[HN Gopher] Who Uses To-Do Lists?
___________________________________________________________________
Who Uses To-Do Lists?
Author : akprasad
Score : 93 points
Date : 2022-01-15 18:00 UTC (5 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (arunkprasad.com)
(TXT) w3m dump (arunkprasad.com)
| pleb_nz wrote:
| I think Todo lists come in many forms. Im surrounded by them in
| my daily life without even realizing they are Todo lists. Off the
| top of my head - Email - Jira - Messaging Comms - Notepads -
| Todoist - notes - text editor
| egberts1 wrote:
| ToDo lists are also spread on several machines' `/root/TODO` as
| well as the main login workstation's `$HOME/TODO`.
|
| Then there is this wonderful "all-platform" Joplin note app
| hooked to my self-hosted ownCloud (via NextCloud option): it's so
| awesome to access them however which device you use.
| arendtio wrote:
| Todo lists are tools, like a hammer. Hammers can be used to end
| life, but also to build houses. The tool is rarely good or bad in
| itself, but either suitable or unsuitable to do a certain job.
|
| In my experience, todo lists are suitable for keeping you focused
| on a set of tasks. However, they seem not so good are being a
| complete system of task scheduling. Over time they often fill up
| and have no clearly defined mechanism of clearing not-so-
| relevant-anymore tasks.
|
| Therefore, I create a new todo list every day. First, I write
| down what I think, that I will get done today. Second I take a
| look at yesterdays list and decide for every open task if I will
| get it done today or if it should go to the backlog or graveyard.
| As the final step I look at the backlog, but mostly decide to
| just go with the list I already have.
|
| This procedure helps me to focus and get daily tasks done. What
| it doesn't support is prioritization. To accomplish that I tend
| to reflect every few weeks on what I should be doing more and
| what I should be doing less and changing my _calendar_
| accordingly.
|
| So I use todo lists primarily for daily focus, instead of
| expecting them to solve hard priority issues.
| politelemon wrote:
| MS TODO has been a decent entry in this space in terms of
| productivity at work where MS 365 is in use. Flagging an email
| gets it to appear in Todo and it has a useful "My Day" feature
| with suggestions for the day.
|
| It felt like a natural next step after using emails as a Todo
| list as the post mentions.
| anthomtb wrote:
| Everyone uses them. The only real difference is the medium. Hand
| written, electronic or your on-board biological memory system
| (not recommended).
| Loic wrote:
| Maybe because I am older, I am also creating check lists. I have
| check lists for a lot of _repeated activities_ in my life. For
| example: - I go skiing every week, I have one
| day, one evening, one week ski check lists for my
| equipment. - Outdoor activities. - Planning of my
| work day.
|
| They are not the traditional TODO lists (I am also actively using
| these lists too) but they really help me getting things done by
| reducing the cognitive load of my regular activities. If one day
| a list _fails me_ , then I update it for the next time.
| syngrog66 wrote:
| I do. They serve me, not master me. Ad hoc. Some last a long
| time, some are transient. Often helpful if I momentarily
| accumulate a lot of TODOs, or brainstorming some, and the act of
| typing them out, and seeing on screen, helps me remember them and
| prioritize.
|
| Key is make it more of a win than lose. Thus I bias to plain
| text. Either in a notepad type app on mobile, or in vim on Mac or
| Linux. Sometimes in a plain paper notebook with a ballpoint ink
| pen -- helpful if I want to sketch out some UI mockup, or, a
| rough 1st stab at a diagram-amenable concept, like software
| architecture.
|
| I feel the problem space has been fairly solved for decades if
| not centuries. But use what works best for you.
| akprasad wrote:
| OP here. I think this is completely correct. And I ended up
| using the same system as you -- plain text in Vim. For me, it's
| super low-friction and I see it all the time, so it's easy to
| make it habitual.
| Izkata wrote:
| I have two levels of to-do lists, and it's worked out pretty well
| for me. They're strictly for work though, I don't usually use
| them for my personal life:
|
| Every morning I open an empty file in vim and create a list of
| things I intend to do that day. It's created completely from
| scratch without bringing anything over from the previous day, so
| this list doesn't end up growing forever with things I didn't get
| to, specifically to avoid that mental weight of "I have too much
| going on". I also remove them from the file as they're completed,
| instead of any sort of "mark as done", so it visibly gets smaller
| over the day and triggers an "I'm alllllmost done, let's finish
| these last things quickly" mindset instead of procrastinating as
| is easy when seeing a large list of things to do.
|
| Then I use taskwarrior for anything I expect to last more than a
| day. I rely on its "urgency" column for prioritization, which I
| tweaked only once or twice in the 7 or so years I've been using
| it (mainly so team projects have increased urgency and special
| tags like "Hold" have it decreased). I rarely look at this one
| except when adding to it or when making the morning list, so I'll
| often come back to it and find a couple tasks I'd finished like a
| week or more ago and then spend a bit of time cleaning it up. So
| even though it can get big, I don't end up spending a lot of time
| optimizing it.
| 300bps wrote:
| I think your method has worked well for me. I use Microsoft
| ToDo as a tool for it. It has a My Day list that automatically
| clears itself each day (by copying to Tasks). You can then re-
| add to your My Day list as needed.
| 0xCMP wrote:
| My personal favorite is Cal Newport's idea of keeping a list of
| things you need todo and time blocking them into whatever
| schedule you have.
|
| e.g. keep a "todo" list of some kind (or write down everything
| you remember) and block off specific time to work on each thing.
| This 1) forces you to pick some things to prioritize 2) gives you
| time to make progress on them 3) doesn't drop the ball on if that
| thing was "done" because it's still on the other list.
|
| During the day you just focus on your calendar and what is next.
