[HN Gopher] Number of people on government websites now
       ___________________________________________________________________
        
       Number of people on government websites now
        
       Author : wylie39
       Score  : 333 points
       Date   : 2022-01-20 04:46 UTC (18 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (analytics.usa.gov)
 (TXT) w3m dump (analytics.usa.gov)
        
       | fareesh wrote:
       | Is it possible to FOIA how much it cost the US government to
       | build this page?
        
         | Jolter wrote:
         | Only one way to find out.
        
         | EricE wrote:
         | Sure - but as others pointed out there is a pretty good blog
         | post that goes over it: https://18f.gsa.gov/2015/03/19/how-we-
         | built-analytics-usa-go...
         | 
         | And you can see the code and development lifecycle on github:
         | https://github.com/18F/analytics.usa.gov
         | 
         | Pretty lightweight for what it is.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | Yes. But it's probably faster and easier to just look online.
         | The data is very likely there.
        
       | hollerith wrote:
       | Chromebooks have high (unit) sales (some say) but I've yet to see
       | any signs that they are used a lot. Here only 1.4% of visits are
       | from ChromeOS.
        
         | dhogan wrote:
         | My whole local library is full of Chromeboxes. Maybe things
         | like that make an impact.
        
         | riskable wrote:
         | My anecdote: A lot of people seem to be using Chromebooks to
         | replace tablets (because good, non-Amazon tablets that aren't
         | expensive are rare these days). You can pick up a $250
         | touchscreen Chromebook that works as a vastly superior web-
         | browsing and video-watching device than a $250 Samsung tablet.
        
         | agloeregrets wrote:
         | Keep in mind that the majority of all fed gov visits are USPS
         | tracking pages and the like. Chromebooks are majority used by
         | students so I would expect this.
        
         | Rastonbury wrote:
         | Is it mainly students in schools? They wouldn't have much
         | reason to access govt sites yet
        
         | jedberg wrote:
         | Every Chromebook I've seen in the wild is being used by a
         | student or teacher. I suspect students don't have many reasons
         | to visit government websites.
        
         | Shalomboy wrote:
         | The fact that a lot of Chromebooks are being sold is fairly
         | solid; I would reckon that the questionable claim is that
         | Chromebooks have strong sales traction with retail consumers. I
         | bought myself a Lenovo Duet tablet last fall because I wanted a
         | device that could last multiple days with intermittent
         | streaming use and I missed the feeling of a cramped 10"
         | netbook. I got it on sale for $200 USD and was _floored_ by how
         | nice the experience was on a PC that cheap. But friends and
         | family who saw me with the tablet were shocked that I, an adult
         | who likes computers, owned a Chromebook. I only know one other
         | person IRL with a personal chromebook, and they bought it after
         | being given a school-deployed one in college.
        
           | bmhin wrote:
           | I use one and have had a couple over the years. Decently
           | cheap and I functionally just want a laptop form factor and
           | UX for a tablet use case: web browsing, some light app usage
           | (often for casting / streaming), and also being able to type
           | as needed, all from an actual couch / on the lap / wherever.
           | Used to be no Android App support so that part was a no go
           | and now you have the linux containers to fall back on if you
           | need to run something else or want a proper terminal.
           | 
           | I have a bulky work laptop and a big desktop PC. The niche
           | left over maps to a nice slim, fanless device for casual
           | usage very well in the Chromebook space. Maybe preaching to
           | the choir here, but my keyboard will need to be pried from my
           | cold, dead hands and the tablet + detachable options all
           | seemed way too delicate.
        
       | encryptluks2 wrote:
       | As someone pointed out in another thread, there is something
       | fishy going on with these with a high percentage of usage coming
       | from Graceville. Who knows if they are spoofing user agents and
       | what not.
        
         | dgoldstein0 wrote:
         | perhaps there's an internet exchange in one of the
         | Graceville's, and it accounts for traffic from nearby cities
         | too?
         | 
         | I noticed that San Jose makes the list, as does LA and Seattle
         | right now, but no San Francisco. I suspect that SF traffic goes
         | through San Jose and thus most of the bay area appears as San
         | Jose in their numbers. Not a big leap to imagine this happens
         | in other places too.
        
         | Axsuul wrote:
         | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30004042
        
       | m4tthumphrey wrote:
       | Visitor Locations Now: London 2%
       | 
       | Clearly a HN hug!
        
