[HN Gopher] Music subscriber market shares Q2 2021
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Music subscriber market shares Q2 2021
        
       Author : YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo
       Score  : 84 points
       Date   : 2022-01-20 19:37 UTC (3 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.midiaresearch.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.midiaresearch.com)
        
       | aparticulate wrote:
       | sluggish UI aside, I really don't like Apple Music's TASTE in
       | music. Spotify's playlists are reliably more niche. Apple is far
       | more "GRAMMY/Top 40"-oriented and that's just not interesting to
       | me.
       | 
       | Also, Apple should have bought Rdio.
        
         | circa wrote:
         | If you think Apple's TASTE is bad, you should try TIDAL. Its
         | really bad.
        
           | sleepyhead wrote:
           | Music curation was actually what made Tidal (Wimp) great in
           | the first place. They didn't have the tech that Spotify had,
           | and at the time the Spotify AI wasn't very good either, so
           | the Tidal curated lists were really good and much better than
           | the AI-generated (?) ones from Spotify. Things changed after
           | Jay-Z stepped in, Tidal recommending Jay-z & friends is one
           | example. Don't know if manual list curation is still a
           | priority for them.
           | 
           | Besides, perhaps your taste in music is not aligned with most
           | others.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _I really don 't like Apple Music's TASTE in music._
         | 
         | I'm with you there.
         | 
         | Apple (and really all the streaming services) are constantly
         | crowing about how many millions of songs they have. How about
         | some metric for how many _good_ songs they have?
         | 
         | 80% of my wife's record collection is not available on Apple
         | Music, so I'm left ripping her records in what used to be my
         | spare time.
         | 
         | The only reason we have Apple Music is for when an artist she
         | follows puts out a new record, so she can listen to the album
         | to decide if it's worth buying.
         | 
         | Also, Apple Music's Siri integration is horrendous. For
         | example, no matter what request I shout to it, Siri can only
         | play one particular song by Weird Al Yankovich. My guess is
         | that there's something with the quotation marks commonly used
         | in his name screwing up Apple's search mechanism.
         | 
         | I have high hopes for Apple's new classical streaming service.
         | It has a chance to redeem itself there.
        
           | prox wrote:
           | I recently bought https://jriver.com/ Jriver Media Center and
           | it is a audiophile dream. I am going back to ripping my old
           | CDs and having my own local library.
        
           | poulsbohemian wrote:
           | >80% of my wife's record collection is not available on Apple
           | Music
           | 
           | I'm really curious what kind of music is in her collection?
           | I'm always amazed at the obscure stuff that _is_ available...
           | obscure jazz, klezmer, classical recordings, etc...
        
         | cauthon wrote:
         | I totally agree with you. I miss Google Play Music. In addition
         | to a superior queue UI (hey Spotify, let me play a song next),
         | they had the best playlists and song recommendations I've found
         | on a streaming service.
        
           | Steltek wrote:
           | I miss GPM's UI. While I'm a pretty firm YTM customer (price,
           | features, catalog, artist payout feelgoods), the UI is pure
           | trash and annoys the hell out of me. From playlists, queues,
           | browsing, and recommendations, it's all awful.
           | 
           | Thankfully music is mostly "search for that song", "play a
           | mix from this playlist", or "play just this playlist" so no
           | one needs to suffer through it for long.
        
         | MajorBee wrote:
         | I have a slightly more cynical take on why Spotify pushes niche
         | bands and music so much (in fact, I can't even remember the
         | last time I saw an "established" band in my Discover Weekly
         | playlist) -- Spotify doesn't have to pay out that much per
         | listen for these niche bands, while having, say, Beyonce or
         | Drake pop up on millions of subscribers' weekly playlist would
         | eat in their margins.
        
           | afsafsaf wrote:
           | Discover Weekly is a playlist meant to surface less known
           | artists that you might like.
        
       | zuminator wrote:
       | Apple Music comes "free" with my phone service, and I use it
       | sometimes. YouTube Premium is a must for me, and it comes with
       | YouTube Music, which I use very occasionally. Yet I still
       | subscribe to, and overwhelmingly use Spotify. It just seems much
       | more organized and discoverable than the other two services. Also
       | I don't make personal playlists because I enjoy listening to
       | unknown music interspersed with my favorites, and Spotify seems
       | to be the best at giving me the right mixture of that.
       | 
       | There are some music genres that Spotify is somewhat deficient in
       | compared with Apple, but it's been getting better in that respect
       | little by little.
        
       | daigoba66 wrote:
       | I still miss Rdio.
        
       | cardosof wrote:
       | Correct me if I'm wrong: the first and second ones in market
       | share aren't the most interesting part. What's insightful is that
       | Amazon is at third. Spotify is a pure player in the space and
       | with it's years of growth it makes sense to be #1. Apple, while
       | not a pure player as Spotify, has a good share of the mobile
       | devices market and smartwatch, and that and music go hand in
       | hand. Amazon? To Amazon music is just another thing in their
       | miryad of things, and they're still at the top.
        
         | msbarnett wrote:
         | Amazon Music is a throw-in on Prime, so technically I "have" it
         | as a subscriber to Prime, but I've literally never used it.
         | 
         | Of all of the players in this space, it's not clear to me that
         | Amazon's "subscriber share" reflects anything at all
         | considering that it's not something you subscribe to on its own
         | and not generally considered a major benefit of the
         | subscription it's included in. Would be interesting to see what
         | the actual usage statistics look like.
        
           | mupuff1234 wrote:
           | I'm a prime user and wasn't even aware of Amazon music.
           | 
           | I'm guessing that when Alexa plays music it counts as an
           | Amazon music user.
        