|
| The biggest way todo lists have never worked for me is they make
| everything feel overwhelming. This method helps force me to pick
| and make progress. I don't always follow it closely because at
| the end of the day it's just a way to trick your self to
| prioritize given how much time you have in the day.
| coutego wrote:
| Every (long term) successful person I have met used todo lists.
|
| Having a system to do things is like having good form when
| playing and instrument (or some sport). You can get quite far
| without getting the basics right, but then you hit a limit you
| can't get past it without fundamentally changing things. You can
| even get injured very easily (literally in sports, burnt out on a
| desk / management job) or you can just slowly become dead wood
| over time.
|
| Changing how to do the fundamentals is more and more difficult
| with experience and age. Once you hit a plateau (or you are
| already overwhelmed and incapable of coping with things) most
| people will not be able to start re-learning to do things from
| scratch neither accept the hit on their productivity for a
| significant amount of time until they manage to do things on top
| of the new system.
|
| My advice to those of you who are still young: do count on your
| immense energy and raw (intelectual) brute force if/as needed but
| please dedicate a conscious amount of time to deliberately
| develop a system which is sustainable and can grow with you as
| needed. You will need to rely on the expertise of others who have
| already gone very far, in the same way you need to trust your
| tennis trainer in how to use the racquet. You won't find out by
| yourself whether you are holding it wrong until you have already
| hurt yourself. So go and find some system like Getting Things
| Done or similar, learn it, use it and practice, practice and
| practice. If you look for role models just search for those
| people who are very productive in an apparently effortless and
| natural way. Those are the ones to learn from.
| [deleted]
| charles_f wrote:
| I like how the counterpoints for to-do lists are things that can
| be fixed by process. Reviewing list often, closing things you
| won't do, grouping by importance, categorizing by context, etc.
|
| The one recurring alternative presented to to-dos seems to be
| scheduling (ironic given that a counter argument of to-do lists
| is that its hard to estimate time). Schedule rather than to-do
| seems applicable to such a narrow band of people whose life is
| deterministic. The overhead of rescheduling everything that I
| can't do when the alert pops would be ridiculous.
|
| I understand that they might not work for some, they do just fine
| for me.
| jacquesm wrote:
| I have the simplest and most basic todo list that I could make
| without using any external tools except for the ones that I
| already use: I send myself an email with the header 'TODO' and
| reply to it whenever something changes. It also serves as a
| record when stuff gets removed (the mail following the one where
| it was last present was when it was done), though that is rarely
| used. For repetitive items (tax filings, for instance) I change
| the 'due' date.
|
| Simple, easy, very flexible.
| [deleted]
| creakingstairs wrote:
| I've tried to use to do lists and it has never worked for me. The
| necessary upkeep to keep it up to date annoyed me the most.
|
| Recently, however, I've come to realise the value of having a
| well-groomed todo list, with tasks broken down and prioritised.
| E.g. not "work on my game" but rather "Find 10 inspirations for
| the games art direction (20m)".
|
| This gets rid of any ambiguities I have around the task, which
| has been a friction large enough for me to procrastinate.
| stathibus wrote:
| Let's consider the alternatives to to-do lists. They are 1)
| remember everything without writing it down, or 2) rely on being
| reminded about anything important by something or someone else. I
| don't think I've missed any, and it's pretty obvious to me why 1
| and 2 are bad plans... so obvious that I'm confused about why so
| many people blog or write books about the concept.
| JadeNB wrote:
| > 2) rely on being reminded about anything important by
| something or someone else.
|
| Isn't that what a to-do list is--just a reminder of anything
| important by something else?
| omegalulw wrote:
| Downside of to-do lists
|
| 1. You spend too much time optimizing your to-do list. 2. You
| realize you are spending too much time optimizing your to-do
| list and you give up in frustration because you feel like you
| don't get your actual work done.
|
| With a text file, it's a free for all, you don't feel obligated
| to keep it clean, when you have to make a note you just "do
| it".
| stathibus wrote:
| Yes, some people make a hobby out of the lists themselves.
| That's probably not a good idea. The solution is not "stop
| making lists."
| idoh wrote:
| It's just definitional at this point - I'd say that a text
| file counts as a to do list.
| beebeepka wrote:
| I am confused. The assumption here seems to be that people
| are using to-do lists to... schedule their lives or
| something? Otherwise what you said makes zero sense to me.
|
| Either way, I cannot relate at all
| robga wrote:
| I don't use hand written or electronic lists or reminder
| systems. You might say I use a biological memory system but I
| don't see it in any way as a list. I'm aware that I have tasks,
| and they have deadlines, priorities, effort levels,
| complexities, dependencies, relationships, and so forth. But it
| is so alien to me to put them in an app or on paper. I've
| tried, since others swear by it. But it makes as much sense to
| me as writing down the words I know so that I can later use
| them in the right order at the right times. It's a huge
| reduction in dimensionality for no purpose.
|
| The discourse is often that there are two groups 1. those that
| use todo lists and are more productive than if they didn't 2.
| those that don't use todo lists but could be more productive if
| they did
|
| I genuinely feel there is a third group, those that do not use
| todo lists and would not be any more productive if they did. I
| don't avoid them, I've tried them with their doctrines because
| they were recommended by others. Didn't add anything at all. I
| have no 'todo pain points', rarely if ever feel I've forgotten
| something or would have been aided with a 'list'. I have a good
| memory/recall capacity but not especially good so it is not
| that.
|
| I do create 'lists' to add memory, but these are along the
| lines of the 40 items of grocery to buy, or clicking 'add to
| list' on Netflix. Not 'todo' lists as such.
|
| I'm interested if anyone else feels similar.
| akprasad wrote:
| If you're sincerely confused, here are some reasons people
| avoid them:
|
| - https://blog.codinghorror.com/todont/
|
| - https://hbr.org/2012/01/to-do-lists-dont-work
|
| - https://blog.frantic.im/all/todo-apps-are-meant-for-robots/
|
| I also saw a recent HN comment that todo lists are basically
| suitable only for low-level ICs and that the truly successful
| don't use them. I wondered if that was really true and, well,
| here we are.
