[HN Gopher] Boring Technology Checklist
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Boring Technology Checklist
        
       Author : macdonst
       Score  : 151 points
       Date   : 2022-01-31 15:36 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (blog.begin.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (blog.begin.com)
        
       | Ishmaeli wrote:
       | I feel like I've spent the last 10 years seeing "boring" in
       | headlines and thinking mundane, when actually it was referring to
       | tunneling. Now I'm finally conditioned to think tunneling first,
       | and this.
       | 
       | It's like BLM, whether I think Black Lives Matter or Bureau of
       | Land Management, the reference is bound to be about the other
       | one, sure as the the USB is always backwards.
        
       | lostcolony wrote:
       | This is fine insofar as it provides a checklist to evaluate if
       | technology is boring, but it rests entirely on "Choose Boring
       | Technologies", which I've never found particularly compelling.
       | 
       | It's less "Choose Boring Technologies" and more "Don't introduce
       | something new just because it's new". Have a compelling reason.
       | And both this article, and the original Choose Boring
       | Technologies, kinda miss that.
       | 
       | I'd be much more interested in guidelines of when to choose
       | something new; a prior job prior to my joining chose Erlang for a
       | mid-sized project, despite no one on the team knowing it, and it
       | was a success. So we chose it (after I joined) for a large
       | project, and it was, to quote the executive of a business unit it
       | was for "the biggest success to come out of (our department)".
       | 
       | Both of these projects -could- have been done in one of the
       | existing house languages...they would not have been done as
       | quickly, resulted in nearly as good an outcome (predominantly
       | amongst resiliency, which is why we chose Erlang), nor have given
       | the team as much enjoyment (itself being part of the reason for
       | the results, as a knock on effect).
        
       | allochthon wrote:
       | The discussion around "boring" technology is an important one.
       | Where to draw the line will be pretty context-dependent. An
       | aerospace firm will put the line here, and a tech startup
       | focusing on a low-risk use case will draw the line somewhere
       | else. And the developers and other stakeholders will be relevant
       | as well. In this context, the checklist at the bottom is
       | interesting food for thought. But I would be wary of relying on
       | it for choices around what technology to adopt, because such
       | decisions will always need to be considered in context. In that
       | sense, the checklist feels well-meaning and even insightful, but
       | a little too concrete.
        
         | julosflb wrote:
         | In aerospace engineering you would usually select technologies
         | based on a concept of technology readiness level, which
         | provides a framework for evaluating new technology and make
         | sure you are in control of their maturity.
         | 
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technology_readiness_level
        
       | goodpoint wrote:
       | Familiarity supports popular language runtimes, tools, and
       | idiomatic APIs experience deploying this technology to production
       | today
       | 
       | Stability follows a predictable release and versioning scheme
       | (note: NOT frequent is fine and in some ways more desirable.
       | security patches are always welcome of course.) biases for non-
       | breaking changes easing long term maintainability publishes a
       | regular changelog open-source and/or open-source backed service
       | ideally public governance: roadmap, issue tracking, and decision
       | making all visible
       | 
       | Reliability can be trusted to work as expected; ideally does one
       | thing well social proofs exist (careful!)
       | 
       | Well understood limits, and trade-offs accessible docs objective
       | benchmarks and/or published service quotas friendly community
       | (Code of Conduct, blogs, chats, podcasts, etc.)
        
       | friedman23 wrote:
       | A lot of this boring technology talk just seems like an excuse
       | not to learn something new.
       | 
       | "X works fine why are we using Y?" "See Y doesn't cover every X
       | use case perfectly, we should have stuck with X!"
       | 
       | The arguments are predictable at this point. We'd still be using
       | Jquery for developing frontends if this mindset was pervasive.
        
       | aeternum wrote:
       | If the ability to keep the site up is any indication, it looks
       | like boring tech does not work as well in practice as the theory
       | would have you believe.
        
       | lmeyerov wrote:
       | Missing two of the biggest:
       | 
       | - hireability: large community of developers to hire from today +
       | years from now
       | 
       | - low risk of abandonment: long history of development, stable
       | funding, and ideally many users+contributors from diff orgs using
       | in commercial contexts
       | 
       | Not easy for startups and new frameworks to achieve 'boring'
       | status!
        
         | miiiiiike wrote:
         | This is where Angular dies. Great framework. There's almost no
         | amount of money that you can pay someone to learn Angular in
         | 2022.
        
