[HN Gopher] Postman Now Supports gRPC
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Postman Now Supports gRPC
        
       Author : ace33
       Score  : 368 points
       Date   : 2022-02-02 12:45 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.postman.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.postman.com)
        
       | dec0dedab0de wrote:
       | I see people complaining about what postman has become, but I
       | never really saw the need for it to begin with.
       | 
       | When I'm exploring a new API I just do it in jupyter with
       | python/requests. This way, when I figure out how to do what I
       | want I already have some working code. I can see how this
       | workflow would be a pain in a static language, but for dynamic
       | languages I don't understand why more people don't do it this
       | way.
        
         | rplnt wrote:
         | To be fair, you can export python code from Postman as well.
         | 
         | And it allows you to load swagger/openapi spec which makes the
         | exploration phase rather trivial.
         | 
         | disclaimer: I also hate using Postman because it's too big,
         | complex, slow
        
           | toqy wrote:
           | Yeah the real value of Postman for me is that often times
           | other teams will have postman collections that you can just
           | import and explore an api with. Not that I really like what
           | Postman itself has become though.
        
       | soraminazuki wrote:
       | On a related note, I'm wondering if there are plans for updating
       | httpbin. The httpbin repo was transferred to the Postman
       | organization somewhere between January and March of 2019 [1]. The
       | last commit was made on November 2018 [2] and it's currently
       | suffering from outdated Python dependencies.
       | 
       | [1]:
       | https://web.archive.org/web/20190322170311/https://github.co...
       | 
       | [2]: https://github.com/postmanlabs/httpbin
        
         | a85 wrote:
         | I'll look into it. Thanks for pointing it out!
        
       | smoyer wrote:
       | I've been using gRPCurl for years and, once you understand gRPC
       | and Protobuf, it's pretty easy to use and can be scripted in many
       | ways - https://github.com/fullstorydev/grpcurl.
        
       | fooaccount123 wrote:
       | https://github.com/postmanlabs/postman-app-support/issues/27...
       | lol
        
       | paozac wrote:
       | I used to like Postman, when it was a simple browser extension. I
       | basically used it as a curl gui. Now
       | 
       | > Postman is an API platform for building and using APIs. Postman
       | simplifies each step of the API lifecycle and streamlines
       | collaboration so you can create better APIs--faster.
       | 
       | I guess I'm no longer their target user. Back to curl/httpie.
        
         | theFluke wrote:
         | If you're on macOS, Auxl (https://auxl.io) is another option to
         | try. Support for gRPC should be coming soon. Disclosure: I am
         | the author.
        
         | wackget wrote:
         | RESTER on Firefox: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-
         | US/firefox/addon/rester/
        
         | adam_arthur wrote:
         | The UX has gotten noticeably worse for me. Maybe I'm using it
         | wrong, but now you have to setup a project and name things
         | before you can actually start issuing requests.
         | 
         | And I found the whole experience a bit confusing in terms of
         | user flow
        
           | ljm wrote:
           | New law: Any novel product with VC funding will inevitably
           | grow a vestigial CMS.
        
           | cyral wrote:
           | It really needs some love in the UX department. There are so
           | many icons and toolbars it is hard to understand where to
           | find things or why they are placed where they are.
        
         | BiteCode_dev wrote:
         | Incidently, httpie is getting a GUI:
         | https://github.com/httpie/desktop
        
           | skrebbel wrote:
           | And VC funding!
        
             | capableweb wrote:
             | Oh, that's really unfortunate, I really like httpie. I
             | wonder how long time it'll take for them to end up trying
             | to extract as much value from each user as possible...
        
               | jkbr wrote:
               | HTTPie founder here. These are valid concerns. There are
               | two parts to this: 1/ What happens with HTTPie for
               | Terminal, and 2/ how HTTPie for Web & Desktop and the
               | overall platform will look like.
               | 
               | 1/ HTTPie for Terminal will always be open-source and
               | obviously free. The difference is that now we're able to
               | pay a talented developer to work on the project full-time
               | (the recent 3.0 release is a result of that).
               | 
               | 2/ We're building a new platform with the same principles
               | that made HTTPie for Terminal successful in mind:
               | uncompromising simplicity, focus on productivity, and
               | delightful user experience. We're in the same space as
               | Postman, but the idea is to be anything like. We're
               | striving to become what Linear is to Jira, Vercel to AWS,
               | Figma to Adobe, etc. That is, to offer a much simpler and
               | more focused product. Premium services for companies will
               | be a natural extension of the single-player mode, and all
               | incentives will be aligned in a way that doesn't
               | cannibalize the core experience.
        
               | stavros wrote:
               | > I wonder how long time it'll take for them to end up
               | trying to extract as much value from each user as
               | possible...
               | 
               | As long as it'll take for the investment documents to be
               | signed.
        
             | revscat wrote:
             | Source? I really hope this isn't the case. Fucking
             | capitalists kill everything.
        
               | skrebbel wrote:
               | A lot depends on the founders. There's plenty VC funded,
               | OSS-originated businesses that don't suck. GitLab comes
               | to mind. There's no reason to immediately assume httpie
               | is going to be the Postman story repeated, although I
               | agree that with VC funding it's more likely than without.
        
               | mook wrote:
               | https://httpie.io/about says they've had a seed round
               | already. Looked it up because that sounds... well it is
               | what it is.
        
         | danuker wrote:
         | > when it was a simple browser extension
         | 
         | You can download packages of extensions. I would recommend that
         | you do it for the ones you love.
         | 
         | But the browser APIs are constantly changing, forcing you to
         | keep running in order not to fall behind.
        
         | lucideer wrote:
         | I used to like Postman until it locked me out of my locally-
         | stored data while I was offline (testing my own applications on
         | localhost) for an extended period , I found out that it phones
         | home constantly (cannot be disabled) & locks you out if it
         | fails. The developers stating they had no intention of changing
         | this for "security reasons" before closing the Github issue
         | sealed the deal.
        
           | kaszanka wrote:
           | This sounds unbelievable but it seems to be true?
           | https://github.com/postmanlabs/postman-app-
           | support/issues/10...
        
             | judge2020 wrote:
             | This is OP's issue: https://github.com/postmanlabs/postman-
             | app-support/issues/38...
        
             | bathtub365 wrote:
             | I don't see anything in this issue that I'd characterize as
             | 
             | > The developers stating they had no intention of changing
             | this for "security reasons" before closing the Github issue
             | sealed the deal.
             | 
             | The issue is still open with no response from the
             | developers that mentions security reasons.
        
               | lucideer wrote:
               | There have been many tickets opened (and closed) on this
               | problem. Searching their issues for the keyword "offline"
               | should bring up some of them. This one is just the
               | latest.
        
               | cloverich wrote:
               | Its in issue in the sibling comment. The suggested work-
               | around is to not sign in at all.
        
               | lucideer wrote:
               | For further context: I'm not sure if this has changed but
               | at that time signing in seemed* to be required (there's
               | some discussions in the ticket about confusion in the UI
               | about this so in retrospect UX dark patterns were likely
               | at play). However, while it may have been possible to
               | make ad hoc requests without an account, it didn't seem
               | to be possible to _save_ request collections locally
               | without sign in.
        
