[HN Gopher] Long-term visa for remote workers
___________________________________________________________________
Long-term visa for remote workers
Author : floetic
Score : 107 points
Date : 2022-02-04 20:44 UTC (2 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (work.iceland.is)
(TXT) w3m dump (work.iceland.is)
| asiachick wrote:
| If I can go to a bar every night and sing "Jaja Ding Dong" with
| Lars and Sigrit I'm in!
| Ansil849 wrote:
| Honestly, what is the appeal of this? The minimum salary
| requirements are absurdly high. There are nice landscapes and
| environments available for much cheaper requirements, likely in
| one's own current country. The incentive for Iceland is pretty
| clear, they get rich foreigners' money. But the incentive for
| rich foreigners to temporarily relocate here is not at all clear.
|
| US citizens, for example, can also stay in Iceland as tourists
| for 90 days, so this sounds like an onerous amount of
| requirements to jump through to stay for 90 more.
| verve_rat wrote:
| > tourists for 90 days
|
| Meaning not working. You can visit and live of you savings for
| 3 months, but not work. This new visa would allow you to work
| in Iceland for up to 6 months. That is a very big difference.
| l0b0 wrote:
| > The applicant can show their monthly income is equivalent to
| 1,000,000 ISK, or 1,300,000 ISK if applying for an accompanying
| spouse, cohabiting partner, and children under the age of 18.
|
| 1M ISK is 8k USD, 1.3M ISK is 10.4k USD. That excludes, what, 99%
| of the world's working population, or basically anyone outside of
| tech/biomed/banking/etc in very rich countries?
| admjs wrote:
| That's a feature not a bug, I think.
| sgjohnson wrote:
| How is it not? It's not even a long-term visa, it's a 180 day
| one.
|
| You can buy permanent residence in Costa Rica for $5000-ish.
|
| And all of this is for an activity that most countries would
| be fine with you doing on a tourist visa. It's pointless.
| dahfizz wrote:
| Is Iceland all that depserate for new residents / tourists?
| Being choosy about who you let move into your country is
| their prerogative. If they can attract a few high income
| people, that is a win.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| I'd assume various covid requirements (vaccines and
| testing) have hurt tourism a bit.
|
| Their airline was quite popular as a cheap route between
| Europe and North America, and again, lots of otherwise
| passengers can't/won't make that journey.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| It's twice as long as their standard visa
| sgjohnson wrote:
| So?
| kgin wrote:
| So you get to stay twice as long.
| malermeister wrote:
| It's made for rich knowledge workers to spend a few
| months there while working remotely and dump a bunch of
| money into their economy.
| Scoundreller wrote:
| because nobody would do that on a tourist visa. Never
| happened. Only real difference is you can pay to do it
| for longer than 90 days.
| malermeister wrote:
| Yup, that's exactly the point. Not sure why that would be
| a bad thing?
| sgjohnson wrote:
| Because the only people eligible for this visa are the
| people who don't require a regular tourist visa in the
| first place. And it's literally just a tourist visa that
| lets you stay for twice as long.
|
| I don't see the appeal. It seems completely pointless to
| me. It's basically targetting only wealthy countries
| outside of the EU, like Canada, the US, Australia and New
| Zealand.
|
| And in that case, why would I bother with visa and the
| paperwork just to be able to stay for 90 days longer?
|
| It's basically like applying for a B1/B2 visa for the US
| if you're from a VWP country. You can do it, but why in
| the gods name would you?
| malermeister wrote:
| Let's say you're an outdoorsy software engineer and want
| to enjoy the beautiful nature of Iceland for half a year
| while working remotely. That doesn't sound too far-
| fetched (I know several people personally that scenario
| would be appealing to).
|
| Well, now you can do that.
| micromacrofoot wrote:
| Yeah essentially they're saying people that are well off can
| come spend money there longer than other people. In typical
| Iceland fashion it excludes any path to permanent residency.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| That seems deliberate. You want rich people to dump money into
| the economy.
| Ansil849 wrote:
| Buried in the FAQ, but pretty significant:
|
| > An applicant for a long-term visa needs to show proof of health
| insurance coverage of 2,000,000 ISK as a minimum per person,
| which is 1) valid in Iceland | Schengen-area 2) valid for the
| duration of their stay in Iceland. If your insurance is not valid
| in Iceland, please see our Health Insurance page for a list of
| providers.
