen?
| Arnt wrote:
| I'm guessing that this is the key problem.
|
| Suppose California makes a nice new privacy-friendly law next
| year that prohibits personal data for its inhabitants from
| being moved abroad without explicit consent. Then, "x follows
| y" has to be kept in the EU if either X or Y is in the EU (AIUI
| and IANAL), and but if either is in California then the future
| Californian act also applies. This isn't simple, and x-to-y
| relationships are central to almost everything Facebook does.
| achow wrote:
| Whatsapp is not part of this because it doesn't store data in
| servers?
|
| But what about the situation when a message is sent but not
| delivered. Doesn't the message sit in a server?
| BenjiWiebe wrote:
| If messages are stored like media, it's gone from their servers
| in a couple of days, it seems. (If you don't hit the download
| button fairly soon, it complains that the media is no longer
| available and you'll have to ask your contact to resend it.)
| peoplefromibiza wrote:
| bluffing at its finest.
| throwawaymanbot wrote:
| chmod775 wrote:
| I'm generally a very optimistic person, but not even I believe
| this will happen.
| denysvitali wrote:
| Yes! Please do it!
| dotcoma wrote:
| We can take it. See ya!
| MaxikCZ wrote:
| Jeremy Clarkson's "Oh no! Anyway..." comes to mind
| Barrin92 wrote:
| _" When contacted by City A.M. today, John Nolan, Meta's London-
| based tech media and advertising communications leader, did not
| deny or play down the reports. Instead, he shared a statement
| from Nick Clegg, Meta's VP of Global Affairs and Communications.
| Clegg warned that "a lack of safe, secure and legal international
| data transfers would damage the economy and hamper the growth of
| data-driven businesses in the EU, just as we seek a recovery from
| Covid-19." "The impact would be felt by businesses large and
| small, across multiple sectors," he continued._"
|
| Lol, the underhanded passive aggressive tone. "Let us use your
| data, or else...". I wish they'd actually have the balls to do it
| instead of just bluffing, because then we'd finally have a reason
| to build our own social networks.
| jollybean wrote:
| No, they're calling the bluff on the hypocrisy of the laws to
| the extent they are singling out Facebook.
|
| If EU pursued everyone to the same extent, it would be
| seriously damaging.
|
| They're going to have to figure something else out, especially
| given the there's nothing inherently wrong with hosting and
| processing data offshore. If 'feels' like things could be
| improved if data were processed locally but the real consumer
| damage is not hugely material. I wonder if there is just a
| better way to deal with the issue, for example, by requiring
| that Facebook adhere to some minimum set of rules and that's
| that.
| Barrin92 wrote:
| No, it doesn't single out Facebook at all. It applies to
| every company equally. What singles Facebook out is their
| practices. Equal treatment under the law means treating those
| equally who act equally, in this case it'd just be doing its
| job. Microsoft for example, already voluntarily stores data
| in Europe
| (https://blogs.microsoft.com/eupolicy/2021/05/06/eu-data-
| boun...)
|
| And of course the user damage is material, because American
| data protection laws are weaker than European ones. That's
| why they're shoving the data across the pond in the first
| place.
|
| > _by requiring that Facebook adhere to some minimum set of
| rules and that 's that._
|
| that literally is what the data protection legislation is
| about
| HellDunkel wrote:
| If they pulled the plug on Europe that would be truely amazing.
| exabrial wrote:
| Why does Europe get everything nice? Please pull out of the USA
| too.
| macilacilove wrote:
| Most people I know use fb because something called the
| _collective action problem_. Each individual would lose by
| leaving, but if everyone left at the same time, we 'd have a more
| human centric platform. This is the case when laws should be
| written that state the what we expect from a copmpany operating
| here.
| igneo676 wrote:
| Ah yes, the Big Tech strategy of turning legislation you don't
| like into something company ending. Or in this case, we can't do
| business in your country anymore
|
| It's all bluster and everyone should give this exactly the
| attention it deserves. None.
| jandorn wrote:
| I doubt they will say no to the money.
| phatfish wrote:
| Hopefully they do more than "consider". Pulling the plug would be
| a benefit to every European citizen (EU member or not).
| bko wrote:
| What about the hundreds of millions of people that voluntarily
| use Facebook every month in the EU?
| phatfish wrote:
| I doubt any of them would notice the difference after a month
| of cold turkey.
|
| Anything productive done on Meta platforms can be achieved
| through alternative, less socially destructive means.
| qeternity wrote:
| And yet people choose to use Facebook/Insta. This scary
| slide towards people feeling that they know what is best
| for everyone else is extremely un-Democratic.
