[HN Gopher] Equipping backbone networks with DNS resolution infr...
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       Equipping backbone networks with DNS resolution infrastructures
        
       Author : nixass
       Score  : 138 points
       Date   : 2022-01-19 12:40 UTC (10 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (hadea.ec.europa.eu)
 (TXT) w3m dump (hadea.ec.europa.eu)
        
       | jhoelzel wrote:
       | yep and we are not going to use them because thats how censorship
       | aparatus are getting started.
       | 
       | At some point you accept that the NSA is snooping through my
       | internet history, just because im reminded what the "privacy
       | centered" alternative means.
       | 
       | Let sum this up:
       | 
       | - dont trust the DNS of your ISP - dont trust the ones from
       | google or microsoft either - same goes for other telecom
       | companies - quad9 has been instructed by law to change their dns
       | servers for some entries
       | 
       | which finally lets me have my doubts about cloudflare and co
       | too...
       | 
       | IMHO DNS can not be saved. But hey we might finally have a use
       | case for the blockchain ;)
        
         | rasengan wrote:
         | > blockchain
         | 
         | I agree - DNS is the second best use case for blockchain [1] to
         | money.
         | 
         | [1] https://handshake.org/
        
       | izzytcp wrote:
       | Cough. The Great Firewall. Cough.
        
       | axegon_ wrote:
       | Good news, except for one thing:
       | 
       | > 12. Lawful filtering: Filtering of URLs leading to illegal
       | content based on legal requirements applicable in the EU or in
       | national jurisdictions (e.g. based on court orders), in full
       | compliance with EU rules.
       | 
       | Don't get me wrong, I am a supporter of the EU in general, BUT...
       | The heavy bureaucracy is the main reason for it's slow pace with
       | just about everything. With this in mind, point 12 might put a
       | lot of people in a long deadlock.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | I don't necessarily see a problem with it. What it says is
         | "this thing has to follow the law", because such censorship
         | laws already exist across the EU, for better or for worse.
         | 
         | It depends on how this is structured though, this might just as
         | well be an attempt by the entertainment industry to extend
         | their reach in blocking torrent sites. Perhaps that take is a
         | little cynical, but I wouldn't be surprised.
         | 
         | We'll have to see how this develops to be sure. I, for one,
         | welcome a public European DNS resolver, because it allows the
         | resolver to just focus on being a good resolver without relying
         | on some kind of (usually shady) business model.
        
       | toyg wrote:
       | Good news (more infrastructure in the critical sphere is always
       | welcome) but the real endgame is buried deep down:
       | 
       |  _> 12. Lawful filtering: Filtering of URLs leading to illegal
       | content based on legal requirements applicable in the EU or in
       | national jurisdictions (e.g. based on court orders), in full
       | compliance with EU rules._
       | 
       | But yeah, it's the sort of thing that it's better done at EU
       | level rather than in 27 different, weak and uncoordinated ways.
       | Offices and schools would be very happy to use it, I bet.
        
         | kiidev wrote:
         | What about?
         | 
         | > 5. Premium and wholesale services: Provide opt-in paid
         | premium services for enhanced security (e.g. ad hoc filtering,
         | monitoring, 24x7 support), tailored to specific sectorial needs
         | (e.g. cloud, finance, health, transport), as well as wholesale
         | resolution services for other digital service providers,
         | including ISPs and cloud service providers.
        
           | salzig wrote:
           | 5. and 12. are really concerning. IMHO the EU should invest
           | in a DNS Infrastructure that is resilient to censoring
           | (copyright or political) and operate it as non profit.
           | 
           | Edit: to be clear, non profit doesn't mean it can't charge
           | money, profit shouldn't be a concern/target.
        
             | emteycz wrote:
             | Are we talking about the same EU? The EU does this _for_
             | censoring and monitoring, not against it - and they 're
             | totally open about it too. Google "Zensursula"...
        
               | salzig wrote:
               | Then the EU shouldn't invest any money. Cause if you
               | can't improve the situation, stop wasting money on it.
        
               | toyg wrote:
               | From the perspective of public accountability, this is a
               | step forward compared to the current status quo - where
               | some countries implement blacklists and some don't, some
               | are accountable and some aren't, etc etc. The EU dns
               | would then work as public registry of such activities,
               | also clarifying and harmonising the bar for acceptable
               | censorship (i.e. opposition activity in Hungary? Not
               | bannable...).
        
