[HN Gopher] The strangely successful history of people mailing t...
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The strangely successful history of people mailing themselves in
       boxes (2015)
        
       Author : IAmGraydon
       Score  : 129 points
       Date   : 2022-01-27 12:32 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.atlasobscura.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.atlasobscura.com)
        
       | AnimalMuppet wrote:
       | See the childrens' book "Mailing May", which is (IIRC) based on a
       | true story. They put postage stamps on a child and mailed her on
       | a passenger train that also carried mail, because postage was
       | cheaper than fare for a passenger. They bent the rules that
       | allowed mailing live chicks to cover her.
       | 
       | Tangentially related: Duchesne, Utah, wanted to build a railroad
       | station, in the hopes of attracting a railroad. They mailed the
       | bricks for the station to the town, because mail was cheaper than
       | freight rates on wagons.
        
         | JoeAltmaier wrote:
         | I'd remembered a couple in Alaska wanted to build a cabin up a
         | river with no road. So they got an address assigned, then
         | mailed the building materials a brick at a time. It became the
         | Post Office's problem. Had to hire a boat.
        
       | tcskeptic wrote:
       | RaMell Ross shipped himself from Rhode Island to Alabama in 2021.
       | He has created an installation called Return to Origin currently
       | on display at the Museum of Southern Art in New Orleans.
       | 
       | I got to see it recently -- it is fascinating and moving.
       | 
       | https://www.ramellross.com/Return-to-Orgin
        
         | selimthegrim wrote:
         | The Ogden Museum, it is better known as.
        
           | tcskeptic wrote:
           | Ah, thanks for letting me know. It was an amazing visit.
        
       | samstave wrote:
       | I'm surprised that "People shipping pods" arent a thing...
       | 
       | Take one of those suicide pods and modify it to support life and
       | shipping and handling...
        
         | jjeaff wrote:
         | They are a thing. That's what Spirit and Allegiant airlines
         | specialize in.
         | 
         | Though I haven't heard their planes referred to as suicide
         | pods, it's an apt description.
        
         | parhamn wrote:
         | They're called airplanes and we've managed to outsource half
         | the shipping and handling to the cargo itself.
        
           | samstave wrote:
           | You dystopian heck!
           | 
           | Obv you are correct, but thats not the answer I was looking
           | for...
           | 
           | I suppose the 'answer' was "how to ship myself in effectively
           | first class for the cost of shipping a box of rocks, as
           | opoosed to a first-class ticket"
           | 
           | ---
           | 
           | Sadly, what would the economies of scale be if every first
           | class ticket was a pod insert, as opposed to a seat?
        
             | xboxnolifes wrote:
             | I'm not sure it would actually be cheaper than a first
             | class ticket. I'm not very familiar with cost of shipping,
             | so I'm going off very rough numbers her, but [1] UPS lists
             | next day air shipping for packages over 100 pounds to be
             | between $2 and $7 a pound. Maybe these aren't the correct
             | numbers to use, but even if it costs $3 a pound, we're
             | looking at $450 for a 150lb person. That's not including
             | the weight of any accommodations. And that's assuming
             | pretty much the low end of shipping costs for non-human
             | accommodations.
             | 
             | [1] https://www.ups.com/assets/resources/media/en_US/cwt-
             | rates-p...
        
             | Karunamon wrote:
             | Make it so I'm knocked out during the duration and I'd sign
             | up in a heartbeat.
             | 
             | The real killer (ha) would be finding a way to anesthetize
             | and reawaken the general population in a safe and
             | controlled, yet efficient, way.
        
               | samstave wrote:
               | Until this is a common form of middle-ish-class travel
               | but is used as an effective assassination mechanism...
               | 
               |  _" A delegate from the CH to the EU was extinguished due
               | to an apparent oxygen regulator that failed and all 100
               | of the Chinese Delegation passed during transit due to
               | suffocation"_
        
       | belter wrote:
       | More interesting, can we talk about the story of people
       | successfully emailing themselves...Suggestions?
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | perihelions wrote:
         | That's a minor plot point in Stross' _Accelerando_ (although it
         | was uploaded lobsters rather than people).
        
