[HN Gopher] Sony is buying Bungie, the developer of Destiny and ...
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Sony is buying Bungie, the developer of Destiny and original
creator of Halo
Author : KoftaBob
Score : 73 points
Date : 2022-01-31 18:19 UTC (4 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.theverge.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.theverge.com)
| disambiguation wrote:
| I find the journey of Bungie studios the past 2 decades a
| fascinating and kind of ironic story.
|
| - ~2001, Bungie develops Halo as a title for the launch of Mac
| gaming.
|
| - MS snipes the IP and make it an Xbox flagship instead.
|
| - Halo evolves as the lead IP of Xbox gaming.
|
| - ~2010, Bungie gains independence from MS, but loses Halo in the
| divorce.
|
| - Bungie teams up with Activision to stay competitive.
|
| - 2022, MS acquires Activison! Bungie hangs in the balance.
|
| - Bungie narrowly escapes MS clutches and teams up with Sony!
|
| Have to wonder if MS thought they would get Bungie as part of the
| package.
|
| Regardless, props to them for really forging their own "Destiny"
| ;)
| gnabgib wrote:
| Almost nothing you've got here is accurate.
|
| - Halo was announced in 1999, originally planned as an RTS for
| Windows + Mac, not for the launch of Mac gaming (not Mac only,
| although prior titles were focused on Mac only)
|
| - MS purchased Bungie in 2000
|
| - While Halo was a flagship, it was also released on Windows +
| Mac in the end (two years late), no IP sniping
|
| - 2007 Bungie splits from MS to a private company (leaving the
| Halo franchise behind), not 2010
|
| - 2010-2019 Bungie _partners_ with Activision, they coop to
| make Destiny - there was no acquisition
|
| - 3 years ago (2019) Bungie ends the partnership, keeps Destiny
| franchise
|
| - There's no way MS considered a company that had a former
| relationship with an acquisition might be thrown in
|
| [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_(franchise) [1]:
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bungie
| steveklabnik wrote:
| > originally planned as an RTS for Windows + Mac, not for the
| launch of Mac gaming
|
| How I read the OP (at least for this bullet) is in line with
| what I remember at the time: Halo was originally a Mac
| exclusive, and us Mac gamers (there were dozens of us,
| dozens!) generally perceived it as being the beginning of a
| golden era, where Mac would be taken as seriously as PC for
| games. I was absolutely heartbroken when it moved to XBox
| exclusive. I still ended up buying one for Halo anyway, just
| like everyone else.
|
| EDIT: that being said, I was a kid at the time, and reading
| up on things, it was announced by Jobs during MacWorld that
| it was going to be Mac + Windows, so I don't know if my
| memory of the situation is about rumors before launch, if I
| misunderstood things because I was 13 at the time, or if I
| simply have mis-remembered because that was over 20 years
| ago, hah.
| tablespoon wrote:
| >>> - ~2001, Bungie develops Halo as a title for the launch
| of Mac gaming.
|
| >> - Halo was announced in 1999, originally planned as an
| RTS for Windows + Mac, not for the launch of Mac gaming
| (not Mac only, although prior titles were focused on Mac
| only)
|
| > How I read the OP (at least for this bullet) is in line
| with what I remember at the time: Halo was originally a Mac
| exclusive, and us Mac gamers (there were dozens of us,
| dozens!) generally perceived it as being the beginning of a
| golden era, where Mac would be taken as seriously as PC for
| games.
|
| That's how I remember perceiving it: finally a Mac game
| that the PC gaming kids would be jealous of. Also, I think
| it had already evolved into a FPS before MS bought it (I
| remember thinking the vehicles would be really novel and
| compelling feature compared to PC FPSes).
|
| Gaming with a Mac was a backwater in the 90s. All the
| popular games would get a belated Mac port, if that (e.g.
| by the time PC gamers moved on to Command and Conquer: Red
| Alert, I just was able to play the original Command and
| Conquer, and Red Alert was never ported at all). Bungie's
| games were Mac-only and good, but (for instance) by the
| time I played the Marathon series, the tech was dated.
