[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Has anyone sold their employee stock on the ...
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       Ask HN: Has anyone sold their employee stock on the secondary
       market?
        
       Wanted to hear about experiences from employees who have
       RSUs/options in a private company and whether they were able to
       sell their shares on the secondary market?  Were you able to sell?
       What platform did you use? Were you able to sell w/o board
       approval? If so, were you able to use private forward contracts to
       complete a deal?  Anything you can tell me about the experience
       would be much appreciated!
        
       Author : secondarymarket
       Score  : 207 points
       Date   : 2022-02-05 18:40 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
       | kippinitreal wrote:
       | Yes, with SharesPost, equityzen and Forge. Company had a pretty
       | standard policy so approval was straightforward but took a few
       | months and required some legal opinions (costing $,$$$). In my
       | case the deal was for the shares directly. Biggest lesson was
       | really just that the fees really added up (near 10% if under
       | $100k) and it's a shame more companies don't do more to broker
       | these deals on employees behalf to get the best price and cut out
       | the middlemen (another employer did this and it was great).
       | 
       | DM if I can help with more info, experience with each company was
       | essentially the same and you should just reach out to all of them
       | to see who has inbound buy requests at the highest price. Worth
       | noting that there is more room for negotiation on price than you
       | might expect.
        
         | wikibob wrote:
         | No DMs on HN.
         | 
         | Add your email address to the About Me section if you want to
         | be reachable.
        
         | secondarymarket wrote:
         | Ah, interesting that your company had a standard policy for
         | this. I wish mine did as well.
         | 
         | Worried about getting (or even asking for) board approval -
         | what incentive would they have to allow an employee to reduce
         | their stake in the companies success prior to an IPO event?
        
           | bb88 wrote:
           | Owning shares in a pre-ipo company comes with it's own risks.
           | And not wanting to be diluted from future investments is a
           | valid reason to selling your shares.
           | 
           | It's possible for the company to dilute your shares turning
           | them worthless, and then generates new shares. I'm sure
           | there's lots of examples you can find of dilution, but that
           | was what FB did to the former CFO as shown in the movie "The
           | Social Network".
           | 
           | People keep talking about working for soulless companies when
           | deciding to work for startups, but I can't think of a more
           | soulless way to screw over your employees.
        
       | bradly wrote:
       | I'm also curious if anyone has purchased secondary market shares
       | and what that experience is like.
        
         | blaaaaa99 wrote:
         | Bought uber, airbnb and reddit in 2018 on equidate/forgeglobal.
         | 
         | Structured as contracts for future stock from current employees
         | that get transferred to you after the ipo (and usually 6 month
         | lockup) are complete.
         | 
         | I got 100% of the uber stock (about 1x return) about 99.8% of
         | the airbnb (about 2.5x return) and depending on if/when reddit
         | ipos (was looking good for 10x a few months back but unlikely
         | now) it will be interesting to see how much of the stock i get
         | if it has gone up massively since initial purchase.
        
           | throwbigdata wrote:
           | Why is Reddit unlikely?
        
             | blaaaaa99 wrote:
             | High beta growth stocks all pretty much nuked, ipo window
             | closing etc
        
           | boulos wrote:
           | > it will be interesting to see how much of the stock i get
           | if it has gone up massively since initial purchase.
           | 
           | You mean from the employees backing out somehow?
        
             | teej wrote:
             | The employee got cash already. Not sure they can simply
             | "back out" without major consequences.
        
               | blaaaaa99 wrote:
               | I think its a somewhat unproven legal structure and i
               | dont think it has been tested with really spectacularly
               | performing stocks.
               | 
               | If you sold rights to your stock for a million 5 years
               | ago and now it is worth 15 million and still in your
               | possession, it would be tempting to sell it asap and move
               | to brazil and let the lawyers come and find you.
        
       | magicjosh wrote:
       | How about startup advisors? Or others who have received slivers
       | of equity?
        
       | cgreerrun wrote:
       | I haven't personally, but I know people that have. The people
       | that I know that sold shares used Equity Zen
       | (https://equityzen.com/). The company I worked for has/had a
       | "first right of refusal" option in the equity contracts, which
       | basically means that when EquityZen offers you a deal, you have
       | to bring the deal to your company and they can decide to buy your
       | shares for the same price instead of letting you sell your shares
       | to an outside party (which they might not want).
        
       | onphonenow wrote:
       | I'm curious about this as well. Does your employer know that you
       | sold or not?
        
         | SilasX wrote:
         | Usually, they'll have to, since such stock is usually
         | conditioned on you granting the employer the Right of First
         | Refusal (i.e. the chance to beat any offer from a buyer you
         | find).
        
           | kome wrote:
           | so basically... there is not a market, and it's a fake stock
        
             | IncRnd wrote:
             | You do not need a formal market for stock to be stock. A
             | share of stock represents ownership. You are confusing that
             | with publicly traded stock markets.
        
             | kortilla wrote:
             | Please look up right of first refusal before posting
             | nonsense like that.
             | 
             | It means they have to match the offer or let you sell. It's
             | exactly like a national best bid guarantee in a real
             | market.
        
             | ceejayoz wrote:
             | No?
             | 
             | If you can find a buyer for a certain amount, you can sell
             | for that amount. The company can just opt to be the buyer.
        
