[HN Gopher] The Rise and Fall of 'Social Bot' Research (2021)
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The Rise and Fall of 'Social Bot' Research (2021)
        
       Author : mike_hearn
       Score  : 75 points
       Date   : 2022-01-23 14:43 UTC (8 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (papers.ssrn.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (papers.ssrn.com)
        
       | pphysch wrote:
       | The entire "online manipulation" research field is deeply
       | compromised and unserious. Because there are _enormous_ political
       | ramifications to it. You can 't just come out with a rigorous &
       | factual study of the "Russiagate" hoax or Julian Assange
       | defamation campaign. That would be career suicide if it ended up
       | anywhere but a right-wing or Russian blog.
       | 
       | One of the most glaring flaws of the research is the lack of
       | effort put into verifying attribution. Some suspicious accounts
       | are pushing barely-literate propaganda in support of Country A?
       | Case closed: it's a propaganda campaign by the government of
       | Country A. These "studies" virtually never test whether the
       | suspicious behavior was orchestrated by an _enemy_ of Country A
       | to generate bad press, that is, propaganda _against_ Country A.
       | 
       | This still happens even after the Vault 7 leaks revealed that the
       | CIA actively plants "false flag" strings in Iranian, Russian,
       | Chinese languages within CIA malware.
        
         | staiz wrote:
         | There is also the economic remifications, Facebook, Google,
         | Amazon, MS, All depend upon quantity of Users and quantity of
         | Users time. If there is no distinction between bots and real
         | users, then bots directly increase thier revenue.
        
           | pphysch wrote:
           | There is a threshold where platform manipulation can destroy
           | the value of the platform, so these companies definitely have
           | an interest in keeping it in check.
        
       | fourthark wrote:
       | The word seems to be used as an insult equivalent to "NPC".
        
         | Mizza wrote:
         | I think it's funny how the language of the terminally online
         | political partisans is mirrored. NPC/Russian Bot, SJW/Chud,
         | Libtard/Nazi, Snowflake/Fragile, etc.. round and round it goes.
        
           | hunterb123 wrote:
           | Those terms have differing reasons to why they are said, they
           | aren't mirrored, just grouped.
           | 
           | They don't really have to be partisan terms either. Some are
           | dangerous and dehumanize the other side, not just insult.
           | Some are just stupid. Some are rude but accurate.
           | 
           | -
           | 
           | NPC = Person who isn't thinking for themselves, follows the
           | group mindlessly.
           | 
           | Russian Bot = Term used to dehumanize and attribute real
           | dissent to a disinformation campaign.
           | 
           | SJW = Social justice warrior. An overly PC person who goes on
           | social media cancel culture brigades in the name of fixing
           | social injustices.
           | 
           | Chud = Foreign or strange in Slavic or slang for
           | "unattractive"? Seems to be an insult at appearance, not
           | intelligence.
           | 
           | Libtard = An insult at liberals/leftists directed at their
           | mental capability.
           | 
           | Nazi = Term used to dehumanize. Usually implies the person is
           | racist.
           | 
           | Snowflake = Someone who gets offended easily
           | 
           | Fragile = Never heard this one used, usage is older than
           | snowflake, maybe just used now because one side doesn't want
           | to use the same term?
        
             | sincerely wrote:
             | Chud came from the movie
             | (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C.H.U.D. ), it entered the
             | political "discourse" through the Chapo Trap House and
             | became a generic word liberals use for conservatives/trump
             | supporters
        
               | hunterb123 wrote:
               | Interesting, that is what urban dictionary listed
               | (C.H.U.D. definition). From that movie reference it still
               | just seems like a general insult to appearance / culture
               | (basement dweller). Unless there is more to how Chapo
               | Trap House used it..
        
             | whatshisface wrote:
             | > _Russian Bot = Term used to dehumanize and attribute real
             | dissent to a disinformation campaign._
             | 
             | I'm gathering from the context of the thread that this is
             | used to describe real people, not actual bot accounts.
             | After all, who would tweet at a spam bot?
        
               | hunterb123 wrote:
               | I was talking about general usage of those terms, not
               | specific to this thread.
        
