[HN Gopher] The Torsus Praetorian 4x4 school bus is here to end ...
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The Torsus Praetorian 4x4 school bus is here to end all snow days
(2020)
Author : app4soft
Score : 26 points
Date : 2022-01-22 12:56 UTC (1 days ago)
(HTM) web link (www.thedrive.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.thedrive.com)
| [deleted]
| [deleted]
| app4soft wrote:
| _The Drive_ on Twitter:
|
| > _Sorry, the Torsus Praetorian 4x4 school bus is here to end all
| snow days:_ [0]
|
| [0] https://twitter.com/thedrive/status/1484752697978990597
| thriftwy wrote:
| Looks like a PAZ with bells and whistles.
|
| https://i.artfile.ru/1920x1320_1507055_[www.ArtFile.ru].jpg
| bitwize wrote:
| Congratulations, Torsus, you have made simultaneously the best
| and worst thing ever for an eight-year-old boy. You get to ride
| to school in a monster truck... on days that school would've
| normally been cancelled.
| JoeyBananas wrote:
| School buses need to last for decades. Lots of school buses have
| 250k+ miles on the odometer. When I was in highschool, I rode on
| a school bus with over 1 million miles. The thing was ancient and
| you could feel every gear change.
| AnotherGoodName wrote:
| A different perspective: it's weird that school buses that only
| run two routes per day exist. That has to be one of the most
| underutiluzed forms of public transport.
|
| My home country Australia has free public transport for
| children. The public transport system gets kids to school and
| back with no issues. You don't get drivers and busses
| underutilized either.
| bpodgursky wrote:
| They don't only run two routes per day; most US districts
| stagger elementary, middle, and high-school start times so
| the same busses can be used for all of those systems.
|
| (this leads to other problems with kids waking up early, ofc)
|
| > My home country Australia has free public transport for
| children
|
| I am not opposed to this when possible, but I'm suspicious of
| the implication that Australia either has (1) convenient,
| frequent bus service in all suburbs or (2) no suburbs.
|
| Edit: little bit of research:
|
| > The vast majority of schools in Australia (both government
| and private) do not have their own buses for transporting
| children between the school and their home and thus most
| school children in Australia that do travel by bus travel on
| public transport buses, either on standard scheduled public
| transport routes, or on specific 'school travel' routes. Most
| school routes do not allow the general adult public to ride
| along with the children, although this does vary by location
| according to practicality (i.e. remote areas) and local
| regulation.
|
| Ok yeah so you end up with kids-only "school routes" for a
| lot of public busses when public transit doesn't align,
| nominally within the same public transit system... cool, but
| that doesn't really seem completely different from the US
| system.
| bitwize wrote:
| > I am not opposed to this when possible, but I'm
| suspicious of the implication that Australia either has (1)
| convenient, frequent bus service in all suburbs or (2) no
| suburbs.
|
| From what I observed in Queensland... a mix of both,
| actually. There are suburbs, but the distance from CBD to
| bush is much shorter than the corresponding distance in the
| USA. At the same time, there is an extensive public transit
| network that competing private carriers participate in. The
| government sets routes and establishes the payment system,
| the carriers drive the routes and and keep prices
| reasonable and the service good. I was quite pleasantly
| surprised by Queensland's bus network.
| Symbiote wrote:
| > kids-only "school routes" for a lot of public busses when
| public transit doesn't align
|
| The same vehicles and probably the same drivers (or a
| subset) are used, which should cost less.
|
| I think it's only the USA and Canada that have a separate
| design of vehicle for school buses.
|
| (Why are American school buses such an old design? E.g.
| this [1], which is the first modern one listed on the
| Wikipedia School Bus article, has a high enough cab that it
| needs loads of mirrors for the driver to see around, and
| has a high floor (so several steps to get in).
|
| A typical bus used in European cities is this Mercedes [2].
| The driver has a better view, there is only the one step to
| get in, and it can be lowered [3].)
|
| [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Saf-T-Liner_C2
|
| [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercedes-Benz_Citaro
|
| [3] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr5BSIFB_GY
| app4soft wrote:
| Here is "How Ukrainians Created the Worlds First Off Road Bus"
| official post by Torsus Off Road Bus, posted after being
| interviewed[0,1] by _" European Pravda"_ in August 2018:
|
| > _The EP (European Pravda -ed.) learned Ukrainians managed to
| create the world's first off road bus, within a year, and why
| they want to buy it in the US, Australia, Canada, Bangladesh,
| Georgia and New Zealand._ [1]
|
| > _In parallel, the company is in talks with representatives of
| car factories in the US, Turkey and Ukraine, on the launch of
| large scale production. Requests for a bus have already arrived
| from the US, Australia, Canada, Georgia, Bangladesh and New
| Zealand._
|
| [0] https://twitter.com/epravda/status/1029613756165369856
|
| [1] https://www.epravda.com.ua/publications/2018/08/15/639623/
|
| [1]
| http://web.archive.org/web/20190208234645/https://www.torsus...