|
| Edit: corrected mistake, I was thinking about Command and
| Conquer/Red Alert, not Starcraft/Brood war.
| AntiRush wrote:
| I think you are misremembering the Brood War release. It
| was available for Mac 6 months after the PC release, and
| the "battle chest",which contained both StarCraft and
| brood war, was mac/windows hybrid. The battle chest was
| by far the biggest seller, too.
| tablespoon wrote:
| > I think you are misremembering the Brood War release.
| It was available for Mac 6 months after the PC release,
| and the "battle chest",which contained both StarCraft and
| brood war, was mac/windows hybrid. The battle chest was
| by far the biggest seller, too.
|
| Yeah, I think you're right. I was actually thinking about
| Command and Conquer: Red Alert. According to this (https:
| //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Command_%26_Conquer_me...
| ), the original was released for PC in 1995. Red Alert
| and the the Mac port of the original were released in
| 1996. Red Alert was never ported.
| AdmiralAsshat wrote:
| You'd certainly be forgiven for thinking it was a Mac
| exclusive. You wouldn't think Steve Jobs would personally
| introduce a game that was multi-platform:
|
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eZ2yvWl9nQ
| steveklabnik wrote:
| _especially_ given how much of a Steve Jobs fanboy I was
| back in those days...
| disambiguation wrote:
| sure, in case it wasn't clear "~" is my shorthand for
| "approximate". I was going off vague memory and broad
| strokes. Not sure 2007 vs 2010 makes a big difference in
| terms of timeline, but I appreciate you filling in the
| details!
|
| > - 2010-2019 Bungie partners with Activision, they coop to
| make Destiny - there was no acquisition
|
| I said "teamed up", not acquired..?
|
| Another commenter pointed out that Bungie left Acti.. true, I
| wasn't aware of that.
|
| > There's no way MS considered a company that had a former
| relationship with an acquisition might be thrown in
|
| Often acquisitions are also about "buying the network", not
| just the IP.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| > Have to wonder if MS thought they would get Bungie as part of
| the package.
|
| So much of the drama in the Activision publishing contract on
| Destiny was that Activision intentionally got none of the IP.
| Bungie blamed the brutal expansion pack cadence and expansion
| pack prices on Activision covering their bases because they
| _didn 't_ have a stake as publisher in the IP. Which is
| probably true, but one of those "it takes two to tango" type
| things.
|
| Bungie had a real nasty public break up with Activision just
| before Destiny 2 went free-to-play (and supposedly it is part
| of how they were able to get it free-to-play).
|
| I'm sure Microsoft knew buying Activision would not give them
| any of Destiny or Bungie.
| Zandikar wrote:
| > I'm sure Microsoft knew buying Activision would not give
| them any of Destiny or Bungie.
|
| Microsoft's first clue that they wouldn't be getting Bungie
| is that Activision didn't own Bungie (it was a partnership
| over the Destiny IP), and that that partnership ended in
| 2019, a little over 3 years ago.
| Jaepa wrote:
| They were also originally a Classic Mac OS game shop. Marathon
| series & Minotaur: The Labyrinths of Crete where originally
| release on Mac. Myth & Oni were released for both Mac &
| Windows.
| Jcowell wrote:
| Your timeline is off Bungie left Activision years before and
| became independent leading up to now.
| disambiguation wrote:
| huh TIL.. slightly less ironic then.
| gwern wrote:
| It's kinda sad seeing them bought up again. I was reading
| https://www.vice.com/en/article/xwqjg3/the-complete-untold-h...
| yesterday (great but long read) and they really desperately
| wanted out of MS, and - victims of their own success with Halo
| 1 - made a lot of Halo games they didn't want to as the price
| of freedom. And now here they are again in a big conglomerate.
| rubyist5eva wrote:
| This is such a colossally bad purchase, it's laughable in the
| wake of Microsoft buying Activision.