               | a85 wrote:
               | That is incorrect. You can save requests inside
               | Collections in the Scratchpad and send requests without
               | an account.
        
               | lucideer wrote:
               | Not sure what I said that's incorrect?
               | 
               | The original issues were from 2015 & 2017 - Scratchpad
               | was only added to docs in Jun 2021 (before that was an
               | undocumented feature for likely under 2 years I would
               | guess).
               | 
               | Also, on the suitability of Scratchpad as a workaround
               | for this bug, as quoted from person who created the
               | linked issue:
               | 
               | > _and no, scratchpad is not a solution to this._
               | 
               | The same sentiment is echoed through many of the more
               | recent closed issues created in Github on this topic.
               | 
               | Either way: my comment above was mainly about dark
               | patterns, which makes the existence of a workaround (not
               | matter how suitable) somewhat moot. Even if this issue
               | gets fixed "properly", the attitude of their devs over
               | this long a period of time has been more than enough to
               | turn me off using their software.
        
         | sbmthakur wrote:
         | > I basically used it as a curl gui.
         | 
         | I just use Browser's Network tab for that nowadays. CORS can be
         | a trouble at times, but that can be avoided with a few tweaks.
        
           | dewey wrote:
           | I think the killer feature for these separate tools is
           | usually that you can easily do a right click -> "copy as
           | curl" in the network inspector, then import it in Postman/Paw
           | and then tweak parameters / add headers there. This is not
           | really possible in the browser network tools.
        
             | ROARosen wrote:
             | On the on Microsoft Edge chromium you can can enable an
             | "edit and resend" feature save the requests to
             | "Collections" and create request environments.
        
             | panzerklein wrote:
             | It seems pretty easy with Firefox - there's "Edit and
             | resend" in the context menu of every request.
        
               | dewey wrote:
               | And then you accidentally refresh or close the tab and
               | everything is gone. I usually use specific requests over
               | many days if I'm reverse engineering something so having
               | these available, sorted in folders for me is important.
               | Of course for other uses cases it might be fine to have
               | them live in the browser.
        
               | ROARosen wrote:
               | Se above. On MS Edge chromium you can enable to save the
               | requests and even saved environments
        
             | nerdite wrote:
             | I take that curl command to https://curlconverter.com
             | 
             | And get Python that I can start iterating on. They have
             | lots of languages.
             | 
             | I used to use Postman but the clarity of the code is so
             | much easier to see what's happening vs postman imo.
        
         | nileshtrivedi wrote:
         | Try Insomnia or Hoppskotch.
        
           | oweiler wrote:
           | How is Insomnia any different? It's basically an OSS carbon
           | copy of Postman.
        
             | BoorishBears wrote:
             | You asked how it's different then stated how it's
             | different.
             | 
             | Because it's OSS they didn't feel the need to bog down a
             | perfectly functional product to drive a valuation up.
             | 
             | It's a carbon copy of what Postman started as.
        
             | piaste wrote:
             | I switched to Insomnia about a year ago for two main
             | reasons:
             | 
             | - Didn't choke when having ~50 request 'tabs' open
             | 
             | - Didn't try to sell me shit
             | 
             | Granted, Postman had quite a lot more tools in its box for
             | scripting, testing, sharing etc. but I didn't need those.
             | 
             | Insomnia has got a bit fatter since then, but it remains
             | more responsive than Postman was.
        
             | phgn wrote:
             | That's what I want. A local-only Postman without too many
             | features or configuration overhead. Insomnia is almost
             | perfect for that.
        
         | hadrien01 wrote:
         | I just use the HTTP Client from IntelliJ/Rider. It's text only,
         | you can use variables (for Auth for example), and I can
         | copy/paste queries from Fiddler Classic/my browser or to
         | colleagues.
        
         | chin7an wrote:
         | Paw[0] is a pretty good native macOS option, at least for now.
         | They were acquired sometime last year by RapidAPI[1], and since
         | have released electron based versions of their app for Linux
         | and Windows.
         | 
         | I'm really hoping they don't go the 1Password route and kill
         | their native macOS product to move everyone to the cross-
         | platform one.
         | 
         | [0] https://paw.cloud/ [1] https://rapidapi.com/
        
           | jim180 wrote:
           | No, we are not gonna kill native macOS app![0]
           | 
           | [0] I'm lead developer for macOS app :)
        
             | lukevp wrote:
             | It seems unrealistic long term for any company to maintain
             | one native app and an electron app across other platforms.
             | Spotify did this for a while, but they eventually forced
             | everyone onto the electron app. Something to keep in mind.
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | > It seems unrealistic long term for any company to
               | maintain one native app and an electron app across other
               | platforms
               | 
               | Not sure if it's more or less unrealistic to have one
               | native app per platform.
               | 
               | > Spotify did this for a while, but they eventually
               | forced everyone onto the electron app
               | 
               | I don't think (but someone correct me if I'm wrong
               | please) Spotify has ever been a Electron app. If I recall
               | correctly they are indeed embedding Chromium but they are
               | doing their own custom binding (possibly via CEF), not
               | via Electron.
        
               | david38 wrote:
               | Often apps don't have one app per platform, often it's
               | just Mac or something. They get Electron so everyone can
               | use it and then suddenly the Mac app has an equal number
               | of users as Electron (or less) and then at that point
               | justifying development becomes difficult.
        
             | chin7an wrote:
             | Really hoping the native app survives. Thanks for the great
             | app! I've been a user for a long time and hope to remain
             | so.
        
             | 9dev wrote:
             | We own licenses for our developers too, and plan on buying
             | more. Please, please, please, don't screw us over and
             | change course later on. We really like Paw, and not being
             | based on Electron is the major selling point :)
        
         | tluyben2 wrote:
         | It is also buggy, resource hog and instable. I use it on Ubuntu
         | and os x m1 and I often have to kill it because it stops
         | accepting any inputs or it ate all memory (and cpu after that
         | when you click anything). Hoppscotsch and others are better
         | now: I guess they wanted way too much too fast (I did not check
         | but I suppose they got VC money?)?
        
           | quambene wrote:
           | Can confirm. Unfortunately, Postman is too resource-hungry
           | (on Ubuntu). Launching is taking a while as well.
           | 
           | I have to admit I'm quite surprised that VS Code (which is
           | also an electron app) is relatively fast and resource-
           | sensitive. Having open a few applications in my daily
           | workflow, moderate resource consumption is getting an
           | important selling point for me.
        
         | ironmagma wrote:
         | I've found Hurl to be quite usable.
         | 
         | https://hurl.dev/
        
         | mattbuilds wrote:
         | I used to use Postman but now I prefer to just build my own
         | scripts in Python. I use the requests library and can setup
         | things however I want.
        
           | anyfactor wrote:
           | Same here. I am not sure where would I even use postman for.
           | I essentially would wait 3-5 minutes to have postman
           | initialized, be greeted with a dialogue box for an update or
           | something, drop a json file for the headers and skim through
           | the output.
           | 
           | But it takes seconds to get up and running with requests-
           | html. And it can do anything Postman can do and more. I have
           | no idea how people in organizations use postman though.
        
