[HN Gopher] Crows may soon be Sweden's newest litter pickers
___________________________________________________________________
Crows may soon be Sweden's newest litter pickers
Author : Markoff
Score : 105 points
Date : 2022-01-27 12:27 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thelocal.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thelocal.com)
| spcebar wrote:
| In other news, a cigarette shortage has been reported, with
| thousands of crows queued outside tobacconists around the nation.
| amelius wrote:
| Reminds me of a Hitchcock movie ...
|
| Now it is clear that those birds were trained by some AI to
| solve some problem.
| mschuster91 wrote:
| > It would be interesting to see if this could work in other
| environments as well. Also from the perspective that we can teach
| crows to pick up cigarette butts but we can't teach people not to
| throw them on the ground.
|
| Well... you _can_ , by providing enough litter bins that people
| don't have to hold a cigarette butt or a dog-poo bag for half a
| kilometer or more. Unfortunately, since litter bins cost money to
| operate, most cities don't put up enough.
|
| For toilets, it's the same. Public, free-of-charge toilets are an
| absolute rarity... and politicians whine all the time about
| people just relieving themselves on the next bush.
| pbhjpbhj wrote:
| Fucking dog poo bags.
|
| Anyone who doesn't use fully biodegradable bags (eg cornstarch)
| is evil.
|
| Anyone who leaves them hanging on trees deserves to have their
| animal taken away and be given community service cleaning up
| excrement.
|
| Rubbish/refuse/litter/trash though, put it in your pocket, or a
| shoulder bag, then dispose of it when you get home. No need to
| put litter bins all over the place.
| Kosirich wrote:
| _" Anyone who doesn't use fully biodegradable bags (eg
| cornstarch) is evil."_ Care to elaborate?
| mschuster91 wrote:
| Put pure dog poo in a compost bin and it will degrade and
| dissolve into the compost.
|
| Put dog poo in a non-fully-degradable plastic bag and put
| it in a compost bin and it will just be the same poo in a
| decade.
| RALaBarge wrote:
| I agree with most of this.
|
| The thing about litter bins, though, is that if you do put
| them in good spots they are effective at modifying the
| behavior you are against here. If you want to affect a change
| in behavior, you will have better success working with the
| flow of how we know humans interact with the environment than
| against it.
| foxfluff wrote:
| Well I heard smokers in some parts of the world carry a little
| jar in their pocket where they store their butts. I don't think
| you can blame the cities for citizen laziness? Seems more of a
| cultural problem.
| monkeydust wrote:
| A truly novel approach to labour shortage - more of this please!
| tantalor wrote:
| Not sure about "labor shortage". More like "wage shortage".
| monkeydust wrote:
| Not sure - feel we are heading towards full employment
| https://data.oecd.org/chart/6BaX
| jmugan wrote:
| I hope it doesn't make people even more likely to throw down
| butts, thinking "Ah, the crows will take care of it."
| troymc wrote:
| The squirrels will eat all the reward food.
| INTPenis wrote:
| This is more likely than one may think. Just look at the case
| of Rober vs. Gus.
| peatmoss wrote:
| If the crows are expecting a treat, my hunch is they'll
| defend... or eat the squirrels. A couple years back I watched a
| small murder of crows encircle, kill, and eat a very large rat.
| I was amazed, but apparently this is not uncommon and smallish
| mammals are very much on the menu for crows, who hunt in packs.
| eCa wrote:
| I would be (also) fine with them training the birds too poo on
| people that litter. I think that would be effective in reducing
| new litter. One issue is of course that you really don't want
| false positives..
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| I found the costs interesting: "The estimation for the cost of
| picking up cigarette butts today is around 80 ore or more per
| cigarette butt, some say 2 kronor." A Krona is about a US dime,
| so that's saying it's somewhere between 8 and 20 cents currently
| per butt. Call it ten cents. Then you'd need to collect a hundred
| butts to make ten dollars. The majority of humans on Earth would
| jump at that chance (assuming sufficient density of butts).
| sveme wrote:
| Maybe some deposit scheme would work. Two euros per package of
| cigarettes, get them back if you return your 20 cigarette
| butts. Bit disgusting, but I really despise all the cigarette
| butts even at the wildest locations.
| alkonaut wrote:
| If that cost is the cost of an employer then the _cost_ is at
| least twice the _pay_ the person doing the work would get. E.g.