               | [deleted]
        
               | wongarsu wrote:
               | I would expect quite a lot of resistance to monitoring
               | efforts, even if they are paid opt-ins (which will mostly
               | be used by schools and employers, the same way they
               | already use similar services that do the same).
               | 
               | Censoring of illegal content is much less controversial,
               | and already happening to various degrees at the ISP
               | provided DNS servers. You can make good arguments for
               | transparency and oversight by the courts, but that's as
               | far as it usually goes. Hard to argue that illegal things
               | should be publicly accessible.
        
               | 5736uhhdohr wrote:
               | It's not at all hard to argue that illegal things should
               | be publicly accessible. I find it impossible to argue
               | that governments should be able to decide what
               | information is publicly accessible. There is no
               | relationship between legality and morality.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | I don't see a problem with some commercial element in public
           | services, as long as it's reasonable and transparent. As long
           | as the public mission is still satisfied, it's just a good
           | way to reduce reliance on general taxation.
           | 
           | The amount of such services you can provide for DNS is quite
           | limited anyway. Maybe you can guarantee higher QoS on
           | response times where this is critical, but that's about it.
           | Maybe they can make non-EU-based businesses pay to use it.
        
         | varispeed wrote:
         | Yes they won't have to depend on private companies to suppress
         | inconvenient content. You will probably never learn about many
         | things in the future.
        
         | smarx007 wrote:
         | I am surprised with such sentiments every time I hear them. How
         | do you envision running a server in EU without complying with
         | the EU laws and obeying the court orders?
        
           | sneak wrote:
           | There's a significant stretch between "running a server [...]
           | complying with the EU laws" and using DNS to do mass
           | censorship.
           | 
           | Censorship is abhorrent, and mass, government-mandated
           | censorship even moreso. End to end encrypted DNS resolution
           | (via DoH) needs to be widely deployed. Using unencrypted,
           | unauthenticated protocols in 2022 is madness. DNS is closer
           | to Telnet than it is to the modern web.
        
         | emteycz wrote:
         | > But yeah, it's the sort of thing that it's better done at EU
         | level rather than in 27 different, weak and uncoordinated ways.
         | Offices and schools would be very happy to use it, I bet.
         | 
         | No, 27 uncoordinated ways means 27 ways of going around. That's
         | better in this case. No government the size of EU should have
         | control of the internet.
        
           | samhw wrote:
           | For what it's worth, the EU is not a government. There will
           | still be 27 countries implementing it - like browser vendors
           | implementing a spec - and, again much like browser vendors,
           | they won't be doing it in a well-coordinated fashion. It will
           | be rife with <blink>s.
           | 
           | (Also, just for future reference, it's _the_ EU. Americans
           | have a habit of doing this, also with the UK, and I don't
           | understand it at all because your country is _the_ US.)
        
             | emteycz wrote:
             | You're wrong about the EU, the setup you're talking about
             | is long gone - since the Treaty of Lisbon to be specific,
             | ratified over 10 years ago.
             | 
             | EU regulations are effective even without any mention in
             | the local law. EU directives must be implemented within the
             | time limit or the state will be sued at the EU court (not
             | local court!) and made to pay fines until it's implemented.
             | Thus, the EU quacks just like a government.
             | 
             | > and, again much like browser vendors, they won't be doing
             | it in a well-coordinated fashion. It will be rife with
             | <blink>s
             | 
             | Hopefully, but most definitely not simply because "the EU
             | is not a government". It is enough of a government to avert
             | this issue - e.g. see vaccination passports.
             | 
             | > (Also, just for future reference, it's _the_ EU.
             | Americans have a habit of doing this, also with the UK, and
             | I don't understand it at all because your country is _the_
             | US.)
             | 
             | I'm Czech, not American. My native language doesn't use
             | "the" or "a" at all. I'll watch my English better.
        
               | teh_klev wrote:
               | > I'll watch my English better.
               | 
               | I think your english is perfectly fine and that "mistake"
               | wasn't worth nitpicking over. We're an international
               | community and we need to let some things go for the sake
               | of maintaining our sanity.
        
               | samhw wrote:
               | I don't think every spelling correction has to be taken
               | as an attack, as is implicit in your comment. I'm glad to
               | have people correct me when I'm wrong, since it makes me
               | better at whatever I'm doing. It seems to me what's
               | unhelpful is not correction, but the feeling that one
               | must always be correct, that there's no room for growth.
               | 
               | That being said, I think it's absolutely fair enough for
               | the parent commenter not to know that. Their English is
               | certainly better than my Czech. For Americans - divided
               | by a common language - it's a more bewildering (and
               | bewilderingly common) mistake.
        
