[HN Gopher] The implementation of the UK Covid-19 dashboard
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       The implementation of the UK Covid-19 dashboard
        
       Author : zlib
       Score  : 183 points
       Date   : 2022-01-23 11:18 UTC (11 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (techcommunity.microsoft.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (techcommunity.microsoft.com)
        
       | amelius wrote:
       | I would have preferred to see it implemented as a spreadsheet in
       | the cloud.
        
         | rob_c wrote:
         | The data is exportable but you then have to deal with 8MB+ csv
         | files. Still it's better than it being in docx I suppose...
         | 
         | But then this would let you perform statistical analyses on
         | _their_ data, I'm not sure they're such a big fan of that...
        
         | StringyBob wrote:
         | Well, you can just grab the data very easily:
         | https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/download
        
           | amelius wrote:
           | Yeah, not what I prefer.
           | 
           | As a programmer, I want to make demands about UX too, for a
           | change ...
        
             | aembleton wrote:
             | Why not build your own UX on top of the data?
        
       | trebligdivad wrote:
       | I do wonder if the power of a distributed database is really
       | needed here; it gets ~1 update a day, so there's no need to have
       | clever consistency stuff. Most of the queries relate to either
       | today's data (you open the map and zoom in to see how doomed your
       | area is today), or the graphs showing a standard set of history
       | (e.g. cases over the last year). You'd think you could extract
       | that data to be static and not require database queries, and only
       | fire up the database for the tiny proportion that go digging in
       | history.
        
         | lloydatkinson wrote:
         | I had the same thoughts and then it was confirmed how insane
         | this setup is part way through:
         | 
         | "At the time of writing, the Citus distributed database cluster
         | adopted by the team on Azure is HA-enabled for high
         | availability and has 12 worker nodes with a combined total of
         | 192 vCores, ~1.5 TB of memory, and 24 TB of storage. (The Citus
         | coordinator node has 64 vCores, 256 GB of memory, and 1 TB of
         | storage.)"
         | 
         | That's beyond overkill for something that as you say could be
         | generated statically a couple of times a day.
        
           | samhw wrote:
           | > could be generated statically a couple of times a day
           | 
           | Hell, let's do some partial evaluation: just bake the
           | computed HTML into the source code and recompile that a few
           | times a day. No need to even read from a file when you can
           | fetch it from rodata.
           | 
           | As for the reason why they did it this way, I assume it's a
           | combination of CV-driven development along with the
           | hackernoon-reading-junior-engineer-meets-cunning-salesperson
           | effect which others have noted.
        
           | _ben_ wrote:
           | Yes the static render option seems optimal however if an API
           | is being offered then something dynamic is mandated forcing
           | scaling of the data tier. It seems like even a basic app
           | cache would suffice.
           | 
           | Alternatively, we're building https://www.polyscale.ai/ that
           | is a good fit for this type of use case. It's a global
           | database cache and integrates with Postgres/MySQL etc. We
           | host PoP's globally so the database reads are offset and
           | local to users.
           | 
           | Agree with the other comments in that this feels like a shiny
           | use case to quote to other prospects, but all good :)
        
           | sharken wrote:
           | My suspicion is that since this has to do with COVID, there
           | is no real limit on what the cost should really be.
           | 
           | As for using the setup for other things, that seems less
           | likely given this expensive setup.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | vidarh wrote:
           | It's probably overkill, but not really enough overkill to be
           | worth spending much time on.
           | 
           | E.g. 12 worker nodes and 192 vCores means they've picked 16
           | core nodes. 1.5TB of memory across 12 nodes means 128GB per
           | node. 24TB of storage is just 2TB per node.
           | 
           | So it's 12 relatively mid sized servers/VMs.
           | 
           | They could certainly do it with much less, and I have no
           | interest in looking up what 12 nodes of that spec would cost
           | on Azure, but at Hetzner it'd cost less than 1500 GBP/month
           | including substantial egress. At most cloud providers the
           | bandwidth bill for this likely swamps the instance cost, and
           | the developer cost to develop this is likely many times the
           | lifetime projected hosting cost even with that much overkill.
           | 
           | If they happen to have someone familiar with query caching
           | and CDNs, I'm sure they could cut it significantly very
           | quickly, and even an entirely average developer could figure
           | out how to trim that significantly over time. But even at
           | (low) UK government contract rates it's not worth much time
           | to try to trim a bill like that much vs. just picking
           | whatever the developers who worked on it preferred.
        
           | tgv wrote:
           | > generated statically a couple of times a day.
           | 
           | That would require actual work instead of selling an
           | overpriced generic solution.
        
