[HN Gopher] Ask HN: About to turn 30. Any advice on how to deal ...
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       Ask HN: About to turn 30. Any advice on how to deal with the
       depression?
        
       I feel immense regret for a lot of things that I didn't do in my
       20s. Always an academic person, I intentionally sacrificed many
       things to make progress in academia, and yet, it didn't always
       work.  Didn't go to parties; didn't date seriously; didn't enjoy
       most of my time; and didn't follow all my interests.  I've been a
       long time HN reader and I believe in the wisdom of the HN
       community. As someone who's still in academia (grad school), what
       do you think I should do? I feel like I owe myself a lot, and even
       though I'm in a relationship now, I can't stop thinking about the
       opportunities that I missed with girls when I was younger. I also
       think about dropping out of the PhD program and transitioning to
       the industry, maybe because I feel like I'll never be appreciated
       in academia and maybe because I feel like I need a new beginning.
        
       Author : behnamoh
       Score  : 8 points
       Date   : 2022-01-23 21:56 UTC (1 hours ago)
        
       | willcate wrote:
       | You are still quite young, and you have plenty of time to correct
       | those aspects of your life in which you feel deficient.
       | 
       | -- 61 yr-old guy
        
       | JSeymourATL wrote:
       | Remarkable research by Benjamin Hardy on the impact our
       | environment has on the body/mind/spirit.
       | 
       | Rotate your environments-getting out of your rut by literally
       | changing your physical surroundings throughout the day or week.
       | 
       | > https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/35604684-willpower-do...
        
       | arez wrote:
       | Marry, and you will regret it; don't marry, you will also regret
       | it; marry or don't marry, you will regret it either way. Laugh at
       | the world's foolishness, you will regret it; weep over it, you
       | will regret that too; laugh at the world's foolishness or weep
       | over it, you will regret both. Believe a woman, you will regret
       | it; believe her not, you will also regret it... Hang yourself,
       | you will regret it; do not hang yourself, and you will regret
       | that too; hang yourself or don't hang yourself, you'll regret it
       | either way; whether you hang yourself or do not hang yourself,
       | you will regret both -- Kirkegaard
        
       | AnimalMuppet wrote:
       | First, don't feel like you traded serious relationships for
       | academia. A lot of younger relationships don't work because the
       | people aren't grown up enough. (For me, I had to become less of
       | an arrogant jerk. That took a bit of time.) So don't kick
       | yourself, looking back and saying "I could have dated..." You
       | could have, and you might have enjoyed it, but put your mental
       | energy into chasing the relationship you're in now.
       | 
       | In fact, don't look back much. You want to learn from past
       | mistakes, sure. But if you've had a car accident, and as you
       | drive off you're staring in the rear-view mirror at the accident,
       | you're going to have another one, because your attention is on
       | the accident, not on your driving. Learn from the past, but put
       | most of your attention on what you're doing now.
       | 
       | You sound unfulfilled in academia. It often is unfulfilling. But
       | so is working in industry. Fulfillment isn't going to come from
       | either of those places; both are ultimately empty. But
       | fulfillment _might_ come from your relationship. Don 't sacrifice
       | that for either a degree or a job. (Personally, I'd say that even
       | a relationship isn't ultimately enough; real fulfillment comes
       | from knowing God.)
       | 
       | But you didn't actually say that you were unfulfilled, you said
       | that you'd never be _appreciated_. Do you need to be? You are
       | unlikely to be, either in academia or in industry. (Again,
       | though, you might be in your relationship.)
       | 
       | Oh, and in your title you said "depression". You're in grad
       | school. It's _amazing_ how high a percentage of grad students
       | suffer from depression - like, 60+%. The depression isn 't
       | necessarily telling you that there's something wrong with you, or
       | that you don't belong in academia. It's telling you that there's
       | something fundamentally wrong with grad school. (Which, if you
       | can't change it, may be telling you that academia isn't where you
       | should be.)
       | 
       | No real conclusions, just some thoughts that you may or may not
       | find useful...
        