             | lamontcg wrote:
             | NPC is used to dehumanize real dissent. I don't see how
             | calling someone an NPC isn't calling them a bot since both
             | are saying that your opinions were programmed by someone
             | else and that your opinions can be dismissed.
             | 
             | Your characterization says more about which side of the
             | debate you're on.
        
               | hunterb123 wrote:
               | NPC could be used whichever side you are on, it's an
               | insult for someone that follows group think.
               | 
               | Russian bot can only be used on the side that uses Russia
               | as a scapegoat for any political event.
               | 
               | When you call someone an NPC you are saying they aren't
               | thinking for themselves, but the issue isn't questioned
               | as foreign propaganda, just as parroting talking points
               | without thinking.
               | 
               | When you call someone a Russian bot, you are saying
               | either that's not a real person or what they are saying
               | is Russian propaganda.
        
           | JasonFruit wrote:
           | Those names are reflective of various ways you can dismiss
           | people without considering their positions -- or more
           | charitably, categorize and dismiss people espousing positions
           | you've already considered and dismissed. It shows that those
           | techniques are non-ideological, independent of the views of
           | the person employing them. Use of language like that of a
           | sign that if you're looking for substantive discussion of
           | ideas, you're in the wrong place.
        
       | iratewizard wrote:
       | The CIA used white papers during the Cold War for psyops against
       | adversarial nations. This is just one of many examples to show
       | that feds are doing it domestically as well.
        
         | WpgRubyDev wrote:
         | No, quite the opposite. The contention that 'psyops' were being
         | conducted using bots is now in serious doubt because of this
         | new research.
         | 
         | And far from such 'psyops' being the act of the American
         | federal government, as you suggest, instead it was argued that
         | the _Russian_ government was responsible.
         | 
         | And the accusation that there was collusion with Russians to
         | achieve this was the central driving force behind the
         | impeachment and near-removal of the U.S. president.
         | 
         | It's completely irrelevant and nonsensical to respond to this
         | research by claiming it proves "the feds" are "doing psyops"
         | domestically.
        
           | radarsat1 wrote:
           | I thought the accusations of collusion were more about one-
           | sided release of information from hacked servers? and that
           | the bots accusation (which is not disproved here afaict?) was
           | more directed at the russians _in addition_ to the hacking
           | accusations. but i always understood that the collusion was
           | strictly about the hacking. correct me if i'm wrong.
        
           | iratewizard wrote:
           | So first the evil Russian government (with a gdp smaller than
           | several US states) was behind the bots that were reported by
           | white papers funded domestically. Now that the bots are seen
           | as fake, it was the evil Russians again that faked the
           | domestically funded reports! It's amazing how competent their
           | government is at espionage and how grossly incompetent ours
           | is on every level, according to you.
        
       | r721 wrote:
       | Twitter thread from author:
       | https://twitter.com/FlorianGallwitz/status/13761673088345292...
        
       | Wronnay wrote:
       | The author also made a talk about it:
       | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qwiss4qWuTs
       | 
       | May be easier to consume than reading a scientific paper...
        
         | m4lvin wrote:
         | https://media.ccc.de/v/rc3-2021-chaoszone-297-the-rise-and-f...
         | 
         | and there you can watch it without tracking :-)
        
       | dr_dshiv wrote:
       | I remember the social bots on MySpace. It turns out that it is
       | easy to pass the Turing Test when you have big boobs.
       | 
       | Although... wasn't the original Turing test actually involving
       | whether a man would beat a bot in pretending to be a woman?
       | 
       | Edit: yes, it was about gender detection:
       | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test#:~:text=The%20Tu....
        