           | belter wrote:
           | Specifically, the California spiny lobster...
           | https://youtu.be/5FjeCBUwxx8?t=2018
        
       | cmusfan wrote:
       | This is very dangerous especially if the box gets inverted. Also,
       | you might get stuck under other cargo in a non-climate controlled
       | storage area, or have a forklift poke into you. Mosy anyone who
       | has worked in shipping or receiving has seen really damaged
       | boxes.
        
         | jupp0r wrote:
         | You also might get stolen from a cargo train in LA!
        
           | Bilal_io wrote:
           | Or from in front of your door.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | trwhite wrote:
       | I wonder if being exposed to the (gamma) radiation they scan some
       | of these packages with is a consideration.
        
         | bryanrasmussen wrote:
         | Maybe, I heard from Nick Fury that low levels of gamma
         | radiation can be harmful.
        
         | rwmj wrote:
         | Apparently the box which Carlos Ghosn[1] travelled inside
         | couldn't be X-rayed because it was too large.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carlos_Ghosn#Flight_from_Japan
        
         | hotpotamus wrote:
         | Where would they scan packages with gamma? That seems too high
         | energy for any imaging, but it's not something I'm super
         | knowledgeable about.
        
       | dukeofdoom wrote:
        
         | hyperhopper wrote:
         | Makes sense. Packages dont host, provide a breeding ground for,
         | and spread extremely contagious viruses.
        
           | friendlydog wrote:
           | People are refuting it now but China thought that mail was
           | dangerous around 9 days ago:
           | 
           | https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/coronavirus-china-
           | disinfects...
           | 
           | Also packages contain cardboard which is often host to
           | roaches and other plague spreaders, but we both know you were
           | referring to a specific virus.
        
           | dukeofdoom wrote:
           | Doesn't make sense, because the vaccine does not prevent
           | infection. Meaning the vaccinated are getting infected at
           | same or higher rates than unvaccinated, and spreading it just
           | the same. Current data for Ontario. 3rd graph. Case rate per
           | 100k.
           | 
           | https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data?fbclid=1
        
             | hcknwscommenter wrote:
             | Ontario is 89% fully vaccinated by your own link. In order
             | to assess whether vaccinated are getting infected at same
             | or higher rates (certainly untrue, but that is what you
             | assert), you have to adjust for the fact that there are
             | vastly more vaccinated in Ontario. A quick and dirty (but
             | still pretty good) method is to simply multiply the
             | "unvaccinated" numbers in "3rd graph. Case rate per 100k"
             | by 10. If you make that adjustment it is quite clear that
             | the unvaccinated are getting decimated by infection as
             | compared to the vaccinated. This holds for graph 1 (in ICU)
             | and graph 2 (in hospital) as well.
        
               | feoren wrote:
               | From the link: "Rate of COVID-19 cases per 100,000 is
               | calculated by dividing the number of cases for a
               | vaccination status, by the total number of people _with
               | the same vaccination status_ , and then multiplying by
               | 100,000."
               | 
               | I'm as surprised as you are, but those particular graphs
               | do indeed support GP's statement about vaccinated having
               | higher case rates. (Doesn't mean the risk is the same:
               | are the vaccinated more likely to have parties?) But GP
               | has no evidence for the vaccinated "spreading it just the
               | same".
        