           | smarx007 wrote:
           | Did you look at the 3 different (non-trivial) APIs they are
           | offering on top of the dashboard? Though I have a hard time
           | understanding why use PostgreSQL instead of ClickHouse, for
           | example.
        
             | lloydatkinson wrote:
             | No I didn't tbh, I didn't read much further. Notice how one
             | sentence says Postgres was chosen because it was somebody's
             | preference
        
               | foepys wrote:
               | You will always be faster with worse tools you know than
               | with better tools you don't know.
        
               | lloydatkinson wrote:
               | True but why does it also need terabytes of storage and
               | 12 worker nodes?
        
               | stuaxo wrote:
               | i imagine getting something up, quicklh waa a priority,
               | rather than spending longer architecting amd optimising.
        
         | kakakiki wrote:
         | I came here to say exactly this. Is there a reason why they
         | didn't do it? I couldn't figure it out from the article.
        
         | mslot wrote:
         | The dashboard has to deal with a complex data integration
         | problem, with different sources with differences in
         | completeness, accuracy, age, and granularity (at many levels),
         | daily corrections in past data, changes in data structure and
         | semantics over time, large data volume, 4pm traffic spikes.
         | Moreover, an API that allows you to select different metrics
         | for different areas. Being able to simply write a SQL query or
         | update and have it be fast regardless of volume is quite a
         | life-saver if you have a tiny (mostly 1 person) team and
         | development speed/adaptability is essential.
         | 
         | Some example queries issued by the dashboard:
         | https://github.com/publichealthengland/coronavirus-dashboard...
         | https://github.com/publichealthengland/coronavirus-dashboard...
         | https://github.com/publichealthengland/coronavirus-dashboard...
        
           | vlovich123 wrote:
           | See the other comment about the Dutch dashboard. Covid data
           | isn't changing that quickly. Having the frontend render
           | something more static simplifies the design. No sql queries
           | are even needed and you don't need to scale out your
           | database.
        
             | Accacin wrote:
             | Well the Dutch site takes much longer to load. All these
             | comments are (rightfully) discussing the back end being
             | incredibly over-engineered, but 99% of people do not care
             | about that. They care about how quickly a page loads, which
             | the gov.uk site does much better.
             | 
             | I guess that implies that using Next for a "static site" is
             | not a great idea.
        
             | [deleted]
        
           | alexchamberlain wrote:
           | I think the point was that the analyst needs to do that, but
           | the frontend doesn't really need to - it could render a bunch
           | of statically aggregated data and the spikes become another
           | CDN problem.
        
         | mmcnl wrote:
         | I agree. For example, the Dutch corona dashboard
         | (coronadashboard.rijksoverheid.nl) is a statically rendered
         | dashboard using Next that gets updated daily. No backend and
         | it's super fast.
         | 
         | Maybe I'm not objective because I'm Dutch myself, but from both
         | a user-facing and technical perspective I think the Dutch
         | dashboard is by far the best corona dashboard in the world.
         | It's very fast, has a lot of detailed visualizations, provides
         | a lot of context and has fair amount of accessibility features.
        
           | codefined wrote:
           | Looking at the Dutch site on my phone (Samsung S10) I noticed
           | it took a little while to load compared to the nigh instant
           | loading of the UK Gov variant. Looking at Page Insights [0]
           | [1] tells a similar picture. Desktop time to interactive
           | times of 0.4s Vs 3.5s and Mobile time to interactive times of
           | 4.5s Vs 13.1s.
           | 
           | The Dutch website seems to spend a lot of that time running
           | the Next JS framework stuff, which the Gov.uk variant does
           | not. It might work quickly on fast computers, but even on
           | modern phones it seems to visibly pause.
        
           | Accacin wrote:
           | I'd say that using Next for a static site is just as over
           | engineered, personally.
        
           | xbar wrote:
           | Is there a dashboard of dashboards somewhere?
        
         | YZF wrote:
         | To add to this the scale of the data is presumably quite small
         | as well. The geographical resolution is probably not super
         | fine, there's only a handful of different kinds of data
         | (deaths, vaccination whatnot) and the time resolution doesn't
         | have to be too fine either (a day?). Even if you wanted to
         | query it in very sophisticated ways you wouldn't need a
         | database.
        
           | londons_explore wrote:
           | In fact, the UK dashboard had a suspicious outage when total
           | case numbers exceeded the 1 million row limit of Excel... I
           | suspect excel is used in the data prep stage, if not used in
           | serving the dashboard.
        
         | illwrks wrote:
         | My guess is that this is sales pitch. It will be rolled out to
         | business customers to say "look at our shiny bells and
         | whistles", and contracts will be signed.
        
