[HN Gopher] The Torsus Praetorian 4x4 school bus is here to end ...
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       The Torsus Praetorian 4x4 school bus is here to end all snow days
       (2020)
        
       Author : app4soft
       Score  : 26 points
       Date   : 2022-01-22 12:56 UTC (1 days ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.thedrive.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.thedrive.com)
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | app4soft wrote:
       | _The Drive_ on Twitter:
       | 
       | > _Sorry, the Torsus Praetorian 4x4 school bus is here to end all
       | snow days:_ [0]
       | 
       | [0] https://twitter.com/thedrive/status/1484752697978990597
        
       | thriftwy wrote:
       | Looks like a PAZ with bells and whistles.
       | 
       | https://i.artfile.ru/1920x1320_1507055_[www.ArtFile.ru].jpg
        
       | bitwize wrote:
       | Congratulations, Torsus, you have made simultaneously the best
       | and worst thing ever for an eight-year-old boy. You get to ride
       | to school in a monster truck... on days that school would've
       | normally been cancelled.
        
       | JoeyBananas wrote:
       | School buses need to last for decades. Lots of school buses have
       | 250k+ miles on the odometer. When I was in highschool, I rode on
       | a school bus with over 1 million miles. The thing was ancient and
       | you could feel every gear change.
        
         | AnotherGoodName wrote:
         | A different perspective: it's weird that school buses that only
         | run two routes per day exist. That has to be one of the most
         | underutiluzed forms of public transport.
         | 
         | My home country Australia has free public transport for
         | children. The public transport system gets kids to school and
         | back with no issues. You don't get drivers and busses
         | underutilized either.
        
           | bpodgursky wrote:
           | They don't only run two routes per day; most US districts
           | stagger elementary, middle, and high-school start times so
           | the same busses can be used for all of those systems.
           | 
           | (this leads to other problems with kids waking up early, ofc)
           | 
           | > My home country Australia has free public transport for
           | children
           | 
           | I am not opposed to this when possible, but I'm suspicious of
           | the implication that Australia either has (1) convenient,
           | frequent bus service in all suburbs or (2) no suburbs.
           | 
           | Edit: little bit of research:
           | 
           | > The vast majority of schools in Australia (both government
           | and private) do not have their own buses for transporting
           | children between the school and their home and thus most
           | school children in Australia that do travel by bus travel on
           | public transport buses, either on standard scheduled public
           | transport routes, or on specific 'school travel' routes. Most
           | school routes do not allow the general adult public to ride
           | along with the children, although this does vary by location
           | according to practicality (i.e. remote areas) and local
           | regulation.
           | 
           | Ok yeah so you end up with kids-only "school routes" for a
           | lot of public busses when public transit doesn't align,
           | nominally within the same public transit system... cool, but
           | that doesn't really seem completely different from the US
           | system.
        
             | bitwize wrote:
             | > I am not opposed to this when possible, but I'm
             | suspicious of the implication that Australia either has (1)
             | convenient, frequent bus service in all suburbs or (2) no
             | suburbs.
             | 
             | From what I observed in Queensland... a mix of both,
             | actually. There are suburbs, but the distance from CBD to
             | bush is much shorter than the corresponding distance in the
             | USA. At the same time, there is an extensive public transit
             | network that competing private carriers participate in. The
             | government sets routes and establishes the payment system,
             | the carriers drive the routes and and keep prices
             | reasonable and the service good. I was quite pleasantly
             | surprised by Queensland's bus network.
        