       | lmeyerov wrote:
       | This article is good to see but frustrating as similarly weak in
       | execution due to cherry picking and selection bias. People will
       | mistake the review's sloppiness and issues with some papers with
       | "social bots don't exist and detection is mostly false
       | positives". It's not like Facebook is spending ~$1B every year
       | here to ban 0 accounts.
       | 
       | - Manipulated accounts are prevalent: People sell manipulation
       | tools, and once you identify the tool fingerprints, you can often
       | precisely identify the accounts using them. For example, one of
       | our team members published on NBC etc on a 'cyborg' (mixed use)
       | tool used by Qanon + Trump's social media manager which,
       | initially, self-identified itself via a unique user agent tag.
       | Those resulted in high volume same-text tweets & fake retweets as
       | they'd blast out via members who gave personal account access,
       | which is huge for scales like MAGA Twitter. We have plenty of
       | examples like this, and reading the paper gives a weasel-worded
       | impression that it's not happening.
       | 
       | - The paper explicitly did not check accounts Twitter already
       | removed for likewise suspicion of being bots. Note that Twitter
       | is generally slower and and more conservative here than a
       | researcher -- they have money at stake that really likes bots --
       | so when even Twitter agrees it's a TOS-abusing bot, that's
       | generally a good sign. Ex: One of our collaborators was reporting
       | on Saudi bots, and it took a year for Twitter to take them down,
       | namely around the time Twitter acknowledged the Saudi gov had
       | corrupted one of their employees and they announced a sweep.
       | Skipping those accounts for validation is massive selection bias.
       | Bans take awhile, and frustratingly generally too late as only
       | well after the accounts are used for social media manipulation.
       | But looking at old papers and ignoring the confirmed findings and
       | then claiming no bots is bad science.
       | 
       | - The original botometer paper was years ago, which matched a
       | different era in Twitter use, Twitter moderation, and attacker
       | patterns. The paper seems similar to evaluating a HFT algorithm
       | from 10 years ago in the current stock market, and worse, with
       | bad settings, and being surprised they lost money. You wouldnt
       | invest your savings that way. Likewise, who would use a 5yr old
       | virus scanner? It's a more boring paper when you phrase it this
       | way.
       | 
       | There are good takeaways from this paper for folks in the field,
       | but they give a quite warped impression if you don't have the
       | context for these
       | 
       | Ex: Simple rules and features like in botometer can work, but
       | settings matter (drift, ...)
       | 
       | Ex: While we and others are moving to graph neural networks and
       | other continuing advances in account/event analytics, we need to
       | make sure these tools are accessible else social scientists will
       | be stuck with old algorithms, crufty implementations, and
       | confusing settings. (GNNs are super exciting in general, see our
       | recent review on industry adoption of more modern graph
       | intelligence w/ gradientflow .)
       | 
       | Ex: Twitter's rules for accessing+ publishing data (... you
       | largely can't) hurts infodemic research, forcing deep hacks in
       | what should have been a simpler reproduction study like this
       | 
       | Ex: Based on reception and writing of this paper, the term bots
       | may be confusing the public on what social media manipulation
       | looks like
       | 
       | Edit: They could have used clean methodology and written a paper
       | "The Botometer tool is increasingly unreliable; X% of papers
       | relying on it are likely incorrect". I think they should, because
       | it's probably higher than people suspect. But it's not what they
       | did, so I wouldn't conclude much from it until they do. The
       | (mis)reproduction study is not even close to the standards my
       | (peer-reviewed) peers regularly work for.
        
         | pessimizer wrote:
         | > Those resulted in high volume same-text tweets & fake
         | retweets as they'd blast out via members who gave personal
         | account access, which is huge for scales like MAGA Twitter.
         | 
         | But these are not bots, this is "huge" maga twitter
         | coordinating messaging that they all individually support.
        
           | lmeyerov wrote:
           | No, during the time windows of media manipulations, the
           | accounts are controlled by the puppet master, not the account
           | owner. The puppet master picks a message and a rolling
           | schedule, and as in a malware botnet, the bot-side software
           | is listening and autoresponds. You can google the tool's UI
           | panels & instructions, it's pretty clear. Funny enough, you
           | may have heard of Roger Stone, and with all of the Trump
           | indictments and later QAnon scrutiny, some of the details we
           | hadn't known at the time here came out.
           | 
           | Hence why I wrote 'cyborg': The accounts are bots during the
           | inauthentic media manipulation, and human otherwise. Twitter
           | is uncomfortable banning these accounts despite TOS
           | violations because they know these are sellable eyeballs.
           | Pretty insidious!
           | 
           | Where you are right is there is a slippery slope. A more
           | benign and hypothetical version would be where the user is
           | emailed text to retweet, and in support, people manually do
           | something. That's a grassroots campaign by people. A dark
           | variant happens in reality here: It's quite common for
           | misinformers to build up their twitter feed into a misinfo
           | parallel universe, and with Twitter happily auto-generating a
           | wall full of misinfo recommendations for them, to then
           | like/retweet each in support without actually reading any.
        