         | glogla wrote:
         | I played with the website and it feels really nice.
         | 
         | My guess is that this was web people who were contracted to
         | build a read-only daily updated dashboard instead of
         | interactive web app so they treated it as another web app, just
         | scaled up.
        
       | raesene9 wrote:
       | The covid dashboard I've found the nicest to use, is actually not
       | one of the official ones but instead this
       | https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker... .
       | 
       | The information is presented clearly and it's easy to see what's
       | going on, although in my case the main reason is the breakdown
       | for Argyll & Bute, which isn't a focus area for the national
       | ones!
        
       | boomskats wrote:
       | This feels like a marketing-led attempt to shoehorn Citus into
       | something topical and shareable, having realised that they've
       | barely talked about it since acquiring the company a couple of
       | years ago.
       | 
       | I'm all for Citus, but cmon. Overkill.
        
       | greatgib wrote:
       | First, when you see public officials doing a blog post on
       | "Microsoft.com" website instead of on a public website, you know
       | that something fishy is going on...
       | 
       | On the other side, I have the feeling that this thing that
       | clearly over-engineered. Just look at data their diagram... If
       | I'm not wrong there is one writer and multiple reader for the
       | data, or at least multiple writers on one side and multiple
       | readers on another side, without a need for "real time"
       | consistency.
       | 
       | So, this thing could probably have been better splitted to not
       | have the use for "scaled" databases
        
         | sdoering wrote:
         | > First, when you see public officials doing a blog post on
         | "Microsoft.com" website instead of on a public website, you
         | know that something fishy is going on...
         | 
         | The article states it was written by Claire Giordano from San
         | Francisco. Not sure where you got the UK Government official
         | from.
         | 
         | To me it read like a b2b marketing piece and showcase. Kind of:
         | We can power this, so we can power your BI dashboard as well.
         | 
         | Taking this into account it was a nice write up and from a data
         | analyst's and consultant's pov interesting to read.
        
           | Rastonbury wrote:
           | Coming from consulting, this is exactly what it is - from a
           | pure engineering standpoint it may be lacking but if you've
           | read any other 'case study' targeted as business people this
           | goes really deep. Normally it's SEO fodder crammed with
           | jargon and buzzwords
        
           | arsome wrote:
           | It definitely had a bit of a marketing tone, but it was
           | focused on what's ultimately an open source product you can
           | run pretty much anywhere, from a different cloud provider to
           | your own bare metal, they just happened to use it on Azure.
        
           | greatgib wrote:
           | Indeed I did not check the bio of the article writer, but
           | when you read:
           | 
           | <<As a result, the GOV.UK Coronavirus dashboard became one of
           | the most visited public service websites in the United
           | Kingdom.>>
           | 
           | You don't expect the gov UK dashboard to be done us
           | consultants...
        
         | StringyBob wrote:
         | Not as much tech detail, but for an alternative source, here's
         | an intro by the team dashboard lead -
         | https://ukhsa.blog.gov.uk/2022/01/20/reporting-the-vital-sta...
         | 
         | Also - I've been really impressed by the openness of the team
         | actually doing the work - eg threads like
         | https://twitter.com/pouriaaa/status/1476892793729654787
         | 
         | and in particular this analysis of debugging a problem that the
         | dashboard encountered - which also gives a lot more background
         | context: https://dev.to/xenatisch/cascade-of-doom-jit-and-how-
         | a-postg...
        
         | DrBazza wrote:
         | > First, when you see public officials doing a blog post on
         | "Microsoft.com" website instead of on a public website, you
         | know that something fishy is going on...
         | 
         | Maybe, I'm naive, or not cynical enough, but I just read this
         | as a case study of customer using Azure to provide the general
         | public with information in a robust fashion.
         | 
         | In fact, if anything, the whole article is remarkably light on
         | pushing Azure, and quite heavy on architecture details.
         | 
         | The open source code (on Github) uses Postgres (not MSSQL), and
         | Python (not C# or Powershell), and in fact has a screen shot of
         | Jetbrain's Pycharm, and not VSCode.
         | 
         | In fact it's probably quite an MS agnostic article.
         | 
         | Even though gov.uk is actually a really good IT company, I'm
         | quite pleased that they're using "the cloud" rather than trying
         | to create their own.
        
           | ghassanmas wrote:
           | To be accurte, it's not completely Micrsoft agnostic, it make
           | use case for a PSQL extension citus[1], the company behind
           | this extension has been acquired by Microsoft two years
           | ago[2].
           | 
           | [1]: https://github.com/citusdata/citus
           | 
           | [2]: https://blogs.microsoft.com/blog/2019/01/24/microsoft-
           | acquir...
        
