[HN Gopher] Deta Cloud - Developer-friendly cloud platform
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Deta Cloud - Developer-friendly cloud platform
Author : Gedxx
Score : 91 points
Date : 2022-01-14 12:55 UTC (10 hours ago)
(HTM) web link (www.deta.sh)
(TXT) w3m dump (www.deta.sh)
| NmAmDa wrote:
| What's the catch?
| maxmcd wrote:
| There's info on VM limitations here:
| https://docs.deta.sh/docs/micros/about#important-notes
|
| Super excited about this space, but not sure how another player
| is going to make firecracker/docker/gvisor/whatever based VMs
| cheaper/free-er than big cloud providers. Would be nice to see
| more attempts at alternate runtimes like WASM/V8/etc
| abdelhai wrote:
| It's an exciting Space in its infancy (IMO). We will be
| looking into WASM soon!
| abdelhai wrote:
| Deta Cloud (deta.sh) is a playground for independent devs, it's
| not a full-fledged cloud platform. For production scale and
| monetization, we're working on Deta Space:
| https://www.deta.sh/space & https://deta.space/
|
| ceo here btw
| NmAmDa wrote:
| So what are the limitations for individual developers? Is the
| network throttled somehow? Or there is limited life time of
| application to prevent usage for production (for small
| projects anyway)?.
|
| It seems like there should be more information and a clear
| explanation of the business model.
| abdelhai wrote:
| We're working on this atm and will be sharing soon. Have
| been running for a while without official limits with very
| little issues. (99% of our devs don't reach our planned
| limits).
| crispypotatoes wrote:
| Absolutely, while I'm very grateful for free services I can
| sometimes wind up avoiding using them because I'm concerned
| about my privacy or the longevity of a setup
|
| I'd rather pay a modest subscription fee than have the rug
| suddenly pulled from under me due to funding issues
| abdelhai wrote:
| That's a valid concern. We're well funded, so you don't
| have to worry for a few years. The way we will monetize
| is through Deta Space. Deta Space helps devs scale &
| monetize their apps without ops and we take a small cut.
|
| check out https://www.deta.sh/space & https://deta.space/
| wg0 wrote:
| "We'll take cut."
|
| How that will work? If someone is using display advertising, how
| the cut can be calculated? Or do you force to have your script
| included in header that delegates such requests?
|
| Further, someone taking PayPal or other payment processing, will
| you be hooking yourself in middle by having your own SDK for
| monitization I suppose?
|
| Might work or might not, basically the apps that make significant
| amount of money don't won't to give away 5% of their revenue.
|
| Imagine an app making one million USD a month would end up paying
| 50,000 USD as cut. But pretty sure, if they host it themselves,
| the bill would be far below something like 5000 USD or so.
| Equation becomes obvious and they would tend to migrate.
| abdelhai wrote:
| Apps published on Deta Space will use our own payment solution;
| we will process the payment and send the dev their cut. For
| now, Ad-supported apps will not be published on Space. Space
| apps are reviewed manually.
|
| We will offer either a simple purchase/subscription mechanism &
| our own SDK (for more complex use cases).
|
| Offering a 0-ops & 0-liability experience for any dev globally
| is pretty attractive. There's more to this that I cant talk
| about yet unfortunately.
| mushufasa wrote:
| Cloud and developer setups are super sticky. If they have
| technical lock-in, then that switching cost is not just server
| vs revshare, but server + devops team + time spinning wheels on
| infra not focused on product + unknown glitches of a new
| environment vs revshare.
|
| Essentially, the same business model as heroku -- free and
| affordable to start, but $$$$ at a medium scale. It will work
| until the business becomes an enterprise, which it seems Deta
| Cloud is adamant about not serving.