               | ralph84 wrote:
               | English is defined by usage. If enough people make the
               | same "mistake", it's not a mistake.
        
               | samhw wrote:
               | Haha, yes, we're not nearly at that point yet. It's not
               | quite _that_ common...
        
               | teh_klev wrote:
               | Oh I didn't see it as an attack, just not that necessary.
               | Also I'm based in Scotland and english is my first
               | language, but I've learned to relax a bit as I get older,
               | even with Americans and their torturing of the language
               | :)
        
               | samhw wrote:
               | > You're wrong about the EU, the setup you're talking
               | about is long gone
               | 
               | Sure, the EU might have more authority than you would
               | like, or more than it used to, but 'government' has a
               | specific meaning - and the EU is not that.
               | 
               | The EU doesn't have a monopoly on the use of force. It
               | can make regulations, and countries may follow them for
               | whatever reason, but ultimately their regulations have no
               | more intrinsic force than me saying "I command that
               | everyone wear clogs on the bus".
               | 
               | I can see that your comment tries to trace the EU's
               | regulations back down to some meaningful authority over
               | the sovereign countries, and stops at 'made to pay fines
               | in an EU court'. 'Made' is doing a lot of work here.
               | There is nothing 'making' the countries pay those fines,
               | besides a desire to stay on good terms within the EU.
               | 
               | Again, I too can issue the country of Italy a fine, and
               | they may even choose to pay it if they sufficiently value
               | their relationship with me, but that doesn't represent
               | legal authority. Compare it with what happened to
               | southern states during Reconstruction, or in the 1960s
               | when they tried to refuse the federal government's
               | directive to integrate schools. Indeed, compare Brexit
               | with the American Civil War. _Monopoly on the use of
               | force within a certain territory._
               | 
               | This is a fascinating topic, and a very subtle one, but
               | it's more interesting to think about if you go at it
               | without an axe to grind.
               | 
               | > I'm Czech, not American. My native language doesn't use
               | "the" or "a" at all. I'll watch my English better.
               | 
               | Ah, fair enough. It's mostly Americans who do it, and
               | they have no such excuse, haha.
        
               | emteycz wrote:
               | As far as I know, no definition of "government" requires
               | it to have monopoly on force. A "state" as defined by
               | Weber should have it, but Weber's own definition says
               | governments and states are separate things - especially
               | in a multi-layered system like the EU (Wikipedia lists ht
               | tps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iroquois#Iroquois_Confederacy
               | as an example of this situation).
        
           | jyounker wrote:
           | I think that cat is already out of the bag.
        
         | gypsyharlot wrote:
         | The world's largest bureaucracy (EU) will continue with its
         | bullying of everyone with different opinions. In a worst case
         | scenario, this won't be optional, and they will cancel everyone
         | with different opinions, like Hungary and Poland.
        
           | sabjut wrote:
           | The entire point of the EU is to form consensus for the
           | betterment of Europe. Different opinions are important but
           | create friction. Agreement, yes sometimes against ones own
           | opinion, is necessary to strengthen the EU. Individuals in an
           | alliance that regularly strive against agreements and
           | consensus are hurting the alliance, hurting Europe.
           | 
           | If consensus is apparently not desired we can go back to the
           | European patchwork where the rules change significantly every
           | 100km and doing trade is 10x harder.
        
             | toyg wrote:
             | Sadly the UK took that hit for the others, making the
             | disadvantages of leaving very clear. So these guys will
             | continue staying in the tent while pissing inside of it,
             | sadly. But sooner or later a reckoning will happen, either
             | in Europe or in their own countries.
        
           | loriverkutya wrote:
           | If the opinions are homophobic as they are in case of
           | Hungary, I'm very happy that the EU is "bullying". I wish it
           | would also be the case with the ongoing corruption in
           | Hungary.
        
           | jyounker wrote:
           | Ah yes, opinions like "promotion of homosexuality or other
           | disorders of sexual behavior" should be punished with up to
           | eight years in prison. (A proposed amendment to the Hungarian
           | constitution.)
           | 
           | Or opinions such as the government take-over of all
           | independent broadcasters in Poland.
        