           | samhw wrote:
           | > Even though gov.uk is actually a really good IT company
           | 
           | For anyone who's wondering, the relevant team here is GDS[0].
           | We hired a bunch of engineers from there at one of my
           | previous companies - which was doing some quite gnarly
           | technical work - and they were superb. I believe the US
           | equivalent is 18F.
           | 
           | [0] The Government Digital Service in full, but no definite
           | article for the initialism.
        
       | zlib wrote:
       | https://github.com/publichealthengland powered by a lot of Python
       | and Ruby, nice.
        
         | nojito wrote:
         | And a bunch of F#
         | 
         | https://github.com/publichealthengland/coronavirus-dashboard...
        
           | mdm12 wrote:
           | Nice catch!
           | 
           | It surprises me how much more popular F# is in Europe
           | compared to the US. I finally got a professional F# gig in
           | the states (\o/), but there were very few options. It makes
           | me wonder, are universities in Europe providing a more
           | functional-first approach to CS education, or is something
           | else going on?
        
             | jll29 wrote:
             | Never seen a job ad on anything sharp other than C# in
             | Europe.
             | 
             | There are occasionally LISP and Clojure jobs from what I
             | can tell.
             | 
             | (It's also hard to find people on the talent side. I needed
             | a Haskell developer with NLP skills in 2005, and could not
             | find one so we had to port our codebase to Java.)
        
               | mdm12 wrote:
               | It's anecdotal, but on the F# Software Foundation's slack
               | workspace[1], 4 out of the last 5 postings in the #jobs
               | channel were in Europe.
               | 
               | No doubt, any company that picks a niche programming
               | language as their business's lingua franca is taking a
               | risk. For me, though, that is an indicator that they care
               | about quality and do not have a culture of treating
               | engineers as replaceable assembly line parts.
               | 
               | [1] https://fsharp.org/guides/slack/
        
       | adenner wrote:
       | It is miles better than my state's local Covid Dashboard
       | (https://coronavirus.iowa.gov/) that is updated fully once a week
       | on Wednesdays. On Monday and Friday they simply post a screenshot
       | of a pixelated version of a summary page only.
        
       | 2dvisio wrote:
       | Wonder why they haven't used powerBI for that, but deep inside I
       | know why...
        
       | 2143 wrote:
       | The UK covid dashboard[2] mentioned in the article also has a
       | "simple" version.[1]
       | 
       | I love it when websites have a simple text version.
       | 
       | [1] https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/easy_read [2]
       | https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/
        
       | glogla wrote:
       | I skimmed the article and it seems interesting.
       | 
       | On the data side, they have ~7.5 billion total records and they
       | add in 55 million new a day. On the web side, they have ~1
       | million daily unique users and 100k concurrent users at peak
       | ("concurrent" means "in one minute" is seems).
       | 
       | I'm no expert on the web part, but I'm kind of curious why they
       | went with the design they did for the data part. The design, and
       | the chosen technologies make me think they treated it more like a
       | normal web app, not like a dashboard. I would expect OLAP
       | database, not a sharded Postgres, and the data model feels very
       | OLTP to me as well. Or maybe is that because it's mostly time
       | series and not traditional data model?
       | 
       | I'll have to go through the article in more detail.
        
         | GraemeMeyer wrote:
         | A few other commenters have pointed out the same thing - I'm
         | wondering if it's simply the skill set they had on hand when
         | the need arose
        
         | mslot wrote:
         | OLAP stores are relatively fast at answering a single query on
         | a large data set, but basically none of them can handle high
         | throughput with subsecond response times (e.g. when the whole
         | country checks statistics for their own postcode at 4pm).
         | 
         | OLTP stores are relatively bad at aggregating across a lot of
         | data.
         | 
         | Analytics dashboards with many users, a lot of ever-changing
         | data, and many different views exist in a gray area between
         | OLAP and OLTP often referred to as real-time analytics or
         | operational analytics. The queries are usually somewhat lighter
         | / less ad-hoc / more indexed than in OLAP, but there can be
         | hundreds or thousands of them per second with different filters
         | and aggregations.
         | 
         | There are some specialized real-time analytics databases like
         | Druid. Citus (used in the article) allows you to run such
         | workloads at scale on PostgreSQL.
        
       | intricatedetail wrote:
        
         | rob_c wrote:
         | Yes. This was never pure ONS data. It was always
         | processed/massaged/tampered with.
         | 
         | Although horrifyingly it did allow you to gauge the Westminster
         | mindset and understand what Draconian measures they were
         | planning to introduce sightly ahead of time because the data
         | would have to reflect this when lord Boris got up on the
         | podium...
        