| to run an operation where someone is paid $10 /h your cost is
| likely $20/h including insurance/clothes/transport and other
| overheads for the employer (Payroll taxes alone are usually
| around 50% on top of the hourly pay). So if the cost is a dime
| then a cigarette butt picker might make 5c which isn't as
| great. It's 200 butts/h for minimum wages.
| ekanes wrote:
| Sort of! Depends on where you live - it might not be much in
| Sweden.
| bayesian_horse wrote:
| Hard to find 100 buds in an hour.
|
| You'd need to house, feed etc the workers at first-world
| standards (or pay them enough) which makes up the current
| costs. Anything else is basically slave labor.
| thanatos519 wrote:
| USA: Hold my beer.
| Someone wrote:
| I expect that number is computed from the local hourly minimum
| wage, dividing it by the number of butts one can pick up in an
| hour.
|
| That indeed would be a good income for billions, if they
| wouldn't have to live in Sweden to do the job.
|
| Startup idea: small drones for picking up trash, operated
| remotely by humans living in some poor country.
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| I love the drone idea.
|
| If the median per capita income is still what it was in
| 2013[1], $1.5 / hr would beat it.
|
| [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/166211/worldwide-median-
| househo...
| kwhitefoot wrote:
| There is no legally defined minimum wage in Scandinavia.
| There are agreements between unions and employer
| organizations for the pay for classes of work. At least
| that's how it works here (Norway).
| jopsen wrote:
| The number is also interesting because one could simply apply a
| littering tax.
|
| Kind of how there (still) is a tax on empty CD media...
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| I wonder where that number comes from, we clean our streets
| with vehicles these days whether there are cigarette butts
| there or not.
| Jeff_Brown wrote:
| Streets are relatively easy to clean. I'm imagining the crows
| cleaning up the dirt under bushes, half-open drainpipes, etc.
| VMG wrote:
| https://archive.is/AYqzj
| aurizon wrote:
| Try chickens with cars...
|
| https://michaelhendrick.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/chickens...
| ris wrote:
| Can't wait until the crows start stealing cigarettes out of
| peoples hands or mouths.
| foxfluff wrote:
| Just don't hope for that or you might get flagged :D
| cpeterso wrote:
| And crows will start shoplifting cigarettes, too!
| ajuc wrote:
| A net positive :)
| bayesian_horse wrote:
| Crow-sourcing may have gone too far.
| anyfactor wrote:
| Even though I found these ideas to be more sensationalist than
| pragmatic but after watching that moneky drive that golf cat, I
| would say I am a believer. We have gone beyond giving direct
| insutructions to robots and gave them autonomous decision making
| abilities so, giving micro tasks and training concious animals
| seems equally possible.
| momenti wrote:
| These viral videos of an orangutan driving a golf cart seemed
| to be fake to me, possibly done with the help of a remote
| controller or automated steering.
| k__ wrote:
| If they can do this with pigeons, our cities are saved.
| lordnacho wrote:
| A billion butts? Do 10M Swedes really average 100 butts chucked
| into the environment?
|
| Great idea though if it works, win-win for crows and people.
| Maybe we'll get articles about clever crows that import butts
| from neighboring areas to get paid.
| onion2k wrote:
| _A billion butts? Do 10M Swedes really average 100 butts
| chucked into the environment?_
|
| I've known a few smokers who get through 40+ cigarettes _a
| day._ That 's almost 15,000 a year from one person. Obviously
| they're not throwing all those butts on the ground, but it's
| certainly believable that a huge number make it into the
| environment.
| anfogoat wrote:
| > _... win-win for crows and people._
|
| Until after conditioning generations of swedish crows to rely
| on this the company gets acquired, humans die off, or the
| robots get shelved for some other reason. They're going to
| suffer the fate of Google Reader users.
| vintermann wrote:
| In other words, be inconvenienced and get by with other
| methods?
|
| Seriously though, there's a winter flock of crows near where
| I live, and I wonder how they find enough to eat. There are
| thousands of them. But clearly they get by, and have enough
| energy to fly around a lot and have huge, noisy parliamentary
| debates.
| colechristensen wrote:
| People assume that the environment is much more sterile and
| empty in the winter than it really is.
| bayesian_horse wrote:
| Wouldn't be that clever. They only have one beak per bird, so
| travelling longer distances isn't worth the effort, or you'd
| have to pay them with more food. Crows can make these decisions
| and might decide there are easier ways to get food.