           | hughrr wrote:
           | What is everyone gyrating around at the moment? I haven't
           | touched front end for about a decade. It was jquery back
           | then.
        
             | lenzm wrote:
             | I'd say React has reached boring by JS standards.
        
               | macdonst wrote:
               | Except for React introduces major changes with every new
               | version causing thrash.
        
             | kbrannigan wrote:
             | I started a project with react! Stripped everything and
             | went back to server side generated pages with sprinkles of
             | jquery!
        
         | wyager wrote:
         | > large community of developers to hire from today + years from
         | now
         | 
         | I think this is a red herring. The thing that actually matters
         | for most companies is marginal hireability. By the time you're
         | big enough to worry about absolute hireability (because your
         | hiring demands exceed the liquidity at the margins) you can
         | create a hiring pool out of thin air (e.g. if google invents a
         | new language and shills it a bit, tens of thousands of college
         | students will learn it for free).
         | 
         | If you're a small company and you're picking between Java and
         | Elixir (or whatever) your concern should be "how hard will it
         | be to hire 3 developers at a given quality level?", not "are
         | there 1 million developers available?"
        
       | k__ wrote:
       | I wonder, how many engineers will switch their jobs because they
       | have to work with boring tech?
       | 
       | Sure, the stack you're using isn't everything and other parts of
       | a project can be just as exciting. But I often heard engineers
       | complain about their company being stuck in the past and they
       | wish to use all the cool tech they see in the news.
        
         | kingcharles wrote:
         | I've worked at companies where many of the devs were not
         | remotely excited about any new technologies and just wanted to
         | do their 9-5 and get home to the wife and kids, which is a
         | totally valid career choice. These guys just wanted to stick
         | with what worked and what they knew. They LOVED boring.
        
         | bob1029 wrote:
         | > But I often heard engineers complain about their company
         | being stuck in the past and they wish to use all the cool tech
         | they see in the news.
         | 
         | This is becoming my go-to filter for determining if I would
         | want to hire someone in the first place. Hypothetically, if
         | someone told me they left their prior job because they wanted
         | to "use cool tech" on an interview, I would be providing a
         | strong "No" input to the process.
         | 
         | The honest reality is that a lot of people are doing a job they
         | probably should not be doing. If you want to be really good at
         | writing software for other people, you should enjoy delivering
         | _experiences_ to your actual users. I find many developers can
         | 't even enumerate who their end users are these days.
        
           | k__ wrote:
           | Sure, that's the best case scenario.
           | 
           | In my experience companies, especially the small ones,
           | struggle to hire engineers. So, they try to spice their
           | positions up with some hot new tech.
        
       | TacticalCoder wrote:
       | Weirdly enough I do believe Clojure ticks the boxes from that
       | checklist.
       | 
       | It's familiar in that it both "supports popular language
       | runtimes" (runs on top of the JVM or transpiles to JavaScript)
       | and it's a Lisp dialect (or close enough) and Lisps have been
       | around since a _very_ long time.
       | 
       | It's incredibly stable: so stable some libraries commonly used
       | haven't been updated in _years_. There 's also very little code
       | churn inside Clojure's own codebase.
       | 
       | It is very reliable.
       | 
       | It's limits and trade offs are well known.
       | 
       | Somehow I though my language of choice was "edgy" but I realize
       | it may actually be "boring": a dialect from a very old family of
       | language running on top of a boring tech (the JVM).
        
         | darksaints wrote:
         | I'd agree that clojure fits the boring tag, and that's a good
         | thing. Unfortunately it's also dying. While many old libraries
         | and tools are stable and functional, nothing new is really
         | being created with it. The same couldn't be said for boring
         | technologies like Java or Python.
        
           | gregors wrote:
           | Being acquired by a bank isn't exactly a bad thing for the
           | language from a longevity perspective.
           | 
           | https://www.cognitect.com/blog/2020/07/23/Cognitect-Joins-
           | Nu...
        
           | twobitshifter wrote:
           | What about clojurescript?
        
             | bachmeier wrote:
             | My rule of thumb when someone says "Language X is dying" is
             | to move on. I don't even use Clojure, and I can immediately
             | come up with https://github.com/logseq/logseq and
             | https://github.com/athensresearch/athens as funded
             | companies making popular new products with Clojure.
        
