[HN Gopher] How tumblr became popular for being obsolete
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       How tumblr became popular for being obsolete
        
       Author : ingve
       Score  : 113 points
       Date   : 2022-01-16 10:12 UTC (12 hours ago)
        
 (HTM) web link (www.newyorker.com)
 (TXT) w3m dump (www.newyorker.com)
        
       | anyfactor wrote:
       | I know this is a stupid thing but I firmly believe that Tumblr
       | imposing content filter ruined Reddit and to some extent Twitter.
       | The distraught tumblr userbase had a unifying demographic
       | characteristics that wasn't on par with the culture of
       | (old.)Reddit. When this group left reddit was very quick to
       | embrace them and alienated a large parts of it userbase. Reddit
       | created an internal clash by attempting to merge these polarizing
       | groups and trying their best to be marketable at the same time.
       | 
       | It is a very difficult to put into words but I think having a
       | tribe of userbase is far better for a social media than to appeal
       | to majority.
       | 
       | I think instagram and tiktok as social media still provides a
       | good experience for their longterm userbase compared to social
       | media that appeals to majority like twitter, facebook and reddit.
        
         | Terretta wrote:
         | Agree there was a shift, and while it hadn't occurred to me
         | before, your timing makes sense.
         | 
         | Reddit used to be that place where you had definitely _"read
         | it"_ first.
         | 
         | Now, to your point, most subs that bubble via algo to all and
         | popular are tumblogs (infinite image/meme scrollers), and posts
         | come after it's already been on IG and Facebook groups.
         | 
         | I'd chalked this up to IG influence, but Tumblr diaspora makes
         | as much sense, together with your hypothesized shift to pop
         | engagement over niche quality.
         | 
         | Still works that if you dump the subs that show up in all or
         | popular, you can get back to text / long-text niche interests.
         | Most seem to be slowing pace of posts and discussion replies
         | though, so unclear how much longer that will last.
        
           | Traster wrote:
           | Sorry, but I was on reddit atleast since 2008 and it was
           | obvious even then that 80%+ of the redditors hadn't read the
           | articles, the whole reason they were on reddit was to chat to
           | other redditors, not to actually read the article. It's a
           | different story now, where the whole conversation has turned
           | meta though (people arguing obout whether people have or
           | haven't read the article and what the behaviour of redditors
           | says about society in general)
        
         | bckr wrote:
         | > Reddit created an internal clash by attempting to merge these
         | polarizing groups
         | 
         | Isn't segmentation of audiences built in to Reddit in the form
         | of subreddits?
        
           | libraryatnight wrote:
           | That's true, but they sort of converge on pages like All and
           | Popular. I'd never thought of a Tumblr exodus affecting
           | reddit, but I remember the Digg exodus.
        
             | mocheeze wrote:
             | And even before the Digg exodus Reddit was rife with
             | tribalism. I remember all the pro- vs. anti- Ron Paul stuff
             | when he was running in the GOP primary.
        
           | StevePerkins wrote:
           | You might be sharing thirst comments about fetish porn pics.
           | Or you might be discussing tips and techniques for artisanal
           | home cheesemaking. Either way, it feels like Reddit.
           | 
           | Different subreddits have different levels of quality and
           | effort in the average post. But "group" != "audience". The
           | culture trends on Reddit are site-wide, even if the subject
           | matter of each sub varies wildly.
           | 
           | I THINK that what parent commentor is trying to say is that
           | pre-Yahoo-Tumbler, Reddit culture was predominately male
           | libertarian Ron Paul fans... while post-Yahoo-Tumbler, there
           | was an influx of "purple hair" female social leftists. And
           | that Reddit's culture has been somewhat fractured and at war
           | with itself ever since.
           | 
           | I'm not sure that I accept this theory (I think simply has
           | more to do with a continuous influx of newbies, and general
           | youth culture shift over the past 15 years). But I do agree
           | with the result, and the timeline happens to match up neatly.
        