             | samhw wrote:
             | I mean, hey, SCOTUS decided in _Citizens United_ that
             | political donations were constitutionally protected
             | expressions of opinion, so all bets are off...
        
           | [deleted]
        
           | ricardobeat wrote:
           | What "opinions" do Hungary and Poland hold?
        
             | mrtksn wrote:
             | "opinion" is probably the wrong word when we are talking
             | about countries but people in Hungary and Poland seem to
             | favour more nationalistic and conservative politics and
             | have a thing for strong leaders.
             | 
             | It's a bit like California v.s. Alabama situation. Also,
             | not limited to Poland and Hungary, it pans along the West
             | v.s. East, so it's like North vs South in the US.
             | 
             | For example, EU says you have right to bring your partner
             | to EU. Then Denmark says that you can register a long term
             | relationship and have the full rights without a formal
             | marriage, Poland will say that you need to marry.
             | 
             | It also goes beyond the social issues as the strong leaders
             | tend to mangle with the judiciary system to make their ways
             | and EU is really not happy about it. When that happens, the
             | countries get fined and their leaders will bash EU in a
             | similar way like some American politician bash the federal
             | government.
        
             | sabjut wrote:
             | You can check for your self in the username of your parent
             | comment, which includes a racial slur. This specific slur
             | is common in Hungary so make of that what you will when
             | judging the amount of bias in that comment.
             | 
             | On a side note I am not sure if that username complies with
             | HN TOS.
        
               | [deleted]
        
             | Muromec wrote:
             | hating on gays, muslims and separation of judiciary from
             | executive are definitely opinions
        
               | samhw wrote:
               | An opinion is something that can be represented as a
               | proposition about the world. It's the non-factive
               | superclass of a fact: i.e. the structure of a fact, but
               | not requiring/entailing the property of truth. Hatred is
               | not an opinion, it's an emotion.
               | 
               | For more information, have a look at this fantastic
               | Buzzfeed article:
               | https://www.buzzfeed.com/ludwigwittgenstein/fantastic-
               | ways-t...
        
           | mschuster91 wrote:
           | > everyone with different opinions, like Hungary and Poland
           | 
           | The human rights of LGBT people and refugees or the right to
           | freedom of the press or to a fair trial in front of an
           | independent court are valid _EU wide_ , guaranteed by the
           | contracts that Hungary and Poland signed when they joined the
           | EU.
           | 
           | Opposing these human rights is not an "opinion", it's an
           | assault on the core values that make up the European Union -
           | and the rest of the EU (particularly Germany, given that the
           | former Chancellor's party was a sister party of the Fidesz
           | for a long time!) has stayed silent for far too long.
        
         | 5736uhhdohr wrote:
         | That doesn't sound like good news at all. Anything that makes
         | the internet easier to censor and control is very bad news.
        
         | mschuster91 wrote:
         | > But yeah, it's the sort of thing that it's better done at EU
         | level rather than in 27 different, weak and uncoordinated ways.
         | 
         | Sure, let's give Kaczynski and Orban the keys to censoring LGBT
         | content or regime critical media across the entire EU.
         | 
         | Sarcasm aside: any kind of censorship infrastructure _will_ get
         | abused sooner or later. No matter if it 's criminals, trolls,
         | religious fundamentalists (particularly where it concerns LGBT
         | matters, sex work or gambling) or plain old wannabe dictators.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | I reckon the opposite will happen - no single government will
           | be able to implement unreasonable censorship, because there
           | will be a higher bar for accepting blocks. Or are you arguing
           | that Orban and Kaczynski have more control in Bruxelles than
           | at home? Because that's definitely not the case; if anything,
           | they are more isolated at European level than they are in
           | their own countries.
        
         | teekert wrote:
         | I love DNS based filtering because it is so easy to circumvent.
         | Even nontechie friends I just tell to enable dns-over-https in
         | FireFox. Welcome back TPB (which is DNS blocked in my country).
        
       | laszlokorte wrote:
       | From Biedermann und die Brandstifter (German) [1] (The Fire
       | Raisers) [2]                  - ... [you gave them] matches?!!
       | - why not? Don't you think, if they were really fire raisers,
       | that they would have brought their own matches?        (laughter)
       | 
       | [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrGmNXjjDNk
       | 
       | [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fire_Raisers_(play)
        
         | LeanderK wrote:
         | I am not sure what you want to imply...but isn't it just a
         | governmental alternative? I would guess that the current dns
         | resolvers are in the hands of a few huge, monopolistic
         | companies like google or cloudflare.
        