| jdrc wrote:
| Sounds like Iceland should be trying harder, there is a lot of
| competition for these things now. All of southern europe and even
| netherlands (nicer/easier place to live) offers incentives for
| remote workers. Also they should be more inclusive, these
| programs should be accessible to people from south america or
| india, not just be a longer tourist visa for people who can
| afford the shorter one.
| paxys wrote:
| Not really as big a deal as people are making it out to be.
| Iceland allows 90 day tourist stays, this simply doubles it to
| 180 days. Everything else is the same.
|
| In fact, if my options are to just jump on a plane without any
| thought and go for a 0-3 month trip vs file a ton of paperwork,
| get approved and go for a 3-6 month trip, I'll probably pick the
| former.
| verve_rat wrote:
| And like a lot of the arrogant nomad picks, violate the
| immigration law of the country you are visiting. You would
| require the paperwork to get a working visa.
| bikamonki wrote:
| If a) I can work from anywhere, and b) many countries will let me
| stay 6mos with a tourist visa (no need for application and meet
| requirements). Why would I choose a friggin cold and expensive
| place?
| jandrewrogers wrote:
| In most countries a tourist visa expressly prohibits working
| while in the country, even if the work is entirely remote.
| While you can get away with it much of the time in practice, it
| can become complicated if the local authorities become
| suspicious that you are violating your visa terms. Some
| countries monitor this more closely than others.
|
| A "tourist working remotely" visa fills this obvious gap,
| without the implication of a proper work visa that you are
| taking a job away from a local (what they local authorities are
| mostly concerned with).
| lbotos wrote:
| Because "technically being able to do work via the internet" is
| not the same as "being allowed to work in that country".
|
| I can spend 6 months in the UK per year, but I can work no more
| than something like 30. Here is an old chart:
| https://assets.kpmg/content/dam/kpmg/pdf/2016/01/statutory-r...
| el-salvador wrote:
| Some countries migration control authorities won't accept the
| "I'm just here working remotely" answers when entering, exiting
| or re entering a country. Answering that could mean being sent
| back.
| fnord77 wrote:
| for digital nomads, what's the advantage of this over the
| standard 90-day tourist visa? At least for me, 90 days in any one
| place is more than enough.
| lapetitejort wrote:
| > The applicant can show their monthly income is equivalent to
| 1,000,000 ISK, or 1,300,000 ISK if applying for an accompanying
| spouse, cohabiting partner, and children under the age of 18.
|
| That comes out to about $96k USD a year. Totally reachable for a
| SWE-type job, however I know fully remote workers who are far
| from this amount. I guess they just want people to come and throw
| money around the bars.
| vmception wrote:
| They want non-EU persons that dont need a visa who are already
| making at least $96k/yr remotely
|
| They know what they're doing :) who is left? U and S
| m3adow wrote:
| You shouldn't forget about Canada and especially the UK now
| that they brexited.
| vmception wrote:
| I hadn't really been impressed by salaries in Commonwealth
| countries for the roles that can be remote that I'm
| thinking of.
| mr90210 wrote:
| Well said!
| cko wrote:
| I assume the reason is more banal - that Iceland is a high cost
| of living country. I can't imagine groceries to be very cheap.
| So after those high basic expenses, I'm sure there needs to be
| enough fun money left over to throw at the Icelandic economy.
| ohashi wrote:
| I went probably 5 years ago and found it to be one of the
| most expensive places I've ever been. I lived in the Nordics
| for years, I've been to around 50 countries. The only other
| country that I felt gave it a run for the money in terms of
| my spending was Norway. I was a tourist, so lots of eating at
| restaurants, no cooking, but average meal for a basic drink +
| entre out I was averaging ~$50. I think you're right about
| the costs, it's a very high COL place and they probably don't
| want to encourage cheap backpacker type nomads who don't add
| a whole lot to the economy.
| MattGaiser wrote:
| I had a friend travel to Iceland. She was a student, so doing
| it on the cheap. Didn't eat a lot while there as the food was
| so expensive.
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| nnoitra wrote:
| Work visa for iceland huh, how exciting.
|
| Climate so severe that even polar bears can barely survive. To do
| what? Shovel snow and take selfies with penguins?
|
| Even Bangladesh seems like a more interesting destination for
| work.
| tonfa wrote:
| If you've never been, Iceland is surprisingly not that cold
| during winter, there are many places that are much colder (e.g.
| US/Canada east coast).
|
| Is is also not warm in summer though :) (I guess the gulf
| stream is regulating temperatures pretty heavily).
| hekec wrote:
| Are there other countries with good remote worker visas? I heard
| they have it in Portugal
| shtopointo wrote:
| A great migration will happen soon as more cash/resource-starved
| countries will open their doors like this to international
| talent.