               | dukeofdoom wrote:
               | That makes zero sense what you wrote. You're proposing to
               | adjust the numbers twice.
               | 
               | 3rd graph.
               | 
               | January 5th (peak):
               | 
               | 78 cases per 100k people in the unvaccinated group.
               | 
               | 102 cases per 100k people who were double vaccinated
               | 
               | January 26th:
               | 
               | 35 cases per 100k people in the unvaccinated group.
               | 
               | 37 cases per 100k people in the double vaccinated group.
               | 
               | My claim stands that the vaccinated have the same or
               | higher chance of being infected based on this data.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | TheDong wrote:
             | There's something weird going on in that graph.
             | 
             | If you click through each age group individually, they all
             | show the unvaccinated rate per 100k as much higher than
             | vaccinated. Yet, the "All ages" group has the opposite.
             | 
             | That doesn't seem like it should be possible. The age
             | ranges supposedly cover every age (0 to 80+ seems like all
             | ages to me), and within each sub-group, unvaccinated case
             | rates are larger... it doesn't seem possible for the all-
             | ages graph to show the opposite.
             | 
             | Do you have any insight into that discrepancy?
        
               | feoren wrote:
               | Possibly not what's happening, but this is a well-known
               | occurrence in comparing subsets to an overall set. It's
               | called Simpson's Paradox:
               | 
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simpson%27s_paradox
        
               | dukeofdoom wrote:
               | Yes, they stopped tracking by age, I believe October
               | 24th. So when you switch the graph to view by age group
               | you're seeing the graph upto October 24th. It shows you
               | data before Omicron. There's a disclaimer on top of the
               | page explaining this.
        
         | Iv wrote:
         | A package has more right to travel than a human. Period.
        
       | melenaboija wrote:
       | This made me think on this recent event:
       | 
       | " Stowaway found in South Africa plane wheel at Amsterdam
       | airport"[1]
       | 
       | Amazing to survive without oxygen and probably not decent clothes
       | at that altitude for that long.
       | 
       | [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60104010
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | The lack of oxygen isn't really a problem. At 30-40k feet you
         | will likely pass out, but a few hours will not kill a healthy
         | person. The cold certainly might, but there is enough air for
         | basic breathing needs. Those drop-down oxygen masks on aircraft
         | are really not necessary. If you remain calm you will probably
         | be fine. If you panic then you will pass out and wake up once
         | the plane descends to denser air. I'd be far more afraid of
         | being crushed or snapped in half by the hydraulic gear.
         | 
         | There is thinking that those oxygen masks should be removed
         | from planes. They have likely never saved a life, but they have
         | caused at least one crash after the oxygen generators ignited.
        
           | ArnoVW wrote:
           | Loss of pressure at 30k is deadly. In recent history a
           | mechanic forgot to reset 'oxygen' to 'auto' after some
           | debugging session. The two pilots missed it on their
           | checklist.
           | 
           | While they were climnbing they gradually lost consciousness.
           | One of the non flight crew ended up being the only conscious
           | person on board. When his air ran out, he lost consciousness.
           | 
           | The flight ended when all kerosine was used, by flying into a
           | hillside.
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522
        
           | tehjoker wrote:
           | They would keep people awake and alert even if they don't
           | pass out. That's pretty useful in an emergency.
        
           | melenaboija wrote:
           | Totally agree, being smashed by the wheel sounds dangerous.
           | 
           | The lack of oxygen for a long period though can have severe
           | consequences or even kill someone.
           | 
           | That is at least in the mountain where you need more oxygen
           | as you are moving but staying few hours in any condition at
           | 30-40k feet still does seem a problem to me.
           | 
           | https://climbtallpeaks.com/how-high-can-you-climb-before-
           | you...
        
             | sithadmin wrote:
             | 30-40k ft is absolutely a problem. Even if you remain
             | conscious, you're completely unable to think coherently and
             | generally have no idea what you're doing. Stay there long
             | enough and you will unquestionably suffer brain damage and
             | probably death as well.
             | 
             | SmarterEveryDay did a good video about hypoxia training
             | that demonstrates the very rapid onset and severe effects
             | of hypoxia at cruising altitudes:
             | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUfF2MTnqAw
        
