[HN Gopher] Ask HN: Best hosted alternative to Google Workspace ...
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Ask HN: Best hosted alternative to Google Workspace for email?
So with Google starting to charge previously-free users, I've
decided that I'd rather give my money to someone else. I'd like a
provider who is likely to be around in a decade or two. Tips on
moving many years of Google email to a new provider are appreciated
as well!
Author : CharlesW
Score : 146 points
Date : 2022-02-05 17:42 UTC (5 hours ago)
| aetherspawn wrote:
| Office365, you get exchange email and Microsoft office included
| in the basic plan which is about $80/yr.
|
| You can BYO your own unlimited number of email domains.
| Kerrick wrote:
| I've been using Migadu ever since switching away from Google
| Apps, and I've been happy with their service and pricing.
| nacs wrote:
| Also moved to Migadu after hearing about Google shutting down
| the "legacy" accounts.
|
| Moved 5 domains with wildcard support and 80k emails over and
| been going great (and only $20 a _year_ for that).
|
| I used imapsync (free / opensource) to move the emails from
| Google to Migadu.
| Fileformat wrote:
| I use Migadu as well & recommend them: The ability to have
| unlimited domains (even on the cheapest tier) is key for a
| domain name hoarder like me.
| captn3m0 wrote:
| Been using Migadu for half a decade now. Only catch is that
| there isn't a contact/calendar service. I've been told it's in
| in the works multiple times over the years, and I'll welcome it
| when it does release, but it might be a dealbreaker for some
| workplaces.
| rasulkireev wrote:
| I love Zoho Mail.
|
| I pay $12/year and can have as many emails as I want. For
| example, I have set up an email for my personal domain, and 3 of
| my projects. It is very easy to do with their docs.
|
| You could stop there, but I redirect all those email to my GMail
| address (I just prefer Gmail UI). Then I set up labels for each
| email and now I have 5 different email in my GMail Account.
| buro9 wrote:
| Fastmail
|
| I've just moved, and it's great. Import is fantastic (I migrated
| 14GB of email) and I've used Dmarcian to monitor and confirm
| everything is perfect on the SPF, DKIM front. Spam initially got
| through, but once trained it's been flawless I've personally
| abandoned labels for folders as I used barely 10 labels in Gmail
| and seldom added more than one, but they do support labels if you
| want that. It's great for wildcard email and aliases.
|
| I've moved the calendar over too via Google takeout for the
| individual .ics files. On Android I use DAVx5 to keep using the
| Google calendar app (point it at your fastmail account and it
| will display in Google calendar).
|
| For Drive I've moved to syncthing and am using a Synology NAS as
| my always online master copy, but each of my computers has a
| copy. I also installed libre office on my laptop.
|
| And I'm keeping a Gmail account just for Android backup and app
| purchases, etc.
| g8oz wrote:
| Runbox.com out of Norway is rock solid.
| tazjin wrote:
| Yandex 360 is great and also has calendar support etc.
|
| There are a few things that make moving your calendar away from
| Google pretty hard. If a Google account invites you, the invite
| still lands in your old calendar for example - even if that's not
| where your domains MX records point. Lots of third-party software
| also has mostly Google-specific integrations.
|
| Moving away from them is hard, but overall probably worth it, iff
| you move to a provider that has real support.
| yannikyeo wrote:
| Mxroute, migadu, purelymail (in beta). Can also consider
| Gandi.net which gives two 3G email when you use them as domain
| registrar, their domain pricing however is not the cheapest you
| can find.
| modeless wrote:
| You can still use the Gmail UI with a custom domain for free. All
| you need is a mail server. Once it's set up, configure a free
| Gmail account to fetch your email with IMAP and send from your
| domain with SMTP. Now you own your email but still get the Gmail
| UI as long as you want to use it, for free, with the option to
| use any other client you want as well.
| hobo_mark wrote:
| That's what I'm doing. Gandi provides two free mailboxes for
| each domain hosted with them.
| fire wrote:
| Cloudflare's email routing offering seems to be a good fit for
| this as far as I can tell.
| troydavis wrote:
| This question comes up a couple times every month. FastMail
| always comes up as a recommendation, so if you search comments
| for FastMail, you'll find every past thread (and relatively few
| false positives):
|
| https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=pastYear&page=0&prefix=tru...
|
| Example from a week ago:
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30128198
| vero2 wrote:
| Every service has their haters and lovers. While people in
| G-suite threads swear that moving to fast mail or MS is the
| best options, in Microsoft threads people complain about clunky
| MS interface. It is always full circle!