             | [deleted]
        
             | zimpenfish wrote:
             | > I am not sure where would I even use postman for.
             | 
             | It's really handy for generating test suites to hand to
             | people who don't necessarily have the skills to write
             | Python / node / whatever code. Have worked at places where
             | certain changes needed a Postman collection alongside for
             | people to manually verify that it works.
             | 
             | (Also handy for un-coder people to make test suites, obvs.)
             | 
             | (Also handy as a quick-and-dirty "view this data via the
             | API" when you don't yet have a web UI etc.)
        
         | eatonphil wrote:
         | I'm building a desktop app that lets you query HTTP APIs but
         | also databases and files. So definitely something you can use
         | as a simple curl GUI. The big benefit of this tool though is
         | that you can script and graph results as well.
         | 
         | Always happy for any feedback!
         | 
         | https://github.com/multiprocessio/datastation
        
         | robofanatic wrote:
         | I wonder how much of that was driven by the silicon valley VC
         | culture. You won't get funding if you don't show growth and
         | "innovation", which means catering to all kinds of users
         | resulting into a bloated product with lots of bells and
         | whistles.
        
         | lovedaddy wrote:
         | The latest updates from httpie have an insomnia type rest
         | client workspace thing.
         | 
         | https://httpie.io/product
        
           | piokoch wrote:
           | This is some invite only software, am I missing something? I
           | couldn't use it right away, I was asked to join waitlist.
        
             | jkbr wrote:
             | HTTPie for Web & Desktop is in private beta. We're shipping
             | updates weekly and inviting people from the waitlist every
             | day. As soon as we've tackled the few remaining things on
             | our roadmap and polished some rough edges, it'll become
             | publicly available.
        
         | magicalhippo wrote:
         | I found SoapUI when I had to develop some SOAP services, but
         | these days it also does REST etc just fine.
         | 
         | For someone like me who just does this occasionally I found it
         | rather useful.
         | 
         | [1]: https://www.soapui.org
        
         | sillyquiet wrote:
         | Same story here. Postman just got too feature-rich for my
         | blood.
         | 
         | curl + bloomRPC + graphiQL covers all my bases nowadays.
        
       | thomaswormald wrote:
       | Good to hear. I became frustrated with the gRPC debugging
       | experience recently, so I wrote GrpcBrowser, an extension for
       | .NET apps that adds a swagger-like web UI:
       | https://github.com/thomaswormald/grpc-browser
        
       | nr2x wrote:
       | Pretty sure the entire value prop of gRPC is to help Xooglers
       | avoid learning modern tools.
        
       | truthwhisperer wrote:
       | Very solid development but please disable those pop ups that you
       | have to update your postman (always delivers) suite. That is very
       | annoying. I went back to version 7.x because of this.
        
       | newusertoday wrote:
       | if you are using emacs you can also give this a shot
       | https://github.com/federicotdn/verb
       | 
       | It lets you write the api, test it and generate the documentation
       | all from the same source of truth file.
        
         | federicotdn wrote:
         | Thank you for linking it!
        
       | hbn wrote:
       | Postman is so incredibly bloated and slow these days. All I want
       | is a REST client, but it feels like every time I want to perform
       | a basic task now, I have to dig past all of their confusing
       | platform and cloud stuff that I have no interest in.
        
         | robofanatic wrote:
         | they shouldn't have moved the company to silicon valley
        
         | lnenad wrote:
         | Completely agree, I've started making my own open source
         | lightweight version
         | 
         | https://github.com/lnenad/probster
         | 
         | It's golang + gtk so it uses 30MB of ram. I've made a website
         | https://probster.com with some screenshots. I plan on making a
         | barebones version available for download soon for all
         | platforms, just gotta get around to it because I don't have a
         | lot of experience with delivering desktop apps.
        
           | dwmbt wrote:
           | love the idea! i'd be willing to contribute but i'm sort of
           | useless when it comes to go... i do have a suggestion though!
           | lots of open source projects also use open collective [1] to
           | crowd source funds, so if you want to add another payment
           | method for users like me that don't have patreon that might
           | be something to look into.
           | 
           | [1] https://opencollective.com/
        
         | kawemi wrote:
         | If you would like an alternative that is still GUI, I
         | personally switched from Postman to Insomnia
         | (https://insomnia.rest/) in the last year and haven't looked
         | back. It has been acquired recently, but it's still open source
         | and very lean. Definitely recommend, you can even directly
         | import your Postman collections if you used them.
        
       | adhoc_slime wrote:
       | I have a meta question to ask, in threads like these where big
       | products announce new features or big funding I always see
       | commentors lamenting bloated software or it having too many
       | features, not doing the one simple thing you want it to do, etc.
       | To me it seems the only trajectory of developers building
       | products is to add new features, its how we justify keeping
       | ourselves around most of the time. So what my question is is how
       | do you actually expect products to just stop active feature
       | development? Or would you rather a second standalone app to
       | install?
       | 
       | I'm a relatively young developer so I'm hoping to gain some
       | insight from this mindset I see all too often.
        
         | johncena33 wrote:
         | It's also the demogrpahic of the internet. Internet is abundant
         | with, for a lack of a better term, toxic people. Which makes
         | sense if you think about it, since on the internet you can be
         | toxic with very very little to no consequences. Lot of toxicity
         | comes out in the form of criticisms. On a moderated forum like
         | HN it's not easy to criticize a person, so you go for the next
         | good thing - a company or a new area.
         | 
         | If one just reads the HN solely, they might get the impression
         | that Google is the most evil company on the earth since the
         | beginning of time. In reality very few people actually have
         | that kind of view. It's mostly toxic people need to find a
         | target to unleash their toxicity; on HN it's Google.
         | 
         | Since you are young, I'd advise to be very cautious on
         | internet. Never take internet crowd as a proper sample of real
         | world population. It's very skewed and almost always not in a
         | good way.
        
         | throwaway984393 wrote:
         | You've heard of the Unix philosophy? Small programs that do one
         | thing well. Composeability, so you can combine programs to make
         | new functionality.
         | 
         | Rather than build one console app that has 50 features, you
         | build 10 console apps with 10 features each. The complexity of
         | each component stays small while your capabilities as a user
         | grow and grow.
         | 
         | This worked originally as the Unix designers were free to
         | organize their code however made sense according to their
         | philosophy. But Conway's Law comes into play in organizations,
         | where there is always a hierarchy centred around one or two
         | main products. Rather than one or two people making 10
         | different apps, it's multiple teams making a couple apps each.
         | They don't communicate between each other well or understand
         | the other components, and it all has to fit inside one program.
        
           | capableweb wrote:
           | > You've heard of the Unix philosophy? Small programs that do
           | one thing well. Composeability, so you can combine programs
           | to make new functionality.
           | 
           | That makes sense in terms of CLI utilities where text/files
           | is the standard input/output, or APIs where json/xml/format-
           | of-today is the standard input/output, but how would you do
           | this with GUI tools? I'd love it if there was a solution, but
           | I'm not aware of one.
           | 
           | Many suites of software use a standard format for things
           | (like .obj/.fbx for graphic object/animation, or .wav for
           | music production), but there is usually not a pipeline as in
           | "pipe this output from this software into that input to that
           | software" like we do with CLI utilities, and if there is,
           | that pipeline is not standarized nor open for extension. Will
           | it ever be possible? I hope so, but I don't see how it can be
           | right now.
        