         | lacker wrote:
         | I like Clojure, but it's really the exact opposite of the sort
         | of "boring technology" that this post advocates. If MongoDB
         | costs you 2 innovation tokens, Clojure costs at least 2,
         | perhaps all 3.
         | 
         | The cost of innovation is not so much in the core of Clojure
         | itself, but that once your company gets larger, you will want
         | to integrate with more and more things that have not put effort
         | into Clojure compatibility, just because the language is not
         | very popular. Also hiring.
        
           | jayceedenton wrote:
           | What is this 'Clojure compatibility' of which you speak?
           | Seriously though, Clojure runs on the JVM so the entire Java
           | ecosystem is available. There are ways to run an external
           | process too of course. I can't really think of an example
           | where 'Clojure compatibility' is something we would require
           | people to have thought about.
        
             | lacker wrote:
             | A simple example is, let's say you're making a small web
             | service. Are you going to use a Clojure framework or a Java
             | framework via JVM compatibility? If you pick a Clojure
             | framework, then all the subsequent choices you have to
             | make, you'll run into the "non boring tech" issues. Has
             | someone already built a GraphQL plugin, a plugin that
             | integrates with the Twitter preview API, etc etc it depends
             | on your project but you'll run into things. If you pick a
             | Java framework, you'll end up running into a bunch of cases
             | where you can't use the "normal solution" for that
             | framework because you're running Clojure.
             | 
             | It's not the end of the world or anything, and for a
             | smaller project Clojure might be the perfect solution. But
             | if it's something that you're trying to scale into a
             | startup with dozens of engineers then you're probably going
             | to pay a higher incompatibility cost for using Clojure.
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | Scarbutt wrote:
           | _you will want to integrate with more and more things that
           | have not put effort into Clojure compatibility_
           | 
           | The answer to that is to just use java interop.
        
             | throwaway1777 wrote:
             | Or even to have some clojure services and some Java ones.
             | And then work toward more clojure over time if there's good
             | reason to do it.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | How about hiring though? If you have a vacancy for a Clojure
         | developer, how many applicants could you expect?
         | 
         | When it comes to programming languages, I'd stick to the top 10
         | languages if your company isn't hip enough to attract a certain
         | kind of developer on its own.
        
           | radiator wrote:
           | It almost sounds like you don't believe that developers can
           | learn new languages.
        
             | bsza wrote:
             | If it's a language I'm not familiar with, I won't consider
             | applying, so that's where the story ends in my case. I
             | could be an outlier though...?
        
             | Scarbutt wrote:
             | The majority of companies want you to be productive on day
             | one.
        
               | exhaze wrote:
               | That's pretty hyperbolic and also seemingly irrelevant.
               | There are enough companies that don't have this
               | expectation and give new engineers the time and space to
               | become familiar with the company before setting any
               | concrete performance goals.
        
             | discreteevent wrote:
             | Of course they can learn new languages. But it takes some
             | time to become really proficient in a language. The
             | question is how many languages do you want to support in
             | your company? Because it's not realistic to think that
             | developers will not need to move from project to project.
             | And in fact when things get busy they may need to swap from
             | one project to another and back on the same day. It's not
             | ideal but that's life. The inefficiency of swapping between
             | languages will often outweigh the efficiency of the new
             | language.
             | 
             | Google were notoriously strict for limiting languages at
             | the start and I think it was very frustrating for some of
             | the developers they hired. If I had a boring technology
             | checklist then "Language we already use" would be top of
             | the list.
        
             | whakim wrote:
             | Of course people can learn new languages, but:
             | 
             | - A nonzero number of excellent potential applicants aren't
             | going to work for your company because they don't want to
             | invest their own development into learning the Clojure
             | ecosystem deeply. (This might be somewhat balanced out by
             | folks who are stoked to learn Clojure.)
             | 
             | - Every non-Clojure person you hire will require
             | significantly more ramp-up time. This can be a real problem
             | for small companies where you lose quite a lot of expertise
             | every time a senior developer leaves.
             | 
             | - These problems compound for every "innovative" technology
             | you add.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | Learning a language is a piece of cake, learning the
             | ecosystem is another matter.
        
           | dchest wrote:
           | Hiring more developers is overrated.
        
