[HN Gopher] I Used Linux-Based PinePhone Daily for a Year. Here'...
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       I Used Linux-Based PinePhone Daily for a Year. Here's What I
       Learned
        
       Author : kk6mrp
       Score  : 46 points
       Date   : 2022-02-05 18:26 UTC (4 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (news.itsfoss.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (news.itsfoss.com)
        
       | james-redwood wrote:
       | The PinePhone in its current iteration is unfortunately unusable.
       | It's a shame because while I do wholeheartedly believe in the
       | mission of the project it's simply just not quite there yet.
       | Nevertheless, a much better alternative in the meantime is to do
       | what Edward Snowden did:
       | https://twitter.com/snowden/status/1175430722733129729?lang=....
        
       | bonyt wrote:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20220205183707/https://news.itsf...
        
         | jmakov wrote:
         | Sorry.
         | 
         | This snapshot cannot be displayed due to an internal error.
        
           | egberts1 wrote:
           | That link works for me on my Firefox iOS iPhone.
        
       | pjmlp wrote:
       | The bar for all these attempts is to at least be as good as the
       | Nokia N900, which still doesn't seem to be happening.
       | 
       | We don't need endless combinations of "Desktop Linux" on the
       | phone.
        
         | holri wrote:
         | I am still surprised how far ahead the N900 was. It is still my
         | daily driver because there is simply no comparable alternative.
        
           | pigeons wrote:
           | I don't get coverage on the bands it supports in areas I
           | frequent.
        
         | pengaru wrote:
         | Why isn't the N9/Harmattan where the bar is?
        
         | tpxl wrote:
         | The bar is Nokia 3510. I want reliable calls and SMSs and a UI
         | that doesn't take 10 seconds to open the call app. Sadly what I
         | got with the pinephone was 15 different DEs that are laggy as
         | hell and last I checked receiving calls/texts still wasn't
         | bulletproof.
        
           | rubatuga wrote:
           | The power and the downfall of open source software.
        
         | MayeulC wrote:
         | Try to use a Nokia N900 today, and check if that's really the
         | bar (I have one in my drawer).
         | 
         | I think the bar is higher, and the experience is already better
         | than that on a few mobile devices.
         | 
         | If talking about the UI, Plasma mobile is a bit experimental,
         | but gets stuff done with bells and whistles, phosh is a bit
         | barebones but better performant. If you want the Maemo UI, try
         | Nemo mobile. When installing postmarketos on a device, you get
         | quite a few to pick from.
         | 
         | If you talk about performance, there are plenty of devices to
         | pick with better performance than the Pinephone (including the
         | Pinephone Pro soon, and the Librem 5). It was meant as a cheap
         | dev platform, and it has largely succeeded at that.
         | 
         | Now, telephony support is where it hurts. Supporting modems can
         | get quite complex, so progress is slow. The Pinephone was
         | deliberately engineered as to be doable.
         | 
         | Part of the Linux appeal is choice. Choose what you don't need,
         | but we'll likely end up with different needs.
         | 
         | One way to bridge the gap is to get Android apps running. We're
         | getting there thanks to waydroid.
        
           | pjmlp wrote:
           | It is definitely the bar, because many of the Linux based
           | phone attempts aren't even able to match it.
        
             | seba_dos1 wrote:
             | I think the only use cases where my Librem 5 doesn't yet
             | reach my Nokia N900 (not counting obvious form factor and
             | spec differences) are related to the cameras.
        
       | MichaelRazum wrote:
       | For me this would be the killer application for a phone. Lets say
       | iphone 13 like hardware. Linux based system. Where you could
       | 
       | 1. Use it as phone
       | 
       | 2. Plug it to a dock and use it as normal linux desktop pc
       | 
       | Just wondering why it is still years out of reach...
        
         | juanci_to wrote:
         | Samsung DeX?
         | 
         | https://nexdock.com/samsung-dex-laptop/
        
       | egberts1 wrote:
       | hug-0-death'd
        
       | habibur wrote:
       | Rather, what I have done :
       | 
       | Buy an android phone. A good one. Whichever you like.
       | 
       | Install F-droid from website.
       | 
       | Install Termux from F-droid.
       | 
       | You get a full Debian linux running inside your phone as an app.
       | No need to even root your phone.
       | 
       | You can now :
       | 
       | Access, parse your address book, sms, call records everything
       | from command line.
       | 
       | Access sensors on your phone from command line -- like GPS,
       | compass or camera.
       | 
       | Access SD card and other files. rsync, scp, wget and others.
       | 
       | SSH into your server.
       | 
       | Edit some Java files, compile and install it as an app from your
       | phone.
       | 
       | Install other packages that you need using apt-get or pkg. Like
       | python, ruby, php, gcc.
       | 
       | And many more.
        