| [deleted]
| supermatt wrote:
| Meh, all these exclusives sound like they are just going to shoot
| each other in the foot. Gamers will end up with both consoles
| (sold as loss leaders) and spread their investment in games
| between the two. Lose/lose.
| steveklabnik wrote:
| They've explicitly stated that none of their games are going to
| be exclusive. FAQ here:
| https://www.bungie.net/en/Explore/Detail/News/50989
|
| (I play a _lot_ of Destiny)
| supermatt wrote:
| They have said that "Destiny 2" wont be exclusive. Nothing
| else.
|
| Edit: seems im wrong, apologies.
| ubercore wrote:
| > Q. Bungie has future games in development, will they now
| become PlayStation exclusives?
|
| > No. We want the worlds we are creating to extend to
| anywhere people play games. We will continue to be self-
| published, creatively independent, and we will continue to
| drive one, unified Bungie community.
| [deleted]
| thg wrote:
| The 2nd last FAQ explicitly states something different:
|
| --
|
| Q. Bungie has future games in development, will they now
| become PlayStation exclusives?
|
| No. We want the worlds we are creating to extend to
| anywhere people play games. We will continue to be self-
| published, creatively independent, and we will continue to
| drive one, unified Bungie community.
|
| --
|
| Although I certainly won't take a wager on that still being
| true in 3-4 years.
| zerocrates wrote:
| Sony's more on board with having PC releases so I'd
| expect that to continue for sure as Bungie has had a
| playerbase there for a while.
|
| But whether further-future releases look more like their
| "cross-platform" nature is just Playstation and PC, or
| there's Playstation timed exclusivity or exclusive
| features... I mean you'd have to think it's pretty
| likely.
| arka2147483647 wrote:
| You could argue this means only what is currently in
| development. Which kind of makes sense, if you already
| have all the target platforms in the works, might be
| easiest to ship them all in the intended platforms. I
| suppose.
| JohnTHaller wrote:
| My Xbox friends that still play Destiny 2 are expecting the
| experience to worsen with the acquisition. Sony has paid
| Bungie/Activision a chunk of change/in kind advertising to make
| chunks of Destiny Playstation exclusive for years to the
| detriment of the Xbox experience (certain maps and certain
| weapons that would improve progress missing for a 12+ month
| window, etc). I'm not sure what the state of it is right now as I
| stopped playing once they adjusted Destiny 2 to be even more of a
| grindfest requiring far too many hours to progress. Plus, playing
| the same exact strikes over and over just got boring.
| steveklabnik wrote:
| Those days are long gone; there's nothing platform exclusive in
| the game currently.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| Sounds like Bungie "lost". My sympathies to them. They stated
| after exiting Microsoft they wanted to remain independent from
| thenceforth (and part of why Destiny was named that, they saw it
| as putting their own Destiny in their own hands, it sounded
| like). They went through so much horror with Activision precisely
| because they wanted to remain independent, but it sounds like the
| fight with Activision left them more wounded than they wanted to
| admit if they are selling to Sony.
|
| (I don't think Bungie entirely spiritually survived the split
| with 343 anyway, given the rumors of all the behind-the-scenes
| drama in the making of Destiny, but I was rooting for their
| continued independence as a fascinating story, even as I stopped
| playing Destiny 1/2 because I hated their economy.)
| Tsarbomb wrote:
| > They went through so much horror with Activision
|
| That is a falsehood that a lot management at Bungie would love
| to keep perpetuating. A lot of the terrible and toxic
| management, the disrespecting of the community, and terrible
| game design decisions (especially around micro-transactions)
| all came from the senior management at Bungie.
| WorldMaker wrote:
| I don't think we'll ever know exact details for certain in
| the public record, but it definitely feels like one of those
| "it takes two to tango" situations where both sides were
| toxic and inflamed the worst in each other. I do think a lot
| of what Bungie blames on Activision were decisions they would
| have made anyway but liked having someone to blame. (That's
| still a type of horror, gaslighting yourself that your
| publisher is the enemy rather than your partner.)