       | BiteCode_dev wrote:
       | Even if the censorship implications are a bit obvious, it's good
       | that:
       | 
       | - we have more alternatives
       | 
       | - we add to the global network for resilience
       | 
       | - we increase our independence from the USA for something so
       | critical
       | 
       | - we get more control over our little part of the internet in
       | case of a digital attack
       | 
       | Provided we can always switch to an alternative DNS server from
       | inside the EU if we need to, it's a net positive.
        
         | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
         | There is one problem. If the change in question is related to
         | just having an alternate DNS stucture, that's perfectly fine.
         | Because it doesn't mean users are forced to use it: at any
         | moment, I can force my machine to use any DNS server I choose
         | and it will respect that.
         | 
         | However, if they actually implement URL filtering, it might
         | mean something completely different: that IP addresses of
         | SciHub/Libgen will be blocked by the ISPs in the whole of EU no
         | matter DNS server I use. Not all countries would individually
         | agree to that.
        
           | vidarh wrote:
           | Unless they go full on Great Firewall and block VPNs all
           | they'd achieve is to make VPNs go even more mainstream (and
           | while many adults may still not be used to VPNs, they can ask
           | their kids - most of my sons friends all have VPNs set up for
           | everything from evading region blocks for content to ban
           | evasion from game servers)
        
           | azernik wrote:
           | I don't know where you're getting that IP-level filtering is
           | the only way to "actually implementing URL filtering" - if
           | they're talking about URL filtering as a feature of a new DNS
           | infrastructure, then the most likely assumption is that
           | they're talking about DNS-level filtering.
        
             | hdjjhhvvhga wrote:
             | My assumption is based on the fact that DNS-based filtering
             | ("of URLs leading to illegal content") simply doesn't work
             | and is trivial to circumvent both by the client and the
             | server, so the countries that block Libgen&co. do so at the
             | ISP level using IP filtering.
        
               | azernik wrote:
               | It is trivial to circumvent.
               | 
               | And countries and ISPs still do it all the time, because
               | most consumers are not capable of even the trivial step
               | of changing DNS servers. e.g. in the UK blocking is
               | usually just implemented by DNS filter.
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | The way I read it, the proposal is that ISPs and other
           | providers of recursive resolvers _MAY_ implement  "value-
           | added" filtering services. I didn't see anything about some
           | central filtering agency that had the power to force some
           | filter-package into every recursive resolver in the EU.
        
         | kasey_junk wrote:
         | Pardon my ignorance but in what way are EU citizens dependent
         | on US DNS infrastructure prior to the introduction to this? And
         | how does this infrastructure remove that dependence?
        
           | Medowar wrote:
           | All big public DNS Resolvers are US-based. Google,
           | Cloudflare, OpenDNS(Cisco). Quad9 is Swiss-based, so
           | technicaly not EU-based.
        
             | IiydAbITMvJkqKf wrote:
             | All ISPs in my country run their own recursive resolvers
             | (with IPs resolving to my country). How "big" a resolver is
             | does not matter at all - it's not a social network; the
             | resolver either works or it doesn't work.
             | 
             | Some of the root servers are also in the EU, so there is
             | zero dependence on the USA for resolving european ccTLDs.
        
               | plainnoodles wrote:
               | There is some level of importance in bigness. All the
               | major public resolvers let nameserver operators (well,
               | anyone, really) clear cached records. Which turns out to
               | be a not-uncommon occurrence. I wrote my own DNS server,
               | so I've been paying a ton of attention to this stuff, and
               | I've found several scenarios where website operators
               | (even, for instance, instagram!) seem to have wanted to
               | change some DNS records but weren't happy with the TTLs
               | they'd advertised on them, and instead of waiting them
               | out, just cleared caches with the major resolvers and
               | then gone ahead and turned off the old IPs.
               | 
               | With the end result that I had to go in and remove those
               | records from my cache, too.
        
           | goodpoint wrote:
           | In _every_ way. The US controls the TLDs and many of the core
           | resolvers.
        
             | kasey_junk wrote:
             | This doesn't address the tld issue and does it matter if a
             | lot of people use US authoritative resolvers? Each domain
             | can choose and the protocol isn't biased towards US
             | controlled infrastructure.
             | 
             | I can see the value in dns as public utility (though one
             | I'd be skeptical about using or paying for) but this
             | doesn't seem to do what the OP suggests on the US
             | independence front because DNS is already independent.
             | 
             | I'd be a lot more understanding of a public email provider
             | than DNS to promote a break with US infrastructure.
        