| [deleted]
| jpthurman wrote:
| Having lived a similar path (Uffizzi was initially a Heroku-like
| PaaS before we pivoted) I'll offer some lessons learned that I
| wish I could have had a crystal ball to see. -First I'll
| reference Peter Thiel's 10x rule - is your product or experience
| much, much better than the alternatives? -The market is pretty
| saturated with free and low cost options for hosting. Heroku
| being the 1st and most ubiquitous and then Digital Ocean
| launching their PaaS in 2020. I'm sure there's others. I'll
| concede that Render seems to have gotten some traction despite
| some significant odds against doing so. -We got $100k in credits
| from GCP -You'll likely have trouble attracting serious start-ups
| or businesses because they will worry that you won't be here in 1
| year or even 3 years. If you don't attract businesses you'll have
| a hard time getting to monetization.
|
| Your monetization plan is unique and I love anything that
| simplifies the Dev experience. Best of luck to you.
| yawnxyz wrote:
| wow I love how simple it seems to do database and file storage...
| definitely taking a look this weekend!
| ithkuil wrote:
| love the UI/UX, very snappy and simple; good work!
| tosh wrote:
| I host https://applesilicongames.com on deta, deploys are almost
| instant, for similar apps I used firebase in the past but I
| prefer python to javascript
| sharemywin wrote:
| How does it pay it's bills?
| Gedxx wrote:
| I don't Know
| abdelhai wrote:
| We will make money via Deta Space which helps devs scale &
| monetize their apps without ops and we take a small cut.
|
| https://www.deta.sh/space & https://deta.space/
| abdelhai wrote:
| We will make money via Deta Space (WIP) which helps devs scale
| & monetize their apps without ops and we take a small cut.
|
| https://www.deta.sh/space & https://deta.space/
| darrenf wrote:
| > _How are you going to make money?_
|
| > _We 're working on a big, parallel product that we will be
| announcing soon. This product will be responsible for
| generating revenue. Stay tuned!_
|
| From https://docs.deta.sh/docs/home/
| tobilg wrote:
| I bet this will be web3 / crypto / etc.
| abdelhai wrote:
| We're a crypto-free company. We will make money via Deta
| Space which helps devs scale & monetize their apps without
| ops and we take a small cut.
|
| https://www.deta.sh/space & https://deta.space/
| bogota wrote:
| What do you take a small cut of? You keep saying this but
| it doesn't seem to make sense to anyone in this thread.
| tobilg wrote:
| Honestly, I don't get the messaging. What is Deta Space
| from your pov?
| voidmain0001 wrote:
| Description by author: https://www.producthunt.com/posts/deta-
| cloud-1-0
|
| It provides a marketplace so perhaps Deta plan to take a cut of
| sales: https://deta.space/
| vasili111 wrote:
| First that comes to mind is selling user info. But this is only
| my thoughts.
| abdelhai wrote:
| We don't sell any data. We will make money via Deta Space
| which helps devs scale & monetize their apps without ops and
| we take a small cut.
|
| https://www.deta.sh/space & https://deta.space/
| vasili111 wrote:
| Great! Thank you for clarification.
| [deleted]
| panta wrote:
| Most of the docs mention Python and Node.js micro-frameworks, but
| the Deta Base SDK has example code also for Go. Is it possible to
| deploy (self-contained) binaries compiled from Go on Deta? On
| Deta Space?
| abdelhai wrote:
| We don't support Go on Micros yet. Not enough demand atm but we
| love Go and plan to support it once we have the capacity.
| wisermonkey wrote:
| Have used it for a small work project. I love the simplicity. I
| haven't found a cloud provider that has this limited
| scope/battery included feel.
|
| I love services like digital Ocean. But everything is designed to
| deploy and scale "the right way". For projects with small scope
| this really fits the bill.
|
| Improvement: add something like nodemon -e "deta deploy" I end up
| reruning that command alot.
|
| Something like "deta -w ./my-awesome-project"
|
| The comments remind me of the inflection point with any
| opensource/ startup company dev: "great product, id love to use
| it, but can I trust it?"
|
| Aside: this reminds me of anvil.app but different. This has that
| same omg it comes with a sql db editor interface (not very fancy
| but it works)
| abdelhai wrote:
| Awesome, thanks for sharing! You are looking for "deta watch"
| ;)
| hankchinaski wrote:
| there is no pricing info and difficult to understand the business
| model if not by reading through the comments on here.