       | poulsbohemian wrote:
       | I expect Apple Music to continue to erode market share of these
       | competitors... Apple One is just too compelling to be avoided,
       | once you are in the Apple ecosphere. We had a Spotify family
       | plan, but its a domino thing - once you start using one service,
       | like AppleTV, it becomes a no-brainer to just switch everything
       | over to apple rather than pay for different services. Is Spotify
       | better for some people? Possibly, but for many (like myself)
       | Apple Music was "good enough."
       | 
       | I do agree with schoolornot's post that Apple wasted a lot of
       | time and let Spotify get farther ahead than they should have. It
       | definitely feels like Apple has been agonizingly slow to push out
       | and improve services.
        
       | izacus wrote:
       | One player is missing on this table, the biggest one: YouTube.
       | Not Music, just YouTube. They're beating all others in play
       | counts by a magnitude.
        
         | Tenoke wrote:
         | That's what I use 99% of the time though perhaps I should check
         | out what YouTube Music is about.
         | 
         | Edit: Checked it out and some of the songs in my playlists are
         | grayed out in Music perhaps because it thinks those are non-
         | music videos but nonetheless it looks inferior for my purposes.
        
       | sedeki wrote:
       | I don't see YouTube Music mentioned anywhere in the report?
        
         | deadmutex wrote:
         | "YouTube Music was the only Western DSP to increase global
         | market share during this the period. YouTube Music particularly
         | resonates among Gen Z and younger Millennials, which should
         | have alarm bells ringing for Spotify, as their core base of
         | Millennial subscribers from the 2010s in the West are now
         | beginning to age."
         | 
         | It's also in the chart.
        
       | circa wrote:
       | I made the switch last September from Spotify back to Apple
       | Music.
       | 
       | 1 reason and 1 reason only. Lossless. Why Spotify still doesn't
       | offer this as an option is beyond me. I get that its a small
       | amount of people who care but still why not offer it? I would pay
       | a little more to use their service.
        
         | speedgoose wrote:
         | Do you notice the difference between lossless and 320kbits/s
         | ogg vorbis ?
        
         | DashAnimal wrote:
         | You know, I used to care about lossless but more and more the
         | proof has been stacking on that MP3 compression is an amazing
         | technology and I just don't have the ears to discern. I would
         | love to know how you do in this test:
         | https://www.npr.org/sections/therecord/2015/06/02/411473508/...
         | 
         | For me, it was enough to prove that lossy is good enough for
         | everyday listening.
        
         | criddell wrote:
         | I've been trying to use Apple Music with their web client and
         | it's astonishingly slow. I can't understand how it could be so
         | bad.
        
           | salamandersauce wrote:
           | Yeah it's not good. I've only used a handful of times and
           | every single time it just stopped playing in the middle of a
           | song for no reason. It also sucks that they can't be bothered
           | to create apps for anything other than their own stuff and
           | Android. I can use Amazon music or Spoify with my Garmin
           | Watch but not Apple Music.
        
             | criddell wrote:
             | I think you can still use iTunes on Windows.
        
       | bvm wrote:
       | Am i the only tidal user left?
        
         | sleepyhead wrote:
         | Surprised they are so small. I use Tidal and I'm very happy
         | with it. I switched after Spotify gave a ton of money to the
         | podcast moron Joe Rogan and haven't looked back since (in
         | addition to it being problematic to give money to someone like
         | Joe Rogan, I also dislike how they are trying to own podcasts).
         | 
         | I do wish I were able to use my Tidal iPhone app as a remote
         | like Spotify can and that their AI suggestions would improve
         | (Spotify has become really good here).
        
         | ravenstine wrote:
         | Nope! I'm a happy Tidal customer.
        
         | topaz0 wrote:
         | I wondered the same thing. I use tidal and think that it is
         | good.
        
         | netr0ute wrote:
         | It seems like the kinds of people using Tidal either jumped to
         | Bandcamp or just download all their music.
        
       | fdgsdfogijq wrote:
       | I am long term bearish on Spotify, and if I could isolate Apples
       | music business or Amazons, I would take the following trade all
       | day:
       | 
       | long (aapl music)(amzn music)(youtube music), short Spotify.
       | 
       | Their recommendation engine is just not that good. Youtube Music
       | has a far superior one.
        
         | michaelmarion wrote:
         | I agree on the recommendation piece, but Apple's playlist and
         | library management is atrocious, especially on desktop. Why
         | can't I drag-and-drop music into a playlist in the sidebar?
         | Apple Music also feels (to me, at least) much slower than
         | Spotify. Most likely this is due to the more aggressive client-
         | side caching that Spotify does, but it's worth the trade-off,
         | in my opinion.
         | 
         | These are solvable problems for Apple, though. They need to
         | more cleanly separate the legacy iTunes Store and pay-per-song
         | UX from the Apple Music streaming paradigm. Maybe even have
         | separate apps for them.
        
           | rodgerd wrote:
           | The most frustrating thing in Apple Music for me is that it's
           | album-centric. I can't just say "put this artist in my
           | library". No, I have to put every individual album, EP, and
           | single that I want.
        
         | bradly wrote:
         | I still don't understand how a business can be unprofitable for
         | 16 years. At one point don't you say, "whelp, this isn't going
         | to work"?
        
           | gorjusborg wrote:
           | https://www.barrons.com/articles/spotify-has-finally-
           | found-a...
        
             | bradly wrote:
             | Oh nice. They are getting close! Still unprofitable, but
             | maybe year seventeen is the sweet spot.
        
             | [deleted]
        
         | gorjusborg wrote:
         | All I have to say to that is that I'd lend you my Spotify
         | shares to complete the trade.
        