| Markoff wrote:
| It depends, if they could swallow them and then vomit on
| purpose then their capacity would be significantly increased
| over one beak capacity.
| bayesian_horse wrote:
| Birds can't do that. Also they'd get nicotine poisoning.
| That would be a risk even if they used their goiter. And it
| would taste terrible.
| shawabawa3 wrote:
| > A billion butts? Do 10M Swedes really average 100 butts
| chucked into the environment?
|
| it's per year.
|
| Roughly 10% of swedes smoke to some level. If we say half of
| them are only occasional smokers and the other half smoke on
| average 10/day, that's 1.8B/year
| ginko wrote:
| But surely Swedish smokers don't chuck 55% of their butts
| into the environment.
| ecdouvhr wrote:
| If they're anything like Finns, they probably do. Why get
| the ashtray in the car dirty when you can just throw it out
| the window?
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| The common Swede doesn't smoke in their car, they don't
| even have ashtrays anymore. We stop at a car-stop and
| smoke, then continue driving.
|
| I was suprised when backpacking Australia how "everyone"
| smoked in their car.
| grenoire wrote:
| You'd be surprised, have you ever been to Paris? Swede
| smokers are barely any different.
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| There are cultural differences, I put my smokes out and
| bin them, most people I know do too. Bin density is great
| in Sweden too, which definitely has an effect on how many
| butts are put into the environment.
| null_object wrote:
| > There are cultural differences, I put my smokes out and
| bin them
|
| There _always_ has to be a Swede saying stuff like this.
|
| Living in Stockholm I see THOUSANDS of cigarette butts
| lying around on the ground, all the time.
|
| Reminds me of when I was walking a local street behind
| some Swedes and an Englishman (some sort of business
| group) and the English guy stepped in some dogshit and
| all the Swedes were like "Oh you're so unlucky because
| EVERYONE in Sweden picks up their dog-dirt"
|
| To my eternal shame I didn't say anything. This street me
| and the kids call Bajslagsgatan (street is really called
| Roslagsgatan) - the approximate translation for our
| nickname would be DogShit Street.
| carlhjerpe wrote:
| > There always has to be a Swede saying stuff like this.
|
| That's quite racist, but since I said there are cultural
| differences between different places I guess so am I?
| There aren't many countries with as much socialism as
| Sweden and since it doesn't work without everyone doing
| their part we're proud to do it, it doesn't mean we're
| perfect but we try. I know no-one who wouldn't say
| throwing shit on the ground is bad.
|
| > Living in Stockholm I see THOUSANDS of cigarette butts
| lying around on the ground, all the time.
|
| My 1.2, 1.4 eyes must be broken then because I don't have
| the same experience. Outside of nightclubs and bars, yes.
| Near central hubs where people are in a hurry, yes. On
| average, no.
|
| > Reminds me of when I was walking a local street behind
| some Swedes and an Englishman (some sort of business
| group) and the English guy stepped in some dogshit and
| all the Swedes were like "Oh you're so unlucky because
| EVERYONE in Sweden picks up their dog-dirt"
|
| That'd be because most people do, "EVERYONE" should
| "NEVER" be interpreted as literally everyone, there are
| always people who deviate from the norm.
|
| > To my eternal shame I didn't say anything. This street
| me and the kids call Bajslagsgatan (street is really
| called Roslagsgatan) - the approximate translation for
| our nickname would be DogShit Street.
|
| You're telling me that on a street in the middle of
| Stockholm where there are no trees and the buildings are
| around 6 stories high people just let their dogs shit on
| the pavement and walk off? I call major bullshit. If
| you'd have said Vanadislunden which is nearby and has a
| dog-park, I'd believe you.
|
| EDIT: Apparently there are a few trees at the end of the
| street crossing over to Birger Jarlsgatan (Next to Norra
| Real), I guess every urban dogowner let their dogs shit
| there.
| scbrg wrote:
| That doesn't sound unlikely. I'd guess that most smoking
| occurs outdoors. Smoking is pretty much banned indoors
| except for in people's residences. Many smokers avoid
| smoking in their own homes due to the damage it does to
| walls and furniture. Ashtrays are uncommon outside.