|
| It will start a competition amongst countries to get the best
| talent in their borders.
|
| For Iceland this will be a net win. Even if the people coming in
| don't pay taxes, their mere presence in the local economy for a
| few extra months per year could mean the difference between
| Iceland building another road or not.
|
| Very impressive step from Iceland!
| [deleted]
| mathverse wrote:
| Iceland is an incredibly expensive place with nothing much to do.
| I wonder what kind of remote worker would even consider it.
| ohashi wrote:
| Not all nomads are cheap / poor. I know there is a stereotype
| (probably well earned) about nomads. It's why you see low COL
| places being so popular (Thailand, Bali, Portugal, Mexico,
| etc). They get the most attention, but there's definitely folks
| who make good money and have interests in different
| regions/climates/activities. I can definitely see the appeal of
| Iceland. It's gorgeous natural landscape. I didn't get to see
| the northern lights while there, doing a six month stay might
| increase those chances tremendously versus flying over and
| crossing my fingers. I doubt we will see a huge flood to
| Iceland, but offering this kind of visa makes it easier for
| some higher value, longer term visitors. That's good for their
| economy and if they make it easy enough the administrative
| hurdles aren't that high, even better.
| jonny_eh wrote:
| Its nature is unparalleled. And I'm sure the people are lovely.
| modernpink wrote:
| There are no trees in Iceland. It's fine to look at for a
| week and the northern lights are a novelty, but the US and
| Canada (even California alone) offer much much more in terms
| of nature.
| AlotOfReading wrote:
| There are definitely trees in Iceland. Not many, not
| everywhere, and not impressive ones, but they exist.
|
| However if you've been to Iceland and thought there wasn't
| much outdoors, I'm not really sure what to say. It's
| sparsely inhabited, beautiful, and gigantic. It's a totally
| different experience from something like the sierras.
| afterburner wrote:
| lol unparalleled? Ask any Norwegian visiting Iceland what
| they think...
| CitrusFruits wrote:
| It seems beautiful, but saying unparalleled is a little
| hyperbolic. Western Norway, Switzerland, Northern Scotland,
| and the North American Rockies all appeal to similar
| sensibilities and arguably just as grand, if not more so in
| some cases.
| echelon wrote:
| Cold, too. It's worth a visit, but I don't think I'd stay for
| six months.
|
| I'd love to see this from Japan or Korea. I'd definitely go and
| spend my money.
|
| Incredibly smart business decision on Iceland's part, though.
| I'm sure they'll get some takers and enjoy that extra "long
| term tourist" income.
| pesfandiar wrote:
| It's not as cold as the name suggests. There are major cities
| in Canada and the US that typically get colder in the winter.
| echelon wrote:
| I just looked it up, and you're right.
|
| February average high and low temps (according to Google):
| Miami 75deg/64deg F Atlanta 58deg/36deg F Tokyo
| 51deg/36deg F New York 43deg/29deg F Reykjavik
| 38deg/28deg F Seoul 40deg/24deg F Toronto
| 32deg/21deg F
| pm90 wrote:
| Korea is a fantastic place to live. The food is amazing, the
| country itself is beautiful, and the people are very
| welcoming (at least when I was there about a decade ago). The
| only issue is that outside of Seoul not a lot of people speak
| English, so you would need to learn a bit of basic Korean.
|
| Its basically an urbanist's dream come true, with mega tall
| apartment complexes even in backwater villages. Right next to
| single family homes, right next to hilly forested areas where
| you can hike. There is excellent transit so you don't need to
| own a car (although a lot of people still do).
|
| There _is_ the possibility of being caught in a nuclear
| hellfire though. So... YMMV.
| izolate wrote:
| > I'd love to see this from Japan or Korea.
|
| The only problem would be the time difference, assuming
| you're working for an American company.
|
| I've spent 4 months in Japan as a digital nomad, while
| working for a company based in Europe. It worked. Now that I
| live and work in the US, I'm pretty sure the time difference
| would be too disruptive.
| [deleted]
| Hokusai wrote:
| Japan? Japan is currently closed to the world, and it had a
| history of doing so.
|
| So, I share your desire. I do not expect it to happen, thou.
| pomian wrote:
| Many people find much to do, even in icy cold climates! Some
| even prefer it.
| m3adow wrote:
| According to a co-worker it's terrific for hiking and mountain
| biking.
| acd wrote:
| Good idea but why 1m isk monthly salary? Strange new world if
| only the ultra rich are welcome. Im sure Iceland would benefit
| also from average income remote workers.