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30141192
| hedgehog wrote:
| I'm a happy Fastmail customer for e-mail but they don't do
| everything Workspace does. Microsoft is a more direct
| alternative with all the Office apps etc and personally I
| like the web Outlook interface way better than GMail.
| fy20 wrote:
| How does FastMail handle tags? I tried Zoho but it's pretty
| terrible compared to how Gmail works. What I'd like is:
|
| 1) To be able to assign tags based on rules
|
| 2) To be able to view those tags in IMAP clients (Gmail exposes
| labels as IMAP folders)
|
| 3) To be able to Archive mail so they are no longer in the
| Inbox, but so the tag remains (in Gmail, 'Inbox' is just a tag
| that is removed when you Archive mail)
|
| Zoho fails because:
|
| 1) Tags aren't anywhere near a first class citizen. You need to
| hover over an icon to see what tags are assigned to an email.
|
| 2) There's no way to search Archived mail (yes really) and it's
| not available over IMAP
| rasulkireev wrote:
| I love Zoho for what they offer for $12/year. I agree that UI
| is better on Gmail, which is why I redirect all email to my
| GMail Dashboard.
| nmjenkins wrote:
| If you switch to labels mode, Fastmail handles them just like
| Gmail.
| depingus wrote:
| FastMail doesn't have tags. What it does have? Let me
| copy/paste my comment from another thread:
|
| They have subdomain addressing, which is kind of like plus
| addressing, but better (not all places let you sign up with
| plus addressing).
|
| I've got my own domain, for example: mydomain.com. So my
| fastmail email address is depingus@mydomain.com. But with
| subdomain addressing, I can sign up for services with unique
| email addresses that look like:
|
| social.hackernews@depingus.mydomain.com
|
| I don't have to set up this alias ahead of time. Fastmail
| will automatically route incoming messages arriving to this
| email address to my "social" folder. If I start getting junk
| to that address I can easily blacklist it.
|
| It wasn't easy switching out my email address EVERYWHERE. And
| there are places that won't even let me change it. But in the
| end, it was so worth it. I don't even miss Google Inbox
| anymore!
| smoyer wrote:
| It has definitely come up before but since Google just
| announced that the legacy free plans will convert to a paid
| service, there will probably be renewed interest.
| CharlesW wrote:
| > _This question comes up a couple times every month._
|
| Thank you! I used HN search before posting but didn't find
| anything helpful when searching for "google workspace", so I
| appreciate the links.
| TillE wrote:
| I'm currently waiting for access to Cloudflare's email forwarding
| beta. If that didn't exist, I'd use Namecheap, which I believe is
| also free regardless of whether the domain is registered with
| them.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| bilal4hmed wrote:
| Office 365 is a great deal. For 1 user its $70 per year, up to 6
| its $100 per year. You get a lot of storage and all of office.
|
| https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/outlook/outloo...
| wiradikusuma wrote:
| Google is not just email. It's the email client. It's the
| calendar. It's the calendar integration with email. How do you
| replace those?
| tweetle_beetle wrote:
| I don't mind losing out on bundled document editing apps, etc.
| by not giving my email money to Google or Microsoft, but I do
| wish the smaller providers saw email and calendars as two sides
| of the same service as I do. I use Migadu for email, but their
| calendar offering is still in beta and very primitive. So I use
| Fruux, to support a small open source company. But i've had
| support messages completely ignored by Fruux and the cost of
| paying for 2 micro services feels disproportionately expensive.
| josephg wrote:
| > How do you replace those?
|
| These days? Pretty easily!
|
| Fastmail also has an email client, and a calendar. The calendar
| is integrated into its email service too. And the calendar
| integrates really well with iCal / CalDAV. I find fastmail
| syncs calendar entries between my apple devices more reliably
| than apple's own icloud.
|
| The big hole in fastmail's offering is that they have no
| replacement for google docs & spreadsheets.
|
| Microsoft Outlook + 365 (as others have suggested) also does
| pretty much everything gsuite does.
| hn_version_0023 wrote:
| One thing I like about Fastmail is the ability to serve
| static web content directly from the "Files" section of their
| apps/website.
|
| Since they already manage the domain for email, spinning up
| static sites at subdomains is really easy and really nice.
| stn8188 wrote:
| This is a huge feature for me. I had set up my EE
| consultancy and even though I'm no longer doing any side
| work the Fatmail hosting feature allows my to keep a
| professional-looking static site for no extra cost with a
| place to post periodic blog updates and even the beginnings
| of a niche knowledge base. I love it!
| prirun wrote:
| I almost did this, but they don't have rsync access to the
| Files space. It's really nice with a static site being able
| to use rsync to just update the changed files.
| hn_version_0023 wrote:
| I use ncftp from a CI/CD job to push my files to
| Fastmail; it has a sync option
|
| Edit: I'm pretty sure the sync options are part of the
| _put_ command
| ipaddr wrote:
| I'm a new fastmail customer. Fastmail doesn't control my
| domain how does this feature work?
| csande17 wrote:
| Fastmail recommends setting them as the DNS nameserver
| for your domain. If you do that, then they'll
| automatically add any records needed to host websites
| with them. (They'll also set up records for stuff like
| DKIM and SPF for you, which helps your email stay out of
| spam filters.)