| hydrok9 wrote:
| is there anywhere in the world where smokers don't behave
| like this? It's certainly the case in Canada
| NoboruWataya wrote:
| I can't speak for Sweden, and I don't know why it happens
| anywhere, but a lot of smokers _do_ inexplicably fail to
| see their throwing cigarette butts on the ground as
| littering. I know people who are not, generally speaking,
| assholes, and would never otherwise litter, but think
| nothing of doing this.
| dehrmann wrote:
| I normally think of Swedes and snus, not cigarettes.
| mandmandam wrote:
| Is there any good reason we can't simply mandate biodegradable
| cigarette filters?
| foxfluff wrote:
| I don't know if such a thing is feasible to build. The other
| problem with cigarette filters is that they fill up with toxic
| chemicals. And unfortunately most "biodegradable" things still
| take a long time to degrade. It does not solve the littering
| problem, if anything it seems as though it would encourage
| littering? I don't want litter outside.
| mandmandam wrote:
| Feasible to build? I smoked rollies with cardboard filters
| for a decade; each "built" myself.
|
| As for the toxic chemicals, I am also strongly in favor of
| mandating tobacco-only cigarettes; ones without the cancerous
| cocktail of additives designed to maximize addiction. That
| would not only take care of a massive chunk of toxic
| chemicals but have the very likely effect of making quitting
| easier for addicts.
|
| As for such a mandate "encouraging littering" - mitigating
| harm from littering doesn't encourage litter, that's like
| saying getting rid of plastic bags encourages littering of
| paper bags. It's such a weird point to even try and make.
| eriksjolund wrote:
| Interview in Swedish with Christian Gunther-Hanssen, founder of
| the company: https://www.msn.com/sv-
| se/nyheter/news/christian-l%C3%A4r-kr...
|
| The founder says:
|
| * It takes a little over a month to train a crow to pick
| cigarette butts
|
| * It takes one month to train a crow not to be afraid of the big
| box
|
| (in total 2 1/2 months)
|
| * Other crows will learn from the first crows that have been
| trained
| TrainedMonkey wrote:
| Is there any info on how this affects crow health? Nicotine is
| pretty toxic stuff, eating one cigarette will make a 20kg dog
| sick and LD50 is less than 10:
| https://portal.ct.gov/DPH/Health-Education-Management--Surve...
| eriksjolund wrote:
| In the interview the founder says that the next step would be
| to investigate how the health of the crows is impacted from
| picking cigarette butts. Such negative effect should then be
| weighed against any positive health effect that could be
| achieved by adding extra nutrients to the "reward food".
| Malnutrition can be a problem for crows eating too much junk
| food (from garbage).
| troyvit wrote:
| Man it's really coming home to me now. We're training
| animals to pick up the toxic remains of the toxic drugs
| that we produce because we just can't be bothered, and now
| we want to make sure they stay relatively healthy doing it.
| vcdimension wrote:
| Glad someone is finally doing this. An interesting machine
| learning project might be to develop a low cost cigarette butt
| recognizer for use with this device: http://thecrowbox.com/
| 1_player wrote:
| Then the crows will learn to distribute free cigarettes hoping
| people will pick up smoking and throw empty butts on the street.
|
| See the Cobra effect:
| https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive
| SilasX wrote:
| More likely, crows could game it by breaking up litter into
| smaller pieces to get more credit for the same work, or going
| after easier pickings that don't count as litter and don't need
| to be removed (rocks, twigs).
|
| Example of dolphins doing the first trick:
|
| >> Kelly [the dolphin] has taken this task one step further.
| When people drop paper into the water she hides it under a rock
| at the bottom of the pool. The next time a trainer passes, she
| goes down to the rock and tears off a piece of paper to give to
| the trainer. After a fish reward, she goes back down, tears off
| another piece of paper, gets another fish, and so on.
|
| https://www.theguardian.com/science/2003/jul/03/research.sci...
| [deleted]
| johanneskanybal wrote:
| "..we can teach crows to pick up cigarette butts but we can't
| teach people not to throw them on the ground.." :)
| Chris2048 wrote:
| We can, we have the technology _, we 're just not allowed to
| use it.
|
| _ a $5 wrench: https://xkcd.com/538/
| buu700 wrote:
| Are you saying that you want to hit people with a wrench
| until they stop littering? Is there a petition I can sign?