       | tradertef wrote:
       | India is 7.7% of total traffic and China is 5%. It is night now,
       | but still these numbers are surprisingly high.
        
         | flypaca wrote:
         | Probably just looking at immigration/Embassies related
         | websites. It is day time in India and China.
        
         | dmode wrote:
         | My guess is this is mostly related to immigration and travel
         | related
        
         | jorgesborges wrote:
         | Indeed, as I look now 42% of all traffic is international.
        
         | 908B64B197 wrote:
         | The US consulates and embassy in China are the only reliable
         | source of information regarding air quality and pollution.
         | 
         | Also, India having a large number of English speakers, probably
         | has a significant percent of the population that prefers
         | getting COVID-19 info from the CDC.
        
         | boomboomsubban wrote:
         | The most common website is USPS by a significant margin. Could
         | that explain much of the international traffic?
        
           | deltree7 wrote:
           | Immigration and Travel too
        
           | saagarjha wrote:
           | COVID tests, I assume.
        
             | trompetenaccoun wrote:
             | "Free of charge" pen testing more like. You may have missed
             | the news but since yesterday there aren't even any
             | commercial flights between China and the US anymore, they
             | were all cancelled.
        
         | H8crilA wrote:
         | Both of these countries have around 1.4B people. 1B people is
         | around 17x Germany, or around 21x the UK.
        
           | ascar wrote:
           | I think you're missing the .4 of 1.4B in your second
           | sentence.
        
             | H8crilA wrote:
             | Uh, yes :)
        
       | drugstorecowboy wrote:
       | In state government, many desktops are set up with the agency's
       | website as the browser homepage with no way to change it. I would
       | think federal government is the same, that alone might skew some
       | of these statistics.
        
       | throwaway89374 wrote:
       | This does not seem to work correctly. I visited from separate
       | browsers and the number remains the same.
        
         | ixnus wrote:
         | It updates every 5 minutes.
        
       | firechickenbird wrote:
       | Apple covers 45.3% of the visits, that's insane
        
         | yftsui wrote:
         | Indeed, very surprising to see it below 50% given iPhone
         | accumulated market share over the years.
        
           | etchalon wrote:
           | Apple's marketshare in mobile is ~ 62% based on this, and ~
           | 25% on desktop.
        
         | mobilio wrote:
         | And Safari - >36%
        
           | WesternWind wrote:
           | That's probably IOS safari
        
             | earthscienceman wrote:
             | The last bastion, never thought I would approve of an
             | impact of Apple's lock-in on iDevicess but it's the only
             | thing keeping the web free.
        
       | erwincoumans wrote:
       | From the info, it looks like a lot of the recent traffic is due
       | to the free COVID test.
        
       | lkbm wrote:
       | Looks like it converts URLs to lower-case in the "Top Pages"
       | list. One of the most visited sites right now is listed as
       | https://jwst.nasa.gov/content/webblaunch/whereiswebb.html but
       | that's a 404. Actual URL has a capital L:
       | https://jwst.nasa.gov/content/webbLaunch/whereIsWebb.html
        
       | ralferoo wrote:
       | Wonder if tomorrow, the analytics site will show up as the top
       | most visited government website!
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | minaor wrote:
        
       | Proven wrote:
        
       | boomboomsubban wrote:
       | Under "Visitor locations right now," 1% are coming from
       | Graceville. As far as I can tell, that's either a town of 4k in
       | Australia, 2k in Florida, or there are two Gracevilles in
       | Minnesota with a few hundred people. Any idea what's up?
        
         | gibolt wrote:
         | I'd guess either some ISP/VPN is masking to that location, or a
         | block of ips incorrectly map to that spot (perhaps by the
         | library they are using to determine location from ip)
        
         | TonyTrapp wrote:
         | It might be a default set of coordinates used for geolocation
         | of some IPs used in a larger region (or even state). This sort
         | of thing has in fact caused trouble in the past at least once:
         | https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/aug/09/maxmind-m...
         | 
         | > IP mapping isn't an exact science and so MaxMind assigns a
         | default address when it can't identify its true location. That
         | address just happened to be the Arnolds' property, a remote
         | farm that is located slap-bang in the middle of America.
         | 
         | > More than 600 million IP addresses are associated with their
         | farm and more than 5,000 companies are drawing information from
         | MaxMind's database.
        
           | Aperocky wrote:
           | Imagine the spam mail they must be getting.
        