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| > they have no replacement for google docs & spreadsheets
|
| I'm happy about this. Those are really complicated apps to
| support; they'd have to spend a ton of time and money and
| dedicate new teams to them (even if they "just" hosted OSS
| alternatives) which would raise the cost of my subscription
| and take away from their core competency (e-mail). And it may
| result in proprietary features, making it a lock-in device.
| vmoore wrote:
| I'm confused by all the branding. Google change the names to
| things every week. Is it Google Docs, or Google One, or Google
| Workspace, or GSuite? They need to stop this.
| jldl805 wrote:
| Google and confusing, misguided name changes for already-
| effective products: name a more iconic duo.
| MandieD wrote:
| Microsoft comes close - my most personally irritating example
| was them trading "Lync" (short, wonderfully searchable, very
| little rubbish returned) for "Skype for Business" (impossible
| to search for specific technical matters, and the site itself
| was blocked by most corporate web filters for the first
| several weeks)
| guerrilla wrote:
| Google Workspace is just your own instances of their services
| running on their servers for you. You manage it as your own
| domain and it has all the services you get with a with GMail
| account, including Google Docs. It was called G Suite before. I
| don't know what Google One is.
|
| [edit: "Google One replaced the paid services of Google Drive."
| Apparently Workspaces is for businesses and Google One is for
| consumers. It seems that you can't use your own domain as a
| consumer.]
| mszcz wrote:
| This is odd. When "migrating" from G-Suite to Workspaces a
| couple of days ago I got the option to continue as not-a-
| company. I migrated a company account but still have a
| personal account with a domain to migrate. I'm sensing
| problems ahead...
| guerrilla wrote:
| I don't know honestly. I tried asking about exactly this on
| Community but they just wanted to gaslight me about it
| being a valid question and then deleted the thread to hide
| the evidence of that embarrassment. I did a Google Takeout
| and moved all my stuff to Proton and whatnot.
| bradgranath wrote:
| Your ISP and a raspi running pine.
| blakesterz wrote:
| This was asked last week with some good answers:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30128198
|
| This monster thread about the original announcement is full of
| them as well:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29996432
| moedersmooiste wrote:
| Also went looking for an alternative and moved everyting to
| mailbox.org...
| akvadrako wrote:
| I'll second that. It's the best choice if you want an EU-based
| company.
| 15characterslon wrote:
| Be aware that Mailbox.org allows any user to send emails as
| ("from") any other user via SMTP and these emails will look
| legit since they pass SPF and DKIM checks. Many consider this a
| security issue.
|
| There was a quite lengthy discussion about this in their forum
| but they deleted it since. They refused to fix it. Archive.org
| still has it. Content is in German (sorry):
|
| https://web.archive.org/web/20210123192856/https://userforum...
| mkdirp wrote:
| I did not know this, I moved to mailbox.org in December.
|
| Surely they'll only allow that if they pass the auth and the
| domain belongs to your account?
| brewmarche wrote:
| Oh wow, do you perhaps have more details on the current
| situation? The CEO's response is from 4 years ago.
|
| I also don't fully understand the reasoning. Having an open
| SMTP server that doesn't restrict senders is one thing, but
| attaching DKIM without further checks is another.
| upofadown wrote:
| Anyone willing to spin up a mail server can do this. DKIM and
| SPF are only intended to establish the identity of the
| server. I don't know that there is any obligation on the part
| of someone running a mail server to police the "From:"
| address on an email in some specific way. Traditionally the
| "From:" address was considered informational. It generally
| represents the address that the sender considers "their"
| email address. A actual user identity is established by
| signing the email and is separate from the "From:" address.
|
| Does mailbox.org even include the "From:" address in the DKIM
| signature?
| brewmarche wrote:
| I like them as well, especially their catch-all feature. But
| they increased prices for their cheapest custom domain plan
| from 1 to 3 euros per moth not so long ago. While I'm still
| grandfathered in, it doesn't feel good. I know it's not too
| much in absolute terms but the relative increase is steep.
| slig wrote:
| Is there any good alternative to Google Docs/Sheets and Microsoft
| Office 365?
| rodolphoarruda wrote:
| Zoho and OwnCloud.
| slig wrote:
| Thanks!
| BoumTAC wrote:
| I would recommend hey.com
| mazugrin2 wrote:
| I'm switching away from hey.com at the end of my term. It's not
| a bad service, but the UI is absolutely inflexible. The
| absolute worst feature for me is that the sorting of your inbox
| (I guess I mean "Imbox") is based the time you first accessed
| the email. There's no straightforward way to sort by the date
| the email was actually sent. I asked the support group if there
| was ever going to be an ability to sort by anything other than
| the quirky default sorting they've chosen but my query received
| no response.