             | bobthepanda wrote:
             | Reddit has always been at war at itself. Subredditdrama
             | didn't magically appear after the Tumblr meltdown.
             | 
             | People talking about reddit degrading reminds me of people
             | talking about when music was the best; it was great when
             | you weren't quite new but weren't quite jaded about it yet.
        
           | lozenge wrote:
           | The quality on the default subreddits kept dropping so they
           | tweaked the front page to bring content from smaller
           | subreddits. Which then dropped in quality &etc.
        
       | zerop wrote:
       | Each Social network is kind of a tribe, that's how they are all
       | different. Tumblr has successfully maintained its own tribe over
       | the years. Same goes with all platforms including HN.
        
       | MrDresden wrote:
       | I've never been a big Tumblr user, having only occasionally found
       | my way there through links and search results.
       | 
       | So I am not someone for whom this matters.
       | 
       | However, I never did like the way it would present other Tumblr
       | _feeds_ that I would click on in the page I was on in this side
       | bar navigation way, rather than just navigating me there. The UI
       | felt all rather convoluted to me.
       | 
       | Anyone know why they have stuck with this pattern in particular?
        
         | pram wrote:
         | The Tumblr UI was schizo. For example clicking an image in the
         | dashboard: Some images would just open in a new tab, some would
         | open in a light box on the dashboard, some would take you to
         | the blog post, some would take you to some weird Imgur-esque
         | display page, and some would just open a completely unrelated
         | link because you could set the href on them separately I
         | guess??
        
       | lordfoom wrote:
       | I recently became aware that my eldest child (13 at time of
       | writing) prefers Tumblr as social media because of its
       | "emptiness"
        
       | csbartus wrote:
       | After 10 years I've stopped checking my Tumblr feed last year.
       | It's nothing new there anymore in the graphic / web design /
       | typography inspiration area. Everybody left, the algorithm is
       | dumb, no more joy.
       | 
       | However I'm grateful for Tumblr. It shaped my design career
       | considerably, and give me joy every day for years in row.
        
         | tkiolp4 wrote:
         | > It's nothing new there anymore in the graphic / web design /
         | typography inspiration area. Everybody left, the algorithm is
         | dumb...
         | 
         | For me, this is a feature.
        
         | cproctor wrote:
         | Where do you go now for "graphic / web design / typography"?
        
           | nvrspyx wrote:
           | Dribbble is a pretty popular one. There's also ArtStation for
           | art and 3D modeling.
        
           | csbartus wrote:
           | I'm taking a pause and waiting for something new to pop up
        
         | prionassembly wrote:
         | Pinterest is a predator on the web, sucking content and walling
         | itself off, but it's full of good stuff if you enjoy the arts
         | (I've been "into" asemic writing for years) or graphic design.
        
           | nyolfen wrote:
           | parasite is probably a better term
        
             | kristopolous wrote:
             | If I met someone who said they work for Pinterest, the
             | first thought through my mind would be "now don't be
             | violent"
        
       | snthd wrote:
       | What's the closest the fediverse has to tumblr?
        
         | Nemo_bis wrote:
         | Wordpress.com (with ActivityPub)? :)
        
       | galfarragem wrote:
       | Tumblr is completely underrated.
       | 
       | I'm using Tumblr for almost a decade and I never found any other
       | place as convenient or as cheap (free and without ads) to have a
       | blog. It's dead easy to start one, to post or to make a custom
       | theme (if you feel like). You can even use your domain for free
       | and you even have "kind of" a social network.
       | 
       | I know that keeping a "fun" blog is not fashionable anymore but
       | Tumblr is really good at it.
        
