[HN Gopher] Routed Gothic Font
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Routed Gothic Font
        
       Author : pabs3
       Score  : 241 points
       Date   : 2022-02-03 09:16 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (webonastick.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (webonastick.com)
        
       | barnabee wrote:
       | I don't know... maybe it's just not ugly?
        
       | typon wrote:
       | This post reminds me: every time I order any product from China,
       | the labels always use this "ugly" font that an hour of Googling I
       | couldn't find the name of. Does anyone know what font this is?
       | Somehow every factory in China seems to use it. It's actually
       | quite legible - not a bad design for making unambiguous labels
        
         | mminer237 wrote:
         | SimSun? Basically there's only one or two Simplified Chinese
         | fonts in Windows, so everyone uses the default Chinese font for
         | everything. That's why it's so popular, and they just use the
         | same font since it also includes its infamous Latin characters.
         | In addition to being overused and Latin characters not being
         | the focus of the font, part of the reason its ugly on top of
         | that is that since Chinese is generally monospaced, the Latin
         | characters are also monospaced at half width and just generally
         | sized weird to fit in better with Chinese.
        
           | typon wrote:
           | Thanks for the font name and the explanation!
        
       | hda111 wrote:
       | I don't like this font at all. When you make a font for technical
       | writing use a font that allows to differentiate between l1I and
       | 0Oo.
        
       | qbasic_forever wrote:
       | Someone make a monospaced version so I can use it in a terminal.
       | :)
        
       | Semaphor wrote:
       | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22399161 2 years ago, 57
       | comments
       | 
       | Anyway, I wanted to ask: Why is it ugly? What about it is? I
       | found it beautiful and much better looking than most fonts I see
       | on the web nowadays.
        
         | CapsAdmin wrote:
         | I thought that it's meant look imprecise which communicates
         | that it's not final.
         | 
         | similar idea and discussion from RoughViz:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21648968
        
           | tasha0663 wrote:
           | It doesn't look imprecise per se. These are just the
           | letterforms you can get out of wood with a router.
           | 
           | I'm curious why it's associated with blueprints, but I have
           | no insight into the history of applying type to blueprints.
           | 
           | EDIT: to answer my own question, it has to do with the
           | scribing device used for Leroy letters. One of which was used
           | to source this font. Nice description of how it was used here
           | https://kleinletters.com/Blog/leroy-lettering-by-jim-and-
           | mar...
        
         | IgorPartola wrote:
         | It makes me think of a 1970s carpeted office. Also of computers
         | running Windows 95 in a local library that are infuriatingly
         | slow and where right click is disabled in Internet Explorer.
        
         | yuubi wrote:
         | Letter shapes usually have curves a bit more complicated (in
         | the sense of "how many parameters do I have to write down to
         | reproduce it?") than this typeface. It feels like it's made of
         | straight segments and ellipses, and all the strokes are uniform
         | width and have round ends.
         | 
         | Also, the 'a' and 't' look like the kindergarten versions
         | instead of the more usual two-story 'a' and 't' with some sort
         | of curve at the bottom.
         | 
         | Most of this is almost certainly driven by the context this
         | typeface was designed for. The simple shapes probably come from
         | usability considerations for the lettering machine: the user
         | had to trace each stroke in the template by hand. The uniform
         | stroke weight and rounded ends come from how the engraving tool
         | worked: basically a drill bit you drag sideways.
         | 
         | The curves are probably that way because there was a fashion
         | for "modern" shapes a while back, which meant roughly
         | "describable with a simple formula and few parameters"
         | 
         | We're accustomed to typefaces that were designed for use in
         | movable type, where variable stroke weights and end shapes are
         | basically free.
        
           | Semaphor wrote:
           | Interesting, that might be it. I already dislike serif fonts
           | because I find they have too much complexity. So the
           | simplicity of this font might be what draws me to it and is
           | disliked by others.
           | 
           | I also do enjoy the rounded ends.
        