             | throwaway984393 wrote:
             | Linux GUI apps use DBUS to communicate between each other.
             | (I'm not a fan of it but it's better than nothing)
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | As a comparison against traditional unix pipes (or even
               | sockets), how does DBUS handle sending/receiving a lot of
               | data? I always got the impression DBUS is more for
               | notification style message passing, not actually for
               | sending data, so you'd send a message saying "fetch the
               | data from this socket" rather than "here's a bunch of
               | data for you".
        
               | pas wrote:
               | You can use DBus to call a remote procedure and pass the
               | path of a temp file where the real data is.
               | 
               | (You can pass actual file descriptors too.)
               | 
               | That said DBus is pretty fast. Basically somewhere around
               | 25-30% of TCP.
               | 
               | https://blogs.gnome.org/abustany/2010/05/20/ipc-
               | performance-...
        
         | tluyben2 wrote:
         | I definitely rather would have had a second (and third and
         | further,...) app. But I guess most people do not.
        
           | robofanatic wrote:
           | I always wonder we have usable version numbers for API's or
           | packages but why not for UIs. It would be nice to have the
           | ability to switch the app to a specific version in the past.
        
         | pm90 wrote:
         | This is an excellent question.
         | 
         | What I've noticed is that developers are incredibly annoyed
         | when their tools don't work well. Developers use their tools a
         | lot, and when a tool starts "misbehaving" (resource hungry,
         | sporadic failure, non ergonomic design etc) they are exposed to
         | that failure constantly. This constant exposure can create
         | intense feelings (either love or hatred) and nowhere to express
         | them, so it will spill out on slack and on HN threads (eg count
         | yourself lucky if you've worked somewhere that nobody has
         | ranted about terraform).
         | 
         | So take these criticisms with a grain of salt. The creators of
         | tools and the users aren't always aligned on the most important
         | thing to do next and you only have so much money and time to
         | execute on as a company so you have to make trade offs.
        
           | viro wrote:
           | man, terraform errors are VERY vague. at least when I was
           | using it.
        
         | croes wrote:
         | Plugins or extension are the way to go. So if you need a
         | feature you can install it.
         | 
         | VS Code gained its success mainly because of it's extensibility
         | through extension
        
         | chrisdhal wrote:
         | I agree with you. It seems funny to me in a lot of these
         | threads about new features that people complain about them,
         | then when somebody recommends program "XYZ" they complain "but
         | there hasn't been any updates in 2 years, it's obviously not
         | good or not used and I don't want to get stuck using an
         | obsolete package".
         | 
         | Can't win I guess.
        
         | lugu wrote:
         | There might be two types of features: those designed for the
         | existing user base, and those to extend this user base.
        
         | cannonpalms wrote:
         | Companies must show revenue improvements or they die. A vanilla
         | REST client is pretty damn hard to monetize. That makes the
         | Postman team's decisions perfectly rational. It's simply the
         | way the world works.
        
         | matsemann wrote:
         | You can't win. Most features added is because someone wants
         | them. One person's bloat is another person's long sought
         | feature.
         | 
         | Like a quote about Microsoft Office: A user only ever uses
         | about 10 percent of the features. The problem is that all users
         | use different 10 percents.
        
           | CSMastermind wrote:
           | This is solved in food products by differentiation. Someone
           | likes the no pulp orange juice so they buy that and someone
           | else likes the stuff with pulp in it so they buy that.
           | 
           | Why not do the same thing with software?
           | 
           | Release 10 different flavors of Microsoft Word and let people
           | choose the one they want.
        
             | Mindstormy wrote:
             | This sounds like a really bad idea. With orange juice it
             | takes less than 30 seconds to differentiate the versions.
             | If this was done with something like Microsoft Word you
             | would probably have to spend the better part of a day
             | teasing out exactly which features you needed or wanted. I
             | think a semi relevant modern example would be how the
             | release of hitman 3 worked out. They had to make a flow
             | chart of how to buy the right copy of the game with the
             | features you wanted.
             | 
             | https://i.redd.it/cfnqsnldc1d81.png
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | > They had to make a flow chart of how to buy the right
               | copy of the game with the features you wanted
               | 
               | "They" makes it sound like IO Interactive (developers and
               | publisher of Hitman) made that flow chart for people to
               | use, but in reality it's community made by someone from
               | Reddit.
               | 
               | And to be honest, it doesn't seem that complicated, seems
               | like a joke flow chart to make it more complicated than
               | what it is. These editions seems to exists (for the
               | record, I have neither and first time I hear about them):
               | 
               | - Trilogy Premium Add-ons Bundle
               | 
               | - Trilogy Edition
               | 
               | - Standard Edition
               | 
               | - Deluxe Edition
               | 
               | - A DLC
               | 
               | Trilogy obviously is about the full series (1 to 3), and
               | Deluxe edition contains "Deluxe Pack". Which one you
               | want? Ok, want the DLC too? Ok.
               | 
               | It's really not that complicated.
        
             | dec0dedab0de wrote:
             | It's been almost 20 years since I compiled linux, but it
             | was kind of like that. You would choose the features you
             | needed and ignore the rest. Other compiled applications
             | generally have options you can pass to make to enable
             | certain features. Python readline comes to mind.
             | 
             | It would be interesting if we had a similar system for GUI
             | applications. The interface would need to be generated to
             | only show features that are included
        
             | elcomet wrote:
             | That does not work.
             | 
             | People only use 10% of word, but this does not mean that
             | you can partition all users in batch of "10% of features".
             | 
             | If you want to satisfy everyone, you have to make every
             | possible combination of "10% of word features". Which is
             | impossible.
             | 
             | So it's much easier to just combine all features in one
             | product and try to give the user a good interface to find
             | easily the feature they are looking for.
        
               | capableweb wrote:
               | > If you want to satisfy everyone, you have to make every
               | possible combination of "10% of word features". Which is
               | impossible.
               | 
               | I remember Caddy used to have a "kitchen sink" packager
               | or something like that available via their website, where
               | you could pick and chose what features you'd want
               | included.
               | 
               | Playing with the idea (I'm not saying it's a good idea or
               | that I want it), Microsoft could offer something similar,
               | where you tick boxes for what use-cases you want it to
               | fit, and bundle it all together for you with a price per
               | use-case.
               | 
               | I'd absolutely hate it, as I never know what I need in
               | the future, but maybe for some people it'd make sense.
        
             | joatmon-snoo wrote:
             | That's called a competing product :)
        
             | jen20 wrote:
             | Because the cost of production does not scale in a
             | reasonable manner, nor would it be good for users. What
             | happens when you need feature X that is only available in
             | 6th edition, or need to open a document prepared in the 8th
             | edition by someone else?
        
         | dgudkov wrote:
         | Postman raised $433M so far. Feature bloat is inevitable.
        
         | franga2000 wrote:
         | I really like how GitLab allows you to disable the container
         | registry, issue tracker, CI and every other module if you don't
         | use/need it. IMO this should be the way to introduce new
         | features where at all possible.
        