           | rezonant wrote:
           | You will pass out in 15 seconds no matter how calm you are.
           | Then, after 4 minutes without oxygen you will begin to suffer
           | brain damage. The oxygen generator the mask is connected to
           | generally supplies about 15-20m of oxygen which is more than
           | enough as it typically only takes 2-4 minutes for the
           | emergency descent the pilot will do after loss of cabin
           | pressure, this is of course, assuming the pilot is still
           | conscious himself. There are numerous accidents where the
           | pilots themselves delay putting on their oxygen masks with
           | disastrous consequences, because your critical thinking and
           | reasoning skills hit the floor within seconds.
           | 
           | The main point of the oxygen masks though is primarily to
           | keep all passengers alert and ready as it is essential that
           | at all times an evacuation can be performed in under 90
           | seconds. When the passengers are not able to reason correctly
           | due to hypoxia, that's effectively impossible. This is what
           | could kill you and your fellow passengers if you fail to put
           | on your oxygen mask in a pressurization failure incident.
           | 
           | Which incident are you referring to with the oxygen
           | generators igniting? Not this one I hope?
           | 
           | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ValuJet_Airlines_Flight_592
           | 
           | > However, the NTSB quickly determined that just before
           | takeoff, 144[15] expired chemical oxygen generators, each
           | slightly larger than the size of a tennis ball can, had been
           | placed in the cargo compartment in five boxes marked COMAT
           | (company material) by ValuJet's maintenance contractor,
           | SabreTech, in violation of Federal Aviation Administration
           | (FAA) regulations forbidding the transport of hazardous
           | materials in passenger aircraft cargo holds.
           | 
           | Because that's not exactly the fault of the ones that were
           | installed on the plane itself.
        
             | sandworm101 wrote:
             | >> You will pass out in 15 seconds no matter how calm you
             | are.
             | 
             | Well, I certainly didn't. In training (military) I did a
             | pressure chamber day with 33,000ft breathing (lots of fun,
             | do it if you ever get the chance). They took us to 12,000
             | in a big chamber and then fed us a reduced oxygen via masks
             | to simulate 33,000ft. After about a minute I certainly felt
             | effects, but I was very much awake long long after 15
             | seconds. I was playing solitaire on an iPad thing. After
             | everyone noticed their personal symptoms they switched us
             | over to pure O2. Some experienced tunnel vision and such.
             | All I ever felt was as slight headache and that I was doing
             | worse at the ipad game. I was awake enough to remember the
             | Sargent who walked up and down the chamber looking us in
             | the eye to see if we were awake. He was scary.
        
               | rezonant wrote:
               | You can undergo training to improve function during
               | hypoxic events and some people are naturally better at
               | dealing with it, but that doesn't mean the general
               | population will have the same experience, so I don't
               | think removing this vital tool for aircraft safety is a
               | good call due to a single incident (let me know if you
               | have a reference on that as I'm very curious).
               | 
               | It would make more sense to determine why the incident
               | occurred and modify the design of the oxygen generators
               | to avoid that scenario in the future, which is what I
               | assumed happened.
        
               | morcheeba wrote:
               | There are different kinds of training - it sounds like
               | you got a good one, but it's not fully simulating a
               | blown-door situation. There's a difference between less
               | oxygen @12,000ft and the actual low pressure of 33,000ft:
               | The higher altitude has about 1/3rd the pressure of the
               | lower altitude, so it actively removes oxygen from your
               | body (lungs, blood) faster. But simulating with an abrupt
               | 33,000 feet would cause ear pressure problems, and it's a
               | lot safer (and quickly reversible) to just play with the
               | oxygen concentration.
               | 
               | Also, in this thread, I think you all know this, but
               | wanted to make sure - a chemical oxygen generator "burns"
               | to produce oxygen. The exothermic reaction is started
               | with a small explosive; burning means its producing
               | oxygen. Of course, in the 592 crash, they weren't
               | properly packed with heat shielding, so catching other
               | things on fire (plus the excess oxygen) was the cause of
               | the crash.
               | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_oxygen_generator
        
             | DarylZero wrote:
             | > You will pass out in 15 seconds
             | 
             | You can easily hold your breath or stay underwater for
             | longer than 15 seconds.
        
