[HN Gopher] Where in the world are Trader Joe's warehouses? (2015)
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       Where in the world are Trader Joe's warehouses? (2015)
        
       Author : walkersutton
       Score  : 172 points
       Date   : 2022-02-04 04:53 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (sburer.github.io)
 (TXT) w3m dump (sburer.github.io)
        
       | oliv__ wrote:
       | Looking at the map I wonder where the CO, UT, NM stores get their
       | supplies from? Seems like the only area without its own warehouse
        
       | chana_masala wrote:
       | I really enjoy this site's design. At first I thought that
       | LocalCDN was blocking some CSS/JS but to my surprise, no - it
       | just looks that way. I like it.
        
         | thrdbndndn wrote:
         | I like everything about "no-css" style except full-width
         | column. It's just too hard to read long lines of text.
         | 
         | Granted, it can be fixed by resizing my window.
         | 
         | *I also prefer sans-serif fonts but that's just my personal
         | preference.
        
       | sdoering wrote:
       | It should be noted that it is a project from 2015.
       | 
       | But just looking at the clusters, esp. on the east coast and look
       | at the marked known locations one can visually see that the 22
       | clusters don't make sense. You can visually cluster a lot of
       | stores towards the existing warehouses and remove the need for
       | the estimated ones in between.
       | 
       | But still this is an interesting approach as it helps in
       | identifying the clusters that seem to be served by these known
       | warehouses.
       | 
       | Maybe not taking the distance as the crow flies, but trying a
       | street route could be an optimization. And then trying to find
       | the minimal amount of clusters that still show the known
       | locations at roughly the center.
       | 
       | Not sure if this would be a valid approach.
        
       | rmason wrote:
       | Back in the nineties a very popular East Lansing supermarket
       | announced they were closing. A campaign was raised to get Trader
       | Joes to locate in the space. A major campaign was raised and they
       | gathered a pretty amazing 20-25,000 signatures online.
       | 
       | The organizers got a nice letter back from Trader Joes who said
       | they really appreciated their enthusiasm but the East Lansing
       | area was too small a municipal area for a Trader Joes but if that
       | criteria changed they'd keep us in mind. A number of the group
       | years later kept the campaign going and maintained an active
       | Facebook page.
       | 
       | A couple of months ago Trader Joes announced an East Lansing
       | store in that very strip mall they'd turned down decades earlier.
       | Different store but the exact same development.
        
         | JJMcJ wrote:
         | TJ's is OK but it's no substitute for a full supermarket.
        
           | smm11 wrote:
           | What is a real supermarket?
        
           | browningstreet wrote:
           | ..like Kroger, or Whole Foods?
           | 
           | I would say Kroger isn't a real supermarket, it's a junk food
           | market and pharmacopia.
        
             | mmmpop wrote:
             | >> I would say Kroger isn't a real supermarket, it's a junk
             | food market and pharmacopia.
             | 
             | I cannot fathom how you've come to this conclusion. I've
             | been to 100 Kroger stores in my life and not one fits your
             | description.
        
         | quickthrower2 wrote:
         | I get the sentiment: I was very excited to have an Aldi store
         | being built near me. Great value for money and an almost "grab
         | what you need and you wont get a shock at the till" unlike
         | other stores that do stuff like 2 slightly different tomato
         | varieties one double the price of the other. Another example
         | the coke is always a good price. Other supermarkets keep
         | rotating the 24 and 30 packs prices to pretend there is a
         | discount at any given time.
        
           | test6554 wrote:
           | My one and only experience with shopping at Aldi was nearly
           | rotten fruit, off-brand cardboard-tasting cereal and stale
           | chips. The price is hard to beat, but I feel too much like a
           | raccoon digging in a dumpster.
        
             | lp0_on_fire wrote:
             | My experience as well. Both at Aldi and Lidl. There's also
             | zero consistency week to week. They stock their shelves
             | with whatever the truck happens to bring in. Granted,
             | they're both "discount" grocery stores so I'm not expecting
             | gourmet fare but I'll gladly spend the extra few dollars to
             | shop at our local family owned grocery store that always
             | has great produce, meats, and a wide variety of options.
        