|
| [edit]: I think there's also an issue that people can't self-
| regulate very well, so when they fail, they blame whatever
| system they use. So I wanted a clear signpost I could point to
| make it utterly clear that successful people do use these
| things (and, therefore, that any misgivings have other roots).
| yeetaccount4 wrote:
| A lot of the criticisms I'm seeing here are how you approach
| your todo list. If you look at it as a script for your whole
| life of course it's going to fail, you'll spend more time
| setting it up and consulting it than doing anything with it,
| and it'll quickly get swamped with irrelevant details. If you
| use it as a 'living document' that jogs your memory for what
| needs to get done it's going to work out better. Often times
| just putting something on paper helps organize your thoughts
| around something and commit it to memory.
| amiircoal wrote:
| These common reasons listed in these types of articles do not
| support the conclusion that todo lists don't work.
|
| They are a list of some common challenges when working with
| todo lists. But what working method doesn't have challenges?
|
| I could compose a list of various challenges of working from
| home. It does not mean working from home, "doesn't work".
| akprasad wrote:
| I completely agree! And I myself use a to-do list. I
| mention these just to illustrate why some might disagree
| that to-do lists are obvious.
| jnurmine wrote:
| Everyone has their own way to be effective and productive, my
| opinion follows.
|
| TODO-lists are useful when using them for what they are good
| for:
|
| 1. mini-planning the upcoming work,
|
| 2. tracking what you've done (the ticked boxes), and
|
| 3. tracking what needs to be done to complete the main task
| (the unticked boxes).
|
| Putting this information into the calendar? No, totally wrong
| place. Using some app? Clumsy and annoying and easy to get
| distracted... but sure, if it works for you.
|
| I'd say just use a text file with whatever format is OK for
| you. Or pen + paper.
|
| I have TODO-lists with tasks with a time-span of a few weeks
| to many-a-day subtasks that I plan ahead of time so I know
| what to do next.
|
| In my opinion, that's the important part: knowing what to do
| next.
|
| If you don't know what to do next, you have to stop to figure
| this out. Hence the TODO-lists.
|
| Besides, for me, this switching of mode from executing to
| planning/analyzing breaks the flow of the task I was doing. I
| have to go into another kind of mind-state. So I try to plan
| ahead and then just execute, it's easier and more fun to just
| keep the flow going for a longer time.
|
| Usually my subtask planning for things I'm familiar with is
| more tactical and I just throw it in as I go (I'm used to
| this now), but for unfamiliar things I have to stop and
| analyze things up front. Of course situations change and then
| I just go back and modify the tasks and plans. But at some
| point, a clear path forward emerges. Then I take it.
| a_shovel wrote:
| _Wow_ , the first article is just awful.
|
| He's not even saying that to-do lists _don 't help._ He's
| saying that if they _do_ help you, _you 're broken._
|
| Congratulations on having never forgotten something
| important, I guess? I apologize for being a mere mortal who
| gets distracted and forgets things sometimes.
| jrs235 wrote:
| Problem is, author likely hand waves your concern away. If
| it was truly that important you wouldn't have forgotten it.
| :vomit:
| low_tech_love wrote:
| It's a part of the "everything you do must be awesome"
| movement. They forget that most people have a job and a
| personal life to take care of. Ticking items in a todo list
| is perfectly fine. Also I had a feeling their main argument
| is that they're getting overwhelmed by the list itself. I
| guess it can be a problem, but the solution is to learn to
| let your list go sometimes. You must re-assess it
| regularly.
| astrobe_ wrote:
| I think the articles you link are mistaken and that OP is
| correct. This is quote from one of them says it all: "I've
| tried to maintain to-do lists at various points in my life."
|
| Of course don't do that. Todolists are there to help you
| remember things, not to be "maintained" or to provide you
| with a sense of "achievement" or whatnot. They are basically
| the same thing as a shopping list. Nothing more, nothing
| less.
|
| The first step to actually use a todolist is not to use fancy
| Todolist apps. Just use Notepad or whatever simple text
| editor that can do cut/paste.
| low_tech_love wrote:
| Yes, and learn to let the list go sometimes. Re-assess it,
| toss it away and make another one, etc. It's much better to
| consciously ignore/forget about some tasks (because they
| have become unimportant) than to unwillingly forget
| something important.
| akprasad wrote:
| I completely agree (I'm the post author). I found a simple
| text file works well for me. I think what's most important
| is that I can get in the habit of using it every day. Most
| else is just window-dressing.
| pydry wrote:
| Is it obvious? I forget many things but the rarely ever the
| most urgent/important tasks i have to do right now.
|
| I need a calendar and checklists for sure but when i write to
| do lists they inevitably end up being things i'd never forget
| mixed in with a clutter of tasks that were never really
| important enough to get around to doing.
| 8note wrote:
| I have a notebook; sometimes it gets a to-do list so i can forget
| about things I have to do, sometimes it's a design sketchbook,
| and sometimes is for doing a bit of math.
|
| That some rich or smart people have/had Todo lists sounds like
| survivorship bias
| wolverine876 wrote:
| Two tips:
|
| A major cost for long lists (which is most honest todo lists) is
| reviewing the items to see what needs doing and reprioritizing
| today. It's highly distracting (thinking about lots of things you
| aren't going to address today), draining, and highly inefficient
| (again, you spend time and energy for nothing - you aren't going
| to act on most items).
|
| 1. Use a hierarchical todo list, an outline, essentially. Then
| you can skip entire sections ('paint garage' - not this week!).