       | politelemon wrote:
       | When it says "now", how "now" do they mean? I've refreshed a few
       | times and the number hasn't changed (171,533). I went to cisa.gov
       | (disabled all my blockers) but the number here is still the same
       | over here.
        
         | boomboomsubban wrote:
         | It's now showing 168,571 people, maybe it's every few minutes
         | or possibly every hour as it's x:05 currently.
        
         | jaywalk wrote:
         | If you open up DevTools and look at the requests, realtime.json
         | contains a "taken_at" property which shows that the data is
         | updated every five minutes.
        
         | qwertox wrote:
         | While I was looking at the data, the ranking of the top visited
         | pages changed without reload, so I assume it is streamed in
         | real-time. But I guess that the real-time data comes from
         | aggregated and somewhat delayed data.
        
       | plasma_beam wrote:
       | This site went live in 2015 and hasn't changed too much since
       | then. Participating agencies have their google analytics data
       | collected by GSA, which is hosting this webpage.
       | 
       | It's very useful, and I've referred to this site many times over
       | the years (probably bc a couple sites I've worked on are in the
       | top 50!).
       | 
       | For those people wanting other awesome and informative govt
       | sites, take a look at https://www.usaspending.gov/, which has all
       | government contracts data easily searchable (and bookmarkable).
       | 
       | https://18f.gsa.gov/2015/03/19/how-we-built-analytics-usa-go...
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _Participating agencies have their google analytics data
         | collected by GSA, which is hosting this webpage._
         | 
         | Mostly off-topic, but the GSA is one of those federal agencies
         | that is really under-appreciated.
         | 
         | When I was a reporter in the days before the commercial
         | internet (yes, my tools were pencil, typewriter, and teletype),
         | the GSA would publish lists of what government reports were
         | coming out each month, helping you find all kinds of incredibly
         | useful data. If you needed help, you just picked up a phone and
         | they would point you in the right direction. I always looked
         | forward to getting their big blue envelopes in the mail at work
         | because I knew I could find something meaningful in there that
         | I could localize for my audience. And the information was
         | always presented in a manner that was both professional, and
         | easy to understand.
         | 
         | The GSA is one of those agencies that is best left alone to do
         | its work in obscurity. Every once in a long while, a politician
         | will stick his nose in there, but usually only to get a name
         | put on a building.
         | 
         | See also: The Congressional Budget Office.
        
         | jwithington wrote:
         | Thanks for sharing that link to USA Spending! Seems like a lot
         | of interesting information is buried there...and they have an
         | API!
        
           | EricE wrote:
           | USA Spending is a summary data set - if you really want to
           | drill down into the details you need SAM/FPDS:
           | https://sam.gov/reports/awards/standard
        
         | eminence32 wrote:
         | I bet the US government has lots of useful websites that I've
         | never even heard of. But every now and again I randomly stumble
         | across one (like the one from your comment), and it makes me
         | wonder if there is a "discovery problem" here. What other
         | useful govt sites are out there, but are unknown to me.
        
           | kibwen wrote:
           | Here's one I stumbled upon recently: the NOAA (National
           | Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration) has an interactive
           | sea level rise map where you can see whether a given location
           | in the US will suffer flooding/inundation from sea level rise
           | based on the value the user selects:
           | https://coast.noaa.gov/slr/#
        
             | jrwr wrote:
             | Interesting thing with that tool, it doesn't show any rise
             | in the great lakes, I wonder if they would rise at all.
        
               | deeg wrote:
               | All else being the same I would expect the great lakes to
               | rise. My guess is that the lake levels are so strongly
               | tied to rainfall patterns that it's pointless to predict
               | their future levels right now.
        
               | EricE wrote:
               | They are higher than the ocean (Niagara Falls!) so no -
               | unless the paths between them and the path to the ocean
               | gets blocked they won't rise.
        
           | shadowgovt wrote:
           | The discovery problem is not only known, it's writ large.
           | There is a vast bureaucracy of benefits available to
           | Americans that most Americans don't know about because the
           | creation of the programs rarely includes advertising in the
           | budget.
           | 
           | If you've ever seen the "question mark vest guy" (Matthew
           | Lesko, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Lesko), who
           | offers book on federal programs available and how to take
           | advantage of them... He's been criticized as a charlatan or
           | misleading people, or encouraging people to "freeload," but
           | here's the thing... He's really quite sincere. He believes
           | the US government bureaucracy has failed in its duty of
           | public information and education and is full of under-
           | utilized programs that, as a result, become tools for the
           | informed to siphon resources from those the programs were
           | intended to help. He thinks that's unfair. The "Free Money
           | Now" book covers and TV advertisements are employed because
           | his target audience is assumed to not be savvy enough to do
           | the research themselves, so he's trying to reach them with
           | noise and spectacle where quiet black-and-white announcements
           | buried in the back pages of local newspapers have already
           | failed (and the fact that he started his work in the era
           | where the easiest way to reach his target audience was still
           | books because the sorts of people who didn't know about
           | benefits programs they were eligible for were strongly
           | correlated with lack of Internet access, not surprisingly).
        