       | mettamage wrote:
       | Hey, I feel vaguely similar, although on a much milder basis. I
       | go from starry eyed to quite a bit of regret and contempt. I am
       | not happy with that, and I am working on it, at the same time it
       | is what it is. I used to be simply starry eyed.
       | 
       | While I am no therapist, I know a thing or two about sacrifice,
       | perhaps less than you, but enough to perhaps have a fun (or
       | interesting/stimulating) chat about it.
       | 
       | If you're up for a Google Meet, feel free to email me (see my
       | profile).
        
       | thakoppno wrote:
       | Go outside more. Exercise to exhaustion. Stop feeding negative
       | thought patterns. Have fun.
        
       | deanmoriarty wrote:
       | In one year you could revolutionize your life, if you really
       | wanted it. Based on your comment this could be a reasonable 12
       | months plan:
       | 
       | - Get out of academia
       | 
       | - Get a 6 figure paying job in the industry
       | 
       | - Get out of your current relationship
       | 
       | - Rent a one bedroom apartment in a major city close to work and
       | go on binge dating until the feeling of regret will be gone
       | 
       | It is likely that after taking all these steps you'd not be
       | feeling depressed anymore, and life would have brought you in
       | some interesting places.
       | 
       | I shared similar emotions in regards to dating in my mid 20s
       | (specifically my girlfriend at the time had significantly more
       | dating experience than me and that made me feel utterly
       | inferior), so I did exactly that. I broke up with her, moved from
       | the suburbs to a major city, and after casually dating ~50 women
       | over the course of the following 4 years, I finally settled with
       | my current partner and couldn't be happier, we've been together 5
       | years and going strong. On top of that I have fun memories of my
       | previous dating phase, which did a lot to boost my self
       | confidence and tame any "missed out" feelings.
        
       | coldtea wrote:
       | > _I feel like I owe myself a lot, and even though I 'm in a
       | relationship now, I can't stop thinking about the opportunities
       | that I missed with girls when I was younger._
       | 
       | If you love the someone you're with, you don't care about other
       | opportunities. What would be the point? Some special organs that
       | another person doesn't have? Keeping score of how many times
       | you've got laid?
       | 
       | On the other hand, if you don't love someone, then it doesn't
       | really matter if you get other opportunities - they're just empty
       | fun for an hour or so but feeling empty afterwards.
       | 
       | Sure, it's cool to be a "player" for a little while in your late
       | teens/early 20s, but it gets boring soon, just as the fun with
       | alcohol and partying and many other things. Most of the people
       | you know that 'did' go to parties and such, are dead bored of
       | them at this age.
       | 
       | Also, is all this a real desire - things you really want to do
       | today, or merely a response to a fear of having missed out? These
       | two cases are not the same.
       | 
       | Lastly, you're just about to turn 30. You are still young, and
       | can do anything you like to turn your life around. Heck, even
       | someone at 40 or 50 could...
       | 
       | As for "transitioning to the industry" it's probably not a bad
       | idea. Modern academia sucks, and unless you've made it somehow,
       | it can be even more work and less pay than the industry. Heck,
       | people make money even as nomads working remotely (and I'm not
       | talking nomads making money by selling the nomad lifestyle: I
       | mean people really working remotely from some city in Thailand
       | and co, without vlogging about it). Plus, the modern industry (if
       | we're talking IT) is hiring...
        
         | grammarnazzzi wrote:
         | > If you love the someone you're with, you don't care about
         | other opportunities. What would be the point? Some special
         | organs that another person doesn't have?
         | 
         | To gain the experience necessary to know when your significant
         | other is behaving in ways that are exceptional. Everything is
         | normal until then
         | 
         | This is how you develop the emotional intellegence to both
         | appeciate them long-term and the wherewithal to deal with
         | abuse.
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | You can get that from having and studying regular
           | relationships with people, you don't need to f... them too...
        
       | grammarnazzzi wrote:
       | Learn from it. Otherwise you're going to experience these same
       | regrets when you're about to turn 40, 50, 60, 70, ...
       | 
       | Figure out your goals/principles/mission today. Then make that
       | happen now.
       | 
       | There's never going to be a right time to do anything other than
       | now. Because you're never going to be any younger.
        