       | fourseventy wrote:
       | I was a long time user of Google Play Music until they killed it
       | and moved everyone over to the inferior YouTube Music product. I
       | suffuer through it mostly because it comes bundled with YouTube+
       | which removes ads.
        
         | refulgentis wrote:
         | It's doing fairly well - the report says its the only service
         | that grew last year. I loved that Google Play Music still had a
         | trad aughts iTunes approach to things, but it was confusing and
         | out of sync with the market. YouTube Music is pretty awesome
         | IMHO.
        
         | lewisinc wrote:
         | I use the Vinegar extension for Safari which replaces the
         | YouTube player for a simple HTML5 <video> tag and consequently
         | removes the ads. Don't know if there's alternatives for other
         | browsers, but worth looking into if this is all that's keeping
         | you there.
        
           | st3ve445678 wrote:
           | Firefox with ublock origin extension also removes all ads
           | from youtube.
        
         | anoonmoose wrote:
         | Long time user of Google Play Music as well and I gotta
         | say...while YouTube Music is slightly inferior (edit: to GPM),
         | it's not even close to inferior enough to convince me to go
         | back to Spotify.
         | 
         | Granted, it does look like Spotify finally fixed the thing that
         | got me to leave in the first place (10K library limit) but
         | there's nothing so bad about YTM that I'd bother to pick up and
         | move again.
        
           | amanzi wrote:
           | Depending on your point of view, YouTube Music _is_ far
           | inferior to Spotify. The key advantage to Spotify is that
           | they have apps for all platforms and have a much better
           | integration story than YouTube Music. For example, I can
           | stream directly from the Spotify app on Android to my Sonos
           | speakers, I can use a Spotify app on my Samsung TV, I can
           | integrate Spotify on my Home Assistant server, and I can sync
           | Spotify playlists to my Garmin watch for offline access. None
           | of that is possible with YouTube Music.
        
             | anoonmoose wrote:
             | Some of those things I can do (I can stream directly from
             | the YTM app to many different devices in my house, I don't
             | have any Sonos stuff though)
             | 
             | Some of it I never even thought of doing (no Home
             | Assistant, Garmin watch)
             | 
             | Some of those things I explicitly do not want to do (my TV
             | is hooked up to a Windows PC with wireless keyboard, using
             | an app directly on the TV sounds like a strict downgrade in
             | usability)
             | 
             | I'd say it's less of a "point of view" thing and more of a
             | "how do you interact with computers and the IoT" thing
        
           | Steltek wrote:
           | The biggest problem with the GPM -> YTM transition was that
           | my kids were suddenly locked out of music (as Google didn't
           | allow kids accounts to have YT and YTM fell under that). This
           | was a serious problem and I don't understand why they let it
           | happen.
           | 
           | Thankfully, I got an email not 5 minutes ago saying that kids
           | can use YTM again. Remarkably good timing on that one.
        
           | [deleted]
        
         | amanzi wrote:
         | Same. Ad-free YouTube is essential for me, and getting YouTube
         | Music as part of the bundle is a nice bonus. I have the family
         | plan but my kids are always bugging me to get a Spotify family
         | plan instead. If I do ever cave and pay for Spotify, I'll have
         | to keep the YouTube premium plan anyway since I can't go back
         | to watching the obnoxious ads on YouTube.
        
           | 09bjb wrote:
           | Both Opera's built-in adblocker and uBlock Origin on other
           | browsers takes care of most of this nicely for me.
        
             | Steltek wrote:
             | But if you're gonna pirate content, I don't think paid
             | music subscriptions are right for you either.
        
       | spoonjim wrote:
       | Kind of sucks that if you build any really successful app on iOS
       | then Apple will come in and force their way into your market and
       | have deep analytics on your own app when doing so. Spotify->Apple
       | Music, Netflix -> Apple TV+, Peloton-> Apple Fitness.
        
       | jhoechtl wrote:
       | I am using a music streaming service which is totally free and
       | offers me genres without any subscription lock-in. Additionally
       | it doesn't track my listening habits and thus enables me to
       | discover new music as I am not in a listening bubble.
       | 
       | I like that streaming service a lot
        
       | DisjointedHunt wrote:
       | Apple Music only has significant usage because of their anti
       | competitive behavior.
       | 
       | All apps on the App Store have to go through rigorous review and
       | are restricted to Apples discretion in being granted access to OS
       | features while Apple themselves use undocumented features to
       | compete as a platform.
       | 
       | Try hooking up AirPods to your iPhone and do nothing else. The
       | Lock Screen changes to have an Apple Music player with a random
       | song you may have never listened to.
       | 
       | This, even if you were listening to another song on YouTube Music
       | or any other music app as your last played audio.
       | 
       | On more than one occasion, I've accidentally played some idiotic
       | pop song that Apple Music pushes into this experience while
       | commuting with AirPods and noise cancellation on while holding
       | the phone firmly grasped in my hand.
       | 
       | It's ridiculous how many of these little UX tricks they adopt
       | that boost the metrics of their internal products while openly
       | denying the competition access to the same.
        