             | EricE wrote:
             | All the information in his book is freely available too:
             | https://pueblo.gpo.gov/Publications/PuebloPubs.php
             | 
             | He makes it easier to find since he actively advertised on
             | TV, but still probably isn't worth the fee for that
             | convenience.
        
               | shadowgovt wrote:
               | Probably not worth it to you and me. For the target
               | audience, the fact that the linked site doesn't have
               | "tangible dimensions" (i.e. I don't know where I am "in"
               | the site) and can't just be read front to back is already
               | daunting.
               | 
               | I have relatives who have Lesko's book and just browse
               | through it in the bathroom. It's comforting to them not
               | only how comprehensive it is, but that in some sense it
               | has a beginning and an end; when they finish the book,
               | they have some kind of confidence that the percentage of
               | programs they're aware of is now large. That might be a
               | false confidence, but the sense it's possible keeps them
               | reading. Hard to do that with a searchable index.
        
             | dfxm12 wrote:
             | _There is a vast bureaucracy of benefits available to
             | Americans that most Americans don 't know about because the
             | creation of the programs rarely includes advertising in the
             | budget._
             | 
             | It's intentional. In addition to the lack of advertising,
             | making people fill out needless/confusing forms, etc. also
             | filters out people who are legitimately entitled to
             | government benefits. It's a special type of cruelty to
             | dangle a benefit behind so much red tape in front of people
             | who don't have the time or know-how to deal with it!
             | 
             | The US COVID test program, seems good at first blush. On
             | the one hand, it was a breath of fresh air that all you
             | have to do is go to one website and fill out one very short
             | form. On the other, the parameters of the program were 4
             | tests per address. USPS already knows every address, so why
             | did I even have to bother filling out the form? _Why aren
             | 't they just sending out the tests?!_ There are going to be
             | people who want/need the tests but won't get them because
             | of the bureaucracy.
        
               | hooande wrote:
               | They aren't sending the tests out, in part, because 1/3
               | of Americans would performatively destroy them on social
               | media. Not to mention that the tests cost money and
               | sending them to people who didn't ask for them isn't good
               | practice.
               | 
               | The government generally has a responsibility to avoid
               | waste, fraud and abuse. If they send something to
               | everyone who qualifies then sooner or later it will be
               | abused or inefficient, and those will be the stories that
               | make the news.
        
               | dfxm12 wrote:
               | The covid test program is a universal benefit. If someone
               | wants to burn them, that's their prerogative. I don't
               | care. What's good practice is giving people the benefits
               | they're entitled to. I don't understand why sending them
               | to people who didn't _explicitly_ ask for them isn 't
               | good practice. If there's an explicit opt out, OK, that's
               | different. Benefits really shouldn't have to be opt-in
               | though. Requiring opt-in costs money ands slows down,
               | maybe even prevents, some receiving their benefit.
               | 
               | That's the problem, when you make it so hard for people
               | who need benefits to get them, when you trap them in a
               | constant web of confusing paperwork and means testing
               | (and don't forget, all this bureaucracy, developing and
               | reviewing paperwork, ain't cheap, either), it's easy to
               | find fraud based on technicality, by filling out a form
               | incorrectly, even if you're really entitled to something.
               | It's also easy to _make_ someone give up because they don
               | 't have the time or access to resources required to sign
               | up.
               | 
               | In addition, with a lot of overhead, it makes it easier
               | for states to abuse the system [0] as well. I get that
               | this is a big mental block to overcome, but saying the
               | government has to avoid waste and fraud in this way is a
               | bit of a cop out.
               | 
               | 0 - https://www.clickorlando.com/news/2021/07/14/florida-
               | to-pay-...
        
           | EricE wrote:
           | I was looking at all the domains in .gov for a project at
           | work and there are indeed some fascinating ones out there.
           | Lots of abandoned stuff too.
           | 
           | If you want a fascinating rabbit hole:
           | https://18f.gsa.gov/2014/12/18/a-complete-list-of-gov-
           | domain...
        