       | jszymborski wrote:
       | I will say a lot of the examples of false-positives for bots are
       | true-negatives for BotSentinel. Many of the handles are
       | deactivated or suspended, but here are some examples of some live
       | ones.
       | 
       | - @ErikLuczak https://botsentinel.com/profile/1077274080984862720
       | 
       | - @pdmonna https://botsentinel.com/profile/1200756272942829575
       | 
       | - @CTO1ChipNagel https://botsentinel.com/profile/1411284846
       | 
       | Some accounts get a "disruptive" score
       | 
       | - @cj_panirman https://botsentinel.com/profile/719017787805577220
       | 
       | But another question is, do we care if these bots are _actually_
       | automated, or whether they are individuals that behave like them.
       | Manually tweeting a single, political hashtag 854 times in a six
       | day period is a spammer, regardless if they are a human. The
       | result is little different than if they had programmed a bot to
       | do so. Another was spamming using an IFTT trigger.
       | 
       | If I was on the twitter team, I'd have no problem if that person
       | was flagged as a bot.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | autopilot23 wrote:
       | Great paper, thanks for your effort!
        
       | taubek wrote:
       | So there are no bots on Twitter?
        
       | JohnHaugeland wrote:
       | This paper is deeply flawed.
       | 
       | It basically says "we rebuked one study, therefore bots aren't
       | real."
       | 
       | Anyone who has been on Reddit for the last year has seen
       | government run botnets posting spintext by the hundreds.
       | 
       | Thinking there are no bots is wildly naive
        
         | freebreakfast wrote:
         | The paper does not claim "bots aren't real." It claims:
         | 
         | > The field of "social bot" research is fundamentally flawed.
         | While "social bot" researchers have received an enormous amount
         | of public attention, their methods are highly dubious. And, as
         | we and others have demonstrated, they fail miserably and
         | consistently when evaluated under real-world conditions.
         | Studies claiming to investigate the prevalence, properties, or
         | influence of "social bots" have, in reality, just investigated
         | false positives and artifacts of the flawed detection methods
         | employed.
        
         | mike_hearn wrote:
         | Their research shows nearly all social bot papers are wrong,
         | not just a single paper. I've summarized the paper and talk
         | here, along with some more of my own inputs (I used to work on
         | bot fighting):
         | 
         | https://blog.plan99.net/fake-science-part-ii-bots-that-are-n...
         | 
         | One of the points I make is that social bot research is a
         | prolific academic field. There are nearly 10,000 papers indexed
         | on Google Scholar on the topic and that's not all of them. And
         | basically all of them are fantasy. Clearly, bots do exist, but
         | the techniques in these papers are not able to detect them
         | reliably and the authors don't seem to care.
        
           | lmeyerov wrote:
           | "All" is an ambitious claim.
           | 
           | They show some papers use a bad bot detector with even worse
           | (and unrecommended) settings. Worse, they _explicitly skip
           | bot accounts that twitter confirmed_ , and thus evaluate on
           | _accounts twitter didn 't think were bots._ That kind of
           | mistep means it fails to show botometer is a good/bad
           | classifier (even if we all know that), so until they fix
           | their methodology, their misreproduction is bad _scientific_
           | grounds for disqualifying all papers using it.
           | 
           | This is why we have peer review and you can pick what level
           | of peer you trust your work at. I like the intent of the
           | paper. But, I wouldn't have let it pass peer review as-is.
           | 
           | I do agree social scientists deserve better tools because
           | botometer is more of a crude footgun at this point. A lot has
           | happened since botometer, and what may have made some sense
           | 5-10 years ago doesn't make sense today. They could have
           | written a scientific paper showing this and I'd 100% believe
           | it, but instead they used garbage methodolgy and people are
           | inferring whatever they want from that.
        