         | __david__ wrote:
         | I just tried this and my lock screen shows me 4 thumbnails that
         | I know are my most played songs/playlists but the main app and
         | play button are the video that I most recently watched (and
         | paused) in firefox. I know when I listen to postcasts using
         | Overcast (since I like their UI better than Apple's), it shows
         | up in the lock screen. This is reliable for me. It also becomes
         | the default thing to play if I hook up to my CarPlay. So I
         | don't think these are necessarily anti-competitive practices--
         | it may just be you are hitting a weird bug or edge case.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _Try hooking up AirPods to your iPhone and do nothing else. The
         | Lock Screen changes to have an Apple Music player with a random
         | song you may have never listened to._
         | 
         | Just tried it and had a different experience. The lock screen
         | showed the last thing I was listening to last night: The
         | SiriusXM app.
         | 
         | It's funny because this sometimes catches me by surprise. I'll
         | go to sleep listening to Sirius. Then I'll get into the car 18
         | hours later, and when the phone auto-connects to the car radio,
         | it suddenly starts playing 40's Junction when I'm merging into
         | traffic.
         | 
         | Happens all the time, but I'm still surprised every time it
         | does.
        
         | gilrain wrote:
         | Have you tried deleting Apple Music from your iPhone? Should
         | solve all your issues...
        
       | gerash wrote:
       | I recently switched to iPhone from Pixel. The overall UI touch
       | responsiveness and battery life is an upgrade but the OS features
       | are neither upgrade or downgrade.
       | 
       | I also got Apple Music trial for 6 months while having a YT
       | subscription. Even though the app seems just fine and nice
       | looking but why would anyone pay for it vs. YouTube Music? With
       | YouTube you get a larger selection of songs (including all user
       | uploaded stuff to YT) and it removes ads on YT. So what exactly
       | is the rationale to pay for Apple Music?
       | 
       | I believe Apple Music being the default option on Apple devices
       | plays the biggest role in its market share
        
         | ssully wrote:
         | I was a Google Play Music user on iOS. I switched to Apple
         | Music after Play moved to Youtube Music. Compared to Google
         | Play Music, I found the entire experience to be worse in
         | Youtube Music and got zero benefit from the switch. After using
         | Youtube Music for a few months I did a 3 month trial for Apple
         | Music and just never went back.
         | 
         | Also does Youtube Music premium remove Youtube ads? That was a
         | thing with Google Play Music for years, but I thought they
         | removed the benefit with the switch? Looking at the
         | subscription page [1], they only mention ad-free music.
         | 
         | [1]: https://music.youtube.com/music_premium/musicfeed
        
         | Case81 wrote:
         | Not sure about Apple Music but I simply don't use YouTube Music
         | because it's actually missing a LOT of stuff for me. Off the
         | top of my head, some Beatles remasters and obscure synth
         | artists
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | Yeah, and I've had artists I follow release new music, and it
           | seems to sometimes not land on YTM the same day as Apple
           | Music and Spotify. Certain albums just never showed up.
           | 
           | And you know what, I can't blame them for not caring about
           | keeping up with Google's services. Who knows how many days
           | YTM has before it's axed and replaced with something else.
        
         | josteink wrote:
         | > So what exactly is the rationale to pay for Apple Music?
         | 
         | Googles absolute failure to provide family plans for people
         | using Google-apps/Gsuite as their family domain and accounts.
         | You have to buy individual subscriptions to everyone.
         | 
         | It's literally not an even an option.
        
         | msbarnett wrote:
         | > So what exactly is the rationale to pay for Apple Music?
         | 
         | For $20 my wife and I both get Apple Music, Apple TV+ (several
         | shows we enjoy on there), 200GB Cloud Storage, and subscription
         | access to a bunch of video games.
         | 
         | 2 subscriptions to YouTube Music by itself would cost us the
         | same $20, with none of the other benefits (and it has a muuuuch
         | lousier selection of stuff I like, at least - plus a lot of the
         | user-uploaded content has audio quality on par with some 96khz
         | mp3 I'd have gotten off of napster two decades ago, whereas
         | Apple's increasingly streaming lossless)
        
           | Steltek wrote:
           | Youtube Music has a family plan for $15/m for 5 users and all
           | users also get YT Premium (nee Red). It's a way better deal.
        
             | msbarnett wrote:
             | Ehhhhh there's just the 2 of us, so with none of the other
             | benefits, which to me are worth $5, it's not an interesting
             | deal. Plus neither of us spend any time on YouTube so that
             | whole "Premium" ad-free thing is just meaningless access to
             | absolute junk content.
        
           | deadmutex wrote:
           | > 2 subscriptions to YouTube Music by itself would cost us
           | the same $20
           | 
           | FYI: There's a family plan... ~$18 for 5 people in the
           | household. And no ads on YT!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Closi wrote:
       | Would be interesting to see this broken down by region - Spotify
       | is very dominant in the UK in my experience for example, but not
       | sure if there will be pockets / countries where it swings the
       | other way.
       | 
       | Personally I find Apple Music just a bit clinical, and it's just
       | not as universal (for instance Spotify works just as well on a PC
       | as a Mac - iTunes for Windows though? ugh).
        
       | wwweston wrote:
       | I pulled the trigger on an Apple Music subscription this year
       | because it pays artists better.
       | 
       | Spotify still considers a penny per stream "entitled" according
       | to an exec giving one of the most absolutely tone-deaf AND
       | nonsensical justifications for their choices ("we solved piracy
       | by more or less adopting piracy's business model and legitimizing
       | it!") [0]
       | 
       | Apple stepped up to that level. [1]
       | 
       | Revenue streams from recordings matter for supporting artists.
       | There's still some issues with the economics of buffet streaming,
       | but a penny a stream starts to at least approach the right
       | magnitude.
       | 
       | [0] https://www.digitalmusicnews.com/2021/06/29/spotify-
       | executiv...
       | 
       | [1] https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/16/22387453/apple-music-
       | arti...
        
         | Steltek wrote:
         | I signed up for Google Play Music for the same reason, artist
         | payout, long ago.
         | 
         | It looks like Youtube Music is still the highest among the
         | major brands.
         | 
         | https://www.hypebot.com/hypebot/2021/09/why-youtube-musics-m...
        