| joshstrange wrote:
| This looks neat and all but Delta Space (the "production" version
| of this) has zero pricing info that I can find and I've scoured
| their site and docs, even tried going to /pricing, /plans, etc
| nothing.
|
| In the comments the CEO keeps talking about "we're working on
| Deta Space, which helps devs publish & monetize their web apps
| with no ops, and we take a small cut" but it's not clear at all
| what that "small cut" is and if it comes from payment processing
| or some other fee.
|
| Can we please get some info on pricing for Space?
| abdelhai wrote:
| Hi, Deta Space is very new and a lot is still is happening
| behind the scenes. We're mostly running a closed alpha with
| some devs from our community. Once we launch Space in beta/GA,
| we will be announcing more about "the cut". It's likely to be
| <15% (no infra cost, etc).
|
| I understand this is all vague atm but everything is still WIP.
| We're not ready for prime-time yet.
|
| (btw, this is not a "show hn", a kind person thought to share
| us here)
| marbu wrote:
| Deltacloud[1][2] was a library which abstracted differences of
| various cloud provider APIs, maintained from 2009 till about
| 2015. Btw I you need something like that today, there is
| libcloud[3], which is actively maintained library with a similar
| goal.
|
| [1] https://deltacloud.apache.org/ [2]
| https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deltacloud [3]
| https://libcloud.readthedocs.io/
| lolinder wrote:
| Every single product launch on HN has someone pointing out some
| sort of naming collision. It gets old.
|
| This product is named Deta Cloud, not Delta Cloud, and in
| addition to that Apache Deltacloud is retired. Today's
| namespace is so crowded that all posts like this have convinced
| me of is that it's impossible _not_ to collide with something.
| marbu wrote:
| Ah, you are right, I'm misreading the name. Sorry for
| confusion.
| lijogdfljk wrote:
| Hah, it wasn't until your comment did i realize the product
| was Deta cloud. I was reading Delta Cloud lol.
| abdelhai wrote:
| https://youtu.be/nqwx2XFb1fQ
| debarshri wrote:
| The market is actually pretty small for super focussed with PaaS
| with a specialized business model. Trust me, been there, done
| that. You have to not only communicate why your PaaS is better
| than others out there in the market but Also de-mystify why they
| should adopt your pricing model too.
|
| My argument is that most of the small business and startups
| struggle to make revenue from get go. Asking for revshare, when
| it is day-0/day-1 kind of situation can hit the startups, small
| business, individuals really hard.
|
| To me the your model looks very close to a royalty structure.
| Which I do not think many orgs and serious startups would like.
|
| Another argument is that, Major cloud providers give away a lot
| of credits for various services. It can go upto $100k. I would
| even argue that you don't need devops or specialized team from
| you are a small org, startup and your operations are small.
|
| Anyways, Looks like a fun project. I actually think the Micro,
| Base and Drive looks very promising and I wouldn't mind paying
| based on usage. I think, It can be a fun place to host apps for
| indie hackers. Would love to list Deta Cloud on Awesome Paas[1]
| list.
|
| [1] https://github.com/debarshibasak/awesome-paas
| dottedmag wrote:
| > You agree that Abstract Computing UG (haftungsbeschrankt), in
| its sole discretion, may use your trade names, trademarks,
| service marks, logos, domain names and other distinctive brand
| features in presentations, marketing materials, customer lists,
| financial reports and Web site listings (including links to your
| website) for the purpose of advertising or publicizing your use
| of the Deta Services.
| lawrencevillain wrote:
| This is pretty common in a lot of ToS, if you use their stuff
| (especially for free) they want to be able to use you on their
| nascar page of logos, or in their pitch decks. I don't really
| see what's wrong with that?
| abdelhai wrote:
| This is for our "app marketplace" (WIP) which we use to promote
| the apps themselves. We also say look at these cool apps
| running on Deta.
|
| More about our "marketplace": https://deta.space/ &
| https://www.deta.sh/space
| greatjack613 wrote:
| There is no free lunch, I would assume the plan is to either
| first take over the market and then introduce pro plans and make
| the free plans have usage limits due to "abuse".