| brimble wrote:
| > Strange new world if only the ultra rich are welcome.
|
| Hardly. Most countries treat the rich differently from everyone
| else, when it comes to immigration/visas, and have basically
| forever. It's the overwhelming norm. In plenty of desirable
| countries you can simply _buy_ your way to permanent residency.
| And I don 't just mean the usual tropical tax havens.
|
| For most countries, it's "prove your worth--and it better be
| damn good--or go away". One way to prove worth is to bring a
| ton of cash to the table.
| asiachick wrote:
| It's not a new world. Plenty of countries will only give you a
| visa, or rather make it easier for you to get certain kinds of
| visas, if you make over a certain amount.
| basisword wrote:
| Is that not about PS6k a month? It's a lot but hardly the ultra
| rich
| [deleted]
| dharmab wrote:
| I qualify and I consider myself a regular person living in a
| flyover state. Certainly neither average nor particularly rich.
| wvlia5 wrote:
| 1m isk/month is not ultra rich, just high income, right?
| healsdata wrote:
| Unfortunately, some people can't differentiate between six-
| figure salaries and billionaires.
| xeromal wrote:
| That's not really a high salary for the people of hackernews in
| the US and I'm sure most Euro countries.
| demodifier wrote:
| One of the prerequisites is that the candidate does not otherwise
| need a visa to travel Iceland. Which means that foreign nationals
| who reside in the US and work in the kind of jobs that will meet
| the criteria Iceland is looking for will not be eligible for
| this.
| KorematsuFredt wrote:
| Why such sort of visas do not get popular beyond very hipster
| cases.
|
| 1. You are offering entry but not equal treatment (in terms of
| economic freedom). 2. In Europe citizens have taxpayer paid
| healthcare but as a visitor you are screwed, I mean private
| insurance exists but it is hard to have a good restaurant in town
| if another government funded restaurant is distributing food for
| free.
|
| If you can say we will give you 100% exemption from tax then it
| is a different story.
| xeromal wrote:
| For people asking about the 1m isk limit, I'm ok with that limit.
| I visited Iceland a few years ago and the cost of living is
| pretty high. Food and petrol are expensive.
|
| I'm not sure if the person is allowed to use country services
| like healthcare, but I assume that also factors into the high-
| income requirement.
|
| This is an anecdote, but I remember meals easily being 20-30 USD
| for basics. A cup of soup (tiny) was 13-14 USD and it wasn't in a
| tourist area. I'm sure someone will reply with cheap food found
| somewhere in iceland but as someone from the US, the cost of food
| in proportion to the amount and quality, it was surprising.
|
| I hope someone chimes in with the rent cost. I'm not sure where
| that sits.
| birthday wrote:
| That's insane. I'd like to visit Iceland, but I think it's
| better to just go visit for a couple of weeks and then bail.
| Remote working in a cold and expensive country seems counter
| intuitive.
|
| Give me word class beaches, great weather and cheap cost of
| living....South East Asia here I come!
| xeromal wrote:
| I've been to several countries, but not yet a world traveler.
| Iceland is beautiful, but I've had more fun in other
| countries. One of my favorite trips was riding motorcycles
| around in Peru's Amazon.
| ghaff wrote:
| Iceland isn't that cold but it is expensive.
|
| But I don't really disagree with your basic point. I'd mostly
| rather vacation someplace and work at home. (Mostly. I have
| remote worked when I've had some time between trips in the
| same general area and I've just stayed there in between.)
|
| Zero interest in working from a beach in SE Asia though,
| especially given the time zone difference from the eastern
| US. Though this comes from someone who has "free" lodging in
| my house in the US.
| jwilliams wrote:
| Cypress, Portugal and Malta offer similar (arguably better)
| schemes for Digital Nomads [0]. Portugal has been particularly
| aggressive to the point they offer zero tax on crypto for their
| "Golden Visa" [1].
|
| I know of a few people using Malta as a base to nomad around
| Europe.
|
| 0: https://www.mondaq.com/uk/employee-rights-labour-
| relations/1...
|
| 1: https://getgoldenvisa.com/crypto-portugal
| mr90210 wrote:
| Exactly what I thought. Portugal is a better deal for sure.
| codingkev wrote:
| Cyprus is probably the best overall deal out there right now,
| but it isn't the cheapest option.
| throwaway22032 wrote:
| For everyone discussing the 1M thing:
|
| The median Icelandic salary is approx 600,000 ISK for context. So
| it's higher than the median, but not insane by any means.