         | noaheverett wrote:
         | I too wish there were more "fun" blogs out there, however I do
         | see a good amount of dev's who keep a fun/techy blog. There
         | have been a handful of services over the last 2 decades that
         | made it quick and easy to spin up a blog (geocities, blogger,
         | medium etc) but Tumblr had the cool factor (plus the social
         | network behind it) and really nailed the posting experience I
         | think -- Tumblr was the best chance at a Twitter competitor
         | back in the 2009'ish era IMO.
         | 
         | My own project Glue[1] is taking a stab at this segment so I
         | have vested interest in this space. Trying to marry all the
         | various content types into a single UI experience has been a
         | fun challenge (short text, audio, quotes, code snippets,
         | blogs).
         | 
         | [1] https://glue.im/noah
        
         | henrikschroder wrote:
         | Six years ago I was looking for a place to host a simple
         | "archive" of blog posts with embedded media, and Tumblr was the
         | easiest and most flexible by far, and the audience was already
         | there in the form of the fandom for a couple of very specific
         | TV shows.
         | 
         | A lot of the fandom exists on Tumblr and Instagram and Twitter
         | as well, but on the latter two, you can't have any permanence.
         | It's all about the ever scrolling feed, and it's about getting
         | on people's feeds again and again and again with new posts, new
         | content all the time. And the type of content you can post
         | there is extremely limited.
         | 
         | Tumblr allows this style as well, and a lot of users engage in
         | it. But it _also_ allows for being an archive, a curated
         | collection of long-form posts about a subject, tagged and
         | organized and easily browsable, no matter how long ago the
         | posts were made.
         | 
         | I do not regret choosing Tumblr six years ago, and people keep
         | discovering my stuff, keep liking it, keep reblogging it, which
         | shows it was the right show.
         | 
         | Let's hope Verizon doesn't fuck it up.
        
           | smcnally wrote:
           | > Let's hope Verizon doesn't fuck it up.
           | 
           | The owner is now Automattic
           | 
           | https://www.theverge.com/2019/8/14/20804894/tumblr-
           | acquisiti...
        
             | henrikschroder wrote:
             | Right, I had completely forgotten about that!
        
         | ironmagma wrote:
         | I always found it weird that people call Tumblrs blogs. A post
         | on your blog there is more like a tweet; people can pile on,
         | amplify it beyond what your intended audience could have
         | possibly been. This can be great or disastrous. It's yet
         | another social network -- hardly resembles a blog at all.
        
           | ravi-delia wrote:
           | It's a lot more like blogs than it is like twitter, but
           | overall it's almost closest to MySpace. I think if you wanted
           | to write long form content on a social media platform, there
           | isn't really a better pick.
        
           | whatshisface wrote:
           | > _A post on your blog there is more like a tweet; people can
           | pile on, amplify it beyond what your intended audience could
           | have possibly been._
           | 
           | People could do that with blogs.
        
             | ironmagma wrote:
             | Could, but the platform doesn't facilitate it. A difference
             | in ease is a difference in kind.
        
           | galfarragem wrote:
           | It's a blog (e.g. https://archimodels.tumblr.com). The main
           | diference is that your posts appear on followers feeds also.
        
             | echelon wrote:
             | I remember Tumbler lacking actual dates and timestamps for
             | the longest time. It was also sometimes difficult to know
             | the provenance of the things you were reading, especially
             | after nested reblogs and comment chains.
             | 
             | These are two really odd design decisions for blogs and
             | trying to read content written by experts.
        
           | pndy wrote:
           | Blog is a generic term that most people is familiar with but
           | the more accurate description for both tumblr and twitter
           | (hell, even mastodon) is microblog - due to small, short form
           | of the posts
        
         | systemvoltage wrote:
         | Tumblr marketing is awesome:
         | 
         | > Tumblr is so easy to use that it's hard to explain.
         | 
         | > We made it really, really simple for people to make a blog
         | and put whatever they want on it. Stories, photos, GIFs, TV
         | shows, links, quips, dumb jokes, smart jokes, Spotify tracks,
         | mp3s, videos, fashion, art, deep stuff. Tumblr is 541 million
         | different blogs, filled with literally whatever.
        