             | mike_hearn wrote:
             | Could you point out where they say they ignored all the
             | accounts shut down by Twitter? In most cases they can't
             | even do this because the sets of accounts identified as
             | 'bots' by othe researchers aren't made public. If you look
             | at their methodology for proving Botometer is flawed, it's
             | based on taking sets of verified human Twitter accounts
             | like US Congress, none of which were shut down by Twitter,
             | and then showing high FP rates (like 50%).
             | 
             | Some of the papers mentioned in the analysis don't use
             | Botornot, but are still deeply flawed. I should point out
             | here that I'm cited by the authors (Hearn2017) and the
             | paper I looked at doesn't use Botometer at all, nor did I
             | exclude accounts identified by Twitter for the simple
             | reason that no specific accounts were named by the
             | researchers at all.
             | 
             |  _" I like the intent of the paper. But, I wouldn't have
             | let it pass peer review as-is."_
             | 
             | Then you will be pleased to know that despite peer
             | reviewers signing off on thousands of incorrect, evidence-
             | free papers talking about social bots, this paper - which
             | provides ample proof of its claims - remains a preprint
             | because none of the journals interested in social bots are
             | willing to publish it. What a surprise.
             | 
             | You sound like someone who is or was a social scientist? I
             | think you should take it from a guy who did get paid to
             | fight bots at Google: none of this research matters to or
             | is read by the people whom it's supposed to benefit.
             | Industry ignores it or occasionally points out that it's
             | flawed, as Twitter did here:
             | https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/bot-or-
             | no...
             | 
             |  _" What about tools like Botometer & Bot Sentinel? ...
             | This is an extremely limited approach ... These tools do
             | not account for these common Twitter use cases, how far
             | we've come, and how things have evolved. As a result nuance
             | can be lost. The outcome? Binary judgments of who's a "bot
             | or not", which have real potential to poison our public
             | discourse -- particularly when they are pushed out through
             | the media."_
        
               | lmeyerov wrote:
               | Section 3.2: the 10%+ of already-deleted accounts were
               | removed. You can often actually infer why an account was
               | removed, but they didn't.
               | 
               | Furthermore, it is questionable to me to know 10% were
               | already confirmed removed and then state the reproducers
               | found all of the remaining were great.
               | 
               | If I went deeper, I bet even more issues. As is, this is
               | already enough to remove any word like "all" and various
               | weasel word phrasings.
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | Ad-hominem shouldn't matter. But:
               | 
               | Professionally, I work with top gov agencies, top 3 cloud
               | providers, F500s, startups, misinfo teams, etc. to
               | provide pluggable core tech for their core graph
               | intelligence pipelines (Graphistry), such as for sigint
               | tasks. Botnets, hackers, account take overs, account
               | abuse, etc - threat hunting, threat research, AML teams,
               | digital human trafficking. As a #data4good effort, we
               | help non-profits & researchers on the same things, such
               | as via our free tier & some of our own hands-on help.
               | We're just a tiny startup, but helped with massive
               | international takedowns, flagged one of the Jan 6
               | indictees back in December (that FB and friends didn't
               | take down util after more pressure), regularly help folks
               | publish breaking news, etc.
               | 
               | Before, I was a well-cited academic (Test of Time award,
               | Best of Years, etc), and work spanned early R&D for
               | engineering tools your colleagues likely use today, and
               | empirical & social research stuff for being able to judge
               | work like this. Which I am, harshly. It looked like an
               | easy win of a paper if they were dilligent, but ended up
               | needlessly weasely.
               | 
               | ---
               | 
               | I agree with you on the tools weaknesses and big
               | companies ignoring researchers, but for different reasons
               | than researchers being wrong.
               | 
               | The Twitter response is stock corporate CYA, so I don't
               | take that at face value.
               | 
               | Instead, consistent with what I've written, tools like
               | botometer are largely irrelevant to modern practitioners
               | here because reasons like:
               | 
               | - Abuse teams at free social platforms are at battle with
               | themselves and their surrounding organization & CEOs. The
               | Facebook whistleblower accounts may particularly resonate
               | well with you on why being factually right/wrong has
               | little to do with what platforms do.
               | 
               | - Botometer is dumb. Twitter went as far as acquiring the
               | startup of one of the top GNN researchers: In contrast,
               | botometer is from the dinosaur era.
               | 
               | - Botometer is data-starved. Data is thin (no IPs, ...)
               | and at low volumes (capped APIs). When you have APIs, app
               | use logs, etc., same as someone self-hosting even the
               | tiniest and most boring online store, you can do much
               | better informed analyses. It's like a crypto app fraud &
               | compliance team who only looks at blockchain data to
               | decide good bad account/transaction, and ignores all the
               | app log data & threat intel data.
        