           | meesles wrote:
           | Same with Github, you can disable issues or projects or
           | whatever other features they have at a repo level.
           | 
           | I agree that this and feature flags are a great way to toggle
           | things, but unfortunately for apps like Postman you still
           | feel the load in the download and load times for the app.
           | Usually those fancier features are also more code/data which
           | results in straight increases in memory/disk regardless of
           | whether you use something or not.
           | 
           | In IDEs like Jetbrains and VisualStudio, a lot of features
           | are built like plugins which are a separate download and
           | installation and allow you to disable them. I wonder if apps
           | could take that approach to to keep more people happy.
        
         | robofanatic wrote:
         | if you want to survive in silicon valley you need to show
         | growth in terms of revenue or at-least the number of users on
         | your platform. Thats a slippery slope for products like
         | postman.
        
         | woofcat wrote:
         | Things can be feature complete, and they often are at many
         | businesses.
         | 
         | You need to build a solution to problem x. You do that and then
         | the project is over. Outside of maintenance work it's a stable
         | code base and you the developer move onto a new problem.
         | 
         | Examples of this in my mind are things like uBlock Origin. I'm
         | not getting bombarded with updates on that project. It does the
         | job it sets out to do, and it does it well.
        
           | adhoc_slime wrote:
           | This would be what I ideally think should happen, a product
           | hits a happy place and is finished.
           | 
           | It seems, though, that when working in a business that you'll
           | have many users with many use cases, you'll be competing with
           | other software companies, the temptation is there to add the
           | one feature more to please the user or compete a little
           | better.
           | 
           | this becomes a very specific problem each group of developers
           | / business must answer and maybe the ideal case becomes less
           | realistic to achieve or at least have a general answer for.
        
             | nexuist wrote:
             | This is because you hired developers on payroll and it
             | would be a dumb strategic move to fire everyone once the
             | product is "finished." You have to keep building things in
             | order to justify having people on payroll (otherwise you're
             | paying them to do nothing every day).
             | 
             | If you take VC funding you're in for another world of pain,
             | which is that your company may be perfectly profitable but
             | if it isn't growing at a rate your investors want you'll
             | get kicked out and replaced by someone who will take
             | "product growth" seriously. In other words, Postman needs
             | more paying customers so it needs to become more of a "one
             | size fits all" tool.
             | 
             | One might think that the solution is to simply work on
             | another product after Postman was declared "done," but it
             | seems like nobody seriously attempts this anymore because
             | the SaaS model is so much more profitable.
        
       | a85 wrote:
       | Postman founder here. Thank you HN community for highlighting
       | this feature. We have been seeing gRPC usage exploding especially
       | in microservices driven architectures and we are looking forward
       | to the feedback we get on the feature.
       | 
       | A few other observations on comments that I read through:
       | 
       | 1. Postman leans towards adding UI affordances instead of hiding
       | them. This can irritate experienced developers at times who
       | already know the complexities of HTTP or other protocols but that
       | is really how new developers find their way around. So while it
       | is attractive to have 1000 options hidden behind a command line
       | interface, nobody uses 995 of those features. We are getting
       | better at building experiences for both experienced and new
       | developers. Also, I don't believe reading man pages of git or
       | curl is a better experience.
       | 
       | 2. Performance is a huge area for improvement. More to come in
       | subsequent releases this year.
       | 
       | 3. Our roadmap is community driven:
       | https://github.com/postmanlabs/postman-app-support/issues.
       | Raising more investment helps us do more. We have built a
       | business model around doing the maximum for every developer on
       | the planet while also providing value to companies so we can
       | charge for it and continue development. I find it fair that
       | companies spend hundreds of millions of dollars on salaries can
       | pay some money for improving their productivity by spending in
       | developer tools.
       | 
       | 4. API Development is a huge and growing area and developers are
       | spending more and more time working with APIs rather than their
       | IDEs. API Design, documentation, and testing are areas that a
       | large number of developers tell us they wish they had better
       | tooling for. Most of their time is spend pointlessly in trying to
       | figure out how an API works (in some cases whether an API even
       | exists). We decided to take Postman in those areas even though
       | paradoxically it might lead to "less" Postman usage. (The faster
       | people figure out an API the fewer number of calls they have to
       | send)
       | 
       | 5. Finally, it is good to see here a call for fewer features
       | which we insist internally as well. Unfortunately at some point
       | some part of the community is upset that we are NOT adding
       | features (just see the gRPC thread on our issue tracker!). We
       | don't see issues to remove features as much as we have requests
       | to fulfill. We do remove features consciously but it is a hard
       | problem, so we default to adding them slowly.
        
         | atarian wrote:
         | Thoughts on having native clients for Mac/Windows?
        
           | a85 wrote:
           | Not as of now unfortunately. It is very hard to maintain
           | multiple codebases that basically do the same thing. It is
           | doubly hard for software that is supposed to validate other
           | software because as solving every bug becomes a nightmare. We
           | are focused on bringing a near-native experience on Windows
           | and macOS this year though with better keybindings and UI
           | layer integrations with the OS.
           | 
           | That said, we are looking into iOS and mobile devices right
           | now - a smaller problem set before we look into native
           | clients.
        
       | guptarohit wrote:
       | Postman used to be a go-to tool for testing APIs, now I use
       | anything else (curl, httpie, etc) but postman. Too much is some
       | time too less.
        
       | lambda_dn wrote:
       | Bloatware that is a heave ugly GUI wrapper over cli tools like
       | curl. Learn bash scripting and you will have unlimited power and
       | speed vs this crap.
        
         | nexuist wrote:
         | Learn bash scripting and you will hate yourself every day for
         | having to wade through terrible language decisions made >30yrs
         | ago while having to do everything by yourself because nobody
         | else at your company knows Bash while also having no
         | opportunities for advancement because nobody understands what
         | you do and why it's important.
        
           | lambda_dn wrote:
           | Don't ever for an interview at Google they will laugh you out
           | the room.
        
       | hngpt2 wrote:
        
       | ynouri wrote:
       | My company's product is an API and Postman has been a key tool to
       | test it, collaborate internally on requests and share it to the
       | external world. Our ecosystem is also very API intensive and we
       | also use Postman to discover other companies APIs.
       | 
       | We use all those features:
       | 
       | - HTTP requests
       | 
       | - Mock servers (to test async requests which call back a webhook
       | endpoint)
       | 
       | - Workspaces: private and public
       | 
       | - Monitors, alerts and integrations
       | 
       | I'm excited by the direction Postman has been taking over the
       | years.
       | 
       | Most of commenters in the thread seem to think that Postman is
       | still in the "lightweight cURL replacement GUI" market, like so
       | many of the alternatives mentioned. I think this is wrong -
       | Postman has now has moved to an upper market where requirements
       | are more advanced and complex.
       | 
       | Btw - we use both Postman & cURL
        
         | lysium wrote:
         | How do you do version control with your postman scripts? That
         | was the biggest issue on my last project.
         | 
         | Plus, if the API moves, we had to (manually) find and fix
         | dozens of Postman tests.
         | 
         | I'd appreciate it, if you have some insights that can move my
         | team forward.
        