| [deleted]
| StreamBright wrote:
| We just migrated to Fastmail.
| thom wrote:
| I migrated four separate Google accounts to a single Fastmail
| account last year. I had put off migrating for _years_ because I
| thought it would be painful, but I've had no issues at all. The
| migration was automated with good progress updates as emails are
| copied across. I had to do the DNS bits manually but they were
| nevertheless well documented. I've had zero issues since with
| mail, calendars, or their simple static site hosting. I think
| about it so little I sometimes forget how happy I was with the
| whole process.
| temp8964 wrote:
| How about free email plan from your web hosting? Many hosting
| companies provide free email plan when you host your
| domain/website with them. If you have a personal domain/website,
| why don't use the free email hosting? If you need more features,
| they also provide upgraded plans.
| vanous wrote:
| Exactly. Maybe not free but for a very small fee, compared to
| the HN popular options. And you might even get caldav and
| carddav (calendar and contact) sync included.
| qwertyuiop_ wrote:
| Fastmail
| NetWorth16254 wrote:
| As alternative I would suggest Office365, but If you used Google
| workspace for so long, why not just pay Google? Why you have to
| change. Just pay and do nothing... They invested billions for you
| to use it for free so long. Its a good service.
| mdasen wrote:
| Google Workspace is expensive: $6/mo for 30GB. Microsoft will
| give you 1TB plus the Microsoft Office apps (plus email) for
| that price. If you have a family of 6 with a custom domain,
| Google is going to charge you $36/mo while Microsoft will
| charge you $8.33/mo - plus each person gets 1TB of storage and
| the Microsoft Office apps.
|
| I think the reason to switch is that Google decided to use the
| same pricing that they want to get out of enterprises for
| individuals/families. Sure, $6/user is nothing to a company
| that is paying that worker $5,000+ per month, but it can be
| annoying for a family (even if it's still relatively
| affordable). But then you have to think about whether you want
| to pay $12/user to upgrade their storage making it $72/mo for a
| family of 6. And you still don't get the Microsoft Office apps.
| They aren't strictly necessary in a lot of situations, but
| they're still pretty commonly used.
|
| It just seems like Google isn't offering great value for
| individuals and other companies offer something better. In a
| certain way, it feels like Google is charging $6/user/mo just
| for the custom domain. With Microsoft 365, it at least feels
| like you're getting something above a standard account with the
| Microsoft Office apps and 1TB of storage.
| fire wrote:
| > I think the reason to switch is that Google decided to use
| the same pricing that they want to get out of enterprises for
| individuals/families. Sure, $6/user is nothing to a company
| that is paying that worker $5,000+ per month, but it can be
| annoying for a family (even if it's still relatively
| affordable). But then you have to think about whether you
| want to pay $12/user to upgrade their storage making it
| $72/mo for a family of 6
|
| And if you're like me who has already been paying $12/user/m
| ( which is higher than it used to be! ) just for the
| unlimited storage aspect... Congrats! That's going away in a
| few months and the only equivalent is upgrading to an actual
| _enterprise_ plan, which I _believe_ starts at $20
| /user/month
|
| I just want to store my raws without spending an arm and a
| leg, god dammit
| remram wrote:
| Does paying them make you safe from their algorithms blocking
| your access at any point with no appeal? If yes it's probably
| the right answer, if no go with a company that is not primarily
| dealing with free users and has real customer service.
| Scarbutt wrote:
| _I 've decided that I'd rather give my money to someone else_
|
| Why? the less cumbersome route is to pay google.
| guerrilla wrote:
| Why would you pay a company with no support and who constantly
| cancels features and products? Also, why would you want an ad
| company reading your email to weaponize against you?
| extra88 wrote:
| They have some support, I recently read a G Suite legacy free
| "customer's" chat with a Google Workspace Support person.
|
| There is no danger of Google canceling the core services of
| Google Workspace (email, calendar, Drive).
|
| Google has never scanned G Suite/Workspace email for ad
| targeting and stopped doing it for email entirely in 2017;
| the ads in Gmail are targeted based on other information
| Google has (e.g. search history).
|
| There are good reasons to not pay for Google's service, the
| above are not any of them.
|
| Since Google has stated they're going to create an option for
| small, non-business G Suite legacy free customers, there's no
| rush for those people, who have been using it 10+ years, to
| get off it before they see what that option is.
| oauea wrote:
| If you pay you do have support and they do not analyze your
| email.
| harel wrote:
| I've paid, and have already accessed support three times
| since with great success and good response times. I was quite
| surprised actually considering all the horror stories I'm
| reading here.