               | xyzzy123 wrote:
               | This seems like an interesting dynamic because the
               | company has to balance getting a random outside
               | shareholder vs having to buy their own shares back for
               | whatever price you negotiated.
        
               | doktorhladnjak wrote:
               | Check your stock agreement. I worked somewhere it didn't
               | just grant first right of refusal, but the company had to
               | _approve any sale_. In practice, they approved almost no
               | sales, so this was a ban on selling shares before IPO.
        
             | devoutsalsa wrote:
             | Ownership is ownership. Your car isn't listed as a public
             | company on the NYSE, but that doesn't mean your 1 share
             | (worth 100%) in your car is fake.
        
         | secondarymarket wrote:
         | To transfer the stock directly you will need approval from the
         | company/board.
         | 
         | I'm curious if anyone has done it without by using a private
         | contract between buyer/seller (google: forward contracts).
        
         | rco8786 wrote:
         | They'll have to, if you're actually transferring ownership of
         | the shares.
        
       | e10jc wrote:
       | I sold once with Equityzen and once with a different company, I
       | forget the name. Both times were great, but it took years from
       | start to finish. They'll help you through the process. The fees
       | were levels below the taxes, not bad at all. If you are
       | interested and your company is listed on secondary sites, why not
       | list some shares and see if anything comes through.
        
         | secondarymarket wrote:
         | I'll look into those!
         | 
         | My main concern is around requiring board approval. There isn't
         | any formal policy for employees seeking liquidity, and I'm not
         | sure the board will be receptive.
         | 
         | I mean, what incentive would they have to allow employees to
         | sell their shares before an IPO/exit event?
        
       | s1artibartfast wrote:
       | Not sure why this is Marked dead. Seems like a perfect question
       | for this forum. I too would like to know the answer.
        
         | eganist wrote:
         | first submission by a new account, guessing from a throwaway
         | behind tor so that the question can't be tied back to a
         | specific person or company.
         | 
         | That's why it's useful for a handful of people to have showdead
         | enabled: so that good questions or comments lost to
         | antispam/antitroll filters can be fished out from the abyss.
         | 
         | ---
         | 
         | As for questions like "Were you able to sell w/o board
         | approval," I feel like this depends on the terms of the
         | agreement, no? I mean I'm keen on hearing the data for the sake
         | of having a dataset, but the question itself doesn't seem to be
         | immediately relevant unless the person answering the question
         | happens to work at the same company as the person asking the
         | question.
        
           | s1artibartfast wrote:
           | Thanks! Makes sense
        
         | IncRnd wrote:
         | This forum is run by venture capitalists, which might have
         | something to do with the question posed on this page.
        
           | klohto wrote:
           | Stop reading Breslow's twitter man
        
           | dang wrote:
           | We don't moderate HN that way. I know that contradicts the
           | default cynical view, but people should replace that view
           | with the following alternative cynical view, which is more
           | accurate:
           | 
           | (1) HN's only value to YC is the community; (2) the community
           | only comes here to the extent that it finds HN interesting;
           | (3) therefore, to optimize HN's value, we have to optimize it
           | for being interesting. Moderating for parochial interest
           | (e.g. suppressing things that some $ingroup doesn't like--VCs
           | or whoever else) would make HN less interesting, so we don't.
           | 
           | We also don't do it because (a) it would be wrong and (b) it
           | would feel bad, but those concerns don't belong in a cynical
           | argument. YC's business interests, however, do belong in such
           | an argument, and it's very much in YC's business interest to
           | keep this community as happy as possible. That's a sort of
           | miracle if you think about it--a freak of economic nature--so
           | we should all enjoy it for as long as possible.
           | 
           | Past explanations in case anyone wants more:
           | 
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23284262
           | 
           | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so.
           | ..
           | 
           | https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor.
           | ..
           | 
           | p.s. The OP was originally killed by a software filter--those
           | are tuned more aggressively for new accounts. Fortunately
           | other users vouched for the post, which unkilled it long
           | before mods saw it. That's the vouching feature working as
           | intended. See
           | https://news.ycombinator.com/newsfaq.html#cvouch.
        
             | smoyer wrote:
             | Hi dang ... I know this is meta but if you put this comment
             | in a page linked at the bottom of HN, we can point confused
             | users this text without wasting as much of your time. Of
             | course, those that truly believe in conspiracy theories
             | will either assume you're a disinformation source or in-
             | the-dark regarding your bosses true motives. You can't
             | really fight that.
             | 
             | As an aside, thanks ... to a large degree I enjoy this
             | community because of the effort to keep the discussion
             | civil (sometimes embracing debate over argument) and that I
             | can learn at least a little about fields outside my own.
             | It's much appreciated.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | subpixel wrote:
       | Anecdotally, this same line of thinking revealed the utter
       | worthlessness of my ISOs upon leaving a company that is valued
       | below a billion dollars and is not on a clear IPO trajectory.
        
       | ed_balls wrote:
       | >Were you able to sell?
       | 
       | yes, the company allowed people to sell up to 25% of vested
       | shares if you were employed for more than 24 months
       | 
       | >What platform did you use?
       | 
       | Carta
       | 
       | > Were you able to sell w/o board approval? If so, were you able
       | to use private forward contracts to complete a deal?
       | 
       | No
        
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       (page generated 2022-02-05 23:01 UTC)