       | skupig wrote:
       | This article misses (intentionally?) the 3rd important point that
       | keeps me on there: the absence of big money. There's minimal
       | advertising, no astroturfing, no sponsorships, no paid features.
       | It is pretty much the last of its kind in that regard.
       | 
       | Someone is clearly making a push to capitalize on it, and I'm not
       | looking forward to adding it to the endlessly growing list of
       | beautiful things that rich businessmen have destroyed.
        
         | smoe wrote:
         | Are.na, although very niche (which I think is a feature), looks
         | very interesting in this regard. Financed trough paid accounts
         | instead of selling user data/ads and being driven by chasing
         | big investor money. It also seems to have a very open api for
         | people to build things upon.
         | 
         | https://are.na
         | 
         | From Wikipedia:
         | 
         |  _Are.na is an online social networking community and creative
         | research platform [...] Are.na was built as a successor to
         | hypertext projects like Ted Nelson 's Xanadu, and as an ad-free
         | alternative to social networks like Facebook, forgoing "likes,"
         | "favorites," or "shares" in its design. Are.na allows users to
         | compile uploaded and web-clipped "blocks" into different
         | "channels," [...]_
        
           | dylan604 wrote:
           | > _forgoing "likes," "favorites," or "shares" in its design_
           | 
           | I have a feeling that is going to alienate mass populace
           | users.
        
             | nvr219 wrote:
             | Good
        
             | Zak wrote:
             | If I could make one change to Facebook, it would be to
             | eliminate the share button. I wouldn't make it impossible
             | for people to copy and paste links to third-party content,
             | but there would be no front-and-center UI for it.
             | 
             | The main thing I want from that sort of social media is to
             | see original content from people that I know. I don't want
             | to see the _best_ cat video; I want to see _my friend 's_
             | cat video.
        
             | mattgreenrocks wrote:
             | This is a feature. Literally every other social site falls
             | over itself to show meaningless metrics.
        
             | smoe wrote:
             | Which I think is great. Those features just incentivises
             | people to constantly scream for attention and marketing
             | agencies to try to create viral campaigns.
             | 
             | There are already plenty products aimed at the mass
             | populace, I would love to see again more communities built
             | for the niches. Not just in terms of topics (subreddits et
             | al), but functionality and interactions. Because honestly I
             | came to the conclusion that communities only work if they
             | stay relatively small and focused. I haven't used Are.na
             | enough to say anything about their community specifically,
             | but their approach resonates strongly with me.
        
           | mostlysimilar wrote:
           | I'm drawn to the idea and the ethos, but wow that UI is hard
           | to look at.
        
             | smoe wrote:
             | I don't like the homepage much, especially since I did
             | absolutely not understand what this is supposed to be
             | about.
             | 
             | The application part itself I quite like. Some of the color
             | contrasts are way to low and style over substance (my first
             | impression was, that it must have been designed by a Swiss
             | Architect), but what I do like a lot is, just how little
             | noise there is.
        
             | slickdork wrote:
             | Homepage is definitely a mess on ultrawide/firefox.
        
         | password1 wrote:
         | But isn't Tumblr userbase mainly teens and their subcultures?
         | What's the value of not having ads, sponsor and astroturfing,
         | if there's not relevant or interesting community to join to
         | begin with?
        
           | wyre wrote:
           | Just because a platform is not relevant or interesting to you
           | or your circles doesn't mean it has no value to others. Lots
           | of people got a lot of value out of using Tumblr. When
           | Facebook was limited to people you know in real life, Tumblr
           | allowed for anonymity and making friends with people with
           | similar experiences.
        
           | drdeca wrote:
           | "All tumblr users are either too young for tumblr or too old
           | for tumblr" - "tumblr teen" argumate (argumate is certainly
           | not a teenager (I think he is probably like, almost 40?) but
           | some news article referred to him as such at one point)
           | 
           | I wouldn't say there's nothing interesting on tumblr.
           | 
           | Like, there's nostalgebraist's writing on machine learning,
           | Also other people posting some math content.
           | 
           | It is a social blogging site. People write blogs there.
        