           | noduerme wrote:
           | >>stuff like 2 slightly different tomato varieties
           | 
           | I'm such an idiot shopper. I was on a date with a girl and
           | going to cook her dinner but I was missing a few vegetables.
           | Went to Fred Myer (local Kroger chain). I was picking up some
           | potatoes and the girl found a stack for half the price that
           | looked just as good, hidden on the other side of the produce
           | aisle. She was like, "you don't look for good deals, do you?"
           | Ugh. Shamed. I wish I'd had an excuse like "I wanted organic"
           | but the truth was I'd never known there was a whole separate
           | stack. Damn you Fred Myer!
        
             | quickthrower2 wrote:
             | Oh yeah thats another trick, out the cheaper ones somewhere
             | illogical! They just are doing price discrimination based
             | on how much time you have to hunt for the best deal.
        
               | sampo wrote:
               | The Norwegian groceries delivery company Oda, in their
               | app you can sort each category (e.g. hard cheeses) view
               | for price per item, or price per kg.
        
               | quickthrower2 wrote:
               | Yeah ordering online is sweet in this regard
        
               | noduerme wrote:
               | To me the downside of online ordering is I always feel
               | the need to tip extravagantly to make sure the delivery
               | person doesn't get me rotten tomatoes. It ends up being a
               | lot more expensive than just putting on a mask and
               | trundling down to the market. If I'm in the middle of
               | work I can justify it.
               | 
               | I used to enjoy going to the market. (Well, and a lot of
               | other things that aren't fun anymore).
        
               | unwind wrote:
               | As a Scandinavian person living almost wholly outside
               | "tipping culture", that worry just sounds bizarre.
               | 
               | Here, if you order food for home delivery from the major
               | grocery chains, the order is not packed by the driver,
               | and fresh produce is typically in smaller paper bags
               | inside the large outer bag (the ones the driver carries
               | from the truck).
               | 
               | There is no tipping of the driver, who just puts down the
               | bags outside our front door.
        
               | MagnumOpus wrote:
               | I don't think the delivery person has any influence on
               | your produce - at least in the UK, pickers and delivery
               | people are separate jobs, and I can't imagine it any
               | different in any efficient organization. (Also nobody I
               | knows tips for delivered groceries in the UK - the
               | delivery charge is supposed to pay for the delivery. This
               | might be different in the US like all things tipping.)
        
               | rootusrootus wrote:
               | Eh, that's not been my experience at Fred Meyer. The
               | produce section is open, with aisles, and while the
               | organic and non-organic versions of a particular item are
               | not usually next to each other (I could guess why),
               | they're not hidden nor difficult to find. Sometimes the
               | organic is farther back, sometimes up front, you just
               | have to use your eyes -- it's all in plain view.
        
           | AtlasBarfed wrote:
           | I'm a big fan of Walmart's generic soda. 70-90 cents for a
           | 2-liter from what I've seen. I particular Diet Dr Thunder,
           | generic dr pepper is a litmus test for me in generic soda
           | brands.
           | 
           | Their diet stuff flies off the shelves, so that HN story
           | about diet soda "spoiling" (was it methlyation?) isn't a
           | problem. I doubt it lasts even a day on the shelf.
           | 
           | Their kettle salt+vinegar potato chips, orange "yogurt"
           | (comparable to yoplait orange cream "yogurt"), generic life
           | cereal is all pretty good. You can tell, because those are
           | often not in stock, I think their production is limited by
           | agreements with the name brands I would speculate.
           | 
           | Aldi's generic soda was pretty bad. Meijers, most grocery
           | generics, all pretty crappy.
        
         | noduerme wrote:
         | TJs is the bomb. But their choice of store placement is
         | definitely cryptic. It always seems to be a little too far for
         | a regular grocery trip; somewhere close to a hip strip, close
         | to a blue collar neighborhood, but not quite walking distance
         | from either. They have a very specific demographic and I'm sure
         | they've been making shrewd property decisions as well. Here in
         | Oregon they have to compete with New Seasons, which mainly
         | sells locally sourced produce and kinda straddles the upper
         | line with Whole Paycheck, which everyone hates; and with
         | GrossOut (Grocery Outlet) which is just... a kind of amazing
         | place to go if you've never been there (they basically sell all
         | the day-old food from wholesalers alongside this month's new
         | test products that failed to launch - if you aren't picky what
         | you're going to cook, GrossOut is inspirational).
        
           | rootsudo wrote:
           | I've never had a great experience with GroceryOutlet and
           | don't understand how they operate or even have a franchise
           | model.
           | 
           | But my experiences are from the Seattle Area south to Oregon.
        