|
| 2. For each entry, add a 'review-by' date. It means that you can
| forget about the entry until that date. Set the dates
| realistically - you have only so much time and energy, so don't
| bother dating the tasks before you realistially might have time
| for them (e.g., after the big project). To review your list, just
| sort by the review-by date and read the items dated today. If you
| do it realistically, that shouldn't be much more than what's
| possible today, and you can safely and comfortably forget the
| rest, knowing they won't slip through the cracks.
| lanstin wrote:
| Org mode -- you can expand and collapse with 1 key stroke
| plater wrote:
| An alternative to using Emacs is EasyOrg [1] which makes org
| mode a dash simpler to use and with a useful agenda and
| calendar view. Not supporting full org mode, but plenty of
| power for Todo list and project planning.
|
| [1] https://easyorgmode.com
| omarhaneef wrote:
| As the joke goes about capitalism: to-do lists are the worst form
| of productivity organization but for any other.
| mrehler wrote:
| I direct five bands across 8 grades and deal with a lot of events
| off-site. I've got parent contacts to make about logistics,
| supplies to manage for the band, instruments to help students
| fixed, resources for helping students I want to make...
|
| Many, many band directors don't use to-do systems, but I don't
| know how (nothing about the number of bands I have is necessarily
| uncommon). OmniFocus and an overly complicated system of several
| note apps make me able to reference the information I need at any
| given moment on whatever device is in my hand, and keeps me on
| top of what I need to do.
| maerF0x0 wrote:
| I've found todo lists useful for breaking down complex tasks and
| serving as an anxiety sink for "I'm going to forget something" or
| to get it off my mind while I'm laying in bed.
|
| eg: Moving house, I generally list out the things I think I need
| to do, and as sub bullets break down those if they have
| actionable single items. It also helps me when I have time,
| motivation, but uncertainty what to do next -- I can just grab
| any item in that list and know it's moving me marginally closer
| to the goal.
| Lorin wrote:
| I actively use my grocery shopping list, every other list is just
| a form of note taking I revisit once in a blue moon.
| true_maybe wrote:
| If you can't create the checklist, you don't know the
| deliverable.
| adrianmonk wrote:
| I do something a little odd with daily to-do lists: I make them
| nearly exhaustive.
|
| Everything I'm planning to do that day goes on the list. Even if
| it's low-priority or non-urgent. Even obvious stuff that's part
| of my routine like "take a shower" or "eat lunch". And leisure
| stuff like "watch football game". If I really intend to do it
| today, it gets included.
|
| One benefit is it helps me avoid being over-optimistic about how
| much time I have. If only certain select items are written down,
| it's too easy to look at it and get a false idea that I don't
| have that much to do.
|
| The other benefit is I find it easier to think about. If some
| items are implicitly going to happen and others are written down,
| then working with the list is a process of trying to
| simultaneously read some things and remember others. It just
| works better if I see everything all together in one place.
| moonchrome wrote:
| Is email really comparable ? The todo examples quoted were self
| assigned tasks, emails are usually things you need to do for
| other people. I can get on board with the email task management,
| creating personal to-do lists is just not my style.
| akprasad wrote:
| OP here. When I compare email to, for example, being an IC and
| using JIRA/Trello, there seems to be a natural analogy in that
| there's an inbox of items you have to respond to.
|
| And more power to you for knowing what works for you and what
| doesn't. I found that to-do lists work for me, and I'm glad you
| know what works for you.
| pengaru wrote:
| TODO lists are the cornerstone of my ability to get practically
| any task that can't be done immediately and finished today done
| at some point.
|
| But it's important to ensure those lists are kept somewhere
| visible at the start of the day. Also constant updating,
| rewriting, and reprioritizing I find are key to their
| effectiveness.
| penjelly wrote:
| agree, also similar username
| monkeydust wrote:
| Stopped a long time ago. Rely on memory or if bigger and more
| time critical I stick in my diary.
| arka2147483647 wrote:
| For those of us who use to-do lists, where do you keep them?
|
| My experiences:
|
| - Colornote, the best i have found. You can have a to-do list
| without any distraction. Click and it's crossed over, click again
| and its unchecked again. Only android, no sync, both are
| problems.
|
| - Todoist, has some misguided notion that i want my to-do to have
| anything to do with a calendar. When you open the app, fist task
| is always to close the calendar, and go to the todo list. Will
| either delete or reorder checked tasks, annoying. Will auto-
| calendar items if you write something like "Something today",
| ARGGHH. But, it will work anywhere, and sync everything across
| devices, so my current choice.
| 8note wrote:
| On paper, with a pencil.
|
| I've got a notebook that fits in my back pocket
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| In my document management system. I've built a bastardized
| gemtext/orgmode parser because other people's software and
| servers keeps updating and breaking and I want to be able to
| access and update it from any device or location.
|
| https://memex.marginalia.nu/todo/todo.gmi
|
| https://memex.marginalia.nu/todo/done.gmi
| akprasad wrote:
| OP here. Here were my needs:
|
| - I need to get into the habit of using it every day.
|
| - I need to _like_ using it. For me, a lack of friction is
| vital.
|
| - I need something flexible enough for me to add extra detail
| if I need it (e.g. notes) or change my workflow as my situation
| changes.
|
| I found that a plain text file works very well for me. I always
| have my terminal open, editing a file is quick, and I can store
| notes with tasks easily. I don't need my list to look beautiful
| -- I just need to be able to pull it up no matter where I am.
|
| Specifically, I'm using the system Jeff Huang describes here:
| https://jeffhuang.com/productivity_text_file/
|
| [edit]: And going up one step, there's the meta-issue that
| there are, what, hundreds of to-do apps to choose from?
| Frankly, I found myself paralyzed by options.
| kossTKR wrote:
| Agree with the article - the take presented in the first articles
| are a joke right?
|
| They remind of the mind numbingly arrogant articles about UHNWI's
| that didn't have smartphones from a while back - well duh, they
| didn't because they had several servants that fixed their
| calendar, printed things, arranged meetings etc.