         | elcapitan wrote:
         | I think this is specific about the notion of "social bots",
         | i.e. bots that are mostly indistinguishable from humans or
         | could even interact with them in a realistic way. Obviously
         | everybody can write a spambot, or click a "post this on
         | twitter" button (which is 90% of what people mistake for "bot
         | posts", anyway).
        
         | mypastself wrote:
         | The paper found that the vast majority of Twitter users
         | classified as bots were actually human. They analyzed data sets
         | previously used by three organizations responsible for the
         | majority of available papers on the topic.
         | 
         | The authors of the paper concluded that, in the future, any
         | claims that withhold the list of account handles classified as
         | bots should be ignored because the claims can't be
         | independently verified.
         | 
         | So they didn't rebuke just one study but datasets underlying
         | most studies on the topic, they analyzed Twitter rather than
         | Reddit, and they did not claim that bots don't exist. If I am
         | mistaken, someone who's analyzed the paper in more depth than I
         | did can correct me.
        
         | Jiro wrote:
         | It's the most common bot detection software and was used by
         | over a thousand research papers.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | pthread_t wrote:
       | What about "trolls farms" [0]?
       | 
       | [0]
       | https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/09/16/1035851/facebook...
        
         | r721 wrote:
         | There's quite a few of undercover journalistic investigations
         | too:
         | 
         | >Meet The Activist Who Uncovered The Russian Troll Factory
         | Named In The Mueller Probe
         | 
         | >Internet activist Lyudmila Savchuk spent two months working
         | undercover at the troll factory in 2015
         | 
         | https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2018/03/15/594062887/...
         | (2018)
         | 
         | >Inside a Ukrainian Troll Farm
         | 
         | >To understand how these powerful mechanisms function, OCCRP
         | member center Slidstvo.Info sent a journalist undercover to
         | work at a Ukrainian troll farm in advance of this summer's
         | parliamentary elections.
         | 
         | https://www.occrp.org/en/investigations/inside-a-ukrainian-t...
         | (2019)
         | 
         | >Undercover reporter reveals life in a Polish troll farm
         | 
         | >Katarzyna Pruszkiewicz spent six months running fake social
         | media accounts at self-described 'ePR firm' in Wroclaw
         | 
         | https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/01/undercover-rep...
         | (2019)
        
       | Raed667 wrote:
       | In places where labor is cheap, it could be more effective to
       | employ the equivalent of a "call center" to have a large number
       | of people animate a whole bunch of Facebook and Twitter accounts.
       | 
       | No bots or special tooling needed.
        
       | caaqil wrote:
       | Wow, this is really interesting. The research in this area, as
       | the paper points out, is almost completely garbage. The Botometer
       | case is especially shocking:
       | 
       | > The total numbers of Twitter followers they analyzed during the
       | election campaign was 838,026, which, assuming the claimed
       | "social bot" prevalence of 9.9%, would correspond to roughly 83k
       | "social bots". However, the paper does not provide any examples
       | of "social bot" accounts and the raw data was not shared. When we
       | contacted the authors, they were unable to provide us with a
       | single credible example of a "social bot".
       | 
       | > To summarize the result, not a single one of the accounts in
       | the list was a "bot" in any meaningful sense of the word,
       | certainly not a "social bot". In other words, every single "bot"
       | in our sample was a false alarm; the precision (positive
       | predictive value) of Botometer on this task is 0%. Assuming that
       | Botometer does not perform worse than a random number generator
       | (as we did not check the accounts rated as human), we can also
       | conclude that the best guess for the number of "social bots"
       | following the political parties in Germany is not 83,000, as
       | claimed by Keller and Klinger, but zero.
        