       | echelon wrote:
       | Firefox's usage percentage is upsetting.
       | 
       | I hope they don't die, but this looks really bad for them.
        
         | zohch wrote:
        
         | ycuser2 wrote:
         | 3% of almost billions(?) of browser users are still a fews
         | millions of Firefox users. Millions of users is not "dead".
        
           | noahtallen wrote:
           | Right, but I think the overarching point is that 3% is
           | awfully close to the 1% that is Internet Explorer, which many
           | would consider dead. If usage decline continues, it just
           | wouldn't take much for no people to stop supporting it.
           | 
           | This is from someone who uses Firefox
        
             | Aeolun wrote:
             | Isn't it open source? If the company behind it dies I'll
             | just compile it myself.
        
               | hoppyhoppy2 wrote:
               | If the company behind it dies then development on it will
               | likely drastically decrease and it will quickly become a
               | less attractive option. There's probably a reason why you
               | chose Firefox over any number of other open-source
               | browsers that don't have much development activity.
        
         | ayngg wrote:
         | Aren't they basically being kept alive by Google at this point?
         | Almost 90% of their revenue is from that one deal at it has
         | felt like they have been more concerned with other initiatives
         | for a while now.
        
           | rvz wrote:
           | yes.
           | 
           | 14 years on and still haven't found a way to make themselves
           | any less independent of Google's money. >90% of their revenue
           | derived from their direct anti-privacy competitor makes them
           | entirely on life support.
           | 
           | Rust was their opportunity to escape that, now they just
           | threw it away and now they are back to where they started.
           | 
           | Firefox is in decline. Nothing has changed.
        
             | pawsforthought wrote:
             | In what way did Firefox throw anything away with Rust?
             | (Just don't know the story.)
        
         | ricardobayes wrote:
         | I used to love Firefox, but fell out of love majorly. First
         | there's a still long-standing bug (5 years and counting) that
         | newly opened tabs don't have access to localstorage. Then 96.0
         | broke a lot of our code somehow. Cross-checked with 95 and
         | everything still worked fine.
        
           | sevenf0ur wrote:
           | I hit and reported a very similar bug over a year ago. Try to
           | add a cookie or localstorage entry in Dev Tools on a page
           | that outputs JSON, such as:
           | https://api.ipify.org/?format=json (Spoiler: it's broken)
           | 
           | The DX for firefox just isn't that great when compared to
           | Chrome.
        
             | ricardobayes wrote:
             | FF has presently 163 open bugs for localstorage-related
             | issues. Some of them open for 3+ years. https://bugzilla.mo
             | zilla.org/buglist.cgi?quicksearch=localst...
        
         | amelius wrote:
         | I don't understand why large companies ban Gmail but allow
         | Chrome. They should be using Firefox instead.
        
           | slig wrote:
           | Things are only getting worse in this regard as more and more
           | devs don't even test on FF, and FF lags behind new features.
           | Internal business apps are going to be Chrome only and it's
           | only downhill from there.
        
             | EricE wrote:
             | It's Internet Explorer all over again. Except this time
             | it's a walled garden by a benevolent dictator! (yeah,
             | right)
        
           | IncRnd wrote:
           | They aren't banning due to a dislike of Google. They are
           | trying to stop unmonitored exfiltration of data.
        
             | riskable wrote:
             | > They are trying to stop unmonitored exfiltration of data.
             | 
             | This was always a pipe dream (preventing data
             | exfiltration). The best any company do is to prevent
             | _accidental_ exfiltration of data. Like when someone
             | attaches a spreadsheet with social security /credit card
             | numbers to an email going out over the Internet. There's
             | tools to detect that sort of thing (and stop it) but they
             | don't work when the data is encrypted.
             | 
             | There currently exists no technology that can stop the
             | _human problem_ of data exfiltration. Here 's a quick quiz
             | to see if anyone in your company can exfiltrate whatever TF
             | they want: Can employees play sounds on their desktop (as
             | in, _it emits sound_ )? Then they can exfiltrate _any_ file
             | they have read access to pretty damned quickly. Even huge,
             | multi-gigabyte files!
             | 
             | Current data exfiltration methods can take advantage of a
             | tiny corner of a monitor, the sound output (direct connect
             | to line out or optical is ideal!), _power lines_ (yes, this
             | works! https://www.helpnetsecurity.com/2018/04/13/data-
             | exfiltration...), various USB tricks (even if entire
             | categories of "storage" devices are blocked via software),
             | and many, many more. Most of them are basically
             | undetectable as well and can be executed with JavaScript in
             | any browser that gives the user access to the developer
             | console.
             | 
             | Obviously, if end users have access to PowerShell or Python
             | that's even faster/better at exfiltrating the data.
             | 
             | My favorite one though has got to be the sound output...
             | You can write a simple script that converts bits into
             | inaudible sounds that can be picked up by a cell phone in
             | your pocket! It's not nearly as fast as a direct connection
             | to the line out jack but _it is so cool_! haha
             | 
             | Second place has to be data exfiltration, "by blinking the
             | numlock LED"
        