|
| Same with the "no tech" Silicon Valley trend that's an incredible
| privilege not applicable to 99% of regular people.
|
| You need a place to mentally park various things you need to do,
| ie. a todo list in todays complicated and advanced society - pay
| this bill, buy this thing, call this person etc.
|
| Complexity falls with privilege.
|
| You can't simply remember them unless living a very simple life.
| Maybe some very rich person can have a PA, live in the woods, or
| the hermit geniuses of 200 years ago worked very differently on
| paper and in notebooks, but today a simple todo list is
| absolutely needed unless living alone and with very, very few
| responsibilities.
|
| I don't know anyone, like at all that doesn't have some kind of
| todo list, ranging from a simple unsorted list, to multiple lists
| to post it notes in your apartment.
| Apocryphon wrote:
| There was a good discussion a few months ago about the high
| attrition/ low retention rates of todo apps:
|
| https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28010716
|
| As usual, YMMV, but it's certainly a prevalent enough
| phenomenon to indicate that todo lists aren't enough for many
| people.
| kossTKR wrote:
| Interesting. Personally i think i also think it has to do
| with the nature of those services, it's just too simple in
| essence, the overhead gets obvious.
|
| People just revert to a simple piece of paper, a txt file, as
| i did until i for some reason started using the Reminders app
| in osx/ios - the first actual app that i have used for more
| than a year. Stupidly simple and a part of the system already
| so makes sense.
| _dain_ wrote:
| >I don't know anyone, like at all that doesn't have some kind
| of todo list, ranging from a simple unsorted list, to multiple
| lists to post it notes in your apartment.
|
| i don't use a todo list. i either remember to do something or i
| don't. i have tried to use todo lists before but they have
| never worked. i just forget to check it, or i just don't end up
| doing the things written on it.
| kossTKR wrote:
| But don't you use some physical system then? Setting a post-
| it, putting bills in a stack in sight, opening a tab and not
| closing it etc. to alert you of something?
|
| I mean i'm impressed if you can do everything stream-of-
| consciousness, but i also own both a company and have a
| family and could probably get away without lists when i was
| 22 without such distractions, but now i need to do at least
| 10+ things everyday, i can't remember all of that.
|
| I would love to simplify my life but it doesn't seem
| feasible..
| akprasad wrote:
| > The take presented in the first articles are a joke right?
|
| Yes, very much so. This is my first time writing for a large
| audience and I'm still learning how to balance the tone. My
| true views are at the bottom of the post and are aligned with
| yours.
| yodon wrote:
| >This is my first time writing for a large audience and I'm
| still learning how to balance the tone.
|
| You may want to read up on Poe's Law[0].
|
| [0]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law
| akprasad wrote:
| Thanks for the reminder. I thought the juxtaposition of
| those links with people like Leonardo da Vinci and Paul
| Graham would be enough to make the sarcasm clear. But alas.
| kossTKR wrote:
| I know, we agree i think your entire article including the
| first links just sparked the same feelings as they did in
| you. Good job honestly!
| megumax wrote:
| Nowadays, I keep my TODOs in the codebase, it's pretty easy to
| browse through code to find what isn't implemented yet, also it
| became really popular lately and a lot of plugins for better
| management appeared.
|
| For real life TODOs, I use a simple cli to keep them in a
| database that I share via Google Drive with my phone.
| codingdave wrote:
| I live most of my life via to do lists. I find it lets me put
| time into organizing my goals, then put the lists aside once I
| have a task to work on, and just focus on that task.
|
| But I don't think we are all the same, so it is somewhat silly to
| worry about what I do, or what blog posts people write about it.
| Try things out, see what works for yourself, and do that.
| aluminussoma wrote:
| Cal Newport and Shane Parrish, in a discussion on the Knowledge
| Project podcast, talked unfavorably about to-do lists. They
| favored scheduling time to perform the needed tasks in a daily
| calendar.
|
| I tried that calendaring system a few times. It did not work for
| me. To-do lists are easy, comfortable, familiar. They may not
| work for millionaires. They work for me.
| akprasad wrote:
| OP here. I agree, and I hope your take-away from my post is
| that extremely successful people _do_ use to-do lists. To quote
| myself, "People are different enough that there is no
| universal system." What works for you is what works for you,
| and you should use it unabashedly.
| luckyandroid wrote:
| Setting times is fine, but my approach is I have a list of 4-5
| things to do written the night before, and knowing how much
| time I have in the morning, midday and afternoon as well as the
| energy I still have left at different parts of the day I say
| whether they're done before work, at lunch, or after work.
|
| I'm really not sure on the distinction people are using between
| to-do lists and these other approaches - they all seem like to-
| do lists just formatted differently because people work
| differently.
| chansiky wrote:
| I've gotten a lot of productivity out of todo lists.
|
| I've tried Cal Newport's calendaring system as well, which is
| more or less a bullet journal + timeline and I thought it was
| somewhat helpful, but in the end it was too tedious.
|
| The thing that doesn't work for me is that If I don't finish
| something within a timeframe, its not worth context switching.
| Other times it made no sense to take on a task at a specific
| time.
|
| Sometimes its just better to have a simple list and wing the
| rest of it. Don't overcomplicate your life if you don't have
| to.
| powersnail wrote:
| Productivity discussions sometimes baffle me. It feels like some
| people expect a TODO list (or other productivity tools) to put
| magical motivations into their heads. When it doesn't, they
| declare it not useful.
|
| A TODO list is just a list. It mainly helps with two problems: 1)
| memory problem, 2) planning problem. It can also facilitate
| making measurements and analysis if that's your thing. But
| regardless of which app or pen and paper you use, it is not
| capable of making you want to work.