| [deleted]
| kd913 wrote:
| Maybe because reality has proven that people don't know
| what they are doing.
|
| E.G. The anti-vaccers, anti-climate change supporters
| that Facebook eagerly monetizes.
|
| Maybe we can actually get vaccination numbers up in the
| EU if these idiots weren't given a soapbox by FB.
| mk81 wrote:
| barneygale wrote:
| The "scary slide" is towards megacorps owning our lives,
| not the EU's very late effort to slow it down.
| bko wrote:
| A lot easier for an EU citizen to ditch Facebook than it
| is for them to ditch the EU. I prefer to have autonomy
| and choose which products and services I use
| chmod775 wrote:
| > This scary slide towards people feeling that they know
| what is best for everyone else is extremely un-
| Democratic.
|
| No it's not. Undemocratic would be _a few prohibiting
| many_ from harming themselves. Even the majority
| prohibiting something would still be democratic.
| Democracy is not the same thing as libertarianism.
|
| Wanting others to live healthier lives and saying that
| aloud has nothing to do with any form of government at
| all. I don't need to live in a dictatorship to talk about
| the dangers of alcohol, obesity, or facebook.
| Nextgrid wrote:
| They'll move to a more respectful EU-based replacement. The
| core functionality of Facebook (blog-like pages & messaging)
| is not rocket science.
| macilacilove wrote:
| It is more like they are blackmailed that they will lose
| access to their friends if they leave. We don't use fb
| because it is a good product. We use it because it was 'hot'
| and now we are stuck with a company that agressively (ab)uses
| its network effect to gain profit and other benefits for
| itself.
| Matthias247 wrote:
| Well, it won't happen. It's just a way too big market to give up.
| Even if they are forced to invest a significant amount of their
| engineering power to get it done, they probably will have to. And
| I think they should be required to do it, if the same
| requirements apply to every other company too.
| tdsamardzhiev wrote:
| > Well, it won't happen.
|
| One can dream, no?
| jollybean wrote:
| It's a form of regulatory capture that will enable to FB to do
| just fine, and have tons of companies pull out of Europe for
| almost zero benefit to Europeans.
|
| It's a 'nice thought' to have all data and data processing
| apply locally in Europe, but it also has only very, very
| marginal benefits.
|
| Just think for a moment: where are the Europeans who are
| directly harmed because FB has their data in the US under
| different jurisdiction, whereupon, if the data were all in
| Luxembourg, their personal outcome would be better?
|
| I'm not even sure that exists.
|
| Were Sven and Francois harmed, distraught and complained to the
| EU that this data ought to be in Luxembourg in which case they
| would not have been harmed?
|
| The regulation requires a fair bit of cost and complexity for
| very little upside and will make it more difficult for
| companies to operate.
|
| Of the things we don't like about Facebook that the data is in
| the USA is not the biggest burden.
|
| It's one thing, but not a the most obvious thing.
| NicoJuicy wrote:
| Yeah right.
|
| After all that trouble for getting an extra billion users, they
| would abandon 350 million popular in targeted ads ones.
|
| Sure. I'll believe that when I see it.
| rixed wrote:
| Facebook threat is unsurprisingly grotesque.
|
| I'm more concerned by the naivety shown by anyone who might
| seriously imagine that this move from the EU is about protecting
| their privacy.
|
| Sweet dreams.
| leoh wrote:
| Moving data to the EU would be a Herculean task for Facebook. It
| wouldn't surprise me if they disclosed this risk, as they have
| with the SEC, pursued a legal strategy to keep data abroad, and
| then did a hail mary to move back data to the EU if necessary,
| leading to a correction (in a "positive" way) to their share
| price.
| mtnGoat wrote:
| Like that'll ever happen, too much money on the table to just
| walk away. I hope the EU regulators realize this and stick to
| their guns.
| netsharc wrote:
| Yeah, IMO it's just a populist negotiation tactic that Zuck
| hopes has the effect of the EU public lobbying their
| politicians to "please keep Facebook in the EU!".
| bitcharmer wrote:
| Good riddance
| ilove196884 wrote:
| Unlike the Australian case where Murdoch was involved . This time
| Facebook might as well as leave. I was surprised when they say
| they could not carry out their shenanigans by keeping the user
| data in Europe. They are getting desperate.
| meta-level wrote:
| Hey Mark, can you please buy Pinterest, too before leaving EU?
| altdataseller wrote:
| No that would be a waste of money with no real synergies. They
| are better off buying a video games co like Take Two or Roblox
| for advancing the metaverse
| throwawaymanbot wrote:
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