| INTPenis wrote:
| Sweden recently made it illegal to throw small pieces of litter
| like cigs on the ground. Of course hard to enforce but now
| police can actually act if they see it happen and perhaps make
| examples of some people.
|
| 800 SEK fine for cigs, chewing gum, snus for example.
|
| I used to smoke but I always just stayed around a bin, or made
| sure I had one near me when I was done. It's really not hard.
| I'd like to see double that fine.
| ajuc wrote:
| > I used to smoke but I always just stayed around a bin, or
| made sure I had one near me when I was done. It's really not
| hard. I'd like to see double that fine.
|
| The problem with that is that bins are usually where people
| spend a lot of time. For example bus stops or benches in a
| park. If you have asthma it sucks to wait for a bus when
| someone smokes near it.
| sandworm101 wrote:
| There is an old story about chewing gum in China. Back in
| the 90s they banned shewing gum in Tiananmen square, but
| the law was of course difficult to enforce. So they made
| the police scrape up any dropped gum. Enforcement then
| happened easily enough.
| pastrami_panda wrote:
| In Sweden it's also not allowed to smoke near bus stations
| or other forms of public communication (this includes train
| platforms etc.).
| ajuc wrote:
| Yeah in Poland too, but everybody ignores it :(
| foxfluff wrote:
| > Sweden recently made it illegal to throw small pieces of
| litter like cigs on the ground.
|
| Is that true? Then I'm surprised littering wasn't illegal
| before. (Or this this a case of "oh no, people are doing
| [something illegal]! let's make it illegal!"?)
| dzink wrote:
| This would be absolutely fantastic, especially because crows are
| social animals and learn from each-other's behavior (so your
| trained contingent would expand over time)! That said there is a
| small risk - if crows learn to do this second hand and don't
| necessarily put the buds in the box, they could start fires by
| dropping still lit buds that were left on concrete in the wrong,
| combustible, place - dry grass, paper garbage, etc.
| Markoff wrote:
| To be fair those estimates to pick up one butt are not very fair,
| since they are not giving any welfare benefits like social
| insurance to crows, no maternity leave etc.
|
| If crows unionize and start demanding maternity leave and other
| benefits they should be entitled to I could see how they would
| become more expensive than humans considering their reproduction
| rate. So in the end this seems more like exploiting workers
| unaware of their legal rights.
|
| And let's ignore the fact they mention only crows as if magpies
| were not allowed to participate or are they overqualified for
| this position?
|
| If any crow reads this contact me at 1-800-CROWHELP to help you
| claim all the benefits.
| rossdavidh wrote:
| Yeah, but it's gig work, so no benefits but you do get flexible
| hours.
| garblegarble wrote:
| This is a wonderful idea, but wouldn't it be simpler to increase
| the tax on cigarettes to pay for the cleanup that's currently an
| externality?
| henvic wrote:
| No. This is a bad idea just like any other that involves taxing
| more for the sake of... well... anything.
|
| People would just have even another incentive to buy even more
| smuggled cigarettes.
| polk wrote:
| Source?
|
| A quick Google suggests it does in fact work as intended
| https://i.redd.it/jrn155a2gf4z.png
| Majestic121 wrote:
| Taxing seems to work fine on other products, even including
| people shopping elsewhere, for example with soda :
| https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/Papers.cfm?abstract_id=3302335
|
| > We find the tax is passed through at an average rate of
| 97%, leading to a 34% price increase. Demand in the taxed
| area decreases by 46% in response to the tax. A large amount
| of cross-shopping to stores outside of Philadelphia offsets
| more than half of the reduction in sales in the city and
| decreases the net reduction in sales of taxed beverages to
| only 22%.
|
| You might be against taxing for ideological reason, or maybe
| you have other arguments than "it's a bad idea" and I'm open
| to hearing them, but so far it seems like a good idea.
| bbarnett wrote:
| In most places cigs are already taxed. I think it is 10000%
| here in Canada, eg 100x the cost from the manufacturer.
|
| The logic is to pay for the additional health care.
|
| If the same is happening in Sweden, then there is already
| plenty of tax. But I guess more could be added.
| hydrok9 wrote:
| Manitoba has some of the highest cig prices in the world.
| I think the cheapest packs of smokes you can get is
| around $16? (i don't smoke but some friends do)
| bayesian_horse wrote:
| That would make smokers feel entitled to leave their buds
| everywhere...