         | vanderZwan wrote:
         | Some people dislike anything that vaguely reminds them of Comic
         | Sans fonts I guess.
         | 
         | Personally I think it resembles VAG Round a lot, which is a
         | font fairly common in Germany (possibly because it was designed
         | for Volkswagen)
        
           | tokai wrote:
           | Oh I didn't even connect it to comic sans. It's very nice,
           | but nothing overwhelmingly different from another grotesque
           | font with rounded ends. CS is a script font and not a
           | grotesque so thats annoying if that is really the reason to
           | call it ugly.
        
             | WorldMaker wrote:
             | You realize that "grotesque" is often considered an English
             | synonym for "ugly"? The entire style of font has been
             | considered "ugly" for a lot longer than Comic Sans has
             | existed. It's a form that's not often symmetrical or exact
             | so it is an "odd" form and a lot of people historically
             | have found "odd" to be "ugly".
             | 
             | (Also, Comic Sans fits the definitions of both script fonts
             | and grotesque fonts, so it is probably extremely subjective
             | which bucket you prefer to define it.)
        
               | egypturnash wrote:
               | "grotesque" is also a term of art in font circles for a
               | certain kind of sans serif, which leads to endless
               | confusion.
               | 
               | "Look at that gorgeous grotesque" is a perfectly decent
               | sentence for a designer to say.
        
               | tokai wrote:
               | I dont understand why you think you little language
               | lesson is relevant. As you write yourself the true
               | (german) meaning of the term is strange. Laymen thought
               | they were bizarre and maybe ugly. But for most other they
               | were seen as very aesthetic from the onset. Which is why
               | these new fonts absolutely dominated the fraktur fonts.
               | The reaction to them was more about a culture shock than
               | an aesthetic disapproval.
               | 
               | It is a historic term and any interpretation were you
               | call CS grotesk would be suspect.
        
               | WorldMaker wrote:
               | The etymology of the term is from Latin (for "hidden
               | grotto"), and English inherited denotations (Dictionary
               | meanings) both from German font usage and from French. I
               | was pointing out the connotation (colloquial meaning) in
               | English of "ugly" simply that it shows evidence for a
               | long standing cultural bias. Enough of a long standing
               | cultural bias that people may call them "ugly" simply out
               | of "cultural habit" without examining where that bias
               | came from or why they feel that way.
               | 
               | I also subjectively think many of the grotesque fonts are
               | quite pretty, and I like Comic Sans too, but if you are
               | asking _why_ people think they are  "ugly", one of the
               | reasons is "subconscious cultural bias" and the "language
               | lesson" was pointing out deep evidence of that (at least
               | in English speaking cultures).
        
           | unfocussed_mike wrote:
           | Many people don't know this font and yet it turns out spent
           | some part of 16 years pressing their fingertips on it:
           | 
           | https://jalopnik.com/see-if-you-can-spot-the-vw-
           | connection-i...
        
       | mkl95 wrote:
       | It looks like old guy Comic Sans, although there's something more
       | charming about it.
        
       | aught wrote:
       | these are beautiful
        
       | leephillips wrote:
       | Everything about this web page is awesome. The rest of the site
       | is pretty sweet, too (there is a "proof" that p is rational that
       | I enjoyed).
       | 
       | I especially like the links to related work. Too many people
       | write about what they made, or put up a page explaining
       | something, giving the impression that they are the only ones who
       | ever wrote about the thing or did any work on it in the history
       | of human thought. The web thrives on linkage.
        
         | phkahler wrote:
         | >> The web thrives on linkage.
         | 
         | It does, but a business never wants you to leave their site so
         | outbound links are considered bad. Oddly, they love inbound
         | links which would be outbound for someone else. Some people
         | extend this to their blogs, as it is definitely important for
         | SEO using the original page-rank algorithm.
         | 
         | Now that I think of it, having no outbound links is a great way
         | to rank a page as _less_ useful in some sense.
        
           | leephillips wrote:
           | It does make it less useful, in an objective sense. Before
           | the web, the practice of linking to other work, through
           | footnotes, references, or just mentioning it in the text, was
           | essential for anything to be taken seriously, and an absolute
           | requirement for any scholarly publication. The web is,
           | potentially, a wonderful evolution of this custom. You're
           | right about some commercial sites avoiding outbound links,
           | but none of the ones I write for; all my editors encourage
           | it. And there is no excuse to find this tendency to isolation
           | on a personal site. I tend to avoid reading, and especially
           | linking, to resources without good outbound links.
        