           | gregors wrote:
           | From what I heard, Nubank hired a good deal of Elixir
           | developers when they aqui-hired Plataformatec. I suspect
           | having functional programming experience matters more than
           | having concrete Clojure knowledge. It definitely didn't seem
           | to be a problem in this case anyway.
           | 
           | https://medium.com/building-nubank/tech-perspectives-
           | behind-...
        
           | ithrow wrote:
           | Hiring wasn't in the articles' checklist though ;)
           | 
           | Valid point anyway
        
           | olieidel wrote:
           | When hiring / recruiting Clojure devs, there are quite a few
           | second-order effects which are quite unintuitive.
           | 
           | Clojure devs are much more senior - they've typically been
           | burnt by at least one tech stack, often more (Java, JS +
           | React, Fortran, Cobol, punching tape, etc.). Clojure devs
           | also tend to be really passionate about, you guessed it,
           | Clojure, which commonly turns out to be a good thing. People
           | passionate about that level of language-detail tend to be
           | meticulous about many other useful things, like choosing the
           | right tools and building simple and maintainable
           | applications.
           | 
           | There's sometimes a slight tendency towards over-engineering
           | which is understandable. People who dive deep into other
           | programming languages and go through the pain of learning
           | lisp sometimes tend to lose focus of the actual (business)
           | problem to solve. But I wouldn't say this tendency is
           | significantly higher than elsewhere. Still, sometimes, the
           | pragmatism of a rails dev just churning out code is missed.
           | 
           | Also, because Clojure jobs are scarce and there's a high
           | number of "secret Clojurists" (people who code Clojure at
           | night and secretly dream of using it at their day job), you
           | actually get a much higher number of applicants than you
           | would have estimated based on the most recent Stackoverflow
           | survey.
           | 
           | Also, you get a real shot at hiring rockstar devs. This is
           | huge and cannot be overstated. If you're hiring for a
           | standard JS / Python stack, you're suddenly competing with
           | FAANG companies and their salaries. If you're hiring for
           | Clojure, you're hardly competing with anyone. And you get a
           | good pre-selection of senior devs. Like, those which were
           | burned at a FAANG company, who finally came to their senses
           | and now want to code Clojure. What's not to like?
           | 
           | I guess a drawback would be that you couldn't instantly hire
           | a local team of 100+ devs, even if you take secret Clojurists
           | into account. But who would want to work at a place which
           | hires 100+ devs in a short amount of time?
           | 
           | (I interviewed around 200 people, many of them for Clojure
           | roles, sometimes even comparing Python and Clojure applicants
           | for the same role)
           | 
           | Relevant talk: https://youtu.be/kNiGu_VaoTg?t=1566
        
             | dwohnitmok wrote:
             | All the points you're saying here are the usual arguments
             | for choosing non-boring technology (I think I've seen this
             | argument essentially verbatim for CL, Haskell, Clojure,
             | Elixir, etc.), which is fine in isolation, but doesn't
             | really fit in a thread about Clojure as boring technology.
        
           | exdsq wrote:
           | On the other hand you attract a certain kind of developer
           | with those roles than generic languages.
        
             | Steltek wrote:
             | If you're using your tech stack as a hiring filter, it
             | doesn't count as "Boring Technology".
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | exdsq wrote:
               | No I appreciate that - my point is you can get better
               | engineers that you might deserve at your startup by using
               | a language like Clojure to entice them. I know people who
               | work for a good discount if it's on a tech stack they
               | enjoy and is fairly rare to find.
        
         | pjmlp wrote:
         | Nope, boring technology is using the platform system language,
         | Java.
         | 
         | Nothing extra to install, everything works out of the box, no
         | need for FFI or incomprehensible stack traces.
        
           | forgetfulness wrote:
           | Clojure doesn't need FFI, neither does it need anything to
           | run but the JVM, you package your application in a jar and
           | run it the same as always, and you only write Java using your
           | system editor and the JDK in introductory compsci courses.
        
             | pjmlp wrote:
             | It surely does, calls go both ways, and Closure doesn't
             | understand everything introduced on the JVM since Java 8.
             | 
             | Poor students, at least Blue/J.
             | 
             | By the way, I already used Clojure in projects.
             | 
             | Usually I only critic stuff I actually know.
        