| remram wrote:
| How is self-hosted email these days? Are there web-based email
| clients with search, filters, and labels?
| devilkin wrote:
| Fastmail.
| dgavrilov wrote:
| https://mxroute.com/
| pkulak wrote:
| Wow, looks pretty good. Never heard of those guys. Are they
| new?
| lbotos wrote:
| I joined MXRoute at a suggestion in on hackernews and I'm...
| probably gonna be moving away when my year is up.
|
| Two issues I had:
|
| 1. 3 times my emails to gmail will be "silently delivered" in
| that they don't bounce but they don't land in the inbox. I
| had it happen to me (sending to my test gmail), me sending to
| a friend, and me sending to a business. It's a gmail problem,
| but this never happened when I was on fastmail.
|
| 2. Jarland is a solid admin, but he's "old school". Sometimes
| he'll blanket ban _incoming_ mail, and you might miss
| messages. For example, I was trying to sign up for mailjet
| and I wasn 't getting the sign up email. When I opened a
| ticket, it was because MXroute was seeing "a bunch of spam
| from that provider" so it was blocked. I have no clue if I
| missed any emails from sellers/senders that use the service
| during that time...
| bertman wrote:
| Re. 2.:
| https://accounts.mxroute.com/index.php?/news/view/18/don--
| 03...
|
| Looks like you were not the only one.
| lbotos wrote:
| Right. It's one thing to ask customers to choose a
| different provider, and I'd happily consider. It's
| another to blanket block receiving mail from mailjet. I
| have no clue how many vendors that I've purchased from
| that are using mailjet!
|
| (Sure, if you wanna send it to spam, I'm open to that,
| but it was dropped on the floor...)
| dgavrilov wrote:
| Domain Name: MXROUTE.COM
|
| Creation Date: 2013-10-14T22:37:59Z
|
| _In 2019, MXroute became an official legal entity in the
| state of Texas, MXroute LLC. MXroute remains a family
| business managed by Jarland and Christine Donnell._
| 0xbadcafebee wrote:
| I have no idea what Google Workspace provides, but here's my
| review of Fastmail:
|
| - The web interface is good, the Android app is good. Relatively
| fast and straightforward to use. Pretty good reliability aside
| from the occasional DDoS.
|
| - The calendar is functional but kinda lame. I don't think I've
| ever noticed before an event happens, and trying to open new
| events has poor UX. Typical Calendar features work fine.
|
| - Haven't really used Contacts but they're all there from my
| phone.
|
| - There's a Notes feature which I find mostly useless since it
| doesn't really sync with anything (though supposedly it can work
| with Apple Notes' proprietary format?).
|
| - They give you dedicated file storage and transfer quota just to
| serve files on the web (unrelated to mail quotas). It's
| accessible via normal browser and via WebDAV client. I guess it's
| handy, I've used it once, but pulling attachments out of emails
| is almost the same. If you had to send someone a large file and
| couldn't send it via e-mail, there you go.
|
| - They have all the mail features that I've used in Gmail. They
| have some "team" features, I suppose they're helpful if you have
| multiple users.
|
| - You can connect your Google, Yahoo, Outlook, iCloud, and other
| accounts in Fastmail so you can actually pull mail from all those
| places. You can even send e-mail _through_ each of those
| providers too. So this is pretty cool for consolidating accounts.
|
| - They have their own e-mail masking service, and partnered with
| 1Password so the masked e-mails have matching credentials in your
| 1Password account.
|
| - The people running it are using really old tech and don't chase
| after the latest shiny thing, which I appreciate. Everything they
| do seems sensible. These aren't tech bros gobbling up VC money to
| become a Unicorn. And they don't seem to use any trackers or ads
| at all. The only 3rd party domains I see are from Sentry (for
| debugging app issues).
|
| - My gripes: the Android app doesn't cache mail or calendar, the
| Calendar is clunky and notifications don't grab my attention,
| their new UI in beta will probably become more cramped soon.
| mattlondon wrote:
| I have used Zoho for my burner domain for a couple of years.
|
| It's functional and works ok, but is not as slick as Gmail (both
| web and app)
| rasulkireev wrote:
| I love Zoho for what they offer for $12/year. I agree that UI
| is better on Gmail, which is why I redirect all email to my
| GMail Dashboard.
| jrmg wrote:
| Also a Zoho user - been very happy for a few years now.
| callesgg wrote:
| I will keep the free version of "google cloud identity" so I kan
| keep my google account and things connected to it; things like
| drive documents, YouTube account, app purchases, and so on. But
| then I intend to move my email domain to iCloud.
| planb wrote:
| How do you do this? I'm planning to keep my Gmail account and
| pay for it, but my son does not need the mail address but wants
| to keep his YouTube account.