       | 369548684892826 wrote:
       | The author says he copied the font from a Leroy Lettering set. I
       | don't get how he can copy a font from that set and then
       | distribute it with an open license?
        
         | pronoiac wrote:
         | This delves into the details:
         | https://www.crowdspring.com/blog/font-law-licensing/
         | 
         | > Among other ways, you can lawfully print every glyph on a
         | printer, scan the image and then trace each image on your
         | computer (none of this would involve copying the software or
         | program representing the fonts).
        
       | dsign wrote:
       | Totally off-track, but seeing this font made me wonder: we have
       | steam-punk, which is nostalgia for the times of the steam engine.
       | Isn't it time we have a similar genre for the technology of the
       | mid-twentieth-century?
        
         | goblinux wrote:
         | Also check out atompunk, which is a jetsons-esque atomic
         | powered future. The Fallout video game series is a great
         | presentation of cool atompunk tech/aesthetic
         | 
         | Also all these:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyberpunk_derivatives#Retrofut...
        
         | mhandley wrote:
         | Sounds like you're describing Dieselpunk:
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieselpunk
        
           | dsign wrote:
           | Ahh, thanks!
        
       | PaulHoule wrote:
       | I read a lot of papers about space travel, nuclear energy, and
       | other technology from the 1960s and 1970s and love the use of
       | typefaces similar to this.
        
       | unfocussed_mike wrote:
       | I think it would be easier to evaluate this font if the page were
       | not using                 -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased;
       | 
       | which IMO really should be a last resort, and with this
       | particular colour combination triggers halos that detract from
       | readability.
        
         | executesorder66 wrote:
         | I don't see that anywhere in the page source. And when I try to
         | manually inject that css it says it's an invalid property name.
         | 
         | For context, I'm using Firefox on Linux. Also I haven't done
         | any real front-end work in 10 years, so forgive me if I am
         | missing something obvious here.
        
           | unfocussed_mike wrote:
           | It's an invalid property in Firefox, yes, so you're not
           | seeing its effects.
           | 
           | Firefox may simply not display it in the inspector, I'm not
           | sure!
           | 
           | Anyway it's in app.css on line 185; it's applied as a body
           | style. Looks like it comes from Zurb Foundation (ugh).
        
         | antihero wrote:
         | My word, that is so much nicer. I wish people would stop doing
         | this.
        
       | fanf2 wrote:
       | Mechanical keyboard enthusiasts might notice that Routed Gothic
       | is a fairly good match for the "Gorton Modified" legends on
       | Signature Plastics keycaps. Last year I put together an HHKB-like
       | homage to the BBC Micro keyboard, which required custom keycaps
       | to get the ECMA-23 bit-paired layout. I mostly used Routed Gothic
       | to design the keycaps: https://github.com/fanf2/kbd#gorton-like-
       | fonts
        
       | pandemiclatte wrote:
       | For years I used Staedtler's alphabet rulers to make annotations
       | in my notebooks. This font brings back such good memories!
       | thanks!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | acomjean wrote:
       | The old drafting font templates. When I started engineering they
       | still did some of the plans by hand, using these templates to
       | write out the lettering with a pin that would convert it to pen.
       | 
       | They used it on some comics too.
       | 
       | https://kleinletters.com/Blog/leroy-lettering-by-jim-and-mar...
        
         | grapescheesee wrote:
         | Very sweet, I was wondering how it was implemented. The scriber
         | image really makes the letters more into the artwork of the
         | era.
        
           | jaclaz wrote:
           | In those times (and yes I am old enough to have actually used
           | them) we used plainer normographs or lettering guides[0]
           | where the ink pen was used directly inside the template.
           | 
           | Before the advent of so-called isograph/rapidograph pens, we
           | used those weird looking pens as depicted in the wikipedia
           | article and you had to be very, very careful as it was very
           | easy to inadvertedly ruin a drawing with ink coming out of
           | the (open top) reservoir.
           | 
           | [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lettering_guide
        
       | fancy_pantser wrote:
       | Another variation, inspired by nautical signage:
       | https://simplebits.com/products/ships-whistle-font
        
       | leke wrote:
       | Another font for my collection :)
        
       | qwtel wrote:
       | I suggest opening the dev console and adding "text-transform:
       | uppercase" to the body element which makes it more obvious that
       | it is in fact the same font as in the 1970s drawing. It also
       | makes it look less ugly, in my opinion.
        
