[HN Gopher] Genealogy of Relational Database Management Systems ...
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       Genealogy of Relational Database Management Systems [pdf]
        
       Author : theintz
       Score  : 47 points
       Date   : 2022-02-03 16:26 UTC (6 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (hpi.de)
 (TXT) w3m dump (hpi.de)
        
       | buescher wrote:
       | Pretty good. Where would the Oracle Lite products go?
        
       | errcorrectcode wrote:
       | R:BASE isn't listed, an important PC relational DBMS.
       | 
       | Postgres / Enterprise DB converges towards compatibility with
       | Oracle DBMS.
        
       | tmnstr85 wrote:
       | Where does Snowflake go on this map?
        
         | tmnstr85 wrote:
         | PS... this map is really cool
        
       | arjunrc wrote:
       | This is incredible to see all in one place. I'm preaching SQL to
       | my Org. and it's only getting preachier over the years, as I see
       | new technologies come and go (OLAP, NoSQL and it's many
       | variations including Hadoop, Azure Cosmos DB).
       | 
       | For an Org. of our size, I'm not sure if these new fads make it
       | any easier. Even if they helped with data streaming, we still are
       | having to move it to a SQL warehouse where we can combine it with
       | other Org. data to answer business questions. Not sure if anyone
       | has built out a fully operational reporting architecture without
       | using SQL on HN. Long live SQL!
        
         | errcorrectcode wrote:
         | OLAP isn't a technology and it didn't go away. That's an
         | approach your and many other orgs have been using for decades
         | to do data warehousing. NoSQLs definitely didn't go away.
         | 
         | The need for denormalized data and data warehousing will never
         | go away.
        
         | ubermonkey wrote:
         | I'm kind of amazed that SQL needs to be preached about. It
         | works really well! Just pick whatever flavor works best for
         | your org and go forward.
         | 
         | What would you use INSTEAD of SQL?
        
           | grafs50 wrote:
           | I'd love to have the ability to write a direct query plan,
           | for the rare occasion where the query planner does something
           | stupid. But, ya SQL is great for the majority of situations.
        
           | ginko wrote:
           | I've only had contact with DBs during my university years so
           | please bear with me, but at least to me (mostly a systems
           | programmer who played around with functional and logic
           | programming languages) SQL seems, I dunno.. very crude? For
           | instance it seems to me that PROLOG is a lot better at
           | querying/defining relational facts.
           | 
           | Also every time I looked into SQL DBs I felt uncomfortable
           | having to patch together SQL queries as strings and compile
           | them at runtime. Why can't I define a DB schema in my
           | compiled programming language and have it produce a typesafe
           | query that can execute immediately? I know there's wrappers
           | that help you define queries in a typesafe manner, but afaik
           | these still generate query strings in the background.
        
             | SonOfLilit wrote:
             | Few people, when they say "SQL is amazing!", mean the
             | language.
             | 
             | The language is ok minus, it's usable and isn't a problem
             | center. String parsing isn't expensive enough for anyone to
             | replace, and there are many benefits to the 100% language
             | decoupling it ensures.
             | 
             | What we mean is "RDBMSs are amazing!", and they are.
             | Humanity has spent a lot of resources on their design and
             | evolution, making them into systems that efficiently solve
             | your hard problems years before you first find out you have
             | them.
        
               | ubermonkey wrote:
               | Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
        
             | errcorrectcode wrote:
             | Prolog isn't a DBMS, it's a functional / logic programming
             | language. It doesn't store tables or operate on relational
             | algebra.
             | 
             | How would you CRUD data DDL, DQL, DML, DCL, TCL against
             | tables (not facts or variables) without SQL? Magic?
             | 
             | And why are you cobbling queries together manually and not
             | using an ORM or library? SMH.
        
           | errcorrectcode wrote:
           | Some people think maintaining bank accounts on Mongo would be
           | a good idea.
           | 
           | ACID, locking, referential integrity, SQL (language flavors
           | and RE DBMSes) aren't appreciated, probably due to a lack of
           | CS education.
        
           | Zababa wrote:
           | Key-value stores seem easier to reason about for simple use
           | cases.
        
         | bob1029 wrote:
         | > I'm preaching SQL to my Org. and it's only getting preachier
         | over the years
         | 
         | We are all-in on using SQL (SQLite) for our business logic
         | these days. It's wonderful being able to watch the business
         | build most of our customer experiences for us. No more lost-in-
         | translation bullshit exercises between the biz and the tech.
         | Our developers are now mostly tending to the SQL matrix that
         | everyone else works inside of every day. Most of my support
         | issues are along the axis of "Why isnt customer property X
         | showing up in table Y under circumstances Z". We have built a
         | lot of custom tooling so we can quickly answer this question
         | with confidence. 9/10 times the resolution is 1 line in a
         | mapper that needs to be updated somewhere.
         | 
         | For me, SQL only works if the schema is clean and the business
         | can understand why it is constructed in the way that it is. If
         | you were to dump your SQL schema to excel sheets and email it
         | to your project manager, would they have a clue how to piece
         | these things back together or why things are represented the
         | way they are? A well-normalized schema should be intuitive to
         | join together by even non-domain experts. Simply being
         | consistent with naming throughout is 80% of this battle in my
         | mind. When someone says the word "Customer" in context of your
         | SQL schema, everyone on the team should implicitly be on the
         | same page regarding properties and relations around this type.
        
       | firstSpeaker wrote:
       | FoxPro!
        
       | progre wrote:
       | At a workshop at Microsoft a few years ago they proudly told us
       | that they at that point only maintained 5 internal forks of SQL
       | server, recently down from 8.
        
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       (page generated 2022-02-03 23:02 UTC)