             | Symbiote wrote:
             | > kids-only "school routes" for a lot of public busses when
             | public transit doesn't align
             | 
             | The same vehicles and probably the same drivers (or a
             | subset) are used, which should cost less.
             | 
             | I think it's only the USA and Canada that have a separate
             | design of vehicle for school buses.
             | 
             | (Why are American school buses such an old design? E.g.
             | this [1], which is the first modern one listed on the
             | Wikipedia School Bus article, has a high enough cab that it
             | needs loads of mirrors for the driver to see around, and
             | has a high floor (so several steps to get in).
             | 
             | A typical bus used in European cities is this Mercedes [2].
             | The driver has a better view, there is only the one step to
             | get in, and it can be lowered [3].)
             | 
             | [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Saf-T-Liner_C2
             | 
             | [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Citaro
             | 
             | [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr5BSIFB_GY
        
         | app4soft wrote:
         | Here is "How Ukrainians Created the Worlds First Off Road Bus"
         | official post by Torsus Off Road Bus, posted after being
         | interviewed[0,1] by _" European Pravda"_ in August 2018:
         | 
         | > _The EP (European Pravda -ed.) learned Ukrainians managed to
         | create the world's first off road bus, within a year, and why
         | they want to buy it in the US, Australia, Canada, Bangladesh,
         | Georgia and New Zealand._ [1]
         | 
         | > _In parallel, the company is in talks with representatives of
         | car factories in the US, Turkey and Ukraine, on the launch of
         | large scale production. Requests for a bus have already arrived
         | from the US, Australia, Canada, Georgia, Bangladesh and New
         | Zealand._
         | 
         | [0] https://twitter.com/epravda/status/1029613756165369856
         | 
         | [1] https://www.epravda.com.ua/publications/2018/08/15/639623/
         | 
         | [1]
         | http://web.archive.org/web/20190208234645/https://www.torsus...
        
           | NickNameNick wrote:
           | Thats weird, because off-road busses have been operating in
           | NZ for at least 30 years.
           | 
           | eg the farewell spit tourist operation
           | 
           | https://www.google.com/search?q=farewell+spit+bus&tbm=isch
           | 
           | I recall these used to be built on unimog bodies, so
           | incredibly capable, but underused/expensive.
           | 
           | And various truck-based busses used for skiing in winter, and
           | adventure tourism in summer
           | 
           | eg https://queenstownweddings.org/listing/nz-ski-bus-
           | charters-2...
        
       | mbfg wrote:
       | And then came covid and did away with the snow day first, for
       | free.
        
       | markdown wrote:
       | Looks like a Tonka or Hot Wheels toy.
        
       | fnord77 wrote:
       | this looks like a rendering. how is it "here" ?
        
       | throwaway0a5e wrote:
       | The bus isn't the problem. They use school busses in all sorts of
       | vocational environments (e.g oil field) that can be characterized
       | as "mud pit". The (typically) elderly driver and insane parents
       | who screech about safety at the mere hint of a dusting are the
       | problem.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | Where do you live? Snow is common enough throughout nearly the
         | entire northern half of the lower 48 that "the mere hint of a
         | dusting" is not enough to call a snow day. Where I grew up in
         | the northeast, it practically took a whiteout before they would
         | call school off.
        
       | fasteddie31003 wrote:
       | Yes please. I'll come back in 10 years to get the used version
       | and convert it into an off-road RV.
        
       | mark-r wrote:
       | Cute gimmick, but not being able to get school busses through the
       | snow are not why schools have snow days. They do it because they
       | don't want kinds dying of exposure while waiting at the bus stop.
        
         | kurthr wrote:
         | Yeah, or teachers getting to school? Probably lots of reasons,
         | including a lack of funding for expensive busses in places
         | where it doesn't snow enough to have plows at the ready.
        
         | mc32 wrote:
         | >but not being able to get school busses through the snow are
         | not why schools have snow days.
         | 
         | I think schools suspend class during heavy snow (definition
         | depends on locale) but most snow days are warmer than the
         | coldest days of winter and they do not suspend school due to
         | "freezing days" with exceptions for extremely cold days.
        
       | acchow wrote:
       | > A 6.9-liter turbodiesel inline-six engine sends 290 horsepower
       | and 848 pound-feet of torque
       | 
       | Seems a bit anachronistic in 2022, no?
       | 
       | If you want a ton of power and torque, why wouldn't you go
       | electric?
        
         | FastEatSlow wrote:
         | The school districts/bus company would have to install electric
         | chargers, which while could come out cheaper overall, is still
         | a tougher sell than a standard engine.
        
         | azth wrote:
         | Long term reliability and maintenance costs need to be proven.
        