               | toyg wrote:
               | Email would be fun. Beyond the rhetoric, a lot of EU
               | governments are actually quite tyrannical when it comes
               | to intercepting or seizing communications, compared to
               | the US.
        
             | emteycz wrote:
             | The US doesn't control the national TLDs nor the .eu TLD in
             | any way. The core resolvers can be replaced at a moment's
             | notice in case of problems.
        
         | gypsyharlot wrote:
         | As long as they remain alternatives, it is okay. But given that
         | this is the EU, it won't be optional for very long.
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | I don't think there is much prospect of the EU banning me
           | from using my own recursive resolver. And I find it hard to
           | see how they might try to enforce it.
        
         | glenstein wrote:
         | Pleasantly surprised to see this degree of nuance in top level
         | comments.
         | 
         | I do find it very alarming that they want to bake in "lawful
         | filtering" and especially alarming that they want to bring in
         | "premium and wholesale services."
         | 
         | In the best case scenario, if EU had a record of reasonable
         | enforcement or ahead-of-the-curve thinking this might be okay,
         | I don't think there's anything suggesting that the EU is
         | thinking ahead or capable of imagining unintended downstream
         | consequences.
         | 
         | I think more DNS is better, which is good, but its balanced
         | with some concern.
        
         | easytiger wrote:
         | > Provided we can always switch to an alternative DNS servers
         | from inside the EU if we need too, it's a net positive.
         | 
         | After the past decade why would you think they will allow that?
        
           | BiteCode_dev wrote:
           | Why would I think they would not?
           | 
           | No matter how many bad things the EU does (and I'm not blind
           | to them), after traveling all around the world, working in
           | the US, Asia and Africa, it's still the place where I feel
           | the most free.
           | 
           | I trust them much more to not go complete bonkers than
           | Russia, the USA or China.
           | 
           | In fact, the GPRD, the right for repair and the various
           | attacks at tracking are quite to my liking.
           | 
           | I'm not ruling out the possibility they mess it up, but I
           | stay optimist.
        
         | Shadonototra wrote:
         | > Even if the censorship implications are a bit obvious, it's
         | good that:
         | 
         | LOL, sure, we better at the mercy of the american censorship
         | and 'tracking' system
        
         | bambataa wrote:
         | > - we get more control over our little part of the internet in
         | case of digital attack
         | 
         | I'd love to hear what people think about this. To me it's
         | notable that Russia and China have taken steps to separate
         | their internet access from the wider, global network. While the
         | West continues to centralise its network access in the hands of
         | a few companies. Presumably this makes Russia and China more
         | protected from attacks on the global network.
         | 
         | Am I correct in thinking in this way? Could Russia and China
         | continue with internal internets even if the global one went
         | down, or are they actually as at risk as anyone else? I'm
         | guessing that China's censorship systems and firewalls are
         | fairly centralised and so vulnerable in their own way.
        
           | toyg wrote:
           | _> Presumably this makes Russia and China more protected from
           | attacks on the global network._
           | 
           | Of course. And North Korea is probably more protected against
           | terrorist attacks than most of the "free world". That doesn't
           | mean it's a good trade-off in general.
           | 
           | In practical terms, it depends on what you mean "continue
           | with their internal internets". Most of the points of failure
           | for "internet use as understood by the public", are actually
           | just implementation mistakes by private companies - i.e.
           | nobody says you have to host on (and hence go down with) AWS,
           | or rely on (and hence go down with) Facebook/Google Login.
           | 
           | DNS is distributed (it's in the name!); if rootservers went
           | down there would be hiccups for sure, but they could be
           | fixed. Same for the rest of the fundamental network stack;
           | after all, the internet was built to withstand nuclear
           | attack. Whether it would be a good experience (i.e. slow,
           | private services not working, etc), that's something else. If
           | you're based in China and you rely on FB Login, no amount of
           | governmental infrastructure will help you when FB becomes
           | unreachable.
        
             | bambataa wrote:
             | I'm thinking about fairly close to doomsday scenarios.
             | 
             | If/when we reach a point of extreme tension with tit for
             | tat cyber attacks, would Western countries be totally
             | incapacitated for days or weeks while Russia or China were
             | less impacted? Things like food supply, public services
             | etc.
             | 
             | Perhaps such things would escalate so quickly that the
             | internet would be the least of our worries.
        