         | callahad wrote:
         | Deezer has been pretty staunch in their advocacy for "User
         | Centric Payment Systems" (https://www.deezer.com/us/ucps) where
         | your monthly subscription gets proportionally split between the
         | artists you stream, rather than being put into a common pool
         | which then pays out based on global listening stats.
         | 
         | They can't unilaterally move to UCPS without renegotiating
         | licensing deals with labels, but they do decent advocacy work,
         | including publishing a personalized dashboard at
         | https://www.deezer.com/us/ucps/me which, for me, opens with "Hi
         | callahad, during December 2021 your Deezer subscription
         | generated: 97% of royalties for artists I didn't stream, 3% of
         | royalties for artists I did stream."
         | 
         | It's apparently working, since seeing numbers presented that
         | starkly prevented me from switching to Spotify (and got me to
         | post this comment...)
        
         | rodgerd wrote:
         | I used to use Tidal for the same reason, but the ongoing MQA
         | debacle pushed me over to Music. I have to say that I preferred
         | Tidal's recommendations.
        
         | deadmutex wrote:
         | > Apple Music subscription this year because it pays artists
         | better.
         | 
         | I wonder if this is a growth tactic. If Apple was more
         | altruistic, one could argue that they would pay their App store
         | 3rd party devs (by taking less of a cut via the App store)
         | better too.
         | 
         | So, I am going to chalk this up as a possible business decision
         | for growth.
        
         | music_throwaway wrote:
         | I really respect your decision to choose your streaming service
         | based on how they each pay out artists. I work for an
         | independent label and the most recent analysis we did shows
         | that in the US, Apple was paying out roughly just under $0.007
         | (7/10 of a penny) / stream, while Spotify was paying out around
         | $0.004. These rates go down as you bring a more international
         | user base, depending on where in the world the music was
         | consumed. Of those payouts, depending on the clout of the
         | artist, they're typically only seeing their 15-20% royalty of
         | those payout rates on the recorded music side (music publishing
         | is a different story). So it's even worse than it seems!
         | 
         | A big reason that Apple is able to pay out higher rates is
         | they're fully a premium business model with no ad-supported
         | tier (they have a free trial period though). Due to Spotify's
         | ad-supported tier, artists are able to reach a more cost-
         | sensitive consumer, but at a lower overall blended rate per
         | stream.
        
           | kenhwang wrote:
           | Do you have numbers for Tidal or Amazon Music? I'd guess
           | they'd land somewhere between the two.
        
       | YesThisIsJay wrote:
       | I have recently decided to try Apple Music as apart of trial of
       | Apple One trial (not likely to go beyond that) my biggest gripe
       | with it is the usability on any platform outside of iDevice/Mac.
       | It seems to be a 'pleasant enough' experience on my iPhone/ATV,
       | but once I transition to my PC for work. A place where I would
       | listen to music for a lot of my day. The PC client is trash, they
       | have a semi capable web client, but it was just feeling Apple
       | Music lite.
       | 
       | One thing with Spotify is that I appreciate the effort across all
       | platforms (well, at least the ones I've used)
       | 
       | iTunes on Windows feels like they stopped working on it back in
       | 2008 and now have some interns trying to support it.
        
       | beardedman wrote:
       | Spotify's song radio feature is killer for me. I've found so many
       | great new (very niche) artists. Of course royalties can always be
       | better.
        
       | azalemeth wrote:
       | I have a huge and old MP3 library that is an amalgamation of my
       | CDs, and some of my parent's CDs too. I think it's about two or
       | three months of classical music. I suspect that many HN readers
       | also have similar stories.
       | 
       | None of this will show up in a market survey like this.
        
       | joshstrange wrote:
       | I am all in on Apple and only a few dollars away from the Apple
       | One bundle being worth it for me but I just don't like Apple
       | Music. The UI is just too difficult to use and it feels slower
       | than it should be, definitely slower than Spotify. While I have
       | no love for Spotify's podcast ventures and dislike them trying to
       | push me to listen to podcasts on their platform, I do love it for
       | music and it "Just Works". Also I can use Spotify with my Echo's
       | in ways that don't work with Apple Music. Yes, you can play Apple
       | Music through the Echo's but only using your voice. With Spotify
       | I can throw music to an Echo or a group of them and control it
       | all from my phone.
        
         | JimBlackwood wrote:
         | I'm with you here. While I don't have the same issues as you,
         | Apple Music sometimes feels like a beta version to me. Spotify
         | does too, sometimes.
         | 
         | One giant annoyance with Apple Music is their artist
         | matching/suggestions. I have a few artists with very generic
         | common names. Anytime another artist with the same name
         | releases another album, it'll be wrongly matched to the artist
         | I listen to for a few weeks. More annoyingly, I keep getting
         | the other artist in my recommendations constantly!
         | 
         | Two examples would be SIERRA (techno) and ALEX (synthwave).
         | SIERRA often gets mismatched with Sierra and now I keep ending
         | up with weird spanish music in my recommendations. With ALEX
         | it's with ALEX&RUS which is some russian rap duo. Super
         | annoying.
        
           | whiddershins wrote:
           | I have an artist with a name conflict and even though I have
           | control of the "official" artist distribution page for my
           | work and have reached out to Spotify (and Apple) repeatedly,
           | this other artist with the same name keeps appear amongst my
           | tracks.
           | 
           | Super frustrating.
        