           | acchow wrote:
           | How do you prove the long-term reliability of a new engine
           | design?
           | 
           | An electromagnetic motor and drivetrain is incredibly simple
        
             | userbinator wrote:
             | Don't forget the batteries... which are not known to work
             | well in low temperatures.
        
       | gnabgib wrote:
       | There are no photos (article seems to include only renders), and
       | no easy way to get a sense of scale. But if this is really
       | designed for children: What about ingress and egress?
       | 
       | Using the one measurement: "14.4 inches of ground clearance"..
       | the first ladder-step is 16-18" off the ground, with the second
       | being perhaps a little closer.. maybe 15" above (this is just a
       | guestimate from the images). There are no obvious hand holds.
       | It's not clear if the bottom of the door ends at the metal/bumper
       | divide or in the bumper section (possibly the small orange light
       | is on the door), but perhaps the door provides a small amount of
       | climbing assistance (on one side only). How is a small child,
       | someone not particularly agile, or even someone later in life
       | going to board (climbing?) or exit (jump?) this thing? Especially
       | with cargo? It's strange they mention the decoration on the
       | seats, but not how it could actually be used.
       | 
       | Update: The Torus website[0] (which this article (by way of a
       | another by Auto Express) just seems to be printing a press
       | releases from) goes into a bit more detail, there is a mid-body
       | door which can optionally have a pneumatic pop-out step, which
       | will improve things (it's still a steep decline - would children
       | be expected to board here too?) Only renders there too. Auto
       | Express estimates the bus approximately costs an eye watering
       | $475K USD
       | 
       | [0]: https://torsus.eu/en/praetorian/school-bus
        
         | consp wrote:
         | > "14.4 inches of ground clearance".. the first ladder-step is
         | 16-18"
         | 
         | I would be less concerned with in/egress but more with dead
         | kids due to them getting under the bus. There is a reason most
         | busses (and trucks) in countries with proper road laws have
         | required ground clearance shielding on all large vehicles to
         | avoid people getting under them and being driven over. This is
         | a massive step back in that respect and idiotic for a non
         | existent usecase since the kids will be brought to a school
         | which is closed anyway due to every other person not being
         | there.
         | 
         | edit: and I mean this for all the other 360 days of the year
         | since it won't be in the shed and only come out for snowy days.
        
         | fennecfoxen wrote:
         | They have other Torsus buses that are basically the same
         | vehicle, I'm sure you can find some.
         | 
         | > How is a small child, someone not particularly agile, or even
         | someone later in life going to board (climbing?) or exit
         | (jump?) this thing? Especially with cargo?
         | 
         | "With assistance and some modest level of risk", I'd imagine.
        
         | bitwize wrote:
         | A lot of buses, both school and commercial, come with extra
         | equipment to help people board. If this thing is to be
         | outfitted as a school bus, presumably it would have extra steps
         | or a ramp or something as an add-on.
        
       | ekidd wrote:
       | It's a fun looking piece of equipment, but it costs at least
       | twice what a ordinary, brand new school bus costs. And as other
       | posters point out, school buses see a lot of miles during their
       | lifetimes.
       | 
       | In the northern US, excluding Alaska, I _think_ that most school
       | districts try to keep snow days (cancelations) under 5/year, and
       | the average is lower.
       | 
       | I doubt it would make sense to pay at least twice as much for
       | buses in order to allow schools to open 3 to 5 more days per
       | year. How many districts in the world see enough snow days to
       | make this worthwhile?
        
         | masklinn wrote:
         | This looks like a marketing stunt and little more. Places where
         | you'd need to use an off-road school bus, the density would
         | probably be too low for a bus to make sense at all.
        
         | zardo wrote:
         | Cities that would get snow locked often tend to operate a snow
         | plow fleet.
        