               | 7steps2much wrote:
               | Not gonna lie, sending out data via inaudible sounds is
               | pretty fly!
        
         | rypskar wrote:
         | It seems like this data is from Google analytics, which is not
         | only blocked but also is being shimmed by Firefox, at least
         | when strict privacy is enabled. So this do not show the correct
         | number of Firefox user, only the users without privacy
         | protection enabled and without any tracking blocker
        
       | nitn wrote:
       | Why is the government using Google Analytics (which is now
       | illegal in some countries) instead of self hosting an analytics
       | solution.
        
         | xeromal wrote:
         | Easy
        
         | hhh wrote:
         | Is it illegal in the United States?
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | No
        
           | blibble wrote:
           | the GDPR doesn't care where the website is as long as it's
           | accessible to EU citizens
           | 
           | it would be most amusing to watch the EU commission attempt
           | to enforce its extraterritorial !bad, bad cookies! law
           | against the US federal government on its own website
        
         | qiqitori wrote:
         | Back in my day, the mantra was "Information wants to be free",
         | and laws limiting freedom on the internet and freedom of
         | information were looked down upon.
        
           | shadowgovt wrote:
           | Back in the day usage of the internet grossly over-
           | represented one country with a concept of free speech that,
           | by global standards, is extremist.
        
             | VWWHFSfQ wrote:
             | I'm not sure I understand what you're saying
        
               | shadowgovt wrote:
               | As a DARPA project, the early internet was populated
               | almost exclusively by Americans for quite a long time. It
               | grew rapidly, but I suspect that you're thinking about
               | the culture that was steeped in almost everybody you
               | talked to being an American.
               | 
               | Americans have a philosophy of the freedom of speech
               | grounded in the principles of the First Amendment. Those
               | principles are not universally shared, and indeed, even
               | amongst the liberal nations the American take on the
               | topic is pretty liberal (contrast the way, say, speech
               | overtly supporting fascism is treated in Germany vs. the
               | relatively new and controversial hate speech laws in the
               | US, or the principles of affirmative defense for
               | defamation in the US not shared by the UK, or the Refused
               | Classification category for videogames in Australia, or
               | the fact that the law of against "publication or
               | utterance of blasphemous matter" was repealed in Ireland
               | in 2020).
               | 
               | As the average internet user grows to resemble more the
               | average human than the average American human, regression
               | to the international mean on freedom of information is to
               | be anticipated.
        
         | notatoad wrote:
         | is there a self-hosted alternative that provides the same
         | functionality?
        
           | EricE wrote:
           | Lots! One that I really liked - tried on a small personal
           | project so not sure how it works at scale:
           | https://plausible.io/self-hosted-web-analytics
        
       | caaqil wrote:
       | From the data at
       | https://analytics.usa.gov/data/live/browsers.json, Microsoft Edge
       | has more than 2x the users of Firefox (322,890,632 vs
       | 143,040,483).
        
         | gibolt wrote:
         | That makes sense considering Edge is a default browser on the
         | most popular (desktop) OS, and this is from a random
         | distribution of users.
        
         | ricardobayes wrote:
         | What's 'Mercary_d'? 4 million page views over 90 days and
         | haven't even heard of it yet. Same for 'Welltory'.
        
         | NV2k9JtLJpba5BN wrote:
         | `totals.browser` contains user agents (or something similar).
         | 
         | Why are there (personal?) email addresses in there as well? Who
         | sets that as their user agent?
        
           | keewee7 wrote:
           | >Why are there (personal?) email addresses in there as well?
           | Who sets that as their user agent?
           | 
           | Might be some programming exercise. It's a common network
           | programming exercise to build a HTTP client using bare
           | sockets. But they don't look like student email addresses.
        
