[HN Gopher] A field fixes itself: the applied turn in economics
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       A field fixes itself: the applied turn in economics
        
       Author : INGELRII
       Score  : 41 points
       Date   : 2022-01-23 15:37 UTC (7 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.newthingsunderthesun.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.newthingsunderthesun.com)
        
       | Mizza wrote:
       | Modern calipers revolutionizing the field of phrenology.
        
         | carapace wrote:
         | LOL! It's hilarious that economists are talking about
         | "empirical" economics. What were they doing before this?
         | "Unempirical" economics?
         | 
         | Seriously though, economics seems (has seemed) little better
         | than numerology to me, so I'm glad to see the field start to
         | graduate from the alchemical to the chemical stage of
         | knowledge. Good for them.
        
           | AtlasBarfed wrote:
           | I like to condemn economics as only being able to predict
           | value based on a very limited set of things that can be
           | measured/tested.
           | 
           | The strange thing is, even with "measurements" like
           | CO2/global warming so clearly pointing to armageddon in a few
           | generations, the field of economics is STILL unable to
           | quantify such impacts on models, or produce effective
           | economic pricing measures.
           | 
           | Of course, because in addition to being only a crude
           | "science" that basically reduces to bad accounting practice
           | on a massive scale, economics is also dressed up as a
           | "crystal ball science" that the oligarchical powers can trot
           | out to justify their positions and current structure of
           | monetary distribution as a priori destiny.
           | 
           | So it is ALSO politically corrupt, not just computationally
           | bankrupt.
           | 
           | The reality is of course that there is plenty of money to
           | deal with most of our massive structural problems. But who
           | owns that money? The rich who will rather see the world
           | destroyed than give it up.
        
       | ContrarianBrit wrote:
       | Very interesting - thanks
        
       | huitzitziltzin wrote:
       | Nice piece which to me reads as being an accurate account of the
       | recent history of the field (as far as I know it).
       | 
       | Short summary: 90% of the work that is taken seriously in
       | economics is empirical. Moreover, we only care about cases where
       | causal inference is possible and those are the papers that get
       | published. (If your first complaint about a published piece in an
       | economics journal is "correlation does nor imply causation," we
       | know that too and the kind of work which can fall for that
       | criticism is only rarely and accidentally going to make it
       | through the refereeing process.)
       | 
       | Far better than a similar, much less informed piece from Aeon
       | which was shared here a few days ago...
        
         | ackbar03 wrote:
         | How do you prove causation instead of correlation exactly?
        
           | jldugger wrote:
           | Causal inference, a field I've been studying for a few
           | months, is often touted as achieving this. That's not quite
           | true -- the causes do not live in the data.
           | 
           | What causal inference does is estimate the parameters of a
           | given causal model, and does so by applying algorithms on the
           | model to determine which variables to control for. Once the
           | researcher to supply directions of causality, you can use the
           | data to validate the model, or ask questions about it that
           | you already know the answer to as a cross check. But there
           | can be multiple valid models, and the data alone cannot help
           | you select the "right" one. Worse, sometimes (often?)
           | validating the "right" model requires data you do not have
           | access to. But you don't need to do the experiment to find
           | that out at least!
           | 
           | Underlying all this appears to be Bayesian methods. Which
           | makes sense as you are often seeking answers to conditional
           | probabilities, Bayes is good for that.
        
           | NeutralForest wrote:
           | There is a whole subfield dedicated to the question called
           | causal inference. You can read something like the "causal
           | inference : the mixtape" https://mixtape.scunning.com/
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | INGELRII wrote:
           | 1. Experiments, and natural experiments
           | 
           | 2. causal discovery methods + generic assumptions
           | 
           | Economists are really putting effort into sound methodology.
        
           | huitzitziltzin wrote:
           | First thing: all claims to have proved a causal relationship
           | are relative to a set of assumptions which may or may not be
           | satisfied (even in experimental sciences).
           | 
           | Taking the experiment as an ideal we cannot reach, there are
           | many settings where there is useful variation in the data
           | which can approximate the random assignment to treatment
           | which is the essence of experiments.
           | 
           | Some canonical research designs which can be used here
           | include differences in differences, regression discontinuity,
           | synthetic control methods, or instrumental variables methods.
           | They are differently appropriate to different settings but
           | permit causal claims to be made. These methods are widely
           | used in contemporary empirical economics (indeed this is a
           | nearly exhaustive list of methods used in applied micro!).
           | 
           | Useful, accessible references here include Angrist and
           | Pischke, "mostly harmless econometrics," or "causal inference
           | the mixtape" by a guy at Baylor whose name I'm forgetting,
           | and the very recent "the effect" by Huntington-Klein, which I
           | have not yet read.
           | 
           | Other slightly more exotic models are used in (for example)
           | industrial organization which still permit causal claims to
           | be made about the effects of increasing prices or changing
           | product features on demand for a product or set of products.
        
         | civilized wrote:
         | I think there is sometimes too much confidence placed in these
         | results (no different than any other empirical field that makes
         | heavy use of statistics and significance testing). But it's
         | still a positive direction, unquestionably.
        
           | huitzitziltzin wrote:
           | Fair point and I completely agree with you. We don't yet have
           | a great answer on "researcher degrees of freedom" for example
           | (ie what specification is run, which one is reported).
           | 
           | Definitely better than what came before and surely in another
           | 30 years empirical standards will be even higher!
        
         | NeutralForest wrote:
         | I mean, Aeon is pretty bad
        
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