|
| It seems logical to me that you'd only want to grant visas to
| people who are "above average".
| nebula8804 wrote:
| Dumb question...but is this considering income before or after
| taxes?
| mmstan wrote:
| Since tax situation is usually very different for different
| people and in different tax jurisdictions, it would be safe
| to say that this is considered income before taxes.
| codingkev wrote:
| I guess they just want well off people who leave their $$$ in the
| local economy for half a year. Fair enough, but not a very
| impressive deal.
|
| For comparison: Georgia (the country) offers a 360 day visa free
| entry for almost every country out there, no paperwork required.
| While the standard of living in Georgia is certainly lower, the
| nature there is much more diverse and just many more things to
| do.
| derelicto wrote:
| Any information if this can be turned to permanent residency?
| umeshunni wrote:
| The link says that a condition for approval is "The applicant
| does not intend to reside in Iceland for the long term. "
| Maciek416 wrote:
| Yes, there is information related to that: "The
| applicant does not intend to reside in Iceland for the long
| term."
|
| Mildly similar to the concept of "dual intent" in the US
| immigration system
| californical wrote:
| According to the link, a prerequisite for the visa is
| explicitly not intending to stay long-term
| shtopointo wrote:
| Maybe if you meet someone there and get married?
| floetic wrote:
| This is a pretty smart move. I believe Iceland is doing this to
| increase their diversity in their genetic pool
| https://www.brightfocus.org/alzheimers-macular-degeneration-...
| kylehotchkiss wrote:
| Wouldn't offering residential visas do a better job of that by
| giving marriages to foreigners a better chance of staying
| unified there?
| mr90210 wrote:
| No, thanks!
| m00dy wrote:
| Why would a person go there to work remotely ?
| mmstan wrote:
| So this is long-term visa which:
|
| 1) Is not visa, you have to not need visa for Iceland to qualify
| 2) Is not long term, it's valid up to 180 days
|
| On the other hand, they recognize remote workers which kind of
| fit somewhere in between tourists and people who come to work,
| which many other countries don't.
| jzymbaluk wrote:
| 3) is only available to citizens of mostly EU nations [1]
|
| [1] https://utl.is/index.php/en/eea-efta-citizens-and-their-
| rela...
|
| Maybe this is my American ignorance shining through here, but I
| didn't realize Iceland was not a member of the EU
| EduardoBautista wrote:
| It has the specific requirement of _not_ being an EU citizen.
| CalRobert wrote:
| If I'm not mistaken EU/EEA citizens wouldn't need this visa
| https://english.hi.is/university/entry_conditions_for_icela
| n...
| marcos100 wrote:
| British people are allowed!
| occamrazor wrote:
| The webpage specifies that it is _not_ available to citizens
| of EU/EFTA countries. In fact they can already work remotely
| from Iceland without any visa requirement, thanks to Freedom
| of Movement agreements.
| CalRobert wrote:
| It is, however, part of Schengen. An understandable mistake.
|
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iceland%E2%80%93European_Union.
| ..
| isbvhodnvemrwvn wrote:
| Schengen is inconsequential, they just don't check your
| documents. They are in EEA, with agreement for free
| movement of goods, people, services and capital which is
| much more important.
| SkyPuncher wrote:
| Most tourist visa's do not allow you to work (even remotely).
| I'm sure tons of people do it, but this is basically allowing
| people to legally "travel" the country for 6 months while
| explicitly working.
| digianarchist wrote:
| To my knowledge only the UK, Australia and Canada will allow
| remote work on a visitor visa with the caveat that the
| business must be based outside the country.
| trcarney wrote:
| It is a visa. Iceland offers visa free travel for many
| countries for the purposes of tourism. I haven't looked at
| Iceland's program but normally these programs are for 30-90
| days. Therefore 180 days would be considered a long term
| tourist visa.
| vsskanth wrote:
| Seems structured to attract remote workers mostly from other
| developed countries since you need to be from a place that
| doesn't need a visa to travel to Iceland. Not sure what this is
| intended to accomplish considering there's no pathway to
| permanent residency either.
| lotsofpulp wrote:
| I presume the goal is to allow people to spend money on the
| Icelandic economy that otherwise would not be spent in the
| Icelandic economy.
| basisword wrote:
| Surely it's intended to bring people with money to spend to
| Iceland? What other benefit do Iceland get from remote workers
| then injecting money into the economy?
| [deleted]
| el-salvador wrote:
| There are many Latin American countries that don't need a visa
| for Iceland. What makes it harder to obtain is the salary
| requirement.
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