| callesgg wrote:
| https://admin.google.com/ac/billing/catalog
|
| Enable "Cloud Identity Free" then just go to his user in the
| admin panel and remove the users "Google Workspace" license.
| lexx wrote:
| Fast mail is awesome. And fast.
| croutonwagon wrote:
| In their Q&A they have a link to a google form where they say
| they will email you alternative options after April 1.
|
| https://support.google.com/a/answer/60217#faq
|
| May be worth the wait and just sign the form. Worst case, you
| still upgrade. But it seems like they may offer some super
| restricted free version for personal use.
|
| I'll probably just upgrade at this point. I wish protonmail
| supported contact syncing. That's the main issue, that and our
| dakboard.
|
| >What if I use G Suite legacy free edition for personal use and
| don't want to upgrade to a Google Workspace subscription?
|
| >Upgrading to a Google Workspace subscription is a seamless
| transition for all customers currently on the G Suite legacy free
| edition. However, we understand some customers may not use their
| G Suite legacy free edition for business and may be interested in
| other options. If you have 10 or fewer users in your group and do
| not use your G Suite legacy free edition for business, please
| sign in to your administrator account to provide more
| information.
|
| >Sign in to an administrator account (doesn't end in gmail.com).
|
| >Note that even if you decide you don't want to upgrade to Google
| Workspace, you'll still retain access to additional Google
| services and paid content purchased though non-Google Workspace
| services made with your legacy edition account (such as movies
| purchased on Google Play). Learn more above.
| goingindi wrote:
| Regarding migadu, which I am now looking at, what verification
| have you who've selected it done for this statement " Your emails
| are your own business. We have no interest in them. We do not
| access1, analyse2, scan or share any user data." from their site?
| buttocks wrote:
| HN is a hard place for people who like Microsoft but I'll tell
| you that a single user Office 365 Business Essentials
| subscription is a great deal. Along with e-mail you get a
| terabyte of Sharepoint (OneDrive) storage, online versions of
| office apps, and Teams. $5/mo. There's an IMAP migration tool.
| Just turn on IMAP on your Gmail account if it's not already
| enabled and let the O365/Exchange wizard suck all the e-mail
| down.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| And Exchange online is a fully featured mail server. Fancy
| adding 50 aliases, go ahead. Fancy adding 50 domains, go ahead.
| Fancy adding your family, that too. Groups, distribution lists
| etc. all included.
|
| Plus you can set up Azure AD and use the SSO tools!
| CharlesW wrote:
| That's a pretty great deal. And I've previously tried to
| replace the Office apps (with Google Docs, Apple's suite, and
| LibreOffice) but just can't, so that's really appealing too.
|
| EDIT: This plan appears to only support "Office apps for the
| web", which are not good enough for serious use in my
| experience.
| easton wrote:
| If it's for personal use, then the Microsoft 365 personal
| plan is $70 per year and includes the full office suite and
| mail. Otherwise, $12 per month will get you mail and Office.
| mansandersson wrote:
| I've been eyeing this as well but it looks like neither DMARC
| or DKIM is supported on the family plan. Anyone know a way
| around that issue?
| jimnotgym wrote:
| Yes, use an office 365 business essentials subscription
| instead. You now get a fully featured online mail server
| velcrovan wrote:
| I've been considering this, but how good is the spam filtering
| included with this plan? Do people often end up bolting on 3rd-
| party spam filters in front of Business Essentials?
| buttocks wrote:
| I haven't adjusted the spam filter. I have been using it in
| the default configuration since I signed up and it filters
| out most. YMMV.
| jimnotgym wrote:
| I use it at work and the default spam filtering is fine
| divbzero wrote:
| A sibling comment also pointed out Microsoft 365 plans [1] that
| run $70/year for 1 person and $100/year for up to 6 people.
|
| [1]: https://www.microsoft.com/en-
| us/microsoft-365/outlook/outloo...
| p0d wrote:
| I'm trialling Fastmail at the moment. Some observations.
| Excellent Google migration tool..Excellent support for domain
| aliases. You can also forward domain aliases to an external
| addresses...I raised a support query on A saturday evening and I
| had a resolution on Sunday morning.
|
| Looking good so far. My main requirement is no restriction on
| domain aliases.
| jws wrote:
| I've moved mine off to Gandi.net where I had the domains. It is
| either included for free with your domain, or something like 1.5
| EU/mo if you store a lot of email.
|
| Easy on the Gandi.net side and on Macs. A complete pain on the
| iOS side. The accounts added on the Mac don't come over to iOS
| for some reason like they do other Macs, then when you go to add
| them manually iOS won't look to see which ports to use or mail
| servers so you have to enter all that, except you can't do the
| port until later and when you do the device hangs at "verifying"
| until you turn off all internet access and turn it back on.
| (That's a half day of research for free for you.) It's an
| accepted defect by Apple, its been documented for years.