|
| The crow-sourcing approach also means continuous delivery of
| cigarette buds whereas Humans would only go through one area on
| a particular schedule.
| alkonaut wrote:
| I wouldn't say it's an either/or situation. There have been
| fines recently added for littering (including throwing
| cigarette butts). Tobacco tax increases is the Swedish national
| sport. I don't have a breakdown of what a pack costs today but
| a rough guess is that the price would be first 50% tobacco tax
| _and then_ 25% VAT on top of that. Don 't quote me on those
| figures though. It gives you a rough estimate.
| liquid_x wrote:
| That is on it's way too (link in swedish
| https://tobaksfakta.se/nedskrapningsavgift-foreslas-pa-
| cigar...)
| pfdietz wrote:
| Why spend more to clean it up if this approach is cheaper?
| garblegarble wrote:
| Yes indeed, although it seems like there must be drawbacks
| we're risking, for instance:
|
| 1. If this takes the crows out of the workforce, are we
| missing out something else they could be trained to do?
|
| 2. What are the risks the crows could start getting smart and
| stealing things that will be treated as litter, or stealing
| actual litter from bins? What if they learn they can harass
| people on the street for their "litter"? :)
|
| 3. Would it be better for the economy to give a humans jobs
| doing the cleanup vs supervising crow learning / reward?
|
| 4. Is it right to use crows like this? Are we impacting their
| ability as wild animals to survive independent of humans?
| lostlogin wrote:
| Why not do both? That may be what you are saying.
| pfdietz wrote:
| How you pay for the cleanup, and how you do the cleanup,
| are indeed separable concerns.
| billsmithaustin wrote:
| Previous discussion https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15486368
| T-A wrote:
| Uncredited prior art from 2018: https://www.crowdedcities.com/
| foxfluff wrote:
| I hope that once the crows have cleaned up the ground, they will
| also attack any smokers in public and take the cigs from their
| hands :P
| henvic wrote:
| Any chance we can jump to the second part? I'm worried about
| poor crows smoking.
| aurizon wrote:
| What about rowdy crowdies(murders) of drunken crows in bars,
| buying booze with cash from selling the dry butts to street
| people....coming to Swedish town near you soon...
| perihelions wrote:
| There's actually health benefits (I'm not paid by Big Tobacco
| I swear):
|
| https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2012.11952 ( _" City
| birds use cigarette butts to smoke out parasites"_)
| colechristensen wrote:
| Basically every plant chemical (flavor, drug) that humans
| are interested in is a defense against pests or infections.
| thesagan wrote:
| They'll make friends with smokers and increase the pleasure of
| smoking. :P
| antihero wrote:
| I hope they peck your eyes out.
| davmonk wrote:
| It would be great, but if this becomes real, it will probably
| take a lot more time before they accurately distinguish smoking
| from other activities.
| foreigner wrote:
| There was a crow in Austin that used to steal car keys from
| picnics. It was such a nuisance they had to capture it.
| bbarnett wrote:
| How.... strange.
|
| I have never in my life, ever, seen people leave car keys
| anywhere but their pocket, unless they are home.
|
| Is this normal in Texas? Maybe garb is the cause, jeans being
| more popular, thus a tighter fit, more desire to remove keys
| from pockets?
|
| I am very confused.
| rascul wrote:
| I see it often, especially when people have no pockets or
| have difficult to use pockets. In the mentioned case of a
| picnic, I could see someone leaving keys on the table for
| the duration instead of having them press uncomfortably
| against the leg while in the pocket. Years ago I did
| maintenance at a park, and from time to time I saw people
| do exactly that.
| bbarnett wrote:
| Interesting. Are your experiences in Texas too?
|
| I imagine local styles would contribute here. Also, just
| how many keys a person has.
|
| I have two keys. My FOB is round unless tge key is
| exposed, and a single house key. So number of keys is
| important too.
|
| But why would Texans have more keys? Are keys more
| important in Texas?
|
| My work "key" is a card. Are there fewer cards used for
| entry in Texas? Do Texans dislike tech and cards?
|
| Is there a law against cards vs keys in Texas.
|
| Oh man, I have so much research to do now. Damned crows!
| Geezus-42 wrote:
| There's no local style in Austin, I lived there. It's a
| bunch of college aged kids from all over, so there's a
| huge mix of styles though a lot of people do tend to end
| up adopting a modernized "hippie" style after living
| there a few years. Most grow out of it a few years later,
| some don't.