           | ynouri wrote:
           | We face a similar situation and we sometimes introduce API
           | changes that break the monitors, which then requires to
           | manually fix the testing script. The pain hasn't been big
           | enough yet to make us search for a different solution. Note
           | that we are using Monitors mostly for end to end, user like
           | tests, which represents a small fraction when compared to our
           | unit test suite covering the API (where tests tend to be
           | quite E2E as well).
           | 
           | We do use the one way Postman -> Github integration though.
           | Every time a change is done, it is committed to a dedicated
           | Github repo. We use it as a backup in case anybody messes up
           | the scripts
        
       | ProtocallDev wrote:
       | If anyone is looking for a gRPC client which will automatically
       | resolve imports between protos and also render structured input
       | fields for each message, check out Protocall
       | (https://protocall.dev - disclaimer, I'm the author).
       | 
       | I built it to solve my biggest pain points with existing tooling
       | like BloomRPC and gRPCurl - they were difficult to use for
       | anything more complicated than "Hello, World". I also couldn't
       | find any tools that would let me send protobuf-encoded requests
       | via HTTP/1.1 rather than gRPC - there are a couple options now,
       | but as far as I know none of them support both that and gRPC.
        
       | brian_herman wrote:
       | I can't wait for native support for SOAP. It would be great to
       | have a competitor to SOAPUI.
        
       | serverholic wrote:
       | How about better graphql support? Insomnia is kicking postman's
       | but in that department and my team had to switch.
        
       | PaulAnunda wrote:
       | While the OSX client has become quite bloated, I find
       | https://web.postman.co/ to be a good experience.
        
       | shp0ngle wrote:
       | postman is a software that I simultaneously love and hate
       | 
       | on one hand, it has all these _really great_ features. I would be
       | half as productive without it.
       | 
       | on the other hand, it's so, so annoying with all these updates
       | and cloud features and something or other all the time :(
        
       | throwingawayyou wrote:
        
       | AtNightWeCode wrote:
       | Left Postman a long time ago after all the stupid decisions.
       | Never looked back. gRPC is a nice addition to Postman though. In
       | contrary to what advocates of gRPC thinks, this kind of
       | development is the key thing to bring gRPC to the wide audience.
       | The lack of test tools for non-developers has been an obvious
       | problem with gRPC. Most people should probably still not use gRPC
       | since it is in most cases useless and causes a lot of problems.
        
         | mhoad wrote:
         | As someone who is about to start a big project with gRPC kind
         | of at the middle of it all would you mind elaborating on the
         | other problems you were alluding to? From the outside and some
         | basic testing it seems great
        
       | mythz wrote:
       | We've moved on from Postman for our own APIs and are now
       | including an integrated API Explorer into each new .NET v6+ App
       | https://docs.servicestack.net/api-explorer
       | 
       | As a consequence of our API Design we're also able to reuse our
       | existing Typed APIs in gRPC services:
       | https://docs.servicestack.net/grpc
        
         | dschuessler wrote:
         | This seems to be the golden way of solving the problem Postman
         | is attempting to solve. Have your request collection as code
         | that you can develop with your features and check into your
         | VCS.
         | 
         | I always dreamed of something like this and was more than
         | surprised that it doesn't seem to exist. Does anyone know of a
         | similar solution for node.js?
        
       | pm90 wrote:
       | This (grpc support) might change my mind but I've never found the
       | need for a tool like postman for rest apis. curl + shell history
       | search has worked pretty well. It's so easy to share a snippet;
       | to tweak it so you can make it as verbose as you need. It's easy
       | to run locally or on a remote machine.I guess if Postman has an
       | easy way of sharing that might be great but it's the stability of
       | curl that makes it super appealing.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | cyberpunk wrote:
       | No love for burp[0] here? I really like it.. It's technically a
       | security research tool (and thus, hilariously frustrating to try
       | and get approved by the desktop people at say, a bank) and the UI
       | is a bit old school, but it's never once annoyed me..
       | 
       | 0: https://portswigger.net/burp
        
       | locusofself wrote:
       | I just started using postman, because I'm working with a team
       | that runs some tests with it. I've been unpleasantly surprised
       | with the interface, it feels very slow and bloated on my fast dev
       | machine.
        
       | jonfk wrote:
       | To add another data point, I also moved on from Postman a while
       | ago. Similarly to several commentors here I had found it to have
       | become bloated, slow and buggy imho. In my particular use case, I
       | found the urlencoding when using oauth1 to be pretty buggy. It
       | would sometimes not work on certain headers it generated.
       | 
       | My team ended up moving to Paw but that has been a bit
       | problematic since it only supports osx, so some team members are
       | also using insomnia which doesn't seem to be much better in my
       | opinion.
       | 
       | I recently found httpyac[1]. It's a cli and file based http
       | client similar to the IntelliJ HTTP client, but has plugins,
       | hooks and allows scripting through javascript blocks. It seems to
       | have everything I need but I haven't used it much yet. It also
       | already supports gRPC.
       | 
       | One of the issues I found with http clients I looked into is that
       | they often don't provide enough functionality to hook into the
       | request process. Either before or after a request is executed to
       | add to the headers or parameters of the request or getting the
       | results of the request. Postman did provide some of that but
       | that's one area I wanted more from any client I looked at. I
       | could of course simply wrap curl in a script but at that point, I
       | will be maintaining my own jerryrigged version of an http client
       | for my team.
       | 
       | [1]: https://httpyac.github.io/
        
         | binwiederhier wrote:
         | TIL about the intellij http client. Thank you for mentioning
         | that. It looks awesome.blike Postman, but built-in to the IDE I
         | have open anyway.
         | 
         | https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/http-client-in-product-c...
         | 
         | https://www.jetbrains.com/help/idea/exploring-http-syntax.ht...
        
           | sudhirj wrote:
           | Thanks, I've had Idea Ultimate All Products for years and
           | never heard of this.
        
           | stickfigure wrote:
           | The IntelliJ http client is absolutely brilliant. I love that
           | using it is just editing a text file. Even if I didn't use
           | everything else in IDEA, it would be worth it to fire up the
           | IDE just for http scratch spaces.
        
           | kgeist wrote:
           | Devs at our company predominantly use IntelliJ's builtin HTTP
           | client. I think I've only seen QA engineers use Postman
           | because they don't have developer IDEs installed.
        
             | andyfleming wrote:
             | You can use the .http file syntax and use with both VS
             | Code[1] and IntelliJ's HTTP client.
             | 
             | [1] https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=hum
             | ao.re...
        
             | y4mi wrote:
             | Vscode has an http_client module that's very similar to
             | intellij's as well. Practically the only thing you've gotta
             | change is how requests are saved to variables
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | Yeah I stumbled on this just the other day as well when
           | reading about another IDE from JetBrains (I've been a paying
           | IDEA customer for years). I'm looking forward to checking
           | this out the next time I need to test HTTP endpoints. Postman
           | has been decent for my needs but I always found some basic
           | stuff to me way more difficult than it should be. The
           | scripting in IDEA is something I'm very interested in.
           | Postman had some of that but was more difficult that it
           | should have been IMHO. Also I really like the idea of all my
           | requests being text-based and something I can just commit
           | alongside my code.
        
           | souldeux wrote:
           | This is awesome, I had no idea you could do this. And with
           | gRPC built right in!
        