           | rob_c wrote:
           | Despite the downvotes the only incorrect statement here is
           | that Boris has a lordship. Go export the ONS data yourself
           | and analyse it unless your too lazy to see what I mean
        
             | teh_klev wrote:
             | > Go export the ONS data yourself and analyse it unless
             | your[sic] too lazy to see what I mean
             | 
             | If you're going to make such claims then the onus is _you_
             | to provide the evidence.
        
       | llimos wrote:
       | > From the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, the United Kingdom
       | (UK) government has made it a top priority to track key health
       | metrics and to share those metrics with the public.
       | 
       | According to Dominic Cummings (ex-adviser to the PM), this isn't
       | true at all - one of their biggest failings early on was to not
       | have the data and not see the priority in getting it.[1]
       | 
       | [1] https://news.sky.com/story/dominic-cummings-hearing-the-
       | insi... : He added later that there was no data system at that
       | point, and he needed to use his iphone as a calculator to make
       | predictions about the extent to which infections would spread,
       | which he then wrote down on a white board.
        
         | zarzavat wrote:
         | It's worth noting for those who don't follow UK politics (I
         | don't recommend doing so), that Dominic Cummings was fired as
         | the top advisor, and like a jealous ex he is determined to
         | bring down the government by any means possible. So he is an
         | unreliable source to say the least. Although the government
         | seems to have left enough rope to hang themselves without
         | Cummings needing to invent anything.
        
         | Closi wrote:
         | The government _was_ tracking key health metrics and sharing
         | them at the point Dom was talking about using his iPhone. For
         | instance on the same date, the government did it 's first daily
         | briefing and shared infection and death metrics with the public
         | (see https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51901818).
         | 
         | Tracking key health metrics and sharing those metrics with the
         | public doesn't mean that there is modelling about the extent to
         | which infections would spread - although we _also_ know that
         | the imperial modelling was released a day later, so while he
         | may have been using his iPhone to make predictions there were
         | also academic teams modelling this that were collaborating with
         | the government at the time (see
         | https://www.imperial.ac.uk/news/196234/covid-19-imperial-
         | res...).
         | 
         | It's also not clear what a 'data system' is in this context -
         | there was clearly an effort to very quickly put something in
         | place to capture data (because it couldn't wait a few
         | weeks/months), but a more robust analytics system will
         | inevitably take more than a few weeks to put in place if not
         | already in place pre-pandemic (a lot of this is about how NHS
         | trusts are structured in the UK, which operate fairly
         | independently). It's not clear to me how quickly is realistic
         | to implement what Dom thought was suitable in terms of a 'data
         | system', particularly as I'm not particularly clear on his
         | requirements (he seems to want an element of forecasting built
         | into this system for instance?), so without knowing what the
         | requirements are can we be confident that what he wanted to
         | build was possible to build, test and implement in his expected
         | timeline?
         | 
         | So I don't think there is a clear contradiction here (and in
         | fact, I think the evidence points to the fact that the
         | statement in the article is probably correct).
        
           | iamstupidsimple wrote:
           | From watching his testimony I believe Cummings was
           | disappointed that this 'data system' wasn't available before
           | the pandemic, precisely because that few week delay putting
           | one together meant everything.
        
             | Closi wrote:
             | > I believe Cummings was disappointed that this 'data
             | system' wasn't available before the pandemic, precisely
             | because that few week delay putting one together meant
             | everything.
             | 
             | It's very easy to say that something should have been there
             | _after_ the fact, and harder to build a system for an
             | unknown-threat before you have any clear requirements.
             | 
             | It's also not clear to me what data a 'data system' would
             | have provided that would have meaningfully changed any
             | policy (and if it didn't affect policy, I'm not sure how it
             | can 'mean everything').
             | 
             | What data did the government not have in March 2020 that
             | they could have collected with some sort of pre-built 'data
             | system'? In reality the bigger issue in understanding the
             | situation at the time was that we couldn't identify all the
             | covid cases anyway because there wasn't enough test
             | resource - it wasn't the lack of a 'data system'.
        
         | rob_c wrote:
         | Yes but Cummings deliberately asked questions which are
         | fundamentally unknowable and went with report9 which claimed to
         | be all knowing...
         | 
         | > "and to share those metrics with the public" Given stats on
         | how many patients were in ICU didn't officially exist so you
         | couldnt request them with an FOI request I'll let you work out
         | how true this is. They wanted to control the data to craft a
         | narrative to justify the report9 claims we'd have plague bodies
         | in the streets because this is the end of days...
        