|
| Perhaps in the distant future, we'll have that magic bullets
| which instill literal productivity into your skull, but in 2022,
| your motivation is on you.
| luckyandroid wrote:
| "Get rid of your to-do list and instead choose one year goal,
| then break it down into monthly goals, then weekly goals, then
| daily goals"
|
| And what do you call that list you just wrote down, exactly?
| d1sxeyes wrote:
| OKRs. Obviously.
| rbonvall wrote:
| One single fractal to-do.
| richnftio wrote:
| I barely scratched the surface of what org mode can do, but tree
| structured todos were a game changer for me. When programming,
| researching a problem, being forced to go down a rabbit hole it
| helped me go as deep as necessary into a task without loosing
| track of what I actually want to achieve.
|
| I wish there was a great hierarchical todo manager for native
| Mac, with the capability to paste images. Right now I use
| taskpaper, which lacks image functions. I tried notion, but its
| editing capabilities are really slow.
| JesseMReeves wrote:
| The calendar-as-todo-list advice might be suitable for busy
| managers, but seems quite unsuitable for engineers, scientists
| and any kind of ,,makers" who can rarely tell how long solving a
| problem will take.
|
| Some reasons why can be found in Paul Grahams well-known essay
| ,,Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule". Another one is getting
| the various random demands occurring in life out of the head so
| that it is free for difficult things that require full attention.
|
| If you want to use calendars, the idea of the ,,unschedule" from
| ,,The Now Habit" might be more suitable for makers: Only put
| meetings, chores and actual freetime into your calendar so that
| it becomes obvious when there are blocks of time for focused
| work.
| INTPenis wrote:
| In the digital world one mistake I found myself doing a couple
| times was that I found a great new Todo list tool, started using
| it, and in my enthusiasm for the new tool and my potential future
| with it I added a bunch of useless todo items.
|
| And after a month or so it was disused. After a year I'd find it
| and feel slight shame.
|
| But this last iteration of todo list usage might be different,
| hopefully. It came during a stressful time. I am good at managing
| stress though so all I needed was a way to remember what people
| wanted from me. And that's where the todo list came in.
|
| So far so good, I'm 2 months in, the longest I've ever used a
| todo list.
| johndubchak wrote:
| +1 (I am Sisyphus!)
| marginalia_nu wrote:
| I find them situationally very useful. I'm very much an on-again-
| off-again todo:er, depending on what life throws my way. If I
| have enough ideas to require them I'll use them, if I don't then
| I don't. I don't spend a lot of time making sure they're in some
| sense perfect, it's just a tool, if it gets the job done it's
| fine. If there's too much junk, I'll delete some of it.
|
| If I'm inspired I may have many more ideas than I have time to
| realistically implement. Putting them in a todo list helps me let
| go of them until I have the time to put them into action.
|
| I also believe in separating thinking from doing, spending time
| away from my projects thinking seems to consistently produce
| solid new takes, but that is rarely the case if I'm actually at
| the keyboard working. I get too much tunnel vision and just spin
| my wheels.
|
| This in part also to allow me to be a present in my
| relationships, to work at work. If I had to juggle all my ideas
| in my head, I'd be aloof and incommunicable most of the time.
| crehn wrote:
| Every day before logging off from work, I write down my todos for
| the following work day on a blank piece of paper. I close my
| laptop, tuck the paper in a folder and put both in closet away
| from sight.
|
| Has worked really well getting things done and disconnecting from
| work.
| submeta wrote:
| (Todo)Lists are a very useful tool, when used effectively. They
| need to be accompanied by a list of principles though. Here are a
| few:
|
| - Review them regularly to keep them current. Pull out your lists
| whenever you have the time. Add new subtasks, check off done
| tasks, reorg lists if necessary. Keep your lists alive.
|
| - Focus on the most valuable tasks first. One hint for what is
| important: Do the tasks you avoid most.
|
| - Block chunks of time for uninterrupted work.
|
| - Don't try to do too many tasks on one day. Don't overschedule.
|
| It does not matter which tools you use. Emacs+Orgmode, Things3,
| OmniFocus (my fav), TaskPaper, etc. Just choose one tool and
| stick with it. Don't think the grass is greener on the other
| side. Don't switch systems constantly when your current system
| seems overwhelming. It will be overwhelming when you didn't keep
| it current. Just review and reorg your system regularly and keep
| it alive.
|
| Edit: Forgot the most important principle: Don't think that you
| can accomplish all the things that are on your lists. In life you
| are constantly forced to decide what to pick up and what to give
| up. Constant trade-offs. Never think that all the things on your
| lists _should_ be done either. The hardest part is to realize
| that on a meta level you can change structures that create tasks
| that shouldn't be done at all, at least not by you. This meta
| analysis is the hardest part. Looking at all the commitments you
| silently make, the roles you accepted silently now generating
| tons of work you shouldn't be doing.
| monsieurbanana wrote:
| > One hint for what is important: Do the tasks you avoid most
|
| There's a recently re-posted link to PG's Procrastination
| article[1], which argues against this:
|
| > That's the sense in which the most impressive people I know
| are all procrastinators. They're type-C procrastinators: they
| put off working on small stuff to work on big stuff.
|
| It all boils down as to why you avoid those tasks. Is it
| because you don't care about them, or because you dread their
| difficulty? If it's the former, maybe (it depends!) you can
| keep putting them off.
|
| [1] http://paulgraham.com/procrastination.html
| galangalalgol wrote:
| I've just been working on this with my add coach, the
| challenge is to be objective. I had some tasks pop up amd I
| wanted to take them on rather than work the thing I'd been
| putting off. But to work on the motivation for tasks I think
| about the payoffs for completion and why they are important
| and realized the thing I was putting off in this case
| (retrofitting a yucky code base with a slick mew interface,
| but not fixing any debt) was actually less important than the
| popup which had a short timeline and high visibility with a
| customer. So "do what you don't want to" doesn't always work,
| and there is no substitute for thinking it through.