             | LorenPechtel wrote:
             | 15 seconds is the time at FL400 and it's not a total loss
             | of oxygen, you've got more than 4 minutes before brain
             | damage. While a healthy person would probably wake up fine
             | after the emergency dive someone who already has health
             | issues is another matter.
        
               | rezonant wrote:
               | Good points
        
         | hutzlibu wrote:
         | Or the other recent events with planes leaving afghanistan with
         | people who tried the same on the wheels, but as far as I know
         | no one succeded alive.
        
       | rsfayez wrote:
       | "As travel technology changed, the romantic notion of a stowaway
       | took a hit. " not really sure what the romantic notion was about.
       | 
       | The article definitely reminded me that What We Do in the Shadows
       | is literally one of the finest pieces of entertainment the world
       | has witnessed.
        
         | brink wrote:
         | One of the qualifications for being romantic is being
         | irreversible. Once you're in that container, you can't get out
         | until it's over.
        
       | qbantek wrote:
       | Story is missing a few modern day examples, I still remember this
       | one:
       | 
       | https://www.sunjournal.com/2004/08/26/strongcuban-woman-ship...
        
       | sandworm101 wrote:
       | Even stranger:
       | 
       | https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4555146/US-parents-...
       | 
       | "At least seven children were stamped, mailed and dutifully
       | delivered by the service between 1913 and 1915"
        
         | bell-cot wrote:
         | Maybe I'm too old, but these stories amount to "in an old rural
         | area, where everybody knew everybody, paying postage on the kid
         | provided a decent excuse for Post Office managers to look the
         | other way when folks wanted an employee to escort their kid
         | somewhere".
         | 
         | When (a few decades later) I first started walking to
         | kindergarten as a kid, my mother paid an older (maybe 5th
         | grade) neighbor kid 10 cents a day to make sure I got there &
         | back okay. (It was a bit over 1/2 mile each way, otherwise
         | alone. And 10 cents would easily buy a full-sized candy bar
         | back then.)
        
       | technotarek wrote:
       | Velvet Underground anyone? Slightly less successful.
        
         | royaltheartist wrote:
         | He mailed himself successfully in that song. It was the opening
         | of the box where things went wrong
        
         | tlholaday wrote:
         | Marcia: It's from Waldo!
        
           | jonstewart wrote:
           | That schmuck!
        
             | Optimal_Persona wrote:
             | Just like an octopus, hands all over the place!
        
         | skinnymuch wrote:
         | First thought. For people not into music or this sort of indie
         | rock music. The song is worth a listen for its innovation and
         | sleekness at the time. The song, The Gift, is from Velvet
         | Underground's 2nd album in 1968. It's long and is all spoken
         | word. The story comes out of the left speaker and the rock
         | music comes from the right speaker.
         | 
         | The song is influential. The more contemporary 'Undone - The
         | Sweater Song' by Weezer in 1994 is influenced by The Gift. Also
         | has sleek rock music and a lot of spoken words.
        
           | aidenn0 wrote:
           | I hadn't heard this before, but it reminds me a lot of "Spill
           | the Wine" which was from 2 years later.
        
           | troyvit wrote:
           | It has been bugging me off and on for years that I couldn't
           | remember this song! Saw this HN article and hoped somebody
           | would mention it. Thank you!
        
         | technotarek wrote:
         | Here's the song: https://youtu.be/mI-YiaWDgB4
        
       | everyone wrote:
       | "like so many rolls of toilet paper from Amazon"
       | 
       | Who the hell buys toilet paper from Amazon!?
        
         | jwdunne wrote:
         | My mum did but that's only because there was an insane deal and
         | she got 1,000 rolls for like PS10.
         | 
         | Sadly, this was right before the toilet roll shortage from
         | panic buying before the first UK wave of Covid and she'd give
         | them all away by that point.
        