             | toast0 wrote:
             | The couple of times I was in one (San Jose), it seemed like
             | most of the stock was liquidated by other stores, and the
             | extremely low frills store vibe was in full effect, so I
             | suspect it's just a simple minimize the costs and hope.
             | There was a pretty decent crowd, so they've got a market of
             | IMHO price sensitive, quality insensitive customers.
        
           | carabiner wrote:
           | In SoCal, TJ's is everywhere. I had one near my house, one in
           | between my house and my office, and one by my office. This
           | was like a 20 minute commute. It's part of culture there,
           | like In-n-out.
        
           | hahajk wrote:
           | If you're interested in learning about how they choose
           | locations, Freakinomics did a good episode where they cover
           | just that. In short, they look for inexpensive locations that
           | are rising in value, with demographics that have high
           | education but relatively low income. (so, like, English
           | majors.)
           | 
           | https://freakonomics.com/podcast/season-11-episode-9/
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ecshafer wrote:
           | I feel like the location for Trader Joes in all of the places
           | I have lived has been essentially the same. It is in the
           | wealthy neighborhoods, but usually in a strip mall or other
           | location that's a bit cheaper than Whole Foods. At least in
           | Philly I think if there is a Trader Joe's there is a Whole
           | Foods < 1 Mile away.
        
       | rootsudo wrote:
       | I like the model he created to "detect" the warehouses, but it's
       | much easier to see the corporations via the state corporation
       | agency. There is also the idea that They wouldn't have pure
       | warehouses for everything and are direct white labeled direct
       | from manufacturers.
        
         | wildzzz wrote:
         | I'm sure many of the Trader Joe's store brand products are
         | white label. It seems inefficient to have such a wide range of
         | frozen products that are constantly changing. They simply find
         | a frozen pasta dish manufacturer that abides by whatever
         | quality guidelines and just change the label.
         | 
         | Another possibility is that trader Joe's does actually
         | manufacturer a lot of their rotating products but just simply
         | rotates the store that receive them so they don't need to have
         | a massive production for something so small. Cacio Pepe sauce
         | for new england area for this month, southwest region next
         | month.
        
       | hbarka wrote:
       | Trader Joe's is a favorite study in trying to explain how it
       | manages to thrive with just a small number of SKUs (~4000)
       | relative to typical grocery stores that carry 50,000 SKUs.
       | Perhaps this might shed light on their warehousing strategy.
        
         | heeen2 wrote:
         | Trader Joes is sort of related to ALDI and the condensed
         | offering of ALDI and its success has been written about before
         | 
         | https://www.forbes.com/sites/sanfordstein/2019/10/25/aldi-ri...
        
           | ak217 wrote:
           | But Trader Joe's uses a very different strategy compared to
           | ALDI. It caters to an audience that demands a much more
           | upmarket experience, and puts a lot more effort into team
           | culture, store decor/experience, and sourcing quality white-
           | label food SKUs for house branding.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | genocidicbunny wrote:
         | A big part of this is that they are ruthless with cutting
         | products that don't perform well. A good chunk of those ~4000
         | sku's are dedicated to items that are available for very short
         | periods as they are tested.
         | 
         | I think a big part of Trader Joe's success is that they have a
         | good core of staples that people are willing to come in for,
         | and then they have a big selection of new and interesting items
         | that people are willing to try, since they're already there.
         | The quality of the staples allows them to fly under the radar
         | with the rotating stuff, which is in reality pretty hit or
         | miss. But this symbiotic relationship between the core and the
         | experimental sides allows them to quickly iterate through the
         | experimental stuff to find more popular items.
        
           | indigodaddy wrote:
           | Seems spot on with my experience and shopping there. Well
           | said.
        
             | smm11 wrote:
             | The frozen food section at TJ is an innovation in itself.
        
         | reducesuffering wrote:
         | Easy. You don't need ten different types of butter, yogurt,
         | tea, etc. You can grab the single TJ branded item and have a
         | reliable indicator it's reasonably healthy, tasty, and a good
         | value with minimal margin.
        
           | flyinghamster wrote:
           | It flips the script - make the store brands the central
           | offering, with big names as a sideline.
           | 
           | Another thing I've seen is that a product might appear only
           | once in a while, but is never discontinued - it's in rotation
           | with other products. I've seen this a lot with frozen goods.
           | That gives them a way to offer variety without having
           | zillions of SKUs in stock at any given time.
        
