[HN Gopher] Forget about teaching kids to code
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       Forget about teaching kids to code
        
       Author : Bostonian
       Score  : 16 points
       Date   : 2022-02-03 15:38 UTC (2 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (craftofcoding.wordpress.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (craftofcoding.wordpress.com)
        
       | gus_massa wrote:
       | Fibonacci doesn't look like an interesting problem for children.
       | Also, the idea of recursion and/or sequence is complicated. [1]
       | 
       | A good topic for children is a turtle like in Logo. Make some
       | nice drawings. Make smalls programs so you can repeat the
       | drawings. Parameterize the function, so you can change the size
       | of the drawings. Perhaps add some other tweaks, like customizable
       | colors, or optional parts. Bonus points for making the turtle
       | return to the original position and direction. Extra bonus points
       | for understanding why that is useful.
       | 
       | Another good topic is solving recreational math problems. Some
       | problems involve equations with small integer numbers and if they
       | can nest a few `for`s and `if`s then they can bruteforce the
       | solution. Bonus point for discussing the bounds, to ensure that
       | all the options are considered. Extra bonus point for an informal
       | idea of the complexity of the program, and guessing if it will
       | finish instantly, after a wile, or never.
       | 
       | [1] I'd teach Fibonacci for kids if I were teaching them Excel,
       | because you can see the whole sequence. Excel is a very powerful
       | tool and is a gateway to programing. Remember to tech you kids
       | Excel. (Not VBA, just plain cells, lot's of cells.)
        
       | jrm4 wrote:
       | Honestly, an idea I've been kicking around in my head:
       | 
       | "Don't teach kids to 'code.' Teach them to HACK."
        
       | ubu7737 wrote:
        
       | daenz wrote:
       | >Because the problems they solve can't be that challenging,
       | largely because the students won't have the requisite problem
       | solving skills. Now we hit the actual problem - coding is useless
       | without the ability to solve problems, and I don't see anyone
       | advocating for teaching problem solving skills (in any form).
       | 
       | The author seems to miss the point that "teaching coding" is
       | "teaching problem solving" by proxy. Problem solving is not
       | taught on its own, in a vacuum. There needs to be an adequate
       | environment where feedback is quick, problems are manageable, and
       | information is available. Appropriate coding exercises provide
       | that environment. It's an excellent way to teach problem solving.
        
       | Koshkin wrote:
       | > _they feel that coding is just as important as reading, writing
       | and arithmetic. That computer science should be included in every
       | school curriculum._
       | 
       | It is. It shouldn't. They are two different things.
        
       | chezzwizz wrote:
       | I get that the term "coding" to a jaded programmer or engineer is
       | just translating, but as part of his post he talks about teaching
       | problem solving. Programming languages, or rather the knowledge
       | of how to "speak" in a programming language (coding) provides a
       | medium to express a problem's solution. So maybe I'm not
       | understanding why we shouldn't teach kids to code.
        
         | lern_too_spel wrote:
         | Exactly. Yes, coding by itself is useless, but arithmetic by
         | itself is useless by the same token. Both are tools that give
         | you the ability you solve many useful problems.
        
       | kant_adorn_arts wrote:
       | They talk al ot about "coding" at primary school, but what they
       | mean is making the turtle follow simple instructions - inputed
       | via tablet. These lessons are teaching children how to use
       | technology, not how to be coders, makers or engineers. We will
       | end up with a lot of kids pushing buttons, not with a lot of
       | engineers. IMHO teach kids to use a keyboard first and get them
       | out of these walled garden button pressing labyrinths.
        
         | pyrale wrote:
         | Also, don't teach them to read. Just give them an alphabet and
         | let them sort it out.
        
       | JoeAltmaier wrote:
       | What kid can't put up a web page, paste some controls on, make a
       | personal mail tool with a friends list or some fun game links?
       | 
       | You teach kids step by step, like anybody else. And make each
       | step fun.
        
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