| rascul wrote:
| > Are your experiences in Texas too?
|
| Sorry I didn't specify, this was not in Texas.
| Hikikomori wrote:
| Womens clothes usually have less, smaller or even fake
| pockets.
| SilasX wrote:
| Which they compensate for by putting said keys in a
| purse, not out in the open.
| robert2020 wrote:
| Beach
| vanderZwan wrote:
| I wouldn't be surprised if crows were smart enough to be
| able to learn how to pick-pocket humans, to be honest
| lordnacho wrote:
| Why would you steal a car if you can fly?
| scrollaway wrote:
| Given that the crow was stealing multiple car keys, my
| assumption would be that it wasn't using the cars, but that
| this was more of a side hustle.
|
| Fun fact, for crows, every market is a black market!
| brudgers wrote:
| Related, Never Trust a Dog:
| https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta7tBkVu5oM
| efnx wrote:
| Considering the cultural importance of crows in Nordic culture I
| see this as an elegant solution that fits just right. Can't wait
| to see what funny things happen next.
| cmrdporcupine wrote:
| Isn't there a risk of nicotine, cigarette toxins, and human
| origin pathogens entering the crow's digestive system from them
| carrying these cigarette butts around in their beaks?
|
| Also a bunch of crows eating from common food sources seems like
| a way to spread disease among crow populations.
| ajuc wrote:
| It's not like crows aren't already picking through human trash
| in big flocks.
| pavon wrote:
| Agreed about the communal disease. For the toxins though, it
| is all about dose and I could see this program increasing
| that by at least an order of magnitude. No idea whether it
| would add up to significant levels though.
| Markoff wrote:
| A Swedish startup is training wild crows to pick up cigarette
| butts and other small pieces of litter. Their method will soon be
| ready for testing in the city of Sodertalje. The wild crows can
| be trained through a step-by-step learning process. The birds can
| learn to pick up litter by placing it in to a machine which
| dispenses food.
|
| "They're wild birds taking part on a voluntary basis," said
| Christian Gunther-Hanssen, founder of the company behind the
| method, Corvid Cleaning, to Swedish newswire TT.
|
| The company chose to use crows as they are the most intelligent
| bird, Gunther-Hanssen told TT.
|
| "They are easier to teach and there is also a higher chance of
| them learning from each other. At the same time, there's a lower
| risk of them mistakenly eating any rubbish," he said.
|
| Over a billion cigarette butts are left on Sweden's streets each
| year, and they represent 62 percent of all litter, according to
| the Keep Sweden Tidy Foundation.
|
| Now, the method is ready for large-scale testing. A potential
| pilot project is being investigated in Sodertalje municipality,
| where crows will help pick up litter.
|
| "It depends on whether we can find a place in Sodertalje which
| will work with the food dispenser, and then if there are
| opportunities for financing," Tomas Thernstrom, waste strategist
| at Sodertalje municipality, told TT.
|
| Similar schemes have been trialled in other countries in the
| past, such as this story from 2018 about crows helping to keep a
| French theme park clean and tidy.
|
| Gunther-Hanssen believes that the scheme could save the
| municipality at least 75% of costs involved with picking up
| cigarette butts, depending on how many the crows collect.
|
| "The estimation for the cost of picking up cigarette butts today
| is around 80 ore or more per cigarette butt, some say 2 kronor.
| If the crows pick up cigarette butts, this would maybe be 20 ore
| per cigarette butt. The saving for the municipality depends on
| how many cigarette butts the crows pick up".
|
| If the pilot project works in Sodertalje municipality, the hope
| is that the results could end in a permanent solution which could
| be used in the rest of the country to complement current cleaning
| solutions.
|
| If it's possible, they would like to get going this spring,
| Thernstrom said.
|
| "It would be interesting to see if this could work in other
| environments as well. Also from the perspective that we can teach
| crows to pick up cigarette butts but we can't teach people not to
| throw them on the ground. That's an interesting thought," said
| Thernstrom.
| jfengel wrote:
| I wonder if they'll only pick them off of the ground, or if
| they'll start going after cigarettes in people's mouths.
|
| Not that I'm objecting, mind you. Just curious.
| pavon wrote:
| If the food dispensers start catching fire I guess we'll know
| what happened :)
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