         | gwbas1c wrote:
         | I do!
         | 
         | Toilet paper is the one thing I do not want to run out of, so I
         | always have plenty of backup. All of my bathrooms are well-
         | stocked, and I make sure there's spare rolls in the basement.
         | 
         | When I replenish one of my bathrooms, if I'm getting low on
         | spare rolls, I pull out my phone and order more off of Amazon.
         | The price is quite similar to the grocery store, and it's about
         | as easy to order more from Amazon as it is to put it on my
         | shopping list and buy some at the grocery store.
         | 
         | BTW: I'm not as crazy as my parents. At the beginning of the
         | pandemic we all had plenty of backup rolls, but my parents are
         | a little neurotic and had my sister and I looking for their
         | specific brand. (They think their septic tank will explode if
         | they use anything but Scott.) I managed to get a giant box of
         | Scott, with plenty of toilet paper for all three of our
         | households, sent to my house. My parents refused to use it
         | because it was 2-ply instead of 1-ply. When I finally went
         | inside of their house when it was safe, they managed to hoard a
         | 2-year's supply of toilet paper in their basement.
        
           | dashwehacct wrote:
           | Now I'm curious. How many rolls of toilet paper is a two
           | years supply?
        
             | 0xffff2 wrote:
             | It varies _widely_. For just me, I 'd estimate a two year
             | supply of toilet paper is ~24 rolls. For another member of
             | my household, well, I doubt a two years supply would
             | physically fit in my 3 bedroom house.
        
           | Gunnerhead wrote:
           | This was seriously such an interesting anecdote.
        
           | unknown_apostle wrote:
           | +1 pls tell us more :-)))))
        
           | throw1234651234 wrote:
           | I enjoyed this lengthy soliloquy on toilet paper.
        
           | aurizon wrote:
           | Yes, he left location hints on GA, we grabbed his stash and
           | are selling it now...
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | hydrok9 wrote:
           | my grandfather used to drive to another town half an hour
           | away, because toilet paper was one or two dollars cheaper. No
           | one could ever convince him that he paid more in gas than he
           | ever saved. But he always had a small room full of toilet
           | paper! He also kept his bonds in...the trunk of his car.
        
         | mortehu wrote:
         | We buy basically everything other than hot food from Amazon.
         | Why is toilet paper special?
         | 
         | Going in person to a warehouse style store like a grocery store
         | or department store is becoming a quaint experience from the
         | past (for us at least).
        
           | everyone wrote:
           | Do you live in a weird area? Like very remote or extremely
           | low density or something? Or are you just upper class? I
           | would assume getting all your groceries delivered from amazon
           | would be significantly more expensive than buying them from a
           | supermarket.
        
             | ravenstine wrote:
             | In the LA area, I've noticed that the vast majority of
             | grocery store customers are elderly. It's common for me to
             | be the only person under 50, besides sometimes mothers with
             | kids in tow or some dude buying beer. Whether I'm on the
             | westside or some random suburb, it's like this. Once enough
             | of the elderly die off, so will many of these grocery
             | stores, I think. One of the few exceptions is Trader Joe's
             | for some reason. Even I have been buying more groceries
             | online just to avoid the abysmal experience of grocery
             | stores.
        
               | hunterb123 wrote:
               | Very strange. So people buy their TP online and get it
               | shipped to them with more paper around them than it takes
               | to make the rolls themselves? Opening, breaking down and
               | disposing the box seems much more work and wasteful.
               | 
               | I understand groceries delivered by Instacart etc., but I
               | don't understand ordering bulk non-perishable consumables
               | online when a one time trip to a wholesale store like
               | Sams would be much cheaper and "greener".
        
               | toast0 wrote:
               | > Very strange. So people buy their TP online and get it
               | shipped to them with more paper around them than it takes
               | to make the rolls themselves? Opening, breaking down and
               | disposing the box seems much more work and wasteful.
               | 
               | TP ships to grocery stores in cardboard boxes too; if you
               | buy the large sizes, they just put the shipping label on
               | that box.
        