       | kosma wrote:
       | A side question, does anyone know of a good source of some high-
       | quality, old-looking drawing templates (say, DIN A4
       | frame+information in the bottom right), or a way to make a new
       | template look "old"? I'm absolutely loving the blueprint
       | aesthetics but I struggle to find good quality scans of the stuff
       | to use in my own projects.
        
       | 2b3a51 wrote:
       | _" A clean implementation of a common lettering style found on
       | technical drawings, engraved office signs, computer and
       | typewriter keyboards, and some comic books and avionics from the
       | mid-20th century."_
       | 
       | Thanks to the authors/designers.
       | 
       | I remember orange-red ink on cream paper on the circuit diagrams
       | (schematics) glued in the lids of war-surplus electronics. Also
       | the fold out circuit diagrams in Iliffe press books. I shall use
       | is as the font for maths revision posters this year.
       | 
       | I suspect that the letter forms that I remember were drawn in pen
       | with stencils on the drawing board.
        
       | samwillis wrote:
       | A truly ugly and yet beautiful typeface is the original Art
       | Nouveau Paris Metro font _Metropolitaines_ from 1901:
       | 
       | http://luc.devroye.org/fonts-43924.html
        
       | RedShift1 wrote:
       | It does have a certain charm but the I and 1, O and 0 not being
       | distinct enough prevents me from actually using it.
        
         | unethical_ban wrote:
         | I rent a home and wanted to map the circuits and fuses to
         | lightswitches and outlets. I documented it in Excel and used
         | the "National Park" font to make it look like an old school
         | schematic.
         | 
         | I used that font for the reason you described.
        
       | marcodiego wrote:
       | Those who remember old Borland's graphics.h, remember it came
       | with an interesting set of fonts. Those were born in the 50's and
       | are known as "Hershey fonts".
       | 
       | There is a modern implementation compatible with the old Borland
       | fonts: http://libxbgi.sourceforge.net/
       | 
       | Disclaimer: I implemented it.
       | 
       | Watching bgidemo.c running correctly on a modern machine is
       | indescribably cool.
        
         | chrismorgan wrote:
         | Inkscape supports converting text to a variety of stroke fonts:
         | Extensions - Text - Hershey Text.
         | 
         | The fonts are SVG, stored in
         | /usr/share/inkscape/extensions/svg_fonts/ under Linux.
         | 
         | I recently took EMS Readability from there and adopted it into
         | a code base that is generating reMarkable documents with
         | strokes and all (rather than PDFs) in support of reverse-
         | engineering actually _good_ rendering, as I wanted text in my
         | generated documents.
        
         | miohtama wrote:
         | Nice work! If I recall correctly, I used these when I was
         | studying C in high school.
        
           | marcodiego wrote:
           | I'm sad to see graphics.h is still used in Pakistan, India
           | and Brazil.
        
             | waynecochran wrote:
             | That's sad because its antiquated and means folks are still
             | using DOS?
        
               | marcodiego wrote:
               | That's sad because it means there was no evolution in the
               | last 20 years. People learn something, teach it and it
               | gets frozen. Nothing new is learnt for decades.
        
               | waynecochran wrote:
               | It's weird there is someone still teaching using Borland
               | C ... that is early 1990 stuff... and using DOS! That's
               | closer to 30 years! It must be a cost thing.
        
               | marcodiego wrote:
               | I don't think it is a matter of cost. I think it is a
               | matter of what the teacher knows.
               | 
               | Just to be clear: I didn't say Borland C is still used in
               | Brazil. But you still can find CS courses teaching
               | graphics.h just the same way. Actually, if it is used
               | just for demo purposes I'd see no problem, it is still
               | somewhat adequate for the purpose. I doubt that, though.
        
         | eloisius wrote:
         | I've seen some references to Hersey fonts in OpenCV's text
         | rendering. I wonder if those are from the same lineage.
        
       ___________________________________________________________________
       (page generated 2022-02-04 23:01 UTC)