| NickNameNick wrote:
| Thats weird, because off-road busses have been operating in
| NZ for at least 30 years.
|
| eg the farewell spit tourist operation
|
| https://www.google.com/search?q=farewell+spit+bus&tbm=isch
|
| I recall these used to be built on unimog bodies, so
| incredibly capable, but underused/expensive.
|
| And various truck-based busses used for skiing in winter, and
| adventure tourism in summer
|
| eg https://queenstownweddings.org/listing/nz-ski-bus-
| charters-2...
| mbfg wrote:
| And then came covid and did away with the snow day first, for
| free.
| markdown wrote:
| Looks like a Tonka or Hot Wheels toy.
| fnord77 wrote:
| this looks like a rendering. how is it "here" ?
| throwaway0a5e wrote:
| The bus isn't the problem. They use school busses in all sorts of
| vocational environments (e.g oil field) that can be characterized
| as "mud pit". The (typically) elderly driver and insane parents
| who screech about safety at the mere hint of a dusting are the
| problem.
| bitwize wrote:
| Where do you live? Snow is common enough throughout nearly the
| entire northern half of the lower 48 that "the mere hint of a
| dusting" is not enough to call a snow day. Where I grew up in
| the northeast, it practically took a whiteout before they would
| call school off.
| fasteddie31003 wrote:
| Yes please. I'll come back in 10 years to get the used version
| and convert it into an off-road RV.
| mark-r wrote:
| Cute gimmick, but not being able to get school busses through the
| snow are not why schools have snow days. They do it because they
| don't want kinds dying of exposure while waiting at the bus stop.
| kurthr wrote:
| Yeah, or teachers getting to school? Probably lots of reasons,
| including a lack of funding for expensive busses in places
| where it doesn't snow enough to have plows at the ready.
| mc32 wrote:
| >but not being able to get school busses through the snow are
| not why schools have snow days.
|
| I think schools suspend class during heavy snow (definition
| depends on locale) but most snow days are warmer than the
| coldest days of winter and they do not suspend school due to
| "freezing days" with exceptions for extremely cold days.
| acchow wrote:
| > A 6.9-liter turbodiesel inline-six engine sends 290 horsepower
| and 848 pound-feet of torque
|
| Seems a bit anachronistic in 2022, no?
|
| If you want a ton of power and torque, why wouldn't you go
| electric?
| FastEatSlow wrote:
| The school districts/bus company would have to install electric
| chargers, which while could come out cheaper overall, is still
| a tougher sell than a standard engine.
| azth wrote:
| Long term reliability and maintenance costs need to be proven.
| acchow wrote:
| How do you prove the long-term reliability of a new engine
| design?
|
| An electromagnetic motor and drivetrain is incredibly simple
| userbinator wrote:
| Don't forget the batteries... which are not known to work
| well in low temperatures.
| gnabgib wrote:
| There are no photos (article seems to include only renders), and
| no easy way to get a sense of scale. But if this is really
| designed for children: What about ingress and egress?
|
| Using the one measurement: "14.4 inches of ground clearance"..
| the first ladder-step is 16-18" off the ground, with the second
| being perhaps a little closer.. maybe 15" above (this is just a
| guestimate from the images). There are no obvious hand holds.
| It's not clear if the bottom of the door ends at the metal/bumper
| divide or in the bumper section (possibly the small orange light
| is on the door), but perhaps the door provides a small amount of
| climbing assistance (on one side only). How is a small child,
| someone not particularly agile, or even someone later in life
| going to board (climbing?) or exit (jump?) this thing? Especially
| with cargo? It's strange they mention the decoration on the
| seats, but not how it could actually be used.
|
| Update: The Torus website[0] (which this article (by way of a
| another by Auto Express) just seems to be printing a press
| releases from) goes into a bit more detail, there is a mid-body
| door which can optionally have a pneumatic pop-out step, which
| will improve things (it's still a steep decline - would children
| be expected to board here too?) Only renders there too. Auto
| Express estimates the bus approximately costs an eye watering
| $475K USD
|
| [0]: https://torsus.eu/en/praetorian/school-bus
| consp wrote:
| > "14.4 inches of ground clearance".. the first ladder-step is
| 16-18"
|
| I would be less concerned with in/egress but more with dead
| kids due to them getting under the bus. There is a reason most
| busses (and trucks) in countries with proper road laws have
| required ground clearance shielding on all large vehicles to
| avoid people getting under them and being driven over. This is
| a massive step back in that respect and idiotic for a non
| existent usecase since the kids will be brought to a school
| which is closed anyway due to every other person not being
| there.
|
| edit: and I mean this for all the other 360 days of the year
| since it won't be in the shed and only come out for snowy days.
| fennecfoxen wrote:
| They have other Torsus buses that are basically the same
| vehicle, I'm sure you can find some.
|
| > How is a small child, someone not particularly agile, or even
| someone later in life going to board (climbing?) or exit
| (jump?) this thing? Especially with cargo?
|
| "With assistance and some modest level of risk", I'd imagine.