       | axiosgunnar wrote:
       | > Government project
       | 
       | > awarded to Microsoft
       | 
       | Hey Europe, want to stop being several decades behind in IT
       | compared to US/China?
       | 
       | One simple trick:
       | 
       | Ban FAANG from public procurement in Europe!
       | 
       | It's a no-brainer really.
       | 
       | Buy locally, ideally giving small companies and startups a
       | chance.
       | 
       | You will have to do it anyway very soon if you want your privacy
       | laws to be taken seriously.
       | 
       | There might be a couple of months of friction while buerocrats
       | have to find new procurement partners, but that's it.
       | 
       | And then the European tech scene will rise.
        
         | azalemeth wrote:
         | I really can't agree with this more. My university gives
         | >$2e6/year to Microsoft alone. I'd much rather it gave
         | >$2e6/year to providing jobs for locally employed people,
         | rather than buying someone another yacht.
        
           | discordance wrote:
           | Curious how many students and faculty at your university are
           | served by that $2m/year?
           | 
           | I don't disagree with you, but if I were the CTO of a 10000+
           | seat organization, and a Microsoft/Google/etc told me they
           | could provide email, storage, sharing/collaboration, office
           | apps, security etc for a few bucks per user / month... that's
           | a pretty compelling deal.
        
             | notahacker wrote:
             | And the idea of a university rolling its own office apps
             | suite to provide local employment sounds like the sort of
             | decision likely to end up in tears, or at least in students
             | relying on Excel and Word on their own computers anyway
        
               | vidarh wrote:
               | Most people wouldn't end up with rolling their own, but
               | contracting existing support providers or developers.
               | 
               | E.g. for Excel and Word replacements there is
               | LibreOffice, and any number of companies offer more
               | polished packaged up LibreOffice variants and surrounding
               | services. One example is Collabora in the UK[1]. In that
               | respect the effect would be to shift revenue that
               | currently mostly leaves Europe to companies closer to
               | home.
               | 
               | The biggest hindrance is that if you do too much of that
               | and you'll get the US and others doing the same thing in
               | return, whether in the same sectors or entirely different
               | sectors.
               | 
               | [1] https://www.collaboraoffice.com/
        
         | kakoni wrote:
         | For instance in Finland Azure/AWS/GCP are seen as a superior
         | alternative against anything local/European and we've started
         | to move our govermental and healthcare infra into these cloud
         | providers.
        
         | rm445 wrote:
         | > Microsoft
         | 
         | > Ban FAANG
         | 
         | I know exactly what you mean, but is that what we're doing now?
         | Including Microsoft in FAANG but not changing the acronym?
        
           | shroompasta wrote:
           | to be fair, microsoft should've been included in the first
           | place. they've been teetering top 3 market cap for a while
           | now.
        
             | amelius wrote:
             | They should replace Netflix in FAANG or include Disney, HBO
             | and a bunch of others.
        
         | johneth wrote:
         | Microsoft didn't build this project, they just host it.
         | 
         | It's built in-house by the government.
        
         | desas wrote:
         | A couple of months wouldn't replace Microsoft word never mind
         | Excel, Aws, Azure AD or Azure
        
         | tjungblut wrote:
         | The UK isn't part of the EU anymore.
        
           | Doctor_Fegg wrote:
           | Maybe GP has edited their comment, but it says "Hey Europe"
           | and we are very definitely still part of Europe.
        
             | glogla wrote:
             | But one day you will put that offshore wind turbines into
             | reverse mode and push the isles to the middle of Atlantic,
             | right?
        
           | rob_c wrote:
           | But frankly we're very similar in this regard, and given we
           | might get dropped from H24 we're not in a good position tech
           | or science wise heading into a recovery...
           | 
           | We'll no doubt award yet more govt projects to the tech
           | oligarchs of the west and praise students for using their
           | toys...
        
         | benbristow wrote:
         | Get your point.
         | 
         | Those small companies and startups are going to end up using
         | Microsoft/Amazon/Google for their hosting/cloud-services anyway
         | so FAANG still win in the end.
        
         | odiroot wrote:
         | > Ban FAANG from public procurement in Europe!
         | 
         | Is it any better if SAP / Telekom get similar contracts (what
         | usually happens in Germany)?
        
           | axiosgunnar wrote:
           | At least the tax euros stay in Europe, and you get local
           | expertise, tech hubs etc
        
             | stickfigure wrote:
             | Don't Google Microsoft et al have offices in Europe?
        