|
| Or the plan is to sell user data or something shady like that.
|
| There is no way a company can offer a free unlimited cloud
| service, it is to ripe for abuse.
| nullspace wrote:
| > I would assume the plan is to either first take over the
| market
|
| Step 1: Introduce free product
|
| Step 2: ???
|
| Step 3: Take over market
|
| In their docs, they have mentioned they plan to monetize
| through a parallel product: https://docs.deta.sh/docs/home/
| abdelhai wrote:
| Yes, Deta Space (WIP) is the way we will make money. We help
| devs monetize their apps and we take a small cut.
| abdelhai wrote:
| Deta Cloud (deta.sh) is a playground for independent devs, it's
| not a full-fledged cloud platform. For production scale and
| monetization, we're working on Deta Space:
| https://www.deta.sh/space & https://deta.space/
|
| Deta Space is the way we will make money. We help devs monetize
| their apps and we take a small cut.
|
| Space is still WIP and we will be announcing more soon. We
| don't sell data.
|
| ceo here btw
| abdelhai wrote:
| Hey HN, Deta CEO here. Glad to see Deta on HN! Hapy to answer any
| question (although a bit sick today, so apology for the short and
| duplicated answers).
|
| Because many of you are wondering about our business model: we're
| working on Deta Space, which helps devs publish & monetize their
| web apps with no ops, and we take a small cut. Deta Space is
| still in the early pilot stage.
|
| Learn more about Space here: https://www.deta.sh/space & here
| https://deta.space/.
|
| Have a great day!
| Rygian wrote:
| The front page says "Unlimited storage" for the NoSQL solution;
| yet the terms mention a hard limit of 10 GB. Is there a typo?
| abdelhai wrote:
| That's for "file storage", aka Deta Drive. Deta Base, our
| NoSQL doesn't have a limit.
| Rygian wrote:
| How credible is this, in the long term? Can i use it to
| build the next Dropbox with unlimited file storage and give
| it away for free to my users?
| Blanko wrote:
| I think you've got it backwards. File storage is free up
| to 10GB, NoSQL is free forever
| breakingcups wrote:
| Their point is they could store the files in the NoSQL
| solution if they so please.
| danrl wrote:
| I'm curios: If you have funding that gives you multiple years
| of runway (as stated earlier ITT), why didn't you raise the
| contribution to EUR 25k and turn the UG (Haftungsbeschrankt)
| into a fully limited liability company (GmbH)? Wouldn't that be
| one of the first moves when funding is in, to give the founders
| peace of mind regarding personal liability concerns?
| abdelhai wrote:
| There's more to this than one would think :)
| rad_gruchalski wrote:
| What kind of concerns are you talking about here?
|
| UG is like GmbH with a difference that, afair, 25% or 30% of
| the profit has to be put aside towards GmbH conversion. Also,
| you'd do the conversion typically at the end of fiscal year.
|
| For investors putting serious money in, what's the difference
| if they can recover EUR5k or EUR25k? Stammkapital is the
| maximum liability for both UG and GmbH.
| qqqturing1 wrote:
| GmbH looks more serious though
| rad_gruchalski wrote:
| Both are the same from the legal point of view. UG
| eventually ends up as GmbH, if company makes profit.
| wyuenho wrote:
| What do you think you can do to succeed where Meteor failed?
| abdelhai wrote:
| I remember Meteor as a framework first. Deta is a platform
| and allows devs to build apps using their favorite frameworks
| (mostly) and then deploy & monetize them without any ops.
|
| I trust you heard "no ops" before but Deta uses a new
| approach that allows us to scale millions of apps to billions
| of users efficiently. Take a look at our pilot here:
| https://deta.space/
| depingus wrote:
| In the docs I see Go SDKs for Base and Drive, but doesn't look
| like deta-cli supports Go for Micros. Can we write services in
| Go?
| abdelhai wrote:
| We don't support Go on Micros yet. Not enough demand atm but
| we love Go and planning to support it once we have the
| capacity.
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