         | mindslight wrote:
         | You shouldn't SSH into your server, because the terrible mobile
         | security model means you're vulnerable to both Google and the
         | cell network by doing so. A modern phone should be one of your
         | least trusted devices.
         | 
         | The problem with the mobile ecosystem isn't so much what you
         | can run on your phone, but rather what you can't stop running
         | on your phone. And that perfectly good devices are relegated to
         | the trash bin due to the upgrade treadmill. A Linux-first phone
         | stands a chance at fixing these issues, whereas starting with
         | an OS developed by a surveillance company does not.
        
           | gumby wrote:
           | You suggest a MITM attack against ssh by the carrier? Seems
           | unlikely to me.
           | 
           | Not sure about the threat by Google if you're using f-droid.
           | Though there is always dmr's compiler attack I'm not sure ssh
           | would be the right vector. A keyboard attack might be more
           | useful.
        
             | mindslight wrote:
             | Not MITM, but rather the application processor _trusting_
             | the baseband processor, which is running who-knows-what
             | network-facing code. Qualcomm claims to have recently
             | implemented memory separation, but without actual public
             | documentation and scrutiny of internals why would one
             | believe them?
             | 
             | Installing F-droid does not remove Google's presence in
             | other software. On a vanilla Android phone, that is all of
             | the Google (Play) services and who knows what centralized-
             | expedient hacks have been put into the OS itself.
        
           | Sirened wrote:
           | Boy oh boy do I have bad news for you about every other
           | computer you're using today. The ccNUMA model they teach in
           | school is well and truly dead even on desktops. There is no
           | modern computer that just has the CPU in charge of memory. I
           | don't think there are any general purposes devices you or I
           | can purchase that have actual memory segmentation (either
           | true separation or via SMMUs/IOMMUs. On a modern desktop, you
           | have dozens of random cores sitting on the memory bus that
           | have full access to physical memory, and there's nothing you
           | can do about it because those cores run their own proprietary
           | (often baked in) software.
           | 
           | A Linux-first phone does absolutely _nothing_ to fix this.
           | Even if you 're running your own operating system that you
           | wrote yourself, your GPU or hell even the power management
           | controller might reach around and steal all of your stuff.
           | The issue lies in the way we build computers and the rapid
           | proliferation of cores without any serious thought as to how
           | we're supposed to manage and secure the enormous fleet of
           | heterogeneous hardware that lives on a modern SoC.
        
             | mindslight wrote:
             | First, my main desktop is a librebooted KGPE-D16.
             | 
             | Second, it matters if those possibly-hostile cores have
             | network access. Technically they could subvert the software
             | on the main CPUs to communicate with command/control, but
             | that seems like raising the bar to such an attack. Whereas
             | with the standard mobile architecture, I can totally see
             | some phone manufacturer getting the "bright idea" to have
             | the baseband processor collect statistics on the
             | application processor's software for market research.
             | 
             | But I agree with your general point.
             | 
             | Still, I think moving in the direction of Linux phones
             | gives us a starting point to do something about this
             | insecurity - proving the market allows there to be devices
             | that truly separate out the cell modem.
        
         | peakaboo wrote:
         | Okay but why? Isn't the point of the pine phone to not have
         | Google services watching your life?
        
       | rycomb wrote:
       | The "it's vs its" fight's dilation is overdue: I knew that it was
       | going to become a grammar mistake spreading throughout, reaching
       | almost every pseudo-professional writer...
       | 
       | I guessed that anybody criticizing the trend towards the
       | unnecessary apostrophe would be: either considered a grammar
       | nazi; or their own writing being extraordinarily examined for
       | mistakes (as a punishment for their criticism).
       | 
       | As a non-native speaker, my language credentials may be slim, but
       | I can't really stand the -quite widespread- extra apostrophe when
       | it's a possessive "its". The reversal, though, doesnt bother me
       | that much. I guess that it's about character conservation.
        
       | mindslight wrote:
       | As a former embedded developer, I'm surprised nobody has come up
       | with a basic purpose-built UI that skips all of the bloat (a
       | phone doesn't need a WM), and just reliably performs basic
       | functionality like voice calls and textual messages. Are the
       | performance problems further down the stack (eg graphics driver),
       | or are developers just too wed to the maladapted idea of running
       | full web browsers on a phone, or what?
       | 
       | With the 4G partial shutdown I'd be in the market for a Pinephone
       | but I just don't have time to do extra tinkering right now. I'll
       | probably just limp along with my current pocket device and
       | attempt to go VOIP-only.
        
         | seba_dos1 wrote:
         | Everyone keeps talking about "building a basic purpose-built
         | UI" for many many years now, but that's pretty much a weekend
         | project that could be easily built on top of already existing
         | abstractions that somehow doesn't seem to gain dev traction.
         | Zhone and Paroli already existed in the past, but most people
         | gravitated towards more capable options. It's like people
         | actually want their smartphones to be somewhat smart. Or maybe
         | there are as many sets of things considered "basic" as there
         | are people. Pick your explanation.
        
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       (page generated 2022-02-05 23:01 UTC)