         | lmilcin wrote:
         | The problem with Clojure is that it is too good. It gives you,
         | the programmer, too much freedom.
         | 
         | Most people do not have problems that require so much freedom.
         | 
         | Most people do not know what to do with that freedom -- they
         | don't have enough experience actually organising their
         | applications.
         | 
         | Most people benefit from using a language/framework that
         | requires them or at least rewards them to put things in a
         | certain way. For example Java Spring rewards people for
         | following a certain application design -- you can break rules
         | but then you are on your own and Stack[Exchange|Overflow]
         | examples can no longer be copied/pasted directly into your
         | codebase.
         | 
         | As much as I love Clojure, every single corporate Clojure
         | project I have seen in the past was an utterly unmaintainable
         | mess.
         | 
         | I have never actually participated in a Clojure project (I use
         | Clojure mostly for rapid prototyping/PoC-ing), but what I
         | figured is that Clojure requires minimum maturity from the
         | developer and especially drive to be constantly simplifying
         | things -- which is unfortunately very high bar. Most developers
         | I work with / interviewed do not really understand what it
         | means to refactor and simplify. Most people are only focused on
         | the part of the work when they get something to produce
         | expected values and everything else just isn't high priority in
         | a corporate environment.
        
           | [deleted]
        
       | fouadf wrote:
       | Node.js seems boring at this point
        
         | midrus wrote:
         | Not the 350+ libraries you need to pick to build anything
         | useful with it.
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | Yet NPM is a little to exciting.
        
       | mrkentutbabi wrote:
       | What about between 2 boring technologies?
       | 
       | For example I'm debating between Eleventy and Hugo (because I
       | know both JS and Go, but not Ruby so I will skip Jekyll)
        
         | chrisweekly wrote:
         | Before you spend much time on a pure (thus limited) SSG, I
         | recommend taking a close look at https://Remix.run. Remix
         | supports a superset of Eleventy or Hugo (or Jekyll or even
         | NextJS export). It's too new to be considered "boring", but it
         | leverages OG web standards and defaults to web platform-native
         | foundations. Given its provenance and the authors' bona fides,
         | I'm betting heavy it sticks around for the long haul. I'm
         | unaffiliated w the project, but I've been doing web-related
         | things for a living since 1998, and for me Remix is a breath of
         | fresh air and the successor to NextJS as my framework of
         | choice.
        
           | Zababa wrote:
           | > Given its provenance and the authors' bona fides, I'm
           | betting heavy it sticks around for the long haul.
           | 
           | That's what people said for Redwood.js. One year later and
           | it's mostly forgotten.
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | Boring is on a scale, and you need a reference to assess the
         | level of boringness. Eleventy, Hugo and Jekyll are all a little
         | to non-boring compared to ssg6 or just throwing txt files in
         | www-root.
        
         | egypturnash wrote:
         | The truly boring choice for your blog is PHP and/or Perl.
         | Wordpress, Movable Type, or possibly Textpattern if you are
         | feeling a little edgy.
        
         | Cthulhu_ wrote:
         | The fact you worry about what language they're written in -
         | while you shouldn't need to ever edit any of their code -
         | already implies they're not boring and you're overthinking the
         | decision already.
         | 
         | Pick the one that gets you up and running the fastest, ideally
         | one that doesn't rely on you installing additional runtimes.
        
           | 9dev wrote:
           | In principle you're absolutely right, but Hugo actually comes
           | with lots of strings attached due to their choice of Go, like
           | having to use Go templates for example - which can be weird
           | if you don't have a Go background. The more elaborate
           | constructs you're trying to build, the more you need to
           | research how the Hugo Go runtime works to sort out quirks.
        
         | erikpukinskis wrote:
         | Flip a coin, try the first one out, and if anything pops up in
         | a few days that makes you think the other might be more
         | suitable, evaluate the other one.
         | 
         | I recently started experimenting with Snowpack for JS build. I
         | realized it doesn't do sourcemaps very will so I grabbed
         | Parcel. That worked great but doesn't have a testing story and
         | Vite has a couple options there. Vite has been good.
         | 
         | It was work to evaluate each of those and switch between them.
         | But not that much work really since I hadn't committed a huge
         | codebase yet. But it was worth it because now I know why you
         | might choose one over the other.
         | 
         | Granted the "boring" choice would be Webpack.
        
           | ithrow wrote:
           | This a good advice for dealing with 'decision paralysis'
           | which can make you waste more time than just trying out the
           | options.
        