       | caffeine wrote:
       | > I also think about dropping out of the PhD program and
       | transitioning to the industry
       | 
       | Yes, do this. It's a good start towards being happier. Academia
       | is largely thankless BS and if you don't already love it then you
       | probably won't ever.
       | 
       | Get yourself healthy, paid, entertained, etc. first - before you
       | start running around trying to change the world and do meaningful
       | stuff.
       | 
       | You won't be of much use to anyone else until you've got yourself
       | squared away.
        
       | thanatos519 wrote:
       | I think you should do LSD.
       | 
       | "It is never too late to be what you might have been." -- George
       | Eliot
        
         | throwawaynay wrote:
         | Came here to say this. Or another psychedelic like ketamine or
         | shrooms.
         | 
         | Tripping once or twice every 1-3 months had a huge impact on my
         | wellbeing, it completely changed my perspective on a lot of
         | stuff and made me better in a lot of ways.
         | 
         | I was doing LSD pretty regularly before the pandemic and it was
         | honestly the best period of my life, then I'll admit it really
         | went downhill after the lockdowns.
         | 
         | But it can really help assuming that a global catastrophe
         | doesn't get in the way (again).
        
           | bagacrap wrote:
           | how did the pandemic interfere with your lad routine
        
       | rdtwo wrote:
       | Quit academia, it's a black hole that will consume you and never
       | reward you. Industry pays better and gives you more options. You
       | are wasting 100s of thousand in opportunity costs by staying. You
       | probably won't discover anything great and even if you do you
       | won't get anything for it. Use your talent to make money use your
       | money to live life.
        
       | schoudha wrote:
       | You're 30, you have your whole life ahead of you and you greatest
       | achievements are likely going to come from work you haven't even
       | thought of yet.
       | 
       | Identify what you truly enjoy, people you like to be with and set
       | goals you want to aspire to. Make sure you spend your next 10
       | years focused on those things.
        
       | antman wrote:
       | You are setting your expectations on marketed social norms which
       | are pretty much meaningless. Who cares if you didn't go to
       | parties? Being mature earlier is a bliss not a curse. Anyway
       | check these out and good luck:
       | 
       | https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLG1WzYaHQeh6LV3eFcdxR...
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdKM8n7mwq0&list=PLG1WzYaHQe...
        
         | leoh wrote:
         | > You are setting your expectations on marketed social norms
         | which are pretty much meaningless.
         | 
         | Maybe OP is trying to say they had a need for freedom and joy,
         | which I do not doubt OP did not experience. Are those needs
         | merely marketed social norms?
        
           | syntheweave wrote:
           | It's a norms vs needs distinction.
           | 
           | When you're a baby you don't even know that you have to sleep
           | to not feel tired, or eat to not feel hungry. You learn
           | pretty quickly but at first you're just always upset that you
           | feel these things and cry about it, so your parents(if they
           | are any good) will try to normalize bedtimes and mealtimes to
           | speed along the concept.
           | 
           | It's not exactly different for the twenty-something going on
           | thirty, just so much more complex that the presented norms
           | never really fit anyone. Things like what ideas are worth
           | studying, what to look for in a relationship, what the "good
           | life" is - those are quite subtle concepts.
        
           | coldtea wrote:
           | Yes, even "freedom and joy" are marketed social norms.
           | Especially in the form mentioned by the OP, and in the modern
           | environment, where the imperative is to "have fun" and be
           | like the people in aspirational ads.
        
       | mkl95 wrote:
       | > I also think about dropping out of the PhD program and
       | transitioning to the industry, maybe because I feel like I'll
       | never be appreciated in academia and maybe because I feel like I
       | need a new beginning.
       | 
       | In my years in the industry, I have worked with several people
       | who had finished their PhDs. Their PhD was only useful for one of
       | them in one occasion, when our employer needed someone with a PhD
       | to receive some state grant. Other than that, we solve the same
       | problems with similar degrees of success. The only difference is
       | that they are significantly older.
        