       | throw7 wrote:
       | The EU got us cookie popups all over the web that you can't even
       | simply answer no to. No thanks.
        
         | sofixa wrote:
         | It got you knowledge and consent. Cookie popups are malicious
         | compliance by shady sites and vendors, especially those that
         | "you can't even simply answer no to". Blame them, not the EU
         | for bringing them to light ( like you'd blame Coca-Cola for the
         | amount of sugar in their sugary drinks and not the regulator
         | that made them show it front and center).
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | This is correct; the cookie banners are an attempt to annoy
           | the EU into abandoning GDPR. Ain't gonna work - we like GDPR.
           | 
           | Just use a cookie-blocker (e.g. the one built into your
           | browser), along with some kind of popup-dismisser (e.g. Super
           | Agent, https://www.super-agent.com/). If your browser is
           | configured to block cookies (third-party, or whatever kind
           | you don't want), then it doesn't matter if the popup-
           | dismisser auto-clicks "Accept".
           | 
           | The thing that annoys me more is those US local news-services
           | that outright block access from IPs that they think are
           | within the EU. They aren't pitching their content at a EU
           | audience, so they don't care. But if they're already checking
           | where the visitor's IP is, couldn't they just decline to
           | serve cookies? I think they're just ignorant about GDPR.
           | 
           | It's not hard to grok GDPR and comply with it, unless you
           | have a business built around collecting PII.
           | 
           | [Edit] Incidentally, I'm not in the EU, since Brexit. That
           | was two years ago - but I'm still blocked from e.g. LA Times.
        
             | Proven wrote:
        
           | Proven wrote:
        
       | nixass wrote:
       | English version https://hadea.ec.europa.eu/calls-
       | proposals/equipping-backbon...
        
       | easytiger wrote:
       | No thanks
        
       | ricardobeat wrote:
       | The idea of the internet as public infrastructure is great, but
       | maybe we can keep the decentralization of today? This would put
       | enormous (censoring) power in the hands of government entities.
        
       | talolard wrote:
       | My knee-jerk reaction is "cookie banners"
        
         | Avamander wrote:
         | Cookie banners or GDPR consent banners are the embodiment of
         | malicious compliance.
        
         | jeroenhd wrote:
         | Every cookie banner is a middle finger to your privacy. The law
         | says "don't track people without consent" and the data hoarders
         | decided to respond by making your life as difficult as
         | possible.
         | 
         | Most websites don't need cookie banners. They choose to make
         | you suffer through them. Take your anger out on those websites,
         | not on sensible legislation.
        
         | wongarsu wrote:
         | The intention was that sites would rather ease up on the
         | cookies than force everyone to agree to them. Didn't really pan
         | out that way
        
       | anshumankmr wrote:
       | The EU is on a roll today with some really drastic changes in
       | such a short span.
        
         | easytiger wrote:
         | what were the others?
        
           | anshumankmr wrote:
           | Apparently banning Google Analytics (though it seems like
           | keeping data in the US was the problem, not the analytics
           | itself)
        
             | jeroenhd wrote:
             | That wasn't a change, it was already illegal. Back in 2020
             | the data exchange with the US was considered illegal, and
             | only recently did a judge speak out against Google
             | Analytics specifically.
             | 
             | This ban also wasn't even by "the EU", it was an Austrian
             | judge following existing EU regulation to rule on a court
             | case.
        
       | [deleted]
        
       | Chris2048 wrote:
       | Will this lead to non-US/ICANN managed .com/.net etc TLDs? Or a
       | new TLDs?
        
         | mjepronk wrote:
         | It's a DNS resolver, not an authoritative DNS server. So it's
         | similiar to Google's 8.8.8.8, Cloudflare's DNS resolver, or the
         | DNS resolver that is provided to you by your ISP.
        
           | denton-scratch wrote:
           | Or like the Unbound recursive resolver that I run here.
           | Unless there are moves to _mandate_ the use of the EU
           | resolver network, then there 's nothing to freak out about.
        
         | NKosmatos wrote:
         | Nope, what is described is addition of new DNS servers for EU
         | users with some extra things on top for monitoring and premium
         | services. It's not the intention to create a new
         | parallel/separate internet where new TLDs will exist. Good move
         | from network point of view, good for most users but with a few
         | caveats for more experienced users ;-)
        
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