| dogma1138 wrote:
| Wasn't there a direct quote form Bungie senior leadership that
| they went with Activision because they came to them and pitched
| them how they can monetize multiplayer?
| Kapura wrote:
| To me, this seems like Sony investing in a studio (and property)
| that has game-as-a-service title chops. MMOs like World of
| Warcraft or Final Fantasy 14 create a steady, predictable stream
| of income. While Destiny 2 doesn't have a monthly subscription,
| its regular content updates do create money on an annual basis,
| with aesthetic microtransactions to boot.
|
| Contrast this to first-party Sony studios like Naughty Dog, which
| will take a minimum of several years to develop a game like The
| Last of Us or the next Uncharted. Even if you extend the
| moneymaking tail by trickling out DLC for a year or two after
| release, you're basically betting on a hit that will produce
| enough money at one time to justify paying several hundred
| salaries for several years after that. It's not hard to see why
| Sony would want a regular moneymaker in the difficult-to-break-
| into GAAS space.
|
| And for Bungie, they've openly confirmed that they've had
| incubation projects for several years. Getting a gigantic
| publisher like Sony will give them the financial freedom they
| need to start building out whatever the next game is. This was
| basically the logic with the Activision partnership: they needed
| deep pockets upfront to build out the tech that powers Destiny.
| That done, they were able to return to their complete
| independence. Will it happen again?
| matt_s wrote:
| Destiny 2 has a seasonal pass model at $10 USD per 3 month
| season. Many of the ways to advance in the game are tied to the
| season pass so you could say it has a $3/mo subscription. That
| also doesn't take into account any cosmetics players purchase
| so there is a fair amount of regularly recurring revenue.
| AdamTReineke wrote:
| More discussion (w/3x upvotes):
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30151580
| bastardoperator wrote:
| I don't know anyone that is in love with the destiny franchise.
| It gets boring pretty quickly and plenty of other games do PVP
| better. If destiny went PS exclusive I think it would only hurt
| the franchise/studio.
| rpmisms wrote:
| Hopefully Sony is smart enough to leave them alone. The
| independent Era of Bungie has led to one of the best ongoing
| stories I've ever seen in a game (Destiny 2). Don't kill the
| golden goose, Sony.
| [deleted]
| post_break wrote:
| Reminds me of that quote about movies just being called Disneys,
| because Disney bought all the movie studios. The consolidation of
| everything seems like a loss for the gamer. You can bet the
| exclusives start to become much more serious in the future.
| uejfiweun wrote:
| Seems like PC gamers are the real winners here though, as both
| Sony and Microsoft have been releasing very nice ports of AAA
| games such as Halo and God of War. Definitely a fan of this
| change, although I'm wary of these companies abusing their
| monopoly powers in the future.
| shadowgovt wrote:
| The takeaway I get from this is it's really hard to be a
| financially-stable independent studio.
| nightski wrote:
| I see it differently. I think we are seeing that console makers
| are realizing all the money is in games and not hardware, so
| they are buying up studios left & right. They also want to
| offer subscriptions to games which is easier when you own the
| games themselves.
| ogazitt wrote:
| Console sales have always been a break-even business over the
| lifetime of the generation. You lose LOTS of money up front,
| and eventually (in year 6 or 7) you may turn an overall
| profit on console sales.
|
| Hardware accessories (e.g. controllers) are a bit better.
|
| Assuming you can produce hits, first-party IP has always been
| the most profitable part of the value chain. But having 90%
| of your ecosystem come from 1P (like Nintendo) limits the
| size of the ecosystem.
|
| Xbox traditionally had 30-40% of the overall content revenue
| come from 1P IP, and 60-70% were from 3P. Sony perhaps a bit
| more than that. Both were ecosystem plays.
|
| It seems like both ecosystems are recognizing that they need
| exclusives to sustain their franchises.
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