       | gtsop wrote:
       | Answering the question in the title is hard for me, but I can
       | give you a side tip on this:
       | 
       | > I feel immense regret for a lot of things that I didn't do in
       | my 20s.
       | 
       | First, it is natural to feel this way. It means you appreciate
       | yourself and your time. Now, the past is past. No matter how much
       | you think about what you did or didn't do, nothing will change
       | your "lost time". The only thing you can change is your future,
       | try to make better decissions using the wisdom you have gained.
       | 
       | Finally, if you fail to make the most out of your years to come,
       | don't beat yourself. Failure is the basis for success. We all
       | fail and we use the failures to succeed further down the road.
       | 
       | Also, keep a few close friends near you and love them :)
        
       | digisign wrote:
       | The number thirty seems like a big deal at the time. In hindsight
       | it was a minor speedbump not much different than any other
       | birthday. Thirties can be one of the most enjoyable times in
       | life, with an open mind.
        
       | theodric wrote:
       | 39.5 here: you're young. You might not believe it, but you
       | actually are. Plenty of time to course-correct or even start
       | over. Rather than finding coping mechanisms for the crippling
       | depression of having arrived at an advanced age without
       | accomplishment, go fix what you see as the problem(s) while
       | you're still young enough to benefit maximally from the
       | improvement.
        
       | djenendik wrote:
       | Don't beat yourself up. You can take a leave of absence or
       | internship before completely dropping out. Take some time to try
       | those things you think you missed out on. If after that, you may
       | or may notfeel like returning to grad school. Some decisions take
       | time and space to make.
        
       | bagacrap wrote:
       | dating got a lot more successful for me after I turned 30 so
       | don't feel bad about missing out. Rather, start focusing on it
       | now because you have some leveling up to do.
        
       | ramoz wrote:
       | I turn 30 in the summer. I feel immense regret for reasons I
       | can't really explain. I've been in the military (I felt like I
       | belonged in the military more than any other place in life), I've
       | had great jobs, made a lot of money, own a condo, am as "set" as
       | I possibly could be at current job, have the ability to jump to
       | other jobs.
       | 
       | Relationships haven't been great, but also never really a problem
       | or something I've overly desired. I do value some really close
       | friends I've made through dating.
       | 
       | I don't feel free.
        
         | ScottBurson wrote:
         | Freedom comes from within. Sure, external forces can take it
         | away. But even if you're not externally constrained, you can be
         | internally so.
         | 
         | The military, I've heard, tries to instill in you a sense of
         | duty. Perhaps you need to let go of that. Handle your
         | legitimate responsibilities, of course, but don't let other
         | people dump duties on you -- including your parents and others
         | in your past. Get in touch with what _you_ want in life.
        
         | rdtwo wrote:
         | If you live in the USA you probably never will be. Without a
         | social safety net you are never free to explore and fail
         | because it's a long way down and the fall will maim you if it
         | doesn't kill.
        
       | syntheweave wrote:
       | Industry is not a bad idea. But most crucially, the thing you
       | feel is an identity slipping away. Academia has priesthoods, and
       | so does industry. When you fall out of the fold, it can be a hard
       | crash. People who can't find a fit tend towards taking odd jobs
       | or a van down by the river. That's the real thing driving
       | discontent at 30 - "I'm not making it, maybe I'm all washed up."
       | But you are most likely done with priesthoods. Your second act
       | looks different from your first.
       | 
       | Studying something of genuine interest is a crucial first step.
       | It may be apparently trivial, in which case you call it "art". It
       | may be of obvious import, and then it is "philosophy". The thing
       | you study and the thing that brings in money may coincide, and
       | that will make for a contented life for a time. But there will be
       | little public indication that you might be succeeding at the
       | personal journey. You must create your own rubrics and principles
       | of operation.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | olegious wrote:
       | Some may say I "wasted" my 20s- changing majors, dropping out of
       | school, going back, trying 3 different careers, multiple
       | countries. When I turned 30, I was in deep debt (student loans +
       | credit cards), a year or so into my 4th career and a few years
       | into a marriage that I couldn't admit wasn't going to work out.
       | Some of my friends were years into their careers, financially
       | successful, some already had kids, I felt like I was woefully
       | behind and would never catch up.
       | 
       | Fast forward and by my late 30s I'm debt free, make more money
       | that I ever imagined, in a wonderful 2nd marriage, my 4th career
       | turned out to be perfect for me and everything is on track. A lot
       | can change in a few years, if things are not working now, doesn't
       | mean they won't work in the future. Explore, learn about yourself
       | and others, take calculated risks and keep going.
        
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