         | hbn wrote:
         | Spotify is a nonstarter for me because I can't upload my own
         | music. I don't want to be beholden to whatever they decide I
         | can listen to, and there's lots of music I want to listen to
         | that's not in any streaming catalogue.
         | 
         | edit: note I say "upload," not syncing local files to my phone.
         | I want a built-in streaming catalogue + cloud music locker that
         | all my devices stream from, not something I have to manually
         | transfer files between for every device
        
           | NobodyNada wrote:
           | You can upload your own music, it's a bit janky sometimes but
           | it works: https://support.spotify.com/us/article/local-files/
           | 
           | In Spotify's settings on your PC, you can configure
           | directories to look for "local files". Then, you can make
           | playlists of local files and they will sync to your other
           | devices over your local WiFi network.
        
           | zora_goron wrote:
           | You can import local files to Spotify [0] and if you download
           | the playlist for offline use on your mobile device, they'll
           | be synced over from your desktop [1].
           | 
           | [0] https://support.spotify.com/us/article/local-files/
           | 
           | [1] https://community.spotify.com/t5/iOS-iPhone-iPad/Syncing-
           | Loc...
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | That's completely fair and I even pay for iTunes Match even
           | though I don't really use it anymore, it and Apple Music
           | never meshed well in my experience but maybe it's gotten
           | better. There is a way to listen to your own music in Spotify
           | (even mobile) [0] but it might be a little shaky, I doubt
           | they care much about it. I've used it before but only on
           | desktop.
           | 
           | [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-upload-music-to-
           | spoti...
        
             | hbn wrote:
             | I've read up on Spotify's custom library stuff, and it
             | seems to just be a weird hack that only works on one
             | device. What I really want is a music locker I can stream
             | to any device to fill in the gaps that aren't available in
             | the streaming library.
        
               | jhoechtl wrote:
               | We had it all with Google Music
        
         | robbiep wrote:
         | I agree that Spotify is a much better 'listening experience'
         | (ie discoverability etc) but the problems I have between
         | Spotify and my HomePod(s) is almost enough for me to switch
         | back to music - it is infuriating, needing to reboot the
         | HomePod to get it to play _anything_ again (apparently an issue
         | with Spotify not supporting airplay 2 but the flow on effects
         | are weird)
        
           | deanc wrote:
           | I got a HomePod mini last week. I have used Spotify probably
           | about 20-30 times by tapping it with my phone or using
           | AirPlay from the control Center. Zero issues. The lack of
           | _native_ Siri support is a joke though. Spotify really need
           | to pull their finger out on that one.
        
           | joshstrange wrote:
           | Yeah, I've thought that if I ever go all-in on the HomePods
           | then I might use Apple Music just for them (like I said, I'm
           | close to getting the Apple One bundle once my last trial runs
           | out) but the Echo's are a lot more open and play nice with
           | Home Assistant. If I want to replace all my Echo's with
           | HomePods (mini I guess since that's all there is) it would
           | close to $1K and I'd have to use Home Assistant's HomeKit
           | integration and every experience I've had with HomeKit (or
           | HomeBridge) has been bad. Sure it works great for a few
           | weeks, maybe months, but then it just stops working and you
           | have remove and re-add everything (and re-add them to the
           | right rooms, the HomeKit setup is so terrible).
        
         | kitsunesoba wrote:
         | The thing that kills Spotify for me is how pushy it is combined
         | with the frequent unnecessary UI changes.
         | 
         | The lack of an API that allows track playback is a huge, huge
         | bummer too (look up the saga of libspotfy if curious) --
         | shockingly, Apple Music is more open in this regard, with
         | multiple alternative third party clients being available thanks
         | to JS and native Mac/iOS SDKs.
        
           | e40 wrote:
           | I'm curious what UI changes you're talking about. I can't
           | remember the last time there was a UI change, and I've been
           | using them for 5+ years.
           | 
           | In fact, as I was reading these comments I was thinking
           | they've been totally stagnant UI-wise, and the only hate I
           | for the iOS app is the pop ups for events, etc. I make a
           | point to never read any text in them and dismiss immediately.
        
             | kenhwang wrote:
             | The big one pinning podcast recommendations to the home
             | screen above the fold with no option remove it. Same with
             | unremovable "recommended" playlists that mix music with
             | podcasts. Podcast settings are at the top of the list in
             | settings too.
             | 
             | But because podcasts are treated equally to music on every
             | page and user backlash to remove podcasts, they added
             | [Music] and [Podcasts & Shows] filter buttons to the header
             | of those pages, wasting page real estate. But the slap in
             | the face is it doesn't even remember to keep those filters
             | applied.
             | 
             | Plus, even if you actually like some podcasts, it'll
             | randomly swap out [Your shows] section for podcast
             | [Recommendations] instead.
        
       | schoolornot wrote:
       | Eddy Cue should be fired for allowing Spotify to reach such
       | critical mass. Music and playlists is such a sticky ecosystem
       | that people don't just up and switch services at a whim. The 381
       | million users that Spotify accumulated over the years will never
       | switch to another platform. Apple lost so many years with trying
       | to spin Beats into something that it wasn't, rewriting clients,
       | and putting out garbage like "Your Station".
        
         | manmal wrote:
         | Their Music clients are also still far away from what I'd
         | expect from a Trillion dollar company.
        
           | hbn wrote:
           | I actually like the iOS Music app (though their queue system
           | isn't as intuitive as Google Play Music/YouTube Music) but
           | their webapp and Mac app are hot garbage.
           | 
           | I recall seeing an article that said the Mac app was being
           | rewritten in the new macOS betas.
        
             | my123 wrote:
             | The iOS and Android apps are both kinda okay, but the web,
             | Mac and Windows ones just suck.
        