|
| Also, moving is a pain. Google lets you export, but you lose your
| folder information. Apple on Mac lets you easily copy from one
| account to another, but that is a little strange since you have
| two accounts for the same email address and there have been
| catastrophic failures in the past from that. Also some of the
| special folders like "Archive" apparently can't be copied for
| "reasons". The work around is to "select all" in Archive and hope
| it doesn't explode from the volume.
|
| All in all, you are in for some pain. And pain raised to some
| exponent if you have non-technical users in your domain to
| support.
| mdasen wrote:
| Google Takeout will export all your mail in mbox format which is
| easily handled by mail programs like Apple Mail and Thunderbird
| and should let you sync everything to a new service (if that
| service won't let you transfer it themselves).
|
| I'm using iCloud+ from Apple. It's cheap at $1/mo for 50GB of
| space and lets me have my custom domains. $3/mo will get you
| family sharing and 200GB of space (if you want multiple accounts
| - I just have one account with multiple domains/email addresses).
| Apple's email hosting is 22 years old (pre-dating Gmail by 4
| years) and seems like it won't be going anywhere anytime soon.
| They've recently expanded their email offerings with things like
| "Sign In with Apple" and "Hide my Email."
|
| Zoho Mail will give you free hosting without IMAP or $1 for 5GB,
| $1.25 for 10GB, $3 for 30GB, $4 for 50GB, $6 for 100GB (billed
| annually).
|
| Microsoft 365 will cost $5.83/mo for 1 person or $8.33 for a
| family of 6. Each account gets 1TB of storage (6TB for the family
| in total) and you get all the Microsoft Office apps. One issue is
| that the domain needs to be with Go Daddy which ups the price a
| little given their premium pricing on domains which is around an
| extra dollar per month.
|
| FastMail is $5/mo for 30GB, $9 for 100GB.
|
| There's no magic email provider that no one ever complains about
| - including Google where we've heard horror stories of getting
| locked out with no one to even contact. It also seems like no one
| wants to be hosting your mail for free with IMAP support anymore
| (and almost no one wants to host your domain email for free
| generally).
|
| For me, migrating to iCloud+ was cheap and easy. I'm already on a
| Mac and iPhone. I set up some simple rules to filter my mail on
| my Mac and I'm enjoying the instant response of a native app. At
| $1/mo, there's no lock-in to annual billing and it basically
| costs nothing.
|
| Microsoft 365 seems like a good deal if you're looking for a lot
| of storage and Microsoft Office apps. 1TB for $5.83/mo is
| basically the same price per GB as Dropbox, but you're also
| getting mail and the Office apps.
| SmellTheGlove wrote:
| Oh wow I had no idea I could use a custom domain with iCloud,
| and I'm already paying for the 2TB tier and family sharing.
| Thanks!
| nachteilig wrote:
| Does iCloud+ support catch all on custom domains now? I really
| like this about Google but would also be glad to go elsewhere
| dan_wood wrote:
| No they don't and it's a maximum of three email addresses per
| user.
|
| Looking at it they don't allow for "groups" or aliases
| either.
|
| It feels years behind.
| hughrr wrote:
| It has only just been rolled out. I think it's still early
| days.
|
| I'm using it for my domain fine but that has only two users
| on it.
| mxrlkn wrote:
| I just switched to iCloud as well, but I want all my email
| forwarded to my private gmail account. One thing to be aware of
| with iCloud is that it doesn't do ARC, so your forwarded emails
| will fail on SPF. I instead use cloudflare's email forwarding
| for incoming email, which does support ARC, and then iCloud for
| outgoing. Works well so far.
| gst wrote:
| Are you sure that Cloudflare supports ARC? Last time I
| checked they used SRS for sender rewriting (that's why SPF
| doesn't fail), but didn't support ARC yet.
| mxrlkn wrote:
| There's ARC headers on the emails I get forwarded, so looks
| like it. I don't know about SRS.
| voisin wrote:
| I just did the Gmail --> iCloud transition and was frustrated
| that the MBOX format failed to maintain labels / folders.
| Everything went into a single place. On researching it seemed
| like the best process was to set up two IMAP accounts in Apple
| Mail and simply drag and drop the directories. I've done this,
| but it is still a pain and took 100x longer than I expected.
| Saris wrote:
| Mailstores free home version works pretty well for this. You
| can backup your IMAP account in it, and then it has the
| option to export that archive to another IMAP account. It
| does retain folder/label structure (although it places them
| under a parent "Mailstore" label, but that's easy to fix
| after).
|
| It will also read EML, MSG, PST, and MBOX formats, and
| connect to Outlook and Thunderbird.