           | NavinF wrote:
           | Some APIs require contact info in the user agent header. For
           | example, all calls to the reddit API are supposed to contain
           | the dev's reddit /u/username in the user agent.
        
           | mxuribe wrote:
           | I think for respectful web scraping it is common/preferred
           | etiquette to include some contact info.
        
         | antisthenes wrote:
         | 124 people still rocking Netscape!
        
           | TonyTrapp wrote:
           | Or bots. When I still cared about visitor statistics 10+
           | years ago, I saw unrealistic amounts of visitors using old
           | versions of Netscape, browsers on Amiga and other niche
           | systems. They were probably all bots in disguise.
        
           | reaperducer wrote:
           | Last week, one of those was me. I was messing with old VM
           | images and was using .gov web sites for testing connectivity.
        
           | deepstack wrote:
           | and 2039 are on "whatever you want". That's kind of browser I
           | want to use.
        
             | dalbin wrote:
             | "whatever you want" is the User-Agent in the top answer for
             | "Change user-agent for Selenium web-driver" on Stack
             | Overflow :
             | 
             | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/29916054/change-user-
             | age...
        
               | EricE wrote:
               | I love it when people put the instruction for what to
               | enter into a field instead of actually filling out the
               | field.
               | 
               | I run into it ALL the time and no matter how you write
               | instructions, at least 1/3 of people won't read them but
               | just skim to what they think they need and then
               | copy/paste. Ugh.
        
         | ixnus wrote:
         | Also shows a shocking 90,832 users viewing who are users of
         | 'BestBuy'.
        
       | Aeolun wrote:
       | Yes, the only place with less visitors than the 'Department for
       | Housing and Urban Development' is the 'National Science
       | Foundation'.
       | 
       | Sign of the times?
        
         | kortilla wrote:
         | But why would a regular person visit those sites? I hold a PhD
         | and I think I visited the nsf website <50 times during my
         | entire academic career.
        
           | tagoregrtst wrote:
           | Im a researcher in a government lab and I don't think Ive
           | ever been on it.
           | 
           | NIST? Definitely
           | 
           | LLNL MPI tutorials? Obviously.
           | 
           | But NSF... never?
        
             | earthscienceman wrote:
             | Also a professional researcher in a government lab. The NSF
             | site is a once or twice a year visit.
        
       | Victerius wrote:
       | Breakdown:
       | 
       | By device type:
       | 
       | Mobile 53.7%
       | 
       | Desktop 44.1%
       | 
       | Tablet 1.9%
       | 
       | By browser:
       | 
       | Chrome 48%
       | 
       | Safari 36.2%
       | 
       | Edge 6.4%
       | 
       | Firefox 2.8%
       | 
       | My personal conclusions:
       | 
       | Tablets remain a niche product, Firefox is dead, and Edge will be
       | dead in a few years if it can't eat more market share, which it
       | won't.
        
         | warvariuc wrote:
         | It means that Edge is less used within Mobile device type.
        
         | mrintellectual wrote:
         | I am fairly certain this is a side effect of people sharing
         | this link through messaging apps, thereby inflating Chrome
         | (default browser for Android devices) and Safari (default
         | browser for Apple devices) relative to Firefox.
        
         | tomcam wrote:
         | Many many tablets are reported as mobile
        
         | sersi wrote:
         | The problem is that a lot of Firefox users block google
         | analytics, so it would not surprise me that Firefox is very
         | much underrepresented.
        
         | reaperducer wrote:
         | _Tablets remain a niche product_
         | 
         | iPads don't show themselves to be iPads. They read as full
         | computers.
         | 
         | It's an anti-profiling feature Apple added a few years ago.
        
         | amitport wrote:
         | It's not dead. US gov sites do not represent the entire web.
         | 
         | https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
        
           | Victerius wrote:
           | US gov sites may not represent the entire web, but the
           | platforms that the entire population uses to access
           | government websites, does. People don't use a different
           | browser for the State Department and for Facebook. The data
           | presented here is actually reflective. If anything, it's
           | conservative. Not many teens are looking up tax forms or
           | passport renewal forms (their parents do it for them). And
           | these young users are less likely to use anything other than
           | Chrome and Safari.
        
             | amitport wrote:
             | US is not the world. Just felt like it had to be stated.
        
               | black3r wrote:
               | currently it states that 56.3% visitors there are from
               | outside the US.
        