         | rattray wrote:
         | Hoppscotch (https://hoppscotch.io/) is another one I've heard
         | good things about.
         | 
         | Personally I like the VSCode REST Client best:
         | https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=humao.re...
        
           | the_arun wrote:
           | Do they have desktop client? Hoppscotch seems to be web
           | client. How secure is it to use authtokens for our API
           | endpoints from a website?
        
         | CSSer wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing. Is the code for httpyac anywhere? I can
         | only find the repo for the docs. I'm trying to check it out,
         | but I encountered some errors when trying it add it as a global
         | with yarn because I'm running a node version greater v14. The
         | extension also gave me a deprecation warning about Buffer()
         | usage.
        
           | jonfk wrote:
           | Here is the github repo for httpyac [1]. Not sure why it's
           | not part of the httpyac org that hosts the site.
           | 
           | [1] https://github.com/AnWeber/httpyac
        
             | CSSer wrote:
             | Thanks for that! Sorry, I was in a bit of a hurry earlier.
             | I should've thought to check the commit authors for the
             | site.
        
         | panabee wrote:
         | what other areas of the request process did you want to hook
         | into?
        
         | tpoindex wrote:
         | There certainly are plenty of Postman alternatives out there,
         | one that I've used before is Milkman:
         | https://github.com/warmuuh/milkman
         | 
         | It's built on a plugin architecture, does gRPC, GraphQL, JDBC,
         | Ws, et.al. Other plugins allow sharing of workspaces to various
         | services. Written in Java/JavaFX, brew or chocolatey install.
        
         | teaearlgraycold wrote:
         | > My team ended up moving to Paw but that has been a bit
         | problematic since it only supports osx, so some team members
         | are also using insomnia
         | 
         | One of the first things I learned working professionally is
         | that of it's possible you need to force all engineers to use
         | the same OS. No one will ever agree on one Linux distro. No one
         | wants to develop on Windows (unless you're developing for
         | Windows). So you should but everyone a MacBook. The time saved
         | by reducing duplicated work in getting things working on your
         | OS more than pays for the Apple tax. As for personal OS
         | preference - get over it.
        
           | htgb wrote:
           | With your reasoning, wouldn't it be work as well to dictate a
           | certain Linux distro?
        
           | piaste wrote:
           | I am legitimately unsure whether or not your comment is
           | satire of a certain kind of pointy-haired middle managers. If
           | it is, it's very well done.
        
           | sangnoir wrote:
           | > One of the first things I learned working professionally is
           | that of it's possible you need to force all engineers to use
           | the same OS.
           | 
           | Why stop there? You may also deny engineers admin access so
           | they can't install unauthorized software alternatives to the
           | one true path(tm). The policy is really solidified by not
           | revising the list of blessed software for _many_ years[1],
           | assuring there are no support tickets, and your stack is
           | truly  'stable'. Why let software engineers choose which
           | software they'd like to install?
           | 
           | 1. Eclipse is on the list, always has. Jetbrains requires
           | skip-level approval as support is still experimental. What is
           | VSCode? No one knows the process of adding it to the approved
           | packages.
        
         | mastazi wrote:
         | > some team members are also using insomnia which doesn't seem
         | to be much better in my opinion.
         | 
         | In my experience Insomnia suffers from some of the same bugs
         | that affect Postman[1], but at least they don't do the scummy
         | things that Postman does, for example locking you out of your
         | _personal_ Postman account if your ex employer forgets to pay
         | their business subscription (if anyone at Postman is reading
         | this: that's the reason I left and will never come back).
         | 
         | PS I swear that some time ago I saw that Paw was now available
         | for Linux and Windows as well, but I just went to their website
         | and it still says "exclusively built on macOS", I'm really
         | confused now.
         | 
         | [1] e.g.both Postman and Insomnia break when you import
         | multiple API keys
         | https://swagger.io/docs/specification/authentication/api-key...
        
         | e12e wrote:
         | > One of the issues I found with http clients I looked into is
         | that they often don't provide enough functionality to hook into
         | the request process. Either before or after a request is
         | executed to add to the headers or parameters of the request or
         | getting the results of the request.
         | 
         | I find that httpkit (or just mitmproxy) often gives me decent
         | insight to the actual requests.
         | 
         | I don't know about altering requests "in flight" - I typically
         | re-issue the request via curl or my application server (eg:
         | rails console or debugger breakpoint).
         | 
         | Strongly considering purchasing httpkit - but so far I've just
         | needed it occasionally.
         | 
         | I feel like postman etc is closer to println Debugging, while
         | just intercepting the traffic is more like using a real
         | debugger. But I guess I can see why some like postman etc for
         | exploration - so far i prefer swagger for that (or soapui for
         | xml/soap - preferably running soapui under httpkit for the best
         | of both worlds).
         | 
         | https://httptoolkit.tech/
        
         | redisman wrote:
         | My main complaint is that it's terrible at restoring local
         | state. With sublime text I can just leave whatever I had opened
         | and shut my computer down and it'll be back to where I left it.
         | With Postman the tabs will kind of be there but when you open
         | one it just says it couldn't do something or another and all
         | the input data is gone.
         | 
         | I often have unsaved state because I'm testing a specific case
         | that I don't want to save
        
         | pkulak wrote:
         | I moved on to a system of Bash scripts checked into a company
         | repo. Sounds silly, but it works. It's version controlled
         | easily, you can refer to the scripts from documentation, and
         | it's cross-platform.
         | 
         | Never heard of httpyac. Looks pretty nice. We've been using
         | httpie, which works great, but it's missing nice-to-have stuff
         | like graphql and oauth2, which I've had to build in myself.
        
       | sorahn wrote:
       | I've been using BloomRPC for the past year, but it's definitely
       | got a few rough spots.
       | 
       | Very excited to try this out.
        
         | thcyron wrote:
         | If you're on the Mac, you might want to give Grip
         | (https://gripgrpc.dev) a chance. It's a native client for gRPC.
         | (Disclosure: I'm the author.)
        
           | evanmoran wrote:
           | Looks great! How's the reception so far? Many of our APIs
           | have some streaming, is that something on your roadmap?
        
             | thcyron wrote:
             | It's definitely on the roadmap. Out of curiosity, do you
             | use client/server streaming or bidirectional streaming?
        
               | evanmoran wrote:
               | Server streaming, though I'm not sure how representative
               | we are. We have servers that use streaming for watching
               | for real-time changes. Currently using BloomRPC, if that
               | helps
        
               | ProtocallDev wrote:
               | Grip looks super cool - it's one of the few other clients
               | I've seen that will render structured input fields to
               | make it easier to construct complex messages.
               | 
               | If you have a more urgent need for server-side streaming
               | support, you could also check out Protocall
               | (https://protocall.dev - disclaimer, I'm the author) - it
               | supports all four rpc types (Unary as well as
               | Client/Server/Bidirectional streaming), along with the
               | structured input field rendering and automatic import
               | resolution (via Github repo import).
               | 
               | I wrote it because existing tooling like BloomRPC and
               | gRPCurl were difficult to use for anything more
               | complicated than "Hello, World". I was also looking for
               | tools that would let me send protobuf-encoded requests
               | via HTTP/1.1 rather than gRPC, which didn't seem to exist
               | at the time.
        