           | mrkentutbabi wrote:
           | Good advice thanks
        
           | foobiekr wrote:
           | I do this. But 1d20 / options. Crit fail means ignore for a
           | week otherwise divide up the space evenly and extra slots
           | mean re-roll. Having the option to punt is useful.
        
         | dsr_ wrote:
         | Compare them in your particular scenario. Only you know what is
         | important to you. If choosing for a company, ask the people who
         | will have to work with it.
         | 
         | Maybe one has more responsive developers, or a more helpful
         | community.
        
       | wrnr wrote:
       | I don't consider it my job to do the same thing in the same way
       | to accomplish the same thing.
        
       | lukemunn wrote:
       | Interesting to see a few posts on HN recently advocating for
       | 'dumb' or 'boring' tech as I'd been writing an article on 'dumb
       | technology' along the same lines. Comments welcome.
       | https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358248465_Dumb_Tech...
        
       | ape4 wrote:
       | I hate to say it, but in many ways Windows checks many boxes -
       | its backwards compatible for decades. Programs from 30 years ago
       | still work fine.
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | Hate to agree, but yes. A C++ application using the APIs
         | provided by Windows is pretty much unbreakable by time.
        
         | mixmastamyk wrote:
         | The core is fine, it's being at the whim of MS's hostile
         | marketing and sales departments that are decidedly not boring.
        
       | jalanco wrote:
       | One day, if we wait long enough, The Boring Company technology
       | will be boring technology.
        
       | heipei wrote:
       | Personally I believe that even more important than picking boring
       | technology is limiting the number of different technologies in
       | your tech stack. That will allow you to collect more best
       | practices, build better tooling and monitoring and develop
       | operational experience in those few technologies than if it was
       | spread across multiple similar stacks.
       | 
       | Example: React is great for starting with smaller and/or
       | progressively enhanced websites, but if you were to develop a
       | large monolithic SPA you might benefit more from something like
       | Ember. However it would be better to use one stack which can
       | cover both use-cases, so you should probably go with React for
       | both, otherwise you'll forever be rewriting the same code for
       | both stacks and figuring out build and tooling issues twice.
       | 
       | Another example: You might need a lightweight message queue for
       | smaller background processing needs, and you might also need a
       | proper distributed log. The former could be solved by any number
       | of queues, while the latter calls for something like Kafka. If
       | Kafka can also reasonably cover the first use-case you should try
       | to use it for both.
        
         | [deleted]
        
       | dwohnitmok wrote:
       | I think commentators are missing that a big part of boring
       | technology is, well, that it's _boring_. If developers are
       | excited to _use_ that technology, instead of just thinking  "meh
       | just another one of those companies using X" then it's probably
       | not boring.
       | 
       | If your technology gets developers excited then it's not boring.
       | 
       | As per the original article that introduced the term, that
       | doesn't mean that it's a priori a bad thing, but it does mean
       | that the bar for the other things it brings to the table needs to
       | be higher and that most startups only get a limited number of
       | technologies to be excited about.
        
       | sedatk wrote:
       | > biases for non-breaking changes easing long term
       | maintainability
       | 
       | So, not ElasticSearch.
        
         | mrweasel wrote:
         | Or Kubernetes
        
       | ChrisArchitect wrote:
       | Hey OP or mods, could you please _update this link_
       | 
       | Dunno where the staging server came from
       | 
       | https://blog.begin.com/posts/2022-01-27-the-boring-technolog...
        
         | andrewf wrote:
         | I'm years out of date on this stuff, but I note the staging URL
         | has found its way into Google as well, you might be able to fix
         | that up by adjusting the <link rel="canonical"
         | href="https://blog.staging.begin.com/..." /> to point to the
         | authoritative URL even when the page is on the staging server.
        
         | dang wrote:
         | Ok, changed from
         | https://blog.staging.begin.com/posts/2022-01-27-the-
         | boring-t.... Thanks!
        
         | macdonst wrote:
         | Whelp, I'm an idiot for copying the wrong url. I don't seem to
         | be able to edit the url, only the title.
        
       | hughrr wrote:
       | Please also add _"doesn't auto close three million ignored GitHub
       | tickets"_ every week, the true quality metric these days.
        
         | antod wrote:
         | Well, they were _boring_ tickets in the CADT sense.
         | 
         | Seriously though, probably the difference being a _boring_
         | project and being a _bored_ project.
        