       | snthd wrote:
       | Elsewhere[0] Microsoft have redefined "Open Source" to not
       | include the right to redistribute, or to host on a cloud service.
       | 
       | So while there's nothing wrong here with calling an MIT project
       | open souce, it's not inconsistent with their own definition, and
       | useable as propaganda.
       | 
       | [0] https://azure.microsoft.com/en-gb/services/developer-
       | tools/d...
       | 
       | >Is Azure Data Studio open source?
       | 
       | >Yes, the source code for Azure Data Studio and its data
       | providers is open source and available on GitHub. The source code
       | for the front-end Azure Data Studio, which is based on Microsoft
       | Visual Studio Code, is available under an end-user license
       | agreement that provides rights to modify and use the software,
       | but not to redistribute it or host it in a cloud service. The
       | source code for the data providers is available under the MIT
       | license.
        
         | nojito wrote:
         | How is the most common open source license not open source?
        
           | samhw wrote:
           | I mean, whatever the truth may be, you're begging the
           | question somewhat by calling it an 'open source license'.
        
         | skylanh wrote:
         | BSDL, GPL, MIT License.
         | 
         | This has been an argument for at least 25 years that I've been
         | around this stuff.
        
           | snthd wrote:
           | Both sides of that argument agree that the right to
           | redistribute is fundamental to FLOSS.
           | 
           | Microsoft is defining their product, which you can't
           | redistribute[0], as "Open Source".
           | 
           | [0] https://github.com/microsoft/azuredatastudio/blob/4012f26
           | 976...
        
         | chrisseaton wrote:
         | It's still useful to have the source open for reference even if
         | you can't redistribute though.
        
       | rob_c wrote:
       | Given the original meetings were all about producing a dynamic
       | simulation dashboard which would allow people and politicians to
       | understand the impact of various measures on lives saved...
       | 
       | Typical this turned into a pro cloud puff piece that frankly
       | shows a serious amount of over design for what should be a data
       | filtering/processing step to any reasonable "data scientist". And
       | if I'm having to say a data scientist could do it better you know
       | you got it wrong...
        
         | axiosgunnar wrote:
         | > people and monsters
         | 
         | monsters?
        
           | rob_c wrote:
           | Fixed to politicians. Freudian slip and a half there...
        
       | CraigJPerry wrote:
       | I like the UI design in figure 1. There's no crap in the way of
       | the data but i don't feel overwhelmed either. My eyes can scan
       | across sections and it feels natural, theres no firehose effect.
       | I like the thought that's gone into showing the % vaccinated in
       | the top right. I like the dashed underlines telling me that some
       | explainatory text is available.
       | 
       | I think the page looks inoffensive but is clearly focussed on
       | being informative. I wish more data repositories took care and
       | attention towards how data is represented.
        
         | cronin101 wrote:
         | I think GOV.UK in general does a very good job of making
         | important information readily available. It's however extra
         | jarring switching between the clean/efficient style of the
         | online messaging and the underlying public services/offices
         | that are still held together by chewing gum and a fax machine,
         | whenever you have some issue that can only be resolved by
         | persuading a human to stamp some paper (Visas, public records,
         | etc.)
        
           | spaniard89277 wrote:
           | At least you got that. Try Spain, when the tax agency uses
           | behavioral data and puts incentives for tax agents, but you
           | can't get a f*ing appointment for pretty much any service as
           | they use the most stupid appointment system ever, and 90% of
           | the state services are subcontracted to the lowest bidder
           | making everything a PITA to use.
           | 
           | All the fancy tech to get in your pockets. For everything
           | else, go f*k yourself.
        
         | one-more-minute wrote:
         | In general the gov.uk website is stellar. Lots of good info,
         | and plenty of thought has gone into making everything clear,
         | accessible and pleasing to the eye. Things generally work in a
         | way that they really don't on most public org websites. The
         | team behind it blog a fair bit about how they've made these
         | things happen.
         | 
         | https://insidegovuk.blog.gov.uk
         | 
         | The only downside is that they often send you to sites run by
         | other, significantly less competent bodies (looking at you,
         | student loans company).
        
           | samwillis wrote:
           | While I almost entirely agree with you, having had to report
           | positive LFT Covid tests and do the subsequent "test and
           | trace" form this week I feel that while the UI and UX is nice
           | the flow of those forms are really quite pore. There are
           | repetitive/redundant questions plus inconsistent and out of
           | date advise. It's probably more an effect of the difficult
           | moving target of changing rules and advice, but for what is
           | an important government process everyone is coming into
           | contact with I though it would be better. Maybe wishful
           | thinking though.
        