               | Liquid_Fire wrote:
               | It's currently nighttime in the US, so that's not too
               | surprising.
               | 
               | But it doesn't mean that the overall fraction of visitors
               | from outside the US is that high.
        
               | amitport wrote:
               | The people that surf to US gov sites (even from outside
               | the US), IMO, are not a very good sample of the world's
               | web users.
        
           | charcircuit wrote:
           | The US has more spending power than most of the rest of the
           | world.
        
       | patcon wrote:
       | Ack. I've used PubMed for over a decade (since it was taught as
       | the de facto way to search the science literature in my Canadian
       | university) and it never occurred to me that it was a US federal
       | government website :facepalm:
        
         | EricE wrote:
         | Any home page with FOIA in the footer is probably a US
         | Government website :) Same if they also have usa.gov as a link.
        
           | kube-system wrote:
           | ... or if the TLD is 'gov'.
           | 
           | https://home.dotgov.gov
        
       | substructure wrote:
       | Correct me if I'm wrong, but this shows that in the last 90 days
       | 5.06 billion visits came from 31.3% Windows while 1.1% were from
       | GNU/Linux. If we assume that both groups visit government
       | websites equally often, then for every GNU/Linux user there exist
       | (31.3/1.1) = 28.5 Windows users. Scary stuff.
        
         | mywaifuismeta wrote:
         | > If we assume that both groups visit government websites
         | equally often
         | 
         | My pattern matching experience from real life tells me that
         | this is unlikely....
        
         | iqanq wrote:
         | Really you assume there are as many Linux users as there are
         | Windows users, or am I misunderstanding you?
        
         | fareesh wrote:
         | In my social circles I know a grand total of zero GNU/Linux
         | users. I am the only one
        
         | haroldp wrote:
         | For what it's worth, Linux is over represented in the (fake)
         | User-agent strings of the bots that attack my web servers. Most
         | probably are indeed on linux, since they are predominantly
         | scripts running on cloud providers. :)
        
         | [deleted]
        
         | georgyo wrote:
         | This is heavily skewed by iOS being used for USPS shipping.
         | 
         | The following is for people logging into government services,
         | it is a better source for metrics on browsers/OS usage.
         | 
         | https://analytics.usa.gov/general-services-administration/
        
           | substructure wrote:
           | That site shows 113.1 million visits in the last 90 days with
           | 47.2% being Windows and 1.2% linux. (47.2/1.2) = 39.3 windows
           | users for every linux user.
           | 
           | I agree that it is skewed in a number of ways. I just wanted
           | to estimate a lower bound.
           | 
           | Thank you for pointing out a better source of data for my use
           | case.
        
         | NavinF wrote:
         | 1.1% is way too high. I bet they didn't filter out all the
         | scrapers that poll gov't websites.
         | 
         | Hmm I wonder if just parsing the HTML still works like it did 8
         | years ago when I had to scrape the USPS:
         | https://github.com/NavinF/USPS-scraper/blob/master/USPS_scra...
         | As long as the USPS only allows API requests from browsers (as
         | opposed to the much more common situation where you need to
         | update the status of every tracking number in a database),
         | people still have to scrape their website pretending to be a
         | browser.
        
           | jjeaff wrote:
           | The USPS has long had an API. I don't remember it being fun
           | to work with, but it has a lot of functionality.
        
             | NavinF wrote:
             | Oh they had an API 8 years ago too. It's just that they
             | only let you use that API from JavaScript running on your
             | users' browsers.
             | 
             | The undocumented tiny ratelimits and threat of bans for
             | server-side API users (while no such ratelimits applied to
             | the HTML pages) forced pretty much every app to scrape
             | their HTML server side.
             | 
             | From my README which quotes their old docs: "Note: The
             | United States Postal Service expressly prohibits the use of
             | Web Tools "scripting" without prior approval. Web Tools
             | scripting can be defined as a technique to generate large
             | volumes of Web Tools XML request transactions that are
             | database- or batch-driven under program control, instead of
             | being driven by individual user requests from a web site or
             | a client software package. The USPS reserves the right to
             | suspend server access without notification by any offending
             | party that does not have prior approval for Web Tools
             | scripting. Registered Web Tools customers that believe they
             | have a legitimate requirement for Web Tools scripting
             | should contact the ICCC to request approval."
             | 
             | What an asinine process.
        
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       (page generated 2022-01-20 23:02 UTC)