       | xupybd wrote:
       | I think F# meets all of the checklist items for me. I'm still not
       | going to consider it boring as it's too esoteric.
        
       | Steltek wrote:
       | This article would be enhanced with concrete examples. The
       | "Boring Technology" argument is hard to attack because it's an
       | opinion, an ideal. It's a good ideal, mind you, but it has the
       | problem of being different for each person, even if they're all
       | on the same team looking at the same use case.
       | 
       | Another good extension to the topic would also be defining when
       | Boring Technology becomes Ancient Technology. You need to hit
       | that middle of the tech curve where it's understood and stable
       | but also still being maintained and keeping up with modern needs.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | deltarholamda wrote:
         | I think the flexibility of the ideal is part of what makes it
         | so attractive. "Boring" may mean some pretty cutting-edge
         | technology because your team is so thoroughly steeped in it
         | that they know it back to front.
         | 
         | For me, "boring" means avoiding things like Kubernetes because
         | it's an ecosystem with which I am woefully unfamiliar and I can
         | more or less achieve with other (possibly less efficient)
         | means.
         | 
         | Ted Dziuba made a point a while back that the three tools for
         | systems engineering are money, time, and code, and they should
         | be used in that order. It's a sort of shorthand for "boring" to
         | just buy a bigger server, or spend the time to leverage
         | existing and know Unix tools, and then if all that fails, use
         | some gimcrack new tech to solve your problems.
         | 
         | (Though, I'd say that the biggest impediment to leveraging
         | "boring" technologies is correctly determining what your
         | problem is. Sometimes we focus on the wrong metrics, or the
         | right metrics at the wrong time, and that skews our decision
         | making.)
        
       | 62951413 wrote:
       | A boring technology is one with which a large number of
       | developers have previous production experience with. Or probably
       | even "of the developers you can realistically expect to hire".
        
         | ghughes wrote:
         | Better yet, hire developers who enjoy and excel at selecting
         | and utilizing emerging technologies that will be a better long-
         | term fit for the problem at hand. This is of course more
         | difficult, but makes for a better team and product. I want my
         | competitors to be afraid of technology and to de-prioritize
         | hiring generalists.
        
       | wyager wrote:
       | > friendly community (Code of Conduct, blogs, chats, podcasts,
       | etc.)
       | 
       | In my experience, most of these things negatively correlate with
       | stuff I actually want (like software quality or stability). It
       | indicates a software ecosystem that exists mostly as an ersatz
       | social outlet for a certain kind of person. The best softwares I
       | use tend to have none of this stuff - maybe just a mailing list
       | and a bug tracker.
        
         | Jensson wrote:
         | Yeah, boring technology requires boring owners to ensure that
         | stuff like Python 3 wont happen.
        
       | mwcampbell wrote:
       | I was surprised to find this published on begin.com, which offers
       | an app deployment platform based on AWS Lambda. So are Lambda,
       | API Gateway, and friends considered boring now?
        
         | tikhonj wrote:
         | Nobody gets fired for choosing IBM, and nobody gets fired for
         | choosing AWS.
         | 
         | The corollary that's missing, of course, is that they often
         | _should_ get fired--but popular (sorry,  "boring") choices have
         | a momentum of their own.
        
         | zdw wrote:
         | They may not be, but cgi-bin, webservers, and monitoring via
         | grep /var/log/www/*.log are.
        
           | Cthulhu_ wrote:
           | You say that, but setting up a LAMP stack from scratch is
           | more involved than just yeeting something onto GCP these
           | days.
        
             | mschuster91 wrote:
             | On Debian, a LAMP stack should not take more than an hour
             | to set up from scratch.
        
         | erikpukinskis wrote:
         | Is lambda really that different from any other server
         | technology?
         | 
         | It's just a container that you have to boot and it handles web
         | requests, right?
         | 
         | They boot fast, so for a low traffic site you can worry less
         | about cold start, is there any other difference with any other
         | containerized web server?
        
           | travisjungroth wrote:
           | Yes. In theory it would be the same but practically there are
           | lots of gotchas. For a simple example, having a calculated
           | cache on startup that five seconds would be fine on a
           | traditional server but not on lambda.
        
         | brianleroux wrote:
         | hello author here! personally find AWS extremely boring, very
         | mature and stable. well known limits, and tradeoffs.
        
       | [deleted]
        
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