         | bagacrap wrote:
         | And a lot of kids don't even take the bus anyway, nor do staff,
         | so I don't see how this helps eliminate snow days, but yeah
         | this is mostly an ad
        
       | nimbius wrote:
       | disclosure: I am a diesel mechanic and i work on large commuter
       | busses as well.
       | 
       | Do you want the money to go to schools and learning, or opulently
       | thumbing your nose to kris kringle two or three days a year. I
       | thought remote learning had basically axed the snow day
       | anyway...a few big issues:
       | 
       | 0. you cannot load a child onto a vehicle thats 2 feet off the
       | ground.
       | 
       | 1. most school bus drivers in the US dont have a CDL. now try to
       | find one willing to pilot a half million dollar all wheel nine
       | speed with electronic transfer (while screaming kids are in the
       | back) and youll find skilled over the road drivers arent
       | interested in this.
       | 
       | 2. any driver you do find wants lot pay, holidays, benefits and
       | 80k a year guaranteed. school bus drivers earn just a little more
       | than minimum wage for about half a years work.
       | 
       | 3. whoever you get to drive this still has an option to tell you
       | to pound sand. most OTR long haulers or regional drivers will
       | never drive in conditions too adverse to control the vehicle.
       | 
       | 4. this vehicle _might_ make it through a bad snow storm but not
       | at a speed youre likely to enjoy. the kind of storms this thing
       | is rated to tackle, most kids arent.
       | 
       | 5. IF it becomes stuck, or the driver isnt competent, youve
       | turned a regrettable snow day into a massive rescue effort that
       | imperils dozens of kids.
        
         | joe_the_user wrote:
         | _most school bus drivers in the US dont have a CDL._
         | 
         | Great post generally but I don't think this is true, it doesn't
         | jive with the bus driver friends I've known nor with a quick
         | Google. A CDL is defined in California and most states I know
         | of a license for someone transporting passengers or cargo for
         | pay - and the Feds set the standard[1]. You drive your own 40'
         | RV with a car license but driving ten kids in a van requires a
         | CDL (commercial drivers license), not necessarily the same
         | qualifications as a big driver but still a CDL.
         | 
         | [1] https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-
         | li...
         | 
         | But still, a school bus driver indeed isn't going to qualified
         | to drive some random. The 4x4 school bus idea is indeed dumb.
        
         | jethro_tell wrote:
         | Also, is that thing gonna pick up the front office staff, the
         | teachers, janitors or any security staff? Food vendors for
         | lunch programs or other supply vendors.
         | 
         | There's so much more than just kids walking to school up hill
         | both ways in the snow.
         | 
         | For an area that doesn't have a lot of snow days, it's as much
         | the operational logistics and cost of running the school during
         | a snow day as it is getting the kids there.
         | 
         | You have all your regular shit, plus traffic is going to move
         | slower, because that's how it works in the snow, so people are
         | late or have to start earlier, you have to clear enough snow
         | (and possibly maintain that through out the day) so that there
         | isn't a neglegent risk in injury. Most schools are pretty much
         | right at or below capacity for staffing in a good day, let
         | alone one where they start late with extra chores.
         | 
         | And for all that what do you get? A bunch of kids spacing out
         | wishing they were sledding.
        
           | TheCraiggers wrote:
           | > Also, is that thing gonna pick up the front office staff,
           | the teachers, janitors or any security staff? Food vendors
           | for lunch programs or other supply vendors.
           | 
           | Of course not, but they're _adults_ who are expected to put
           | their lives and personal property on the line and drive into
           | work anyway. Just look at how few snow days college staff
           | get, or any other  "non-essential" worker. Or the workplace
           | that says "safety first" but still expects you to hit to
           | highway in a foot of snow.
        
       | joebob42 wrote:
       | Remote learning may not be perfect, but to the extent we truly
       | need to "end all snow days", it seems like it should be
       | sufficient, no?
        
         | rdtwo wrote:
         | Remote "learning" is worthless for most kids. Just more work
         | for adults than nothing at all
        
       | frozenport wrote:
       | Places like Tromso would love this:
       | 
       | 1. Temperatures don't get too cold, rather there is too much snow
       | 2. Normal vehicles get stuck on non-snowdays. Its not about "snow
       | days", its about regular operation. 3. Tons of money
        
       | [deleted]
        
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       (page generated 2022-01-23 23:00 UTC)