|
| https://www.mailstore.com/en/products/mailstore-home/
| concinds wrote:
| I _really_ don 't recommend doing that with Apple Mail. I
| did, many years ago, and ended up losing quite a few emails
| due to Apple Mail bugs; I did it again a few years later and
| ended up with weird corruption of email headers (wrong
| "received" dates).
|
| That was way before the Catalina Apple Mail data loss bugs.
| https://mjtsai.com/blog/2019/10/11/mail-data-loss-in-
| macos-1...
|
| Any sysadmin will tell you Apple Mail has had occasional
| weird dogshit bugs for a decade.
|
| Use Thunderbird, it's more likely to be robust and not
| corrupt your emails, then feel free to switch back to Apple
| Mail once you've moved everything.
| lewisl9029 wrote:
| An alternative to Microsoft 365 if you don't need anything
| other than email hosting is their Exchange Online plan, which
| is $4/month: https://www.microsoft.com/en-
| us/microsoft-365/exchange/excha...
|
| This is what I ended up switching to and it's been working fine
| so far. I learned from this debacle that tight-coupling email
| to any other service is a liability, so email-only is actually
| a feature for me. No GoDaddy requirement either.
| sgloutnikov wrote:
| Here is a workaround for Microsoft 365 to not host your domain
| with GoDaddy.
|
| https://www.reddit.com/r/Office365/comments/ft15pk/use_perso...
| RKearney wrote:
| That "workaround" instructs you to use "v=DMARC1; p=none;"
| for your dmarc record. I'm not sure if Microsoft actually
| requires this, maybe it's because it doesn't support DKIM,
| but setting your dmarc policy to none disables SPF checks and
| is an extremely bad idea.
| znpy wrote:
| > One issue is that the domain needs to be with Go Daddy
|
| Absolute dealbreaker.
|
| There's no real reason why I can't just point my MX at them, do
| the additional configuration[*] and have them host my mail.
|
| Any explaination would be pure (and utter) BS.
|
| [*] being setting spf, dkim records and stuff
| d000001 wrote:
| This is comparing o365 business and the personal offering.
|
| The personal/home offering requires godaddy for the domain.
| Pasorrijer wrote:
| This is not accurate. I host through Site ground and have
| absolutely no issues setting O365 as my mail provider.
| f_ wrote:
| I don't think this is true; I am running Microsoft 365 and
| use AWS Route 53 and manually set up DNS records to work with
| Microsoft 365 just fine.
| jread wrote:
| +1 for iCloud+. I moved 3 business/family domains and shutdown
| my G Suite legacy account with no issues, and no extra cost
| (already paying for iCloud). Can't beat $0.99/mo for 50GB
| shared on up to 6 accounts.
| skydhash wrote:
| +1 for iCloud+. I got the 200 to give my cousin a way to
| backup her pictures (around 30 GB, and it annoyed me she
| wasn't backing them up) The custom domain was nice, and I
| moved all of them to iCloud+.
| infinityplus1 wrote:
| You might want to read this reddit post about iCloud files
| disappearing. https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/sixyv
| x/warning_files...
| hughrr wrote:
| Just a heads up here:
|
| iCloud / OneDrive / Google Drive / DropBox are _not a
| backup solution_ despite the vendors promoting it.
|
| They are there only for convenience.
|
| I have experienced file loss on OneDrive. I am now using
| iCloud and have had no file loss whatsoever. I regularly
| diff my offline backup with iCloud Drive contents
| mirrored to my mac.
|
| Also to note: About 50% of the stories you hear are users
| being morons. My sister lost some files. She deleted them
| after fat fingering something and blamed the cloud vendor
| (Google). It happens.
|
| Make sure you back up stuff separately and fully offline.
| You're just as fucked if someone rips off your account.
| r90t wrote:
| Just migrated to iCloud with custom domain.
| Pasorrijer wrote:
| Not true. You can host through any provider and link it to
| Office365.
| mdasen wrote:
| https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/get-a-
| personalize...
|
| Q: I already own a domain that's registered with a provider
| other than GoDaddy. Can I set up a personalized email address
| in Outlook.com?
|
| A: At the moment, we only support connecting domains managed
| by GoDaddy with Outlook.com.
|
| Maybe that only applies to "Microsoft 365 Family or Microsoft
| 365 Personal" and not their business offering? They have a
| basic business offering for $5/mo, but it doesn't include the
| Office apps (just the online versions).
|
| EDIT: It looks like non-GoDaddy is for business/enterprise
| plans: https://docs.microsoft.com/en-
| us/microsoft-365/admin/setup/a...
| EwanToo wrote:
| If you do some googling you can find forum posts on how to
| do it manually, though I've not tried it myself
| nodesocket wrote:
| Is iCloud+ IMAP/Push?
| gumby wrote:
| Yes and has been since it was introduced.
|
| Unlike gmail they appear to implement the full imap protocol
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