| bitwize wrote:
| A lot of buses, both school and commercial, come with extra
| equipment to help people board. If this thing is to be
| outfitted as a school bus, presumably it would have extra steps
| or a ramp or something as an add-on.
| ekidd wrote:
| It's a fun looking piece of equipment, but it costs at least
| twice what a ordinary, brand new school bus costs. And as other
| posters point out, school buses see a lot of miles during their
| lifetimes.
|
| In the northern US, excluding Alaska, I _think_ that most school
| districts try to keep snow days (cancelations) under 5/year, and
| the average is lower.
|
| I doubt it would make sense to pay at least twice as much for
| buses in order to allow schools to open 3 to 5 more days per
| year. How many districts in the world see enough snow days to
| make this worthwhile?
| masklinn wrote:
| This looks like a marketing stunt and little more. Places where
| you'd need to use an off-road school bus, the density would
| probably be too low for a bus to make sense at all.
| zardo wrote:
| Cities that would get snow locked often tend to operate a snow
| plow fleet.
| bagacrap wrote:
| And a lot of kids don't even take the bus anyway, nor do staff,
| so I don't see how this helps eliminate snow days, but yeah
| this is mostly an ad
| nimbius wrote:
| disclosure: I am a diesel mechanic and i work on large commuter
| busses as well.
|
| Do you want the money to go to schools and learning, or opulently
| thumbing your nose to kris kringle two or three days a year. I
| thought remote learning had basically axed the snow day
| anyway...a few big issues:
|
| 0. you cannot load a child onto a vehicle thats 2 feet off the
| ground.
|
| 1. most school bus drivers in the US dont have a CDL. now try to
| find one willing to pilot a half million dollar all wheel nine
| speed with electronic transfer (while screaming kids are in the
| back) and youll find skilled over the road drivers arent
| interested in this.
|
| 2. any driver you do find wants lot pay, holidays, benefits and
| 80k a year guaranteed. school bus drivers earn just a little more
| than minimum wage for about half a years work.
|
| 3. whoever you get to drive this still has an option to tell you
| to pound sand. most OTR long haulers or regional drivers will
| never drive in conditions too adverse to control the vehicle.
|
| 4. this vehicle _might_ make it through a bad snow storm but not
| at a speed youre likely to enjoy. the kind of storms this thing
| is rated to tackle, most kids arent.
|
| 5. IF it becomes stuck, or the driver isnt competent, youve
| turned a regrettable snow day into a massive rescue effort that
| imperils dozens of kids.
| joe_the_user wrote:
| _most school bus drivers in the US dont have a CDL._
|
| Great post generally but I don't think this is true, it doesn't
| jive with the bus driver friends I've known nor with a quick
| Google. A CDL is defined in California and most states I know
| of a license for someone transporting passengers or cargo for
| pay - and the Feds set the standard[1]. You drive your own 40'
| RV with a car license but driving ten kids in a van requires a
| CDL (commercial drivers license), not necessarily the same
| qualifications as a big driver but still a CDL.
|
| [1] https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/registration/commercial-drivers-
| li...
|
| But still, a school bus driver indeed isn't going to qualified
| to drive some random. The 4x4 school bus idea is indeed dumb.
| jethro_tell wrote:
| Also, is that thing gonna pick up the front office staff, the
| teachers, janitors or any security staff? Food vendors for
| lunch programs or other supply vendors.
|
| There's so much more than just kids walking to school up hill
| both ways in the snow.
|
| For an area that doesn't have a lot of snow days, it's as much
| the operational logistics and cost of running the school during
| a snow day as it is getting the kids there.
|
| You have all your regular shit, plus traffic is going to move
| slower, because that's how it works in the snow, so people are
| late or have to start earlier, you have to clear enough snow
| (and possibly maintain that through out the day) so that there
| isn't a neglegent risk in injury. Most schools are pretty much
| right at or below capacity for staffing in a good day, let
| alone one where they start late with extra chores.
|
| And for all that what do you get? A bunch of kids spacing out
| wishing they were sledding.
| TheCraiggers wrote:
| > Also, is that thing gonna pick up the front office staff,
| the teachers, janitors or any security staff? Food vendors
| for lunch programs or other supply vendors.
|
| Of course not, but they're _adults_ who are expected to put
| their lives and personal property on the line and drive into
| work anyway. Just look at how few snow days college staff
| get, or any other "non-essential" worker. Or the workplace
| that says "safety first" but still expects you to hit to
| highway in a foot of snow.
| joebob42 wrote:
| Remote learning may not be perfect, but to the extent we truly
| need to "end all snow days", it seems like it should be
| sufficient, no?
| rdtwo wrote:
| Remote "learning" is worthless for most kids. Just more work
| for adults than nothing at all
| frozenport wrote:
| Places like Tromso would love this:
|
| 1. Temperatures don't get too cold, rather there is too much snow
| 2. Normal vehicles get stuck on non-snowdays. Its not about "snow
| days", its about regular operation. 3. Tons of money
| [deleted]
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(page generated 2022-01-23 23:00 UTC)