         | Hokusai wrote:
         | It seems that is reasonable to claim that Botometer has not
         | proven its effectiveness. But that does not prove the opposite.
         | 
         | That a police department is unable to distinguish thieves from
         | the rest of citizens do not prove that there are no thieves but
         | just that the police department is incompetent.
        
           | mike_hearn wrote:
           | Quite a few comments seem to be mixing up a couple of things
           | here:
           | 
           | 1. Do spam bots exist
           | 
           | 2. Do "social bots" exist
           | 
           | For (1) the answer is clearly yes and nobody is claiming
           | otherwise. However, academics don't see to care about
           | spambots. That's a problem industrial researchers care about
           | but not the sort of people who publish 'scientific' papers.
           | 
           | For (2) the correct answer is "there is no reliable evidence
           | to support this". The term social bot is of course vague, but
           | these papers are usually defining it as bots that attempt to
           | subtly manipulate political discourse for ideological or
           | geopolitical agendas. And when you go looking for evidence
           | that such bots exist you end up finding what Gallwitz & Kreil
           | found - that not just some of the research is bad, but all of
           | it is. Where are the papers proving this problem actually
           | exists in a clearly convincing way? There aren't any.
           | 
           | There's a very deep problem here which crops up in lots of
           | other contexts e.g. why is there so much research into
           | psionic abilities, why is COVID modelling so unreliable, why
           | do scientific journals keep publishing auto-generated
           | gibberish as "peer reviewed science" [1], why do so many
           | papers in so many fields fail to replicate incl. not just
           | social sciences but fields of critical importance like
           | oncology? The root causes are the same, namely, academic
           | institutions don't actually seem to care if research uses the
           | scientific method or not. So you get things like Botometer as
           | featured in this article, where it's just some ML model
           | that's producing noise. It classified half of US Congress as
           | bots and nobody cared. Thousands of papers have been
           | published on the back of this model and zero have been
           | retracted. It's because in that world what matters is
           | publishing things that are interesting, not publishing things
           | that are true.
           | 
           | [1] https://dailysceptic.org/2021/10/03/436-randomly-
           | generated-p...
        
             | tablespoon wrote:
             | > 2. Do "social bots" exist...
             | 
             | > For (2) the correct answer is "there is no reliable
             | evidence to support this". The term social bot is of course
             | vague, but these papers are usually defining it as bots
             | that attempt to subtly manipulate political discourse for
             | ideological or geopolitical agendas. And when you go
             | looking for evidence that such bots exist you end up
             | finding what Gallwitz & Kreil found - that not just some of
             | the research is bad, but all of it is. Where are the papers
             | proving this problem actually exists in a clearly
             | convincing way? There aren't any.
             | 
             | I'm not sure clear on your distinction between "spam bots"
             | and "social bots," but clearly there is reliable evidence
             | to support "bots that attempt to subtly manipulate
             | political discourse for ideological or geopolitical
             | agendas," exist, like plans to procure accounts for them.
             | 
             | https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/20/technology/c
             | h...
             | 
             | > Suppliers should provide accounts on overseas social
             | platforms to purchasers at any time. The platforms include
             | Twitter, Facebook, etc., and the supplier should provide
             | about 300 accounts per month on each platform. Note:
             | Content for this project is highly time sensitive.
             | Suppliers should be able to supply accounts at any time.
             | 
             | I'd imagine those accounts would be deployed and managed in
             | an automated fashion. Is someone automating accounts to
             | send out propaganda operating a "spam bot" or a "social
             | bot"?
        
             | yehNonsense0 wrote:
        
           | aaron695 wrote:
        
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