         | Macha wrote:
         | I actually disagree here, iTunes music is DRM free so users
         | still have it without the subscription service, and the music
         | streaming services all have most of the tracks unlike video
         | streaming so there's no moat to be built. Bad for Apple, good
         | for consumers.
        
         | Graffur wrote:
         | Strong statements. I just cancelled Spotify and will likely go
         | to another provider when I choose to get a music streaming sub
         | back.
        
       | shaan7 wrote:
       | I dread the day when iTunes stops letting you buy DRM-free music.
       | I don't know anywhere else I can do that easily (and is the only
       | Apple service I use).
        
         | __david__ wrote:
         | Nowadays I tend to use bandcamp.com over iTunes for purchased
         | music. It tends to only have smaller artists on there but they
         | also sell flac/wav, which I like better than buying compressed
         | music (I listen to things compressed but if I'm buying it I
         | want it future-proof).
        
       | pgrote wrote:
       | Pandora isn't on the list, but I am unsure they are global. When
       | they were purchased by Sirius I wanted to move to a Sirius
       | subscription, but found out they would not port over your Music
       | Genome Project information over. You would have to train it
       | again. No other service has a feature that works so well.
       | 
       | We keep it just for that reason.
        
         | YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo wrote:
         | I have used Pandora over VPN for like 10 years but decided to
         | just drop it because it's not worth the hassle of getting the
         | US app on iPhones anymore. They have the coming soon page for
         | Germany up since 2014 and still nothing. I miss it.
        
       | commandlinefan wrote:
       | "Other 10%" seems weird... are there really (at least) 10 more
       | music services that captured 1 or less percent of the market?
        
         | jonwinstanley wrote:
         | There are a lot of services which are region specific
        
       | ssully wrote:
       | I am curious what Google Play Music's share was before they shut
       | it down in favor of Youtube Music. Myself and a few friends were
       | using it until they shut it down; we basically split between
       | Spotify and Apple Music based on what OS we were using.
        
       | steve-benjamins wrote:
       | I'm an indie artist and here's the avg split on my plays per
       | week:
       | 
       | Spotify: 25,000
       | 
       | Apple Music: 600
       | 
       | ... Not trying to make a statement-- just sharing cause it's
       | interesting!
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | Since the big topic of discussion on HN has been how much
         | artist make from those streams, can you give us a ballpark
         | figure of how much you get from each service?
        
         | cujo wrote:
         | How much do you make from each of those services?
        
       | gfiorav wrote:
       | Big surprise for me is Amazon music... with 13%!
       | 
       | I don't know anyone that uses it. Maybe it's a regional thing?
        
         | YXNjaGVyZWdlbgo wrote:
         | Anecdotal but my parents use the one integrated in prime
         | because they mainly listen to old music.
        
         | Apocryphon wrote:
         | Does Amazon give out Music accounts as a bonus when users
         | subscribe to some other service, similar to Amazon Prime
         | customers getting streaming? Maybe that can account for
         | incidental and not intentional subscribers.
        
           | fullstop wrote:
           | Some purchases on Amazon come with "3 months of amazon
           | music", which surely adds to their numbers.
        
           | salamandersauce wrote:
           | Yes they do. Prime comes with a limited version that "only"
           | has a couple million songs. At least in some countries. They
           | also have a higher tier called Music Unlimited that's more
           | on-par with the other guys content wise but cheaper if you
           | already sub to Prime. Also have a tier that only works on
           | Echos but gives access to the larger catalog for even less.
           | 
           | I switched to just using the included service with Prime.
           | It's good enough for me and I get Prime super cheap as a
           | student.
        
         | yumraj wrote:
         | It's free with Prime and cheaper than other alternates for the
         | paid version if you have Prime. For casual listening it's not
         | bad at all.
         | 
         | It also supports so called HD and Ultra HD, which I believe
         | Spotify still doesn't support, while Apple does.
        
           | bee_rider wrote:
           | Does Apple or Spotify have some sort of extra feature over
           | Amazon that would appeal to non-casual listeners?
           | 
           | I had Apple for a bit, switched over to Amazon because of the
           | Prime discount... while I'm aware that morally I should de-
           | Amazon my life, the service is pretty convenient.
        
             | fullstop wrote:
             | For me, Spotify is everywhere. It works on Google Home,
             | Echo, Xboxes, PC, Linux, Android, etc.
             | 
             | For quite a while, Google Music wouldn't work on Echo
             | devices and Amazon Music wouldn't work on Google Home.
             | Spotify worked everywhere, had native applications, and a
             | decent value for a family plan.
        
               | bee_rider wrote:
               | Interesting. I've got Linux, Windows, and iOS here. The
               | main annoyance of Amazon is that they don't appear to
               | have a native client for Linux. At least not in my repo.
               | I don't really mind the web interface, the higher
               | bitrates are limited to the native client for some silly
               | reason.
               | 
               | As it is... I just end up plugging my phone into my
               | dac/amp as a (pretty stupid, IMO) workaround.
        
           | paxys wrote:
           | It is not free with Prime, just $2 cheaper ($8 vs $10/mo).
           | 
           | I think what is driving Amazon Music subscriptions is the
           | proliferation of Echo devices. It is easy to auto-subscribe
           | from the speaker itself (sometimes too easy, to the point of
           | being accidental), e.g. when you ask it to play a song.
        
             | yumraj wrote:
             | As sibling comment also noted, there is a free tier that
             | we've been using forever.
             | 
             | They also have a much cheaper option for students, I think
             | $1/month or something like that.
             | 
             | Not sure if every Prime user uses Amazon Music, and how
             | they count their user base.
        