           | jsmith99 wrote:
           | They had an early win getting a effective and consistent UI
           | accross government sites, but digitising the underlying
           | processes is a work in progress. Once you click that
           | beautiful and accessible green submit button, it's not
           | impossible a printer in Swansea whirs to life to print your
           | answers out into the original paper form.
        
             | hunter321 wrote:
             | http://ehmipeach.defra.gov.uk/
             | 
             | >Using the right browser - only use Microsoft Edge PEACH is
             | compatible with Microsoft Edge, but only when Internet
             | Explorer mode is enabled. For guidance on setting up
             | Internet Explorer mode in Edge, follow this link to
             | instructions on the Microsoft Support Page.
             | 
             | Yeah, there's still some way to go.
        
             | samhw wrote:
             | > it's not impossible a printer in Swansea whirs to life to
             | print your answers out into the original paper form
             | 
             | Speaking of which: my mum went through the form to renew
             | her Oyster card the other day, and, having finally
             | completed it, it generated a PDF form and told her to print
             | it out and take it to the Post Office.
             | 
             | So yeah, there are definitely some Jira tickets still on
             | the left.
        
         | eggy wrote:
         | Yes, I thought the same thing in finding it easier on my
         | eyes/quick perception of the site.
         | 
         | I do think the UK and some other countries do a better job of
         | presenting data compared to the CDC.
         | 
         | It's pretty much agreed that the rate of unvaccinated people
         | vs. vaccinated people winding up in hospital beds is several
         | times higher, however, all the CDC data presented is only
         | rates. I want tallies or counts, and I cannot find them. For
         | instance, on Ontario, Candada's site[1], the vaccinated are 74%
         | vs. the unvaccinated's 26% of COVID hospitalizations. Most non-
         | technical people think the hospitalizations of COVID patients
         | is like over 90%. It's because more and more people are
         | vaccinated, even with a lower rate of hospitalizations, the
         | numbers are higher. Also, it's interesting to see on the
         | Ontario site that COVID hospitalizations consist of 56%
         | directly for COVID, and 44% were admitted for other reasons and
         | then tested positive for COVID once hospitalized. The case is
         | more telling for ICU with 81% admitted for COVID, and 19% for
         | other reasons.
         | 
         | I am trying to play with raw data more for refreshing my
         | munging skills than making a point or fodder to add to the
         | COVID noise. I have been coding since 1978, played with neural
         | nets, GAs, and GP in the late 1980s, but I don't code or do
         | data analysis for a living right now (other than buisness
         | strategy reports that require some basic analysis). There's a
         | lot of data out there, and it can get very confusing. I am back
         | to using R/RStudio from a brief stint using Julia/Pluto
         | notebooks and previously using Python/Jupyter notebooks. I even
         | did a toy DSEIR model in J back in April 2020 based on previous
         | work by a couple of people, which I plan on updating to
         | April[2]. I am going to try and do some Lisp work, and I think
         | I will settle on RStudio and Lisp for more
         | genomic/bioinformatic stuff (yes, I know biolisp has been
         | supplanted by python, however, Lisp is having a renaissance in
         | symbolic-related areas of ML again like NLP). BTW, in what
         | language was GPT implemented, not API languages, but what PL(s)
         | was used to create the code - C++, Java, Go?
         | 
         | I may be bad at navigating the CDC website, but I can't seem to
         | get the dataset of numbers of hospitalizations by vaccination
         | status, only rates or pre-filtered data. I do remember
         | downloading raw data that seemed to have it (over 1.8gb, I
         | think), but I can't seem to find it. I'd appreciate a link if
         | anyone has it.
         | 
         | [1]
         | https://covid-19.ontario.ca/data/hospitalizations#hospitaliz...
         | 
         | [2] https://github.com/phantomics/april
        
       | jll29 wrote:
       | It's funny to read about a dashboard with TBs of memory and
       | distributed DBs when on HN, people pride themselves on getting
       | Web servers to run on floppy disk based systems.
       | 
       | Joking aside, I liked the description of the dashboard, and
       | generally speaking the UK's government Web sites are better
       | quality, support open data more, are easier to read and navigate
       | than other European countries from what I have seen. This
       | includes this dashboard, which looks clean, simple and
       | functional.
       | 
       | I was waiting for the big SQL Server advertising language and
       | positively suprised that the article is very tech agnostic. I did
       | all seem to be rather over-engineered, but Microsoft needs to
       | make some money and government agencies don't generally have
       | wizards from HN working for them, so I can live with an
       | occasionally over-engineered system as long as important systems
       | are working and remain up.
       | 
       | The most mysterious part for me was why one would put JSON inside
       | relational tables?
        
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