       | miohtama wrote:
       | Interesting bit of history of Aldi, the owner of Trader Joe. The
       | grocery chain was founded by two brothers. They could not get
       | along, so they decided to split the world to "Aldi North" and
       | "Aldi South" chains. Both use the same logo.
        
         | Rebelgecko wrote:
         | One of the brothers was also kidnapped in the 70s, and there
         | was a whole court case about him writing off the ransom money
         | as a business expense
        
       | SeanLuke wrote:
       | Trader Joe's presents an interesting punctuation problem. The
       | most common rule, I think, for forming possessives is rule #1 of
       | Strunk and White: "Form the possessive singular of nouns with 's.
       | Follow this rule whatever the final consonant." But Trader Joe's
       | already has an apostrophe. Should the proper writing of this
       | headline should have been...
       | 
       | Where in the World are Trader Joe's's Warehouses?
       | 
       | Or should it have been...
       | 
       | Where in the World are Trader Joes's Warehouses?
        
         | mindslight wrote:
         | Trader Joe owns the stores, and he also owns the warehouses.
        
           | SeanLuke wrote:
           | A reasonable parsing at the time of the article I suppose
           | (2016), but not today: Trader Joe (Joe Coulombe) cannot
           | possibly own warehouses, as he died in 2020.
        
             | mindslight wrote:
             | Trader Joe lives on in spirit, along with Trader Jose and
             | Trader Giotto.
        
           | netizen-936824 wrote:
           | I think this option makes the most sense, rather than
           | treating "Trader Joe's" as one unit that has different rules
           | than normal language
        
         | Jxl180 wrote:
         | If we swap it with Amazon, it sounds correct to say "where are
         | Amazon's warehouses?" But is it really incorrect to say, "where
         | are Amazon warehouses?"
        
           | SeanLuke wrote:
           | I dunno. It sounds wrong to say "where are Safeway
           | warehouses?" -- it sounds more appropriate to have instead
           | said "where are _the_ Safeway warehouses? "
        
         | browningstreet wrote:
         | I think there's a rule you don't repeat punctuations like
         | this... one is enough.
        
         | alksjdalkj wrote:
         | "Trader Joe's" could also be being used as an adjective in this
         | headline right?
        
           | SeanLuke wrote:
           | Yes, but that would change the intended meaning of the
           | headline.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | Digory wrote:
       | Clever, but the guesses aren't useful, because "the middle" is
       | rarely the most efficient place to get goods off trucks and rail.
       | I know the TJs in Kansas are stocked from a Kansas Aldi
       | distribution center, near rail and highways.
       | 
       | A better start might be mapping known Aldi warehouses.
       | 
       | https://careers.aldi.us/employment/olathe-warehouse-jobs/61/...
        
         | kabes wrote:
         | That would mean that Aldi Nord and Aldi Sud share warehouses?
        
           | indigodaddy wrote:
           | It seems fairly unlikely doesn't it? I was under the
           | impression they had a fairly intense, and not so friendly,
           | rivalry.
        
             | picsao wrote:
        
             | elloworld1221 wrote:
             | Afaik, they have been working for the last few years on
             | cooperation, since the original brothers are now out of the
             | picture.
        
               | ahartmetz wrote:
               | Yup - e.g. and IIRC, Aldi Nord and Aldi Sud are unifying
               | their store brands in Germany.
        
               | Freak_NL wrote:
               | A necessity in order to stay competitive against Lidl
               | (comparable customer segment). ALDI took quite a punch by
               | Lidl in the Netherlands (these were all of the ALDI Nord
               | concern, but were not labelled as such), and depended on
               | inertia (being the first and most well-established
               | discount grocer) for too long.
        
               | indigodaddy wrote:
               | Ah ok, thanks, it's been a few years since I've kept up..
        
         | Spooky23 wrote:
         | The corridors are similar Western NY -> DC corridor is probably
         | served by a facility in Pennsylvania. New England to Albany to
         | Connecticut is probably near Worcester, MA.
         | 
         | I know that for McDonalds and Aldi, Albany, NY is "Boston" and
         | Utica west is "Pennsylvania". It's all about the transport
         | corridors and modes.
        
       | jreed91 wrote:
       | Funny thing. The author now has a Trader Joe's in his hometown.
        