             | jasode wrote:
             | _> It is not free with Prime, just $2 cheaper_
             | 
             | There's a free tier Amazon Music of 2 million songs
             | included with Prime membership. That's the free music
             | streaming my friend was using for 5+ years. She then
             | upgraded to Amazon Music Unlimited for extra $80/year.
             | 
             | Can't tell if the article's 13% for Amazon Music is
             | counting the free tier users.
        
               | paxys wrote:
               | In that case every Prime member is a subscriber, and that
               | number should be a lot larger.
        
           | zwaps wrote:
           | What is the meaning of HD and ultra HD for music?
        
             | bee_rider wrote:
             | I'm sure it is just a marketing term that they've come up
             | with.
             | 
             | https://www.amazon.com/music/unlimited/why-hd
             | 
             | HD: 'CD quality audio (aka, "lossless")'
             | 
             | Ultra HD: 'Better than CD quality audio (up to 24 bit, 192
             | kHz)'
        
         | drawkbox wrote:
         | Lots of Amazon music, in addition to Prime usage, is probably
         | used with Alexa as well as that is the default music player on
         | Alexa/Echo.
         | 
         | Just like Siri/Homepod uses Apple Music and "Hey Google" /
         | Google Home/Helper uses Google Play/Youtube music.
        
         | echelon wrote:
         | Long term, Spotify and Netflix are in trouble. Amazon and Apple
         | are in this space, and they can use their trillion dollar
         | market caps to decimate single-revenue stream companies.
         | 
         | The Department of Justice should do something about this.
         | Neither Amazon nor Apple should be in these businesses. They do
         | too much and apply price pressure unfairly.
         | 
         | If this continues, $1T+ tech will be the entire economy.
         | 
         | Netflix, Spotify, and all of the other "little companies"
         | should sue the ever-loving bejesus out of these monsters for
         | anti-competitive practices.
        
           | rzanella wrote:
           | I agree with you, which is why I subscribe to Netflix and
           | Spotify, but man...
           | 
           | - Netflix's so-so content while being costlier
           | 
           | - And Spotify push to have podcasts instead of decent radio
           | are not helping...
        
             | giglamesh wrote:
             | netflix: costlier so-so content AND a soul crushingly
             | annoying interface. I am 100% sure that I will never want
             | to watch the vast majority of the items available, and yet
             | I must scroll past them over and over and over in four to
             | ten different rows during the same session even.
        
             | echelon wrote:
             | Spotify is trying to add new revenue streams and revenue
             | growth.
             | 
             | Netflix is fighting content being taken away - they didn't
             | have their own, and now content owners realize the value of
             | their catalogs. There are also lots of new players (HBO,
             | Disney, Peacock, Amazon, Apple). Once Netflix builds a
             | bigger catalog, they can relax and curate better.
             | 
             | Amazon and Apple don't have these problems. They can
             | purchase studios to artificially build their catalogues. If
             | they weren't buying content, Netflix would be paying less.
             | In fact, Netflix would probably be the beneficiary of
             | studio consolidation if the giants were not writing checks
             | too.
             | 
             | Spotify and Netflix don't have a grocery store or hardware
             | business unit to help speed up investments.
             | 
             | It's vastly unfair to have horizontally scaled command of
             | several industries, especially when they have built in
             | synergies you can abuse.
        
           | dopa42365 wrote:
           | Spotify owns 50% of Tencent Music (pretty much Chinese
           | Spotify). Tencent owns 20% of Universal Music Group, and a
           | few percent of Warner Music as well.
           | 
           | They're all connected; you have that illusion of choice, and
           | no matter what you pick, everyone wins (yay)!
        
           | nostromo wrote:
           | Increased competition is a good thing. I'm glad several
           | companies are in this space.
           | 
           | It's only a problem if a single provider is a monopoly and
           | uses that to squeeze out other companies in order to raise
           | prices. We're very far off from that because there are so
           | many companies competing and none of them control the market.
        
             | echelon wrote:
             | > It's only a problem if a single provider is a monopoly
             | and uses that to squeeze out other companies in order to
             | raise prices.
             | 
             | The giants behave different to monopolies in the past.
             | 
             | Amazon makes its catalogs available for free, which makes
             | businesses like Netflix and their offerings look expensive.
             | They subsidize the costs using revenues from different
             | business units, which is not only unfair, it's not actually
             | competition.
             | 
             | It's not even necessarily about money. Giants care about
             | attracting and keeping people on their platform.
             | 
             | Once actual healthy businesses dry up, revenues paid to
             | creatives will go down. They've already begun picking apart
             | other studios and assimilating their businesses, and this
             | will only accelerate.
             | 
             | > Increased competition is a good thing.
             | 
             | Not when music, movies, and art become just features of the
             | tech giant platforms. It dumbs everything down and ensures
             | the tech giant opinions are the ones that get amplified.
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | cbhl wrote:
         | I'm under the impression that Amazon Music is US-only. It's
         | decent if you're heavily invested in the Amazon Echo / Alexa
         | ecosytem.
        
         | pgrote wrote:
         | We subscribe simply because it is the only service that works
         | on family plans without any friction on Echo devices. Tried to
         | get Pandora and Spotify to work, but there was always a problem
         | or the skill would fall apart over a period of months.
        
         | hwbehrens wrote:
         | My wife and I share a single Spotify account, so when she's
         | listening, I switch to the free tier of Amazon Music. I wonder
         | if that counts toward that 13%?
        
           | circa wrote:
           | There is a couples account option and I think its very close
           | to the same price of a single sub.
           | 
           | Edit: its called Spotify Duo and its $12.99 vs $9.99
           | https://www.spotify.com/us/premium/#plans
        
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