               | hunterb123 wrote:
               | - Stores _could_ recycle /reuse the boxes a lot easier
               | and maybe they do.
               | 
               | - You don't have to handle the breaking down and
               | disposing yourself.
               | 
               | - How many people doing this are buying 96ct boxes?
               | 
               | - It takes a ridiculous amount of space for last mile
               | delivery especially if they are buying the 96ct box which
               | would be the closest to efficiency of a wholesale store,
               | but still not as good.
               | 
               | I'm not a eco-nazi so I don't really care to squabble
               | over emissions, but it's a bit silly, do people in LA not
               | do wholesale runs a couple times a year for bulk items?
               | It just seems wasteful for the delivery system and
               | yourself, financially and otherwise.
        
               | TigeriusKirk wrote:
               | I feel like their has to be a business in collecting used
               | Amazon boxes and selling them back to Amazon.
        
               | laegooose wrote:
               | How is it greener? You drive to a store and back alone;
               | delivery driver has multiple deliveries next to each
               | other on the route.
        
               | hunterb123 wrote:
               | You can buy more in bulk and shipping doesn't just
               | involve the delivery driver, whose truck you just took
               | 1/4th the space of with TP, requiring more resupply
               | trips.
               | 
               | Shipping to a wholesale store is obviously more efficient
               | than to the last mile, I don't see how that's up for
               | debate. Generally you run other errands as well.
        
               | mortehu wrote:
               | You are making guesswork drive a lot of your opinions
               | here. Why can you buy more in bulk in person than when a
               | truck drives to your building? The concept of "last mile"
               | makes no sense for Amazon, since they will drive past
               | your address in the suburbs anyway, and in a city they're
               | already driving to your building (several times per day
               | if it's big).
               | 
               | I agree Instacart is probably garbage for the
               | environment, because in the suburbs it's often a
               | passenger car delivering for just one household, but
               | that's just equal to the baseline.
        
               | hunterb123 wrote:
               | There's limited space on that truck, you know that right?
               | 
               | They have to resupply. Bulk TP takes up room, a little
               | amount of TP is inefficient.
               | 
               | In no way is getting TP delivered to you ever more
               | efficient than buying from a wholesale store.
               | 
               | You're trying to justify it, for whatever reason. I'm not
               | advocating to banish it, it just seems silly.
               | 
               | > and in a city they're already driving to your building
               | (several times per day if it's big).
               | 
               | Yes they're driving around all day because everyone is
               | buying stuff like TP lol.
               | 
               | - edit to reply below because post limit -
               | 
               | TP is a lightweight, large volume package. The more TP
               | you order more frequently, the less space the truck has,
               | the more amount of resupply trips needed.
               | 
               | The alternative (normal way) I'm proposing is not those
               | cars filling the same void as the truck. It's that you
               | should buy in bulk those items, directly, less frequency
               | and leave more room for mass last mile delivery of items
               | that are small / perishable / unavailable in bulk.
        
               | mortehu wrote:
               | > There's limited space on that truck, you know that
               | right?
               | 
               | What sort of delivery mode is this statement supposed to
               | defend?
               | 
               | I deleted a lot of text to substitute this simple
               | question: if you wanted to bring toilet paper to all 250
               | apartments in our building, would you use a passenger car
               | or a truck?
        
             | putnambr wrote:
             | These responses are really unsettling to me. For how much
             | people complain about Amazon's power and unfair treatment
             | of workers, how it ruins small business, moves money out of
             | rural areas, how shipping price increases are driving
             | inflation, how bad shipping/Amazon is for the
             | environment... it's jolting to see people say they order
             | not only a lightweight but high volume material like toilet
             | paper, but also the majority of their groceries to their
             | homes. Everyone I know shops at WinCo, Fred Meyer, Trader
             | Joes, and the Co-Op. The only thing I've ever considered
             | hitting the 'subscribe and save' button on is a medication
             | for my dog.
        
               | siva7 wrote:
               | What exactly is more economical on owning a car and
               | driving to the grocery store than just ordering it?
        