             | wyre wrote:
             | Tumblr teens are now aged around 25-35, I bet.
        
               | hippie_queen wrote:
               | Can confirm as a Tumblr teen
        
             | beckingz wrote:
             | Frank - the autoresponder gpt-3 bot is fantastic.
        
         | digisign wrote:
         | A chronological feed sounds enticing.
        
         | egman_ekki wrote:
         | There's a subscription feature that's in the works.
         | https://www.theverge.com/2021/9/21/22684089/tumblr-post-plus...
        
         | Tenoke wrote:
         | They cite someone saying "There aren't influencers on Tumblr
         | the way there are on Instagram and TikTok, and the experience
         | for all users might be more pleasant as a result. " they just
         | don't dig further into it.
        
       | theklr wrote:
       | Kinda is amazing outside the pr0n kerfuffle, in essence it's
       | remained itself. A shame that advertising broke its popularity
       | but glad to see that it's finally under ownership that isn't
       | trying to put it against X.
        
       | null_object wrote:
       | I started following some Tumblr blogs just last week after a 2 or
       | 3 year hiatus. I fell in love again with not having to log-in to
       | see the content, or being blocked after simply scrolling through
       | a few user-provided thumbnails.
       | 
       | Articles like this make me worried some ass-hat is soon gonna
       | monetize this newly quiet corner of the internet, and make it
       | shit like everything else.
        
       | sva_ wrote:
       | I've recently been thinking that Twitter has absorbed much of the
       | former Tumblr userbase.
        
       | thejohnconway wrote:
       | I left when the content filter removed some of my (completely
       | non-pornographic) artworks. The article notes that the content
       | filter is still in place, and still aggressive. I can't see using
       | it as a blogging platform when such capricious content removal is
       | still in place.
       | 
       | I would go back if they announced a change in that area.
        
         | tzfld wrote:
         | That content filter once gone bad but didn't saw any wrongly
         | marked post in the last few years. And I use tumblr on a daily
         | basis.
        
         | egman_ekki wrote:
         | Wasn't that filter put into place (at least to some extent)
         | because Apple pulled them from the Appstore?
        
           | zimpenfish wrote:
           | They were apparently already working on the adult content ban
           | 6 months before CSAM caused them to get pulled from the app
           | store - it just accelerated the implementation timeline.
        
             | egman_ekki wrote:
             | Thanks for the correction. I apparently wrongly assumed it
             | was connected.
        
           | null_object wrote:
           | This is like HN bingo - how many posts before someone blames
           | Apple for something totally unconnected.
           | 
           | Yesterday a poster blamed them somehow for Tesla leaving a
           | brake pad off a car..
        
             | nisa wrote:
             | But it's true: https://web.archive.org/web/20190105145403/h
             | ttps://tumblr.ze...
        
               | zimpenfish wrote:
               | That's Tumblr pointing out that they were removed from
               | the app store because of CSAM - not general adult
               | content. And once they blocked that CSAM, they were back.
        
               | nisa wrote:
               | thanks for the clarification.
        