| iamsanteri wrote:
| To-do lists are useful to an extent, but I've found making
| things time-bound to be the way to go. I wrote an article about
| this a couple of years back and I'm still using this approach
| with slight modifications along with a weekly planning session
| on Sundays: https://www.lostbookofsales.com/why-to-do-lists-
| often-stink-...
| wortelefant wrote:
| My current assortment of lists look like this:
|
| Job-check monthly
|
| Job-check weekly
|
| private-check monthly
|
| private-check weekly
|
| Monday / Tuesday / (...) (weekday lists)
|
| Monthly lists get checked at the beginning of the month, weekly
| lists at the beginning of the week. I move tasks to the
| individual days and delete or move items at the end of the day. I
| tried many systems so far, and I like to focus on a few things
| during the day. This is a system that currently works, but it
| will likely be replaced at some point.
|
| Team tasks are another matter, they live in shared tools at work.
| Keeping both systems in synch is often a challenge, and I need to
| restart it after a few days.
| 300bps wrote:
| Sounds like a habit tracker would be a good tool for this.
|
| I use Productive but I hesitate to recommend it because of how
| aggressively it tries to get you to convert to paid version.
| wortelefant wrote:
| not quite, the most important part of my todo list checking
| is manually moving items to the current days' list. This
| action is easily done in tick tick by drag and drop, but I
| feel like I have to do it manually, to create a memory
| impression strong enough that I remember the task as
| something important. The whole todo list 'system' is just an
| artefact of repeated actions that have a higher chance to
| create helpful memory paths.
| atomashpolskiy wrote:
| Great question! Todo lists are next to useless for me. For
| important stuff that I _have_ to do and must not forget about, I
| set up alarm clock (without description, as such stuff is in the
| back of my mind anyway). The rest is kept in text files,
| notebooks, napkins, etc., which I re-visit periodically or
| remember about spontaneously.
| d_burfoot wrote:
| The problem with typical TODO lists is common to many
| productivity apps: one size does not fit all. People with
| different interests, lifestyles, job functions, and
| organizational constraints will need radically different
| workflows and software to support those workflows.
|
| For example, in my day job at a big tech company, I am often
| blocked from doing some TODO item because I'm waiting for someone
| else to do something (code review, ACL approval, respond to
| support ticket, etc). So I don't want my TODO app to show me
| items that are currently blocked. This constraint in my workflow
| is mostly just an artifact of the way big tech companies operate,
| not a universal feature of work. Other professionals doubtless
| face other constraints.
|
| I have a theory that the solution to this problem is for
| professionals (not just software engineers!) to write their own
| productivity apps. With a good framework, it is easy to write
| quite useful mini-apps that reflect your specific needs - think a
| spreadsheet, but with much nicer, custom user interface. I built
| such a framework for my own needs, and I am slowly rolling it out
| to the world, check it out if you're interested:
| https://webwidgets.io/
| coding123 wrote:
| I need to get back into them.
|
| I am most productive when I start the day looking at yesterday's
| list and re-organizing it. By the end if I don't get too
| distracted I end up being more productive...
| 2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote:
| Ben Franklin. Also myself.
| ziftface wrote:
| I think it's safe to ignore any advice that sounds like
| "successful people do/don't do ..."
|
| Advice like that will always contradict itself since successful
| people are not all the same.
| dillondoyle wrote:
| Me. But they get way too long. Not enough hours to get through
| them all. So it's more like an attempt to prioritize.
| slickdork wrote:
| I use a 5-3-1 todo strategy every day: 5 easy things, 3 medium
| things, 1 hard thing. I didn't invent it, but it works well for
| me.
|
| Anything that didn't get done the day before gets escalated a
| category the next day. That thing I though of being as medium
| todo but didn't get done? It's obviously belonging in the
| 'hard' category.
|
| One of my easy tasks is always 'make tomorrows list'. So, it's
| a perpetual motion machine.
| dillondoyle wrote:
| I like that system.
| flamesofphx wrote:
| I find them to be magic little time capsules, for when I write
| them and then find them six months to a year latter, they let me
| know what I have not gotten done yet...
| nurbl wrote:
| Or, perhaps they remind you of what didn't need to be done
| after all...
| DarylZero wrote:
| When I write stuff down on to-do lists I never forget things on
| the list. I don't look at the list and check them off after I do
| them. It doesn't help me get anything done. The items I don't do
| are memorized on the phone and in my mind, and I still don't do
| them.
|
| I guess I keep putting stuff in the to-do list on the fear I
| might forget to do something important, but probably I wouldn't
| check the to-do list enough to prevent that anyway.
|
| I think the to-do list is probably best if you model yourself as
| the slave of its author, and you dutifully obey your master.
| Where the to-do list represents some kind of self-mastery,
| executive function, command of present self from past. Also
| liberates you from decision-making in the present.
|
| I don't have that attitude toward to-do lists at all.
| yanbianhobo wrote:
| One thing I've found necessary about a todo list is to have it
| synced to the phone (which I'll have with me nearly always, as
| opposed to the laptop), so I can quickly note down a thought that
| I might otherwise forget by the time I open the laptop next.
| Other than that, a simple checklist has proved the most useful
| setup. I've tried fancier tools like Trello, Todoist, Evernote
| but none of them took. I keep my checklist sorted roughly in
| order of urgency, and always refer to it when trying to decide
| what to do next.
| atum47 wrote:
| I have a todo app that I wrote myself, every month I add things
| that I need to pay and other stuff that I need to do. I used to
| pay the bills all in advance, but here in Brazil leave money in
| some Fintech apps are giving quite the interest, so I hold on to
| the money until the day I have to pay the bill. The app has been
| very helpful so far...