               | rsj_hn wrote:
               | If all you did with a car was get groceries, it would
               | probably be more economical to just order delivery. Most
               | people use their car for a lot more than that, though.
        
               | mortehu wrote:
               | Why exactly do you think in person shopping is better for
               | the environment? Studies usually come out in favor of
               | delivery.
               | 
               | On top of that we live in an apartment building, and a
               | single truck makes deliveries for dozens of, if not a
               | hundred, households (there are 250 units, and multiple
               | trucks arrive each day). Imagine if all of us drove cars
               | to accomplish this instead.
        
             | acheron wrote:
             | You would assume wrongly, then.
        
               | everyone wrote:
               | Maybe not in some kind of dystopian mad-max land I
               | suppose.
        
             | gwbas1c wrote:
             | A lot of times when I go to the grocery store I compare
             | prices. Amazon is usually similar. (With free shipping)
             | 
             | I can either add an item to a grocery list on my phone, or
             | I can just order it from Amazon. I might as well just order
             | it and "be done."
        
             | mortehu wrote:
             | I live in lower Manhattan. Stores here aren't particularly
             | cheap, but I haven't done a thorough comparison. Even if
             | the stores were cheaper, the time savings would cover a
             | pretty big difference. Having kids certainly increases the
             | value of time.
        
             | kube-system wrote:
             | For a while, Amazon delivery from Whole Foods didn't have
             | any extra fees with Prime, I believe.
        
             | showerst wrote:
             | It may be the opposite -- if you live in a city with amazon
             | fresh, the prices are about the same as the grocery store.
             | Various amazon sales/credits (and cashback from an amazon
             | credit card) usually offset the delivery price. If you live
             | somewhere where they fulfill whole foods, then those prices
             | are the same as well.
             | 
             | FWIW I live in a city and don't have a ton of storage
             | space, so getting bulk prices from a warehouse store is
             | impractical. TP and Paper towels come on subscribe and save
             | and are cheaper than the corner store, and roughly the same
             | as the grocery store.
             | 
             | I still shop in person most of the time because I like to
             | pick my produce and the substitutions tend to be a mess,
             | but delivery is great when things are busy or we want a
             | bigger order.
        
         | ReactiveJelly wrote:
         | During the TP shortage of 2020, it seemed like the safest thing
         | to do
        
       | whatever1 wrote:
       | The first time I had to post a mail was when I moved to an
       | apartment and I had to send the check to the landlord.
       | 
       | So I wrote my landlord's address at the top and my address below
       | it, stamped it and happily posted it.
       | 
       | Sure thing after two days I received in my mailbox my check
       | /facepalm
        
         | sandworm101 wrote:
         | That is actually an old legal trick. By mailing something to
         | yourself you are getting a sealed envelope that is dated by a
         | government agency. If you want to prove that you had or knew
         | something at a particular time (like a copy of a will or a
         | statement by someone) then it is a useful scheme.
        
           | conductr wrote:
           | More commonly, to deliver the letter without postage.
        
           | mindcrime wrote:
           | That doesn't actually prove anything. Consider: you could
           | have mailed an open, unsealed envelope to yourself, and then
           | sealed it at any later date.
        
             | sandworm101 wrote:
             | If your post office is accepting open envelopes then they
             | need to stop doing so. It's not just against various rules
             | but can jam the machines that sort envelopes.
        
               | mindcrime wrote:
               | You could tack it shut just enough to get by, but not
               | actually full seal it. For that matter, you could
               | probably just stuff the outer flap down inside the
               | envelope and _maybe_ put a very small piece of tape on
               | it. Same difference in the end. The point being, mailing
               | yourself an envelope doesn 't really prove anything about
               | the provenance of whatever is found inside later.
        
               | Verdex wrote:
               | I guess you could tape it shut and then carefully remove
               | the tape when you get it. Once you have something you
               | want to "send to the past" you use whatever natural
               | stickiness comes with the envelope.
        
         | samatman wrote:
         | Did you write RETURN TO SENDER on the envelope and stick it
         | back in the mailbox?
        
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