               | kyledrake wrote:
               | But that's kind of the problem here. Apple removed an
               | entire platform for what I'm assuming was a few CP
               | reports, and Tumblr reacted by adding an extremely
               | aggressive "adult content" filter that wiped out a ton of
               | legal content, and triggered a mass exodus from their
               | platform, so they wouldn't get their app permanently
               | removed from the app store and have their business
               | completely destroyed.
               | 
               | This really shouldn't be a surprise to anyone but CP
               | happens from time to time on all large platforms, you get
               | reports and you remove it, it's just a fact of life if
               | you do a lot of third party content hosting. Tumblr
               | doesn't have the means to pre-screen all of the content
               | on their network, so they chose to eliminate all
               | potentially problematic content before it gets published
               | using an aggressive ML porn detector (probably Yahoo's
               | open_nsfw), rather than face Apple's wrath on it. Again,
               | for what was probably a few specific reports on a few
               | tumblr accounts Apple was threatening to (and temporarily
               | did) remove an entire platform from the store that
               | billions of users require to install it.
               | 
               | This is absolutely a consequence of their monopolistic
               | and arbitrary control of their store and their policies
               | that leave no room for error in content moderation. Apple
               | is absolutely altering the nature of the web when they do
               | things like this, and deciding through fear what kind of
               | content is going to be allowed by scaring platforms into
               | adopting a lower floor of controllable risk.
               | 
               | Whether you agree that Apple's infamously closed off
               | bureaucracy should be the content mods or not for any
               | platform that requires use of a phone camera, criticizing
               | them about it is absolutely within the bounds of valid
               | discussion here because they absolutely played a key,
               | major role in a change that wiped out an enormous
               | percentage of Tumblr's users, the vast majority of whom
               | were not violating any laws.
               | 
               | Now I should mention they certainly have the legal right
               | to do so, just as Twitter had the same legal right to ban
               | a Twitter account for a ToS violation, but this feels a
               | lot more concerning to me. It would be like if Apple was
               | telling Twitter to dump an account for _their_ ToS
               | violation or they would remove Twitter from their app
               | store.
        
               | zimpenfish wrote:
               | > Tumblr reacted by adding an extremely aggressive "adult
               | content" filter
               | 
               | Which they were already preparing. It wasn't a reaction
               | to the app store removal - they had been planning it for
               | months and this just prompted a quicker activation.
               | 
               | > so they wouldn't get their app permanently removed from
               | the app store
               | 
               | No. They were going to do this regardless of the app
               | store snafu. You can't blame Apple for _this_ move on
               | Tumblr 's part (but you could possibly blame Apple for
               | perhaps overreacting to "a few reports" although I don't
               | think we've ever got the full story of what went actually
               | on...)
        
               | pram wrote:
               | Tumblr was already making people mark their blog NSFW and
               | started filtering posts and tags long before the App
               | Store thing. They had been "belling the cat" in
               | preparation for an eventual ban.
        
               | Macha wrote:
               | How much effort is it to scan for porn/have reviewers
               | informed all porn is banned?
               | 
               | Vs.
               | 
               | How effort is it to allow porn but have some algorithm or
               | reviewers determine what is porn but is allowed vs what
               | is CSAM? Obviously images of abuse of a 10 year old are
               | clear, but much more content than that is disallowed, yet
               | you're going to get a lot of shit for taking down self-
               | taken images of that young looking 20 year old when your
               | policy allows porn, and if you overcorrect the other
               | direction you'll get even more shit for not taking down
               | images of that older looking 16 year old.
        
             | JaimeThompson wrote:
             | Who are they supposed to blame, Tesla?
        
             | sva_ wrote:
             | I feel like the real HN bingo is Apple fanboys coming out
             | of nowhere to defend Apple about some arbitrary thing.
             | 
             | Well, perhaps they're mutually dependent.
        
             | ravi-delia wrote:
             | Just a few days ago it became clear that a large number of
             | tags were shadowbanned only on Apple devices.
        
           | thejohnconway wrote:
           | I don't remember the sequence of events very well, but my
           | memory is that the real slide started when it was acquired by
           | Verizon. Whatever the exact reasons were, it was still a
           | series of bad decisions, because it led from Tumblr being
           | huge to being practically irrelevant.
        
             | Macha wrote:
             | Yahoo were perfectly capable of neglecting Tumblr or
             | spending more time asking "What can Tumblr do for Yahoo?"
             | prior to Verizon's oversight also. You can see acquisitions
             | like Flickr or del.icio.us which shared Tumblr's fate, just
             | earlier.
        
         | megapoliss wrote:
         | You are right - platform with censorship doesn't make any
         | sense. They should provide flexible filters instead, so you
         | won't get content that you don't want.
        
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