| Apocryphon wrote:
| Feels like what there needs to be is a meta-system to evaluate
| different productivity methods for X amount of weeks each and
| then compare their effectiveness. Knowing such a framework would
| be more useful than individual techniques, of which there are
| countless.
| ineedasername wrote:
| You need to keep track things _somehow_. And I can 't think of a
| single piece of software or other elaborate method of project
| management that doesn't essentially boil down to "Thing X needs
| to get done"
|
| I use todoist:
|
| -About 60% are a bunch of ideas, a sort of wish list, that I
| occasionally read through to keep them in mind and in case
| something I thought of a while back is now much more relevant.
|
| -At least 20% of what's on there are higher value projects I
| should work on when I have time.
|
| -The last 20% are a regular stream of tasks coming in and out.
| When none of them are due "right now" then I work on something
| form the previous 20% (where values of "right now" are in the 2-3
| days range and I'm absolutely certain that the soonest needed
| tasks will not take longer than that.
|
| And then sometimes when I just need a break from normal work I
| will take a day or two & find something from the 60% to work on.
|
| This also serves as a worklog so I can easily track what I've
| done-- especially useful for performance evaluations.
| steve_adams_86 wrote:
| I am completely dysfunctional without todo lists and a daily
| reflection and revisiting of priorities.
|
| I will constantly find other things to do I would prefer to do in
| the moment, but will ultimately lead to important things being
| neglected for days or years.
| brightball wrote:
| I do. Sticky notes + ClickUp.
| astaunton wrote:
| I have worked in several organisations where I have needed to be
| dynamic, dropping some tasks I am currently working on to take up
| something that is more business critical. I create a task list to
| keep track of anything that needs to be done, some tasks may have
| several sub-tasks. I add notes for each task, to remind myself of
| where I was in each task before I leave it to move on to
| something else (or before I forget). As each task or sub-task
| gets it gets set as finished removed / a strike through (depends
| on the tool being used for the list).
|
| The list is only to remind me of what needs to be done, I will
| often change the order of the list depending on the changing
| priorities of the business I am working in. I found I need a list
| as trying to juggle all the tasks in my queue became too
| difficult and often would require some time to rediscover where I
| had finished off on a task before I was asked to change to
| something of higher priority (e.g. migrating a machine to a
| different version on Linux where a predecessor has not documented
| the build, compared to an outage on a service in production
| (sometimes diagnosing an issue in an outage generates tasks to be
| done on other machines to prevent future issues, the notes will
| record the relevant commands etc that will need to be run when
| performing that task).
|
| I will add that I would not live my life based on the the task
| list, it is merly a tool to aid me as my brain gets focused on
| other things :D
| low_tech_love wrote:
| Knuth's advice is especially good. If there is something in my
| todo list that I hate, it's probably because (a) it's hard, (b)
| it will take some time to do, and (c) it's very important (or
| else it wouldn't be there). Mustering the courage to do them
| early rather than late is an almost certain recipe for
| satisfaction and a good, relaxing weekend. One other thing about
| todo lists that I like is fitting things into the available time
| frame. I often open my todo list and think "ok, I have 30
| minutes, what can I tick off". It's quite good for my mental
| health (when I actually do it).
| amelius wrote:
| He wrote an entire text processing system as a way of
| procrastination, though.
| saaaaaam wrote:
| I use ClickUp as an overarching todo list combined with various
| automations based on email which I can trigger by applying
| specific labels or which are automatically triggered by filters
| and picked up by integromat.
|
| This then either delegates tasks to my assistant or team;
| triggers onward automations to carry out important but repetitive
| tasks; or adds them to my own list - the latter often being
| "thing about this" rather than "do this". I've also setup Otter
| to save things to my Dropbox so that I can dictate things into my
| todo list.
|
| For example the tag "investigate" can be triggered with a
| keystroke on my email and copies the email into a particular list
| and assigns it to my assistant. When the task is "accepted" that
| applies a template that then sets a due date and pushes it into
| our weekly one on one agenda. "Action required" pushes it into my
| task list and sets a high priority flag.
|
| Emails with attachments that hit a particular filter (e.g.
| regularly occurring reports that I receive by email) are
| labelled, the attachment is extracted and saved to a folder in
| Google drive where it is picked up and emailed to a kindle I use
| specifically for reading work documents, and a ClickUp task is
| created that prompts me to read it within X days then and write
| myself a brief summary as an aide memoire, but which is also
| available to my team where necessary so that the key points I
| consider important are crystallised, either for further action or
| just to build the bigger picture.
|
| I've gradually managed to slim the bulk of my work admin down to
| email, ClickUp and calendar which frees up a huge amount of time
| - and more importantly removes the crippling stress of feeling
| like I've forgotten something.
|
| I have severe ADHD so if I don't use lists I forget things. And
| when I get stressed about maybe having forgotten something my
| creativity and higher focus evaporates.
|
| Super-powered todo lists are my secret weapon and have changed
| the way I work in an incredible way.
| amiircoal wrote:
| I'm the only one on my team that uses a todo manager religiously.
| I am also the most productive on my team.
|
| I consider my todo manager my superpower. It powers my life.
|
| And while I advocate using a good todo manager, I've learnt that
| they are not for everyone.
|
| Everyone has their own working styles.
|
| My recommendation for people is be open to experimenting with new
| ways to work.
|
| If you have always used a calendar as your primary way to
| schedule your work or only a paper notebook, experiment for 15
| days with another method.
|
| If your todo manager isn't working for you, experiment with
| another software or even try a paper notebook.
|
| Investing a bit of time into alternative organizational methods
| can have a very positive impact on your productivity as well as
| happiness.
| erwincoumans wrote:
| It is on my todo to create a todo list.
|
| My father once went to the book store, to buy an agenda to write
| down things he forgot. When he came home, turns out he left the
| agenda at the bookstore :)
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