           | dewey wrote:
           | Very nice, thanks for sharing. I'll take a look.
        
       | avel wrote:
       | As I have also been frustrated with the direction Postman has
       | taken, I have a great alternative to suggest, if the only thing
       | you want to do is fire requests on demand easily and do not need
       | automated testing.
       | 
       | The VS Code Rest Client extension
       | https://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=humao.re...
       | is great for testing and debugging APIs.
       | 
       | You create a "my_request.http" file that contains something like
       | POST https://example.com/comments HTTP/1.1       content-type:
       | application/json            {         "name": "sample",
       | "time": "Wed, 21 Oct 2015 18:27:50 GMT"       }
       | 
       | First line is the method and url, then headers, then a newline,
       | then the request body.
       | 
       | Hit ctrl+alt+p, the request is sent and you see the response in a
       | side pane. Everything is encoded and decoded properly.
       | 
       | You can organize your tests under multiple files and folders.
       | 
       | I cannot recommend this extension enough, it has made my life so
       | much easier.
        
         | halpert wrote:
         | Doesn't curl do this just as easily?
        
           | IshKebab wrote:
           | Sounds a lot easier than curl tbh. No need to deal with shell
           | scripts and their insane quoting, plus you get the response
           | straight in your editor with syntax highlighting.
        
             | halpert wrote:
             | Maybe it's just me but I've never had those issues. Another
             | benefit of curl is that you have an easily searchable
             | history of every command you've run. So you can easily find
             | old invocations and rerun them.
        
               | avel wrote:
               | This extension also keeps a history of requests.
               | 
               | How complicated are your requests? If I need to test a
               | POST request with a JSON payload longer than a line or
               | two, I'll go and construct my curl command in a text
               | editor anyway, since the shell prompt / readline is not
               | easy to edit. Once you need to start escaping single or
               | double quotes or html payloads in the request, it quickly
               | gets cumbersome. At that point I ditch the shell as a
               | middleman and use the editor to submit the request for
               | me.
        
               | halpert wrote:
               | You can have curl read the request body from a file using
               | --data @filename.txt.
        
               | piaste wrote:
               | Which means you've opened an editor already to edit the
               | request. Might as well send the request right there via
               | an editor command/plugin.
        
         | avel wrote:
         | Someone posted https://hurl.dev/ below. It looks like a
         | command-line alternative to this, with a similar format, and
         | support for assertions.
        
           | jicea wrote:
           | Hi, one of the maintainer of Hurl [1]. It is effectively
           | basically just curl (we're using libcurl under the hood). I
           | would say that we have added the ability to chain request
           | (you could use curl in a shell script), and a bunch of assert
           | (like jsonpath, xpath etc...) on response (which you could
           | arguably do also with shell script).
           | 
           | We also wanted something text based, that could easily be
           | integrated in a CI [2] for instance. We are using Hurl to
           | test our web application (~2M unique visitors/month). Very
           | happy with it currently, but there are really a lot of very
           | good tools in this space (as we can see in these comments).
           | 
           | [1] https://hurl.dev
           | 
           | [2] https://hurl.dev/docs/tutorial/ci-cd-integration.html
        
         | judge2020 wrote:
         | Can it do substitution with some sort of application-based KV
         | store? The main reason I used a rest client like Insomnia is so
         | that I can reference secrets like {{ client_secret }} or {{
         | api_key }} and have a change to the value in the KV store
         | reflect for every request.
        
           | nexuist wrote:
           | Yes, it seems like it:
           | 
           | "We support two types of variables, one is Custom Variables
           | which is defined by user and can be further divided into
           | Environment Variables, File Variables and Request Variables,
           | the other is System Variables which is a predefined set of
           | variables out-of-box."
           | 
           | However, what I can't figure out is if it supports
           | programmatic variable setting. I have an API where I need to
           | retrieve a token from an endpoint before using it for every
           | other endpoint, and I'm using Postman's test scripts to set
           | that token as an environment variable before sending all the
           | other requests so they can all use it. I don't see a way to
           | replicate that with this extension.
        
           | cloudrkt wrote:
           | Yes it supports variables, don't know about KV store, see: ht
           | tps://marketplace.visualstudio.com/items?itemName=humao.re...
        
       | eadmund wrote:
       | Those of y'all frustrated with Postman might be interested in
       | restclient.el: https://github.com/pashky/restclient.el
        
       | thcyron wrote:
       | For people looking for a native macOS client for gRPC, check out
       | Grip (https://gripgrpc.dev). (Disclosure: I'm the author.)
        
         | zanedeg wrote:
         | Correct URL: https://gripgrpc.dev/
        
       | karolsputo wrote:
       | I'v really had it with Postman. I don't get the priorities. Slow
       | and sometimes confusing and auto-saving the configuration is
       | still impossible(!) and I just keep loosing % of work done every
       | single day. [0]
       | 
       | Glad to see lots of comment with alternatives here.
       | 
       | [0] https://github.com/postmanlabs/postman-app-
       | support/issues/81...
        
       | Nihilartikel wrote:
       | I've tried Postman quite a few times in the past - but for my use
       | cases of exercising APIs or doing ad-hoc automation, it's always
       | been much less frustrating to reach for a Jupyter notebook with
       | the 'requests' library.
       | 
       | In the end it also leaves me with a git'able artifact to share
       | with others.
        
       | kedihacker wrote:
       | Is there efficent binary formats like grpc which doesn't require
       | a predefined schema?
        
         | davidjfelix wrote:
         | Before you go down this rabbit hole I'd recommend quickly doing
         | a POC microbenchmark, with a sample payload, against formats
         | with schema to get an idea of why this isn't more popular:
         | 
         | - JSON (without schema) vs Protobuf (with schema)
         | 
         | - Msgpack (without schema, compressed) vs Protobuf (with
         | schema)
         | 
         | - JSON + gzip or brotli encoding vs Protobuf + gzip or brotli
         | 
         | - JSON + gzip or brotli encoding vs Msgpack + gzip or brotli
         | 
         | Compression will erase a lot of the gains even with a schema-
         | defined protocol, but if your goal is low CPU (just
         | serialization) then msgpack is usually good enough.
        
         | rmorey wrote:
         | Something like this? bsonspec.org
        
       | dewey wrote:
       | I've been using https://github.com/fullstorydev/grpcui + Paw so I
       | hope that Paw catches up and also adds gRPC support. Definitely a
       | good decision to have everything in one tool.
        
       | fasteo wrote:
       | Strangely enough, I came here to look for Postman alternatives in
       | the comments.
       | 
       | Not disappointed !
        
       | CommonGuy wrote:
       | Shameless plug, as I'm one of the creators: Kreya is (in our
       | opinion) the most powerful gRPC GUI client out there, but the UI
       | is not as overloaded as the Postman one. REST support and
       | scripting/test integration coming soon as well!
       | 
       | https://kreya.app
        
       | LoveGracePeace wrote:
       | I like is Apache JMeter, more for load testing but it can be used
       | to get all the same information as all the other tools people are
       | mentioning. https://jmeter.apache.org/
        
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