       | hbcondo714 wrote:
       | I wish Trader Joe's would start a delivery service since they
       | don't partner with delivery vendors like Instacart. Great and
       | unique selection of food!
        
         | jonas21 wrote:
         | > _Great and unique selection of food!_
         | 
         | I suspect that's why they don't partner with delivery vendors.
         | Grocery stores would rather you came in person. You'll make
         | impulse buys, they can direct you to products where they have
         | excess inventory, and they can maintain a direct relationship
         | with you.
         | 
         | Most are forced to offer delivery precisely because they don't
         | have a "great and unique selection of food." If they don't
         | support delivery, you'll get the same products from a
         | competitor who does. Trader Joe's doesn't have to because you
         | can't find their products anywhere else.
        
           | wildzzz wrote:
           | Trader Joe's definitely benefits from people walking the
           | aisles. They put all kinds of interesting new products right
           | next to staples so you are more inclined to buy it. If I
           | could just browse the product offering online, I'd be able to
           | just pick exactly what I needed and wouldn't be checking out
           | with some new dip, cheese, beverage, or pasta sauce that had
           | piqued my interest.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | supernova87a wrote:
         | I remember in the beginning of the pandemic they were asked to
         | comment on this, especially about how online ordering and
         | pickup could help people in the situation.
         | 
         | The COO (?) specifically said that they preferred to invest in
         | their people and store experience, not automation or such
         | technology.
         | 
         | edit: ah, found the articles:
         | 
         | https://www.businessinsider.com/trader-joes-wont-offer-groce...
         | 
         | https://www.boston.com/food/coronavirus/2020/04/24/trader-jo...
        
           | ghaff wrote:
           | And delivery runs counter to that if you deliver from one of
           | their stores because you now have pickers for delivery
           | clogging up the aisles.
           | 
           | It is an idiosyncratic store. To tell you the truth, I'm not
           | as enthusiastic about them as some people are though I go in
           | from time to time if they're convenient. They have a _lot_ of
           | prepared food and possible healthier and better quality
           | prepared food is still prepared food which I don 't eat a lot
           | of.
        
             | brewdad wrote:
             | They've been a lifesaver for my son in college. He's living
             | in a dorm but the housing service has struggled the entire
             | year with staffing, food stocks, and just generally being
             | able to feed kids who don't have 60-90 minutes to spend
             | standing in line.
             | 
             | TJ's is right off-campus and he's able to pick up meals he
             | can prep in his dorm room a few nights a week when a lab or
             | extra-curricular keeps him from being able to get food at
             | the dining hall.
        
         | QuercusMax wrote:
         | It's especially baffling because TJs deliberately keeps a
         | fairly small number of SKUs, so it is actually much better
         | placed for online orders than more traditional grocery stores
         | that have 12 kinds of Cheerios.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | genocidicbunny wrote:
           | I think online ordering would just be too far outside their
           | wheelhouse. I don't know what improvements they have made
           | over the years, but when I used to work there years and years
           | ago they were very much a human-driven company. By that I
           | mean that ordering was done entirely manually by people that
           | specialized in their sections, inventory tracking was rather
           | loosely done, and the customer question of 'do you have any
           | of X in the back' would need to be answered by actually
           | checking in the back.
           | 
           | From my experience on the customer side since, things haven't
           | changed much at all. In light of that, I think that even now,
           | online ordering for them would be a mess that the company
           | just can't afford in customer goodwill.
        
             | doublepg23 wrote:
             | Currently working in retail and that sounds like a
             | nightmare of a system.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | luckystarr wrote:
       | K-means is a nice approximation but not very precise in this
       | context. Averaged driving time and fuel usage probably played a
       | role in determining a warehouse's location.
        
       | fluxem wrote:
       | The distribution of stores looks like this https://xkcd.com/1138/
        
       | wodenokoto wrote:
       | The author ends their analysis a little early, which is a shame,
       | because it is a fun but also very interesting research question.
       | 
       | Next step would be to plot the known/suspected warehouses and
       | give an error measurement for the best predicted locations
       | against those more or less known warehouses.
       | 
       | Further steps could be to look into a pattern of how those
       | known/suspected warehouses are placed in relation to stores, and
       | extrapolate that into the missing warehouse locations.
        
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       (page generated 2022-02-04 23:02 UTC)